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Accused Killer Mom in Court; Teen Missing after Meeting MySpace Friend

Aired August 18, 2010 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight a desperate mother, two innocent children, and a horrifying double murder. A young woman admits to strangling her two baby boys, strapping their dead bodies into car seats, then pushing the car into the river. Tonight, ISSUES goes inside the mind of murderous mothers. What drives them to kill their innocent offspring?

And a beautiful 13-year-old girl vanishes from a birthday party. Cops in Los Angeles think she met up with someone she met on MySpace. Has the war on women claimed a new victim?

Also tonight, shocking new twists in the Mel Gibson domestic violence case. Tonight, Mel`s ex-wife now being dragged into the courtroom. Mel left his wife for the younger Oksana Grigorieva, and now Oksana wants to grill the ex on the witness stand, to ask, was Mel`s first wife abused by the Hollywood mega star?

Plus, suspicion mounts in the desperate search for a beautiful young mother, Julie Anne Gonzalez vanished without a trace five long months ago. Tonight, cops in Austin have now named her estranged husband a person of interest. Tonight, I`ll talk one on one with his lawyer.

ISSUES starts now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, stunning developments in the case of a South Carolina mother who cops say admitted she murdered her two young sons, one of whom fought for his life.

Twenty-nine-year-old ShaQuan Duley made her first court appearance today. Her family packed the courtroom, including her mother. Cops say ShaQuan fought with her mom shortly before she murdered her two young sons.

Duley, wearing a bright orange jumpsuit, walked slowly into the courtroom, holding Kleenex in her handcuffed hands. She looked down at the floor most of the time. She did answer the judge when spoken to, but very, very softly. Listen closely.




DASH: On arrest warrant M-214093, both charging you with an offense of murder. Do you understand that?

S. DULEY: Yes, sir.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here are her adorable boys, dead tonight. This is a family photo of Devean and Ja`van. Look at these precious children. Their own mother charged with their murders, suffocating them with her bare hands inside a motel room.

The sheriff says Duley confessed that, after she killed them, she strapped the two dead boys into their car seats, drove to a river, put the car in neutral, and let the car roll into the water.

Duley was out of work, out of money, apparently out of patience. But what was the breaking point? What makes a mother decide to kill her own children and think that`s the answer to her problems?

We`ve got to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight out to my fantastic panel, all women, all with very strong opinions about what happened to those two precious boys. But let`s begin with "In Session`s" Beth Karas from our sister network TruTV.

Beth, what exactly happened in court today?

BETH KARAS, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, her arraignment was technically advising her of her rights and the charges against her. She was not asked to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty. She did not do that. That will come probably at some later date.

A bond hearing will be held, maybe as early as next week. That`s what the defense is hoping for. And that will be before a different judge. The judge today is a magistrate. He is not authorized to have bond hearings in murder cases.

So the case will march on, when the defense talked to the solicitor -- that`s what they call the prosecutors in South Carolina -- and they figure out when to calendar this case for a bond hearing. Until then, she`s being held with no bail, or bond.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, 80 relatives and friends of this suspect you`re looking at there packed this courtroom. It was overflow. Duley`s cousin, Denise, says everyone in her family feels stunned and blindsided. Listen to this.


DENISE DULEY, SUSPECT`S COUSIN: I don`t know what goes on inside her home. But as far as from the outside, like, she took care of her kids.

SHANNON STAMOS, NEIGHBOR: Every time I`ve seen her, at a gas station or something, she`s had the baby with her. Really always seemed like just a good mother from what I could understand.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, this is fascinating. Here is a photo of ShaQuan Duley in better days, from the Web site Look at her. Big smile on her face. She looks happy. She`s well coifed, makeup. A dramatic difference from her mug shot. Something had to have happened way before this fight with her mother to cause her life to spin out of control the way it did.

Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, this is a dramatic difference.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. I mean, also, she`s just far more obese.

You know, I don`t know what to make of this, because these cases are hard for me to identify with. And I know that doesn`t matter, but if you`re a mom, and I have five kids, and you can`t conceive of anyone hurting a child, much less intentionally killing by strangulation two very tiny kids. I don`t know. I mean, obviously, there are mental health issues here.

But unlike Susan Smith -- and I do think there`s a bit of a difference here -- who as we know back in 1994 killed her children by pushing them into the water and letting them drown in the car, she killed them beforehand. And she killed them in a way that is particularly rageful and intense.

