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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Joran Claims Peruvian Police Threatened Torture; Interview With Gary Coleman`s Father
Aired June 24, 2010 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, panic in Peru. Joran Van Der Sloot attacks police, claiming cops threatened to water torture him if he didn`t confess. First, he was tricked. Then, he was lost in translation. Now, he was tortured? What really happened inside that interrogation room? And could Joran now be set free to walk the Peruvian streets while awaiting trial?
Plus an ISSUES special guest. Tonight ,I`ll talk one-on-one with the late Gary Coleman`s devastated father. What happened inside that hospital room? Why didn`t Gary`s dad get a chance to say goodbye to his famous son? And why did Gary`s ex-wife pull the plug? Tonight, we`ll examine shocking new claims that she didn`t have the legal authority to make that fatal decision.
And fast-breaking developments in the "Survivor" murder mystery. A hot shot reality TV producer accused of murdering his wife at a lavish Mexican resort, but he`s still strolling around Beverly Hills. Tonight, Mexico finally asks for his extradition. Is this TV producer headed south of the border to face murder charges? ISSUES starts now.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL (on-camera): Tonight, will Joran Van Der Sloot`s gruesome, emotionless confession to cold-blooded murder be thrown right out the window? Pure chaos in Peru as the world watches. Look at Joran. He`s being absolutely manhandled by mobs outside the prison. This story gets crazier every passing day. Tonight, Joran`s defense attorney says the accused killer should walk free until the judge orders him to appear in court. What?
Joran is a man who after an innocent woman was bludgeoned and strangled in his hotel room, fled 3,000 miles into another country. That`s called a flight risk, people. But Joran is fighting tooth and nail to break out of the big house. Basically, he has declared war on Peruvian police. Joran told a Dutch reporter Peruvian cops threatened to torture him if he didn`t sign a confession. Here`s last night`s "Nancy Grace" show.
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VOICE OF JOHN VAN DEN HEUVEL, REPORTER, `DE TELEGRAAF`: Yes, that`s what he said. He said that the police in Chile and Peru put mental pressure to sign the reports, and he said they put a bucketful of water near him and they threatened him to put his head under the water if he didn`t declare.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say that again? What did he say?
DEN HEUVEL: He said that there was a bucket full of water near his -- near him. And he said that they threatened him that they`d put his head under water if he didn`t want to declare anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you believe it? Did police really threaten to dunk Joran`s head in a bucket of water? Joran insists he was tricked and threatened into admitting he beat, strangled, and smothered Stephany Flores Ramirez with the shirt right off his back. You`re looking at right there. Look at it. It is drenched in blood.
Plus, more stunning details from Joran`s mom explosive interview. She calls Joran a sneaky liar and says he missed his calling. He should have been an actor. Were it only so. Anita Van Der Sloot blames Joran`s involvement in the Natalee Holloway case and the murder case in Peru on the playboy`s obsession with trolling casinos. Is he a gambling addict? Yes, yes, yes.
And for the very first time, the Lima hotel employee who discovered Stephany`s bruised and battered body speaks out. You will not believe that harsh she says she found inside that hotel room. Stephany in only a t- shirt and red panties, a river of blood streaming out of her nose.
I want your questions and comments on this ever more mystifying and gruesome case. Call me. 1-877-jvm-says. That`s 1-877-586-7297. Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, but first, Jean Casarez correspondent with "In Session." Jean, congrats on an amazing exclusive last night that you got with that Dutch reporter. You rock and you are in Peru smack in the middle of all of this. What is the very latest?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: The very latest is the habeas corpus investigation that will determine whether Joran Van Der Sloot walks free or not, the judge says now that might not come down until the first part of next week. But on the other side, do you know the two brothers that were charged with allegedly taking him over and across the border into Chile? Well, they were supposed to appear before the judge just like Joran Van Der Sloot did earlier this week. Well, guess what, they didn`t show up to court. We just found that out minutes ago. Now, though, they supplied the judge with written reasons why they weren`t there, they didn`t show up. And so it`s been reset for July 5th and 6th.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I understand that you`ve gotten three new crime scene photos. We are processing them. They are coming in as we speak. We`re going to bring them to you this hour as soon as we get them. We`ll look at them first together.
