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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Convicted Rapist Arrested in Slaying of Woman, 22

Aired September 20, 2010 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight -- breaking news. An unimaginable crime becomes horrifically personal for a North Carolina police chief. He desperately pleads for justice for his murdered daughter. Twenty-three-year-old Valerie Hamilton vanished Wednesday. Days later, her corpse was uncovered in a storage facility. Now a convicted rapist has been arrested for her murder.

And is the war on women a much bigger threat than we know? A new, earth-shattering investigation says the FBI may be drastically underreporting the number of rapes. What? We`ll talk to two courageous rape victims who are demanding justice.

Then "Hoarders" is exposing how one person`s jaw-dropping obsession hijacks an entire family. I`ll talk to the hit show`s very own clinical psychologist about this dramatic disease. Have we become a nation of hoarders?

Plus, will these struggling starlets ever learn? Paris and Lindsay have been busted for drugs. Again! Now they`re both finally admitting, "I`m guilty." So will these paparazzi princesses serve time for the crimes, like scores of other Americans?

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight in the war on women. A police chief`s daughter, beautiful daughter murdered and stuffed into a storage locker. Her suspected killer now behind bars.

Twenty-three-year-old Valerie Hamilton vanished Wednesday in Charlotte, North Carolina. She was seen leaving a bar with this man, Michael Neal Harvey. Looks kind of clean cut.

An intense manhunt for this sicko ended this morning with his capture in Niagara Falls, New York. Don`t be fooled by the look. In a sick irony, that`s where Harvey was convicted of rape 14 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF RODNEY MONROE, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG, NORTH CAROLINA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Harvey has been arrested shortly after 10 a.m. this morning. Representatives from the U.S. Marshals Service as well as the Federal Bureau of Investigations located Mr. Harvey inside a house up in Niagara Falls, New York. That is one of the places we believed that he had attempted to run, due to family members being in that area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How is this for an obscenity? Harvey served four years, just four years, in prison for rape. This guy`s got a rap sheet a mile long. We`re doing to tell you about it. And yet, he was free to waltz into a bar and allegedly lure Valerie to her death.

Her devastated father, the police chief, was on "Good Morning, America." Listen to what he said shortly before Harvey`s arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POLICE CHIEF MERL HAMILTON, VICTIM`S FATHER: I`m trying to stay strong, and they know what it means because the cameras are on, but they took my daughter, guys, and play it right, play it by the rules. Y`all get out there and find this guy for me. When it comes back my way, I`ll pay you back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That poor man. Fighting crime his whole life, and then for the end of his career, after 27 years, becoming a victim himself, losing his precious daughter.

What is your thought about our war on women, claiming the 23-year-old daughter of a police chief? Doesn`t that really crystallize our problem in this country? 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. I want to hear from you on this.

Straight out to my fantastic expert panel but first to renowned investigative reporter Michelle Sigona.

Michelle, what is the very latest?

MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Detectives right now are -- from North Carolina are in New York, Jane, and they are interviewing the suspect. We do not know the extradition process, what exactly will take place. That could take anywhere from a week to a few weeks, and that`s something that we`ll definitely keep an eye on.

Moving forward, I was just told within the last half hour that the suspect`s vehicle has been located. For a while there today, we did not know where that particular Chevy Blazer was, but it has been located, and it is being processed now along with other...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle, tell us what happened. Tell us what happened. She was at a bar with this guy, and she`s seen leaving. And then what happens?

SIGONA: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She ends up in a storage locker. How the heck did that happen?

SIGONA: I confirmed with the bar that they were at last week, Jane, that they weren`t there together. They did, in fact, leave together. And then investigators came and reviewed a lot of the surveillance tape. And her vehicle was left in the parking lot.

From that point, she may have gone home. There was a phone call that could have been placed to a friend to have the friend come and hang out with them. But after that point around 3 a.m. the next morning, we don`t know exactly what happened. That`s why investigators over the weekend went back through, and they did comb a few potential areas. No. 1, Harvey`s house. No. 2, the storage facility. No. 3, there was a hotel location.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at this beautiful girl.

