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CONNECT THE WORLD
Cardinal Brady's Controversial Comments; Human Smuggling; Prospects for Mideast Peace
Aired September 1, 2010 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, it's a story that church-goers around the world are all too familiar with; sexual abuse in the clergy and one of the Pope's top men is once again in the midst of the scandal. Cardinal Sean Brady is the head of Ireland's Catholic Church. And what he told CNN is making victim's groups very angry.
Joining the dots on the day's big stories for you on CNN, this is the hour we CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson in London, with a story out of Ireland, which critics say is no model in dealing with the cover-up of abuse. So, is the church in any one country getting it right?
Also tonight, of course, updating you on the story that you've been hearing here on CNN, out of Washington, and the murky business of smuggling not just drugs, but humans across Mexico's border with the U.S.
And a big week for U.S. President Obama, as he tries to kick start formal Israeli/Palestinian talks. We'll explore the prospects for peace.
And we do want to know your thoughts on that and the rest of the stories that we're covering. Tweet me at BeckyCNN. As promised, as the developing story there in Washington continues, we'll bring you updates as we get them.
First up tonight, Cardinal Sean Brady says he has moved on from a painful time for Ireland's Catholic Church. Those words hitting a nerve tonight with victims who live with the scars of clerical abuse every single day.
Nic Robertson talked with Cardinal Brady days before Pope Benedict begins a regional tour.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At times during his visit to Britain, the Pope will be barely 150 miles, a couple of hundred kilometers from here, the heart of the Catholic church in Ireland. Even so, his visit seems unlikely to temper anger here over allegations of abuse by the clergy in Ireland.
(voice-over): In a rare opportunity to interview the Pope's top man, we asked about that. He says he's not concerned the Pope won't travel an extra few miles on his British trip to offer healing here.
CARDINAL SEAN BRADY, IRISH CATHOLIC CHURCH: No, not really disappointed. I have been told he's coming here at a later stage.
MAEVE LEWIS, ABUSE VICTIM'S ASSOCIATION: I think that is indicative of the position the Vatican has adopted since the Irish scandals have began to emerge. I think it shows that the Pope really hasn't taken untoward at all the way that the Irish church has been brought to its knees.
ROBERTSON: Maeve Lewis heads a charity counseling victims of priestly abuse, thinks the Pope is missing an important opportunity to help a community move on.
LEWIS: If the Pope personally has acknowledged the role of the structures of the Catholic church in facilitating the sexual abuse of children, that would have gone a long way towards helping the healing process in this country.
ROBERTSON: Earlier in the year, the Catholic community was riven by reports of decades of child abuse by priests. The church was accused by many of a cover up.
BRADY: He says to them you have suffered grievously, and I am truly sorry.
ROBERTSON: Cardinal Brady was at the center of the storm, led the church's response to the anger, a Papal letter offering apology and strict guidelines for the future.
BRADY: The holy father offers very stern words for priests and religious who have abused children.
ROBERTSON: Back then, Brady, who himself admits knowing of abuses and not informing the police, had hinted, in the face of calls to quite, he might resign. But now says he's put those thoughts behind him.
BRADY: Well, yes, I have reevaluated it, and decided to continue as archbishop. It was a very difficult time. I'm moved on from there, I think. And I enjoyed a lot of -- got a lot of support in my decision.
LEWIS: Cardinal Brady may consider that he has put all that behind him, but certainly the thousands of children who were sexually abused by priests because people like Cardinal Brady failed to act on full knowledge haven't been able to put it behind them.
ROBERTSON: Lewis isn't a lone voice. Across Ireland, many have stopped going to church. Even priests have been losing faith with the church's handling of the crisis.
FATHER MICHAEL CANNY, SPOKESMAN, DIOECESE OF DERRY: And will lead them to kind of -- just a kind of heavy heart and a sense of a helplessness and (INAUDIBLE), and to some sense demoralized for that reason.
ROBERTSON (on camera): To the people that say there needs to be a complete investigation -- there needs to be wider reforms in the church, what do you say at this time to those people?
BRADY: Well, we are having a visitation of various diocese. The four archdiocese are being visited in the coming months. I think, you know, there's a lot of visitation -- a lot of visitation taking place. And we are preparing for that.
ROBERTSON: I've talked to priests who have said that there's -- this has hurt the morale within the clergy, that there isn't a greater examination.
BRADY: I haven't met many of those priests, to be honest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, thank you very much.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Brady's press assistant cut short the interview here.
