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NANCY GRACE

Stepmother Reportedly Wrote She Found Zahra Dead

Aired November 4, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. The little girl, Zahra, completely dependent on two hearing aids, can only walk with a prosthetic leg after losing her left leg to bone cancer. She vanishes into thin air, her bedroom empty, prosthetic leg missing, hearing aids left behind. Last person to see Zahra alive, stepmommy.

Did stepmommy confess to writing a phony million-dollar ransom note? Stepmommy gets rid of Zahra`s mattress just 48 hours before finally reporting Zahra gone. A mattress believed to be Zahra`s spattered with DNA uncovered by landfill workers. Is it the blood of 10-year-old Zahra? Little Zahra`s prosthetic leg found discarded in brush off a county back road. K9s, police, search teams, backhoes swarm the Baker home and start digging. A secret grand jury charges stepmommy in Zahra`s disappearance, while investigators rip out sheetrock from Zahra`s bedroom wall, seizing her furniture.

We obtain exclusive letters written by stepmommy from behind jailhouse walls, saying what Adam Baker did to Zahra was, quote, "horrifying," admitting she`s a pagan worshiper, obsessed with Halloween, vampires and the dark arts, blaming Zahra for beating cancer, complaining about photos of herself seen on TV and about having to cover up her tattoos and her beloved body piercings. Stepmommy admits she wants to be a TV star and whines about missing her waterbed. In the last 24 hours, a bone believed to be Zahra`s discovered while police drain a pond for the 10-year-old`s prosthetic leg found.

Bombshell tonight. We learn of yet another jailhouse letter where stepmommy claims she, quote, "found Zahra dead," also claims she`s behind bars because of Zahra`s dad, Adam Baker. In another twist, stepmommy says Zahra had been sick again, although relatives and friends cannot confirm that illness. As that exhausting search now enters day two in the hope of finding more of Zahra`s bones, tonight, what happened to 10-year-old Zahra?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You ought to be in jail! You ought to be (INAUDIBLE)

ADAM BAKER, ZAHRA`S FATHER: It appears they may have taken my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) fresh (ph) blood (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t believe that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bone.

GRACE: A bone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Recovered a bone.

GRACE: A child`s bone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators found a bone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fifteen to twenty cop cars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looking for more evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Outside of the gated area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Ninety-eight percent of the media stuff is lies."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wants to tell her story, she said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you miss your stepdaughter?

GRACE: Psychopath.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Narcissistic psychobabble.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Narcissistic psycho.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I have told the cops everything I know about what`s happened to Zahra."

GRACE: Not one mention.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me, me, me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s ugly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "We really didn`t kill her, but what he did after the fact is kind of horrifying."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something horrific happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Makes me scared of him."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was horrified.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Dark love always, Elisa."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live, Arizona. A father of four vanishes without a trace, apparently leaving voluntarily, until investigators head to the Tucson desert to find remains of missing dad. Cops hone in on two suspects. Suspect number one, Daddy`s own 16-year-old little girl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have arrested a 16-year-old girl for murder after her father`s decomposed body was found in a desert area near their home. Police say the father, Andres Sanchez (ph), had been missing for 10 days, and authorities had recently gathered information showing the disappearance was suspicious. After questioning family members, police learned that Andres`s daughter, 16-year-old Clarissa Sanchez (ph), and her alleged boyfriend, 19-year-old Larry Coronado (ph), may be responsible for the disappearance. Police began searching the area and soon found the body of an adult male believed to be Andres with obvious signs of trauma, the body in such a condition that positive identification could not immediately be made. Sanchez and Coronado are facing first degree murder charges and remain behind bars on no bond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, we learn of yet more jailhouse letters from stepmommy, this time claiming she, quote, "found Zahra dead."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAKER: My daughter`s been taken.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A new twist for a missing North Carolina girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the search for missing Zahra Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Found a bone.

GRACE: Believed to be Zahra`s.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Recovered a bone.

911 OPERATOR: Your daughter`s missing?

BAKER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think happened to Zahra?

BAKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sleeping.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sleeping.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything`s a possibility at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another twist in a bizarre and troubling murder investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I sure miss my warm waterbed."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The letters are fascinating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "There are so many missing kids, but Zahra isn`t missing."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ll never be used against her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The cops know where she is, and what he has done."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something very terrible happened to a little girl.

