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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Kyron`s Step-Mom Blames Media; Convicted Rapist Suspect in Murder of Girl, 14
Aired July 16, 2010 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, blood boiling new developments in the desperate search for adorable little Kyron Horman. His step-mom is now playing the victim card. Her lawyer says Terri Horman is getting death threats, and now they`re lashing out to the media, calling this whole thing a witch-hunt. But what about the shocking claims that she tried to hire a hit man to kill her husband?
And escalating violence in the war on women. A 14-year-old girl was paid for sex, then brutally stabbed to death. Her alleged killer was convicted of rape back in 2002. So why was this monster released so quickly so he could allegedly attack again?
Also, Erin Andrews fights back. She was secretly videotaped naked inside her hotel room. Now she wants payback. She`s suing the hotel for invasion of privacy and negligence. But will this just expose her even more? We`ll debate it.
Plus head spinning new twists and turns in Mel Gibson`s purported meltdown. He allegedly admitted to beating his girlfriend and threatening her life. Now he`s won the right to continue to see his baby daughter. If these tapes are Mel Gibson, who in their right mind would let him around children?
But also tonight, new photos are raising questions about ex-girlfriend Oksana`s story.
ISSUES start now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight bizarre new developments in the Kyron Horman case. Have the tables now been turned on the missing boy`s infamous step- mom?
Terri Horman`s attorney says she is now getting death threats. Is this woman once described as a doting step-mom now playing the unwanted role of hated villain?
It has been six long weeks since little Kyron vanished on her watch. In that time we`ve heard a slew of stunning claims against this woman. In court documents, her husband claims cops told him Terri tried to hire a hit man to murder him. Terri`s also accused of having an affair with her husband`s high school friend during the very time her entire community was desperately searching for Kyron.
But tonight, her lawyer says this is all one giant witch hunt. And get this: she is blaming the media.
Terri was the very last person to see Kyron, but not been named a suspect. The boy`s biological mom says she has no doubt that Terri is involved in the boy`s disappearance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON`S MOTHER: I`ve known her a long time. I know she`s lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now Terri and her estranged husband are battling over the family home. Kaine, that`s Kyron`s dad, moved out about two weeks ago with their young daughter. And now he wants Terri to move out of the house so he and that little girl can move back in. Terri`s response: show me the money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN TILKIN, REPORTER, KATU: We`ve learned that Terri Horman is asking for money to be paid by Kaine Horman before she will move out of -- move out of her house. Kaine Horman us saying, "I`m not going to give you anything unless you start talking."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the midst of this bizarre family feud there is still a little boy who vanished seemingly into thin air. Are cops any closer to finding precious Kyron Horman?
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, but first to investigative journalist Michelle Sigona.
Michelle, what is the very latest?
MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, Jane, Kaine does want Terri ejected from the family home by tomorrow, but her lawyer says that she needs more time. So that`s really the issue that`s going on here. There is a court hearing today to determine what will happen to that family home and who needs to move out and who needs to move back in.
Also Kaine wants their daughter to be able to get back to a normal life. He wants to move on to work, slowly but surely. He also wants to be able to stock the refrigerator and get his daughter back on a normal schedule and get Kyron`s room and everything ready and prepared for when he does come home.
Also, Terri`s lawyer says, as you mentioned, she`s having a hard time finding a place to live and that she is a victim of a media witch-hunt. In addition, the sheriff`s department has come out to ask the media if they have any interviews with anyone at -- that claims to maybe have seen Kyron after 8:45 a.m. on June the 4th, that they would like for those tapes to be turned over to them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you got right to my big issue, and it`s directed right at Terri`s lawyer. Don`t blame the messenger.
Now this attorney says the whole case has become a witch hunt, and it`s all because of a media frenzy. A witch-hunt, really? Well, let`s recap the list of purported allegations against Terri.
Her husband says she failed two polygraph exams. Her husband says cops told him she tried to hire a hit man to murder her husband. Kaine says she planned to abduct their daughter, Kiara, from a daycare center at his gym after she left -- after he left the home with the child.
And then there`s the alleged cheating. Her husband says cops told him they have hundreds of text messages and graphic sexual photos that Terri exchanged with a guy named Michael Cook after Kyron vanished, while everyone else was looking for the child.
You know, Ryan Smith, isn`t the media just reporting allegations that were made in court documents in the hopes of solving this tragic mystery?
RYAN SMITH: Absolutely. And that`s why you need the media in these cases. Now, I know we`re all members of the media. But you know what? Here`s the thing.
First of all, by having these documents come out, if Terri knows something, this tightens the screws on her. Now you`ve got these allegations out there in public. You have even more of an incentive to share whatever it is that you know about Kyron`s disappearance.