(on camera): The anger over allegations of abuse and cover-up are out of the headlines now, and the church seems to be taking solace in that. But the anger is far from over. The fate of the church that seemed so much in the balance earlier in the year is still far from certain.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Armand (ph), Northern Ireland.
ANDERSON: All right. Well, here is how the church is dealing with clerical abuse in some other countries. Just this week, Germany's Catholic church unveiled tough new rules for dealing with abusive priests. Among them, church officials are now required to report any plausible allegations to prosecutors. And offenders are to be removed from jobs involving work with kids.
But the new guidelines stop short of the standards of the U.S. Catholic Church, set in 2002. Now, those rules effectively ban priests who have committed abuse from further work with the church.
And the Belgian Catholic church is also set to unveil its own set of standards. The Brussels Archbishop says those rules will be firm, transparent and rigorous, I quote, but again, not as tough as the U.S. rules.
But is it enough for the church to police itself for those types of guidelines? Or is something more needed to prevent further acts of abuse - - abuse, I'm sorry. Let's bring in Reverend Thomas Doyle, a Catholic priest who has been helping victims of sexual abuse for decades. He's also been an expert witness and consultant in cases spanning the globe.
Let me start of tonight, Tom, with you and your reaction to what you heard from Cardinal Sean Brady in that report.
REV. THOMAS DOYLE, CATHOLIC PRIEST: Well, my reaction is quite simple. First off, I don't think he meant a word of it when he promised to resign when it was uncovered that he had facilitated an abuser several years ago, before he was a cardinal.
Secondly, I'm not at all surprised that he has publicly re-thought his position. The cardinal and the hierarchy across the globe are primarily concerned about themselves. They are not concerned about the victims, or the victims' families, or the paying faithful, who are amazed and infuriated by the way the hierarchy has handled this situation in every country where it's been uncovered.
ANDERSON: Does the concern expressed by victims' groups in any way surprise you?
DOYLE: Not at all. The only reason any of these countries have done anything, including the United States -- the only reason, the only way the bishops have made any moves to deal with this has been because of intense pressure from the victims, from the media, and from the courts. The church -- the bishops would never do this on their own, never. And they never have.
ANDERSON: Is there anything that you are seeing out of any of these countries, including Germany and Brussels, with their new proposals set to be out or out now -- is there anything that you are seeing which suggests that the church is able to police itself? Or should we be looking to a further policeman, as it were?
DOYLE: Absolutely not. There's no way they can adequately police themselves, because their primary concern is the civility and the image of the hierarchy. If they had been effectively able to police themselves, we wouldn't even be talking about this today, because there are mechanisms in the church's own law to prevent this and to deal with it effectively. They have never been used. And the only reason they're policing themselves now is because they have been forced to.
ANDERSON: I spoke with the U.K.'s leading lay-Roman Catholic, Lord Patten of Barnes, earlier today. I was talking to him about the Pope's forthcoming trip here to England, Scotland and Wales, not to Ireland, not part of the trip. This is a British church trip. This is the pontiff's first trip here in nearly two decades.
And we talked earlier about how the U.K. might provide a model for others. This is what Chris Patten said, and I want you to respond to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS PATTEN, CHANCELLOR, UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD: There have been cases of child molestation in England, Wales, Scotland, which have caused huge repugnance, and not least inside the Catholic church. They've been dealt with an absolutely exemplary fashion over the years, putting in place child protection practices with outside surveillance, which are regarded as a model by others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A model, he says, that others would have been well advised to follow rather earlier. Do you agree?
DOYLE: Absolutely not. The myth is that if we put these procedures in place to protect children, that is looking into the future. That is a stop-gap measure. But they have done nothing to deal with the root cause, which is the irresponsibility of the bishops. Then they go around patting themselves on the back and getting lay cheerleaders to go on ahead of them.
The fact remains that the major issue has never been dealt with. That's the governmental system. Why are bishops allowing this to happen? Why have they covered up? Why has it taken this immense pressure to make them come up -- come forth publicly and acknowledge what has been going on for ages?
ANDERSON: Tom, always a pleasure to speak to you. We thank you very much, indeed, for joining us. The Reverend Thomas Doyle.
Well, there is no story that better CONNECTS THE WORLD than religion. And CNN will be covering the Pope's visit to Britain starting the 16th of September. Watch out for more details in the next week or so on that.
Don't go away now. After the break, we're on the scene in Silver Spring, Maryland, where a hostage situation in the states is unfolding at a U.S. television station. We'll have the details for you on that after this.