GRACE: Doesn`t look good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Some girls want to be princesses when they grow up. I want to be a vampire. We really didn`t kill her, but what he did after the fact is kind of horrifying. Makes me scared him. So I probably am going to go ahead and file. I have lost my whole life anyway. I have been filtered a little of what the media is saying about me, from drug problems to witchcraft. I`ve never had a drug problem. And people think paganism is devil worshiping. Own (ph) world is so full of hypocrites."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Natisha Lance standing by in Hudson, North Carolina, at the search site. Natisha, number one, the search is entering into day two in the hopes of finding another one of Zahra`s bones. And more jailhouse letters have now surfaced. What have we learned?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I spoke to a cousin of Elisa Baker just before we went to air, and she says family members have received at least four letters from Elisa Baker behind bars. Now, in this letter, she says that she is worried about Zahra. She also says that they did not kill Zahra. And she continues to say that she is behind bars because of Adam Baker. But in another letter that was written to another family member, Elisa Baker allegedly says that Zahra Baker -- she found Zahra Baker dead and that Zahra had been sick for quite some time.

GRACE: Really? You know what? That`s exactly what I do, Dr. Bethany Marshall. When I find somebody`s been sick and passed away, I immediately throw their prosthetic limbs to the side of the road and discard their body. I put it right in the wood chipper, and it`s all said and done. That doesn`t make sense!

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, given that this mother is so shallow, so self-absorbed, so self-referential in all of these letters, I would take everything she says as a lie and as minimizing and obfuscating what really happened. When she said that Zahra was sick for a period of time, I hear she made Zahra sick for a period of time.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Back out to Natisha Lance standing there at the search. Natisha, this is day two after finding the bone believed to be Zahra`s. And this really confirms all of our educated speculations that this is where they found the bone, although they`re not telling us that, because if they found the one bone somewhere else, they would be there searching, but they`re here. What about the pond draining?

LANCE: They have completed that pond draining at this point. They said that they didn`t find anything of evidentiary value in the pond. But they were back here all day today, 30 to 40 searchers doing line searches shoulder to shoulder, looking for any type of evidence that could continue to lead them to what happened to Zahra Baker. They said that it`s a pretty torrential (ph) area that they are searching through. They have to clear away lots of brush in this area. You can see on video that they are raking, putting things together through different piles of brush. They don`t know how long they will be back at the search area, but they are committed to being here as long as it takes, Nancy.

GRACE: Now, are you telling me, Natisha Lance, that 40 people shoulder to shoulder walked through that brush?

LANCE: Well, Nancy, they`re using a grid search through a computerized system. And the grid tells them which areas they have searched, which areas they need to search. It`s a pretty large area. This stretch of road is about two to three miles, and there is wooded area, heavy wooded area on both sides of that street. So that`s how they are locating the different areas that they need to search and continuing to progress with their search based on that.

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, physician, professor of public health, Johns Hopkins, joining us tonight out of Chicago. Dr. Marty, if you looked at, for instance, a dog bone, wouldn`t you know immediately that it`s not a human bone?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, JOHNS HOPKINS: You would know immediately, unless it were a small fragment. But bones are very unique, and a child`s bone is unique because the growth plate hasn`t formed. And there are certain characteristics where a lot of it`s cartilage, and you can tell it`s the bone of a child. You know, it`s got rings so you can look at it like a tree and tell what the age is.

GRACE: To Paul Penzone, former sergeant, Phoenix PD, child advocate. Paul Penzone, this is what the circumstances are telling me.

For those of you just joining us, more jailhouse letters surfacing tonight -- actually, in the last hour -- in which stepmommy writes that she found Zahra dead. She blames her being behind bars on something Adam Baker did, Zahra`s father. And in yet another jailhouse letter, she says that Zahra had been sick for a really long time, suggesting the child died of natural causes. Then I guess they just hid the body.

Paul Penzone, what this is all saying to me is this is where they found the bone. It is a human bone. It is a child`s bone. And if all of that is true, it`s got to be Zahra`s bone because a doctor would be able to tell immediately if this were not a human bone.