The other thing is remember we`re looking for Kyron. Everyone out there is trying to find him. The more exposure that happens here, the better the chances to find him and get him home safely. The media is helping not hurting.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jeff Brown, you`re shaking your head.
JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it is a witch-hunt. Come on. We don`t have any facts to support any of these accusation. Desiree says, "I have no doubt." Maybe she has no doubt, but please give me a fact as to why I`m supposed to believe she has no doubt. There are no facts to support any of this. It`s just accusations, and it`s really coming from Kaine himself as well as Desiree.
But everybody wants to say she`s the prime suspect or she`s -- it`s suspicious. But nobody is giving me any facts. And I think we do need to hold back and say, "Wait a second. Let`s not judge this case and say she has a duty to tell where the kid is." We don`t know that she took the kid. There`s no facts to suggest that did.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that you`re making a very good point. And I`d like to bring Wendy Murphy in this. It seems like police want to have it both ways. They keep purportedly leaking things to Kyron`s dad. And he puts them in court documents and files those court documents, and then we report on them.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But they haven`t taken any action themselves to even call her a person of interest.
MURPHY: Yes, yes. Yes, you know, look, defense attorneys do these document dumps all the time when they want to distort the public opinion in their direction. So let`s not whine too much on her behalf. All right?
It may not a witch-hunt. I`d call it more of a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hunt, if you know what I`m saying, because that`s how I see this woman. Look, whether she did something harmful to the boy or not, she knows things. She`s clearly taken the fifth; she`s lawyered up. And that makes people angry. That`s why she`s suffering pressure.
BROWN: What else is she supposed to say?
MURPHY: I don`t care what we call it. I say squeeze this woman until she talks because a child is missing. I don`t care if they do waterboarding. If it was my kid I would say do waterboarding.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time or I`m going to bring out the big gavel. OK, Jeff Brown.
BROWN: Maybe there`s nothing else to say. She`s told everybody what happened. She dropped him off at the science fair and she left at 8:45. You can`t do anything more than that if that`s the truth.
MURPHY: Then why is she taking the fifth?
BROWN: Because that`s all she can say if she`s...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guys, please.
BROWN: Because she`s still being looked at as a suspect, even though she`s told them that.
MURPHY: Do you see what you just did, though, Jeff? She`s got nothing else to say, but she`s hiding behind the Fifth Amendment. That isn`t exactly...
BROWN: She`s not hiding. She has nothing else to say. How long are you going to keep calling her a suspect?
MURPHY: Then she doesn`t have to take the fifth. Then she doesn`t have to invoke her Fifth Amendment rights.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hold, hold, hold. Order in the studios.
BROWN: The studios.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s -- here`s another problem. Kaine filed a contempt of court claim against Terri that says she showed a sealed restraining order to her guy pal, Michael Cook. Kaine says Terri let Michael take pictures of the document and he purportedly Google searched a location where Kaine had gone with his child to live in privacy, given everything that`s gone down.
Now the contempt of court hearing is scheduled for September 21. That`s more than two months away. Am I missing something, Pat Brown? If cops want to put the squeeze on Terri, and get her to spill, why not hold a contempt of court hearing right now and then stick her in the slammer if she did that? That would put the squeeze. Why wait two months to hold this crucial hearing?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, you know, all I can guess is that they have some plan, some real good plan of action. Maybe they just want to get a little bit more information, have her out there, maybe tripping over herself.
Because she`s shown two -- two traits of psychopathy. One is to not realize what her actions look like to other people. So for your action there`s going to be a reaction. She doesn`t seem to get the reaction part.
And not taking responsibility for your behavior. She`s done nothing like a normal parent. She hasn`t just focused on Kyron, Kyron, Kyron, like every parent would and really nothing else matters. She`s focused on herself, a very narcissistic trait. It`s all about me and what I want to do with my life and how I want to move on. And that is maybe they want to get her to trip up a little bit more.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Deborah -- Deborah, North Carolina, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Yes. Hi, Jane, how are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi, how are you doing?
CALLER: Good. I`m glad I got to talk to you.
My question is, I was wondering. They were saying this lady, she started having this affair right after the little boy went missing.
CALLER: Well, that doesn`t sound right, so I`m wondering if she hurt the baby. Usually, somebody that goes into post -- what is it, postpartum depression after having a baby?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, give us the timeline briefly, Michelle. Michael Cook is essentially exonerated of anything except for maybe bad judgment, because he didn`t really get involved with her until after Kyron vanished.
SIGONA: Yes, right. You`re exactly right. And when I spoke to Michael Cook he said that he did not have any contact, personal contact with the family until after Kyron went missing. And then he and some other friends had stepped up to the plate to help out.