ANDERSON: Right, you're with CNN. I want to update you now on a breaking news situation in the U.S. state of Maryland. A man possibly armed with explosives is believed to be holding hostages at the headquarters of the Discovery Channel Television Network.
Now, a source close to the investigation tells CNN that the man is linked to a manifesto posted on the Internet that refers to humans as filth. Police say they are in communication with the gunman and he is making demands. This has been going on for more than three hours now, and we are watching closely for developments.
The pictures you see are pictures at the scene. CNN's Brianna Keilar is there in Silver Spring, Maryland, and joins us live, now. The latest, Brianna?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, negotiations have been going on between the authorities here and this suspect for going on two hours at this point. This building behind me is where this is happening. This is the Discovery Building here in downtown Silver Spring. This is right on the edge of Washington, D.C., right outside of Washington, D.C.
And you see the sign, the blue letters that say Discovery. Well, this is an L-shaped building. So I know it may look like two buildings, but it's actually one. And that is really the main entrance of the building.
What police have told us is that this man, who law enforcement sources have now told CNN is a man named James Lee, an environmental protester -- police tell us he went into the main entrance, that he was wearing canisters on the front of his body and on the back of his body, that he was waving a handgun around, and that he told people inside of this first floor to stay still. At this point, he's still there in the first floor, with a, quote, small number of hostages.
That's what officials are telling us here. So obviously more than one. We don't know how many. We don't the identity of these hostages. This is a building where 1,900 employees work. And police have told us they believe that most of them, if not all of them, have been evacuated. But it's somewhat difficult to tell, because since this gunman is holed in the lobby, there are certain parts of the building that police don't have access to. And so there are certainly some questions there.
What are they negotiating with him about? Police aren't telling us, Becky, about the specifics. They say there are some things -- some specifics about the situation they don't know. And they also say there are other things they're just not going to reveal, because it wouldn't be prudent as this scene unfolds, Becky.
ANDERSON: I want to show our viewers some pictures of some children - - some children coming out of the building. I want you to explain exactly what our viewers are seeing now. Brianna?
KEILAR: Yes. And actually, I can't -- I don't have return, so I can't see exactly what. But I do understand that what it probably is pictures of kids from a daycare. Because, as I mentioned, this suspect was on the first floor of this building. There's also a daycare there. People go to work and they're able to leave their children at the daycare while they're working.
This was of a great concern, as you can imagine. But what police have told us it they believe all of these kids have been evacuated. In fact, I'm standing across the street here from a McDonalds, and a Discovery spokesperson told us that these children were evacuated to this point, so that they could be reunited with their parents.
So certainly that's good news, because you can imagine, Becky, a lot of people very concerned about that.
ANDERSON: Yes, a frightening, on-going situation. We've seen those kids coming out, in carts, being wheeled out of the building. Let me just confirm; we do know who we think the man is. We don't know what his demands are at this point. We don't know where he is specifically in the building. We have a general idea. And the police telling us pretty much nothing else at this point, because they don't want it to disrupt the negotiations. Am I right in saying that?
KEILAR: That's right. And police aren't even identifying who this man is. This is what we are -- but we know from unnamed law enforcement sources that it is a man named James Lee. He's in his 40's. He's an environmental protester who has been arrested during protests. He has a beef with the Discovery Corporation.
So it is believed that this man is the man -- is the suspect inside. But he's someone who -- according to an online manifesto, he says that humans are filth, and he has said that the Discovery Channel needs to stop encouraging the birth of parasitic human infants. So obviously singled out Discovery Corporation, had issues with them in the past.
KEILAR: That's what we're hearing from those law enforcement sources, Becky.
ANDERSON: Brianna, stay on the scene and we'll get back to you when you've got more information for us. Brianna Keilar there in what is a developing situation in Washington, just outside in Maryland.
I want to bring in Wallace Zeins now. He's a former hostage negotiator with the New York Police Department. Maybe I want to shed some light onto this situation.
So you've heard what Brianna has said. We know very little at this point, aside from the fact the guy went in, we believe, with canisters on both his front and back, waving a gun. Your sense of the situation at this point?
WALLACE ZEINS, FORMER NYPD HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, my -- what we do in a situation like this, we go with the premise that he does have a bomb on him, and he does have a gun until we prove differently. The most important thing is we have three elements that are -- that must be met. That is communications, intelligence and discipline of fire power. Right now, all three of those are in place.
