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NANCY GRACE
Van Der Sloot Confession Transcript Released
Aired June 14, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police refuse to make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot even after he describes Natalee`s death repeatedly, even admitting he hid the body, never to be found.
Tonight, live, Peru. Van Der Sloot kills again. Another young girl, just 21, meets Van Der Sloot at a resort casino, found dead just hours later, brutally beaten, bloody, her neck cracked, broken, partially clothed on the floor of Van Der Sloot`s hotel room. Van Der Sloot goes on the run to Chile, dyeing his hair to hide out. After a massive manhunt, Van Der Sloot captured, so reviled, he`s strapped in a bulletproof vest to protect him.
As we obtain spine-chilling video of Van Der Sloot with 21-year-old Stephany Tatiana just before she`s found dead, bloody clothes from the murder found with Van Der Sloot on the run, U.S. feds busting Van Der Sloot on a quarter-million-dollar scam to sell the location of Natalee`s body, killing machine Van Der Sloot confesses to the murder of Stephany and divulges motive, that Stephany discovers he killed Natalee.
We obtain casino video of Van Der Sloot and Stephany meeting, talking, playing cards, leaving together. We learn after beating her to a pulp and breaking her neck, Van Der Sloot kicks back with a cup of coffee and Danish just feet from Stephany`s dead body on the floor.
Bombshell tonight. We obtain Van Der Sloot`s confession verbatim, Van Der Sloot on video. He recounts the murder moment by moment, how he steals her money and goes on the run. But from where I sit, it is B.S.! It is an air-brushed version full of lies.
Tonight, Van Der Sloot in isolation in a Peruvian jailhouse, angling for a free trip home to Aruba in exchange for the location of the body of Natalee Holloway. But what about the dead Peruvian girl and two other girls missing from casinos in Bogota possibly linked to Van Der Sloot? What, they`re going to let him go home to Aruba for a home-cooked meal and a get out of jail free card? No!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "On May 30th at 2:00 o`clock, I was playing poker at a table with several people. Stephany Flores came by and started to play."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... very dramatic confession.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a confession...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "When we arrived at the hotel, we arrived at my room and played poker on my laptop. At that moment, I opened my e-mail and saw a message that said, I`m going to kill you, mongoloid, referring to the Holloway case."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... graphic testimony about the death of Stephany Flores Ramirez...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "At that time, I spoke with Stephany, telling her about the case five years ago where I was detained and I was a suspect in the disappearance of this girl. After being in the room for half an hour, at that moment, I was telling her about it, she hit my head on the left side with her fist."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He became enraged, started hitting her, attacking her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "At that moment, impulsively, with right elbow, I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose. There was blood everywhere. I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mattress on the bed was totally off its box spring.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed. So I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is now a first degree murder case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I said to the taxi driver, I committed a homicide. I killed a person and I want to get out of Peru."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. We obtain Van Der Sloot`s confession verbatim, Van Der Sloot on video. He recounts the murder moment by moment, how he steals Stephany`s money and goes on the run. But from where I sit, it`s total B.S. It is not the truth. It is an air-brushed version of murder, and it is full lies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Do you know why you are being detained?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I`ve been told it`s because of the homicide of Stephany Flores."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a very dramatic confession here in Lima, Peru...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I only hit her once on top of the nose with my right elbow."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot is a confessed killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "She was on the bed when I hit her with the right elbow with force, and I think her head went backwards and hit the wall. Then she started bleeding. And immediately, I got on top of her and with both hands, I started to strangle her, keeping her like that for a minute."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... intense, 10-hour-long interrogation...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Then I threw her to the floor, but she was still breathing. So I took the shirt I was still wearing and put it on her face, pressing. Can`t remember how much time, but she stopped breathing and I think that`s how I killed her."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... broke down in tears when he made the dramatic confession to Peruvian authorities...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I used the comforter and the sheets to clean the blood from the floor of the room. I only cleaned the floor. After killing her, I took the cards and the money."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... what police are pointing to as a possible motive. They think Van Der Sloot allegedly killed Flores to steal her gambling winnings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "What was the real reason why you victimized Stephany?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I don`t know. But at that moment, Stephany hit me in the head. I lost control of my actions. I didn`t know what I was doing. I remember what I was doing, but not the motive. It was an impulsive act after I received the hit in the head."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`re taking your calls live. Now live to Lima, Peru. Standing by, Jean Casarez. She is legal correspondent with "In Session." Jean, I`ve gone through the confession, OK? It`s complete B.S. And what about all this angling about trying to get home to Aruba? What, so they can lose the key to the jail so he can run free? I wouldn`t send him home. Under no conditions is he to go home to Aruba!
