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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Police Chief Cover-Up?; Ted Williams: `I`ve Relapsed`

Aired January 13, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, shocking charges of a disgusting cover-up at the highest levels of law enforcement. A police chief accused of shutting down an investigation into the alleged sexual assault of a child. Did this officer of the law use his power to keep his friend from being tossed in jail?

Then, an overnight sensation crumbles under the weight of addition. Even as he`s showered with money and job offers, the man with the golden voice, Ted Williams, admits he`s fallen off the wagon and is drinking again. After a fight with his daughter, the former homeless man is now headed to rehab. Will he be a great success story, or will he trash this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity?

And Hollywood superstar Charlie Sheen gets an unexpected letter. Lindsay Lohan`s dad is issuing a warning to the actor. Is Sheen just a hard-partying playboy, or is he on a downward spiral that could end in tragedy? I`ll talk to Michael Lohan live about why he wrote this letter to Charlie.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOYCE DAWLEY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT: We began investigating Chief Saylor in July of this past year, 2010, after receiving information that Chief Saylor terminated an investigation by his department into the sexual battery of a child to keep a friend from going to jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Tonight, sick, twisted allegations against a now former Florida police chief accused of helping his 50-year- old friend dodge child sex charges.

Two girls -- count them, two -- reported this "friend" sexually assaulted them. But the cops would not investigate.

Former Windermere Police Chief Daniel Saylor posted bail -- there he is -- and he walked out of jail today. His lawyer calls his arrest a politically-motivated travesty.

But his friend, 50-year-old Scott Bush, was not so lucky. He is being held tonight without bond. He is in the clink. There he is, Scott Bush. This is the man charged with sexual battery of a minor. And authorities say he should have been brought up on charges a long, long, long time ago.

"The Orlando Sentinel" reports two girls told cops that Bush repeatedly sexually assaulted them years ago, but nobody did anything about it. This man -- there he is -- swore to protect and serve. Former Chief Saylor is now charged with covering up those charges, destroying evidence, and trying to get officers to lie.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAWLEY: Chief Saylor offered incentives to members of his department to influence them to provide untruthful testimony and to destroy material evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the former police chief`s attorney pushed for his client to get bail, saying he needs to be home with his 10-year-old daughter.

Hold on. Wait a minute. You`re telling me this guy has a young daughter, and he allegedly helped his so-called friend dodge these sex charges involving young girls? It`s an upside down world, people.

I`m taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to Steve Rogers, who is a police officer himself in Nutley, New Jersey, somewhere else entirely.

But Detective Rodgers, what is your reaction as a cop to these charges, jaw-dropping charges, against this police chief? Former.

STEVE ROGERS, DETECTIVE, NUTLEY, N.J., POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, look, first of all he needs to be in jail, not home.

Secondly, knowing the police culture and the political culture with police departments, I wonder if this investigation is even going to go higher.

How does a city council hire a guy with his background? And therein lies the question that must be answered. He has a very, very tattered background.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes, he does. Because I`ve got to tell you, when you look at the former police chief`s record, with another police department, you, as well as Detective Rogers, will wonder, how did this guy get the job as police chief in Windermere of all places, a very fancy, ritzy community in the Orlando area.

Now, here is the response of the Windermere town manager. What do you have to say, town manager?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CECILIA BERNIER, TOWN MANAGER: It was determined that he was good material for our chief, and we appointed him as chief. We were aware of some investigations, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good material. Hmm. It was some investigation that they did, all right.

"The Orlando Sentinel" reports while Daniel Saylor worked on the Melbourne, Florida, police force he was suspended twice, once for allegedly lying to supervisors. He had an unsatisfactory review and was accused of soliciting a prostitute, although he was never arrested.

Seriously, I`ve got to ask, Levi Page, host of "The Levi Page Show" on Blog Talk Radio, how did this guy ever get a job as the police chief?

LEVI PAGE, CRIME BLOGGER: I mean, it`s absolutely ridiculous. I mean, you just heard that woman right there. She couldn`t even give an answer without mumbling, because she knows that she is incompetent, Jane.

And Jane, he was picked up for that -- picking up a prostitute, and his excuse was, "Oh, she was a hitchhiker." And then he admitted -- he admitted that he picked her up for sex. So even he admitted that he picked up a prostitute with the intentions of having sex with her.

And guess what? He still had a job. And guess what? He has a long history dating back to 1996, the lying during internal investigation. The higher-ups even said that they were going to fire him, fire him, but they were going to give him one last chance.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me say this, because we are friendly with his attorney, Mark NeJame, a very good attorney, by the way, who says, "The charges against Chief Saylor appear to be politically motivated, as they are baseless and untrue. We are in the process of gathering our evidence which not only refutes the allegations but will also serve to exonerate the chief. The circumstances surrounding his arrest and his dubious detention without bond clearly evidences that there is an attempt to deny him the same rights that everyone else is expected to have. It smacks of political motivation."