And allegedly, the sexting, the exchange of a sexual graphic nature from cell phone to cell phone, happened on or after June the 30th, up until, obviously, early parts of July when investigators found out about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, on the other side of the break, stay with us because we`re going to psychoanalyze this woman, Terri. More on this desperate, complicated search.
Plus, a beautiful 14-year-old girl brutally murdered, stabbed to death. It`s a hideous killing. And guess what? It could have been prevented easily.
But first, are cops turning up the heat on Kyron`s step-mom?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COOK, HIGH SCHOOL FRIEND OF KAINE HORMAN: It`s only reasonable to assume that people would speculate and become suspicious of Terri, but it doesn`t mean that she had anything to do with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILKIN: Do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey.
TILKIN: Terri, do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look, you`re on private property.
TILKIN: Desiree and your are saying that you know where Kyron is. Do you know? Can you tell the world something? Can you please tell the world something?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was an intrepid reporter trying to get some information out of the woman with the red hair, Kyron Horman`s step-mom, Terri, who is really the focus of so many questions tonight as this little boy disappeared on her watch.
Meantime search teams have returned to the area near Kyron`s school. They did that this past week. Published reports say investigators were looking for a family. Apparently, they were following up on a tip, asking people have you seen such and such family?
Meanwhile Kyron`s parents are clinging to their belief that this little boy is still alive.
So Pat Brown, is it possible Terri handed Kyron off to some other family? Maybe she didn`t want to harm him but just get him out of her life?
BROWN: I sincerely doubt it. I just don`t see her doing that. That means other people have to be involved that can come back and rat you out.
And it`s true that she had the alleged hit on her husband. We see that she has a violent tendency, as well. My belief is that no, she would be more likely to simply eliminate somebody who was causing her problems or eliminate somebody to get attention, either way. But I -- I don`t hold out a lot of hope at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s get to the psychological aspect. Police reportedly believe that Terri Horman made, quote, "sexual overtures" to both the would-be hit man and to her alleged lover, Michael Cook.
Cops also say Terri sent hundreds of texts and graphic sexual photos of herself in various states of undress -- graphic -- to Michael Cook, who admits inappropriate communication but claims they never actually had sex.
And so my question to Wendy Murphy -- you`ve covered so many of these kinds of stories, been a prosecutor -- is it possible that Terri was unhappy in her marriage, because she wasn`t getting the attention and adulation that she used to get -- take a look at her right there -- when she was greased up and buffed out and a very stunning body builder? Could it be that, when she was getting her needs met, she didn`t mind caring for Kyron? But when the attention waned...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... when she lost her physique, when her relationship with Kaine`s [SIC] dad went sour, she began to resent caring for his child? Not hers but his?
MURPHY: You know, Jane, you should have your -- your should have your Ph.D. I thin that makes perfect sense. If she liked how her body was when it was buff and she looked good. I mean, that was a tight body. Not my style. But if she didn`t like that she then apparently became flabby, that could absolutely explain a lot of sadness. It`s too bad that that`s how she values herself.
You know, there`s another reason she might have been sending these sexual things back and forth to those guys in particular. And it could be that`s her payment. They maybe said, "We`ll be glad to do this for you or that for you, but you`re going to pay us."
And she said, "I haven`t got cash, but I`ve got a picture of my crotch."
And you know, I`m just -- I thinking very creatively. What would a prosecutor make of these things? If they really weren`t sexually involved, what is she doing? You know, maybe the guys see some value in that. I don`t know. It`s very creepy. I have not had a case quite like this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Wendy, you have a way with words. And again, those two gentlemen -- and I`ll call them gentlemen -- they have not been charged with anything, and maybe they didn`t say, "Yes, I`ll do something if you show me your crotch."
Peggy, Missouri, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: A little bit off target from what you were asking about, but it has to do with the oldest child that she has. There hasn`t been anything said about him. And the timeline when he left, was he evolved with Kyron? Was there some difficulties between him and the boy? Because sometimes the mother will take a different stance when she`s protecting one child.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Michelle Sigona, take it away.
SIGONA: Well, reportedly, and, again this child is a minor, so we don`t really know that much about him, and he doesn`t appear to have much going on with this particular situation. But it`s a good question.
Apparently, he did move out early on. And at this time, from the last that I learned and the last that I heard, that he is back with his father and that they`re trying to get back to some sort of normal life. And his father is just trying to kind of advance his son forward and trying to keep him out of this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it does seem that everybody is fleeing this house like it`s burning down. And I think that`s pretty fascinating. You see the older kid leave, and then Kyron disappears. And now Kaine and his baby daughter take off.