You know, if she thinks killing her children was going to get back at her mother, that that was some form of vengeance, you know, look, message to anyone thinking about doing that, if you`re mad at your mother, you know, slap her. Don`t kill your kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And you know, it`s pointed out, in fact, by Susan Smith`s prosecutor, if people are that desperate, how ironic is it that the mother kills the kids but doesn`t take her own life? If you`re that desperate, why not take your own life, Victoria Taft?

VICTORIA TAFT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: You know what? I don`t -- I cannot fathom anyone hurting their child. I concur with your previous guest in saying that I just don`t get it.

But I`ll tell you something else. If anybody is thinking about doing like that, go off and do something to yourself. Go off, get some help. Get somebody to watch your kids. Don`t take it out on your kids. How selfish and narcissistic is this?

There are people out there in this country, Jane, who want a child desperately, and they will take care of that child, and they will love that child. This woman did not need to do that to those kids. People like me, who have lost children, cannot even begin to fathom why someone would do that. But I can tell you one thing: I don`t have a lot of sympathy for her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my big issue tonight: dangerous dynamic. A mother-daughter relationship can be very complicated. This 29-year-old unemployed mother and her three kids lived at home with her mother. Check this out.


SHERIFF LARRY WILLIAMS, ORANGEBURG COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA: She lived in Mom`s house. She`s probably eating Mom`s food. So, I mean, she had very little to control. And what she had to control in her thoughts were her children.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, so cops say ShaQuan Duley had a big fight with her own mother shortly before she drove off to a motel with her two young sons and killed them there. The suspects mother was complaining that ShaQuan wasn`t doing enough to parent her three children.

ShaQuan also has a 5-year-old daughter who, thank God, stayed with a grandmother and wasn`t hurt. But Brenda Wade, psychologist, isn`t it a tragic irony that, by pointing out her failures as a parent, that`s apparently what triggered the worst failure of all?

BRENDA WADE, PSYCHOLOGIST: It may have been the straw that broke the camel`s back, Jane. But I don`t think it was absolutely the cause of this outburst.

I think this young woman was what a lot of women are when there are unstable families, where there aren`t two parents, there isn`t enough emotional support. She broke. And I think that break had been coming for a long time.

She was stressed, probably depressed, didn`t have enough support, and couldn`t pull her life together. And I think we see this more often than we realize in our culture.

It costs $325 billion a year, Jane, to take care of families when the families come apart. We need to address this issue. That`s why I created the Love and Money Summit to help people deal with. Because economics is part of it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, absolutely. And we need to also offer young women options.

WADE: Yes, we do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And tell them that they don`t have to have three kids if they don`t have employment. And we -- this father is MIA, we can`t find him.

WADE: Yes, that`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So we don`t know who the other parent is. He wasn`t helping, obviously.

WADE: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We also need to bring in family planning so that people aren`t put in a corner like this.

Jenny, Mississippi, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: My thought is, is that there were preexisting problems. She did do this to hurt her mother.

I was a single mother for seven years with my own two boys. My husband left to get a pack of cigarettes and never came back. I didn`t smother my children. I`m sure it takes a lot to smother a small child. What the pain they went through.


CALLER: She is, as someone said earlier, narcissistic and selfish, mean, malicious. This woman has no excuse.

I raised my boys by myself and never thought of doing this. She did this to hurt and to spite the father and also her mother, to show them that she didn`t have to put up with it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me say this. After letting her car roll into the river with her two boys already dead inside, she left the scene, walked a mile, flagged down the motorist. Here is the 911 call made by that motorist. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, yes, I`m on Shillings Bridge Road and a car ran in the pond, and it`s got kids in there. We need help fast, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What county are you in?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shillings Bridge Road, that`s the name of the road, OK. Shillings Bridge Road.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What county? We are in Orangeburg County.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, I mean, this wasn`t well thought out. She -- she said that it was an accident. And then she shows up. Her clothes aren`t wet. This isn`t somebody who thought through this. And then she confessed, according to cops.

MURPHY: So -- yes, no, obviously, although she did try to hide the bodies, she really wasn`t trying to get away with it. There`s no way she was going to get away with it. And I think she knew that.

You know what I`m wondering, because even though it`s strange, it reminds me of cases where men, after they`re told by their wives that they want a divorce, and they`re going to take the children away, the men will sometimes kill the children as a way of saying, "Oh, no, this is what -- you know, if you`re going to do that to me, this is what I`d rather do instead."