PAUL PENZONE, FMR. SGT., PHOENIX PD: Absolutely. And what they`re talking about when they say the grid search and the line search -- they literally should take weeks to search that area foot by foot. A grid search is everything broken into blocks. A line search is everyone shoulder to shoulder going through that area to ensure that they do not overlook any detail.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Rhonda in Alabama. Hi, Rhonda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`m glad I finally got to talk to you. And by the way, John David looks just like you! My question is, in the state of Alabama -- I`m sure these people are on disability, food stamps and Social Security on this little child. Why wasn`t a social worker sent out to the home at least once every couple of months or so to check on the conditions and on the child? I think North Carolina`s doing a lot of slacking in their system, Nancy.

GRACE: What about it Marc Klaas? Marc Klaas joining us, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. If they were getting government aid, shouldn`t there be people checking on them? And what do you make of the search in this area, now entering day two, along with stepmommy`s new story that Zahra had been sick and she found Zahra dead?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Sure. Well, first of all, they don`t need to be getting any kind of government assistance for a social worker to go to the home. There were apparently plenty of reports from neighbors and friends that this little girl was being abused. That alone is justification enough to send social workers to the home.

As far as the grid search goes, I agree with everybody. And I would suggest that one of the ways that they`re using scientific equipment to do this is that each one of the searchers has an individual GPS tracking device on that they use and superimpose over a map so they can tell exactly and specifically where they have been.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the search for the missing North Carolina girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the search for Zahra.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they found a prosthetic leg.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say it (ph). Say it (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Off Christie Road in Caldwell County.

GRACE: Proves Zahra is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are searching several areas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have been very tight-lipped about this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back to the family home in Hickory.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a wooded area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where technicians are recovering additional pieces of evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Concern about Zahra has spread (ph).

BAKER: Just keep looking, just try and find (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now being accused by his wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The cops know where she is and what he has done."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every move these people make.

BAKER: I don`t know.

I don`t know.

I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incriminates them more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the search for Zahra Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra is a cancer patient who has a prosthetic leg and hearing aids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say they`ve found a bone that may be related to the 10-year-old`s disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "We really didn`t kill her, but what he did afterward the fact is kind of horrifying."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This outcome will not be positive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very clear that this child has been murdered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shocking discovery. Search teams say they`ve recovered a bone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Nothing has went the way it was supposed to, not yet so far."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "We really didn`t kill her, but what he did after the fact is kind of horrifying. Makes me scared him. So I probably am going to go ahead and file. I have lost my whole life anyway. I have been filtered a little of what the media is saying about me, from drug problems to witchcraft. I`ve never had a drug problem. And people think paganism is devil worshiping. Own (ph) world is so full of hypocrites."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Was 10-year-old Zahra dismembered? Take a look at the facts. Number one, her prosthetic leg discarded in overgrown brush. Number two, a bone believed to be Zahra`s found. Number three, we know that both cars, both the family cars -- and we believe there may be a third one, but both family cars were hit on by cadaver dogs. What about it, Ellie Jostad?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: You`re right, Nancy. And another thing to keep in mind, too -- we know that in the search of the home, police ripped out plumbing. Now, that could suggest that they thought there could be blood or tissue or other DNA evidence in drains, in pipes, as if there had been some sort of dismemberment taking place in the house. Now, that`s one theory that`s out there.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Dawn in Arizona. Hi, Dawn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello? Nancy?

GRACE: Hi, dear. You`re on. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment. When the father was talking on TV, he was stating that his daughter was getting moody and maybe she was going through puberty. Is that going to be their excuse when they find blood?

GRACE: You know what? It`s my understanding, Dr. Marty Makary, that it`s very easy to determine blood that`s flowed through your body as opposed to menstrual blood.

MAKARY: Yes, based on the clotting properties, it`s very easy to tell where the blood came from and what the circumstances were. We know she suffered a lot, and certainly, blood loss was nothing unique for her. Bone cancer is know to be very painful.