But back on point, Jean. Break down the confession, and then we`ll play some for you.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": "I thought about what I was doing. What am I going to do now?" Those are the words of Joran Van Der Sloot, he said, during the time that he was killing Stephany Flores. He says they were playing poker at the casino and she wanted to play on-line poker, so they were deciding whether to go to where she lived or to his hotel room. They ended up in his hotel room.
He said that he got an e-mail on FaceBook. And remember, these are the early morning hours of the five-year anniversary of Natalee Holloway. Someone said, I`m going to kill you, mongoloid. He said that started an argument. She hit him, he says, on his left temple. But he said she was on the bed and he took her throat with both hands and started squeezing. He then threw her on the floor. He said that she wasn`t dead, and so he took his shirt and asphyxiated her.
He said there was no struggle at all. But Nancy, we got the crime scene report last week. The injuries to the body of Stephany Flores were immense.
GRACE: Jean, he is conveniently leaving out every fact that portrays him like an animal out in the jungle that kills. He`s leaving out, how did she get a broken neck? How did her eye come out of the socket to just dangle there? What else does he say, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Well, he talks about that after he killed her, that he took her clothes off from the waist down. He doesn`t know why he did it, but he remembers he did it after it all happened. He said he took the sheets off the bed and cleaned the floor up. That`s all he did was clean the floor. He had a fleeting thought to take the body and take it somewhere, undisclosed location, but that was just a fleeting thought.
But he knew he had to flee. He knew he had to leave. He admits that he took her money, her credit cards, her identification, her car. But he also says, During the midst of this, I realized she could go to authorities and she could tell them what I had done, the assault that I had given her. So he continued.
Nancy, in American law, that`s called elimination of a witness so you don`t have a live witness that can go to authorities and tell them that you have committed a crime.
GRACE: Jean, when you read on into the confession, he also says that he took her bluejeans -- took her clothes off of her postmortem, after she`s dead. That doesn`t make any sense. Then he says he took off for Chile, but he wasn`t really on the run, he wasn`t really running. Then he says he didn`t know why he was running. Then he says that he surrendered to police. That is all a lie.
Everybody, we`re taking your calls. Jean is taking your calls there in Lima. I want to find out, Jean, also, about his conditions tonight. He`s in solitary. But first let`s take a listen to Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession verbatim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Did you use an object to commit the homicide?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "No."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "What part of her face and body did you hit?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I only hit her once on top of the nose with my right elbow."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The racket brand is Prince, was found at the scene of the crime. Was it used to victimize Stephany?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "No."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The beige shirt that was found with bloodstains is the same one that you were wearing on May 30th and was used to asphyxiate Stephany?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Yes. It was the same one I was wearing on May 30th, 2010, at the Atlantic City casino and with which I arrived at Hotel Tac, and the same one I used to asphyxiate Stephany until I killed her."
"She was on the bed when I hit her with the right elbow with force, and I think her head went backwards and hit the wall. Then she started bleeding. And immediately, I got on top of her, and with both hands I started to strangle her, keeping her like that for a minute. Then I threw her to the floor, but she was still breathing. So I took the shirt I was still wearing and put it on her face, pressing. Can`t remember how much time, but she stopped breathing. And I think that`s how I killed her."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Liz, if you can -- I want you to pull up that video of Van Der Sloot -- there he is. Put it in full, the video on the bottom. Look at him, like he really thinks somebody`s going to come to the door? He`s, like, Knock, knock. He knows nobody`s coming -- OK, look. If I couldn`t get into the door, I would be bamming on it. Somebody come to the door. He`s not even -- everything about him is a lie!