SIGONA: She is beautiful. She was beautiful. No. 3, an Econo Lodge where he may have been staying. And then they put out an alert -- I did confirm that -- the FBI over the weekend, to not just the FBI in New York but across the country that this is something that they were looking into.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Here`s my big issue. Have bars become hunting grounds? Is that where predators go to troll for victims? Here is Valerie`s dad, the police chief, on ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMILTON: I just hope that the other young ladies out there, that they`ll remember the lessons they were taught as youngsters about being safe. It carries into when you`re in your 20s, ladies. Make sure men treat you with respect and be safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now I can tell you, we don`t know whether Valerie left willingly with this Harvey. I certainly do not want to blame the victim here. We have a right to pursue our lives as women. We have a right to go out.

Dr. Alan Lipman, we have just gotten word that a friend of Valerie`s says Valerie called her just after 3 in the morning the night she vanished and asked her if she wanted to come out to the hot tub with her and a friend at Valerie`s apartment complex. Well, obviously, the friend may have been the killer. That was Valerie`s last phone call. Take it away, Doctor.

DR. ALAN LIPMAN, FOUNDER, CENTER FOR STUDY OF VIOLENCE: I understand. And let me tell you a story about that. First of all, our hearts and my heart go out to the families and the people who knew Valerie the best.

Now, I spoke with one of these people today who knew Valerie the best, John Kirk who worked with her for three years, and he could not emphasize enough that this was a good girl. He kept repeating, his voice cracking with the greatest emotion, as he saw her work with children and bring her joy to them. This was a fine girl, a quality girl.

But at the end the call he said to me, "She just made the wrong decision."

Now, this street, this Thomas Street where the bar was, Thomas Street Tavern, is at night a place where singles mix and mingle. And it does seem to me that, while it`s possible that this was noncompliant, based on the evidence that you just said, it`s unlikely. And this was a young, beautiful, naive girl who ran into darkness, a psychopath and rapist.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: The bottom line -- the bottom line here is, Jane, this guy should have been in jail. Plain and simple.

LIPMAN: Of course.

BROOKS: There`s no reason, no reason whatsoever, why this guy should be out on bond. He was just locked up you in March, March 15, for possession of drug paraphernalia, for possession with intent to distribute heroin and possession of a firearm by a felon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got the rap sheet right here.

BROOKS: He should have -- but he was out on bond.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you.

LIPMAN: More than that, let me just get they point in. He had not reported himself as a sex offender when he moved from New York state after the minimal four years that he served for the rape that he started his youth with at the age of 20. When he came to Concord, he didn`t report himself as a sex offender, and he wasn`t sufficiently dealt with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me say something else.

LIPMAN: Six, seven, eight, nine, 10. This was not dealt with by the system.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, I want to emphasize, Mike Brooks, 100 percent correct. This guy has a rap sheet that`s a mile long. It`s 100 miles long. He was reportedly in a drug-induced stupor on a friend`s couch when he was arrested this morning. So it might have been a very good likelihood that he`s a drug addict. One of his past arrests included heroin possession. You don`t just take heroin casually. Last year, he...

LIPMAN: Well, when he was -- when he was -- when he was...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s just go through...

LIPMAN: ... let out from jail...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold it. Hold it. Hold it.

LIPMAN: ... in 2000, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let...

LIPMAN: He was mandated for substance abuse treatment and did not follow up on it, and then had a series of substance abuse arrests.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course. He`s a drug addict.

LIPMAN: So there`s no question that, from the age of 20, he was a drug addict. It`s not a question, Jane. It`s a reality.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. And -- but he keeps breaking the law.

LIPMAN: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, breaking and entering, he gets probation. A couple of months later he`s convicted of shoplifting. He gets 24 hours of community service. Then he`s arrested again last March...

LIPMAN: That`s correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... and charged with heroin possession and possession of a firearm by a felon. I mean, this guy has got more mug shots than, you know, Mel Gibson.

LIPMAN: Well, it`s an eye for an eye. This is a dark -- this is a dark psychopath who slips underneath the system. He`s been doing this for years. Unfortunately and tragically, got away with it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I`ve got to bring in Judge Karen Mills- Francis. Why is it that we are locking people up for nonviolent drug offenses like, oh, crack possession, for life, OK, and this guy who rapes a woman gets off in four years; and he proceeds to break every rule in the book, and he`s still walking free. Why, Judge Karen?

JUDGE KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, HOST, "JUDGE KAREN": Jane, we`ve -- we`ve talked about this many times, Jane. You`ve right. You know, somebody`s selling marijuana on the street for the third time, can end up in prison for 15 to 30 years. But the reality is that the majority of people who go to prison will eventually be released, period, regardless of what they`re charged with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what?