GRACE: To David Lohr, crime reporter at AOLNews.com, who first uncovered the exclusive letters he shared with us. David, thank you for being with us -- David joining us tonight from Cleveland. David, what do you make of now more jailhouse letters, these saying that Zahra was sick for a long time and that they found her dead? Yet she also says, conflictingly, that she`s behind bars because of what Adam Baker did. How do you compare that to the letters that you got ahold of, David Lohr?

DAVID LOHR, AOLNEWS.COM (via telephone): Well, I think these latest letters are highly interesting. I mean, they go right along the lines of the ones that we`ve received from Serialkillersinc last week, specifically was (ph) she said, We really didn`t kill her, but what he did after the fact was kind of horrifying. So you take that with these new letters, and it`s really starting to paint a very bleak picture of the situation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have investigators found Zahra Baker?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think happened to Zahra?

BAKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not looking for a body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search teams say they`ve recovered a bone that could be related to the Zahra Baker case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Zahra isn`t missing. The cops know where she is and what he has done."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no desperation in his voice.

BAKER: My name is Adam Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no urgency.

BAKER: It appears they may have taken my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "We really didn`t kill her, but what he did after the fact is kind of horrifying."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. For those of you just joining us, the search is in now day two in the hopes of finding another bone of little Zahra`s, this as we discover more jailhouse letters written from behind the jailhouse walls by stepmommy, this time claiming she found Zahra dead.

Unleash the lawyers. If she found Zahra dead, Eleanor, why not call 911?

ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Exactly. Little Zahra...

GRACE: And I don`t mean to report a fake fire and a phony ransom note.

ELEANOR ODOM: Exactly. And little Zahra had been sick so much of her life. She`d had cancer. She`d gone through many health problems. So why not call the doctor if she`s truly sick? I`m wondering what kind of cover- up stepmommy`s doing now with all these letters from jail.

GRACE: What about it, Peter Odom? If she found Zahra dead, why not call 911?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. She`s just floating that, Nancy, to try and get some kind of reaction. It`s a silly story, doesn`t add up with all the rest of the evidence. Where this case is headed, inevitably, is that she`s going to be pointing the finger at the husband and the husband`s going to be pointing the finger at her. There`s nowhere else it can go. The evidence against them both is mounting.

GRACE: Peter Odom -- put him up, please! You are in the position by your own choosing of being a criminal defense attorney.

PETER ODOM: Yes. And by...

GRACE: I`m giving you the facts.

PETER ODOM: Yes.

GRACE: Now, what`s your defense?

PETER ODOM: If I`m Mom`s attorney, I`m pointing at Dad. If I`m Dad`s attorney, I`m pointing at Mom. I`m telling you that the way the evidence is mounting up...

GRACE: That`s original.

PETER ODOM: That`s the only way they`re going to go. It`s not about being original, it`s about trying to figure out the best defense for them, Nancy.

GRACE: What about it, Alex Sanchez?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, most people are expressing absolutely disdain and horror at her behavior and those written statements that she had made. There`s a complete alternate explanation here in that this woman is under...

GRACE: I got...

SANCHEZ: ... the complete dominion and control...

GRACE: ... a (INAUDIBLE) for this, Liz.

SANCHEZ: ... of someone else. And we know who that person is. In effect, she`s under the spell...

GRACE: Who?

SANCHEZ: ... of this husband that...

GRACE: Oh.

SANCHEZ: ... that was in her house and wondering whether or not she was operating at his command and control.

GRACE: So you`re going to try and imply the battered women defense syndrome to stepmommy murdering her daughter?

SANCHEZ: You know, she`s a very disturbed individual. It wouldn`t surprise me in this case.

GRACE: You know, I don`t think it works that way. I think having done it for about two decades is when you snap and you kill the beater, the abuser. You don`t kill your stepdaughter and blame it on domestic abuse by your husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have said she`s dead. They`re trying to find out where she was murdered, in my mind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police searching the home again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homicide investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could they be getting closer to finding Zahra Baker?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news for you right now in the Zahra Baker case.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A heartbreaking horrific story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a homicide investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Hickory Police Department is telling us a bone has been found in Caldwell County.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 10-year-old Zahra Baker.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: But she`s dead.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Presumed murdered.

CHIEF TOM ATKINS, HICKORY POLICE: A homicide investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like I said, my lawyers don`t tell me all the world is saying. But if it is anything like these letters, OMG.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They found her prosthetic leg.