Maybe her mother threatened to take the kids away from her or call social services and she was like, "Yes, the hell you`re going to do that."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s fascinating, because I believe, for example, in the Casey Anthony case, they said that Casey had a fight with her mother, Cindy, shortly before the child disappeared, in which Cindy threatened to take the child away from her. Very interesting point.

Everybody, stay right where you are.

What possesses these mothers to kill? On the other side we`re going to talk to an expert who testified in the Andrea Yates case.

We`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Plus, a 13-year-old girl vanishes from a birthday party. Did she meet up with a stranger from MySpace? Her desperate family.

But first, we`ll go inside the minds of desperate moms. Why does it have to end in murder?


RENUKA PATEL, MANAGER, TRUMP INN: She seemed, like, strange to me, you know. Like very strange to me. She give me the $100 bill, you know. When I tried to give her the money, she just took the money. She didn`t count it. And she just ran off.




DASH: You`ve understood everything that I`ve just told you?

S. DULEY: Yes, sir.

DASH: You or your counsel have any questions you need to ask at this particular point?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No questions, your honor.

DASH: Anything from the victims or victims` advocate at this point?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, your honor.

DASH: Anything from the state?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, your honor.

DASH: With all that being said, there are no questions, ma`am. We wish you the best of luck. And we`ll see you in court when the time comes, OK? All right. Thank you and have a good day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, your honor.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: ShaQuan Duley admitted suffocating her two young sons before putting them in her car and driving the car into a river, according to police. The family now trying to raise funds for the boys` funerals, which will be on Friday.

Kate, Iowa, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Jane, thank you for taking my call.

First of all, considering that these two children are so close in age, has a psychiatrist had the opportunity to assess this woman for post-partum depression? Her affect, she just looks so flat.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Lucy Puryear, you were the defense expert, psychiatric witness on the Andrea Yates case. What do you make the case of the possibility of postpartum, given that she has an 18-month-old son who was murdered?

DR. LUCY PURYEAR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I think it`s a great question. And I do want to say about the other comments, the panelists have made, we`re all speculating about this woman`s motivation.

Certainly, there are some mothers who kill their children out of revenge. That is a category. But we don`t know that`s the case here. And what her state of mind was at the time she did this, a psychiatrist will go into the prison and interview her and try and figure that out.

It is quite possible that she`s suffering from depression. And whether it`s because of having children and it occurred post-partum or if it happened because of her economic circumstances, I don`t know. But she certainly, the pictures I`ve seen and her comments, she does appear to be like someone who might be depressed. So I think...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let...

PURYEAR: ... to judge her...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I want to take of on what you`re saying, because I`m a recovering alcoholic, and also I identify as a sugar addict. And here on ISSUES, we take a different approach. We talk about addiction. And as we`ve all learned, alcohol and drugs are not the only addictions out there.

Now, take a look at this video. Do you think that Duley has an eating disorder? Could that be a manifestation of deep-seated emotional issues that she`s trying to stuff down? And when you...

MURPHY: The lady killed her kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Carrying that weight around cannot be easy when you`re chasing three young children. So I`m talking about addiction.

Hold on a second. Don`t minimize this. Addiction to food is an addiction, because all addiction is about the same thing. It`s about stuffing unpleasant feelings and emotions.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So I`m trying to figure out what was she trying to escape?

MURPHY: She had three kids out of wedlock, for crying out loud. She doesn`t know -- the baby`s daddy is nowhere to be found after his kids are murdered. For crying out loud, she`s got bigger problems than food addictions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. It`s a manifestation is what I`m trying to say. Brenda Wade, help me out here. When somebody is...

WADE: You know...


WADE: Jane, absolutely, 100 percent, behind every addict is a colossal hole that usually points back to depression. We know the same gene that causes what we call the alcohol gene, causes depression. What you`re saying does have a scientific foundation.

And look, this woman fits the profile, I`m sorry to say. The profile of a person who`s most likely to kill her children is a single mother, who doesn`t have the support of the children`s father, who is economically disadvantaged and depressed. She`s got all four, as far as we can see, as far as we can tell.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who wants to talk? I hear Wendy. I hear Wendy.

MURPHY: Because when I hear this, the problem is, 99.9 percent of the people with that profile do not kill their children. So we have to stop talking about that as if it really matters. Because she`s...

WADE: The problem is, 99 percent of those who do kill their children fit that profile.