I want to go to Michael Griffith. Do we have Griffith on the phone, please? Michael Griffith, I`m very disturbed. I thought the prison he would be in is a hellhole. But now I find out that he has access to TV. He`s in a room by himself. And not only that, Michael Griffith, they don`t want the prisoners to wear prison garb because they think it denigrates the individual? Hello? They teach them ceramics and literature? What is this, a country club?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL ATTORNEY (via telephone): Nancy, no. Miguel Castro Castro is similar to Lurigancho. It`s a terrible prison. He`s only in protective custody for the moment. In this prison...
GRACE: Culinary arts, ceramics, artwork, bakery?
GRIFFITH: Nancy Grace, listen. In this prison, 500 prisoners, including 135 women, brought a lawsuit against the prison which was upheld by the international court -- the inter-American court. In fact, on the first day that a warden was working there, the warden got murdered. Once he gets into population, he`s got a problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot broke down in tears when he made the confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says Flores found something on his laptop tying him to Natalee Holloway`s disappearance. Then, cops say, he went into a rage and beat her to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Did you think about hiding the body?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I thought about it for a moment, but I couldn`t stay anymore in the scene. There was too much blood in the room."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... graphic new details...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a confession in a high-profile killing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot told investigators he was in Peru for a poker tournament, that he`d met Stephany Flores while he was gambling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Joran Van Der Sloot`s murder confession...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said when they were at the casino that she wanted to go play on-line poker. They decided his hotel room, so they went there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In transcripts released by Peruvian police...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "When we arrived at the hotel, we arrived at my room and played poker on my laptop. At that moment, I opened my e-mail and saw a message that said, I`m going to kill you, mongoloid, referring to the Holloway case."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He gave them a detailed account of how he killed Stephany Flores Ramirez and why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot says he elbowed Stephany Flores in the face...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Stephany Flores...
GRACE: ... brutally beaten...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose. There was blood everywhere. I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... suffocating her with his own shirt...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This occurred five years to the day after Natalee Holloway disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, I murdered Stephany Flores, and all I wanted to do was get out of Lima. I wanted to flee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Jean Casarez, standing by in Lima, Peru. Jean, you`ve been to the jail. Describe.
CASAREZ: Castro Castro is one of the highest-security prisons in Peru. Very violent felons are there. They have almost 1,600 inmates right now, but only about 350 have gone to trial. And the wings are separated as to how violent your alleged crime or crime was. Joran Van Der Sloot in a very exclusive wing right now because prison officials tell us, We know his life is in our hands. Nancy, they don`t want anything to happen to him. But he`s adjacent to an alleged Colombian hit man. We understand they`re talking and they watch television together.
GRACE: To our Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story. Ellie, is it true he is angling right now to try to get home to Aruba? And what`s his con?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, in this alleged confession, we hear that he says that he would like to help bring some sort of closure, conclusion to the Natalee Holloway case.
GRACE: You mean other than trying to rip off Beth Holloway for a quarter of a million dollars...
JOSTAD: Right. Right.
GRACE: ... in exchange for her body?
JOSTAD: And by the way, he doesn`t admit where that money came from that he was found with when he was arrested. But going back to the confession, in that he says that he would like to talk to the Aruban authorities and tell them what he knows. He says, I don`t want to do it right now, but I would like to bring closure to the case.
Now we`re hearing reports that what he`s trying to do is give up that location of Natalee Holloway`s body in exchange for extradition back to Aruba.
GRACE: You are seeing -- were seeing shots of Joran Van Der Sloot in police custody. Check out that red hair -- trying to elude police.
We are taking your calls. To Lawanda in Alabama. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I want to know -- I know his daddy taught him well. However, if his confession is convoluted, won`t the forensic evidence tie this maniac to this horrific murder? And are they...
GRACE: Lawanda -- OK, no, go ahead with your second question, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And are they allowing him to mastermind his own (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: His own what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His own demise.
GRACE: Yes. That`s actually a very good point, Lawanda. Let`s go to you, Jean Casarez, on the first question about his confession being so convoluted. It does get convoluted. Explain what we mean by that.
