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Triple Murder Suspect Gives Detailed Confession; Amanda Knox Sickened by Lifetime Movie

Aired February 8, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, incomprehensible evil revealed, the gut-wrenching confession of a mother who slaughtered a mother, son, and friend and stuffed them inside a hollow tree. He admits, "I did not know a single one of them." So why did he do it? ISSUES has assembled a team of crime victims and experts to ask what can society do about monsters like this?

Then, an uproar over how Amanda Knox is portrayed in a new movie. The 23-year-old American was found guilty of murdering her roommate. Tonight, I`ll tell you what Amanda is saying about the controversial movie based on her murder case.

Plus, stunning new twists and turns in the case of a woman who solved her own kidnapping. Carlina White figured out she was snatched from a Bronx hospital as a newborn. But now, her emotional reunion with her parents after 23 long years has gone sour. Could money be at the center of the fallout?

And anger (ph) over a Georgia lawmaker`s new plan to sugarcoat rape. He`s pushing to redefine rape victims as accusers until there`s a conviction. There`d still be burglary and crime victims, so why not rape victims? Is he doubling their pain? We`ll talk to rape victims tonight and take your calls.

ISSUES starts now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Those stories coming in a moment, but we start with fast-breaking news tonight. Lindsay Lohan is about to be slapped with a felony grand theft charge.

An L.A. prosecutor told CNN Lilo will be arraigned tomorrow afternoon -- that`s right -- in court. She`s accused of stealing that $2,500 necklace from a store.

Now Lindsay is still on probation for a 2007 DUI. She promised the judge last summer that, despite several missteps, she was taking her probation very, very seriously. Listen.


LINDSAY LOHAN, ARRESTED FOR GRAND THEFT: I know that I was ordered to go once a week and it was, you know, I wasn`t missing the classes just hanging out and doing anything like that. I was working, mostly in Morocco, the trip I was working with children. It wasn`t a vacation. It was some sort of a joke. And I respect you, and I`ve been taking it seriously.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a big day tomorrow. Don`t miss ISSUES tomorrow. We will have the very latest on Lindsay`s latest legal disaster.


SHERRIE BAXTER, STEPHANIE SPRANG`S SISTER: Death is too easy for him. And we`d rather let him pay the tax dollars to let him suffer and live and go through what he did every day. I don`t believe it was that simple. I just don`t. You know, if you are breaking into a house and you`re surprised, generally, you`re to knock that person out and take off. You`re not going to wait around for two hours for a few more people to come up.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, inside the mind of a killer. Just released, the chilling, bizarre confession from the killer who brutally slaughtered an innocent Ohio family.

It was a gruesome triple murder. Tina Hermann, her 11-year-old son, Kody, and a family friend murdered by the neighborhood stalker, their bodies dismembered and dumped inside a hollow tree.

Tonight Matthew Hoffman has confessed to police. He says he targeted this family at random. He was looking to rob a house, and their garage door just happened to be open.

Hoffman tells police he murdered mom, Tina, and her friend, Stephanie Sprang, because they surprised him. Then, he murdered Tina`s 11-year-old son Kody when the boy got home from school. Why? Why? He chopped their bodies up in the bathroom. In his bizarre confession, Hoffman referred to dismembering the bodies as "processing them."

The next day he used his tree-climbing equipment to drop those bodies into a hollow 60-foot tree in a remote state park. You`re looking at the tree right there. Unbelievable.

Meanwhile, Hoffman was holding 12-year-old Sarah, the sole survivor of this mass murder, prisoner in his basement. Hoffman describes in sickening detail Sarah`s nightmare.

For seven hellish days, this monster kept this preteen as a sex slave, raping her repeatedly. And yet, he paints himself as the perfect host. He says they ate hamburgers and played Wii games. He says he told the little girl she`d be home for Christmas. Thank God Sarah was found alive bound and gagged on a bed made of tree leaves in his basement.

Tonight, yes, we are covering this horrific, graphic story, but with a plan: to explore how we can stop the madness of sadistic violence in our culture. So tonight, here on ISSUES, I have assembled a panel of war on women warriors.

Give me a call. Join in this dialogue: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight out to victim`s rights attorney Gloria Allred. Gloria, this four-page confession is the result of some kind of deal Hoffman made to avoid the death penalty.