And here`s my big issue tonight. The boy who cried torture, Joran is claiming Peruvian police threatened to dunk his head in a bucket of water unless he signed a confession in Spanish that said he bludgeoned, strangled, and smothered Stephany Flores. Will anybody believe him even if it is true because he`s lied so many times before. Criminal profiler, pat brown. You know, first thing I thought of, why is he making these shocking claims now? This is the very first time we`re hearing anything about this. It`s been weeks since he signed that confession. If this had really happened, wouldn`t he said it right away?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Oh, you would think so, Jane. I guess, he just decided didn`t like the amount of time he might have to spend in jail and prison if he gets whatever sentence he`s going to get for the supposed robbery and the murder. I think what he`s doing now is he`s thinking to himself, wait a minute, those people that are on death row that suddenly all these groups are trying to get them off death row and they keep saying they`re innocent, and you know, some of them are really darn guilty but they got like a thousand groups on the internet trying to save their lives and saying, oh, no, no they`re totally innocent.
If he can get that going, that kind of sentiment, maybe he can make something out of this. That`s what he`s thinking in his head, anyway. If he can get people to believe that the police are rotten down there and he has absolutely nothing to do with anything and is truly, totally being railroaded.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it`s going to back fire on him --
BROWN: Big time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, I have another big issue. Is this tactic going to get Joran free or to get him fried? Free or fried? You know, in Peru, if you cooperate, they treat you leniently. Listen to this.
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MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY: The argument is for him to cooperate because he`s doing nothing right. In Peru, if you cooperate, you`ll get a better deal.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, instead he`s boldly accusing Peruvian police of threatening to torture him. Is he asking for it? Joran also said they illegally went through his computer. They said that they gave him an attorney that was the girlfriend of a cop. I mean, it goes on and on. Listen, I got to say, Dan Connoway, Joran is dragging the entire Peruvian criminal justice system through the mud and this is on an international stage. The entire world is watching this case. What is Peru going to do in response to this tactic?
DAN CONWAY, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY: I think that they`re going to take the cooperation angle off the table at some point. I think that this latest attack on the interrogation is really showing his desperation. I mean, it`s really a desperate act because why didn`t you talk about this before? And I think he`s saying, so far, what I`ve said so far hasn`t been enough to get me of the hook, and so now, I`m going to come up with new stories. And it just doesn`t sound credible.
And the Peruvian judge is very, very powerful in this situation. He can interrogate. He can subpoena witnesses. He can punish. And so, he can simply throw the cooperation issue away if he wants to. And this could be where this is leading at this point for Van Der Sloot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, you`re there in Peru. What is the reaction in Peru amongst the Peruvian people to his attack on the criminal justice system there?
CASAREZ: Well, let me just tell you what the headlines of the newspaper are. It was that he`s making a mockery out of our justice system. But, on the other side -- two sides to every story. He has rights here in Peru. And his attorney has a duty to zealously defend him which looks like he`s doing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Monica, Texas, your question or thought, ma`am.
MONICA, TEXAS: Yes, ma`am. First a comment and then a question, please.
MONICA, TEXAS: The comment is you made a comment on "Prime News" about a gambling problem. My father -- I just experienced -- went through millions gambling. And I receive a government check and he started getting abusive because I wouldn`t give him any money. So, I actually had to leave. And so my question is, just like him, my father also lies a lot. So like a liar and a killer go hand in hand. Doesn`t it get easier to kill just like it gets easier to lie about things?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: John Lucich, you`re a former criminal investigator. You deal a lot with psychology. I certainly think as a recovering alcoholic myself with 15 years of sobriety, I look at this guy and say, he`s clearly a gambling addict. His mother told ABC he used to sneak out of the house as a kid and go to the casinos. That`s a clear sign when you start that early. He met both of these women at casinos. He blew through reportedly $25,000 of extortion money that he allegedly got reportedly from Natalee Holloway`s mother as part of an FBI sting.
This girl sits next to him, Stephany Flores. She is winning at the table. She won thousands of dollars. He`s losing money. That is to me addiction that provides a motive for murder.