CASAREZ: Well, it does because he said there was no struggle at all, but yet he says that he threw her on the floor. She hadn`t died. So that`s when he had to suffocate her.
Nancy, let`s look at these wounds -- dark red bruises on left side of face, multiple green bruises on both feet, open wound on middle finger right hand, scratches on chin, dark red bruises in interior part of right arm and dark red on both knees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the latest in the Joran Van Der Sloot case...
GRACE: ... killing machine Van Der Sloot confessing to the murder of Stephany and divulges motive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I opened my e-mail and saw a message that said, I`m going to kill you, mongoloid, referring to the Holloway case. I spoke with Stephany, telling her about the case five years ago. She hit my head on the left side with her fist."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... new information, some of it very graphic, about Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Did you use an object to commit the homicide?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "No."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just despicable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I only hit her once on the top of the nose with my right elbow."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a very, very dangerous man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The beige shirt that was found with bloodstains?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Same one I used to asphyxiate Stephany until I killed her."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will justice finally prevail?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us right now is a very special guest. It is John Ludwick, a friend of Joran Van Der Sloot`s. He is joining us from Washington, D.C. Mr. Ludwick, thank you for being with us.
JOHN LUDWICK, FRIEND OF JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: Hi. How`re you doing?
GRACE: I`m great. But I`m concerned about Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession. It does not sound truthful to me. Tell me, how do you know Joran Van Der Sloot?
LUDWICK: I met him in Aruba a few months back, when he came back for his father`s memorial towards the end of February.
GRACE: Yes.
LUDWICK: Yes.
GRACE: How much time -- did you spend a fair bit of time with him?
LUDWICK: Yes. Just about every day for about three-and-a-half months, I was with him, so...
GRACE: Did you know that he was a suspect in the death of American girl Natalee Holloway?
LUDWICK: Yes. That`s how I recognized him when we first met and we started hanging out.
GRACE: May I ask what attracted you to a potential murderer?
LUDWICK: Well, he was never proven guilty, so I wouldn`t call him that, maybe a suspect. But I mean, he seemed like...
GRACE: OK. I`ll use your phrasing. May I ask you what attracted you to a murder suspect?
LUDWICK: I mean, he seemed like he`d be a cool guy and he ended up being -- what the media makes him out to be is far from the truth. He`s a good friend and...
GRACE: Elizabeth, please put Mr. Ludwick up. OK. What were you saying, dear?
LUDWICK: I said what the media portrays him as is far from the truth. He`s a good person and a good friend. And he`s not the serial killer sociopath, psychopath you guys -- the media makes him out to be.
GRACE: OK, Mr. Ludwick, I have in my hand his confession verbatim. And it says, "I hit her in the face on the nose. There was blood everywhere. I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a moment."
Blood was everywhere. Is that the good guy that you`re referring to that`s been misportrayed in the media, that then takes the girl`s clothes off after she`s dead and breaks her neck?
LUDWICK: I`m basing it on the Joran I knew, and that`s not the Joran I know. I can`t speak for what happened that night, but the Joran I know is a good person.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Killing machine. Van Der Sloot confesses to the murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Van Der Sloot described this brutal killing in detail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "She was on the bed when I hit her with the right elbow with force. And I think her head weekend backwards and hit the wall."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators say he confessed to attacking and killing Flores.
GRACE: Beating Stephany to a pulp and breaking her neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Then she started bleeding and immediately I got on top of her and with both hands I started to strangle her, keeping her like that for a minute."
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: He confessed to his involvement in the murder.
GRACE: Brutally beaten, bloody. Her neck cracked, broken. Partially clothed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Then I threw her to the floor, but she was still breathing. So I took the shirt I was still wearing and put it on her face, pressing. Can`t remember how much time but she stopped breathing and I think that`s how I killed her."
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. With us is a special guest, John Ludwick is a friend of Joran Van Der Sloot. He`s joining us from Washington, D.C. tonight.
Mr. Ludwick, are you from the states?
MR. LUDWICK, FRIEND OF MURDER SUSPECT, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, I`m from Alexandria, Virginia.