MILLS-FRANCIS: I think all of these stories show -- what all of these stories, Jane, is that the police aren`t protecting women. Society is not protecting women. Women are going to have to start protecting themselves.

BROOKS: The police are locking this guy up.

LIPMAN: You are right.

(CROSSTALK)

LIPMAN: This was a sexual offender, and a dual diagnosis, and with his sexual offense and with his unresolved substance abuse, he was released after four years. Judge, you are correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: and let me tell you this. A couple of the people, female staffers, were, like, I don`t think he`s good looking but you know what`s weird? Is he`s good-looking. So one of the big lessons is, don`t count on appearances, OK?

BROOKS: You`ve got that right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It doesn`t matter whether he`s clean cut and he looks like, oh, you know, your uncle`s son or the next-door neighbor.

LIPMAN: Or (ph) the neighborhood cop.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s not the way to judge whether somebody is dangerous or not.

BROOKS: There`s no tattoo, "I`m a felon," across their forehead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you, wonderful panel.

And we`re going to take your calls on the next story, as well. It`s unbelievable.

An illness so consuming it is tearing apart families. I`m going to talk to a clinical psychologist of the hit show "Hoarders." And you can ask yourself, do you have signs of hoarding? You won`t believe some of these people with this disease. It`s unbelievable.

But first, the FBI releases -- wow -- misleading data about rape in the United States? We`re going to talk to two very courageous rape victims next, who are joining me in our war on women, to talk about the underreporting of rape, and it relates to the story we just heard about and all the stories we cover here on ISSUES. We`re going to hear from them next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIE WEIL, RAPE VICTIM: My rapist was finally identified months later. He was caught beating up his pregnant girlfriend at a motel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news. Cops arrest a convicted sex offender for the murder of a police chief`s daughter. Every day, it`s another horror story in the war on women. What the hell is going on in our country?

Last week it was the horrifying details of the rape and torture of the Petit family of Connecticut. The father brutally beaten, the mother raped, strangled; two daughters tied to their bed, one raped, both burned alive.

And now a new FBI investigation reveals the rape crisis in our country is more shocking than we even know. The FBI says rape is one of America`s least-reported and least-prosecuted crimes. Why? Because our justice system is stacked against the women reporting these attacks.

Listen to what this mother of two went through. It will shock you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WEIL: The assailant beat me, held a knife to my neck, and raped me four times. Each time I was violently raped, he forced both of my children to watch every moment of the crime. My daughter was forced to sit just inches from me as I screamed in pain during the brutal sexual assault.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How many more women have to endure that kind of injustice in this war on women? I am taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM- SAYS.

Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, including two incredibly brave women who know all too well what it`s like to have to report a rape. Liz Seccuro (ph) was raped when she was a 17-year-old college student, and Katie Callaway Hall was raped by Philip Garrido, the monster who allegedly held Jaycee Dugard captive for 18 years. I don`t think there`s anyone who disputes that.

Liz, we`ve got to begin with you.

LIZ SECCURO, RAPE VICTIM: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You didn`t get anywhere when you reported your rape back in 1984.

SECCURO: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s your reaction to the revelation now that rape cases are being swept under the carpet?

SECCURO: Well, the whole idea of underreporting is rampant. Colleges and universities underreport it. The Catholic Church underreports it. And you know, it`s a little bit of a fox asking how many chickens are in the henhouse. I`m not surprised at all. Nobody wants to face the facts, and nobody wants to come forward. All that people care about are the so-called false reporters, and there are some, but it`s such a small, small percentage.

So I`m really aggravated when I hear about these stories, and when cops are not believing rape victims, I get incensed. So we need to -- we need to help our rape victims to come forward and to speak the truth and to get support.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But they`re not going to come forward if they`re going to be treated the way that woman says she was treated.

SECCURO: That`s absolutely right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Often when they complain, nobody takes them seriously. You complained. Did anybody do anything about your complaints that you were raped?

SECCURO: No. No one took me seriously...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did they say to you?

SECCURO: ... until the rapist himself -- they said, are you sure? Maybe you didn`t have sex with this guy, and you don`t want your parents to find out that you`re not a good girl. Here, I was a virgin. I was brutally beaten and raped. Nobody did a thing. They wanted to sweep it under the rug, because it hurts the university`s endowment.