GRACE: They knew where to go find that leg.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Based on a tip.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That bone is being sent to the medical examiner`s office right now in Chapel Hill for further examination.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elisa Baker did take authorities through that area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean I never thought it would be this way. My lawyers get death threats every day, too. This is so crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elisa Baker, the stepmother, used to reside in that area.

GRACE: They`re sifting through very, very carefully.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The bone has been found and Hickory Police believe it may be connected to her case.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They appeared to be looking for something small.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did they discard her body?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities still want to find Zahra Baker.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: For those of you just joining us, police now in day two of searching this one densely wooded area in the hopes of finding another of little Zahra`s bones. The circumstances now leading many criminologists to believe that little Zahra was actually dismembered.

This as we uncover even more jailhouse letters written by step mommy during her brief stay behind bars so far. Claiming that she found Zahra dead.

We are taking your calls, but right now, out live to the search site. Standing by is Melissa Mahlenbrock. She actually lives across the street from where the prosthetic leg belonging to little Zahra was first found.

Melissa, you`ve been watching this now for two straight days. What have you seen?

MELISSA MAHLENBROCK, LIVES ACROSS STREET FROM ZAHRA SEARCH AREA: Well, today like yesterday, we have the Love Lady Rescue Special Operations truck back out there. Again maybe 30 to 40 people with the shovels and the digging utensils.

Today is different than any other day before such as, instead of blocking off all of Christie, which would be two to three miles, they have specifically blocked off a certain area that`s about a quarter of mile today.

They have it blocked off where I can`t get to my house or out of my house without having to go around behind to Dilmore (ph) Road. So they`re specifically looking in a certain area, and I`ve noticed that they have gone farther back and towards the right where the pond is opposed to right behind the gated area.

GRACE: Melissa Mahlenbrock joining us. She`s been watching this all unfold since day one, when little Zahra`s prosthetic leg was found. Pretty much across the street from her home. Discarded in overgrown brush on a county backroad.

Melissa, have you spoken to any of the searchers?

MAHLENBROCK: No, I`ve not spoken to any of the searchers. I have asked police on the way in because I have to show my license to get to my house to prove that I live there. And all they say is that they will be here for as long as they possibly need to.

GRACE: Wow. So they`re not about to pack up and leave. They are dead set on searching this area with a fine tooth comb. It can really only mean one thing, that they believe that bone does belong to 10-year-old Zahra, which according to many criminologists suggests that the little girl was dismembered.

I mean, think about it, Eleanor Odom. You`ve got her, the step mommy, in a letter saying what Adam Baker did to Zahra is horrifying. You have a leg, part of a body found in this area. You also found a prosthetic leg in this area. You also know that a wood chipper was the focus of cadaver dogs.

We also know that not one but two cars were hit on by cadaver dogs, which suggests that the body was either moved from one car to the next, why would they do that? Or that body parts went into two separate cars, Eleanor.

ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Exactly, Nancy. And something else, don`t forget, is the fire. And I just wonder if they also tried to discard any part of the body in the fire. So that concerns me along with the wood chipper, and so many of us have seen the movie "Fargo" where that was used to dispose of a body. So that`s out there and could be done.

GRACE: Well, it`s actually been used in real life, too. I don`t think that they would use the fire to get rid of body parts or any evidence because it`s right there in their yard.

I mean, come on, a fake fire, a fake ransom note? What more do these people need to do? Do they need to take out an ad in "The New York Post," I killed Zahra?

Out to the lines, Marsha in Colorado. Hi, Marsha.

MARSHA, CALLER FROM COLORADO: Hello, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call. I apologize first of all because I`m going to divert from what you all are talking about now, and I certainly don`t want to detract from the real story, but on last night`s show, there was a very brief mention of step mommy being on suicide watch?

Do you think this woman would really attempt or commit suicide and miss out on all this attention?

GRACE: Marsha, you should be a shrink because you are exactly right. No way is this lady going to off herself. She`s sticking in there, she`ll be in there until the bitter end. She loves herself way too much.

Didn`t you hear about in her letters how she wants to be a TV star? Come on, please, she`s not close to killing herself. What`s your question? Do I still have Marsha?

