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NANCY GRACE

Police Arrest Couple in Baby-Snatching and Murder Case; Ana Diaz de Ceja`s body found burned, baby returned to father.

Aired December 17, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight out of California. A beautiful 26-year-old new mother heads to the doctor with her 2-month-old baby boy when they both mysteriously vanish. Within hours, the mother is found dead, the remains so badly burned, investigators have to use dental records to ID her. Five days later, the missing newborn is found abandoned on the doorstep of a nearby home. And in a stunning twist, a key witness reports a mystery couple tries to sell the baby.

Just in tonight, tips lead to the arrest of two alleged baby snatchers turned killers, accused of strangling, burning and dumping the mom in an orchard. Tonight, inside the chilling murder plot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charges of first-degree murder, Teresa Robles and Jose Velarde. Sheriff`s department says they murdered Ana Diaz.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brutally attacked.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And stole her youngest son, Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The plot to kill Diaz.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Savagely strangled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Robles had had a miscarriage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Driven dead to the Snelling area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And set her eyes on Ana`s baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dumped in an orchard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Robles wanted to raise little Anthony as her own.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And lit on fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement has just arrested a couple in the murder of Ana DeCeja.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can murder a woman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stealing her baby. Cops say they gave a chilling account of what happened to the 26-year-old mother of two.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are sick people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight out of California. A new mother found dead, badly burned in an almond orchard, her newborn abandoned on a doorstep. And in a shocking twist, a key witness and a mystery couple who tries to sell the baby leads to two arrests.

Let`s go straight out to Margaret Carrero, reporter with KMJ 580. Margaret, the latest, please?

MARGARET CARRERO, KMJ 580 (via telephone): Yes, Pat, this married couple, 33-year-old Teresa Ceja Robles and 37-year-old Jose Augustine Velarde -- they were arrested on Wednesday evening, the same night that we were announcing the story on this show. They were arrested and taken into custody.

They wanted this baby after suffering a miscarriage over the summer, so distraught. And in the words of Sheriff Mark Pazin, Robles and Velarde gave a chilling account of what happened thereafter. They plotted to steal a baby boy. And when they crossed paths with Ana Diaz DeCeja and saw her beautiful 2-month-old son, Anthony, they decided that was going be their target. And so they lured her to her house, where they, of course, killed her, took her to that Snelling orchard and dropped off her body, burned it, and then they took 2-month-old Anthony and wanted to keep him for themselves.

LALAMA: Absolutely stunning. Just unbelievable story. Michael Board, reporter, WOAI Newsradio, where are the suspects as we speak?

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI NEWSRADIO: They`re in jail, where they should be after doing -- of being accused of doing something like this.

LALAMA: And now Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer, we understand they have confessed to the crimes. Can you give us some details of that?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Right. That`s right, Pat. Police tell us that they actually told police that they took the baby home, told their other three children -- the female suspect in this case has three kids from a previous relationship. They went home, told the kids that she`d just given birth to this baby. They named him Jose, Jr., after the male suspect. And they planned to raise this baby as if it was their own.

LALAMA: Very interesting. Michael Board, back to you. Explain to us the details that you can give us as to how this couple was able to lure this ill-fated mother to their home.

BOARD: Well, apparently, this couple met Ana Diaz at the clinic where she was supposed to be going that morning. They picked her out. They said, This is going to be our target. The morning of this tragedy, they somehow lured Ana Diaz and her child to their home. That`s where the murder allegedly happened. The mother, Teresa, allegedly lured Ana Diaz into the home. That`s where her husband allegedly murdered Ana Diaz. He apparently strangled her.

And we don`t know if the child was there. We don`t know at this point if that child, this 2-month-old child witnessed his mother`s murder, but it is a distinct possibility in the case because it was the child that they were after.

They then -- this sounds like something out of a bad movie instead of real life. They tossed her dead body -- allegedly tossed her dead body into her own truck and drive it out to that orchard, where they allegedly set it on fire. Just unbelievably callous disregard for human life, if this story is true.

LALAMA: Unbelievable. Sheriff Mark Pazin, Merced County sheriff`s office -- I can`t imagine the psychological impact on your entire community, a dark cloud in the holidays for your community, correct?

SHERIFF MARK PAZIN, MERCED COUNTY (via telephone): It`s a mess over here in California. You know, you don`t expect these things to happen. And just like the previous reporter had mentioned, you just don`t -- you can`t write a script like this, Pat. But it did happen.