So yes, nothing was done until, what, my rapist himself had to confess in a letter. And even then it was a tussle. The guy got under six months of a ten-year sentence. He served six months. Then you have a kid with a dime bag of marijuana who`s going to go away for ten years? I agree with the judge. We are all messed up here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are totally messed up. And you bring me to my big issue tonight. Is this institutionalized sexism?

Please, everybody go to Families Against Mandatory Minimums. Google it, Families Against Mandatory Minimums. You`re going to see story after story after story of people doing life sentences for having a bag of crack, OK. Yet, a rapist can get out of jail in no time. And that`s if they`re even prosecuted and sentenced.

Now, how`s this for horrific? Are you sitting down, people? Only 5 percent of rapists are convicted. Ninety-seven percent of them will never go to prison. Fifteen out of 16 rapists will walk free.

Katie Callaway Hall, your rapist, Philip Garrido, was sentenced to something like half a century. How much time did he actually serve, and how did it devastate you when he was let out early without even telling you?

KATIE CALLAWAY HALL, RAPE VICTIM: Well, he actually served just -- just over 11 years, and it devastated me a lot because, No. 1, I was registered with the victim witness program, and I was to be notified when he was brought up you for parole, and I was never notified.

How I found out was he violated his parole. He hunted me down, and he walked up to my work, my roulette table in the casino I was working, and said hello. And I mean, that just traumatized me like you can`t believe.

And I immediately got on the phone and called his parole officer -- tracked him down to where he was and called his parole officer and made an appointment to see him, to go down and talk to him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WEIL: By a stroke of luck and some good police work, my rapist was finally identified months later. He was caught beating up his pregnant girlfriend at a motel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rape victim Julie Weil, who was raped by the so- called Daycare Rapist in Miami. She`s one of the lucky ones, if you can call her that. Police actually believed her claim, and in the end her rapist was arrested, convicted and sent to prison for life. But that is totally the exception. The rule is completely, completely the other way.

Francis, Georgia, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes, thank you. I feel very strongly that women are not taught today to take responsibility for their own protection. Dressing appropriately, learning that when they`re very young, when they`re very, very young. And then not only dressing appropriately but not going into places where they`re placing themselves at high risk. This doesn`t excuse the man. That`s another subject altogether.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Francis, I have to say I always respect our callers` opinion, but I could not disagree with you more. And that`s why I talk about the psychological burka that women are forced to wear.

Judge Karen Mills-Francis, I am so sick of people saying, "Well, she`s wearing a short skirt. She deserved it."

MILLS-FRANCIS: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nonsense! Nonsense!

MILLS-FRANCIS: You know what? In many ways -- in many ways we`re hypocrites in this country. We point the finger at the way women are treated in the Middle East and in Asia and women trafficking in other countries, but look at the number of women who go missing in this country. We can -- we pick up the paper every day and read about some woman`s body that was found floating in a canal, in a Dumpster somewhere.

Five percent of men who are charged with rape are convicted of rape. That means that 95 percent of men who are charged with rape go free in this country?

No, it`s not about blaming the victim.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? I have to say this. Do you think, Judge Karen, if the men who dominated the criminal justice system experienced something like rape, they would have a different attitude toward rape and want to lock these people up for life, as opposed to letting them out, as in the case we just covered at the top of the show, in four years!

MILLS-FRANCIS: I think -- I think it`s a perception of women and what our value is to men in this country. It hasn`t changed. In many, many ways, it hasn`t changed.

And your caller`s statement about, well, maybe women should think about the way they dress, we should be able to dress any way we want to dress and not have to worry about that some lascivious, psychopathic man is going to drag us down some dark alleyway.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: As a rape survivor, are you offended by that notion that women have to learn to dress appropriately?

SECCURO: I could not be more incensed with that caller. And, you know, clearly, it`s this old-school thinking that is so prevalent.

Right now defense attorneys want women on rape trial juries, because women always want to point the finger at the other women. Well, why was she in a bar? Why was she dressed this way?

Women have the right to feel beautiful and to go out to a bar. Are you saying this police chief`s daughter shouldn`t have gone out? That`s what young people do. I shouldn`t have gone to a fraternity party? Have you been to college?

That caller could not be more wrong. It is time to place the blame specifically on these perpetrators who are the rapists. That`s where the blame belongs. Stop blaming the women.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.

MILLS-FRANCIS: Stop blaming the victim.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to live in a psychological burka? OK? We have to -- we don`t have the right to go out to a party? This is maddening.