WADE: The flip side of that is 99 percent of those people who do kill their children have this profile. And if we scratch the surface and look deeper, and say what distinguishes those who cross the line and commit a terrible act like this, from those who don`t, there is one critical factor. And that critical factor is emotional support of some kind, is the restraining...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Wendy Murphy, your response? One at a time, please.

MURPHY: Look, it could also be that she was sick and tired of being told by her mean mother that she was a bad mother. She was sick and tired of being fat. Sick and tired of taking care of three kids with no help. And she said, "I want out of this. Bye-bye to the kids." That`s not because she...

WADE: You know, the operational word, Wendy...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. I have to see the panel.

MURPHY: Because she`s mean.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Dr. Puryear -- Dr. Puryear, I want to bring you in. OK, I would like you to weigh in on all of this. Because, I mean, to say that it`s irrelevant, I don`t buy that it`s irrelevant. It certainly is not the reason she killed. It`s almost just a manifestation that she`s got problems.

WADE: It`s a symptom.

PURYEAR: Eating disorders certainly are a symptom of a deeper problem. Absolutely. I just don`t want to get confused that that`s why she killed her children...


PURYEAR: ... because she has potentially an eating disorder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course not.

PURYEAR: But it is...

MURPHY: I didn`t say it was irrelevant. I said it`s not an excuse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Let Dr. Lucy finish.

PURYEAR: Mothers who kill their children can be anti-social criminals, yes. But there are other mothers who kill their children who have emotional psychiatric illnesses that need to be treated. And mental health care in this country is underfunded and under-available.


PURYEAR: She had maybe no place to turn to get help.


MURPHY: You know what I`m sick and tired of, Jane? I`m sick and tired of people having kids who have no business having kids. And how, whatever the reason, having children means you have...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to leave it right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A desperate search for a 13-year-old girl who disappeared in California. This is every parent`s worst nightmare: their child meets someone online and then vanishes right after.

A critical missing bulletin has been issued for Karina Valencia. This adorable teen was last seen Saturday at about 6:30 in the evening. She has not had any contact with her family since.

Pete Demetriou, field reporter for KFWB, News 980, good to see you, old buddy. Tell us exactly what happened.

PETE DEMETRIOU, REPORTER, KFWB: Jane, what we`ve got here is a young girl who`s 13 years old. Karina Valencia was at a party near her family`s home on Saturday. And then she just basically walked away from it at about 6:30 in the evening. That was the last time the family saw her.

Now, the police did an investigation, or began an investigation a couple of hours later when the family said the young girl didn`t return home. And they began to and the normal questions: did she leave with anybody, and did she use any social networking sites? That rang a bell.

MySpace is apparently -- she has an account on that, and apparently, detectives have figured out over the last couple of days that she is very, very active not only on that MySpace account, but in various networking sites. She also, believe it or not, has contacted men who are, as detectives put it to me this morning, considerably older than her. But they have basically rebuffed her approaches or advances. And there`s no indication that anyone has met her.

Now, the question is, did she meet somebody on her MySpace page? And did she decide to go off and go with him somewhere? They have done checks in and around the Sylmar area in the San Fernando Valley. They`ve even extended it up into the Palmdale area, about 30 to 40 miles away. And the LAPD has already checked some people with contacts extending all the way to Texas. So far, no leads have come back on this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We, in fact, have a Google map of the areas that they are searching. And as we look at that, I want to talk about what her older sister said happened at a party.

Her older sister said they were both at the same party when Karina asked her if she, "Would you leave with somebody you don`t know?" And the sister said absolutely not. And then, shortly thereafter, this 13-year-old girl disappeared. So what does that tell you, Pete?

DEMETRIOU: At that point, she may have found somebody or was going to meet somebody else, where the family simply wasn`t aware of it.

And frankly, Jane, this points something -- points out to something that people should really be thinking about when they have teens, when they have kids who are on the Internet, with Facebook, MySpace or anything else. Know what your kids are doing with the computer, with the Internet, with these accounts. Know who their friends are. Because if you find somebody that you`re not familiar with, that may pose a possible threat, a parent has got to interact immediately.

I don`t know if the parents were interacting with this child. But in many cases, a lot of parents I know whose children are on these social networking sites really don`t have a clue as to who their kids are talking to.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, we did some little research on that, and MySpace has a parent care team. Parents can call the parent care team at MySpace if they are seeking help about their teenager`s profile.

Can`t cops use her MySpace page to track down who exactly she was in contact with and then track those people down?