JOHN LUCICH, FMR. CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Right. You know, this guy loves to live the fast life. He loves to live the high life. And he`s living that life. He`s using something that`s worked for him which is lie. Natalee Holloway, sex trafficking. Now, he thinks he`s going to use the same thing to get off. He`s not going anywhere. This guy`s credibility is a shot, and those cops are doing a great job. They`re going to push this guy away.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stephanie Good, you were the author of "Aruba: The Tragic Untold Story of Natalee Holloway" and "Corruption in Paradise." The mom is saying he used to sneak out and go gambling as a kid. What do you know about his ambling addiction?
STEPHANIE GOOD, "ARUBA, THE TRAGIC UNTOLD STORY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY": There`s no question, Jane. He used to go into the casinos. He was 17. He was under aged to be there. As a matter of fact, on the night that Natalee disappeared, Paulos took him into the casino, sat there and gambled with him and then left him with there with his credit line.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re saying Paulos is his dad?
GOOD: Yes, Paulos is his dad. That`s right. His parents knew what he was doing. He ran up tabs not only in casinos. He ran up tabs in the bars and he was also known -- he`s not -- he didn`t win that much, you know. He lost a lot especially lately. I think that`s one of the things that frustrated him the most. But as far as the authorities are concerned in Peru, I think what he`s trying to do -- I think he`s trying to make the Peruvian officials look as incompetent as the Aruban officials looked during the investigation of Natalee Holloway. I think he`s thinking that if he can do that, he can get away with it in Peru the way he got away with it in Aruba.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. The road gets narrower when you are an addict, and I believe that he`s cross-addicted because he had ten whiskeys the night that Stephany Flores went with him into his hotel room. And I believe he`s cross-addicted to gambling and alcohol. And when you`re cross-addicted, when you got two things you`re jonesing for, that makes you doubly dangerous.
Everybody stay right where you are. Joran says this is all a setup. He`s being framed. Is anybody buying it? Give me a call if you are or if you aren`t. 1-877-jvm-says. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, I will talk with Gary Coleman`s heartbroken father and go inside the final minutes of Gary`s agonizing death.
But first excuses, excuses. Joran now says he was tortured and forced to confess. How many times is this guy going to change his story?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In part of the confession, Van Der Sloot says that Flores struck him first with her fist. Now, there are no markings on Van Der Sloot. So, there are no suggestions that, in fact, Flores assaulted him at all, which is why they don`t believe Van Der Sloot.
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CAROLINA JORGE, VICTIM`S SISTER-IN-LAW: I think he`s psycho, a murderer, and he has to pay.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: We promised you we would show you three new crime scene photos just in to ISSUES. You and I are looking at them for the first time together. We are seeing here a sneaker, and we`re going to move to the next one. These are brand new. This, I believe, is the -- OK, her hand, yes. And it`s from Pan American TV. And I do have to warn you that this is a very graphic image. Stephany, there we have her feet sticking out from under the blanket that her body was wrapped in.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV. This is disturbing stuff. We want to put it in context. What do you know about these horrific photos?
CASAREZ: Well, we do want to credit Pan Americana who we got them from late this afternoon, kind enough to give them to us. These are actual crime scene photos from inside the hotel room at the Hotel Tac. As you can see, it`s before her body was moved, Stephany Flores. It`s part of what they found when investigators and the Peruvian national police arrived on the scene on the early days of June.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to analyze them and also talk about some other aspects of the case. The police have said there was no sexual assault. But criminal profiler, Pat Brown, you brought up a very interesting point right here on ISSUES last night. Let`s listen to what you had to say.
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BROWN: She doesn`t take her pants off to go look at the computer and no man says, who`s not involved with some kind of sexual assault, say, oh, after she was dead, I removed her pants and shoes especially the pants have no blood on them. So, yes, they were moved before she was killed. Why would that be?
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, again, take a look at these photos of Stephany`s jeans obtained by CBS. There is no blood on them at all. Pat, you are absolutely right. If he took off her pants after he killed her, as he said in his original confession, there would be blood on them because his shirt was drenched in blood, so were the sheets. The whole room was. So, what does that tell you, Pat Brown.
BROWN: You know, there`s no reason to take her pants off after death, anyway. What`s he looking for? A wallet in her undies? I mean, there`s no reason to do it. With all that blood over there, he just wants to get out of the room. It makes no sense. So, obviously, he removed them before and he threw them some place in the room and then the violent assault occurred. The problem we`re having is when we talk about sexual assault, we can`t prove sexual assault it`s because there were no signs of a rape.