So he`s claiming that there`s some kind of political campaign against this guy. Do you buy it, Casey Jordan, criminologist?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: No. It smacks of justice. Finally, justice is catching up with former Chief Saylor.

And you have to understand that when we do studies in criminology about police corruption, there`s two general categories that cops very often fall into. They call them the grass eaters and the meat eaters. The grass eaters will take a free cup of coffee, let a friend out of a speeding ticket.

This is a meat eater on steroids. This is a guy whose friend is accused of raping children, and he`s going to try to get him out of it. What does that say about his character?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And why? That`s the big question I want my entire panel to think about. Hypothetically, what would motivate? These guys are accused; they haven`t been convicted. But hypothetically, what would motivate a man in a powerful position to risk his career to help out a friend?

Lynanne, Arkansas, your question or your thought, ma`am.

CALLER: Hi, Jane. Love your show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: My thought is this is so over the top. Every day we hear about a child -- we trust this man to protect our children. In my eyes, he is just as guilty as the man that molested that child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if, in fact, he obstructed these investigations -- remember, it`s not one, it`s two that were allegedly obstructed. Two girls allegedly complained.

Central Florida News 13 reports the Florida Department of Children removed two children from the home of the former chief`s friend in 2003 and 2009. Now the friend, Scott Bush, who is now in jail without bond, charged with lewd and lascivious acts against and sexual battery of a minor under 12.

The Orlando Sentinel" reports a girl accused Bush of sexually molesting her for three straight years, but allegedly, the cops would not investigate. And then in 2009, another girl claimed she had been molested, allegedly by Bush. "The Sentinel" reports former Chief Saylor is accused of putting the kibosh on that investigation, as well.

Jayne Weintraub, a couple of questions. Could the girls who were removed from Bush`s home be the same ones who reported the sexual battery? And two, what would motivate a chief to allegedly risk his entire career to help a buddy?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the second one is easy. Usually, police are corrupt for money matters, money reasons, and the usual situation that we see is a cop turning his eye and being paid off by a drug dealer.

It is almost unheard of to see the situation here, where a police officer, a police chief, would actually, at the core of the integrity of our system, would obstruct a sexual battery, a rape charge, from being brought. I`ve never heard of anything like this. And I think it just really strikes at the very integrity of the system that we all work in every day. And it has an explosive message.

And thankfully, the Orange County sheriff stepped up to the plate, didn`t cover anything up, and Sheriff Devon said, "You know what? Anything you guys need over there in that department, our resources, we`re at your pleasure." And I think that`s also very important. Not all police officers are corrupt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s get back to the first question. Steve Rogers, two children were removed from the home of this guy, the buddy, the friend of the chief, in 2003 and 2009.

WEINTRAUB (?): They`re the victims.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Could those girls who were removed be the ones who reported the sexual battery? I mean, the dates seem to add up.

ROGERS: Sure. They certainly -- they could be. And it goes back to the question: how does a city council, knowing this, having this information, hire this guy?

And let me just say this, Jane. This police chief has damaged a good police department. There are good cops down there, and they are suffering, as we all are, because of the acts of this one individual.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is unbelievable because you know what? There is a special, special obligation that comes with being a police officer. Why? Because you have a lot of power that comes with that badge and that gun. You have the power to pull somebody over in the middle of the night and make them get out of their car. You have a power to handcuff them. You have the power to say, "Lie down and spread `em," OK? And with that power comes responsibility.

This is a betrayal, as Detective Rogers says, of all good cops, and it`s a betrayal of the taxpayers, and it`s certainly a betrayal of children. This is part of the war on women and children, and we are staying on top of this story.

Hang in, expert panel.

What do you at home think about this? Sound off. Call me: 1-877-JVM- SAYS.

Plus, Lindsay Lohan`s dad, Michael has some choice words for Charlie Sheen. He`s going to read a letter, an open letter, tonight on our air in just a little bit. Stay tuned for Michael.

Plus, more on these disturbing allegations of a police chief`s alleged corruption.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s even more troubling to the law-enforcement professionals here today is that reports of those incidents were derailed by the chief of police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK NEJAME, ATTORNEY FOR DANIEL SAYLOR: They`re only allegations. We`ll get into that. You`ve seen enough cases over, you know, your careers and mine that a lot of people, it starts out here and it completely dissipates. We fully anticipate that will happen. But the facts will come out over time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That gentleman is invited on our air any time. He is the attorney for former Windermere, Florida, Police Chief Daniel Saylor, who is charged with two felonies for trying to help a friend allegedly dodge child sex charges. Yes, we want to be fair. We want to hear both sides.

