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Will Terri Horman`s Friend Testify?; Fantasia Tries to Commit Suicide

Aired August 23, 2010 - 19:00:00   ET



CARLOS DIAZ, HOST (voice-over): Tonight disturbing new developments in the desperate search for Kyron Horman. Are the walls finally closing in on his step-mom? New reports now say Terri Horman`s best friend is refusing to take a polygraph. Does she know what happened to this cute little boy? Does she have something to hide?

Also, an "American Idol" winner tries to end it all. Horrifying details emerge in Fantasia`s shocking suicide attempt. The superstar singer sat in her closet, popped an entire bottle of pills and drifted off to sleep. Tonight for the first time, Fantasia speaks out. What pushed her over the edge, and what saved her life?

And Tiger Woods is now officially a single man. The one-time perfect family man and his wife, Elin, have finally divorced. Tonight the kids, the money, and the mistresses. How did it all play out in court?

Plus, what took so long? New reports say Heidi Montag`s ex-husband is selling a text tape. Is anyone surprised? Tonight, is the reality TV star really fighting her ex-husband to stop these tapes? Or is this all a huge publicity stunt?

ISSUES starts now.


DIAZ: I`m Carlos Diaz sitting in for Jane Velez-Mitchell. We have breaking news tonight. It`s official. The divorce between Tiger Woods and Elin Nordegren finalized today in Florida. The two were present in court for the execution, but what went down, and what are the terms of the divorce? I`ve got it right here. I`ll give you all the details in a bit.

But first, tonight, stunning developments in the search for 7-year-old Kyron Horman. His stepmother, Terri Horman, is still firmly in the spotlight, but now we`re hearing her best friend, DeDe Spicher, reportedly won`t take a polygraph. Why not? Why wouldn`t she when it would cheer her name? What`s she afraid of?

Kyron has been missing for more than two months now. He vanished from his school June 4 under the watch of Terri Horman. Terri Horman has yet to be called a suspect or a person of interest. But people who know her are being called before the grand jury one by one. They`re obviously doing some talking. And Kyron`s biological mother says it`s time Terri Horman does the same.


DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON`S MOTHER: We implore Terri Horman to fully cooperate with the investigators to bring Kyron home.


DIAZ: And new grand jury testimony adds to the speculation that step- mom Terri might have Kyron stashed somewhere. If that`s true and Kyron is still alive, who`s taking care of him? Is all this drama surrounding the search for Kyron taking the attention away from actually finding Kyron?

Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to my fantastic panel. We begin with investigative reporter Michelle Sigona.

Michelle, what do you know about DeDe Spicher and her refusal to take a polygraph?

MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, there are reports that came out, as you indicated, that DeDe may have refused to take a polygraph, and this is interesting because this just comes one week after she spoke out exclusively to "People" magazine.

And in that "People" article is where she indicated about her friendship with Terri Horman, the fact that she does not believe that Terri, in her heart, had anything to do with Kyron`s disappearance, and that she spent about 11 days with Terri after Kyron went missing.

So that may be a possible reason that she`s not moving forward with the polygraph and decided to speak out to "People," but we just don`t know as of yet. And maybe again, we will hear from her in another exclusive that may possibly come out in the near future.

Again, moving on to this week, divorce proceedings are moving forward with Kaine and also with Terri Moulton Horman. We will know a little bit later on if they will, in fact -- in fact, have that court hearing -- hearing that is supposed to be scheduled later on this week.

Also, there is a large fund-raiser that is planned for September 1 for a lot of the Godfather Pizzas throughout the area. A portion of the proceeds will go towards the search for Kyron Horman. And you can always find updates at their Web site at

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: As Michelle said, this is still going on. The grand jury is there. But, you know, she`s lawyered up. Does she necessarily have to take a polygraph?

Look, you know me, I always say if you need to take a polygraph, go ahead and take one to clear your name. But since she`s already lawyered up, the possibility of her taking the polygraph is probably -- is nil. I mean, if I was her attorney, I would say no.

But do they think that she`s involved in the disappearance of Kyron, or do they think she possibly may be and has some information in that murder-for-hire plot that we heard -- you know, heard about early on?

DIAZ: Well, the grand jury heard from several people who know Terri Horman. Three of them worked out at her gym. Terri Horman spent a lot of time at the gym and was even a professional body builder five years ago.

Yesterday`s testimony revealed that Terri was upset with her husband and Kyron`s father, Kaine Horman, because he wanted Terri`s teenaged son to move out of the home. They said Terri would continually -- continually complain about Kaine to anyone who would listen.

Bruce McCain, former captain with the sheriff`s office handling the search for Kyron, what do you know about Terri`s teenaged son? Where is he now, and why did Kaine want him to move out?

BRUCE MCCAIN, FORMER CAPTAIN, SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Carlos, the teenaged son is named James. He`s now living with his biological father, Ron Tarver, down in Roseburg, where Terri`s family also is from.