DEMETRIOU: In fact, that`s what they`ve been doing. The detectives for the last couple of days have been looking at the information on her page and have been following up various leads.

They said they talked to a number of men, as I pointed out earlier, who are considerably older than she is. And they have, quote, "rebuffed her advances" or didn`t return any requests to meet or anything else like that. So they`re able to find these people.

The question is, what information can you glean from those individuals, and what can it, hopefully, provide the detectives for information on finding this young girl?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Maybe those guys aren`t telling the truth. Maybe it was the other way around.

Pete, thank you so much. Great to see you as always.

Fast-breaking news in the Mel Gibson case. Could his ex-wife take the stand? It`s a crazy development.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shocking new twists in the Mel Gibson domestic violence case. Tonight, Mel`s ex-wife now being dragged into the courtroom. Mel left his wife for the younger Oksana Grigorieva, and now Oksana wants to grill the ex on the witness stand, to ask, was Mel`s first wife abused by the Hollywood mega star.

Plus, suspicion mounts in the desperate search for a beautiful young mother. Julie Anne Gonzalez vanished without a trace five long months ago. Tonight cops in Austin have now named her estranged husband a person of interest. Tonight I`ll talk one on one with his lawyer.

The war between Mel Gibson and his ex girlfriend, Oksana Grigorieva escalates. Now Mel`s ex-wife could be dragged into the battleground. RadarOnline reporting Oksana`s lawyers want to grill Mel`s ex-wife about whether he was violent with her during their long marriage.

Are you kidding me? Wow. That is some kick in the pants. Especially considering his ex, Robin, has stood by Mel and even said after the scandal broke he was a good father. Mel and Oksana are fighting it out over their 2-year-old baby daughter.

Just hours ago there was a secret court hearing over child support and custody. Mel did not attend and Oksana reportedly didn`t say a word going in, or coming out. She did have a few choice words about Mel at the end of last month, however.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel?

OKSANA GRIGORIEVA, MEL GIBSON`S EX-GIRLFRIEND: He`s lying. There`s no extortion and there`s no text and e-mails. He`s lying. I`m fighting for my child. He`s just a liar. It will come up in the court. Just wait.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oksana, Mel and now Mel`s loyal former wife. It is one big hot mess.

I`m taking your calls on this one, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Joining me now criminal defense attorney, Tom Kenniff; syndicated radio host Carlos Diaz; and senior editor of "In Touch Weekly" Kim Serafin.

Kim, what the heck is going on here? What`s the next shoe to drop?

KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, we`re expecting that the Los Angeles County DA`s office is going to have the case by the end of this week, at least, the Mel Gibson domestic violence portion.

Apparently the sheriff`s detectives are wrapping up the case. They`re going to be turning it over to the DA`s office. We`re still waiting about the extortion charge against Oksana. That will also go to the DA`s office soon.

And apparently according to TMZ, they`re going to look at this as kind of a package deal. They`re going to look at both of these cases and then make the decisions about both of these cases at the same time.


SERAFIN: You can probably expect something soon but not the end of this week. The end of this week, just that, the DA`s office is getting the investigation from the sheriff`s department.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So could have explosive developments in the next couple weeks. Oksana`s lawyers reportedly want to question Robin Moore, the ex-wife. In the sworn affidavit she made in defense of her ex-husband, Mel, Robin claims that in their relationship which produced seven children by the way, Mel was never physically abusive to her or the kids.

However, Oksana has reportedly said Mel told her that he hurled a TV set at his former wife. But it missed her and went out a window. What a fun bunch. She also claims she saw him hitting his youngest son.

I`ve got to say, imagine Robin`s humiliation. I mean, Mel left his wife of 28 years for the Russian hottie, Oksana, and then in the wake of the scandal, the ex-wife stands up for him, and now she`s going to get grilled by the lawyer for her ex-husband`s mistress?

I mean, is it possible for Mel to have this kind of rage in one relationship and not in the other? Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were hitting a woman with a child in her hands, you. What kind of man is that? Hitting a woman when she`s holding a child in her hands; breaking her teeth twice in the face. What kind of man is that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re all angry now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re going to get to -- you know what?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Carlos, do you buy that Mel was prince charming in one relationship and then this allegedly hostile lunatic in the other?

CARLOS DIAZ, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST: Jane, you know better than anybody else it`s not what Carlos buys, it`s not what you buy, or anybody buys, it`s what you can prove in court. Robin has already given a sworn affidavit that said that she is in Camp Mel on this one. Without that affidavit, I`m with you, Jane, I`m like, this is going to get juicy in court.