SIGONA: And also Desiree spoke out and said that, you know, Kyron had said recently before he went missing that...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to get to that right now. Was Kyron trying to tell his family something before he disappeared, just as Michelle Sigona referred to? Listen to his own mother, Desiree Young, on the "The Today Show."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Kyron became increasingly unhappy about not spending time with me. He wanted to come and live with us. Several times he would break down and just sob, because he wanted to stay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ryan Smith, as host of "In Session", you covered so many of these gruesome cases. Is there often a foreshadowing of trouble to come as we look back?
SMITH: Yes, sometimes there is. And I want to be balanced here. On the one hand, we know that sometimes kids can have responses or reactions to parents, particularly when its step-parents, to say, "You know what? I feel uncomfortable. I don`t want to be here."
But I`ve got to tell you, Jane, we`ve covered a lot of cases where it has happened. You hear a child complaining and then next thing you know they end up disappearing.
But at the same time, remember she`s not a suspect. She hasn`t been charged here. So I think what really is happening here is her suspect judgment is really coming back to get her. If what we believe in the accusations of Kaine are true: the attempt, the sharing of the restraining order, all of these things, not to mention the potential abduction of the other younger child is very scary for everyone involved. So you have to question it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. I mean...
SMITH: You can`t let her off the hook.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. I mean, you cannot -- a team of Hollywood script writers could not come up with this much bizarre behavior in this short time span, if they were working overnight at Paramount Studios.
All right. Fantastic panel, thank you so much.
Coming up the Mel-o-drama continues. Has Mel Gibson gone off the deep end? Tonight, new questions surround his girlfriend`s abuse allegations. We`ll get into it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just 11 months out of prison and a convicted sex offender is charged with gruesomely murdering a 14-year-old girl. Why do we keep letting these sex offenders out?
Cops say last week 35-year-old Tushon Brown left the Pennsylvania home he shared with his wife and her three kids in search of sex. That`s when he had a chance encounter with 14-year-old girl Lauren Deis, seen here in her Facebook picture, and allegedly offered her 200 bucks for sex.
Police say the pair went to his house, and he gave her the money as promised, but after they had sex he took the money back, telling her she was not worth the $200. That`s when things allegedly turned violent.
With the very latest on this truly sick story, Jill King Greenwood, a reporter with the "Pittsburgh Tribune-Review."
Jill, thanks for joining us. Give us some perspective on this horror story.
JILL KING GREENWOOD, REPORTER, "PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE": Well, when the Pittsburgh detectives went down to North Carolina to interview him when he was in custody down there, he gave up a lot of details.
What he says is that he left his home looking for sex, went a couple of weeks away to a high school, saw Lauren standing outside at a convenience store, struck up a conversation with her, and offered to pay her $200 for sex.
They went back to his marital home. His wife and her children were not there. They went up to the second -- second floor bedroom, had sex. He paid her, said she wasn`t worth it, went to take it back. And he says she attacked him with a kitchen knife that was in the bedroom.
A struggle ensued. He threw a computer desk at her at one point. He got control of the knife, and then he stabbed her in the stomach. Continued to struggle and he says then he stabbed her in the throat and made sure she was dead, dragged her corpse to the basement, had sex with her again. And...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When she was dead. The dead body. Had sex with the dead body.
GREENWOOD: According to him in the criminal complaint. He had sex with her when she was dead and then tried to cut one of her legs off to better fit her into a clothing bin and was unsuccessful, so he just threw her body in a basement closet, and it remained there for six days.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know -- I don`t know how many times I can hear details like this. This is -- I mean, seriously -- we`ll need after care ourselves for having to report on these things.
Cops arrested Brown on a parole violation from his previous sexual assault conviction. In 2002 Brown pleaded guilty to rape and ten other charges. He was sentenced to 7 to 15 years in prison. He only served the minimum 7. Less than a year after he gets out, he allegedly does this to this 14-year-old girl.
Wendy, how many times do we have to see this sick pattern?
MURPHY: You know, I -- sometimes I just don`t even have words. I mean, I can`t even envision a phrase to describe how I feel about this case, because this is the sort of monster who I guarantee you we are going to find out they knew that he was extremely dangerous, that he would do this again, that he had the capacity to kill. And they let him out early and gave him a deep discount on his first punishment and let him move within a woman with three kids. I wonder how they`re doing. I hope somebody is checking.
This kind of story is why people are up in arms across this country. It`s why your coverage of violence against women and children is so important. We don`t value children. And the story about this girl`s life and how she even ended up with him is part of the package in this. Why was she there?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the war on women. This is the war on women. And it could have been avoided, if they kept this guy behind bars. They didn`t do it. Why not?
