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Fleeing Arizona; Sherrod Unsure about Taking USDA Job

Aired July 22, 2010 - 10:00   ET


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Juarez, Mexico, murderous drug cartels run wild, innocent people killed pretty much every day. Bodies found in the streets, buried alive in some cases, the mayor's life threatened, cops murdered, cars bombed. It's one of the most dangerous cities in the world.

And for some reason make up companies thought it would be a great theme for a new line. Can you believe this? The makeup groups Mac and Rodarte teamed up for a new line labeled Ghost Town, Juarez, Badlands and Factory, and actually used models that many say look like they're dead. Is murder beautiful? Are drug cartels attractive? As you can imagine, Hispanic activists are furious.


CARLOS QUINTANILLA, HISPANIC ACTIVIST: It's regretful that they would take the pain and suffering of a community and make profits off of it.


PHILLIPS: So now, Mac has apologized and it is going to donate part of the collection's proceeds to a charity in Juarez. That's right, part of the proceeds. Critics say that the whole line should die.

Checking our top stories now. A tropical disturbance brewing in the Atlantic and that could slow down efforts to permanently plug BP's broken well in the Gulf of Mexico. The government's point man says if the gulf gets a direct hit, oil relief operations could be set back for two weeks.

Many Americans keeping a close eye on Capitol Hill. Their mortgage payment or electric bill may be riding on the outcome. Lawmakers, in the House expected to pass an extension for jobless Americans who have seen their benefits run out. That's 2.5 million people would see their unemployment checks continue until the end of November.

Closing arguments set to begin today in the Rod Blagojevich corruption trial. The defense rested its case yesterday but it didn't call the former Illinois governor to the stand to testify.

We begin this hour though with a great melting pot boiling over. Our mission this hour, tackle the issues of a divided America, a battle over our borders. Arizona's controversial immigration law takes effect in just days, and then a war of words over race.

An ousted USDA official gets a job offer after her out of context video clip sparks a political furor, and a fight for equality of education, a diversity program aimed at integrating our students is on the chopping block in one school district. In this hour, "CNN NEWSROOM", we're asking the tough questions and facing those issues head on.

Let's start with today, it could be a pivotal day for Arizona's controversial immigration law. A federal judge will hear two legal challenges, one from some citizens, and civil rights groups who say the law promotes racial profiling. The other challenge is from the Obama administration. It's trying to block the law before it goes into effect a week from today. The law requires police to question people about their status if they have been detained for another reason and if there's reason to suspect they're in the U.S. illegally.

That means the clock is ticking for some illegal immigrants who want to get out of Arizona before that law goes into effect. For supporters of that law, that means it is already working. But others say the fallout could become costly for everyone.

CNN's Thelma Gutierrez has our story.


THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Arizona, a family is packing it up, preparing to flee the state. They asked us to call them Carlos and Samantha.

CARLOS (PH): This is the living room. This is my boys' room.

GUTIERREZ (on camera): They're all empty.

CARLOS (PH): Yes, every thing we worked for -

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): They say they were living the American dream. A house, two kids, a small jewelry business that catered to Latinos, but when his customers, many of whom were immigrants, started losing their jobs and leaving the state, his business collapsed, and now he says he, too, wants to get out before SB-1070 goes into effect.

(on camera): You loved the state?

CARLOS (PH): Arizona? Yes.


CARLOS (PH): Little by little they're pushing us out.

GUTIERREZ: They would say you're levering because you want to go. You don't have to go.

CARLOS (PH): I don't have to go, but for my family's sake.

GUTIERREZ: Your wife is undocumented? CARLOS (PH): Yes.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Carlos is a legal resident, their children are American, but he says he can't run the risk that his wife could be arrested and deported.

(on camera): You are one family who is leaving. Do you think that there are others?

CARLOS (PH): There's many. There are a lot of people that left from here as soon as it started.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Todd Landfried agrees.

TODD LANDFRIED, AZ EMPLOYERS FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM: There's an empty car dealership. This is just another strip mall in a Latino neighborhood of Mesa.

GUTIERREZ: Lanfried represents what are called Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform. He drove us through Mesa, Arizona, and pointed out what he says is the fallout from the state's tough immigration laws and a bad economy.

LANDFRIED: Any time you start running people out of a state, you make it harder for the businesses that provide services to those people, whether they're here legally or not. They're not going to be able to fill their strip malls, they're not going to be able to fill their apartment complexes.