Our investigators did not get myopic on the husband. He had -- he was at work. That was corroborated. He was putting up Christmas lights. And kudos go to them that they were able to keep the whole horizon of suspects.

But the real break in the case, as it was alluded to just a few moments ago, is that the intense media scrutiny from print, radio and television caused this couple to give up the baby that they had so heinously stolen from the mother. And we`re just thankful that that baby is alive. And just so that you know, Thursday young Anthony was reunited with his family.

LALAMA: That`s such, such -- you know what? In a way, Sheriff, it`s really bittersweet. They`ve lost Mom, but baby is safe.

Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers, Nutley, New Jersey, Police Department -- what`s interesting to me is the heinous violence perpetrated on the mother, yet they saved the baby, in essence, but really not because they left the baby naked on a doorstep to freeze to death. Assess this situation for us.

DET. LT. STEVEN ROGERS, NUTLEY, NJ, PD: Well, a couple of things. The sheriff and his officers did an outstanding job in...

LALAMA: Yes, they did.

ROGERS: ... bringing the totality of evidence against these people. And the reason why the body was burned, in this case, I believe that they believed, that is the suspects believed, that they were actually going to get rid of every bit of evidence that would eventually be discovered by the police and then brought as evidence against them in a trial. But it didn`t work out that way because, as you know, the dental forensics is what`s going to really, you know, shut this case down.

LALAMA: We`re going to revisit some of the amazing details of this concocted scheme, but first, Dr. Gwenn O`Keeffe, pediatrician, author of "Cyber" -- "CyberSafe," excuse me -- I`m wondering about the condition of this child. I believe his temperature was something like 86 degrees. I`m not certain. We`ll find out in a minute how long he was in the bitter cold. What are the prospects for this baby`s conditions, his health?

DR. GWENN O`KEEFFE, PEDIATRICIAN: Well, he should do fine because it sounds like he was -- even though he was very, very cold, babies do have a protective mechanism where they save their vital organs very quickly. And it sounds like the people who brought him inside warmed him up very quickly, and the hospital did an excellent job in getting him very warm. So assuming all of those things happened, he should do very well.

LALAMA: Bradford Cohen, defense attorney, does it surprise you that the authorities were able to get a quick confession in this case?

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not really. And the reason why is because these are not experienced criminals. They have no prior criminal history. The officers did a -- you know, everyone is saying they did a fantastic job. But generally, when you get someone in a room and to give them -- to get them to give you a confession, if they`re a hardened criminal, they might lawyer up. Even some that have never been in trouble might lawyer up. But usually, the less experience the individual has with the criminal system, they want to get something off their chest, especially the mom, who seemed like she was distraught already from losing a baby, you know, during the summer. I`m sure there was some mechanism in her that was -- that, you know, gave up and she wanted to give this information.

And possibly, once she gave that information, then they can go in to the husband and say, Hey, listen, we already know what happened. Your wife already told us. You might as well come clean. And now the husband comes clean. I don`t know what technique they used, but generally, the less experience you have with the criminal system, the easier it is to get a confession out of someone.

LALAMA: All right. Well, I mean, it was obviously sloppy in the way that they, you know, tried...

COHEN: Oh, yes.

LALAMA: ... to sell the child, allegedly, at some point. But Richard Herman, defense attorney, I`m just wondering, you know, is it possible -- I don`t know. I mean, the charges -- there`s a plethora of charges, I`m sure, anticipated. Is it possible that the mother could say that she was lured into doing this by her husband?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the mother could say she suffered from some sort of psychotic trauma from losing her child over the summer.

But Pat, you know, whenever there`s cases where there`s bombshell confessions, I`m always suspect to the techniques that were used by law enforcement. I don`t know if this confession was freely given. I don`t know if police have any corroboration to support what this alleged confession revealed.

So if there`s just dental records, that`s not going to be enough for a conviction in this case. So I`d like to know from authorities, what corroboration do they have to support the confessions?

LALAMA: We`re going to get back to that, you mark my words. Hold that thought. But first, Paula Bloom, clinical psychologist. You know, this syndrome of women who miscarry and -- I mean, is it legitimate that they can truly be driven to do something so heinous because they lost a child and they so desperately want one?