Up next, Erin Andrews secretly videotaped naked. Inside...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need the American people to hear us. We need the people of Louisiana and the Gulf of Mexico to get up on your feet and walk to the beach. We need you to clean this mess up. We need the dispersants to stop. We need food, doctors. We need economy help.
That`s fine if you don`t want us to drill, build us a solar plant. I`ll put in to work in a solar plant next work. I`ll put in to work tomorrow. But there`s nothing here for us.
We have to pay our bills. You guys don`t understand how important this is not just to my family, to all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cherry Foytlin, yes we do here on ISSUES understands how important that is. Thank you for sending in your ISSUES rant.
Now it`s your turn at home. Are you outraged about an issue you see on this show. Send us a video rant. It can be about this or any story that gets your blood boiling.
Send your ISSUES rant to Jane@CNN.com. Please make it 30 seconds or less. We really want to hear from so send them in and we`ll air the most passionate ones live.
All right. Tonight, ESPN`s Erin Andrews who was stalked by a creepy peeping tom is now suing her stalker. But he`s not the only one she`s going after, not by a long shot.
The TV sports beauty who recently appeared on ABC`s "Dancing with the Stars" claims a pervert stalker inflicted emotional distress when he video-taped her naked through hotel room peep holes. He allegedly even tried to sell those videos to TMZ last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS, ESPN: This really gets worse. He didn`t do this to one person. He did this to many people.
So what happens after the videotaping? What happened if I walked out of my hotel room and I`d seen him there? Was he going to do something?
Yes I think he`s a sexual predator. I think he should be classified as one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Barrett an insurance company executive, that`s who she was talking about, was indeed ordered to register as a sex offender. A judge also sentenced him to the slammer for 2 1/2 years after the divorced dad pleaded guilty.
Now Andrews wants some personal payback. She`s suing the deviant dad and the two major hotel chains where the secret taping went down for invasion of privacy. But will this just expose her even more?
Straight tout my fantastic and very feisty expert panel: Jeff Brown, a defense attorney; Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor; and Amy Palmer, senior editor at "In Touch Weekly".
Amy, what is the very latest?
AMY PALMER, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, the latest is that Erin Andrews has filed this lawsuit. And you know what I say, Jane? Good for her. She`s standing up for millions of women who are working, who go and check into hotel rooms. And if the hotel does not have proper security these women could be actually victimized.
So you know what? Good for Erin Andrews for being a celebrity and using that celebrity for good.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you 100 percent. While Erin was a respected sports journalist beforehand she became really a household name in the wake of this scandal, let`s face it. Then she rose on to actual stardom on ABC`s "Dancing with the Stars".
And just recently she re-signed with ESPN and she got a deal with "Good Morning America". She`s on top of the world.
My big issue: did Erin turn lemons into lemonades? Look, if she took a bad situation where she was violated and she made it work for her, I say, "Good for her." She`s not the one who started all this. Plus, she can still argue that she has a valid claim of invasion of privacy and emotionally distress. Jeff?
JEFF BROWN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s hard to argue that she`s emotionally distressed when she`s getting all this fame and publicity. And it looks like there`s nothing bothering her.
But come on, we`re saying that the hotel did something wrong? That`s ridiculous and there`s nothing but publicity it for her. The hotel didn`t do anything wrong. If she wants to say that a hotel can`t tell somebody who their guest is, then Jane when you come to Tampa, I can`t call the hotel because if I did and they said, "I`ll connect you to the room" --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. When I come to Tampa you cannot call the hotel and find out where I`m staying.
BROWN: Nobody can call you then. Nobody can call can I speak to the room with Jane Velez-Mitchell because if they say yes and connect you they are affirming that you`re at the hotel. It`s ridiculous. There`s no negligence on the hotel`s part. It`s just publicity and it`s going to get thrown out as far as the hotel goes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me spell it out here. What her -- in her lawsuit against several hotels where she was secretly stalked and secretly video- taped naked, Erin claims the hotels confirmed she intended to register as a guest. They released her room number without her consent and they gave the stalker an adjacent room.
Now HLN reached out for comment to the hotels as well as the rep for the stalker she is suing. We did not hear back before deadline.
Wendy Murphy, isn`t Erin doing everyone a favor here by forcing the hospitality industry to get more vigilant about privacy?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes and they will. I guarantee it. And the insurance companies will make them do a better job.
You know Jeff has a good argument that there are some things you can`t control. But it wasn`t just that as we probably know happens somebody makes a call can I please talk to Jane Velez-Mitchell and they`d like connect you through. If I said you could give me the number of her room they would say no.
That`s the theory of her case. You`re not supposed to give out the room number much less put the guy in the room next to her. That`s why she`s going to win.