RUSSELL PEARCE, ARIZONA STATE SENATE: What comes with that invasion of the illegal aliens is a destruction of law and a damage to the taxpayer. There's a cost to that.

GUTIERREZ: Russell Pearce is a state senator and the author of SB-1070. He also lives in Mesa, Arizona.

(on camera): Do you believe that there's any correlation between those empty businesses and Russell Pearce's law?

PEARCE: I think there's a correlation, probably. I think there's a correlation (INAUDIBLE) I think there's a correlation with the tough economy. I don't think I can take credit for all of that. I would be willing to take credit for all of that.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Critics he said were forcing people like Carlos and Samantha to self-deport.

(on camera): What do those boxes represent to you? You don't want to go?


GUTIERREZ: You don't want to go?

SAMANTHA, LEAVING ARIZONA (through translator): After 18 years of being here, we have to start all over again in another state. GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Carlos says he will remember Arizona as the state that allowed him to achieve his American dream, and, as the state that took it away.

Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Mesa, Arizona.


PHILLIPS: And that headline grabbing law man in Arizona is once again seizing the spotlight. Aricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has erected more tents at his jail and he's named it section 1070 after the new immigration law. He says it will house about 100 people who are in that country illegally and he wants to assure citizens that section 1070 has plenty of room to expand.

When voters in one Nebraska town passed a tough new law on immigration, they knew it would probably face a legal challenge. Today, the city of Fremont has it. Yesterday, a federal lawsuit was filed by a Mexican-American group that says that immigration rule should be left to the federal government. The city ordinance bans the hiring of illegal residents and event the renting of housing to them.

Shirley Sherrod has got a big decision to make, whether to take a new job with the USDA or something completely different. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack made the offer yesterday, a 180-degree turn from a couple of days ago when the department pushed her out for a racist speech that she didn't even give.

Sherrod says she isn't sure going back to the department is exactly the right thing to do, and Vilsack admits sacking Sherrod was a big mistake, a mistake because the facts were never confirmed. Maybe Vilsack should have talked to some of these people, people who are actually at that speech.


REV. RUDOLPH PORTER, ATTENDED SHERROD'S SPEECH: This banquet was honoring young people for academic excellence, and excellence in various high school endeavors, and she was inspiring young people by talking about man, humanities to man and her theme was, really, if I can help somebody, then my living will not be in vain, and she was challenging us to help somebody using our time and our talents, and she made that appeal to the young people in this small, rural town in Douglas, Georgia, that is known for tobacco, cotton, peanuts, chicken, and she was saying, you can use your talents and come back to your community and make it a better place.


PHILLIPS: Audience members said no one at that speech was applauding racism as conservative publisher Andrew Breitbart claims.

In North Carolina, outrage at a school board meeting over integration. Yes, integration.



PHILLIPS: 19 protesters including the leader of the North Carolina NAACP arrested at Wake County School headquarters. They are opposed to the school board's decision to end the district diversity policy in favor of more neighborhood oriented school zones.

Protesters call this a form of re-segregation. Those in favor of the moves say it allows the district to focus on education and not social issues. In just about 20 minutes, we'll have an in dept discussion with leaders from both sides of that debate. Here from the Wake Country school board member who crafted this controversial community neighborhood plan and the North Carolina NAACP leader who is spearheading the fight against it.

A tropical disturbance is brewing in the Atlantic and could move into the gulf. We're going to tell you how that may impact the oil spill clean-up operations.


PHILLIPS: Rough weather is definitely churning, and the oil disaster response is possibly in jeopardy. A tropical disturbance is whipping up trouble near the Bahamas and causing some serious havoc in parts of Puerto Rico. If it strengthens and stays on its current track, the system may set back efforts to permanently plug that ruptured well.

We have been hearing all along the ultimate fix to the gusher will be relief wells. BP had planned to begin installing casing or casing in the primary relief well, and that's a key component in permanently shutting down the gusher. That process has been put on hold. Instead, BP put a plug in the well where the casing is.

BP is also considering a tactic called static kill. It involves pumping mud in the broken well and that's designed to stop the oil flow before the relief well is even complete.

Let's talk more about that tropical disturbances churning up in the Atlantic. Reynolds, what do you think?