So this man, who is out on bail, or his attorney can come on our show anytime and tell their side of the story. They are invited.

The former chief`s 50-year-old friend is accused of sexually assaulting these two girls, and the scandal here is that the police department would never investigate. And the big question tonight is why. We`re taking your theories.

Sharon, Tennessee, your question or thought, ma`am.

CALLER: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

CALLER: This is beyond despicable. I hope that the families sue the city for hiring him. But my question is, who turned him in? Maybe they should be made police chief.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s very interesting. Levi Page, what do we know about how this evolved? We certainly don`t have all the answers, but are there any clues as to how this finally broke?

PAGE: Well, actually, Jane, the caller, that`s a good question, because FDLE has said that there was another police officer who helped expose this guy to them.

And we know that there`s been police officers that say that they are - - they were afraid if they reported him that they would lose their job.

This reminds me of Sergeant Drew Peterson from Illinois, who was very smug, arrogant, domineering. Many people were afraid of him. So if this guy had the same sort of personality disorder that Drew Peterson has, you can sort of understand the mindset of people not coming forward.

But we do know FDLE has said that there were officers that did report him. We know that one detective who worked on some of these child sex cases kept notes of the cases just in case FDLE would review them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And Levi, we cannot compare this -- this man to Drew Peterson. Drew Peterson is an alleged killer. This man is not.

PAGE: Well, he was accused of doing unethical things on the job like this guy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just want to be -- I want to be fair. OK. But as you mentioned, Orlando police records show that three weeks before the chief resigned in Melbourne in May of 1996 an officer stopped him on suspicion of picking up a prostitute. He was not arrested in that in incident. It seems like a lot of not being arrested. That`s the theme of this story here. Saylor...

WEINTRAUB: Also he was allowed to resign.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. That`s another theme. And we`re going to continue this theme with this next element of the story. And this was a fascinating element.

Saylor made headlines back in 2009 when he and his police force responded to -- want to take a guess, anyone? -- Windermere, does that ring a bell? The infamous crash at Tiger Woods` house. Here is the then-Police Chief Saylor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL SAYLOR, FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE, WINDERMERE: My two officers at the scene basically explained to me they had no indications that there was anything -- any alcohol or anything involved like that. That part of the investigation, usually they`ll test in the blood when they go to the hospital. That`s nowhere for me to say here or there. That`s a piece (ph) of investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very interesting. Then-Chief Saylor and his police force were actually criticized at the time for not asking Tiger Woods to take a breathalyzer test.

Keeping these new allegations in mind and that the fact that the state`s attorney calls Chief Saylor`s actions a pattern of obstruction, how do we know, Steve Rogers -- you`re a detective -- if this isn`t the tip of the iceberg?

ROGERS: Well, it may be so.

And Jane, let me say this. What I see here is that there`s a need for police officers to come forward. Remember what Ronald Reagan said in Berlin, "Tear down this wall"? I say tear down the blue wall of silence. There are cops in these cities that know what`s going on with this chief. Come forward, do your job, live up to your oath of office.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I`ve got to ask: what would motivate -- once again, I think this is what so perplexing. What would motivate somebody to do something like this? I mean, what would...

WEINTRAUB (?): Arrogance.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... motivate somebody to risk their career. And he`s a father. He`s got a 10-year-old child, daughter, apparently. What would motivate him? And we`ve heard hypothetically, well, money, bribes. We certainly don`t know anything about that.

But the other thing I was wondering -- and I`ll throw it to Casey Jordan, because you`re the criminologist -- is it possible that the other guy would have something on this guy? Would know something about him that...

JORDAN: Yes, that`s exactly -- that`s exactly what I am thinking, Jane. And the interesting thing is -- I mean, again, this is really serious charges, rape of a child. And this is not the sort of thing that any police officer should even hesitate to just do his job properly, create that Chinese curtain between him and his friendship.

The idea that he has some sort of connection with his friend, Mr. Bush, accused of these horrific crimes, worries me, because perhaps he can relate to that on some level. We know that he was stopped with the suspicion of the prostitute, let go. There`s been a lot of cops letting other cops go on these things.

But maybe he has some sort of deep personality disorder, some sort of sexual aberration in his past that Mr. Bush knows about that they somehow connect. And that`s why he covered it up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know. We don`t know, but as you say we do know that this police chief, now ex-police chief, was accused of picking up a prostitute, and that was long before he became the police chief at Windermere.