I`ve got to ask you, Gloria: is our criminal justice system re- victimizing young Sara and her extended family members by releasing the horrific details of this confession and making them relive the horror of this all over again?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, it may be that part of the reason for the deal, Jane, was because the other family members wanted to know how it was that this occurred, how their family members were killed, how he was able to get in, and where the bodies were. In exchange for providing that information, they get perhaps the confession and the description of what happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but does it have to be released to the public?

ALLRED: Well, in a criminal case, yes. The public is entitled to know what the evidence is that supports a charge and that supports a conviction. I`ve got to tell you more about this very, very, very evil man.

Shortly after murdering these three people, two women and a young boy, this guy goes to a Wal-Mart. Now, we`re going to see surveillance video right here of him walking through the store aisles. There he is. He eventually ended up buying items that he used to conceal the bodies.

One of those items was the garbage bags that he put all of their body parts in before dumping them into a tree. Now look how eerily calm he is. He just murdered three people. He`s walking around shopping like, whatever. It`s just another day at the mall.

Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist, what does this extraordinarily blase attitude say about this man`s mindset?

JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, it clearly indicates that he has no remorse, no guilt and is able just to continue on his way. Like he said, like he didn`t murder them. I mean, he`s the scariest of individuals because he`s truly a psychopath.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sheeba, Illinois, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Hi, Jane.

I am tired of hearing about people being -- he`s depressed. He`s psychosocial. There are people in this world walking around that are downright mean. They`re not nice. They are mean and would hurt anybody or anything at the spur of a moment. And I...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right.

CALLER: Pardon me?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right. And I`m going to tell you and tell our viewers about this guy`s back story. It`s so scary.

Neighbors describe Hoffman as the town weirdo. He was a tree trimmer who happened to be out of work and living with his parents, this 31-year- old guy. He apparently hid in the tree tops in his neighborhood and secretly spied on people in the neighborhood. Listen to this.


KANA FOWLER, MATTHEW HOFFMAN`S NEIGHBOR: He was killing the squirrels, because he doesn`t --he doesn`t grocery shop. And he would actually kill the squirrels and eat them.

DONNA DAVIS, NEIGHBOR: He was a weirdo. I mean, he really was a weirdo. Like, he sat in the trees. If you looked back there in the trees, there`s a hammock where he would sit and watch people. He`s just different.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He killed squirrels in his family`s yard and ate them. Now aren`t these like giant warning bells? I think as a culture, we have to be more vigilant. If there is a neighborhood creep hiding in trees, eating the squirrels in the yard, watching people, shouldn`t our justice system have a way to intervene and do something about that?

I want to go to Katie Callaway Hall. You were kidnapped and raped by Philip Garrido. As a victim of horrific violent crime, you`ve got to wonder: couldn`t these people have been alerted in some way, shape or form so they would have known to keep their garage door locked, because this guy was lurking down the block?

KATIE CALLAWAY HALL, RAPE VICTIM: Yes, you know, and this reminds me about that young man who shot Gabby, the senator, in the head. I mean everyone said he was a weirdo; he acted strange. You know, why -- why didn`t someone take the next step and -- and do something about it.

I know that Philip Garrido was also determined to be strange in his own environment. But you know, we`ve got to be a little bit more, you know, I don`t know, militant? I don`t know. Just we`ve got to start policing our own neighborhoods and our own environments and our own communities.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We absolutely have to. Now of course, you can`t arrest somebody for being a weirdo. That`s the problem. But there`s got to be a way to intervene if they are behaving in a dangerous fashion, and we can all see the handwriting on the wall.

We`re just getting started. Everyone hang tight. And we`re taking your calls. What`s the solution, America? 1-877-JVM-SAYS; 1-877-586-7297.

After 23 years living with the woman she thought was her mom, Carlina White made a shocking discovery that she had been kidnapped as an infant. Now, she was reunited with her biological family. It was just all joy and happiness. Guess what? Their relationship has gone sour. We`re going tell you about.

Plus, much more to talk about. A jaw-dropping Ohio murder. A family just slaughtered by this guy.


SPRANG: I was not surprised that he did not speak, because that`s what cowards do. I was not happy that I asked him to hold his head up like a man and look at me, because he wouldn`t that. Because if you`re man enough to think that you can commit these kinds of crimes, you should at least be man enough to look your victim`s families in the face.