There`s still a lot of dispute over what caused him to leave. There was a published "Oregonian" report here in the newspaper in Portland this last Sunday. Pointed out that, according to Kaine and James, it was really Terri`s idea for him to leave.

So this relationship between Kaine and James was a potential motive, in some people`s eyes, for Terri Horman, but as far as the grand jury, by the way, you`re not going to see DeDe Spicher voluntarily testify to that grand jury, I don`t believe, without a grant of immunity.

As far as her polygraph, they`re inadmissible in Oregon. And as Mike said, see DeDe Spicher voluntarily testify I don`t believe with a grant of immunity. The polygraph is inadmissible in Oregon. And as Mike said, she`s got a lawyer. He`s not going to have her take a polygraph.

The real key for DeDe Spicher in this grand jury process is whether she`s going to voluntarily walk into that room, raise her right hand, and tell all she knows under oath without a grant of immunity. I doubt it.

DIAZ: All right. Coming up, we`ve got more on this after the break.

Also, what pushed an "American Idol" winner to attempt suicide? We`ll hear from Fantasia next.

But first, Tiger Woods is officially divorced. So how much did this cost Tiger Woods and what about the kids? We`re taking your calls on this and several other topics: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.


DIAZ: Stunning developments in the search for 7-year-old Kyron Horman. His stepmother, Terri Horman, is still firmly in the spotlight, but now we`re hearing her best friend, DeDe Spicher, reportedly will not -- will not -- take a polygraph.

Terri Horman`s best friend, DeDe Spicher, spent 11 days living with Terri when Kaine Horman moved out. Women talk; we know that. Terri must have said something that police would consider important, so here`s my big issue. Why not take a polygraph? Even if you have a false positive and had to take it again, it would still clear up so much.

Sure, a lawyer might not want to you take one, but if you truly are innocent and can help police find this little boy, why not take the test?

Mike Brooks, the truth will set you free, am I correct?

BROOKS: I always say if you have nothing to hide, take the polygraph. As a former investigator, it`s a great investigative tool. But that`s basically all it is in the state of Oregon, is an investigative tool. It`s not admissible. But it would help her clear her name.

And what involvement does DeDe Spicher really have in this case? Or does she know anything about the murder for hire? These are all questions that remain unanswered.

But I guarantee you one thing. Law enforcement, they don`t care what we`re saying. They are just going along methodically and making a case against either Terri or DeDe. They`re just working it, and they don`t care what anybody thinks.

DIAZ: Well, Mike, Kyron`s biological mother has always said she thinks her son is alive.


YOUNG: Kyron is still alive. We would like all of you, everyone, to continue to get his face out there, to continue looking for him in your day-to-day activities. We pray each day for Kyron.


DIAZ: Bruce McCain, of course, his parents want Kyron to be alive and have him back home. Have you heard any concrete evidence that Kyron could still be alive?

MCCAIN: Absolutely not, Carlos. In fact that question has been put directly to the sheriff`s office investigators. And it`s absolutely understandable why Kaine and Desiree would want to err on the side of optimism; otherwise people would be telling them to snap out of it. There`s no body, et cetera.

But the fact is this is now the 12th week of Kyron being missing, and there is absolutely no idea where Kyron is and whether he`s alive or dead. And more importantly, there`s still this giant gulf between this idea that Terri Horman was involved in his disappearance and this second belief that he`s being stashed and held alive by one or more persons.

We`re now into the three-months mark here. That means someone is putting him to bed, clothing him and feeding him, hiding him in plain sight, perhaps. He`s probably the most recognized kid in America that`s not been located. And it`s very, very highly unlikely that that`s the case.

DIAZ: And sad news, Bruce.

Recently, DeDe Spicher broke her silence in an interview with "People" magazine. She was working near Kyron`s house on the day he disappeared. Her boss says Spicher could not be located from 11:15 a.m. to 1 p.m. That`s an hour 45 minutes. But Spicher told "people" that she did not leave the property of that 38-acre nursery, that she was prepping for a garden show.

Spicher also told "People," "In all these years, I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe that she, Terri, is capable or motivated in any way to do something like this."

But if she was at Terri`s house, wouldn`t DeDe know about the sexing Terri Horman was doing with her estranged husband`s high-school friend, Michael Cook? Wouldn`t that be considered a red flag?

Let`s go out to Michelle. Michelle, what do you have to say about that?

SIGONA: Well, I mean, I think that you could be sitting -- if you`re married you could be sitting next to your husband or wife, and they could be sexting someone else and you wouldn`t know. So I don`t think that necessarily you could be inside someone`s home and know what kind of relationship they`re having with someone else, especially over the telephone.