But that doesn`t mean a sexual assault wasn`t attempted. Doesn`t mean that maybe a forced oral sex act wasn`t attempted. That`s the problem. It`s hard to prove. But I say, when you got a guy ripping off her jeans, you got a sexual assault in progress.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and she may have been lured to his room on the pretext of let`s play some online gambling or what have you, but we know -- we believe we know that she wouldn`t be interested in having a romantic relationship with him because a woman claiming to be her ex-girlfriend said that she was gay and she was not interested in having an affair with a guy. And that woman who says she was her ex-girlfriend says there`s no way that she would go to his room for that reason. Linda in Georgia, are you there with us still?
LINDA, GEORGIA: Yes, I am.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, what`s your question or thought, ma`am?
LINDA, GEORGIA: I`m just wondering if he keeps threatening the police like he is. They got him in protective custody right now. Won`t they put him in general population?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dan Conway, you`re the international law attorney. That`s an excellent question. They could retaliate before they go to trial.
CONWAY: Yes, they can. I mean, he`s in protective custody and we saw when Jean Casarez went into the cell and showed where he was. And compared to general population, he`s living the high life right now such as it is in that prison. So, they can do what they want. If they decide to move him into the general population, that is a determination that`s to be made by the prison and by the prison officials. They`re in charge of that. And so, if he keeps pushing in this way, he could very, very easily end up in the general population, and it`s not going to be a whole lot of fun for him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a very, very strong premonition that this story is just going to get more bizarre, and perhaps, we`re going to hear something really, really, really awful about what happens to this guy behind bars. Fantastic panel. Stay right where you are. We`re headed back to Peru on the other side.
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BETH TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: So, the suspect who took my daughter from Carlos and Charley`s on the last night of her senior trip, her the last to be seen with her alive and who offered at least a dozen different versions of what they did with her and who admitted to committing or witnessing sexual assaults against her while she was unable to defend herself are now free.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: An unbelievable request from Joran Van Der Sloot`s attorney. Could Joran be freed? His defense attorney has asked the judge to let Joran walk free pending trial apparently? Let him out of the perilous Miguel Castro-Castro Prison where he`s being held? Take a look at the mob scene that surrounds him there in Peru right now. How would he be able to walk around Peru? And additionally, can you say flight risk? This is the same guy who fled for 3,000 miles after a badly bludgeoned, murdered woman was found in his hotel room. Anne, Georgia, your question or thought, ma`am.
ANNE, GEORGIA: Yes. I don`t believe this guy does not understand Spanish. If you lived in Aruba, (INAUDIBLE), that`s off the coast of Venezuela. They speak a language called Paramento. Spanish is a basic form of the language. If you talk to Deepak and Satish, they speak Spanish. What are your thoughts?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, I want to go to you on that for an answer on that question. And also, additionally, we haven`t heard anything about bail. Have they set bail? Have they said he got no bail? So, address those issues.
CASAREZ: OK. Number one, when we first arrived here, we heard that he spoke Spanish. Then we heard he spoke limited Spanish. Then we heard they were asking for an official certified Dutch translator. So, that was the progression we had. As far as -- what was the second question?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I was wondering about bail. You`ve been working around the clock. I was asking about bail. His lawyer wants him to go free. There`s something called bail. Does that exist in Peru?
CASAREZ: Not for Joran Van Der Sloot. The issue was never addressed with him to my knowledge, not at all. Now, the three men that were charged with obstruction of justice because they, you know, allegedly drove him to the border and over, they`re free. They`re not behind bars because it is such a lesser offense, I heard.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is a parallel here, I believe, to another famous case -- the Foxy Knoxy Amanda Knox murder case in Italy. Attractive young foreigners on trial for murder who don`t seem to get the concept when in Rome do as the Romans do. Both are cases the world is watching and many believe Amanda was punished with a severe sentence for what the Italian police saw as a lack of respect. Amanda reportedly was doing splits and cartwheels in the police station while she was being questioned in her roommate`s murder.
And on top of that, she also took the stand and said very clearly that they hit her in the head, and she even demonstrated that in court, something that was played around the world. Dan Conway, you`re the international law expert. Do you think that it`s a parallel?