I don`t know that she`s going to win a ton of money because the hotels are going to say, "Yes a lot of harm it did her." She became a zillionaire, instead of a more lowly ESPN reporter. I think she actually will win. I just don`t think she`ll win a ton of money because she actually has gained a lot of sympathy and fame from the whole thing.
BROWN: It`s going to get bounced on a summary judgment in favor of the hotels. And here`s the reason why. It`s because when he checked in, allegedly when he would go to the hotels he would tell them that he`s either a friend of hers or he`s working with her, so they don`t know that that`s not true. You can`t impose a duty on the hotel to have to sit back and screen everybody who says, "So, you say you know Jane. How do you know Jane?" That`s impossible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you know me? Really?
BROWN: They`re not going to be able to do that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me give you an example. I`m a little disorganized sometimes and I always lose my room keys, the pass keys and I always go to the front desk and I say -- this is to every hotel, no particular chain I`m talking about. I always say I lost my key and they just give me another one. They don`t ask any questions. That`s the kind stuff that`s going to have to change in the wake of this.
MURPHY: That`s right. Absolutely. And it should.
BROWN: You`ll never be able to call a hotel then.
PALMER: Yes. But I also think in the world of celebrity today where everyone is twittering and Facebook -- Facebooking -- privacy is a huge issue because celebrities are so much more accessible. So now the culture has to adhere to this new technology burst where celebrities are saying hey I`m in Tampa this weekend, and every stalker could come there.
So I think that it`s a responsibility for hotel or for perhaps a network to protect their talent and say, ok, these are the people who are approved to be next to this anchor or this celebrity.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I agree with you.
Now, let`s go to the next issue and that`s the sexuality issue. Erin caused a huge stir when she appeared on "Dancing with the Stars" in a sexy, provocative costume. The next day, Erin and her outfit where a hot on ABC`s "The View". Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELISABETH HASSELBECK, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": She`s been wearing next to nothing. Ok. So she`s coming in and I think in light of what happened and as illegal and as inexcusable as it was for that guy to go in and try to peep in on her in her hotel room, in some way if I`m him I`m like man I just could have waited 12 weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And of course, she`s wearing like a strapless ensemble while she`s making these comments. I love all those guys on "The View" but I have to say the next day Elisabeth made a tearful apology.
And we can also say that "New York Daily News" columnist, Joanna Malloy, had the lashed out at Erin for allegedly playing up her sexuality.
Now, to this I say, as a woman so what? If you`re sexy, you`re sexy. That`s who you are. Are you supposed to go around looking dowdy and ugly just to reassure men who may be insecure? I mean, does this mean because she`s a sexy woman, she`s not supposed to be able to get naked in her own hotel room. How absurd is that, Wendy Murphy?
MURPHY: Well, you just made exactly the point. The point is I can be sexy or not. But I get to decide who gets to look at my parts. And if I want to walk around tarted up outside, obviously I`ve made a decision to let people view me in a very sexual say.
What I do in my hotel room, whether I`m naked or fully clothed --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know if I want to know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask this quick question to Amy Palmer. I think the big problem is that Erin is not a stereotypical victim. She`s kind of turned the tables and seized the power and that makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
BROWN: It`s not making anybody uncomfortable. It`s a wrong lawsuit.
PALMER: No I think she`s great. I think that she really went through a hard time. What did she do? She went on "Dancing with the Stars" and she showed up and she had a great time and she just really showed America like listen I went through a tough time but I`m here to stay.
BROWN: Then why file the lawsuit. You`re now claiming that you aren`t having a good time and everything is bothering you and it`s all because of this.
PALMER: Yes but Jeff, what is she supposed to do? Is she supposed to be at home cowering?
BROWN: No. Move on. Move on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait. The biggest -- thank you we`re out of time.
Next Mel Gibson`s alleged rant ripping through Hollywood. Tonight, new questions about his ex-girlfriend`s abuse allegation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people are like -- people are going to welcome you back and other people are going to be like he should never come back.
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because of what happened before.
GIBSON: What happened before?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remarks that were attributed to you.
GIBSON: That were attributed to me that I didn`t necessarily make. But -- and I gather you have a dog in this fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dramatic developments in the Mel meltdown aftermath. Mel`s custody arrangement, are you sitting down, stands. Even as a stunning new photo hits the Internet showing Mel Gibson`s ex, Oksana Grigorieva with her two front veneers broken and jagged.
The photo is raising a ton of questions about Oksana`s story. Does it prove domestic abuse or does it poke holes in Oksana`s story. Oksana is pointing the finger straight at Mel, accusing him of hitting her in the face while she was holding their 8-month-old baby in her arms.