But I do think that possibly Terri could have shared some information with DeDe that was confidential in nature, maybe something about the investigation possibly. I`m not saying that again. This is just a possible theory. And that`s why she doesn`t want to, you know, come forward and possibly take a polygraph.

And just as Mike said, a polygraph is only an investigative tool to help investigators lean in one direction or another, to move in a particular direction.

So in this particular case, you know, DeDe did come out, and she did sort of state her claim and speak her innocence and also talk about her friend. And maybe that was her way of sort of dealing with this.

But the grand jury, they`re going to be the ones that are the ultimate deciders in this particular case. And as we know, they are still hearing testimony and possibly through this week and maybe even through Wednesday.

DIAZ: And it`s still a mystery. That`s the thing. So many people are concerned about Kyron Horman, and we keep getting questions with very little answers.

My guests, thank you so much for coming on with me tonight. I really appreciate it.

But now we have a shocking confession by "American Idol" winner, season three winner Fantasia Barrino. Fantasia says her overdose was no accident.

Earlier this month, Fantasia downed a bottle of aspirin and a sleep aid after word of a sex tape with her married boyfriend was about to surface. Here`s what Fantasia told VH-1`s "Behind the Music."


FANTASIA BARRINO, SINGER: You can`t accidentally take a whole bottle of pills. I was tired of people doing me wrong, constantly over and over and over again, dealing with my family, dealing with my father, dealing with men and their (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I was tired. My head was hurting me. I was over it. So, yes, I knew exactly what I was doing.


DIAZ: Fantasia rocketed to fame on FOX`s "American Idol" but then found herself in a downward spiral. You got money problems, career mishaps, and then the bad publicity over having an affair with a married man. Was it all just too much?

Listen to the 911 call from the night of her suicide attempt.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An individual took a bottle of aspirin, and she`s slowly losing consciousness.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you with the patient now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m outside, but someone else is with her inside.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Slowly losing consciousness.


DIAZ: OK. Is this the elephant in the room? Did Fantasia just want the publicity? I mean, after all, she does have a new album coming out plus a new season of her reality show on VH-1. We want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to my next fantastic panel.

Let`s begin with "InTouch Weekly" senior editor Kim Serafin.

Kim, I know you have an opinion about this. What do you think? Was Fantasia at the end of her rope?

KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "INTOUCH WEEKLY": Yes, I think she was. I mean, you listen to this interview. This does not seem like something she did for publicity. She said she was tired of it. She said you don`t take a bottle of pills by accident. She says, you know, she was just kind of over it all.

DIAZ: But Kim -- Kim, Kim, hold on. Kim, Kim, Kim. Look -- she`s doing an interview for VH-1`s "Behind the Music." She`s, like, framed up with, you know, candles in the background. I mean, seriously, if you have that kind of problem, you have problems enough to want to commit suicide, wouldn`t you want to take a break and not go on some kind of promotional tour?

SERAFIN: No -- and that would make sense, but she has an album that`s coming out. And you`re right. She is doing, apparently, an appearance on "Good Morning America." This interview that you played clips from is going to be airing on VH-1 "Behind the Music" tomorrow night. Her album is dropping tomorrow.

She does have this reality show starting, though, coming up in September. Maybe that would be the time to take a break. You know, you can`t necessarily change the drop date of your album.

And it seems like this is kind of cathartic for her. It seems like she`s getting a lot of this out there, and she wants to talk about it, and she wants to explain herself. I mean, I`m not a psychologist, but it sounds like she really wanted to get this message out there: what she went through, why she did what she did, and why she turned her life around and why she changed her mind.

DIAZ: That`s a great point, Kim. Great point.

Fantasia told VH-1`s "Behind the Music" men were at the core of her problems. I wonder if that includes the boyfriend, Antoine Cook. He reportedly left his wife and two kids for Fantasia. Will Cook`s wife slap Fantasia with an adultery lawsuit? You actually can do that in North Carolina.

Fantasia claimed Antoine misled her. But hold on, people. Two days after a suicide attempt, they`re back together. He`s a married man. Duncan Roy, help me out with this. I don`t see what`s going on here.

DUNCAN ROY, FORMER CAST MEMBER, VH1`S "SEX REHAB WITH DR. DREW": Well, first of all, I think if you`re going to kill yourself, you do it properly. You know, it`s not a cry for help; it`s a cry for more record sales. And you know, ultimately, you throw yourself under a train. You don`t take aspirins. Or you take sleeping pills if you`re tired.

I mean, you know, I`m just very suspicious about anybody whose genesis happens in a reality TV show. And then you know what? People get addicted to fame. They get addicted to bigger and bigger headlines. And I`m afraid, you know, she`s just one of those poor kids that is addicted to the intensity. And I`m afraid we`re going to be spending the rest of the show talking about people like that, you know, who just want more. And so, you know.

DIAZ: And you make a good point. And you know this because you were part of VH-1`s "Sex Rehab with Dr. -- Dr. Drew."