We`re going to have more after the break.

And plus, this series, "Hoarders," is stalking. We`re going to show you in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA R. REEDY, RAPE VICTIM: After only meeting Detective Evanston (ph) two times, I lost hope of my attacker being caught because of Detective Evanston`s unwillingness to believe my story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Get this -- this rape victim, Sara Reedy, who courageously testified, said she was robbed, raped and then she was sent to jail because the detective investigating her case did not believe her.

Reedy says her rapist robbed the store where she was working before he sexually assaulted her. But when she reported the rape to police, they accused her of making it all up and stealing the money herself.

I`ve got to go back to Katie Callaway Hall on this. You were kidnapped and raped by Philip Garrido. You were in some kind of a warehouse and you had to call out to the cops and Philip Garrido tried to tell him, oh, you were with his girlfriend, right?

KATIE CALLAWAY HALL, PHILIP GARRIDO`S VICTIM: He did. He did. And I believe he stuck with that story even when he went to prison. But I just found out some information Jane that is very disturbing and relevant to this discussion. I found out that when I went to the parole officer and told him I was afraid and told him Garrido had approached me, we just found out from the parole files that the entry he made that day of my visit, he dismissed me as being hysterical and paranoid.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. How does that make you feel?

CALLAWAY HALL: It infuriates me. So obviously he didn`t believe me, and as a result Garrido was classified as a low-risk sexual offender. And that just enabled him to get Jaycee.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what, Liz Seccuro? This makes me so angry that there is this attitude that if women basically express fear, that they`re dismissed or marginalized by -- let`s face it -- male law enforcement officers mostly, who are saying, she`s hysterical. They can`t have empathy because they haven`t been raped. They don`t know what it`s like.

LIZ SECCURO, RAPE VICTIM: Exactly. And to apply the label of hysterical, I`m sure that -- you know, rape against men happens all the time and I don`t think you would use the word hysterical. It is the absolute taking of somebody`s soul and dignity.

And I want to address something that Katie said. When my rapist was released about three years ago today, I got a call about six months ago. He wants to not be on probation anymore. I`m, like, why not? They`re, like, well, we have a really heavy caseload and he`s been a model parolee.

I`m, like, why not let the people once again who are doing petty, nonviolent crimes -- you can`t not do that. Yet the victim has no say in that.

So that is another marginalization of women as well. And I dare say if it was a male victim or some of these law enforcement officers or it happened to their sons or to themselves, that wouldn`t be happening. It`s infuriating. It is a failure of epic proportions this system.

JUDGE KAREN MILLS FRANCIS: It`s an indication, too, of how law enforcement feels about women because we know that rapists have the highest rate of recidivism among all offenders. Yet we don`t enact statutes to put them away for life. Why not? We know that they are going to commit an offense again against a woman or a child, and yet we don`t enact life statutes against those people. Why is that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Especially if they get off with the rape, if they`re not prosecuted then it`s a no-consequence zone for them.

I want to go back to Liz for a second because you were sexually assaulted when you were a college student. You know, we have this image, which I think to a large degree, of what a rapist might look like whereas the people who raped you, the men who raped you -- and I understand it was more than one -- were these preppy college students. Most of them have never been prosecuted, correct?

SECCURO: Two of them haven`t been prosecuted. They all went to the finest prep schools. Let`s just say Deerfield, Andover, Exeter. I mean, these were the poster boys. They`re kind of like Alex Kelly, from (INAUDIBLE). These were the L.L. Bean, you know preppy handbook people.

You know the rapist doesn`t look like this skivvy guy in the bushes who`s been in the basement trolling the Internet for porn. Rapists are rapists. They come in all shapes and sizes. But the good-looking, charming ones -- that`s how they gain your trust.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I think we have to realize that the media, by reinforcing stereotypes is doing a disservice to women. Women need to know, look at the guy at the start of the show, the clean cut looking guy who is now accused of murdering the daughter of a police chief. Ok.

SECCURO: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to realize that there is no way that a rapist looks and just because poor people generally get covered more for rapes on television because they don`t have the sophisticated lawyers to keep them off camera doesn`t mean that poor people are the rapists and the rich people aren`t. We really have got to change our system to --

MILLS FRANCIS: That`s where our responsibility --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Last word Judge Karen.