And what we know about human behavior, Jayne Weintraub, is that people generally don`t do something once. So maybe this friend might have had something on him.

Again, this is total speculation and hypothesis. Everybody involved in this -- anybody`s involved on this show to tell their side of the story. But we are trying to figure out why somebody would do something so self- destructive.

WEINTRAUB: I think -- I think that the arrogance of this man, repeated arrogance, by his lies, by his -- first he was picking up a hitchhiker. Then he didn`t have sex. When he was going to be charged with a soliciting of a prostitute. He lies at the drop of a hat.

This is not a man of character that should have passed even the first application to become the chief of police. So this is a guy, I think, that is just so used to getting his way and so arrogant that he thinks he can just continue to get away with it.

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: ... dodged a bullet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s not smiling tonight.

Thank you, fantastic panel.

Police may have found the Arizona shooting suspect`s mysterious black bag. I will tell you what they found inside.

And the former homeless man with the golden voice in trouble.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED WILLIAMS, FORMER HOMELESS MAN: Hi, Mommy. Hi, Mommy. Hi, Mommy. Hi, Mommy. Hi, Mommy. Hi, Mommy. I know. I feel the same way, Mommy. I love you, Mommy. I wanted to see you for the past hour or two here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will the homeless man who skyrocketed to fame and good fortune overnight crash and burn just as fast? On day three of Ted Williams` meteoric rise, we witnessed an exuberant, really emotional reunion with his mother. He hadn`t seen her in 10 years.

But then, just days later, during a glamorous Hollywood junket which included a stop at the "Dr. Phil" show, the fairy tale seemed to shatter. Unfortunately.

Check out this clip of Ted and his daughter describing their heated confrontation with each other.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Fists got to flying, and I don`t know what (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You punched me in my jaw.

WILLIAMS: Got scratched on my face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Picked up some ice (ph) and threw it in his face. Every single night he gets drunk. And he`s telling the world and telling everybody, making them believe that he`s been sober for two and a half years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The truth is, and Ted copped to it on "Dr. Phil." He said he hit the bottle as recently as a year ago. As you heard, his family says he`s been drinking nightly.

The good news for Ted, whose instant celebrity exposed a dark past and a rap sheet dating back 20 years, he`s reportedly headed to rehab as we speak.

Straight out to Dr. Reef Karim, addiction specialist and director of the Control Center in Beverly Hills. Dr. Reef, this is a tricky one. Your prognosis?

DR. REEF KARIM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Yes. I mean, everyone`s talking about the homeless because of this story. And, you know, can the homeless be rehabilitated? Can they be functional members of society? Are they dangerous?

Let`s look at a profile of the homeless population. Most of them have mental health problems. Most of them have addiction-based problems. Most of them have life circumstance problems: money, problems with the family, problems with coping skills.

And that`s a big one, because coping skills mean all of us go through life, and we all have difficulties with life. And our coping skills are what allows us to deal with all the crazy stuff that happens to us. If we don`t have coping skills, we`re in trouble, because we can`t deal with stuff that happens to us.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think, after rehab, he will stay sober?

KARIM: I think, with good, professional support, anybody who has a certain level of mental health ability can stay sober. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So I guess you`re saying that, it`s alcoholism plus. You think he may need some psychological counseling? That there`s something else going on beyond just plain alcoholism?

KARIM: That`s the point. When you`re homeless, it`s not just about alcoholism. There is a mental health component that causes you to be homeless. But if you get the right social support and the right professional help, you can overcome -- you know, you`re going to be in recovery the rest of your life, but you can overcome those symptoms.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Traci, Alabama, your question or thought, ma`am.

Traci, Traci.

CALLER: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s your turn. What do you have to say?

CALLER: I say give the guy a chance. He`s lived a low life for a long, long time. I mean, he`s got to come out of this. He`s not going to do it overnight. I say give him a chance. Help him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. I agree. Dr. Reef, everybody wanted him to just turn miraculously into a new person overnight. It`s a process, not an event. That`s a program saying.

KARIM: Yes, Jane. That is such a huge point. Just because the guy`s got a golden voice doesn`t mean all of a sudden, snap, his mental health and addiction problems are gone. This is somebody who was homeless. This is somebody who has a lot of, you know, legal issues and social issues. You`ve got to overcome that. That`s a lifelong journey.

But I`m really happy he`s getting professional help.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Rehab, that`s the key. We`re rooting for you, Ted!