ROY: You know, I certainly didn`t go out of my way to want the validation, but ultimately, you get addicted to it. I mean, it takes a strong man to sit there every day on a reality TV show with a camera shoved in your face and not want more of what you`re getting. Because you know, maybe it`s the first time in your life that people are that intensely interested in you.

DIAZ: OK. I want to bring in the psychiatrist, bring in the psychiatrist here, because this is -- here`s the professional. Dale Archer, our clinical psychiatrist, I mean, is this healthy for Fantasia to get right back into the groove, right back out into the public eye?

DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Yes, I`m about to pop here, because I couldn`t disagree with that. That`s absolutely ridiculous.

Aspirin can kill you. You could overdose on almost anything that can kill you. And the No. 1 rule, when you have someone that overdoses, you have to take that seriously. That was an attempt on her life.

And she talked about the stress that led up to that. And there are three things that go into it, hopeless, helpless, worthless. You`re in a hopeless situation. You perceive there`s nothing you can do to get out. And then you start saying, "You know what? If my life is this bad, maybe I would be better off dead."

Now, I don`t think it was good for her to be back doing that interview on VH-1. If she were my patient, I`d say absolutely not. You need rest.

But the pressures that be made her get back out there, made her get there, because she`s got the reality show coming. She`s got the album that`s coming out. So I think that all of those pressures are still there.

And when she talks about the men, she`s talking about her father, and she`s talking about the married man she had the affair with. All very, very real stressors here. So you know what? She needs help.

DIAZ: We are not done talking about this yet. Everyone stay put. Everyone stay right where you are. More on Fantasia`s suicide attempt.

Plus, Tiger Woods is a single man. That`s right. We`ve got all of the Tiger Woods divorce drama: the money, the kids, the mistresses. We`ve got the saucy details. "ISSUES" coming right...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight. Tiger Woods and Elin Nordegren`s marriage is officially over. We`ve got the -- we`ve got the divorce somewhere here.

After Tiger`s very public sex scandal, the couple was in a Florida courtroom today for the execution of their divorce agreement. Now TMZ is reporting they kept their distance and didn`t even exchange one word to each other.

But they did issue this joint statement, quote, "We are sad that our marriage is over, and we wish each other the very best for the future. While we are no longer married, we are the parents of two wonderful children, and their happiness has been and will always be of paramount importance to both of us."

Joining me now with the very latest is psychotherapist Robi Ludwig, joining us in a second.

First up we have Duncan Roy, former cast member of VH-1`s "Sex in the City." We have Jim Moret, also.

Jim, let`s start off with you, if you don`t mind. Any -- any shockers here that you`re reporting on "Inside Edition"?

JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, this is what we do know, and a lot that we don`t. We don`t know how much Elin Nordegren is getting. Reports estimate over $100 million, even though she had a prenuptial agreement. It`s widely believed that that prenup was thrown out once this sex scandal erupted.

We do know that the children, as you indicated in that statement, are a top priority. They`re also guarding their privacy. Elin has taken back her maiden name. They got divorced after less than six years of marriage. And you`ve seen how quickly this has unraveled since that Thanksgiving accident.

There`s some speculation that Elin is going to move with the children back -- back to Sweden. And -- and part of that deal, as I understand it, is for a shared custody, for Tiger Woods to have his children say one week a month or one weekend a month. And we know that the 3- and 1-year-old are very important to both of them. And I think that they`re trying to guard their privacy jealously to protect those two kids.

DIAZ: That one week a month, that`s actually breaking news. Over the past several months -- thank, Jim -- there`s been a lot of speculation about the divorce settlement. We`ve got the paperwork right here. Sources have said that Elin did sign a prenup, but it was renegotiated after the sex scandal. We`ll find out soon enough what got -- who got what and where, if we see if Tiger is in his house in Jupiter, Florida, if Elin is in the house in Orlando.

I want to go to Kim Serafin. I want to know your point of view. From a woman, how much does Elin deserve of Tiger`s nearly $1 billion fortune?

SERAFIN: She certainly deserves a lot. She`s definitely been through a lot. There were, as you mentioned, reports of $800 million. I don`t even know if he`s worth that much at this point.

But there were also reports that maybe in exchange for getting a lot of money she had to keep silent. She couldn`t go write a book about this. She couldn`t go on Oprah. She couldn`t spill, you know, the beans about everything that went on.

So I imagine that probably has something to do with it, as well that maybe she`ll get more money, but in exchange, she can`t really be out there talking so much about it.

But certainly, I think there`s a lot of people on her side.

DIAZ: And that`s a great point right there, Kim. Because you have to believe that she is being told be quiet. No book deals, no Oprah interviews, no nothing. You`re going to keep quiet. Here`s a bunch of money. Let`s just kind of let sleeping dogs lie. No pun intended.