CONWAY: Yes, I do. You see this a lot with people traveling to foreign countries, but quite frankly, I think a lot with Americans. We live in a large country where we have lots of room and lots of space. And when you go to another country, you have to remember that you need to abide by the rules of their culture. And many cultures especially Latin culture such as Italy and Peru are much more formal. The judicial systems are much more formal and the --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joran Van Der Sloot has a new excuse for his confession. That`s next.
But first "Top of the Block" tonight.
I have to tell you I was losing sleep at night thinking about the hemorrhaging oil in the Gulf. But now I`m on full insomnia mode. This nightmare could be the tip of BP`s deadly iceberg. "The New York Times" is now reporting the oil giant is taking on a new risky project in Alaska. They`re trying to reach a huge oil reserve two miles under shore and they`re using extended-reach drilling. Sound familiar? It should. This could be a disaster waiting to happen again.
But wait, there`s more. Turns out BP already has government permits for that drilling. In 2007 -- are you sitting down -- government regulators allowed BP to write their own environmental review.
The foxes are literally running the hen house. And the hen house is burning to the ground. It`s time to get up and demand a change.
How can we expect BP to improve safety when they`re the ones with the red pen? We really need a clean slate. We have to go back years and years double-checking government permits and inspecting oil wells that could turn into new catastrophes.
It`s a lot of work, but it`s not as much work as removing millions and millions and millions and millions of gallons of toxic oil from the gills and lungs of dead birds, dead animals, dead fish, people have died, a lifestyle destroyed. You get the picture. We need change.
That is tonight`s "Top of the Block".
We`re going back to Joran Van Der Sloot fighting tooth and nail to break out of the notorious Miguel Castro-Castro prison. His attorney wants him freed while he awaits trial.
Going back out to Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV, who scored some amazing exclusives this week: you had an exclusive interview with a reporter from "Der Telegraaf" (ph), which is a Dutch newspaper, a reporter who spoke to Joran. Give us the headlines.
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": The headline is that he believes Joran is trying to get a manslaughter conviction here, that he seemed like he was versed in Peruvian law to the point that he said that for murder it was 35 years but if you get down to manslaughter, it`s only about seven years. Then you`ll be out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Now, what about the torture aspect?
CASAREZ: Well, this was shocking because the Dutch crime reporter just was talking about what Joran had said and he said that when he was interrogated that they a bucket of water and they told him, if you don`t make this declaration, your head is going to go in that water. He said it was said a couple of times to him and that was the pressure that made him go forward and keep talking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, we`ve told you that we`ve just gotten in moments ago some really gruesome -- and I want to warn -- I saw it as you did the first time around. I didn`t realize how gruesome they would be and I was quite shocked actually and a little taken aback.
I want to warn you now that I`ve had a chance to see these photos. Maybe if you joined us from beginning you`ve seen them already. But if you haven`t they`re shocking and they`re from Pan America TV.
This is a sneaker from the crime scene but the next two are truly disturbing. This is the victim Stephany Flores Ramirez`s hand. You see there that it looks very scarred and like she was in a tremendous struggle. And then an even more gruesome photo which really breaks my heart of this murdered young woman who had done absolutely thing but play a very good game of poker at a casino and her legs there.
This is the woman in life, this beautiful young lady who is the daughter of a very prominent family in Peru. Her father had actually run for national office. And this story has really dominated all of Peru`s attention as well as the world`s attention.
And I want to go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. What do those photos tell you if you`re able to see them from your location?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: They`re actually kind of hard to actually see very clearly like, for example, the hand. Actually -- what we see that could look like bruising actually could be part of -- she`s decomposing. It`s been three or four days by the time it gets to autopsy. So we can`t really tell exactly what that is.
But certainly we see that she does have those feet hanging out. She`s not a fully-dressed woman. We know there is a horribly brutal scene that goes down there.
I think if they wanted him to confess to something they could have gotten him to confess to something that would be 35 years which would be attempted sexual assault. Instead the confession says I just went crazy. That was the manslaughter thing that Joran was going after, that`s seven years.
I would think if the police really wanted to get him they would have gotten a better confession. Those are Joran`s words and they are not pushed out of him by the cops down there.
Diane, Indiana, your question or thought, ma`am.
DIANE, INDIANA (via telephone): Yes. I have a question. What language was his laptop in? She didn`t speak Dutch. He spoke very little Spanish. And I would think that it wouldn`t be in English.