She`s already given the affidavit. This is a he said-she said-she said battle. But one of the she`s being Robin has gotten an $850 million fortune that is looking her in the face.

That there is no way, no way she`s going to bad mouth Mel on the stand because she`s got a huge fortune on the line that her and Mel have already divided up. She is in Camp Mel on this one.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Tom Kenniff, criminal defense attorney, we`re all wondering when Robin, the ex-wife, who was basically dumped for this one, the Russian hottie, comes out in defense of Mel saying he was a great dad. Why would she do that? Ka-ching, ka-ching, could that have anything to do with it?

TOM KENNIFF, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There may very well, Jane, be a pecuniary interest here. But remember she`s being subpoenaed to testify in a pretrial deposition. The rules of evidence generally don`t apply in pretrial depositions. However, the rules against perjury does; that`s a sworn testimony that she`s going to be giving under cross-examination. That`s not limited the way it would be in court.

Now, it`s one thing to provide a self-serving affidavit, certainly self-serving for Mel, perhaps even self-serving for herself; it`s another thing to be giving sworn testimony at a pretrial deposition and perjure yourself. She runs a great risk here of getting her own self in hot water.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So basically, in people terms, what you`re saying is, if Mel did throw a TV set at her, even if it missed and went out the window and crashed outside, hopefully not hitting anybody, she has to admit that or she`s lying?

KENNIFF: Right. Look, you know, Mel, as a would-be criminal defendant in this case, has his Fifth Amendment rights against self- incrimination. That sort of testimony with respect to his ex-wife, that doesn`t incriminate her, it incriminates Mel. She has no right to plea the Fifth Amendment or certainly no right to testify untruthfully in order to protect her ex-husband or perhaps to protect her own financial interests.


DIAZ: But how do you prove that?


DIAZ: How do you prove, if you have Oksana saying, well, Mel told me that Robin said that he threw a TV at her and Robin gets on the stand and says, nope, that never happened, how do you prove Robin is perjuring?

KENNIFF: She`s subject to cross-examination. Is she willing to take this far enough that she`s going to go in and lie and perjure herself. You`re right. It may be very difficult for her to prove. But if she goes in and testifies untruthfully, she runs a great risk.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And also, there may have been some people who, if these incidents did occur, saw them. So if she says it never happened and it did, and somebody saw it, then they bring that person in. Oops.

Ok. Here`s my big issue tonight. Is Mel having a Mel-down? I would say melt-down, but it`s a Mel-down for his sake. Let`s check this one out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t sleep. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) get sick. You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me up. You have (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me up. You have (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me up. You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me up. I did nothing but help you. But you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on me like a low-life (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Kim Serafin, the other day he crashes super expensive Maserati into a rocky hillside in Malibu unlike his other previous DUI. Police say this wasn`t drinking that caused this even though that was expunged from the record. They`re investigating whether this dude fell asleep at the wheel. What is going on with the Melster now?

SERAFIN: Yes. I mean you hear this voicemail and then hear about this car crash. And as you said the CHP has said it wasn`t caused by alcohol though apparently somebody did ask him at the scene of the accident whether he was on the phone when this accident occurred.

He was driving on the Malibu Canyon Road, which anyone who knows Malibu, it`s kind of windy. He apparently just kind of swerved into a rock wall. He did make the call himself to say -- to report it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve driven that road many, many times. I wouldn`t call myself the world`s best driver, but if you`re sober and not drinking, there`s no reason for you to drive right into a giant wall. Ok?

SERAFIN: That`s true. That`s true. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go back to why these guys were fighting to begin with. This alleged incident happened January 6th, the alleged punch that she claims he gave her. He denies.

About ten days later they were seen out and about at the Golden Globes together. Apparently they break up. We hear a settlement is in place with financial, visitation rights, Oksana was reportedly getting like $50 million. This is just published reports. I have no independent confirmation. Then it breaks down, ok? Something goes wrong and then suddenly these tapes appear.

So Carlos, is Oksana just doing what she needs to do to protect her baby daughter?

DIAZ: It depends on which camp you listen to. Mel`s camp is saying we had a deal in place. Now all of a sudden she wants all this (INAUDIBLE). She`s trying to extort us for more money. Oksana`s camp says, no, no, no, you heard the voice mails. I`m trying to protect my daughter in this instance. I don`t want Lucia anywhere near this madman. That`s basically what Oksana`s camp is saying.