Listen to this from Radar Online.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You almost killed us, did you forget?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last three years has been a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gravy train for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were hitting a woman with a child in her hands. You. What kind of a man is that hitting a woman when she is holding a child in her hands? Breaking her teeth twice in her face. What kind of man is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh you are all angry now. You know what you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re going to get this you know what --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deserved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But is Oksana as innocent as she seems. TMZ now reporting law enforcement sources are skeptical about the picture. They say it`s not consistent with being punched in the face. And guess what? TMZ says Oksana`s dentist agrees.
Plus, did Oksana record these conversations for safety as she claims or for cold hard cash. TMZ reports she allegedly used the tapes as blackmail and tried to extort more than $10 million from Mel.
Now we are reaching out to all of the attorneys involved. We have not heard back.
Also is Mel Gibson broke? We have some more shocking new audiotapes.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: former prosecutor, Wendy Murphy; interventionist, Ken Seeley -- we need you tonight, my friend. And we begin with Mike Walter managing editor for TMZ.
TMZ -- all over the story, Mike, what is the very latest?
MIKE WALTERS, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ: Well, Jane, I don`t think it`s a question that Mel Gibson is a bad human being. Everybody knows that. But is he a criminal? And it looks like right now we`re being told from law enforcement sources that there are some holes in this criminal -- in this story and the case.
Is Mel Gibson a wife beater or not, and what it looks like at least to some law enforcement as the picture she`s taken about getting punched in the face and her teeth breaking are actually either doctored or not actually a punch in face.
Now, think you about it. If you get punched in the face and you break teeth you`re going to have swollen lips, you`re going to have cuts on your face. And we`re told the dentist and what he has in his x-rays and photos is not that, there`s just two small bites on the bottom lip and that`s it and some bruising on the temple.
So it really doesn`t look like she got punched in the face. So this is really going to put holes in the face.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes but that -- that unmistakable voice, if it is Mel Gibson, my, gosh.
Today TMZ reports Mel Gibson was allowed to keep the custody arrangement that`s already in place for his 8-month-old baby daughter Lucia. It will stay as is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mel is allowed to see the baby during the day and have her stay over at night at his house once a week.
Wendy Murphy, you`re the former prosecutor. Given the audiotapes, how is it possible that he was granted the same custody if the judge heard these tapes? What does that say about their validity?
MURPHY: Well, I`ll tell you. No, I don`t think it`s a comment on their validity at all. I don`t think there`s a big dispute whether he is the voice on that tape. People basically think it is. And I -- and I think they are authentic.
And basically he admitted punching her in the face and cracking her teeth. So I don`t care that the photos aren`t exactly what some people think they should reflect.
Here is why I`m not sure the judge did the wrong thing. Supposedly she gets punched in the mouth and her teeth break and months later she signs a document agreeing that he should have joint custody of this baby.
So, if I`m the judge, I`m going to say to myself, now wait a minute. If you were so scared and you think he`s an unfit parent after that you sign this document saying he`s a fit parent and should have shared custody? That`s the thing that I think would bother the judge and these claims about money.
She didn`t tell the story and that maybe she kept them quiet in exchange for some bump up in the -- whatever that custody deal was. That makes me uncomfortable. Judges don`t like it when it`s all about money and secrecy and payoffs and extortion. It makes judges very upset.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Mel Gibson strapped for cash?
In a newly-released clip from Radar Online, the man Oksana says is Mel Gibson shouts out about being broke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You wanted that dress. I can`t believe you asked for that. And the tickets in the Lakers box I got rid of the box and now nobody gets tickets because of you. I had to sell the mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is it because of me? Why is it because of me? What kind of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I sold them because of you. I don`t have any (EXPLETIVE DELETED) money. The box is gone because of you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not because of me. Because you have to feed an army. Why is it because of me? What kind of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I spend too much (EXPLETIVE DELETED) money on you. And my wife knows it`s you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How much money do you spend on me? You don`t spend more money on me than on anybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I spent more than $5 million on you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Walters, what do we know about Mel`s money situation? Didn`t he make something like $600 million on "Passion of Christ"? How in God`s name can he be broke?
WALTERS: He`s not broke; 100 percent not broke, this guy is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. But you know, if you listen to those tapes I think what Mel was trying to say is and you can kind of feel it when he`s talking because he`s that angry that he feels duped by this woman. He feels that obviously something had to do with money.
Now, we were told and remember, this is when these were taped, these tapes were taped were told that she extorted, allegedly tried over $10 million from Mel Gibson for these tapes.
So there`s a lot of financial stuff going on here. But, no I don`t believe he`s broke.
But one interesting real quick Jane is that, she was photographed 11 days after this alleged attack at the Golden Globes with Mel Gibson. This -- some of this doesn`t make sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wait a second.
WALTERS: This doesn`t make sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s interesting. She was photographed 11 days after this alleged incident at the Golden Globes --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- with Mel Gibson.