Stay right there, by the way. Tiger Woods and his wife finally call it quits. I want to bring in our psychiatrist. We`ll hear from him in just matter of seconds.

Also, we`re going to hear from Duncan Roy.


DIAZ: Tiger Woods is now officially a single man. The one time perfect family man and his wife, Elin, have finally divorced. Tonight the kids, the money, and the mistresses; how did it all play out in court?

Plus, what took so long? New reports say Heidi Montag`s ex-husband is selling a sex tape. Is anyone surprised? Tonight: is the reality TV star really fighting her ex-husband to stop these tapes or is this all a huge publicity stunt.

A lot of big news here on ISSUES. I`m Carlos Diaz, sitting in for Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Let`s get right back out to my expert panel as we were talking about Tiger Woods and Elin Nordegren`s divorce finally being official. It all came today and in case you missed it, Tiger and Elin are no more.

Custody was reportedly a big issue in the divorce. Let`s go out to Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychiatrist. Dr. Archer, what do you think about the kids in this situation, how much are they going have to live with this divorce for the rest of their lives and what can this couple, now officially divorced, do for these kids to keep them sane?

DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: You know, it`s a sign that it`s better to come from a broken home than it is to live in a broken home. So, I think that the one thing that`s really important here is the divorce final and that gives closure to the kids.

So, no doubt they`re going to have a lot to go through here. Any child of divorce does. And when you`re dealing with a celebrity of a Tiger Woods status, it makes it that much of an issue because it`s all over the news and everybody knows about it.

But the bottom line, with kids, if you`re straightforward, if you`re honest, mommy loves you, daddy loves you, mommy and daddy don`t love each other anymore, the kids should do just fine.

DIAZ: Robi Ludwig, who`s a psychotherapist, joins us now. And Robi, I mean this is something that we`ve been waiting for, for such a long time, this divorce. Ever since that Thanksgiving day -- that Thanksgiving night debacle where Tiger is running over fire hydrants and there`s nine irons being thrown around. We`ve been waiting for some kind of news like this that Tiger Woods would be getting divorced from Elin.

What is Elin`s train of thought now? is she relieved now that all this is in essence behind her?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: She`s having lots of different feelings. Listen, with divorce comes a sense of loss because you fell in love with somebody, you felt connected to somebody. And whenever things don`t work out, there`s a little bit of sadness, but also it`s closing the door and leaving room for a new chapter.

And it also sounds like she`s planning to use this time to it really focus on herself and her own development. So I`m sure she`s having a combination of feelings, but it is a time to look forward and to somehow find a way to heal.

DIAZ: I want to bring back in Duncan Roy because Duncan, you are a former cast member of VH-1`s "Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew" so you know about sex rehab. Tiger never came out and said I`m a sex addict, but he was in rehab for something that had to do with something.

DUNCAN ROY, FORMER CAST MEMBER, "SEX REHAB WITH DR. DREW": He went to quite a famous sex rehab --

DIAZ: What I`m dying to know and what everyone wants to know, basically if Tiger Woods is single, he`s Derek Jeter because he`s a ladies` man if he`s single. So now that he is single, can he be a sex addict?

ROY: It depends whether your sexuality takes you to unmanageable places. It already has; he`s dropped a bomb on his family and destroyed his family with his sexual acting out. And he`s gone into treatment, one assumes for sex addiction judging it was at Patrick Cohen`s facility down in Mississippi.

DIAZ: But does he go Vegas now -- is he in Vegas next week just having as much sex as possible? What`s holding him back?

ROY: If you`re acting out around sex, it`s unhealthy sex. If you have a healthy relationship with your sexuality, then you`re not a sex addict. If he has an unhealthy relationship with his sexuality, then he`s a sex addict. So if he`s in Vegas next weekend having unhealthy sex and unprotected sex and miserable sex, which isn`t making him happy, then he`s a sex addict.

So, you know, it depends how you use sex in the same way that you use drugs or drinking or anything else that people get addicted to.

ARCHER: There`s a rule of thumb with being a sex addict where it`s affecting your family, friends or career. So if you are pursuing sex to the extent where those things are suffering and of course we know he has lost his family already, so now we wonder about his career, which also has fallen off a cliff. So I do see addictive behavior here and I think that depending on what goes forward, he may lose his career, as well, unless he can turn this around.

DIAZ: Yes, Tiger`s marriage isn`t the only thing that`s fallen apart. He`s had the worst golf season of his career. He hasn`t won a single tournament since the controversy broke.

I want to go to Jim Moret, chief correspondent, "Inside Edition" and an attorney. Jim, you`ve been covering celebrities for such a long time. What can Tiger Woods do to put his public image back together?

JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": You know, I think the first thing he has to do and I`m listening to what Duncan said, and to what Dr. Lugwig said. Look, his life has fallen apart.