PAULA BLOOM, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, millions of women lose children every day and don`t do things like this. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely that that explains this? Not so much. It`s really incredible. I mean, I`m really glad that the baby is safe and back with his family. But psychologically -- I mean, people -- just because you do something completely crazy like this doesn`t mean that you are crazy. You see what I`m saying? Sometimes people think, Oh, this is so horrible, she must have been crazy. That doesn`t necessarily -- that`s not necessarily the case.

LALAMA: But is it...

(CROSSTALK)

LALAMA: That`s a good question. Well, my question would be, could she say, Hey, I was out of my mind, I was so psychologically distraught. I`d never -- as you can see, I have no criminal history. Is that going to be salvation for this woman possibly?

BLOOM: You know (INAUDIBLE) the idea of insanity is really a legal issue. But I have to say, this was very well organized and very -- you know, it was pretty amazing, actually. So I don`t know if she`s going to be able to make that case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Mommy found dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ana`s burned body was discovered in an orchard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement have just arrested a couple in the murder of Ana DeCeja.

LALAMA: Her remains so badly burned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a bizarre case that has baffled investigators in Merced County.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Robles wanted to raise little Anthony as her own.

GRACE: A gorgeous 26-year-old new mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s found dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ana`s burned body was discovered in an orchard.

GRACE: Two-month-old baby boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abandoned on a doorstep.

GRACE: Is Mommy`s brutal death linked to baby snatchers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say she conspired with her husband to steal a baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sheriff Mark Pazin says the husband and wife duo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mommy -- quote, Mommy just had a baby boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Devised a plot to kill Diaz.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly strangled to death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was going to name him Jose, Jr., after a person that had just murdered the actual mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer, very interesting. All of us were wondering, because this couple does have -- they share three -- or have three children...

JOSTAD: Right.

LALAMA: ... we`re thinking, well, you know, why the desperation of having another? And you, young lady, have the answer to that.

JOSTAD: Right. Well, exactly. It didn`t make sense. They already have kids ages 13, 11, 8. But Sheriff Pazin told us just before air tonight that Teresa Robles actually had these children with another man, a previous relationship. So the goal here was that the couple wanted a child together. They wanted to have their own baby boy, the two of them.

LALAMA: Wow. That really explains it, doesn`t it? And Sheriff Mark Pazin, you know, this was quite an elaborate scheme, not necessarily the most intelligent scheme. But they knew the victim, correct? And also held her baby at one point in the clinic? Is that true?

PAZIN: Exactly. I know they were already planning on this, for our defense attorney guest here, planning on an insanity. But I got to tell you, to the viewers, there was an absolute plan, scheme and design to every move that they made. The victim in this case was an acquaintance of our suspects. They had seen each other. And in fact, at the clinic some months ago, when the baby was born, Ana allowed Teresa to hold the little infant. And according to our detectives, after debriefing, that`s when she fell in love with the infant and had to have that baby.

Hence the cold, calculating plan to get the victim over to the house, kill her, in a -- just a chilling strangulation at the home and try to dispose of the body. And I`d like to address, if I may -- you know, the dental records, that is not the axis mundi (ph) of this case. The dental records will just identify the victim. We have other corroborating evidence as we go along over here through the program that we`ll be able to go ahead and share with our viewers.

LALAMA: Richard Herman, there you go. I mean, this was a plan, well executed, and an unfortunate ending. Would you like to respond to the sheriff?

HERMAN: Well, it seems that he`s holding back, and if he has that corroborating evidence to support this alleged confession that was given, these people are in deep trouble here. I don`t believe an insanity defense is going to apply in this case. I don`t think it`s a viable one. If it is at all, it only goes to the woman, not to the man. And you know, less than 3 percent of those work anyway, Pat, so -- we saw the Elizabeth Smart case. They tried insanity. It went nowhere. These people are in really bad shape.

LALAMA: Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers, you know, how -- do you see confessions like this? Have you seen cases in the course of your time in law enforcement of desperate people searching for children?

ROGERS: Yes, I have. And with all due respect to the other guest, questioning the methodology of the police in this case I think is outrageous. Look, these officers had a tough job to do. They did it well. They were able to get a confession based on, I`m sure, a totality of information and evidence they brought before these suspects. And keep in mind that I`m sure the officers followed the law. They gave them their Miranda rights. This was good police work. And you know what? They should be commended, not questioned.

LALAMA: Margaret Carrero, witnesses played a very important role in bringing this case to justice, did they not?