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: (INAUDIBLE) I think it will be a tropical disturbance or if they find that the wind speeds have exceeded 38 miles an hour or 39. It's no longer a tropical disturbance, it will be a tropical storm and the name will be Bonnie.

But right now, one thing that we're guaranteed of is that very deep convection, something else we've got, a lot of warm water here. Water temperatures in excess of 83 degrees, and it's almost like bath water out there and that's where the components that allows these storms to strengthen. Something else that's going to help is the lack of strong upper winds, shear. Not a lot of shear here as the storm is actually going to gain some strength because of that reason. But you also have a lot of land that it's going to interact with. So will it be just a depression or is there a chance this could actually become, maybe a tropical storm? Well, if either way, it looks like it may make its way right through parts of the straits of Florida and moving out into the Gulf of Mexico.

In fact, some of the models that we are taking a quick peek at, here they are for you, you see them all multi-colored, the forecast paths bring the storm, according to these models, into the Gulf of Mexico, but right now they all agree that the storm is expected to weaken and possibly die out altogether. The oil area that we have, of course, the latest forecast brings it right off the coast of Louisiana. So it is very possible that this system may cross right over into that region.

At a minimum, you're going to have some heavy wave action. At the same time, you're going to have strong storms that may develop out there even if it doesn't become a named storm, it can cause problems for many people that are trying to battle that oil spill. That is the latest we got here. We will should have some new information coming up close to the top of the hour, maybe a named storm before all is said and done. Back to you.

PHILLIPS: Hey, keep us informed. Thanks, Reynolds.

Well, next time your spouse forgets to take out the trash, don't be too quick to call them lazy. They may just be undiagnosed. We're checking the symptoms of an ADHD marriage.


PHILLIPS: Top stories - a horrific bus crash kills at least six people, injured another 34 in central California. Police say the Greyhound apparently struck an overturned SUV that was in the fast lane of highway 99 near Fresno. The bus apparently struck another vehicle before barreling down an embankment and slamming into a tree.

An apology and a new job offer for Shirley Sherrod. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack has apologized for forcing Sherrod to resign after hearing what turned out to be misleading comments that she made about race. He offered her a new position. Sherrod says she accepts the apology but she's not sure if she will take the job.

Secretary of state Hillary Clinton is in Vietnam today. She is raising the issue of whether Myanmar poses a threat to the stability of the region. Clinton expressed that Myanmar maybe seeking help from North Korea in developing nukes when Myanmar was formally known as Burma.


PHILLIPS: A husband who never forgets to do a chore. A wife who keeps her time perfectly budgeted, a partner who never gets distracted. Domestic bliss.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave it to beaver.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't understand how they expect you to learn this stuff about stocks and bonds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are stuck, let me give you a hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, gee, that's OK, dad, you got a lot of work of your own to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that can wait. I'm never too busy to help you fellas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The boys know that.


PHILLIPS: All right. Let's get real. For a lot of families out there, the "Leave it to Beaver" lifestyle has been left behind. Couples out there, I know what you can relate to and I know you can relate to me right now but before you throw up your hands up in frustration and think about filing those divorce papers, consider this, you could have a ADHD marriage.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Easily distracted by irrelevant stimuli.

Often impulsively abandons one task for another.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's where I left those.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A tendency to act without regard to consequences, often at the expense of personal safety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no. No, no, no!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Phil, Phil, honey, are you OK?



PHILLIPS: Well, that scene hits home for a lot of families. It's from "Modern Family," the sitcom. What a difference from "Leave it to Beaver." Well, Sari Solden is a psychotherapist and author. She joins me live from Detroit. Sari, you are about to save a lot of marriages right now. Do you realize that?

SARI SOLDEN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I hope so, just a few anyway.

PHILLIPS: Now, you're married, and you actually deal with this condition, correct?

SOLDEN: I have been married for 25 years, and I do have A.D.D., and the way that many women have wasn't diagnosed until very much later in life.

PHILLIPS: So, when, how did you realize that this was an issue in your marriage and is that what sort of triggered you to write about this?

SOLDEN: Well, what triggered me to write about it was all my experience, my 22 years of experience with men and women and their spouses as a therapist with A.D.D., but maybe I was led to it with my own personal experience with it. I know I fell in love with my husband personally because he organized my car for me. And that was it.

I think that happens to a lot of men and women with A.D.D.. Originally, they are attracted to somebody who is organized and then that works out great at first and then after a while, that spouse gets a little bit frustrated with dealing with all those tasks that he thought you're going to be splitting.