Up next, you won`t believe this one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hollywood superstar Charlie Sheen gets an unexpected letter. Lindsay Lohan`s dad is issuing a warning to the actor. Is Sheen just a hard-partying playboy or is he on a downward spiral that could end in tragedy. I`ll talk to Michael Lohan live about why he wrote this letter to Charlie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY REED, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: He shot me in this arm and then he shot me in the back as he passed. After he passed, the lady behind me, standing in line, grabbed the next magazine. You could hear him releasing the magazine in order to come back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a clearer, even more disturbing, portrait emerges of that alleged mass killer`s movements the day of that terrible bloodbath in Tucson.

Today, a boy walking his dog found a black bag chock-full of ammo, believed to be the bag that accused shooter Jared Loughner allegedly ditched on his way to his fateful destination. If so, wouldn`t an ammo- filled bag hint that he planned to gun down even more people than he did. Police say he opened fire on a crowd Saturday. He killed six people and injured 19 others.

Hours before the shooting, Jared`s dad spotted his son getting a bag out of a car trunk and then confronted him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT KASTIGAR, PIMA COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: The father asked him questions to the -- similar to, what are you doing? What is that? And Jared mumbled something back to his dad. His dad said he didn`t understand what was said. It was unintelligible. And then Jared left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police now testing that bag for DNA, fingerprints, hair, anything that might link it to Jared.

We`re also hearing from a young woman who says she dated Jared in high school. She told CBS about the moment she found out her ex-boyfriend was the alleged Arizona shooting suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELSEY HAWKES, JARED LOUGHNER`S EX-GIRLFRIEND: I couldn`t believe it, and it was very emotional. I was very upset that -- I mean the person that I used to know could become so changed and turn into something else. Somebody I knew six years ago and haven`t spoken to in five years. I can only imagine, like, what`s been going on with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti, live in Tucson; Susan, what is the very latest?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I was talking with police this morning when they revealed to me that, in fact, they had found a black bag which they since are now saying they haven`t confirmed it 100 percent, but they firmly believe it is the bag that Jared Loughner left his house with that his father described just a couple of hours before that terrible shooting rampage on Saturday.

They found it after a teenager was walking along a dry riverbed. He in turn picked up the bag and turned it over to someone else. That someone else called the authorities and they came and picked it up. So they also - - I am told by police that inside sources tell me they found several boxes of ammunition as well as receipts for that ammunition.

Now, separately, as you will probably know that --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In other words --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. To put that into context and explain why it`s so significant, what it really means, Casey Jordan, is that he may well have been planning an even more monstrous rampage than the one he actually allegedly committed.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Oh, absolutely, without a doubt. And seriously, Jane, it could have been worse. I know that seems unfathomable considering all those people who were wounded and died. But he had a clip that was illegal that should have only been available to police officers that could fire up to 30 bullets without being reloaded. With those extra boxes of ammo -- and keep in mind there was really nowhere for people to go.

If he had a better vantage point, if he had not been tackled early in the game, if someone had not knocked that clip that he was reloading out of his hand, he could have done so much more damage given the crowd of people that was there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s my big issue -- the loner syndrome, the loner syndrome. My gosh. How many times do we have to hear an alleged mass murder and a crazed gunman is a loner?

Loughner was an only child, but so am I, who kept to himself. He was intrigued with guns and the idea of fostering chaos. In this case, the loner plus drugs and alcohol plus a fascination with guns and a fascination with politics and nihilism, it made for a lethal horrific combination.

A woman who says she`s Loughner`s ex told CBS he completely changed after they broke up. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAWKES: The Jared that I used to know is completely changed from what the world sees him now as. You know, I would never have ever expected him to become what he has. I seemed to get the impression he was becoming a little more isolated, some involvement in drugs and alcohol I had heard hints of. But like I said never anything good to hear about how he was doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Alan Lipman, even his photographs show him becoming progressively more demented. Do you think this was a chemical imbalance that caused whatever your prognosis is? Or is this a lonely kid who basically retreated into his mind and into drugs and alcohol because he was so lonely?

ALAN LIPMAN, FOUNDER, CENTER FOR STUDY OF VIOLENCE: Well, the evidence -- and of course I haven`t seen him -- there`s a tremendous amount of evidence that is available right now that really does suggest that this was certainly not based on political ideology. The key to understanding Jared Loughner is the delusional, disruptive, destructive behavior of someone who is breaking into psychotic illness.