CARRERO: Oh, absolutely, they did. Witnesses actually came forward and told detectives that they had been approached by the suspects in the town of Merced in days leading up to Ana`s disappearance and eventual death, who had actually -- they say that the suspects had asked them to help them steal a baby. And it`s those witnesses who were actually able to lead detectives to Teresa Robles by identifying her picture in a photo line-up.

LALAMA: Bradford Cohen, defense attorney, we`re looking at a lot of different charges that could be -- if you want to pile on here, correct? I mean, we`re talking about destroying evidence, allegedly. We`re -- give us a rundown of what`s on the potential list of charges.

COHEN: Kidnapping, child endangerment, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence. I mean, not to mention the first-degree murder charge. But there is -- you know, something else that`s interesting in terms of the confession and corroborating evidence -- you know, you have an 8, a 10 and a 13-year-old that are also potential witnesses that the police could also interview because they said during their -- and just to put on my prosecutor hat, which I don`t like to do, but we will for a minute -- is they said that, you know, they told their children that they brought this baby home and they have a new baby boy. You got a 13-year-old and an 11- year-old, those are going to be pretty decent witnesses, especially if they`re compelled to testify against their own parents, which they may be required to do.

LALAMA: Oh!

COHEN: So there is corroborating evidence just in that, you know, even if the sheriff is holding back other evidence. I mean, there`s really a lot here in terms of hanging their hat on some evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says that he`s very devastated about what`s going on, that he can only feel it in his heart. He`s asking with all his heart if anybody knows anything, to let the authorities know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Mother is found dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Badly burned in an almond orchard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her 8-week-old son gone.

GRACE: Five days later, missing newborn found abandoned on a doorstep.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriffs deputies now say a couple.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly tries to sell a baby. A 33-year-old woman and her 37-year-old husband taken into custody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are sick and depraved people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say they gave a chilling account of what happened to the 26-year-old mother of two.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Paula Bloom, clinical psychologist, let`s follow up where we left off on the impact on the three children of the suspects, including a teenager. Oh, my goodness, the hell those little babies must be going through! Explain for us, please.

BLOOM: Oh, please. Well, it`s just actually amazing. You know, I was thinking about the hell that those kids are going through. I mean, how could you trust people in the world? I mean, this is what`s going on. Your parents lie to you. I mean, that`s huge.

But also, let`s not forget the effect of being removed from your mom when you`re 2 months old. And you know, we attach very young in our lives. And that has a huge impact on what happens in the rest of our relationships. So lots of kids are being affected here, the 5-year-old who lost his mom, the baby, these other three children. I mean, huge! And to be in a position where you have to basically testify against your parents - - I mean, the trauma of that is huge because a 13-year-old`s totally going to understand this. You know what I mean? It`s not a...

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: They`re going to appreciate an 11-year-old, too.

LALAMA: Richard Herman -- Richard Herman, it can get contentious in court. And it`s so difficult when you`re dealing with young children. Everybody`s got to tread so, you know, carefully. What is that like from a defense attorney`s perspective?

HERMAN: It`s walking on the thinnest ice possible, Pat. But you know, the younger children aren`t going to be able to testify in court. The 10-year-old might be able to.

But you know, Pat, just because these people may have had the baby in their possession and may have attempted to sell it -- which again, we don`t know, we have to rely on another witness for that -- that doesn`t mean that these people slaughtered the mother. I mean, it`s a big leap to go from that to the slaughtering of the mother. So you`ve got to get to the murder here.

LALAMA: Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers, it looks like Richard Herman is not buying that it`s a slam dunk these people killed the mother.

ROGERS: Well, as we know, it`s an allegation. However, I go back to the police. They`ve got witnesses. They`ve got some -- I`m sure a lot of forensic evidence, and then the children. You`re talking about the children. Well, you know what they`re going to do? They`ll bring experts in, forensic teams in to interview the children. And you`ll see how the police will connect all the dots for successful prosecution.

LALAMA: You know, how can you question it, Richard? I mean, I know that`s your job to question this, but this is a really strong case they have in Merced County.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Her body set on fire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just assumed it was somebody burning trash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s found dead, her body found burning in an almond orchard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAT LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama for Nancy Grace. Richard Herman, I left you hanging there before the commercial break. Still questioning this case and who may have performed this murder.

RICHARD HERMAN: Well, I just wanted to say, Pat, was that nobody eye-witnessed the murder. There were no video tapes of this murder. Nobody saw exactly what happened so it`s not a slam dunk case.