MARSHA: Yes, yes, that was my question.

GRACE: OK.

MARSHA: This whole thing is just so horrific. We saw the parents of the children on Jane Velez-Mitchell and how -- I don`t know, it`s just -- it`s beyond me how people can do that to children.

GRACE: You know what, Marsha, you`re right.

Bethany Marshall, agree or disagree? They seem to have put this woman on suicide watch, why, I don`t know. Big waste of money. Maybe they just want her in isolation.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think they`re just watching their P`s and Q`s because there`s so much public attention on this case.

But to piggyback on what Marsha was saying, remember, step mommy had fictitious disorder, meaning that she made up sickness, she pretended that she had brain cancer, she was in a wheelchair.

So it`s possible that as a child killer, she could have mimicked what it was like to be a serial killer, like watch TVs, read the wires and then dismembered the body because this is what serial killers do.

GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation.

Marc Klaas, weigh-in.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Maybe she is a serial killer. You know, maybe she is. What do we know about this woman? Everything we know about her is absolutely ghoulish.

And to respond to what Alex was saying about battered woman syndrome. Remember, her own children are afraid of this woman. Her daughter is afraid for her own safety when she`s around this woman. And this was long before she got together with Adam Baker.

This woman is -- has got awful, horrible dark tendencies and she seems to love to find ways to play them out. I wouldn`t be surprised at anything, at any turn of events in this case now. This is just -- this is something out of a grade B horror movie out of Hollywood.

GRACE: You know, Alex Sanchez, Marc Klaas brings up an excellent point. You are actually trying to trot out the battered women`s defense.

Her own children, one of them, her natural daughter took the stand and said please don`t let my mom out of jail, judge, I`m afraid she`ll kill me. I fear for my own safety. That is not a battered woman.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, but what I`m suggesting here, Nancy, is that she`s obviously a very troubled person with this paganism and this witchcraft.

GRACE: There we go from battered woman to she`s a devil worshipper.

SANCHEZ: And she has -- and if you look at those -- if you look at those letter, Nancy, she is afraid of her husband. And how do we know he`s not the guilty party?

GRACE: She never says she`s afraid of him.

SANCHEZ: And how do we know he did not intimidate her into writing those letters and those ransom notes? How can you assume that that`s not the case?

GRACE: Well, because she`s behind bars writing the letters and he hasn`t visited her one time.

SANCHEZ: You know what?

GRACE: So he hasn`t intimidated her into writing anything.

SANCHEZ: Point to one piece of evidence right now indicating that she actually murdered that child? Say it on the air right now.

GRACE: OK, Alex. You point to one piece of evidence that he made her write these letters.

SANCHEZ: Well, if you look at that last letter that she wrote, she said I`m kind of afraid of him. And then when she`s implicating him, she`s very halting. She`s very hesitant in the way she said --

GRACE: You think she`s making it up?

SANCHEZ: -- kind of did something horrifying. She`s afraid of that guy.

GRACE: You know what, I respect you. I respect you for coming up with that defense.

Back to the lines, Debra in Vermont, hi, Debra.

DEBRA, CALLER FROM VERMONT: Hi, Nancy, thank you for all the work you do for victims of crime. I was just wondering, was there any abuse charges against Zahra -- her family when they were in Australia, and was this woman with her father in Australia?

GRACE: No. We don`t know of any abuse allegations out of Australia. Remember she lived with her grandmother there. But as far as abuse allegations here, DFACS had been called many times to the home.

But back to David Lohr, crime reporter, AOLNews.com, we wouldn`t have the letters if it weren`t for him.

David, are you surprised there are more letters floating around out there?

DAVID LOHR, CRIME REPORTER, AOLNEWS.COM: No, I`m not surprised. When we talked to the police department the other day, they said they had these copies of a bunch of letters that she had sent out.

And I would also like to mention what your caller said about suicide watch. We`ve since learned that that`s not true. She is not on suicide watch. She made that up for whatever reason.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": What they do now they`re trying to recover the remains.

KLAAS: This is so diabolical.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody actually treated her like she was a doll.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would make fun of the child for not walking fast enough.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And with her (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would slap her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of insanity would allow people to just take her leg?