GRACE: And do your parents know of your friendship with Joran Van Der Sloot?
LUDWICK: Yes, they do.
GRACE: And what do they think of it?
LUDWICK: I mean, they have mixed opinions. But, I mean, he`s my friend and it`s my choice.
GRACE: Right. When you say mixed opinions, what do you mean by that?
LUDWICK: Because of the past alleged incident. I mean --
GRACE: Please put Mr. Ludwick up.
Mr. Ludwick, he`s confessed to breaking somebody`s neck -- a girl`s neck -- and then taking her clothes off after she is dead. And then it says, I used the comforter and the sheets to clean up all the blood from the floor. I only cleaned the floor. He left the rest of the room just bloody.
You know another can of worms. Here is an e-mail exchange between you and Joran Van Der Sloot where he says, happy birthday, I hope you had a good day. This is May 29.
And remember how important family and friends are. By the way, can you send me some money through Western Union tomorrow? Remember that?
LUDWICK: Yes, I do.
GRACE: Did you send him money?
LUDWICK: No, I didn`t. He had told me -- that was the evening of May 29th and I guess the alleged event happened later -- a few hours later into the 30th. But he told me he needed money to get back to Aruba. So, I mean, before I had a chance to help him out, I couldn`t get ahold of him. And then the news said what it said.
GRACE: Sir, it`s not just the news said what it said. The news is not like a being walking around this studio that just spouts things off. The news is what he did and said. It`s just not -- didn`t fall from the sky and hit you on the head.
This is what Joran Van Der Sloot said. But, sir, obviously, you`re going to choose to believe what you want to believe. What, if anything, did he tell you about Natalee Holloway?
LUDWICK: We only had one main discussion on it. And it was an evening that we watched the Natalee Holloway movie on TV. And he just told me parts of the movie that were true and parts that weren`t true. And that`s about at length as I want to get into it.
GRACE: Did you ask him more things?
LUDWICK: No, I didn`t bring it up. He talked to me about it. But I`m not -- I don`t want to get into any more of that.
GRACE: You mean, you don`t want to tell me more about it, right? Or you didn`t want to get into more of it with him?
LUDWICK: No, I don`t want to bring that up at this time.
GRACE: Well, I would advise you to get ready for a subpoena to find out in a court of law what he had to say about Natalee Holloway`s death.
With me is John Ludwick, friend of Joran Van Der Sloot. We are taking your calls.
To Mary in Pennsylvania, hi, Mary.
MARY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. I finally got to talk to you.
GRACE: Likewise.
MARY: This is upsetting to me. These girls, Natalee and this one, didn`t they listen to what their parents talked to them about? Don`t go with strangers? Now --
GRACE: You know what, Mary, let me tell you something.
MARY: Yes?
GRACE: From what I can tell, both of these girls were very nice, very sweet. Everybody loved them. But, Mary, that`s not a whole lot you can do when somebody puts date rape drug in your drink. You don`t know what you`re doing.
Remember he says that Stephany said she felt unwell. I guess she did after she got a Rufi in her drink.
Joining me Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist. Dr. Arnall joining us from Denver.
Doctor, these girls, I`m sure, knew better than to go off with a stranger. When Natalee got into the vehicle with Joran Van Der Sloot, there were apparently two other people in the car. I think they had a false sense of friendship with him, much the same as this young man does tonight, John Ludwick.
And they ended up getting a date rape drug, gamma hydroxyl butyrate? What does it do to you? From my understanding you`re almost unconscious but not quite.
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: That`s exactly right. They were in some state of intoxication and their judgment was significantly altered by that intoxication.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls. Out to -- is it Nancy in New Hampshire?
NANCY, CALLER FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE: Yes.
GRACE: Nancy in New Hampshire, hi, Nancy.
NANCY: Hi, Nancy. I have a couple of questions.
GRACE: OK.
NANCY: I would like to -- the state of limitations in this -- in this extortion.
GRACE: Is there a statute of limitations on extortion? Unleash the lawyers. Joining us, international law attorney, criminal defense attorney Michael Griffith who has handled cases there in Peru and is familiar with the jail system there.