What has this cost him? It`s cost him his family. It cost him his endorsements. You talk about not winning a tournament. He ended number 78 out of a field of 80. He has to get his life back together before he worries about putting his career back together. And I suggest that that`s not going to Las Vegas.

I`m sorry --


DIAZ: Can you separate the two at this point, Jim?

MORET: I think that so much of his life was his career and his public image. And let`s face it, when you hear allegations that he had 20 or so mistresses and everything that he was living was a lie and then you don`t even know who Tiger Woods is in the public way, I think he has to really look hard at who he is, what he wants out of life and then learn to rebuild step by step.

He`s not going to get it all back at once, but it took him a while to lose who he was, as well.

DIAZ: Robi, as a -- we`re giving this to Robi -- as a psychotherapist and as a woman, do you think Tiger Woods did everything he could to repair this marriage?

LUDWIG: Listen, I don`t know what he did to try get his marriage back on track. It`s very possible for some women after they experience that degree of humiliation and that many women, they just say I`m done, there`s no way that I can get over that. So it`s very possible that he tried to save it a little bit it too late and that he had a wife who wasn`t willing to wait it out.

Everybody`s different. And you know, that`s really a private decision. They both come from previous histories where that will always influence whether they decide to work through the marriage or not.

I just have to say, though, that I think Tiger Woods in addition to having a sex issue was really highly underdeveloped as a person because he focused so much on his career that his personal life really didn`t have time to catch up. And then we see this problem getting played out in front of many different eyes, which is very hard and very common for many people who are in the public eye.

DIAZ: It`s A great point because people don`t want to talk about his father passed away right as all of this began. All the speculation about his extramarital affairs -- it happened right around the time his dad passed away. I`m not making excuses for the guy, but you`re right, he is underdeveloped when it comes to being a person of society.

Kim Serafin, from a celebrity standpoint and from an endorsement standpoint, we know that Tiger needs to win tournaments to get the endorsements back, but will he ever be that Tiger Woods that we all knew before the scandal endorsement-wise?

KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": I don`t know. I would say no, but then again, you look at someone like Kobe Bryant, someone who nobody thought really could make a full comeback and yet he has. Look, Tiger Woods has shown that he can be disciplined.

So I`m with Jim, he cannot start going to Vegas and partying. He should put all his effort into wing again because when you`re an athlete, you have that more so than a celebrity who gets in trouble.

If you`re an athlete, if you start winning, people start get on your side. Plus Tiger has his foundation. If he really starts putting his efforts back into that, he certainly can make a comeback, but part of it really does depend on him winning.

DIAZ: Dr. Dale Archer, if Tiger goes out and wins this weekend at the Barclays` in New Jersey, how terrible is that for married men all over the country whose wives nag them that they shouldn`t be playing golf? It`s like yes, you know, I got divorced, I couldn`t win through the whole divorce thing. I got divorced and then I went and kicked butt in the first tournament after the divorce.

ARCHER: You know, I have to tell you if Tiger were my patient, I`d be telling him you need to lay off from golf and you need to deal with Tiger the man and not Tiger the golfer because until he comes to terms with everything that`s taken place, until he comes to terms with the fact that he is now considered an evil fraud, the public is no longer on his side.

He has to get away from golf, deal with himself, deal with his issue and then he can take a step back. I don`t see any way that he does well this weekend or any weekend in the foreseeable future.

DIAZ: All right. Let`s take some phone calls. Carol from Kentucky, what are your thoughts about the Tiger Woods divorce?

CAROL, KENTUCKY (via telephone): My thought is he must have been very hard up for sex when he picked those that I`ve seen that he picked. Elin is a beautiful woman. But Tiger, he`ll never be nothing from now on. He`s not going win anymore golf tournaments or anything. He might as well just leave town.

DIAZ: Robi, Carol make as great poi a great point. I mean when you look at some of the women that Tiger slept with, Elin is beautiful, but if you look at --

LUDWIG: Right. But we find this a lot, though. We find this a lot that when men cheat on their wives, it`s not because their wives aren`t gorgeous and beautiful and sometimes the people that they`re cheating on aren`t as stunning as their wives. It`s really not about that.

The cheating is about something else. Either it`s about being rebellious, it`s a way to break boredom. Maybe it`s a way to get out of the marriage that one field is no longer gratifying.

Cheating is really -- there`s a meaning behind the cheating and -- and I think people need to find out what the cheating mines. And it can mean something different in each case.

DIAZ: I want to talk to the two women really quick. Yes or no. Are you a fan of Tiger Woods? First off Kim, yes or no?

SERAFIN: I mean, I -- I wasn`t really a golf fan before this, so I now know more about Tiger now than I did before. So -- I`ll watch. I`m willing to give him a chance, see if he can redeem himself. And we`ve seen crazier things happen.

DIAZ: Robi, yes or no, a Tiger Woods fan yes or no?