PHILLIPS: Well, of course, you know, we kind of laugh about this because we can all relate but it is a very serious problem and it's leading to a lot of breakups, unfortunately. And you know, there are a lot of misinterpretations about this, right? Because what someone might see as lazy is really another thing?

SOLDEN: And that's the problem with not getting diagnosed, especially if you have the kind of A.D.D. that a lot of women and men have. Well, you're not sitting the stereotype, not every adult has a stereotype of being hyperactive and jumping off the walls. For adults, many of whom have outgrown that hyperactivity or never had it, they are more overwhelmed and confused and distracted, and they might be doing great in other areas of their life.

That's what's so tricky. You might see you wife or your husband doing great at work where they are able to focus narrowly on their area of strength and then at home, which really pools on the A.D.D. with prioritizing, coordinating, sequencing then they fall apart. And it's hard and it's baffling to the spouse to believe that you really have something serious so they take it pretty personally.

PHILLIPS: All right. So what can we do to prove that we're not lazy or we're not being disrespectful or that we do love that person?

SOLDEN: Well, you know, I always tell my clients, in each marriage, there are two people and in an A.D.D., successful marriage is just like any successful marriage. You have to have mutual respect, good communication, and it has to be a marriage where each person's strengths are supported and each person's challenges are helped.

You know, I tell my clients that you're not the only person in a challenge with a relationship. So whether you have a spouse without A.D.D., who doesn't have any problems now, eventually everybody has some difficulties or differences or disabilities that need help. So a good marriage is where everybody gets help and support each other.

PHILLIPS: All right. Here's where we need more help. As you can imagine, our blog lit up when we asked for specific problems. We got one e-mail question. "How does the non-A.D.D. spouse deal with the A.D.D. spouse's inability to make decisions? Often the A.D.D. affects everything from making dinner to where to send those kids to school. What can I do?

SOLDEN: Well, of course, and always remember - important to remember, this is neurobiological. This is not a character defect. So whatever your spouse was dealing that was not a character problem, you can have to approach it in that way and learn what's helpful.

For a person with A.D.D., processing out loud, even though husbands don't like to hear this, processing out loud if your wife, for instance, has A.D.D., is so important. A person with A.D.D. has to talk out loud to know what she or he are thinking. So being able to feedback what you hear them saying, limit, maybe scale it down to a few good options and then work with them. But really, scale things down and help them to come up with a decision that's mutually agreeable rather than just one person taking over.

PHILLIPS: So much easier said than done. OK. Here's what Leslie asks, "I'm constantly stressed because my boyfriend of two years who has yet to be diagnosed is always have being mood swings and cannot seem to get his life together. How can we work toward making things go in the right direction for him so our relationship isn't jeopardized?

SOLDEN: First of all, it's very important to make sure that this is really A.D.D.. Of course, people who have A.D.D. can be very depressed and very anxious and have mood swings. But that can also be a sign of something else. And so the first thing you have to do is make sure what you're dealing with, so getting a diagnosis so you have a mutual understanding, a shared understanding of what the issues are, the first thing. Don't just assume it's A.D.D..

PHILLIPS: Sari Solden confirming that we can all have marital bliss. We all say that with a big smile. Sari, thanks for your time today.

SOLDEN: Thanks.

PHILLIPS: All right. Resegregation or neighborhood schooling, a controversial move by a North Carolina school district sparks protest and debate over integration.

Next, hear from the school board member who drafted the plan and an NAACP leader who is fighting against it.


PHILLIPS: Race, division, conversation. So far, this morning we have tackled the Arizona immigration debate and the latest drama swirling around Shirley Sherrod, who was forced to resign over racist comments that she didn't even make and now, race, politics and outrage in Wake County, North Carolina.

So what's the problem? A decades-old policy of integrating students has been shut down, and protesters on both sides are speaking out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep up the good work and thank you for ending forced busing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The voters who paid attention knew exactly what you were promising, and that's what they voted on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Segregation was wrong then, segregation is wrong now.


PHILLIPS: John Tedesco is the Wake County School Board member who crafted this new assignment plan. Reverend William Barber is president of the North Carolina NAACP. And Steve Perry is CNN's education contributor.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here with me. John, I want to go ahead and start with you, if you don't mind. Why would you want to terminate a diversity program? isn't it essential that we integrate our kids and that every child, no matter what their color is, should get a quality education?