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sixteen-year-old Arizona girl faces murder charges after police say she and her alleged 19-year-old boyfriend killed her father.

Father of four Andres Sanchez was last seen October 20. Family members initially believed he left by choice. Cops have recently obtained information showing Andres` disappearance was suspicious and began questioning family members.

Homicide detectives learned that Andres`s daughter Clarissa Sanchez and her alleged boyfriend Larry Coronado were allegedly responsible for the disappearance and were taken in for questioning.

Hours later a body believed to be Andres was found in a desert area with obvious signs of trauma. Police believe Andres was killed inside his home and then dumped in the desert area. Clarissa Sanchez and Larry Coronado both face first-degree murder charges in the death.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: So suspect number one turns out to be daddy`s little girl?

Paul Birmingham, news director, Newstalk 790 KNST, joining us out of Tucson. Paul, what do we know?

PAUL BIRMINGHAM, NEWS DIRECTOR, NEWSTALK 790 KNST: Right now we`ve just gotten off the phone with Tucson Police. They do confirm that Clarissa Sanchez, the daughter, and Larry Raymond Coronado, 19-year-old, boyfriend and girlfriend. They are in the Pima County Jail right now. They`re being held on no bond at this point, Nancy.

GRACE: What could be the possible motivation, Paul Birmingham?

BIRMINGHAM: At this point police are being pretty tight lipped about any possible motive. Initially the family thought that he had left by choice, that is the victim, Andres. However, they later learned about 10 days later, they worked on some clues, and they found his body the following day in a desert area very, very close to an elementary school which is pretty disturbing in this case.

GRACE: OK. Back it up, Paul Birmingham. We are taking your calls live. A teen girl and her boyfriend now the chief suspects in the murder of her own father.

Paul Birmingham joining us out of Newstalk 790 KNST. Paul, start at the beginning. What do we know?

BIRMINGHAM: Essentially it all started back on October 20th. That is when 38-year-old Andres Sanchez was initially reported missing. Now family members at first believed that he had left on his own.

Fast forward to about 10 days later, and this was last Sunday, when Tucson Police were called to the home on Tucson`s Southwest Side. They became suspicious. The next day they went out to a desert area after doing some questioning early on Monday morning. And that is where they found Mr. Sanchez` body.

It was badly decomposed. It took several days for them to identify. That was made positively yesterday, they made that I.D. They arrested the two -- Andres Sanchez` daughter, 16-year-old Clarissa, as you mentioned, and then her boyfriend, the 19-year-old Larry Coronado.

They are again facing first-degree murder as well as conspiracy to commit first-degree murder charges.

GRACE: Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins.

Dr. Marty, just because the body of the father was badly decomposed, to me is not meaning a lot because they discarded him in the desert.

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Yes, you know, temperature is directly proportional to how well the body is preserved or how fast it decomposes. With freezing temperatures, preserving something near perfectly. In warm temperatures like a desert, meaning the decomposition can occur very quickly. So it doesn`t really mean anything in such a hot environment.

GRACE: You know I`m taking a look at these photos. You know daddy`s little angel is more like daddy`s hell`s angels.

What about it, Dr. Bethany?

MARSHALL: Well, she look quite precocious. Prematurely sexual. It reminds me of the three reasons that teens kill their parents. Number one, they have a personality disorder like anti-social.

GRACE: Bethany. Bethany.

MARSHALL: Which -- it`s true, Nancy.

GRACE: I hereby ban you from the two words, personality disorder. You met -- never met a single person that you don`t think has a personality disorder.

MARSHALL: Nancy, this is not me. This is backed up by research. That`s the three reasons are, a personality disorder, childhood sexual abuse, or that they have a psychiatric disorder like bipolar.

So with the psychiatric disorder, they wouldn`t be as organized looking as she is. They wouldn`t be taking beautiful photos of themselves. Sexual abuse maybe because she looks so prematurely sexualized. But most often anti-social personality disorder, where there is no empathy and no attachment to the parents.

GRACE: Well, you know what? I`ve got another theory, Dr. Bethany. And I don`t know if this is in your diagnostic book.

MARSHALL: All right.