Richard Herman, veteran defense attorney out of New York, and Alex Sanchez, defense attorney out of New York as well. All three gentlemen practicing in multiple jurisdictions.
What about it, Michael Griffith? Did you hear the question?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via phone): Yes, Nancy. If he`s in a Peruvian jail it will probably be tolled, meaning stopped. But you don`t have to worry about him going back to Aruba because there are no charges out of Aruba. The charges are from the United States and then we`ll get the first shot at him on extradition.
GRACE: What about it, Richard Herman?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, this is going to scare you. OK?
GRACE: Put up Herman.
HERMAN: This jury is never going to hear about the -- his involvement on Natalee Holloway. If they believe she suggested they go to his room and they believe his version that it was an impulsive act, you`re looking at three to six years, that`s it.
GRACE: OK, Richard Herman, number one, I`ve never heard you say anything that scared me. And number two, they will hear about Natalee Holloway.
HERMAN: No, they won`t.
GRACE: And the reason they will is because he brings up Natalee Holloway in his confession. He brings it up as motive. He divulges motive, Alex Sanchez. He says she goes on his laptop. Now he`s changed it to a Facebook, I guess a friend calls him a name because of Natalee`s murder and they get into an argument over Natalee Holloway. Therefore, it will come in if the confession comes in.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, any statement should be considered -- one must consider the surrounding circumstances on how that statement came into being. But, you know, the international community is looking at the justice system of Peru at this time, Nancy. And I don`t think they`re so impressed because how is it that this guy Van Der Sloot made a confession --
GRACE: That`s the best you`ve got to give me? That`s all you`ve got?
SANCHEZ: How did he make a confession --
GRACE: Is the world community --
SANCHEZ: That`s right, Nancy.
GRACE: -- will frown on Peru? What about the law?
SANCHEZ: That`s right. How did he make a confession in the presence --
GRACE: What about the Constitution?
SANCHEZ: What about making a confession when you have an attorney standing right next to you? That doesn`t make any sense. This attorney was acting as an agent of the police department, not as an agent of Joran Van Der Sloot.
An American should be concerned about a justice system that approaches people arrested like that.
GRACE: OK, you know, Alex, at least Richard Herman had the good sense to back off when I said that Joran Van Der Sloot brought up Natalee in his confession. Otherwise, it may not have come into evidence. They probably don`t allow similar transactions there. But he brought her up.
Michael Griffith, come on. Tell me the truth, Griffith. He brings up Natalee in his confession. It`s a three-judge panel. They`re going to know about Natalee Holloway. What universe are you defense attorneys beaming in from?
Michael Griffith, just give me a straight answer. They`re going to know about Natalee Holloway. Yes, they are.
GRIFFITH: Well, Nancy, that`s not the point. Nancy --
GRACE: That is the question. That`s the point.
GRIFFITH: The point is the confession is unimportant because they`ve got the -- they`ve got the blood on him. They`ve got the video.
GRACE: Boy, you`re right about that.
GRIFFITH: And they`ve got his flight to the Chile. They don`t need the confession.
GRACE: Well, you`re -- Griffith, Griffith, you`re right. You`re right. They don`t need the confession. But the caller, Nancy in New Hampshire, that was her question. So, yes, they`re going to know about the confession. They`re going to know about Natalee Holloway.
Everybody, we are taking your calls live. We`re going back to Jean Casarez, Peru. We`re going to go to David Ariosto joining us in Aruba to find out what if anything they`re doing in Aruba. I don`t even have to ask him to know the answer is nothing.
As we go to break, tonight, 46 devoted mothers either lose their children to cancer or battling cancer are raising funds for research. Forty-six moms shaved their hair off in honor of Jessica, Isaac, Grace, Jamie, Ella, Levi, Rayley, and Keeghan and dozens of other children touched by childhood cancer.
Their goal $1 million. To donate go to 46mommas.com. Let`s fight childhood cancer.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We`re getting our first idea of what police are pointing to as a possible motive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "When we arrived at the hotel we arrived at my room and played poker on my laptop.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you kill Stephany? Are you innocent?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why you kill her?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They think Van Der Sloot allegedly killed Flores to steal her gambling winnings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I opened my e-mail and saw a message that said, I`m going to kill you, mongoloid, referring to the Holloway case."