In addition to that, we have negotiations going on, which is very positive sign. As long as we negotiations going on, then we have a situation where we're in contact with him. The name of the game is to develop a rapport between the hostage-taker and the hostage negotiator.
We'll continue to talk until we make headway of getting someone released. What is important now is that we continue the negotiations and listen to his demands. Being a good listener is very, very important.
And he has certain demands. He has a statement that has to be made. He has a statement that he wants the public to hear. And we will listen as long as it takes, whether it's an hour, whether it's a day. That's the name of the game, in relationship to our negotiation.
ANDERSON: Who will the negotiator be?
ZEINS: Say that again. I'm sorry.
ANDERSON: Who will be running this negotiation with him? Talk to me about the teams involved here.
ZEINS: OK, what we do -- we have what we call the hostage negotiation team. A hostage negotiation team consists of a negotiator. And there are three people that are part of a hostage negotiating team. We have the primary negotiator, who talks with the individual. We have a coach, who coaches the hostage negotiator. That is, he gets intelligence from the third person, who is a floater, who goes out of the inner perimeter and talks to local, state and federal law enforcement and gathers as much intelligence as he or she can, and brings it back to the hostage coach.
And all three all interchangeable. So we're able to -- in case he doesn't want to talk to the negotiator, and wants to talk to someone different, we're able to interchange.
ANDERSON: Are you surprised that the couple of press conferences that we've had from the local law enforcement offices on the scene have really given us very little information at this point. We know he went in, we know he went in with canisters on, we believe, waving a gun.
We know very little else on this. They're being very cagey with the information that they provide to the media. Does that surprise you?
ZEINS: No, it doesn't, because what we want to do -- you want to keep the confidentiality. There may be certain things that he wants to discuss that he doesn't want publicly known. There may be some negotiating that's taking place that he feels he only wants to have with the negotiator.
Keep in mind, if you lie to the hostage-taker, you lose very valuable time. So it's very important that his demands can be met, and everything that he demands is a negotiation. If he says, "I don't want this to be heard," then it's not going to be heard. And the negotiator will continue to negotiate with that particular hostage-taker.
ANDERSON: We believe that most people have been cleared from the building. I guess that's the first step in any hostage situation. You must've seen the pictures of the kids being wheeled out from the daycare center in cots. This is a frightening situation for what the 900 people in that building who really had no idea where this man was or what he was up to.
ZEINS: But you have to also keep in mind, one of the things that we do in all hostage incidents, especially a situation like this, is everyone that comes out of that building gets debriefed by the investigative team that we have. And the investigative team will talk to them prior and before the incident, and also during the incident. If anything was seen, heard, or might lead to information or intelligence towards this hostage situation.
ANDERSON: Fascinating stuff. We thank you very much for joining us on the story as it develops right here on CNN, a hostage-taker in the Discovery Headquarters in Maryland. We know -- we believe that a gunshot may have been fired in the beginning, we cannot confirm that. We know very little about the man, he is -- some people say, sources certainly saying from the law enforcement agencies there that it is James Lee, the picture you are seeing of a man here, who has a beef with the company. We cannot confirm that at this point.
Listen, we're going to take a very short break. We're going to be back with the news headlines after this.
ANDERSON: A very warm welcome back. You're watching CNN at just after half past nine in London. I'm Becky Anderson, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Let's get you a quick check of the headlines this hour.
Police say they are in negotiations with a man who is believed to be holding a small number of hostages at the Discovery Channel offices in the US state of Maryland. Police say the hostage-taker has a gun and possibly explosives. A source close to the investigation tells CNN the man is linked to a manifesto on the internet that refers to humans as filth.
In Pakistan, at least 28 people have been killed and more than 200 wounded by a series of blasts in Lahore. The attack was carried out on a Shiite Muslim mourning procession just as people were breaking their Ramadan fasts.
US vice president Joe Biden and defense secretary Robert Gates took part in a ceremony marking the official end of combat operations in Iraq. In Operation New Dawn, the 50,000 US troops remaining in the country will now advise and assist Iraqi Security forces.
The US president, Barack Obama, says his ambitious Middle East peace initiative is making progress. He's meeting separately today with the Palestine Authority president, Israel's prime minister, and the leaders of Egypt and Jordan, all to prepare for tomorrow's Israeli-Palestinian summit.
Expectations for that Middle East summit may be low, but the stakes are extremely high. Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas says even if there's only, quote, "A one percent chance of achieving peace, we will strive for it."