It depends on whom you ask in this lover`s quarrel.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, very quickly Tom Kenniff, predictions, do you think either of these two will get charged, either she with extortion or him with some kind of domestic violence charge?

KENNIFF: I think it`s unlikely, Jane because remember there`s evidentiary issues with the tapes. California is a two-party consent state. It`s very likely that she broke the law in making these tapes to begin with.

Secondly, there`s an issue as to whether this was extortion or not. It doesn`t change the fact that these tapes make Mel Gibson look like -- makes "Sleeping with the Enemy" look like a romantic comedy. That being said, there are a wealth of evidentiary issues here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Fantastic guests, thank you so much. We`re going to stay on top of that one.

Julie Anne Gonzalez, she vanished five months ago. Her family has been pointing the finger at her estranged husband from day one. Tonight, cops have finally named him a person of interest. I`m going to talk one on one with that husband`s attorney next. We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM- SAYS. 1-877-586-7297.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think police are doing everything they can?



SOTO: No. Because they haven`t been able to locate her phone. They never fingerprinted the car that sat in the parking lot of that pharmacy for, you know, up to almost eight days.



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Bravo, Sarah. Thank you for doing your part to get rid of these. Your ISSUES eco-canister is in the mail.

Do you have a green improvement? Send it to me at Let`s all be part of the solution. Let`s all be part of the solution. Let`s go green.

All right. Tonight, a stunning development in the case of missing Austin, Texas, mom Julie Anne Gonzalez; police are now using the word murder when referring to Julie Anne`s estranged husband. Cops say they think he has key information that could help solve this mystery.

But they say he is not cooperating with their investigation. We will find out exclusively tonight here on ISSUES what George has to say through his attorney. And that`s in moments.

Julie Anne`s family has long suspected that George knew a lot more than he was saying. Check this out from Dr. Phil, back in May.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where is she? Where is she?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me the truth, George?

DE LA CRUZ: I don`t know, mommy. I don`t know. I wish I knew. I really wish. You think I like this? People thinking that I had something to do with it?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: 21-year-old Julie Anne was last seen in late March when cops say she went to George`s house to pick up their 2-year-old daughter. They share custody. For months, Julie Anne`s family begged cops for information. But they say they heard nothing. They came here on ISSUES numerous times to complain about that.

As it turns out police had discovered critical clues way back in May, including blood, rope and a love letter that Julie Anne wrote to her boy friend the morning she disappeared. Cops have not called the boyfriend a suspect.

How does all of this add up? I am taking your calls. 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. We`re going to begin with Lawrence Olmstead (ph), who is a noted private investigator.

Lawrence, you have studied this case. What do you make about the latest development of cops now calling the estranged husband a person of interest?

LAWRENCE OLMSTEAD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, Jane, I`ve kind of wondered why since March it`s taken so long for them to name him as a suspect. It`s clear if you looked at all the interviews and information that I reviewed that he should have been considered a suspect since day one. He had every reason to be looked at as a suspect. His arrogance amazes me. It`s beyond comprehension how arrogant of a young man he is to think that he`s going to get away with doing this.

I really do believe that he should have been implicated a long time ago. I`m just amazed that it`s taken this long.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me just say this. This guy appeared on our show, ISSUES, not once, but a couple of times and was very happy to answer questions. So that threw all of us. It would be astounding if somebody of his age has the sophistication to go on national television and just lie through his teeth. He seemed actually quite believable. What do you make of that?

OLMSTEAD: Well, the problem is, he doesn`t have the sophistication. He thinks he does. Just like a lot of other people who kill people. They tend to think that they`re smarter than everybody else and that`s why they kill people.

He does believe he`s going to get away with this. I really believe that he knows something or is actually the one completely responsible for Julie Anne`s disappearance and he needs to start answering up.

Another thing that surprised me, too is how in the world did Dr. Phil get to be able to do a polygraph on this young man when the police should have done it a long time ago right from the beginning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, his attorney, who we`re going to talk to in a second, says that that polygraph was very misleading, because he failed because he felt some responsibility for his wife`s disappearance because he said she showed up one day, the day that she disappeared, wanting the child. They have a little daughter. And somehow during the course of the conversation said she didn`t really want the daughter. And then disappeared and was never seen again and that he felt responsibility for not, you know, noticing that something was wrong with her. And that`s why he says he failed the polygraph.

What do you make of it?