JOHN TEDESCO, WAKE COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD, N.C. MEMBER, Certainly, Kyra, and we value that. Here in Wake County, we are one of the most integrated counties across America. We are a rich community in terms of our diversity. One of the most educated workforces in America. And that has helped us grow. In fact, in 2009, we were the fastest growing metropolitan area in America, and that's for a reason.

But this policy, as you noted earlier, was merely around for the last ten years. It's not something that was born out of an age of desegregation. It was an experimental policy they tried a few years ago, and quite frankly it was noble. It had noble intents --

PHILLIPS: So why get rid of it --

TEDESCO: But it didn't work.

PHILLIPS: It didn't work?

TEDESCO: It didn't serve our community the way it need to --

PHILLIPS: So, let me ask you this. What was it supposed to do, and where do you think it failed?

TEDESCO: Certainly. It failed on a couple of levels. One, it was supposed to take all of the schools in Wake county system -- we have 162 schools with 144,000 kids. It was supposed to ensure that no school would exceed a high poverty threshold. So, they set in place a goal of 40 percent high poverty, and would use the forced bucking -- busing -- mechanism to reassign children if those schools exceeded that threshold.

Unfortunately, at that time, five percent of our schools exceed that threshold, and the goal was to get it down to zero. Today, over 30 percent of our schools exceed that threshold. Over 50 of our schools exceeded a high-poverty threshold exceeded 60- , 70, some close to 80 percent. And the University of Georgia just presented an independent study that was presented at the American Educational Researchers Association in May at their national conference showed that the policy actually - by and all (ph), I think it had good intentions - actually created more segregation in an integrated community like Raleigh.

PHILLIPS: Reverend Barber, do you agree that's what has happened as this program carried on for so many years, that actually it has not met the goals it was set out to do?

REV. WILLIAM BARBER, PRESIDENT, NORTH CAROLINA NAACP: No, and John knows that's not the facts that we should be talking about. The reality is that across this nation we see resegregation. Wherever we try to use selected real estate zones rather than solid research to assign students, we end up we resegregation, from Los Angeles to New York to Pittsburgh, to Mississippi, to right here in North Carolina. And it creates pockets of poverty and misery, and we know that resegreated schools are the enemy of school excellence. Diversity is the friend to school excellence.

When the program was put in place, it was to move to try to continue to move closer to Brown and to react to all of the conservative attacks we've had to turn back our strong, constitutional high quality education for all children by ultra-conservatives and others.

What -- from 2000 to now, the reality is in a "New York Times" article and a book written by Gary Grant, "Why There Are No Bad Schools in Wake County," shows that we were at 40 percent minority students performing at great level when this program began. In four years, it was up to 80 percent. This program is nationally recognized.

PHILLIPS: So, you're saying that minority students have actually performed higher and they've done better through this integration program.

John Tedesco, what's wrong with that? I mean, we should be busing black kids into white schools, white kids into black schools. We should be working on race relations. And when you get along and do well, you can't help but have a better education and perform better in school.

TEDESCO: Well, if that was really the case, we would hold some value and reconsider the policy. But the reality is, and anyone can look at the Wake County numbers. Currently, Wake County has a 54 percent graduation rate between our economically disadvantaged children. In this generation, that's almost academic genocide. You're giving up on half of our children. You're exacerbating a school-to-prison pipeline.

And the policy was unfairly aimed at our low-income families and communities. The forced busing mechanism of the policy of the policy targeted low-income families. It gave choice to affluent, suburbanite families. If they wanted to integrate, they could fill out an application and choose a magnet school on an individual basis. While low income families were taken block by block in their neighborhood without a say in the process, taking away from their communities.

In addition, the policy had a weighted system. For some of our gifted and talented schools, the policy tracked down and out many of our children away from those schools. So, low-income families were actually given a lower rating or less of a chance to get into magnet schools. And an independent study recently at Zas (ph) this past year, one of our largest software companies, concluded that in Wake County by identifying these kids as at-risk as a subgroup, we tracked down and out 81 percent of our low-income and minority children who are actually gifted - were tracked into remedial classes.


TEDESCO: We need to give these kids --

PHILLIPS: OK, Reverend, you feel those facts are distorted.


PHILLIPS: Hold on, Reverend, there are a lot of numbers, a lot of surveys, a lot of things that you guys are citing.