So I think what her -- her fate was sealed when he walked her through the door and closed it, that he was going to kill her and get her money. And what he did was he showed her he had killed before. He`s the one that pulled up the Natalee Holloway story on his computer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Diane in Indiana, you`re brilliant. And you`ve actually said something that -- I`m kicking myself now -- I should have thought of immediately. Pat brown, we should have immediately thought of he`s claiming that they were playing online poker on the laptop when suddenly an instant message pops up on the fifth anniversary of Natalee Holloway`s disappearance, referring to him and his role in the Natalee Holloway saga. And that she confronts him and socks him and he then loses it and proceeds to kill her in a moment of just blind rage.
But it`s true. If his computer is in Dutch, she`s not going to be able to read that. She reads Spanish.
BROWN: Correct. And on top of that his latest claim -- because he has a couple of different stories there. His latest claim was there was an instant message that popped up that said I`m going to kill you, you mongoloid or whatever the guy called him. Then he supposedly what -- explained to her what that means? The reason he`s telling me that is because I killed some other girl.
That`s a ludicrous story. He`s just coming up with an excuse why he had to kill her to get away from that sexual assault. I don`t believe for a minute there was anything going on in that computer or that she saw anything or he had to explain anything or she got mad with him.
He`s blaming the victim and going with that manslaughter thing. "I went into a rage." That`s the best deal he`s going to get if he can get them to believe that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, getting to the computer, we know that Joran has accused law enforcement of illegally going into his computer and looking at it without the right court documentation. So what did they find out? Do we know?
CASAREZ: No, I think seizing the computer -- this is what I understand under Peruvian law in the courtroom. The computer is brought in with the forensic technician. You have prosecutor, defense and the defendant and the judge and that`s when they begin to look at it so that there is no impropriety. That has not been done yet. The judge has to order it.
But Jane, I have to tell you, I looked up his Facebook account. There is a Facebook account for Joran Van Der Sloot. It`s all in English. Not that somebody couldn`t e-mail him in Dutch but the Facebook account is all in English.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That could then undermine our new theory because as you know Jean wherever you go in the world, people are seemingly able to speak English. Even people who say I can`t speak it at all then they proceed to speak in English. It`s become the universal language.
Tonight the hotel employee who discovered Stephany`s body is speaking out as well. And she describes this disturbing scene.
She says she saw a river of blood flowing from Stephany`s nose, long hair sticking out from underneath a blood-drenched blanket. But even more shocking she ran into Joran outside just minutes after the murder. See those coffee cups in his hand? He was out there picking up coffee outside the hotel and she said he was cool as a cucumber.
John Lucich, you`re the former criminal investigator. Does his cold reaction to Stephany Flores tell us anything about the Natalee Holloway case? I mean, hypothetically speaking, if somebody kills once, are they calmer and cooler and more collected the second time around?
JOHN LUCICH, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Absolutely they are. They have gotten used to the criminal prosecution side of things. They`ve gotten used to dealing with the media and they`re going to use what has worked for him in the past.
As far as bail I hope this guy does get bail because I think the first guy on the list to bail him out is Stephany`s dad.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I know what you mean.
Louis, Massachusetts. Your questions or thoughts, sir.
LOUIS, MASSACHUSETTS (via telephone): I just have a comment. I think he is a flight risk and I think he`s going to get off. I think he`s going to walk and you`re never going to find him again. He`s going to be the next Whitey Bulger.
The reason why, he commits crimes in Peru, in Aruba, where you can buy the judicial system, where you can buy the police. Why doesn`t he commit a crime in the United States? He knows there`s a death penalty in different places in the United States. And he won`t go get a needle in his arm and he`s dead but he does it in Peru and places he can buy his way out.
He`s going to get out of jail because he`s just going to buy his way out of it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Great point.
Dan Conoway, you`re the international law expert. Does he have a point?
DAN CONOWAY, INTERNATIONAL LAW EXPERT: Unfortunately he does. One of the problems that you find with inquisitorial systems in developing nations such as Peru is that sometimes justice can be bought.
Now, in this situation, there`s two things. One, Peru is work (ph) performance system. Secondly, remember who the victim`s family is. They`ve got power too.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And they`re not going to let him get away with it. We are all over this story. Stay with us on ISSUES.