GRACE: She`s just plain mean from hell. What about it, Eleanor Odom?

ODOM: I was just thinking that same thing, Nancy. I see -- it`s because I see girls like this all the time, and this is what 16-year-old`s look like, the majority of them. I hate to say it, but a lot of them are dressing a little bit older, and maybe a lot of make-up and all.

GRACE: Maybe most of the 16-year-olds that you see in felony court look like this.

ODOM: Well, I`m not saying a lot of time this is typical for teenagers these days, believe it or not.

GRACE: OK. Good to know.

Out to the lines, Michelle in Rhode Island. Hi, Michelle.

MICHELLE, CALLER FROM RHODE ISLAND: Hi. What could this father have possibly done to this child that they have to turn to murder?

GRACE: You know it`s interesting that you say, what did the father do to make the girl murder him? You know, Michelle, I get where you`re coming from, but having personally prosecuted so many juveniles, they don`t necessarily have to be spurred on to do it.

We`ve had many cases where juveniles kill their parents, for instance. They won`t let them go out with a certain boy. They won`t let them go out past midnight. Just whatever. And they have this reaction.

What about it, Paul Penzone?

PAUL PENZONE, DIRECT OF PREVENTION PROGRAMS, CHILDHELP.ORG, FMR. SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: You`re exactly right, Nancy. You don`t always have to have some underlying theme. They are just bad, evil people. But I`ll tell you what, the Tucson PD is a strong police department and they`re going to pin these two down for this murder. This is terrible.

GRACE: To Marc Klaas, of KlaasKids Foundation. You know he was a missing person. Now we`ve learned the worst.

KLAAS: Well, yes, sure. And something -- for some reason this girl hated her father so, so much that she was willing to kill him and leave him to the wolves and the coyotes. And it`s just a -- it`s just heartbreaking that evil exists in this form and that can be manifested so early in age.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He said that`s what killed Sanchez here in the 2700 Block of Castle Street before dumping his body in the desert. Sanchez`s family waited 10 days after he disappeared before they called police because they thought he left on his own.

Now as police continue to investigate Sanchez`s family is coping with his death while dealing with another family member in jail.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: After questioning family members police learned that Andres` daughter 16-year-old Clarissa Sanchez and her alleged boyfriend, 19-year-old Larry Coronado, may be responsible for the disappearance.

Police began searching the area and soon found the body of an adult male believed to be Andres with obvious signs of trauma.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. I want to go back out to Paul Birmingham, news director, Newstalk 790 KNST.

Paul, right now when do you expect the two back in court? And have there been any sources stating that there was a reason or motivation for this murder? A 16-year-old girl killing her father?

BIRMINGHAM: They will be in court within the next few days for an appearance. As far as the motive goes, as I mentioned, TPD at this point, Tucson Police, they are not indicating a motive.

One thing that I did want to bring up that I think is important to note here, Nancy. And that is that the area where Mr. Sanchez was discovered deceased is very close to the home with Tucson Police tell me the murder actually took place.

Whether that goes to any sort of planning or lack thereof, that remains an open question. But the crime scene where he was discovered --

GRACE: Right.

BIRMINGHAM: And the murder location, very, very close. Within a few --

GRACE: Stephanie in California, what`s your question, dear?

STEPHANIE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. First of all, I love you. You`re a hero, you`re my idol.

My question, Bethany Marshall. She commented, you know, it could be this disorder or that. Why does everybody go to a disorder when crazies are killing people? They`re just bad people.

GRACE: You know what? My question exactly. But the fact that this is so bizarre, you rarely have a teen girl killing her father. But remember, the boyfriend was in it, too. I guarantee you, you`re going to find out that he was the impetus behind this murder.

Bethany, I hope you heard that.

Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Adam Harting, 21, Portage, Indiana, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation medal. Remembered for big blue eyes, baby face, loyalty and strength.

The glue that held his family together. Loved the river, fishing, paintball. Leaves behind parents James and Katherine, three brothers, twin Alexander, three sisters.

Adam Harting, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And tonight our prayers to the family of Florida Sheriff`s Deputy Jeremy Cassady, gunned down rescuing a Pensacola woman. In the fight of his life. Donate at escambiaso.com.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END