Steve Perry, I want you to jump in and tell me your perception of all of this kind of on a larger scale. You were there, you observed all of this. What is your take on what's going on here? Because these programs exist all across the country, and this is the first time I've heard of a program actually being shut down.

And I should make the point for full disclosure to all three of you that I was a part of the magnet program 30-someting years ago, and it worked really well. Blacks were bussed in to white schools and whites bussed in to black schools, and everybody performed better because there was a cultural aspect of this that was inspiring for those. It wasn't easy, but it worked, and it continued on for decades after that because it was so successful.

So, Steve Perry, why are we seeing this controversy in this specific area? Is it a racist situation, or do the numbers in the studies show this is the right thing to do?

STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATIONAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well you can clearly, this is an attempt at regression. This is an attempt at going backwards. This is a generational issue. Because if you look at the protesters themselves, you see that the children actually disagree with this, both black and white. You see that the teachers, the teachers' association and the NAACP have come together to create a new dialogue.

It's sad to me because if Mr. Tedesco is saying that there are troubles -- there are challenges with the policy, then let's go back to the table and come up with some better ways to execute it that he feels will meet his needs. But sending children back to poor performing schools so you can clear your schools of any quote- unquote "problems" is not the way in which we should be dealing with children.

I'm troubled by the direction of Wake County. I'm troubled by the fact that there's an attempt here to justify this unjustifiable foolishness.

PHILLIPS: John, I can't help to notice when I look at the members of the school board, there is one black representative. I believe it's Keith Sutton, and as I watched the protest and listened to all the protesters, I saw black and white parents and students saying "don't end this program. This program has been great. I don't want to go to another school. I want to stay where I am."

And I sure saw a lot of older white protesters saying, "We don't want forced busing or this program anymore." It's kind of hard to weed through this is see if this is indeed a racist decision?

TEDESCO: Yes, well, first of all, you have to keep in mind when you're watching some of those things is that many of those people -- in fact, with the people who were arrested at Tuesday's meeting, including Mr. Barber, 80 percent of them weren't even from Wake County.

Wake County is a very integrated community. We're very proud of that integration. We're very proud of our diversity. Nobody is trying to separate our children. In fact, we've adopted a voluntary desegregation plan back in March that said that in our new plan, we would continue to use the magnet schools as schools of choice. But we wouldn't just rig it against one income or race or another. It was aimed where only low-income children didn't have a chance to get into some of those magnet schools, and by removing the SES weighting that was against those kids, now they actually have a chance.

In fact, this year, 400 additional children got into some of our best magnet schools who from low-income communities who had never a chance to get into those before because the system didn't weight their income as a factor against them.

PHILLIPS: Reverend basher, I know you have a number of thoughts here. You know, bottom line, for white and black students and Latino and Asian -- there are so many benefits to this program. What concerns you the most about it going down the drain?

BARBER: Well, give me a moment because there are so many distortions. First of all, desegregation and diversity is the law. All of the educational research says it's good. We know what makes good schools. You have to start resegregation, promote diversity, high-quality teachers, smaller classes, more teachers. Focus on math, science and reading and history. You have to have parental involvement, community involvement. You have to have equity in funding, and you have to deal with the disproportionate graduation rate and suspension rates.

This program is touted all over the country. Seventy to 85 other districts look at it. The tests scores are right.

It's not about busing. They use neighborhood schools and forced bussing as code words coming out of the 1968 Nixon campaign. George Wallace used the same thing. Ninety-nine percent of the kids in this county already go to school within ten miles. Eighty-five percent within five miles.

He says, we're not from Wake County, but this is a national issue. And ultra conservatives and ideologues -- all of his fellow comrades on the board, the five of them support vouchers are supported by ultra-conservative Republican Party. They're using that particular play book.

We came from all over because the segregationsists are coming from all over, whether it's happening in Wayne County or Halifax County or all around this country. According to the Harvard study from 2003, this a step back. It's regressive and it's wrong.

We know what makes an excellent school. They want to build fences, we want to build schools. They want to have private schools with public dollars. We're saying black and white, Latino, all different faces. Not on our dime. We are not going to be prisoners of the past. We want to move to the future. We want to see all of our children educated. We want high quality, constitutional, diverse schools for all of our children. That's what our Constitution says. That's what my faith tradition says. We're all one. And they're exactly wrong.