MILLS FRANCIS: That`s where our responsibility comes in as women to protect ourselves. That means that you do meet somebody at a bar at 3:00 in the morning, I don`t care how good he looks, you just don`t go home with him. You give yourself time to learn who you`re dealing with. You have responsibility though.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The price for making a mistake like that shouldn`t be death.

MILLS FRANCIS: Of course it shouldn`t be death, but you have to take responsibility.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. But I don`t think women should have to go around wearing a psychological burka, but we`ll continue this discussion. Thank you, courageous women, for your insight.

All right. An epidemic -- a different kind of epidemic, destroying lives and consuming families; we`re talking hoarding. It`s an addiction that can kill.

Last month a Las Vegas woman was buried alive under heaps of junk in her house. She had been missing for four months when her husband finally noticed her feet sticking out from underneath a pile of stuff in the backroom of their home.

Not all hoarding has such deadly consequences, but the jaw-dropping cases featured on this A & E series "Hoarders", they`re unbelievable. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t mean to be pushing and prodding, but this is all we`ve got.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is her dining room table. So this is three feet deep.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone reported the house for the smell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve seen what all week what hoarding does to a family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s ok.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want to go to jail on Monday?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we don`t start to challenge his thinking, then nothing is going to be fixed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John just changed everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John, you`re sabotaging what we`re trying to do here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re saying it`s your way or the highway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, what triggers this out-of-control craving to consume and consume and keep all this garbage, even if it wreaks havoc on families, finances, physical and mental health?

Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to my very special guest, Robin Zasio -- ok, Zasio -- clinical psychologist on A & E`s "Hoarder"; we`re so delighted to have you here. Congratulations on your hit show. Is hoarding on the rise in America, doctor?

ROBIN ZASIO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST, A&E, "HOARDER": It absolutely is. This is it a condition that`s been here for a really long time. With the creation of the series "Hoarders", it has blown this epidemic wide open. And that`s why we`re seeing more and more people being featured in the news who are suffering from this problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s take another look at a disturbing clip from this groundbreaking A & E series "Hoarders". It`s really fascinating. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIELLE: My name is Danielle. I`m 7 years old. My house is really messy. I can`t even name one room right now that I know is clean.

ABIGAIL: My name is Abigail and I`m 10. We had to clear a place on the table to eat dinner and stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a parent, I would never let my child go into a house that looks like this. And yet here I am letting them live in it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robin, tell us about this family. I understand one of the girls was exhibiting hoarding signs at age 11?

ZASIO: Yes. You know, not only are there chemical influences to the condition, there`s environmental. And as a result of the mother`s bringing in items and holding on to them and not letting go, the children started to pick up on those behaviors as well.

So when I went into the house, it was equally, equally important that I address these behaviors with the children as well while I was there so that when the aftercare services came in once we were done, they could continue that process because we do see this running in families.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, this next clip from the A & E Web site for "Hoarders" features a woman who clearly knows she has got a problem, but she is powerless over it. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My house sucks. It`s embarrassing, shameful, irrational, disgusting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t imagine what it`s like for those kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me and my baby brother probably will be taken away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It kills me that my grandson does not have a bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our clutter started when her mom died.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I came into a house like this, I would feel a moral obligation to turn somebody in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s my big issue. Are we a hoarding nation? The evidence to me points to yes. We have so much excess junk, the number of self-storage facilities in this country has skyrocketed.

Check this out. The total amount of land covered by self-storage facilities is the size of San Francisco and Manhattan combined. Guess what? These storage units didn`t even exist until the 1970s.

Dr. Zasio, have we achieved such bizarre levels of overconsumption that we`re becoming a nation of hoarding addicts?

ZASIO: Well, I think we have to remember that acquiring stuff is on a continuum. So when we (AUDIO) talking about acquiring things to the point where it`s become a clinical problem, they`re having infestations. The children are being affected. Other family members are being affected.

The reality is, to your point, is that we certainly are in a society where the message is that more is better. You know, we are competing with the Joneses, if you will.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to bring in Dr. Alan Lipman --

DR. ALAN LIPMAN, LICENSED CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Dr. Alan Lipman, I do feel this. I mean, I have really begun to shed stuff, which you know, is never really thrown away. It`s only moved.

LIPMAN: Good for you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Garbage is never -- garbage is never thrown out. It`s just moved.

LIPMAN: Who needs that old DVD of player? Everybody who`s watching, take that old DVD player that is sitting there and getting dust and get rid of it.