And that clip you played, Jane, was great because what happens is that the vast majority of these psychotic breaks they occur in the late teens to early 20s, right on the nose when she and also Caitlin another friend saw this change in Loughner. So he went from being an odd but relatively normal kid to having a psychotic break, becoming increasingly paranoid, having delusions of persecution, thinking the government was out to get him, believing in mind control, having insane outbursts in class so that the police were called five times. This is the pattern of a paranoid schizophrenic and he burst --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. Ok. So paranoid schizophrenic, is that a chemical thing, or could that be environmental, the fact that he was lonely? Loughner`s friends say he was obsessed with dreams and their meaning. He was consumed by the idea of --

LIPMAN: He called them conscience (ph) dreams, in fact. That`s a great point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. Lucid dreaming, which means being conscious while you`re dreaming. And the other thing that I thought was really fascinating is that this friend said Jared felt nothing existed but his subconscious. "The dream world was what was real. The day-to-day world was fake and hollow."

LIPMAN: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I guess what I`m saying, Dr. Alan Lipman, is that I personally don`t know whether this was a chemical imbalance or this was something that could have been prevented if someone had intervened and taken a really lonely kid with a bunch of reclusive parent with no friends, the guy who goes to a party and reads a dictionary in a room by himself -- that`s what they said about him and intervened and helped him connect with another human being. Or was he cuckoo because the chemicals in his head were screwed up?

LIPMAN: Let me answer that for you. You`re asking two questions: one is, was it a chemical imbalance or not? Number two, could people have intervened?

Number one: the evidence is very clear, it wasn`t a chemical imbalance. Schizophrenia is a brain disorder. It has something to do with chemicals, dopamine. It also has to do with the way the ventricles enlarge. But the key to it is that because he showed formal thought disorder, delusions, the kind of disruptive behavior and the age of onset that we see in psychotic breaks, this is clearly not just a loner but someone who showed the classic signs that I`ve seen from kids at Yale 25 years ago to now. Anyone would know who works with schizophrenics that this is a sign of a psychotic disorder.

Now, people who are schizophrenic, they are loners. So it`s not that he was a loner for some other reason. When you become schizophrenic, you become isolated.

Now, the fact of the matter is, we have medications which treat this disorder. In Arizona there a state law which says any citizen can call for a psychiatric evaluation.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hear you. I hear you. Thank you.

LIPMAN: He could have been --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand. We could have treated him. But we don`t. We don`t have ways of successfully intervening if the parents don`t do anything, for example.

Elaine -- Elaine, Virginia, your question or thought.

ELAINE, VIRGINIA (via telephone): Yes, Jane. I am -- or was a parent of a son that was a paranoid schizophrenic. He had schizoaffective disorder. He had schizophrenia and bipolar. He was not a loner until he went to college and the stress -- we believe that the stress puts a predisposition to a mental disorder, brings forth that disorder. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain.

LIPMAN: And a structural problem as well.

ELAINE: And a structural. You`re correct, sir.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s also environmental.

LIPMAN: It`s not environmental.

ELAINE: It is not environmental.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second.

LIPMAN: It`s a brain disorder with a high genetic --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second. The lady said her son was doing ok until the stress of college pushed him over the edge.

LIPMAN: That`s right. Jane, it`s called a diathesis-stress model which I`m sure this woman is familiar with.

DR. REEF KARIM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Jane?

LIPMAN: May I speak with --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Reef -- hold on. Dr. Reef Karim.

KARIM: Yes. It is absolutely, positively a combination of structural and chemical --

LIPMAN: It`s a diathesis --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let him speak. Let Dr. Reef speak.

(CROSSTALK)

LIPMAN: It is a diathesis-stress model which means that the underlying genetic.

KARIM: Can I -- I`m sorry but most of the audience does not know what diathesis means. Can I speak so --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Dr. Lipman, let Dr. Reef finish. You spoke --

(CROSSTALK)

LIPMAN: It is an underlying genetic propensity that`s triggered --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Dr. Reef?

KARIM: All right. Yes. It`s a combination of the structural and chemical dysfunction associated with a psychotic disorder that presents at this age, between about 18 and 24, combined with the fact that he`s probably using drugs and alcohol, which increases impulsivity to do these kind -- I mean, you would never want somebody to do these kinds of things, but it`s much more likely when drugs and alcohol are on board.

And then any kind of major environmental stress, especially if this guy is a loner who has no social supports in life, will put it over the top.

(CROSS TALK)

LIPMAN: That`s right. And we know that schizophrenics are --

KARIM: And -- and the other thing Jane --

LIPMAN: Isn`t that right?

KARIM: -- is that religious -- religious preoccupations, delusions over the government, delusions over legal and political things and delusions about your family are the four most common delusions you`re going to see in somebody who has a psychotic disorder.

(CROSSTALK)

LIPMAN: May I respond to this?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The bottom line is, we -- we can`t do a lecture here, but what we can is thank you --

LIPMAN: May I respond for this?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- fantastic panel. And set -- somebody could have helped this guy.