And in fact, they don't have a plan. They dismantled this plan without a plan. On the first day in office, they voted to dismantle this plan, following the ideological play book that they had been elected by only eight percent of the voters to engaging in. They have no plan. So, why would you dismantle a plan that has, in fact, worked, that statistics says has worked? It's not perfect, because we're infallible human beings --

PHILLIPS: Well, nothing's ever perfect -

BARBER: To try to make diversity, to try to say diversity is the enemy of school excellence and the enemy of student achievement is wrong. It's immoral. It's dangerous, and we have to stand up and fight it. And what --

PHILLIPS: Reverend, Reverend, I got to let -- I hear you and I've got to let Steve Perry have the final word here because he's bringing us more of a national perspective.

But Steve, just listening to John Tedesco and the Reverend Barber and knowing the effectiveness of this program so well, not just in this state but in other states, how can we move forward here? What's the most important point to make as we continue to follow this story?

PERRY: There have to be good ideas on both sides of the issue. And in fact, the school board has to understand that if there's an entire group of people, not just a small group who want to see this particular program reinstated. Maybe there's something to it.

Likewise, the NAACP, let's listen to what they have to say. Let's find a way to come together so the children are the ones who benefit.

This is a case of grown folks acting badly. At some point, the adults in this situation have to come together and create a policy that meet the needs of the children, not the whims of adults.


BARBER: We asked for 45 minutes to do that, Steve, so just know that. And we were not allowed. We asked three times to come to the table with the best idea. We have 100 years of experience in this issue -

TEDESCO: We asked for a conversation with them and Reverend Barber many times --

PHILLIPS: John Tedesco -- John, let me wrap it up here. John Tedesco, can we bring this back to the table? Is it worth revisiting if this program should totally be done with?

TEDESCO: We've asked Reverend Barber to sit down for a conversation many times, and he doesn't want conversation. He wants presentation.

PHILLIPS: Reverend Barber, John Tedesco, we will follow up and indeed see if you do have a conversation. Steve Perry, nice to see you involved with that as well. I tell you what, I'm a product of --

PERRY: I will gladly come down to North Carolina to do what I can to support this conversation because the conversation is need right here.

PHILLIPS: And we will follow up for sure. I got to tell you, I'm a product of the magnet schools. Let me tell you what, it's the best thing that ever happened in my life. Very tough, but it was worth it.

I appreciate all three of you. Thank you so much. We'll follow up and look forward to that meeting. John, thank you.

BARBER: Thank you.

TEDESCO: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Believe it or not, there are three million jobs waiting for the right person to walk through the door. So, where can you find one of those jobs? We're going to try to break it down for you after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Many Americans will be keeping a close eye on Capitol Hill today. Their mortgage payment or electric bill may be riding on that outcome. Lawmakers in the House are expected to pass an extension for jobless Americans who have seen their benefits run out. Two-and-a-half million people would see their unemployment checks continue until the end of November.

Meantime, jobless claims jumped last week -- 465,000 people filed for first-time unemployment benefits last week. But there are jobs out there.

Patricia Wu joins us now from New York. So, Patricia, what can we - well, I guess - can we tell people who are desperately looking for work there's good news?

PATRICIA WU, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Kyra. The Labor Department says there are 3.2 million job openings in this country but a lot of competition. Nearly five people vying for every opening.

So, who is hiring? says job listings in information technology, customer service, sales and health care are growing. The site also says hiring managers are recruiting for administrative business development, accounting and finance positions.

So, where can you find these jobs? 21 states and Washington, D.C. saw employment increase last month. And these states are really hot spots: Texas, Kentucky, Arkansas, Louisiana and North Carolina hired the most workers. In Texas, education and health services saw the most new jobs, adding 8,900 alone. So, if you're thinking of relocating to find work, those places might be worth considering, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. So, if there are 3 million job openings in this country, why is it so hard to get them?

WU: Couple of reasons. It can take three or four months for openings to translate into actual hires, according to the career Web site because H.R. departments were scaled back during the recession. At the same time, more resumes are flooding in. So, a bit of a backlog.

Also, many applicants aren't necessarily a good fit. Twenty-two percent of employers say they can't find qualified candidates to fill these openings, and you really see this in health care industry where jobs often require a lot of the training and experience.

Finally, let's not forget, budgets have been cut, so a big gap between how much somebody wants and what a company is willing to pay. Kyra?