LALAMA: Well, Sheriff Pazin, you want to respond to that?

SHERIFF PAZIN: Well, obviously, I disagree, with all due respect to the counselor. We do have corroborating evidence. We have items where she was purchasing on a closed circuit camera at a local store the same day that the - of the murder and that the baby was kidnapped. And, I also want to say here if I can stray away just a little bit from that - that I would submit to the - to our viewers that the despicable act from our suspect also careened to the family, to the other siblings, the other children because they had told their children that the little baby Junior was sick and had gone to a hospital here in Fresno, California with the thought that two or three days later they were going to then tell the children that the little infant had died.

So, basically, they were compounding what they have already done and that admission was to our detectives. So, the only word that I can categorize that is despicable and, here, they wanted to try and raise this little infant. It`s just - It`s just bizarre. This whole thing.

LALAMA: Absolutely. You know, Ellie Jostad, Nancy Grace producer, I was reading the account of the neighbor who heard the baby and at first thought it was a cat. It was just absolutely chilling. Can you go through that - his account for us?

ELLIE JOSTAD: Sure. Well, this is in a community nearby where Anna Diaz de Ceja lived. This man is getting up really early in the morning, 6:30 in the morning. Mind you, it is below freezing at that hour. He hears something he thinks is a cat crying. He goes and investigates the source and he finds this little naked baby wrapped only in a thin blanket on his neighbor`s porch. He woke the woman up who lived in the house. The two of them brought the baby inside, got it dressed, got it warmed up, rushed the baby to the hospital.

LALAMA: I want to ask Dr. Gwen O`Keefe, pediatrician - you know, we were just discussing this during the break. You talk about something so heinous, and you can imagine maybe one person going off the deep end and saying, you know, I`m really going to do this, I`m going to kill this mother because I really want this baby and I`m out of my mind and blah, blah, blah but, two adults who are parents, to corroborate, to get together, to collaborate and make this happen seems almost unbelievable to me.

GWEN O`KEEFE: You know, we don`t see this too often in the pediatric world. You see one unbalanced parent but I can say in my career I have never seen two. Usually, you see one and the other one calls for help but this is probably a first in my experience as a pediatrician where it`s just beyond description that two parents would do this to not just one child but an entire family. Two families.

LALAMA: Absolutely. Paula Bloom, you know, on that note, it makes me wonder, if they are responsible, they`re equally guilty, I understand the law. The plan of the matter is, is it possible, she already has three children with another guy. This father desperately wants a son. Could he have had a lot of psychological impact on her to join in with him to do this?

O`KEEFE: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, it`s extremely, extremely rare. There`s a psychiatric condition called a shared psychotic disorder and we call it a folie a` deux, which is French for crazy -- two crazy people, but this just doesn`t feel like that to me. Yes, I mean, it`s possible, like, oh, I want to keep this guy, I don`t know what happened but, hey, I want to keep this guy around. So, he really wants a son, let`s get a son. You know, all of that is possible. It - it`s just an incredible - like the pediatrician said, it`s very unusual, very unusual.

LALAMA: Bradford Cohen, Defense Attorney, I suppose the best thing a defense attorney could try to do is to get the lives saved of these two people. Do you see any hope for that? Again, if they are responsible and convicted?

BRADFORD COHEN: Right, if they are responsible and convicted. Yes, I see some hope for that, absolutely. The thing is is this. Number one is there is no such thing as a slam dunk case. I mean, we`ve seen this time and time again. They thought Michael Jackson was a slam dunk case. There is a lot of cases out there that I hear the words slam dunk on both sides, for the defense and for the prosecution and there is no such thing, that`s number one.

Number two is in regards to this, you know, there are aggravators and mitigators. There are some aggravators in this particular case that might be applicable, the - that they lured her back to allegedly - lured her back to the house. The murder, itself, you know, every murder that takes place is heinous. There is no such thing as a nice murder. So, that in itself wouldn`t raise the level to, you know, that they - that they`re going to seek the death penalty.

But, in terms of, you know, getting her back to the house, that - that might be lying in wait, that might be considering it an aggravator. You know, there`s a couple of things that may come into play. But, like I said, not every case is a slam dunk and not every case is a murder case where - I mean, not every murder case is an offense that you`re going to seek the death penalty on. I think they will on this just simply because of the nature of the crime and the high publicity of the case they might seek the death penalty.