And we`re also moving on to another extraordinary story that has an international twist. A hot shot TV producer accused of killing his wife but somehow he`s not in prison. He`s sauntering around Beverly Hills. Could he finally be facing justice?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SHANNON PRICE, GARY COLEMAN`S EX-WIFE: He is freaking out again. Hitting, you know, hitting his head on the wall. Knocked the fan over. You know, he`s just being crazy again.
911 OPERATOR: Is he suicidal?
PRICE: Yes, he`s suicidal but I just don`t know what his problem is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stunning insight tonight into the life and death of child star Gary Coleman. His ashes under lock and key while two women each claiming to have a different will battle it out in court.
Now, Gary`s parents are speaking out. They want to know what happened to their only son. In a moment I`m going to talk to Gary`s dad, Willie Coleman, right here on ISSUES.
Just this week we learned that Gary took out a restraining order against his ex-wife Shannon Price only months before he died. He claimed she was stealing his stuff and that he was the victim of domestic violence. Gary`s parents say they`ve never even met Shannon, the ex.
But now they do want to talk to her. What`s their reaction to their former daughter-in-law posing for photos with Gary on his death bed, photos that were sold to a tabloid? Shannon`s agent denies his client made any money off of those pictures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIELIA ERIKSON, SHANNON PRICE`S AGENT: Shannon, you know she sold some photos --
MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: The next morning --
ERIKSON: -- they licensed some photos but she never made any money off of the interview. It was -- they licensed photos. That was it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Such controversy over that photo ending up in the tabloids. Coleman famously sued his parents in 1989 for allegedly stealing his money, a claim his parents deny.
So let`s get right to the truth. Straight out to my special guest on the phone Gary`s dad, Willie Coleman. Sir, thank you so much for your time and our condolences to you and your wife.
WILLIE COLEMAN, GARY COLEMAN`S FATHER (via telephone): Yes, thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Obviously, we share your pain. This has got to be a terrible time for you especially with everything coming out about the behavior of Gary`s ex-wife.
His death is officially being treated as an accident. Cops say there was nothing suspicious, but do you think they should reopen the investigation into your son, Gary Coleman`s death?
COLEMAN: Yes. In a way, I do believe that maybe they should reopen the investigation, because my understanding was -- from what I clearly understood that this person stated that at the time that this happened, that she was in bed when the -- when the medic -- the medic -- the emergency was called and everything, that she was in bed and she had had a seizure and she could not assist Gary.
But that was the first 911 that I heard. And then later on, I hear something else about that she could not stand all that blood and everything. And I wonder what was the remarks in the way of blood. What was -- who was doing that talking? Was it her or was it, you know, Gary`s agent, because it`s hard for me to believe that someone that`s in bed and could not assist their husband -- supposed to have been husband at the time.
And that when the EMT asked her was he conscious -- and my understanding -- I`m a very good listener because I hear everything. And she said, no, she couldn`t assist him because she was in bed. And in bed where? Upstairs, he was downstairs in the kitchen preparing a meal.
And my thing is that strikes funny to me is that if she was in bed, first of all, if she went downstairs, why did not -- that was relayed in the first 911 call and why on earth that she stated that she couldn`t stand all the blood, you know.
I mean, I could understand if he had hit his head on something. But just falling as he had a blood clot. That wouldn`t cause -- the conclusion -- of his head busted open and it started bleeding.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you want them to -- you want cops to reopen the case of your son Gary Coleman`s death, yes?
COLEMAN: Yes. If possible, yes, because in a way everything have not been explained. Now, I`m not pointing no finger at nobody. I`m just saying that it`s very peculiar.
And you know, to me is that if it was me, ok, and I had a wife or either a husband and that I`m in the house by myself and something happened to my wife or my husband and if I --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`d take -- you would take action, obviously.
COLEMAN: Yes, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know that.
And, Carlos Diaz, we had a bombshell that was dropped on ISSUES, this week. Gary`s former attorney Randy Kester said that he handled paperwork for Gary and he did not believe that she had the authority, because they had divorced, to pull the plug.
CARLOS DIAZ, SYNDICATED RADIO HOST: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you know and what do you think?
COLEMAN: And --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
DIAZ: No and then I said from the beginning the same thing that Gary`s father is saying right now, that they -- that this was -- this case was closed way too early and that the cops in Utah need to reopen this case and to do a full investigation of what really did happen that day that Gary Coleman apparently fell.