OLMSTEAD: Doesn`t make any sense. Why all of a sudden did he stop cooperating with police? If he`s so concerned about the whereabouts of his wife, why is he stopping his cooperation at this point? None of it makes sense. Never did from the beginning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean, Michigan, your question or thought?

JEAN, MICHIGAN (via telephone): Yes, Jane. I thought on this, I`m missing a daughter also, ok? My daughter has been missing since February 26th, a year ago. Ok?

And I feel for the parents of this young woman missing here, because they`ve been having the same problem I`ve been having, ok? But my daughter left with a so-called friend, and never came back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what, you`re raising a very good point, because there are mystery men in this story as well.

Here`s my big issue. Julie Anne had several mystery men. George`s attorney told us about one of Julie Anne`s neighbors says he witnessed the day the day that she vanished. Check this out.


PATRICK FAGERBERG, LAWYER OF GEORGE DE LA CRUZ: Saw Julie Anne Gonzalez drive up in the late-model Chevy Malibu. She never left the car. He saw two Hispanic males get out, walk directly to the back of the house.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. There`s also another mystery guy named James, that`s all we know about him. Julie Anne`s family told us about on ISSUES, they say James was allegedly texting Julie in the days before her disappearance and apparently wanted to move with her to Colorado. So, the fact that cops seem so sure about George as a person of interest does that mean, Lawrence Olmstead, that they found all these other mystery men, interviewed them and discounted them?

OLMSTEAD: You know, I don`t think it is a matter of mystery men a lot had to do with the social networking aspects of this case. I believe George is pretty good with computers and very knowledgeable about social networking. I think what they have probably done and I can`t -- don`t quote me on this -- but I think they probably matched up a lot of the IP address accesses to the MySpace account and Facebook account.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are going to get to that fascinating aspect on the other side. Hang in.



SOTO: They should have looked at her car. They should have looked at any video footage from any of the places where she was said to have been last seen. They haven`t done that. They should have polygraphed people who said that they spoke to her last.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Julie Anne`s desperate mom appearing on ISSUES begging cops for information. Her family tonight declining to join us but they`re welcome any time.

Patrick Fagerberg, you are the attorney for George de la Cruz who has now been named a person of interest. Your reaction to the fact that your client has now been named a person of interest in Julie Anne Gonzalez`s disappearance.

FAGERBERT: Well, first of all, Jane, this is not news. The warrants were executed nine months ago. He was named a person of interest 90 days ago. The only thing that`s new is they made the search warrants and were turned public. So, there is no news. And you know, I have heard the Soto family talk about APD not doing their job and the other gentleman you had on earlier, you have these experts that come on here and don`t know any of the facts and make presumptions.

And if anyone would look at the time line of the day that Julie Anne disappeared and the time line my client has provided from the morning until night, it is physically impossible that he had anything to do with her disappearance. It is a completely water-tight alibi everywhere he was. He didn`t have the possibility.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this.

When Julie Anne`s mom appeared on ISSUES at the end of April, she told us about some possible shady activity on Julie Anne`s credit card almost two weeks after she disappeared.

Listen to this.


SOTO: There was one credit card purchase.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What was that for?

SOTO: It was purchased at Best Buy. They showed me the video and they asked me to identify the person who used the credit card and it was not her. It was a female but it is not her. Julie is five feet tall, very petite, not long-legged. The person who was on the video was obviously not Julie.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops are also looking into purchases made with Julie`s debit card at a Wal-Mart the day she vanished. The cops say there is video footage from inside that store that appears to show George pushing his daughter in a shopping cart. Cops say that same cart was used at two fast food restaurants on the same day.

What would you say to those who might, might deduce that perhaps he was using her card on the day she vanished?

FAGERBERG: Well, I can tell you right now, you don`t have to deduce, because George did use the card at the Wal-Mart that day. And I have been cooperating with APD. I was at their office for three hours yesterday going over the warrants and giving the logical, innocent explanation for some things in those warrants which may appear incriminating on the surface but when you know the details which I cannot put public right now because we are cooperating with APD.

Again, once they do become public, you will see that there was an innocent explanation for everything that happened that day. And more importantly --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now there were text messages -- go ahead, finish.

FAGERBERG: Yes, again, more importantly, again, no one has gone through the time line of George that day. I mean, he woke up in the morning, took his sister to school, waited for Julie to come by.


FAGERBERG: She didn`t take this child, she went next door.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I will invite you back another time. We are going to stay on top of this case, thank you.