STEVE THOMPSON, STEPHANIE SPRANG`S FATHER: We`ve been talking about the good times. And the -- and the times when she was there. And trying to remember that -- the things that were. And bringing them in to the future with us. But it`s hard.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a killer speaks out. Matthew Hoffman brutally murdered an Ohio family, kidnapping the young daughter and holding her prisoner for days on end, raping her.

Tonight, his sick and twisted confession has been made public, and we are trying to figure out how to stop demented monsters like this from doing this to another family. What can we do to intervene before they kill?

Dan in Illinois, your question or thought, sir?

CALLER: We`ve got to stop making it possible for people like the guy who did the shooting in Arizona. You know, trying to look for people who might be guilty or might, you know, might have a chance of this event. But that guy walked up in front of all of the people and did it. And yet he`s standing trial. It should be right off to jail, and get the death penalty.

We don`t -- we don`t reward people for the crime. You know, you do a little crime, you go to jail. A big crime like that, you maybe get six years in jail. We`ve got to start making it life in prison for murder. We`ve just got to.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this guy is doing life in prison, but he could have gotten the death penalty, except that he reached a deal. And now he`s going be in jail at taxpayer expense for the rest of his life just for having told cops the sick story of what he did to these people and leading them to the bodies.

My big issue tonight: what is the solution to horrific, seemingly random violence. How do we intervene earlier with extremely disturbed individuals and stop them before they kill?

Our society seems more focused on punishing the criminals after they kill than preventing them from killing in the first place. As I write my book, "Addict Nation," it`s hard to claim credit for stopping a crime that never happened in the first place.

Prevention doesn`t give us the adrenaline rush that every addict craves. Crime and punishment does. There are no dramas, no TV shows, no crime dramas about the prevention of crime. So this is my call to action. And I want to get my panel`s take. How do we evolve beyond crime and punishment to prevent this crime?

Liz Seccuro, you were sexually assaulted when you were a 17-year-old college student, and you`re the author of "Crash into Me: A Survivor`s Search for Justice." How do we rewind the clock and stop these people before they rape and kill?

SECCURO: Well, I think in my case, Jane, you know, I came from -- my crime happened in a culture that fostered that sort of behavior. So you`re looking at a herd mentality.

When you`re talking about Hoffman, too, those are huge signs, when you`re talking about lighting fires, and killing animals, and eating them. I think that it all goes back to if you see something, say something. Why are we so afraid in this post-9/11 era not to call people out? Why are we afraid?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Gloria Allred, you`re a victim`s rights attorney. You can`t arrest somebody -- well, you should be able to arrest somebody for -- for shooting a squirrel in your yard and eating it. I think that would be the animal cruelty, to me. But I don`t know if that`s the legal definition.

But, yet, we all see weirdoes in our midst, and we feel helpless against them. We feel like we can`t do anything. Is there anything legally, rewinding the clock to the time this guy was sitting in trees, secretly spying on his neighbors and doing all sorts of strange things, setting fires and shooting the squirrels, that we could have done?

ALLRED: Well, it`s kind of like the old broken-windows philosophy of many police officers, which is if you try to deal with the issues when they are small crimes, then maybe you can prevent the bigger crimes later on.

So I agree with you, Jane: we have to deal with not just crime and punishment; we have to deal with prevention. It`s not as sexy. It`s not as exciting, but it`s very important. And it may be able to prevent dangerous and criminal acts much later.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go back to Katie Callaway Hall. You were kidnapped and raped by Philip Garrido. And we have video, I think, of Philip Garrido decades -- decades before he kidnapped Jaycee Dugard and held her for 18 years, raping her repeatedly and fathering two children by her.

Now, here`s a perfect example of how police could have intervened after you were horrifically attacked. They kept him in prison only about a decade, let him out. And he was on parole. And these -- these parole officers never even realized that he had a woman and two children living in the back yard of his house in a ward of tents. And they even met Jaycee Dugard and didn`t connect the dots.

HALL: Yes. This is -- this is outrageous, isn`t it? I mean, even after I went to them, when he approached me, when he hunted me down, when he was out on parole and approached me at my work, and I went to the parole officers and told them, they didn`t take me seriously. And so he was classified low-risk. And as a low-risk offender, he wasn`t watched properly. So I mean, look what happens. And you`ve got Jaycee.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So let`s not treat anybody who`s ever done anything violent as low risk. If we learn that one lesson, I think we would have -- we would have gone a long way to stopping this kind of horrific random violence.

Thank you, panel.