LALAMA: Michael Board, let me ask you, you know, what adds insult to injury here to me is actually trying to sell this baby allegedly. Okay, so you desperately want a child and you decide that there`s too much media attention and you get nervous. You know, it seems to me that the next logical step would be to, you know, just get rid of the child for lack of a nicer term. Instead - instead, they allegedly go up to some witness and say, "Hey, you want to buy a baby?" Correct?

MICHAEL: You can just drop off a child and they don`t ask any questions whatsoever. You can say here`s this child and walk away. That would have, you know, at least been somewhat responsible but, you know, to treat this child like a piece of trash and stuck it on a front doorstep. You know, you talk about mental illness, that really is a sign of mental illness.

LALAMA: Yes. Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers, I mean, if you were ever going to try to conjure up some sympathy, not for the acts that were committed but for a mother desperately wanting this - this little baby. I mean, when you hear that they tried to sell the child, all bets are off for sympathy.

DETECTIVE LIEUTENANT STEVEN ROGERS: Absolutely. There is no possibility of any sympathy here. I mean, this is a mother of other children. Imagine selling a child. No sympathy at all. None. These people have to be brought to justice and dealt with severely.

LALAMA: But, let me ask you, you know, talking about this, I mean, to - to kill for a baby, have you seen that? Have you seen that in your career to want to kill for a baby?

ROGERS: Yes. I mean, during the course of my career there have been individuals who attempt to sell babies for profit. There`s love triangles. There`s all sorts of motives but every single case, I`ve got to tell you, these people are caught. They make mistakes. In this case, trying to sell the baby, as the other guest said, instead of leaving it at a fire station. They make mistakes and they get caught and they go to jail.

LALAMA: Sheriff Pazin, this is a particularly horrific case that you`re dealing with. I`m just wondering in your career in law enforcement, is child snatching, child stealing more prevalent than we think.

PAZIN: I would have to say this is very unique, especially the way that they went and went about it and it just - again, bizarre, despicable, callous. I use all of those words for this and, across our nation there has been a couple where they`ve actually, in my recollection, took the pregnant mother and basically ripped out of the womb a baby.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. The baby, Anthony, has been reunited with his father and his older brother. Can you tell us about that?

MARGARET CARRERO: Yes. CPS actually brought Anthony home last night. You know, as callous, as calculated, and as disturbing as the story is, Pat, I really want to emphasize the fact that we have a beautiful Christmas miracle in that that little baby survived and now this little angel is now going to be able to live and be with his father and his brother and his family and, from what I understand, Dad, obviously, extremely distraught over what happened to his wife. He`s going to have that hole in his heart for the rest of his life but he has his little baby boy. He has his other son home with him and he`s just really relieved to know that the two people that are believed to have conducted and taken part in this crime are now behind bars and are going to face justice.

LALAMA: Oh, wow, just heartbreaking in so many ways but also, as I said, bittersweet. Michael Board, do we know that the baby has a clean bill of health?

BOARD: So far, yes, it`s a clean bill of health and when you talk about charges against this family, you know, this does meet all the statutes, all the levels, all the bars for the death penalty in the state of California. In California, to be able to meet the qualifications for the death penalty it must be a murder while committing another crime, a murder that`s heinous, a murder while kidnapping. I think all three of those meet the definition if prosecutors want to pursue the death penalty.

LALAMA: Ellie Jostad, Nancy Grace producer, for those who may not be familiar with this case, I can`t imagine it but, you know, if they aren`t, can you give us a timeline to help us understand how all this transpired and how it was ultimately resolved?

JOSTAD: Sure. Yes, a lot of shocking twists and turns in this case. It started off on a Thursday morning. The victim`s husband, Luis, left for work early in the morning. She was supposed to go to a clinic with her baby that day to fill out some paperwork. She is not even reported missing until that night when her husband comes home and discovers they`re not there. But, before she is reported missing, these orchard workers find a body burning. They didn`t identify her until days later.

But, Pat, the next day, the victim`s car, Ana de Ceja`s car, is found. There is still the base to the car seat in there but the car seat is not there. That same day, a witness claims a couple comes up to him carrying a car seat and he was able to describe it as the car seat that Ana Diaz de Ceja used. He says a couple tried to sell him a baby. That car seat later found abandoned. No baby. About four days pass until finally little baby Anthony is found abandoned on a doorstep, near death, only 86 degrees was his temperature.