LUDWIG: I never really was a fan, but I`d like to see him get past this and grow. Who knows I`ll keep an open mind.

DIAZ: There you go, thank you, for my fabulous panel.

Coming up, Conrad Murray in court today; when will he face the music for Michael Jackson`s death?

But first, sex tape scandal for Heidi Montag; we have all the details on the latest Speidi drama. And we`re taking your calls on this, 1-877- JVM-SAYS.

Stay with us.


DIAZ: Is Heidi Montag really fighting over her sex tapes or is she desperately fighting for more pub? That`s next.

But first "Top of the Block" tonight.

Delayed justice, fast breaking news tonight in the Michael Jackson death probe: MJ`s personal doctor was in court today. Don`t get all excited. Dr. Conrad Murray won`t be facing actual justice until next year. A judge set a preliminary court date for January 4th -- January 4th of 2011.

Murray is accused of pumping MJ full of -- of powerful anesthesia just before he died. The doctor has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Michael died more than a year ago. I`m wondering is this case ever going to get started? Come on people, let`s get with it.

That`s tonight`s "Top of the Block".

Turning to Speidi`s latest attempt at extending their 15-minutes of fame; it takes more than a divorce and of the hills to silence these two. Spencer Pratt is shopping a sex tape collection of himself and soon to be ex-wife Heidi Montag.

He is reportedly negotiating with the sex tape specialist at Vivid Entertainment. We hear Spencer`s asking price -- wait for it -- $5 million, $5 million and he`s using Twitter to market this smut. Spencer tweeted, "Wait for the special edition sex tape, Blu-Ray, director`s commentary and bloopers."

Heidi shot back "FU". To which Spencer replied, "Seriously, are you going to start (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on Twitter?"

Ok, hold on, he`s not upset. They`re fighting on Twitter people. I`m pretty sure they`ve got each other`s cell phone numbers. They could fight over texts.

But they want you guys to see it. Is there anything these two do that`s unscripted? I want to hear you`re take on Speidi. Give me a call. 1-877-JVM-SAYS, that`s 1-877-586-7297.

Out to my panel: producer, director Duncan Roy is back with me; psychotherapist Robi Ludwig; and Dylan Howard, a senior executive producer for RadarOnline.

Dylan, let`s start with you. Is Heidi really trying to fight the release of these tapes?

DYLAN HOWARD, SENIOR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, Carlos, this might have the sniff of a scandal, but to me it doesn`t pass the smell test because both Heidi and Spencer have been spotted at the same hotel, believe it or not, today in Costa Rica.

This after Spencer came out and said he was going to release the sex tape involving his soon-to-be ex-wife. But now all of a sudden they`re on the same island in the same country, supposedly hashing out and thrashing out a possible deal. For me, it just doesn`t sound right.

DIAZ: Wait and didn`t they say they were like giving each other their dogs or something like that? That`s why they were together -- that`s their big excuse. You`re being duped people.

HOWARD: Carlos --

DIAZ: Yes.

HOWARD: -- they`re to be sharing custody of their two dogs and of course you have to go to Costa Rica to do that.

DIAZ: You have to. That`s the best place to give away, you know, to give each other the dogs. I`ve heard that for several years.

Heidi and Spencer filed for divorce just last month. Spencer threatened to write a tell-all book about their relationship. She threatened to sue.

Celebrity tell all and sex tapes, they`re nothing new but Spencer needed to up the antique and he needed to hook and apparently now he`s got one. Because check this out.

Playboy playmate Carisa Shannon (ph), one of the videos features Heidi and Carisa together.

She and her twin sister appeared on "E`s" "The Girls Next Door" with Hugh Hefner. Shannon confirms the sex tape does exist and she says she plans to sue the pants off Spencer if he releases it -- a threesome with a Playboy playmate.

Duncan Roy, could Vivid have a huge hit on its hands or are people just too fed up with this couple to care about their sex tapes?

ROY: I`m afraid a lot of people will want to see both of them naked. I mean, you know, that`s the way it is. These people are addicted to fame, addicted to like minor celebrity. And what else can they do apart from sell their bodies now? I mean, they`ve got nothing else to sell, they`re running out of options.

So yes, I`m sure a lot of people will buy it. I really do.

DIAZ: You -- are you one of them?

ROY: No. I have no interest in looking at Heidi Montag`s pneumatic breasts.

DIAZ: Well, sadly celebrity sex tapes have proven to put stars in the spotlight for better or for worse. I mean, it used to be if you did a sex tape, you were done for.

But then came Pamela Anderson, then Kim Kardashian, then Paris Hilton. These videos have jump-started people`s careers and kept their careers alive.

Years ago a sex tape meant a career ender. But now Robi Ludwig, what does it say about all of us that sex tapes equal more fame?

LUDWIG: Well, I think we`ve become a little bit desensitized to the shock value of it all and it`s just another way to market one`s self. And I guess because reality TV is so popular, this almost seems like an extension of reality TV.