Listen, what Robin is saying about this disorder, which is a part of a set of disorders called is OCD, is absolutely right. That while we are more of a hoarding nation, as Jane points out and Robin reinforces, it has to be actually impairing to your social life or your work or your family functioning in order to be a disorder.

Now, let me tell you, there are things that are even worse than this. When I started working on the OCD unit --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton in trouble.

LIPMAN: -- at Yale there were people wrapped up in --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They`re young, they`re hot, they`re rich, and Hollywood is their tainted playground.

Tonight the heiress and the addict: Paris pleads guilty and a warrant is issued for Lindsay Lohan`s arrest. Their lives appear to be a blur of cocaine, alcohol, and nonstop partying. Will Hollywood justice continue to let Paris and Lindsay fly above the law?

Just weeks after getting out of the slammer and going to rehab, Lindsay flunks her drug test. She admits she fell off the wagon tweeting, "I did fail my most recent drug test." A warrant has just been issued for her arrest.

Will Lindsay be going back to jail? And this time, if she is going back to jail, will she serve her sentence?

Plus, Paris Hilton avoids the big house. After a wild night in Las Vegas, the socialite was arrested, the cops found cocaine in her purse. At first she insisted, "oh no that handbag is not mine" and the cocaine, well that was chewing gum.

Tonight -- Paris pleads guilty and finally admits she lied to police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARIS HILTON, CELEBRITY HEIRESS: I was in possession as well as telling the officer that the bag wasn`t mine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, first of all as to the possession, what did you possess?

HILTON: Cocaine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Paris got a slap in the wrist, of course; a year of probation, no jail time. This is an outrage. It makes me furious. There is a two-tiered system of justice in this country, and that what you just saw right there is proof of it.

Lindsay and Paris, you know they`re no strangers -- look at the mug shots that these women have, all right? They have been booked at least, what, three -- three times each? Why are these celebutantes still getting special treatments?

Straight out to my fantastic panel and we begin with syndicated radio host Carlos Diaz. My good buddy Carlos, what the heck can we expect with Lindsay Lohan? And what`s happening now? I think Friday is the big day, right?

CARLOS DIAZ, SYNDICATED RADIO HOST: Yes, Friday is the big day. An issue -- a warrant has been issued for her arrest and it`s being held until Friday where she has to appear in court. Keep in mind, Jane, she`s looking at 30 days for each failed drug test.

So it could be 60 days if the judge actually has the onions to do what he should have done the first time, which is to throw her behind bars for the time that she needs. And, by the way, Lindsay is an actress, and actresses act. And that`s what she did at UCLA. She acted and got out because she gave the performance of her life and look at this, right back on the blow.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, she`s always acting and which brings me to my big issue: Hollywood justice. Lindsay put on the performance of a lifetime in court. We all saw it just three short months ago. Let`s have an encore performance now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I know I was ordered to go once a week, and I wasn`t -- you know, I wasn`t missing the classed. I wouldn`t do anything like that. I was working mostly and in Morocco, the trip, I was working with children. It wasn`t a vacation. It wasn`t some sort of a joke. And I respect you and I`ve been taking you seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. And we later learned that she had "F-U" written on her fingernails that she held up there.

Paris Hilton is on unsupervised probation. She doesn`t even have to check in with a probation officer.

She`s also completing a drug program and doing 200 hours of community service and she got a $2,000 fine, which is like a nickel for this girl.

I`ve got to go to Allison Hope Weiner, you`re the senior writer for the "Hollywood Reporter", ok.

ALLISON HOPE WEINER, SENIOR WRITER THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am sick and tired of these lawyers getting on camera and saying, oh this is what everybody would get. Nonsense, they are getting preferential treatment because they are rich and famous.

I spoke to a young woman today whose brother is doing 15 years of hard time behind bars because he was on probation and he was caught associating with drug dealers, who happens to be African-American.

WEINER: I -- I don`t think that they`re getting preferential treatment in the sense that they`re celebrities as much as they`re getting preferential treatment in the sense that they can afford the best counsel that money can buy.

So I think that they have very fine lawyers and I think that other wealthy people in the country find themselves with a similar kind of representation. So I assume that whoever you were hearing about, that -- if they had a similar offense, that they probably didn`t have the quality - -

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not rich.

WEINER: Yes. They probably didn`t have the quality --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not rich and minority.

WEINER: Right, well --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not rich and minority.