We're joined by one of our big thinkers. Fawaz Gerges is here to help us analyze these talks. And Fawaz, before get your thoughts, let's just listen in to chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat about what is it stake. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Now it's time, not for negotiations. It's time for decisions. We know -- Palestinians and Israelis know today that all issues are doable, including Jerusalem, refugees, security, et cetera. And they don't need to re-invent the wheel.
Palestinians and Israelis know that if it's not this year, next year, in ten year's time, it will be a two-state solution on the 1967 lines. Palestine next to the state of Israel. And the difference in time here is how many lives of Israelis and Palestinians will be saved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Saeb Erakat says there will be a two-state solution, but how long it will take is another question.
FAWAZ GERGES, CONNECT THE WORLD PANELIST: Absolutely. In fact, I would say that the two-state solution, Becky, is disappearing before our own eyes. I really believe this is -- if this particular round fails, I think you expect the situation to -- they're going to have military escalation of hostilities, the possibility of a region-wide war.
ANDERSON: Why the pessimism?
GERGES: There is a weak foundation, and it's very difficult, Becky, to build peace on a weak foundation.
What do I mean by a weak foundation? The divide between the two camps is very large. Between the vision of Netanyahu and the vision of Mahmoud Abbas. You also have some major divisions within each camps. The Palestinians are divided between Hamas and between the Palestinian Authority. And, of course, Netanyahu leads a fragile coalition.
Also, you have -- and this is a question of American leadership. American leadership is critical to facilitating a settlement between the Palestinians and the Israelis. To what extent will President Barack Obama be able to exert pressure? To what extent will he be able to invest political capital in order to bring about a settlement? This is the big question.
ANDERSON: Right, this is the big question. We don't have any answers on that. Aside from the fact that he's at least called this meeting. He's getting the -- two of the many parties together. But perhaps at this point, at least the two parties who are prepared to talk.
ANDERSON: What will those negotiations in Washington include, do you think?
GERGES: Well, I think there are two big questions and major challenges. The question of East Jerusalem, occupied East Jerusalem. The Palestinians would like East Jerusalem to be the capital of the future state. And, of course, Israeli prime minister Netanyahu says no, he will never give up East Jerusalem.
And, of course, you're talking about the settlements. You have, Becky, about 500,000 Jewish settlers on the West Bank and occupied East Jerusalem. And that's why I started my talk by saying the possibility of a two-state solution is disappearing before our own eyes. What do you do with 500,000 settlers on the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
Those are the two major challenges, in addition, of course, to the Palestinian refugees. You have about four million Palestinian refugees in neighboring countries.
ANDERSON: So these are the problems for the two parties. Why do you think President Barack Obama and, to a lesser extent, I guess, the secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, has decided that this is the time to call these talks?
GERGES: Becky, the -- resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict has been a strategic priority for the Obama administration. On day one, when he first the White House, the first call he made was to Palestinian president --
ANDERSON: There's been no movement at all.
GERGES: The first year, he invested considerable time. And, of course, he took on Israeli prime minister by insisting on a complete freeze on settlements. I think he lost the first round to Prime Minister Netanyahu.
The reality is -- I think Prime Minister Netanyahu has all the cards. He has all the cards, he has the land, he has the power, and he has the support of the United States. And we have -- we will wait and see if Israeli prime minister is willing to play his cards in Washington.
ANDERSON: How important are representatives of Jordan and Egypt in Washington this week, and why isn't Libya there, for example?
GERGES: The reality, Becky, the Arabs are not present. There is no solid, coherent Arab position. We're talking about American leadership. The Arabs are divided between two camps. The pro-western Arab camp, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. And, of course, the so-called resistance camp, Syria, Hamas, and Hezbollah in addition to Iran.
The fact is, it's easy to have the talks. The question is, Becky -- the big question for us is, what if this particular round fails? What do you do the morning after? In fact, my fear, if this particular round fails, you might have a region-wide war. Because all it takes is a spark on the Palestinian-Israeli side, on the Lebanese-Israeli borders, not to mention the question of Iran.
ANDERSON: I mentioned Libya because the tectonic plates are moving the Middle East at present. And sort of king-makers appear to be changing their face, as it were. And certainly Libya has moved into a position that potentially might be one that might help to at least smooth some of the ways amongst the Palestinians at this moment.
ANDERSON: But how important is a country like Libya today?