Thank you panel.

Michael Lohan, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Lohan joins me with a crucial message for Charlie Sheen. That in a moment.

But first "Top of the Block" tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTHUR AIDALA, LAWRENCE TAYLOR`S ATTORNEY: He decided it was in the best interest of he and his family and the young woman involved here to dispose of the case the way we did today. To put this behind him and move forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lawrence Taylor, LT, strikes a deal. The football great was busted in May for having sex with a 16-year-old girl. Just a little while ago he pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor charges of patronizing a prostitute and sexual misconduct.

Originally LT was charged with a felony, and was facing four years behind bars. Under this plea deal, you want to take a guess? No jail time. He just needs to register as a sex offender.

Must have been some major football fans involved in this deal. If Taylor`s name was Joe Schmo, I don`t think he would have gotten off quite as easy.

That is tonight`s "Top of the Block."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: If you have expensive taste, you`ve got to be prepared for expensive losses. So it is what it is. I mean, a guy has one bad night and everybody goes insane and panics and -- you know. I`m not panicking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: After tearing up the Plaza Hotel and allegedly locking a terrified porn star in a bathroom, Charlie Sheen told "Extra" he`s not panicking. But others are.

Tonight a celebtervention (ph) -- we just invented that name -- for Charlie Sheen. You won`t believe who is coming forward begging this actor to get help.

After a wild night, Sheen went AWOL in "Sin City" this past weekend. When handlers for CBS`s "Two and a Half Men" finally caught up with Charlie, he was allegedly just finishing up an all-night bender.

Reports claim Charlie spent the night surrounded by pretty porn stars in a probably trashed hotel room in Las Vegas. Sheen`s reps claim he went missing because -- oh, a taint on my ear -- he had an ear infection. Sound familiar? Check this out from ABC`s "Jimmy Kimmel Live".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, TALK SHOW HOST: He was naked and he had done $7,000 worth of damage in his hotel room. TMZ published this shocking photo of the room. My God, it`s almost as if he took all the pillows and piled them up. And those -- the little mint they usually leave on the nightstand was turned completely upside down.

His kids and ex-wife Denise Richards were in another suite in the same hotel. Honey, could you please scream at the hooker in your inside voice, the kids are trying to sleep.

Charlie`s publicist yesterday said Charlie went to the hospital because of an allergic reaction to some medication he was taking. And while that sounded a little bit fishy at first, this is the medication. You can clearly see "Warning: May cause nude hotel room trashing."

So --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, oh a bad reaction to medication? An earache? Really? How do they come up with this stuff? Well, ABC`s Jimmy Kimmel may have figured that out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMMEL: I mean, after the 19th time this happens, what do you say? What kind of a statement do you put out? Fortunately we`re able to find some video of how exactly it works.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. No. This incident was not Charlie`s fault. It was caused by -- hold on -- an adverse reaction to medication. Thanks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s face it we`re having a little fun here. Sheen can pretty much do anything he wants and some people are going to say, hey, it`s just Charlie being Charlie. Heidi Fleiss is one of those people.

But tonight one person is saying enough is enough. Lindsay Lohan`s dad Michael has sent an open letter to the actor warning him, your luck will not last forever. Be like Lindsay. Get help.

Well, Michael joins us tonight here on ISSUES and gives us an update on Lindsay`s dramatic first days out of rehab. Charlie, by the way, has four young children and a wildly lucrative job. How many second chances are we going to give this guy? How long can we keep pretending that Charlie Sheen is just a fun party boy and not a full-blown addict?

Michael Lohan, we`re so glad to have you here on ISSUES tonight. You wrote an open letter to Charlie Sheen. I believe you have the letter in your hand. Read us some of the key points.

MICHAEL LOHAN, LINDSAY LOHAN`S FATHER: Charlie, I`ve been wanting to speak to you for some time. I know that you and Emilio both know Lindsay. And while I can`t say the same about knowing you, I can say that I do know your path, the pain and what your dad and the rest of your family have been going through.

Both as an addict and a father, I`ve seen it, I have felt it, I have caused the pain myself. I have struggles just like the rest of us. People I admire such as Jane Velez and her upcoming book "Addict Nation" and Dr. Drew, their shows so often show in their interviews that we live with the disease.

The problem between addiction and other diseases is that addiction is selfish. It`s a lie and addiction takes other lives in so many ways. And while there is no cure for addiction, where there are for so many other diseases, we can overcome it and control it like Lindsay has. But that`s up to you.

(CROSS TALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me -- let me ask you --

LOHAN: Just look at the data -- go ahead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- let me ask you this question.