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Joran Van Der Sloot`s own words according to police is that it was the Natalee Holloway case that caused this altercation.
BETH TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: My journey for justice has -- has not ended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "At that time I spoke with Stephany telling her about the case five years ago where I was detained and I was a suspect in the disappearance of this girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This guy lies, lies, lies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "She hit my head on the left side with her fist. I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose. There was blood everywhere."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very dramatic confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Took my shirt and put it on her face pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This confession to me is going to be a lie. This is going to be him telling a story to get the lightest sentence possible.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Dr. Janet Taylor. She`s not only a psychiatrist she is a medical doctor as well. Joining us out of New York.
Dr. Taylor, thank you for being with us. Dr. Taylor, I want to talk to you about Joran Van Der Sloot`s friend joining us tonight, John Ludwick. Why would anybody be attracted to a sociopath?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you know, sociopaths are manipulative. They can tell you what they want. They can be charming until you don`t do what they say and then they turn on you with venom so it`s not surprising that he was taken in by his story and in fact believes him.
But the tone of that e-mail said I need you to get you me the money. Happy birthday, you know, has to spend time with your friends but don`t forget I need that money.
GRACE: To you, Mr. Ludwick, what kind of things would you do together?
LUDWICK: Mainly we went to the casino and he liked to play poker. I just watched or played slots. But he really -- I`d say he had a gambling addiction. But he`d play poker almost every night.
GRACE: Did he ever mention where he got the money? Did he ever mention he was in the middle of a shakedown on the dead girl`s mother for $250,000 to name where the dead girl`s body is?
LUDWICK: I know he had money because he ran a coffee shop in Thailand. So he had some money saved for that. But after a while, his money started running low. And that`s when I guess the contact happened with that.
GRACE: What contact?
LUDWICK: That`s when I guess he tried to contact John Kelly or Beth Holloway and that stuff happened when he ran out -- started running out of money.
GRACE: Mr. Ludwick, why do you say he tried to contact them? What he tried to do was extort $250,000 in exchange for the location of Natalee`s body. It would seem to me that you would be concerned that he knew where a dead body was? If you knew where a dead body was, Mr. Ludwick, wouldn`t you tell police?
LUDWICK: Not if it compromised me, maybe not.
GRACE: Well, OK, obviously -- I learned, I think, in kindergarten two plus two equals four. But if Van Der Sloot won`t tell where the body is because it compromises him, that means he`s involved in the murder.
Did that not bother you during all the months you were out at casinos with him?
LUDWICK: I mean I was never in fear for my safety, I mean.
GRACE: I guess it`s because you weren`t a young girl high on a date rape drug.
I want to go to Jerry Speziale, Passaic County Sheriff and author of "Without a Badge."
Speziale, that`s just how people get sucked in a crime. Hanging out with somebody like Joran Van Der Sloot.
JERRY SPEZIALE, PASSAIC COUNTY SHERIFF, AUTHOR OF "WITHOUT A BADGE: Absolutely. He`s -- I think Joran is a stone cold killer and I believe in that confession is a lie as well.
GRACE: It`s a complete lie. Hey, Speziale, listen to this. Hey, to you, Jean Casarez, tell us what Joran Van Der Sloot told the Chilean authorities.
CASAREZ: Well, he -- we got ahold of an Interpol police report out of Chile. And right after he was arrested, he said that armed robbers stormed into the hotel room at gun point, with knives, and that they were the ones that were responsible for the crimes committed in that room. And he fled to try to go get some money, but then came back and they were responsible.
GRACE: Wait. Wait. Wait. All right. Jean, so he says he ran away from the gang of armed robbers? What, so he could go to the ATM and come back and bring them the money? That`s his story?
CASAREZ: That`s right. That`s exactly right, yes.
GRACE: OK. Out to the lines, to Francine, California, hi, dear.
FRANCINE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. I have a couple of questions for you. But first I just want to thank you so much for your show and keeping us updated on this. We`ve been watching you for a long time. Our family has.