GERGES: Not very important for the peace process. The reality on the ground is that since 2002, the entire Arab world, including Hamas, including Syria, including Libya, is on record saying a comprehensive peace initiative -- that is peace for land. And the reality on the ground, of course, the two sides are very close.
But the question is, how do you do -- how do you deal with 500,000 settlers. What do you do about East Jerusalem? At the end of the day, we will find out in the next few weeks if President Barack Obama is willing to invest his limited, precious political capital in trying to facilitate a settlement.
At the end of the day, Becky, look at Barack Obama. He is overstretched. Waging a war in Afghanistan-Pakistan theater, he pulled out American troops from Iraq. His domestic agenda is, of course, very ambitious and guess what? The Republicans are gaining momentum. His domestic situation is becoming extremely difficult and, of course, he has elections -- Congressional elections in November.
And that's why it remains to be seen if President Barack Obama and the Obama administration are willing to invest the needed capital for a breakthrough.
ANDERSON: Stick with CNN. We'll do this story as it moves through Thursday and into Washington's Friday hours. The quartet there in talking. We thank you very much, Fawaz, as ever, for joining us. After the break, we're on the scene in Silver Spring, Maryland for you again, where a hostage situation is unfolding as we speak at a US television station. We'll have the details on that after this. Stay with us.
ANDERSON: Let's get you back to the scene, a breaking new situation in the US state of Maryland. A man, possibly armed with explosives, is believed to be holding a small number of hostages at the headquarters of the Discover Channel television network. A law enforcement source tells CNN the suspect has been identified here, as you see him on the screen, as James Lee.
Now, police say he entered the main entrance of the building, wearing what appeared to be metallic canister devices and waving a handgun. A source close to the investigation tells CNN, Lee is linked to a manifesto posted on the internet that refers to humans as filth.
Police say they are in communication with the gunman, and he is making demands. Negotiations have now been under way for more than two hours, and we are watching closely for developments.
CNN's senior producer, Paul Courson, is on the ground in Maryland, and he's joining us now via phone. What more do we know at this point, Paul?
PAUL COURSON, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, hello, Becky. This all started around 17:00 GMT, almost a few hours ago, now. And in the time since, there's been quite an assembly of law enforcement personnel, including bomb containment devices. They look like a fortified cement mixer, what you'd see at a construction site.
And the idea of those containment trucks is that, if they do have explosives that they can bring out of the building and detonate them safely within a containment device like that, it'll minimize the damage and casualties potential.
What we do know is that negotiations are still under way with the man who, apparently, has some complaints against the Discovery Channel. The Discovery Channel is a feature channel on cable distribution in the United States. You know, rooftop satellite-type distribution in the United States. It's not an over-the-air broadcast channel that you might have been thinking of.
And his complaints have to do with the programming, and grievances that he believe would address that involve changes in that programming. There's a manifesto that's been published on the internet. I don't have the details of it in front of me here, but he's decided to demonstrate in a very profound way what his demands are. And that's what's under way at this point, Becky.
ANDERSON: And have we heard from law enforcement officers on the scene as to what his demands specifically are today as he went into that building? What do we know about these negotiations at this point?
COURSON: They always keep those secret, because if he happens to be listening to one of the CNN channels or the other outlets that are covering this, the police don't want to show their hand, as far as their negotiating posture is concerned. And they certainly don't want to give any extra air to any progress they might be making with this guy. So I'm not able to disclose -- I don't know it, and that's how come.
ANDERSON: All right, Paul. As you talk, we're looking at pictures of some very little kids being wheeled out of the building earlier on. Those were recorded images. What do we know about those who were in the building at the time that this man entered?
COURSON: We understand that the Discovery Building for its staff, and perhaps for others hired -- who were hired, had a daycare center in the building. And these children were there at the time this man came in and created a barricade.
As the police chief of Montgomery County, the local jurisdiction here, told us at a briefing, all of the children have been brought out of the building safely. The other hostages would, my assumption, be adults. And the children were not hurt during the siege as it began.
ANDERSON: Remarkable pictures. I mean, really, some feeling for these kids. Paul, we're going to leave you on the scene to get as much more as you can for CNN, and we'll be back to you as the story unfolds. Paul Courson is one of our senior producers at CNN.
The scenes there are of the Discovery Channel television headquarters, which is in Maryland in the United States, where a hostage crisis is currently unfolding. We know very little about the details of the negotiations. Suffice to say, we believe that the man that you see on your screens at present, a man by the name of James Lee, is the hostage-taker.