WEINER: -- neither -- neither helps in this country in terms of the legal system.

But I would have to say that I also think, when you talk about Paris Hilton, I think that she`s had quite -- even more bites at the apple than Lindsay. I mean, it`s almost like she as an international drug smuggler at this point in terms of how many different places she`s been arrested.

In terms of Lindsay --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well --

WEINER: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let me go on here.

TMZ is reporting that Lindsay Lohan failed the two drug tests.

Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of the Hills Treatment Center in Los Angeles. Ok, one for cocaine, which is, guess what, in case anybody is not aware, cocaine is illegal -- against the law -- and the other one is amphetamines.

Now some were speculating oh maybe that`s some of her medications. But a blogger suggested maybe its crystal meth. I`m just asking, Dr. Howard Samuels.

DR. HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER/CEO HILLS TREATMENT CENTER, LOS ANGELES: Well, I`ve got to tell you Jane, once again I`m outraged because of the arrogance and the entitlement of these two women. It`s par for the course for Hollywood and addiction and alcoholism.

What really needs to happen, yes, they need to pay for it and go to treatment, but not 30 days. They need to spend a year in a drug and alcohol treatment center. If they leave against the wishes they need to then go to jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Doctor on the other side you`re going to complete your sentence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARIS HILTON, CELEBRITY HEIRESS: It was a very traumatic experience, but I feel like God does make everything happen for a reason. It gave me, you know, a time-out in life just to really find out what is important and what I want to do, figure out who I am.

Even though it was really hard I took that time just to sort of get to know myself.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Think it changed you?

HILTON: Yes, definitely. I have a new outlook on life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, obviously, it didn`t change her that much. That was in 2007. Now, caught with cocaine, again; now, she`s saying she`s a changed woman, again. The celebutante who cried "Wolf"; that`s what we are talking about here.

Joe Indiana, your questions or thought, sir.

JOE, INDIANA (via telephone): Yes, ma`am. Why was she caught with cocaine twice? I get a public intoxication and I serve 90 days in jail. Is it because I don`t have a high profile lawyer or is it because nobody knows who I am?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, this is what I`m talking about, Howard Samuels. I have to tell you, while I was having my make-up done and we were looking at this story breaking today about Lindsay and Paris, somebody turned to me and said, you know, my brother is doing 15 years because he was caught associating with drug dealers in the general vicinity while he was on probation. He didn`t have any drugs on him. And now he`s doing 15 years.

You know, this has got to create resentment in America between the haves and have notes, does it not?

SAMUELS: Jane, you`re absolutely right. I mean an addict is an addict. Rich, poor, no matter what color you are -- addiction is an addiction. What`s so sad about this is that these two women are getting away with it. Their addiction is going to continue until they are put away in a treatment center, not prison because a treatment center is where they are going to recover, but for a year, not 30 days, a solid year.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Now a skit with Chelsea Handler during the MTV Video Music Awards with Lindsay Lohan, fresh out of rehab; she`s poking fun at her addiction. Listen to this from MTV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: Have you been drinking?

CHELSEA HANDLER, TALK SHOW HOST: No.

LOHAN: Really? Then why is your ankle bracelet going off?

HANDLER: Oh that just means that my table is ready at the Cheesecake Factory.

LOHAN: Wake up Handler. Pull it together. You`re a mess. Do you think anyone wants to work with a drunk? Take it from me, they don`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Carlos Diaz, I was warned when I saw that clip I said it`s too soon for her to be joking about her new-found sobriety.

DIAZ: Too soon, not too soon, it didn`t matter. She was doing cocaine that week. Here`s the thing, she pulled an all-nighter reportedly the next day. That`s the crazy thing.

We can analyze Lindsay Lohan up and down about her career. Her career is quickly becoming over because she`s going to be spending way too much time behind bars, in rehab and with today`s economy nobody wants to put up the money to insure her in a movie. So Lindsay`s career -- kaput.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Allison (INAUDIBLE), she also has money problems right now.

HOPE WEINER: Yes. I think the real problem here is that we are discussing or that anybody was discussing the state of her career. As soon as she got out of rehab, her first concern was to get back to work and to start providing income for herself and all the people that live off of her.

The issue really is, is that when -- not so much what exactly is the sentence, but when somebody goes into rehab, do you send them right back to work in the same environment where they had problems before and not care what happens to them?

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there.

Nancy Grace has got more on Paris Hilton.

END