WALTERS: Smiling and holding his hand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, I want to bring in --
MURPHY: Yes, but come on, come on O.J. -- O.J. Simpson`s -- O.J. Simpson`s wife went to things after he beat the hell out of her too and nobody really doubts that there was abuse. So let`s not use that against her. Women do stay for reasons we wish they wouldn`t but they do stay. And it doesn`t mean they are not telling the truth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ken Seeley, an interventionist --
KEN SEELEY, INTERVENTIONIST: Sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- you`ve watched this whole story explode over the last few days.
I`m a recovering alcoholic, Mel has admitted to having a problem, I know if I don`t work my program, my personality changes. Do you think this is sort of either alcoholism or being on a dry drunk?
SEELEY: Yes. Jane, I just look at this as, you know, what is she really trying to accomplish because I`ve had family members that approached me and have evidence like that and say we want them to get help because we love them. And if they choose not to get help we have this to get them into treatment. We will go public with this information.
But to just throw it out there and say, you know, now the reports are that she wants money or she`s going to put it out there, it just sounds a little fishy to me. I mean yes, he is a sick individual; he may need treatment, he may need more help. But it just sounds a little too fishy for me to go and believe the whole thing because --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All I`m saying is, that people are saying is he bipolar, is he this, is he that. And I know he`s admitted to having a drinking problem. When you don`t work your recovery program and you are an alcoholic, this is how you turn out. This is what you turn into, a raving maniac. That`s the disease.
SEELEY: Especially when someone is pushing your buttons.
Our country is addicted to oil. We`re going to talk about that coming up next.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s day 84, outrage continues tonight along the Gulf Coast and throughout the country over the out-of-control oil spill; frustration boiling over New Orleans at a hearing on the BP spill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we have security escort this person out, please?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No right investigating crimes of their own making. Say that again, revolution newspaper. It`s a capitalist oil spill. BP and the government have been looking out for their own interests.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I don`t think he should have been thrown out. He has a point.
There`s a new show pushing clean energy alternatives. It`s the amazing special "Powering the Future" on the Discovery Channel this Saturday. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is radical, radical, radical innovation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Save the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are thrilled to have the host of that show on ISSUES tonight. Welcome Dr. Sanjayan.
How do we get out of this mess, doctor? How does America kick its addiction to oil-based products like this, plastic bottles and plastic bags? How do we kick our addiction to oil?
DR. M.A. SANJAYAN, LEAD SCIENTIST, THE NATURE CONSERVANCY: Well, it`s like any other addiction, you just basically have to hit rock bottom and you have to get informed.
This show tells you what happen if you do hit rock bottom. But more importantly, it informs you so you can take action and do something about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, America has to start spending money on clean energy research. And guess what -- at home, if you think we`re doing enough -- uh-uh -- China, South Korea and Japan plan to invest more than $500 billion in clean energy technology over the next five years.
Right now, America only spends about $5 billion on energy research and development. But we spend $30 billion on health and $80 billion on military research and development.
Doctor, why are America`s priorities so out of joint?
DR. SANJAYAN: Probably because we`ve had a really great chief access to fossil fuels which, let`s be honest, you know, packs a lot of punch. But here`s the thing, whether we like it or not, the world is changing radically. If we want to play on the global stage then we have to adapt as well. There`s no choice here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, your show says, "You won`t throw a light switch, eat a hamburger, drive a car, fly a plane or look at the New York City skyline the same way." I totally agree with you sir. That`s one of the reasons I`m a vegan to lower my carbon footprint.
DR. SANJAYAN: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I also don`t own a car. If I get one, I`m going to really try to get an electric car.
DR. SANJAYAN: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why are Americans so reluctant to make these changes?
DR. SANJAYAN: I think they really believe that it will impact their lifestyles negatively. The truth of the matter is I actually think that where we are today with energy and clean alternate energies, you really won`t actually reduce your life style, you`ll actually enhance it. I actually believe you`ll be happier if you`re more efficient.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I totally agree with you. Totally. If this Gulf oil spill isn`t hitting bottom, doctor, I don`t know what will wake America up.
DR. SANJAYAN: Well, I think you`re right there. Look, 30 percent of our fish comes from the -- from the Gulf. So it really impacts our lifestyle. Try ordering oysters today. It won`t be on the menu.
So, you know, I think this really is a wakeup call. It`s an alarm call for us to have a comprehensive energy policy. We need to have a bill that really promotes alternatives.
And let`s admit it, fossil fuels will play a part in the future but it shouldn`t pay the 70 percent, 80 percent chunk that it does play today.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. You heard the good doctor; we`ve all got to change.
You`re watching ISSUES.