ROY: Yes.

LUDWIG: It`s reality TV in the bedroom. Although I think after a while it`s just going to look like what it is -- a desperate plea to stay in the limelight. And it`s done by people who really don`t have anything else to sell but their bodies in a way. So to me, it just strikes me as quite sad.

DIAZ: Yes, you make a great point. And where do you go from here?


DIAZ: You make a sex tape, for you know, first off, you got Pam Anderson and a sex tape with Tommy Lee and that`s -- that`s pretty shocking for when it came out.

But then now you`ve got to have Playmates, you`ve got to have threesomes, you`ve got to have all these different things involved to up the antique with a sex tape --

LUDWIG: Right.

DIAZ: -- where do you go from here. We`ve got to get bigger --

LUDWIG: I don`t know what`s next -- animals?

DIAZ: That`s a whole realm that I don`t even want to talk about. Everyone stay right where you are.

Here`s the thing. We have got so much to talk about. I`m going to stay with this right now -- stay with my panel and talk more about this. We`re going to have much more with Heidi and Spencer. Including the fact is this for real?

I mean, we talked about them being married, about their divorce, about the sex tape. None of this is confirmed. All we know is that she`s filing for divorce.

When we come back, I want to take your phone calls and we`re going to hear from the panel. Is any of this real? We`re going to have more Heidi sex tape info coming up after the break.



LARRY KING, CNN HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Spencer, people say that you made a career out of being obnoxious. When you look in the mirror in the morning, do you consider yourself I`m an obnoxious person?

SPENCER PRATT, REALITY STAR: When I look in the mirror in the morning, I actually think about how amazing I am at first and how --

KING: See, that`s obnoxious.

PRATT: So then yes.


DIAZ: I`ve hang out in Vegas with these two, Heidi and Spencer. I`ve had drinks with them. They`re pretty cool in person. They`re actually pretty cool. They`re just full of crap on camera.

I hate them on camera.

Listen, Dylan Howard, senior executive editor at RadarOnline, do you believe that Heidi wants to block this sex tape or are you like, hey, she wants half of that $5 million, she wants these sex tapes to come out?

HOWARD: Heidi is the big impediment if this tape is real and it is going to get released. Because if it is real and Spencer is shopping this behind her back, she must sign off on this tape or Spencer risks a multimillion-dollar lawsuit. And the sales, well, they would be outweighed by the amount of money that he and any publisher of the tape would have to pay Heidi and anyone else in the tape.

So the big question remains if this tape is ever to see the light of day, she must sign off on it. To me it sounds as though we`re working towards a carefully orchestrated perhaps reality television program.

DIAZ: Yes. Exactly. And Robi, I have to get your -- as an expert on this, if people don`t -- if they don`t buy the sex tape, then the sex tapes will go away. Why is it that the public has such a fascination with sex tapes?

LUDWIG: Oh, I don`t know. I think that there`s just a fascination with sex in general and maybe there`s a curiosity, an avid curiosity when it comes to reality stars. Part of the appeal for these reality stars is we`re intrigued by their lives. We`re intrigued by not knowing how things are going to play out.

That`s not necessarily true if we`re watching something that`s scripted, right? The audience has gotten are pretty smart. So I think that`s in part the appeal.

DIAZ: But we`re not smart enough to say Heidi, Spencer, we see through this. It seems like Spencer and Heidi will stop at nothing to grab the spotlight. Exhibit a, Heidi`s ten plastic surgeries in one day. Nothing was off-limits -- ten plastic surgeries in one day.

Check out this insane clip from RadarOnline.


HEIDI MONTAG: I went to the black market (INAUDIBLE), you know. So for me, I really do want 800 ccs. I really wanted big bobs. The first time I got them, I thought they would be bigger.

It`s my body. I need to feel comfortable as a woman, as a person and inner beauty is always there. And I`m just more concerned that both my inner beauty and --


DIAZ: Inner beauty? Inner beauty? Inner beauty? Wow. Let`s think back to the days when we had Joe Millionaire -- remember Joe Millionaire -- we had Richard Hatch on "Survivor" they had popped on the real world -- where are they now?

Are Heidi and Spencer headed for the same kind of oblivion? I want to throw that one to Duncan Roy. Are these guys going to be an afterthought five years from now?

ROY: Well, they sure are going to make as much money as they possibly can before they disappear. That`s probably the -- their raised on debt. They want to make as much money and you know a sex tape will make them some cash.

But you know, the other guy is right. They both have to sign off on this deal in order for it to be released. Every single sex tape that you see has been signed off on.

DIAZ: All right, Duncan Roy, you are the man. Thank you so much. Dylan Howard, Robi Ludwig, you guys are all awesome.

We`ll have much more on this tomorrow. You`re watching ISSUES on HLN.