He had to be rushed to the hospital. And then, after that, Pat, almost two weeks went by before he was able to be reunited with his family. Police wanted to make sure that this was, in fact, the victim`s baby before they gave him back to his father. Fortunately, they have been reunited now.

LALAMA: Very good Ellie. Thank you for describing all of that for us and I want to ask Dr. Gwen O`Keefe, is there any possibility of long- term or life-long problems as a result of this incident for this child.

O`KEEFE: Well, there could be, you know, depending on how long he was really cold for and how long it took to really warm him up. There could be some things like learning disabilities and, you know, trouble concentrating, just like you`d expect of, you know, a premature baby and that`s something that we won`t know until this baby develops a little bit. I think it`s a very excellent sign that they were able to warm the baby up so quickly and give him a clean bill of health.

That means that at least developmentally right now the baby is acting like a 2-month-old and that`s incredibly reassuring and, frankly, incredibly lucky.

LALAMA: Well, Sheriff Pazin, for all you`ve been through, you must be incredibly proud of the people of your community for what they did to save this baby`s life in essence.

PAZIN: Yes. I - I mean, I tell you, the media played a very important in getting these people skittish and placing the baby, even though not the right thing to do, at least the baby was in safe hands. Artie [inaudible] from the Major Crime Unit, Mike Reese, Jose Sanchez, Chuck Hale, and Michael Brawley (ph) really worked with the community and made a commitment to bringing justice to our community and we - I also want to acknowledge that our district attorney, we worked very close with that agency to get the [inaudible] warrants on these people and working with our district attorney, Larry Moore.

So, I believe we`ve got a great package to present to the D.A. We`ve been working closely with him and just as you`ve nailed it, Pat, everybody really rallied around the family in this very very difficult time.

LALAMA: You know, you mentioned earlier something about the suspects on surveillance tape. Are you at liberty to expound on that?

PAZIN: Yes. I - it`s going to be part of discovery as the good defense attorney would know that. Basically, the time line is such where she went to a major department store. We have captured it on video. She was buying infant items so that - so that - to a 2-month to 4-month-old infant. We`re confident, again, there`s no slam dunk, that`s only for Michael Jordan but, for the rest of us, you know, we believe and have worked closely with our district attorney here in Merced County and so we`re very pleased on how this all came about.

LALAMA: Paula Bloom, it just strikes me as very interesting that someone goes - two people go from a life of no criminal history to something, not just murder but burning a body and snatching a child. There is a disconnect for me somewhere in there.

PAULA BLOOM: Yes. I mean, it is pretty amazing, something - I mean, listen, there are some psychiatric things that happen, or feel like they happen really quickly and really acutely but, often, you would see some signs before that but this is very very unusual. It - you know, some people have been known to become psychotic and do something like they`re in a delusional state, totally disconnected from reality, but the idea that two people, and there weren`t times where somebody`s conscience came up and said, you know what, we really shouldn`t do that. This is very unusual.

LALAMA: Richard Herman, if he, in fact, the male suspect, burned the body but his wife didn`t, is there any prayer for mercy because of that?

HERMAN: No. No. She goes with him on that. But you made a great point. What`s the defense strategy? I believe if they do not make a deal pre-trial their lives are at risk. If they take a verdict in this case, I do not believe there is going to be mitigators. The jury is going to be furious with the way they treated these people. The burning of the body itself is probably going to be enough to put a jury over the edge, the way they treated the baby afterwards. These people have a good solid 90% chance of really getting the death penalty unless a deal is made pre-trial.

LALAMA: Brad Cohen, you want to weigh in on that.

COHEN: I - I mean, I agree, I mean, the - listen, the fact is is that when the jury hears the facts of this case, that they left the baby, that could be attempted murder in itself. They`re going to go ballistic. It`s not a case that you want to take to the jury if, in fact, they can prove it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LALAMA: Tonight, let`s stop to remember Marine Lance Corporal Shane Swanberg, 24, from Kirkland, Washington, killed in Iraq. He was awarded the Purple Heart, Marine Corp Achievement Medal, and the National Defense Service Medal. He loved soccer, playing golf with his father, racquetball, and the beach. He dreamed of moving to Florida and selling real estate. Remembered for having the brightest smile. He leaves behind parents Linda and Brian, step-mother Lori, his brother Travis, a combat medic, and his sister Nicole Swanberg. A true American hero.

Thank you to all of our guests and you at home for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8 p.m. sharp Eastern. Until then everybody, have a wonderful evening.

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