We aren't -- or can't, certainly, confirm how many people he has with him, nor can we confirm what it is that he is demanding from law enforcement officials. But as we get more information, we will bring it to you here on CNN.
Coming up next, Spanish police uncover a prostitution ring they have never seen before. We're going to tell you who is involved and what they are accused of doing, right after this.
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson for you. Now, police in Spain say that they've made an unprecedented bust after a six-month investigation into male prostitution. They rounded up 14 people accused of bringing men from overseas, hooking them on drugs, and forcing them into sexual slavery. CNN's Phil Black has the story.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Spanish police say these are just some of the men they have found living as sex slaves in brothels across the country. They're all Brazilian. Police say most were lured to Spain with the promise of modeling or dancing work, but were then kept in small apartments like this one, sleeping up to six to a room. And they were forced into prostitution.
JOSE NIETO, CHIEF INSPECTOR, SPANISH POLICE (through translator): The rooms where they spent 24 hours a day were like submarines. Small rooms where they had to be on duty and permanently in service.
BLACK (voice-over): To ensure they worked around the clock, police say the men were given drugs, including Viagra and cocaine. The customers were always men.
This alleged brothel was on the island of Majorca, the suspected center of a criminal network responsible for trafficking between 60 and 80 Brazilians into and across Spain. Eight people were arrested on Majorca, including the accused ringleader.
Raids were also carried out in Leon. Police arrested three there, and three others in Barcelona, Alicante, and Madrid. Police believe the men were routinely moved between these areas to meet local demand.
PEDRO BERNARDO, CHIEF INSPECTOR, SPANISH POLICE (through translator): Some of the victims have said that after being moved, if they wanted to stop working, they were told they would be killed.
BLACK (voice-over): Investigators say the men were forced to pay back their air ticket at the inflated price of more than $5,000. They also had to give up half their earnings and pay weekly rent of $250. Police say the network trafficked some women as well, but is unique for being the first they're aware of to concentrate on smuggling and exploiting men. Phil Black, CNN, London.
ANDERSON: The US State Department says that prostitution is just one of the reasons for trafficking men all over the world. For example, this year's trafficking persons report says that some Afghan men now are, for example, subjected to forced labor in Iran, Pakistan, Greece, and in the Gulf states.
Last year, the Netherlands identified 138 men who were forced into prostitution and into slavery. And in Suriname, labor trafficking victims are often male and forced to work in factories, the fishing industry, and in agriculture.
One of the major issues may be the reluctance to identify male trafficking as a problem. Many countries are listed as having no programs or shelters in place for male victims of trafficking. In fact, China's legal definition of trafficking doesn't even recognize male victims.
My next guest agrees that male trafficking is a global problem, and he says teenage boys are the main targets. David Batstone is the president of Not for Sale, an organization that fights against modern-day slavery, and he joins me now, live, from San Francisco.
How big a problem is this, David?
DAVID BATSTONE, PRESIDENT, NOT FOR SALE: It's global, and it reaches just about to everybody's backyard, no matter where you live on the globe today. So it's something that really is alarming. It addresses anyone who is vulnerable, has ambiguous immigration status, and can be taken advantage to be able to serve the pleasures of someone who has more power or money to buy that particular practice. So --
ANDERSON: We illustrated --
BATSTONE: It's shocking.
ANDERSON: We illustrated just some of where the supply of boys is coming from and some of where these -- some situations where these boys are going to. But can you just give us some more details on that, as it were? Who's being trafficked, from where, why, and where are they going?
BATSTONE: You've rightly identified that there are countries of origin. That is, usually they're poorer countries where people are quite desperate, and they'll believe a dream that you can go to United States or Germany, the Netherlands, and you can get a good job working in a restaurant, or even if it's working in an entertainment club. The young male has no identity -- idea that that's where he's headed, in terms of being forced to sell his body.
And you have countries of destination. You tend to be wealthier countries in the world, and you will see, then, an influx of people who are then brought in for their labor or for using and selling their body.
ANDERSON: What's being done to help these kids?
BATSTONE: I'm sorry, Becky, that didn't come through very clearly.
ANDERSON: What's being done to help these young boys?
BATSTONE: There's some real specific work that's being done. One is that -- Not for Sale campaign, we have a tool that people can go to, it's called slaverymap.org. And there you'll see that we're identifying and documenting cases wherever they happen in the world.
And this gives individuals, police departments, governments an idea of the type of trafficking they're seeing and where trafficking is coming from, and where it's going to. That gives us a way to build better policy and better laws and better intervention strategies.