PHILLIPS: All right. Patricia, thanks.

So, have you seen the picture? It's not from BP's command center, so we're pretty sure it's not Photoshopped. This is what happens when you get on the wrong side of the right whale.



PHILLIPS: "Home and Away," our daily tribute to our fallen heroes in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. We will tell you how can you become a part of it in a moment but first, we want to tell you about Army Private First Class Andrew Martin Ward. His friends called him Drew. Drew served with the 44th Engineer Battalion and Infantry. He was killed December 5th, 2002 in Ramadi, Iraq, by small-arms fire when his unit came under attack.

Drew was from Kirkland Washington, and his younger sister, Wanda Ward, left a simple message on the "Home and Away Web site. She says quote, "I don't know how to feel, and I don't know how to cope. I just want the world to know that I loved him." Simple and to the point. Army Private First Class Andrew Martin Ward was 25 years old.

We want to hear more stories of such sacrifice from you. Go to our Web site,, and put your service member's name in the upper right search field, pull up the profile. Add your memories and pictures, too. We'll add them to our Hall of Heroes.




PHILLIPS: Yellowstone National Park may not be known for lions, but the signs about the other wild life is clear. Don't get too close to the bison. Kathy Hayes didn't heed that warning. Take a look at what happened.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back, back, back.



PHILLIPS: Oh, yes, Hayes had her video camera rolling when she got out of her car to film a bison. Big mistake. It came after her, goring into her leg. Hayes' husband managed to scare off the animal with loud noises. Hayes says she's bruised and sore and lucky she wasn't killed.

And we continue our trip up the food chain in Indiana. A pet monkey named Eugo (ph) managed to get out of his cage, get in the house and get back in touch with his wild side. Eugo was acting more like Cujo. Jumped on one teen, scratched him up, then went after the dog. The owner got it back in the cage after about 20 minutes. Everyone's okay. The owner says "Hmm. I guess I should get a new lock for that cage."

And one more animal attack you've got to see to believe. A whale jumps out of the deep and into a sailboat. CNN's Jeanne Moos has the rest of the story.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Imagine, you're out with your boyfriend for a sail.


MOOS: When a whale about the size of your boat springs out of the ocean.

WERNER: This massive creature just going up next to the boat and smashing against the mast.

MOOS: This is the before and this was the after. Sailing school partners, Paloma Werner and Ralph Locust (ph) lived to joke about the encounter just outside Cape Town Bay in South Africa.

WERNER: But we said we had a whale of a time.

MOOS: Even if it'll cost at least 5,000 bucks to fix the 32-foot boat, the whale seemed fine afterwards, though he left some blubber on deck.

MOOS (on-camera): Were you thinking "Jaws?"

WERNER: No, not at all. I wasn't scared at all.

MOOS (voice-over): All Paloma and Ralph need is a repaired mast. The photo of the encounter was shot by a tourist within the nearby boat. It'd all been watching a whale repeatedly surfacing when suddenly it crashed the yacht. Now, it's one thing if a flying carp flies into your boat.


MOOS: Or flies directly into you. We've even seen killer whales force a penguin to jump on a boat to escape. But when it comes to the most persistent boat crasher, take a gander at this goose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my! What a crazy goose. The sucker won't leave her alone. Get. Get. That sucker's crazy! Look at that crazy sucker.

MOOS: At least the whale didn't chase the sailboat. Actually, environmental officials are checking reports that, perhaps, the sailboat was harassing the whale by being too close. Paloma says that just isn't so. They were sailing without a motor. The whale didn't hear them and simply surfaced. If he'd landed on the of deck rather than smacking the mast --

WERNER: And we would have been as dead as a pancake.

MOOS: Estimated weight of a right whale, 40 tons. All fins on deck.

WERNER: It was amazing.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --

WERNER: It was actually awesome.

MOOS: -- New York.


PHILLIPS: Well, Tony Harris, that's mild compared to the way you chase me around the NEWSROOM.



PHILLIPS: I'm running.

HARRIS: Hey, that was your Mutual of Omaha segment? Is that what that was?

PHILLIPS: Exactly.

HARRIS: Where is Stan Brock when you need him?

PHILLIPS: You should see the commercial. It's really for real.

HARRIS: Exactly.

And Stan Brock, I'm calling you later in the day.

Kyra, have a great day.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Tony.

HARRIS: Take care.