And I just think the 911 call -- first off, after you hear the 911 call that sounds suspicious. And then when you -- now the new breaking news is that she wasn`t allowed to pull the plug, there was a restraining order put against her by Gary, never given to her, never served to her but he filed for a restraining order against her in February, all these things.
And now Gary`s father is saying he wants an investigation opened. This all should point to the authorities in Utah reopening this case.
COLEMAN: Which I agree. Something should be looked at a little closer. Because whether or not that he signed in that -- he had filed a restraining order against this person.
Now, I don`t know how many people is involved in a restraining order, just her or anybody else? We don`t know that, see. And then again, what it comes down to is that as far as disconnecting the life support and impression on it was 10 to 15 days I mean.
My wife is a nurse. Ok? She`s been a nurse for 37 years and in all indication you know, we were discussing that along with the doctors. The doctors are telling us that there is no way that nobody could give nobody authority to unplug someone unless someone with authority has to be informed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the opposite side of the break. We are going to ask a question, why was Gary with Shannon if he was scared of her?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PRICE: He`s freaking out again. Hitting, you know, hitting his head on the wall. Knocked the fan over. You know, he`s just being crazy again.
911 OPERATOR: Is he suicidal?
PRICE: Yes. He`s suicidal but I just don`t know what his problem is.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here is my big issue tonight. Why Shannon Price? Why was she still allowed to live at Gary`s house?
Gary`s former attorney Randy Kester is quoted as saying their relationship was so toxic they actually slept in separate bedrooms. Why not kick her out?
Kent Emmons, you are a friend of Gary Coleman`s. Why if he filed a restraining order against her and apparently suspected her of stealing his stuff was she living there?
KENT EMMONS, GARY COLEMAN`S FRIEND: You know, you see these all the time. In abusive relationships it is typically the women that are being abused. Same thing though, the weaker party is being abused and they`re afraid to get out. Gary was absolutely afraid of her.
As far as pulling the plug goes, there are four things we know for sure. One, Gary`s directive clearly stated "don`t pull the plug before 15 days". Two, Shannon Price did not have the right -- no right whatsoever to pull that plug. Three fraudulently represented herself as his wife in the hospital. And then of course, four, the people at the hospital knowing she was a nut case didn`t bother to check they just took her word for it. So it`s a mess.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Darren Kavinoky, why then are police saying, nothing suspicious here, nothing to see. Move along, move along. Why don`t they reopen the case?
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. That makes no sense to me. For all of the reasons we`ve talked about today and then there`s that photo. I mean her posing next to Gary like a tourist posing next to the giant pumpkin at the county fair, that was something for me that makes me think that with the entirety of all these things there is more than just smoke going on here. There is fire.
And the only way we get behind that is to reopen this investigation and get to the bottom of this with total transparency.
EMMONS: Darren, you`re absolutely right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I agree. Willie Coleman, Gary Coleman`s dad, you apparently never met Shannon. Now, when your son married her why didn`t he introduce her to you? Why were you estranged from your son?
COLEMALN: Well, the whole problem is -- the fact of the matter is that we didn`t know he was getting married. We didn`t know that he had gotten married until after the fact. We was not sent an invitation and everything (INAUDIBLE). We didn`t know this person exists.
But I`m telling you we very happy he had gotten married. Where the twist is that after he had gotten married we were expecting all the times when we found out he was married that we were going to be surprised either he was going to be calling us to say, "Mom, dad, I`m married." Or "I`ll be bringing my wife home and everything for you guys to meet her." But that never occurred. And we don`t know why.
EMMONS: Maybe I could jump in on this a little bit.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Carlos, do you think he was easily manipulated because he suffered from such health problems and had to have dialysis three times a week and that weakens you.
DIAZ: Yes, it does. It weakens you, it weakens your spirit. You know it just seems to me that you have a guy like Gary Coleman who was in love with the wrong woman.
Once again, you really need to listen to that 911 call. Jane, I know you`ve got a big heart. If you love someone and they are downstairs bleeding, I don`t care if you suffer from seizures, I don`t care what your condition is you are going to go down there and help him. And that was not the case with this 911 call.
COLEMAN: Right. Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to thank Gary Coleman`s dad. Please come back. We want you on camera the next time. Thank you.