The other side of it is, how do you provide shelter, and you provide a future for those who are trafficked? So, for instance, in Cambodia, we're working closely with a group that has actually set up a restaurant to help employ young boys who are coming out of the sex trafficking industry. So, not only rescuing them, but they're giving them another kind of future.
ANDERSON: David, this is fascinating stuff. As a show, we are committed to trying to expose the problem all over the world, cnn.com/connect, On the Trail of Human Trafficking. We'll do more on these stories. For now, we thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.
We want to update you now on the breaking news situation that we've been following in the US state of Maryland. Aaron Morrissey is the editor in chief of DCist, a website about Washington, DC and he joins me now on the phone.
I know you're on the scene. What can you tell us at this point?
AARON MORRISSEY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, DCIST (via telephone): I'm actually not on the scene, but we are receiving reports that the negotiations are ongoing, and the gentleman is still in the building, and he still has a small, unconfirmed number of hostages. But the negotiations are ongoing.
ANDERSON: The gentleman you are referring to goes by the name of James Lee. Sources in the law enforcement industry as it were have suggested that this is the man who is the hostage-taker. What do we know about this guy?
MORRISSEY: He was arrested back in 2008 for a protest -- during a protest that he had put on that was not very well-attended. He was arrested on disorderly conduct and littering charges. He also produced a rather long-winded manifesto about his problems with the Discovery Communications group. But at this point, we never thought it would develop into something this serious, but obviously, it has.
ANDERSON: Have you or your colleagues ever spoken to this guy?
MORRISSEY: No, we have not. Two years ago, he was arrested. We thought at that point the story had kind of run out -- run its course. We get quite a few individuals with these kind of radical ideas in the Washington, DC area all the time. And so, we had not heard anything in the last two years from him. And now, this has come up today.
ANDERSON: A picture taken in 2008, I believe, of a man who goes by the name of James Lee, who we believe is the hostage-taker at the center of a developing story in Washington in the state of Maryland, just outside of Washington. Let's listen in to a press conference just under way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The chief form the Montgomery County Fire Rescue, Richard Bowers, and also with him is the Montgomery County State's Attorney, John McCarthy. This will be Chief Manger.
J.T. MANGER, CHIEF, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: At approximately 1:00 this afternoon, an Asian male entered the Discovery Building in Silver Spring. He had what we believed to be explosive devices strapped to his front and back. He also had a handgun. There are reports that we've not confirmed yet that he did fire a shot when he came in.
He took three people hostage near the lobby area of the entrance to the building. Over the past several hours, we have been in negotiations with the man. Approximately ten minutes ago, the -- the suspect was shot by police officers. The device appeared to go off. We haven't confirmed that as of this time. We saw some smoke, may have heard a pop. We haven't confirmed all that information yet.
The hostages -- there were three hostages. All the hostages are safe and are out of the building. At this point, we are still -- it's still an operation -- a joint operation between the police and fire rescue, because there are other suspected devices in the building that have not been rendered safe. And at this point, we are -- the operation at this point is to make sure that those devices are rendered safe and removed.
Again, all the hostages were -- got out safely. We -- I don't believe that there's any injuries, but we will confirm that once we get a chance to talk at more length with the hostages. Again, we also have to clear the rest of the building. Where we could see the suspect we know is clear, but there's further area on the first floor of the building that has not been checked yet.
So obviously, we still have more to do, but at this point, the suspect is in custody. I do not know his condition at this point. And the three hostages that we could see that were near the suspect are safe -- have been safely removed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (inaudible)
MANGER: Obviously, that -- there's going to be -- any time there's a use of deadly force by police officers, it's a long investigation, and that will go through the investigative process.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Was he threatening the hostages at that point?
MANGER: Based on the information that we had, we believed that it was -- that the hostages' lives were in danger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Was he attacked from inside?
MANGER: I don't know the answer to that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Was he becoming more agitated?
ANDERSON: Updating you on a breaking news story out of the US state of Maryland. Just ten minutes ago, a hostage-taker who was inside the Discovery Channel headquarters with three hostages, with a handgun and some explosives attached to his body was shot and is now in custody. Shot by police officers.
A device they say appeared to have gone off in the area. All the hostages are safe, they are out of the building. This is still a joint operation, they say, between police and fire rescue offices as there are still suspected devices in the building.
This James Lee character is now in custody, having been shot by police officers. The hostages that he had in the building have now been released.
Let's get you to Isha Sesay at CNN Center. Isha?