GRACE: Thank you.
FRANCINE: I always enjoy you. I have two questions. The first question I have was already touched upon a little bit by one of your guests, which is his confession is so loaded with impulse violence.
And being the son of a lawyer, I`m wondering if he`s deliberately filling his confession with the statements that it was all on impulse in order to lessen his sentence.
GRACE: OK, Richard Herman. She`s got a point. He makes it a point throughout to say I lost control. I didn`t know what I was doing. He knows exactly what he`s doing, Herman.
HERMAN: Sly as a fox, Nancy. It`s not like he met her in the casino and lured her to his room with the intent to kill her. That`s not how it`s going to come down and they can`t prove that. He`s going to say she suggested they go to his room to do online gaming.
And he`s going to say that when she hit him in the head he just snapped and went after her. And that`s going to get him a mitigating sentence, it`s not going to be murder. It`s going to be a manslaughter type that`s going to bring three to six years.
GRACE: Do you agree, Alex Sanchez?
SANCHEZ: Nancy, if his statements are so filled with lies, as you suggest and so self-serving and are designed to mitigate, you know, damage, why shouldn`t Peru simply say, you know what? We`re not going to use the statements at all. We`ll keep them out, we`ll agree to that.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was explaining to her that five years ago I was accused in the case of a missing girl. Because at that moment, I had received a message on Facebook from a person. And she was listening to me.
"All of a sudden, she hit me. I don`t know why. After I responded with hitting her, I feared that she would go to the police and they would detain me for what was an impulsive act. I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn`t thinking."
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now live to Aruba. Standing by, CNN producer David Ariosto.
David, don`t get my hopes up by telling me Aruban authorities are meeting with Peruvian authorities as if Aruba might do something.
DAVID ARIOSTO, CNN PRODUCER: Well, thanks, Nancy. Like I said, Aruban authorities are anxiously awaiting that phone conversation tomorrow morning. This would represent the first time Peruvian and Aruban authorities have discussed this case.
And they`re anxiously awaiting what information they can glean from the Flores case. Now it`s important to remember that these are two separate cases here, though there has been some at least evidence that the media has reported that linking the two.
Police here are treating this case with a degree of skepticism. Van Der Sloot has made false statements in the past and have been proven false just as recently as showing, you know, investigators here an alleged location of Holloway`s body. That information proved to be false.
So in a sense, they`re very skeptical about what information they might actually glean from this investigation and what Peruvians have actually found throughout the course of the Flores case.
I can tell you one thing, though. People here are enamored with this case and all are anxious and looking for some sort of resolution to a case that`s dragged on now for five years.
Van Der Sloot was arrested in 2005, released for lack of evidence. Arrested two years later in 2007, and again released for lack of evidence. So investigators here and police here are anxious but yet skeptical of what actually might come out of this phone conversation.
GRACE: In the moments we have left, Jean Casarez joining us live in Peru.
Jean, I don`t even want to stir the pot and get people`s hopes up that Aruba is like would fall off the log they`ve been sleeping on the last five years and do something. But they are having a conference tomorrow morning, correct?
CASAREZ: That`s right. And one of the things that they should be talking about is this computer because police have his computer. There needs to be an order from a judge so that they can execute that search warrant to look through it. But just what is included on that computer?
GRACE: Jean will be joining us again tomorrow night live from Peru, god willing, and we`ll be taking your calls live as the story progresses.
Van Der Sloot supposedly before a judge tomorrow morning.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Staff Sergeant Jason Lehto, 21, Warren, Michigan, killed Iraq. Awarded two National Defense Service medals. Global War on Terrorism service medal, Armed Forces service medal. Lost his life hours after e-mailing his wife about their dream home.
Loved chess, fishing, family barbecues, dreamed of being an ATF agent. Leaves behind father, Robert, brother, Anthony, sisters, Leeann and Angela, sons Nathan, Joseph, Joshua.
Jason Lehto, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And tonight a heart-felt welcome back to our dear Liz. She already had (INAUDIBLE) and Kai, then she goes overseas to bring home baby Kemo. And now just gave birth to beautiful baby Malia.
Now that will put a smile on your heart.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