LOHAN: Sure.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I don`t know how it ended up in that letter, but I am a recovering alcoholic, 15 years, 16 if I make it to April. All I have is today. You`re in recovery, all you have is today.

LOHAN: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What -- what was your point because some people actually had said, hey, Michael worry about your daughter she`s just been out of rehab about ten days. You know, she`s in early sobriety, focus on her. Why are you deciding to focus on Charlie?

LOHAN: Well, you know, he has been outspoken with regard to Lindsay and wanting to help her at times and giving her advice. I just feel the same that -- I feel bad that he doesn`t look in the mirror and look at himself and how he`s damaging his life.

And like I said, I have struggles myself on a daily basis. There`s things in my life that I have problems with but I recognize then I try to address them. there`s people out there that want to help Charlie. It`s not going to last forever.

I mean there comes a point where, you know what? It`s just not -- there`s no chances left. And he`s got a family, he`s got Denise, wonderful children, beautiful children. A great family like I have with Dina and my children. But we foresake them and sooner or later --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sooner or later the luck runs out.

LOHAN: That`s right. That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side of the break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I hear she`s doing the best she can. It`s not easy to begin with, but then you put it under the bright lights of this circus and it makes it that much more difficult. People just need to leave her alone, let her do her thing and at the end of the day she`ll win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s Charlie. Weigh-in on Lindsay Lohan and now Lindsay`s dad weighing in on Charlie.

Meantime famed Hollywood madam Heidi Fleiss is sticking up for her former client Charlie. She says, "Leave Charlie the F alone. There`s no comparison with Lindsay Lohan because she is not functional and is an addict." Heidi also says, quote, "The guy just loves to party and people don`t seem to want to accept that."

Got to go back to Michael Lohan, how is your daughter doing, approximately ten days out after getting out of rehab for I think -- it`s what, the fifth time?

LOHAN: Yes. She`s doing amazing. She really is. She`s staying with the program, going to the gym, going to her meetings, not jumping back into work.

I`m just laughing, because I can`t believe that Heidi Fleiss said that. I`m not bashing Heidi. How can you say that Lindsay`s an addict and Charlie just likes to party? I mean -- what, because Charlie`s functioning and working?

Listen, Heidi came out of rehab seven times herself, for her to make a statement like that, it seems like she needs to be back on the program and understand what addiction is about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dylan Howard, Heidi Fleiss isn`t exactly an objective observer; she used to supply, purportedly, prostitutes to Charlie Sheen?

DYLAN HOWARD, SR. EXECUTIVE EDITOR, RADARONLINE: Indeed she did. And it was admitted in court that she was indeed a supplier of high class escorts to Charlie Sheen. Sheen, of course, testified in her trial. That said, she was certainly very critical of Lindsay Lohan in her assessment comparing her to Charlie Sheen.

But I guess the question many are asking Hollywood is what does the future hold for Charlie Sheen? According to one report on "The Rap", it`s said that the show`s producers are in fact seriously questioning whether or not Charlie can continue to function and work even though he`s one of the highest paid actors on television.

The question though many are asking, can you help someone who doesn`t want to be helped?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.

HOWARD: And it`s quite clear that Charlie Sheen isn`t wanting to seek recovery for these issues.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s my big issue. Francine Ward, you`re an attorney and addiction specialist, is he on a path of destruction? This isn`t just partying? He`s accused of terrorizing the porn star at the Plaza Hotel. His estranged wife, soon-to-be ex, says that he assaulted her. He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault. He once shot one of his paramours in the arm -- the list goes on.

FRANCINE WARD, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Absolutely. And you know what, as long as he keeps being celebrated for bad behavior, he`s going to keep doing it. Charlie Sheen does not have a vested interest in stopping his behavior because people love him. He gets paid a lot of money. Women fall for him. I mean why should he stop? That`s his thinking.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there is, as a recovering alcoholic, I`ll say there is that thrill that one gets of sort of defying the odds and being terminally unique and getting away with it. Is there not, Francine?

WARD: Well absolutely. And I think, you know, without question Charlie Sheen has a problem with alcohol and drugs. But he`s the only one that doesn`t want to recognize it.

And of course, it`s the thrill-seeking. And you know, part of his deal in Hollywood is he gets attention. As long as he`s getting attention, why would he not continue to do the thing that gives him attention?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think he is probably an attention addiction. Michael Lohan thank you for joining us, as well as the rest of the panel and we do wish --

HOWARD: Thank you.

LOHAN: Jane, I --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Charlie Sheen, we hope you get sober. We hope Lindsay stays sober. You`re watching ISSUES.

END