We want to remind you that Nancy Grace is now airing every day from 8 to 10 p.m. Eastern. And during the second hour, you can catch Nancy Grace`s "America`s Missing." Find 50 people in 50 days. Tonight, an update on the search for Nonnie Datsun.

And coming up, Carlina White discovered she`d been kidnapped as an infant, and now her reunion with her parents has gone sour.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, convicted killer Amanda Knox says seeing herself portrayed in a Lifetime movie made her want to throw up. The American nicknamed Foxy Knoxy, who is serving time in Italy, said she, quote, "felt physically ill" after seeing clips from the movie "Amanda Knox: Murder on Trial in Italy."

The movie is set to air later this month on Lifetime. Actress Hayden Panettiere plays Amanda in the movie. Here is a preview.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda, I hope this trip is everything you`ve dreamed of.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Italy, they say everything is legal and nothing`s forbidden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amanda Marie Knox, a good person, a good student.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Knox, who will be played, again, by Hayden Panettiere, is serving 26 years for killing her British roommate, Meredith Kercher, back in 2007. Prosecutors said it was during a drug-fueled sex game. Right now Amanda Knox is appealing that verdict.

Knox`s attorneys wants Lifetime to pull this movie. Even the victim`s parents want this movie cancelled.

Straight out to criminal defense attorney Ann Bremner. Ann, could a movie like this hurt Amanda Knox`s appeal?

ANN BREMNER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, absolutely. And I think that we heard, of course, from her family and her lawyers, Jane, because they want to block the movie and they`ve written letters to Lifetime. And the fact is, a picture speaks 1,000 words again, or can.

What about a picture like this that has a trailer that shows her killing Meredith, participating in the act? And with Rudy Guede, the wrong killer in our mind, being there as a nice guy. All of this can hurt her appeal when right now we have an independent review of forensics that have been ordered. The first good thing that`s ever happened to Amanda Knox in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Rudy Guede is another guy who was there that night who has also been convicted. And it was Amanda and her boyfriend who say they really had nothing to do with it. Now, Amanda Knox`s family is also very upset about the Lifetime movie. Here is Amanda`s mom on "Good Morning, America".


EDDA MELLAS, AMANDA KNOX`S MOTHER: The never talked to us. So how can somebody play you when they`ve never met you or don`t know you? It`s bizarre. It`s surreal.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Lifetime`s removed the movie trailer from their Web site. So I`m wondering if the pressure is having an impact. Do you think it`s possible they could cancel this movie?

BREMNER: Well, I would think that they would. And think about false light, intellectual property. Think about tainting a trial. And then thinking about the fact that no one`s been consulted in any way, like Edda Mellas, her mother, said. There`s a whole panoply of reasons for them to cancel this movie. And at the very least, delay it until after the appeal is heard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, she`s been convicted. Does that mean it`s open season, you can say whatever was proved at the trial or claimed at the trial since she was convicted? Or could the family sue over what they consider as an unfair portrayal?

BREMNER: They could sue over that, absolutely. But I think what`s more important to them, as opposed to what the portrayal is, from the evidence, what -- anyone believes the evidence to be is remember the Sam Shepherd case, that "The Fugitive" series, where a man was wrongfully convicted of murder based on publicity alone and the U.S. Supreme Court in our country reversed the whole case. He died later, of course, before justice was done for him.

But look at Amanda Knox. Foxy Knoxy, the way she`s been portrayed, is some kind of a sex slayer in the Italian media and the U.K. This movie just would be insult to injury and then some.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. Thank you much. Great to see you.

Carlina White, reunited with her parents after she discovered she was kidnapped 23 years ago. Now, the relationship has gone totally south. We`ll tell you why it`s crumbling.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) * VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stunning new twists and turns in the case of a woman who solved her own kidnapping. Carlina White figured out she was snatched from a Bronx hospital as a newborn. But now her emotional reunion with her parents after 23 long years has gone sour. Could money be at the center of the fallout?

And outrage over a Georgia lawmaker`s new plan to sugar coat rape. He`s pushing to redefine rape victims as accusers until there`s a conviction. There`s burglary and fraud victims, so why not rape victims? Is he doubling their pain? We`ll talk to rape victims tonight and take your calls.


PAT CONWAY, CARLINA`S GODMOTHER: Carlina was a missing link and we have gotten her back in the name of Jesus, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: From hallelujah to hell -- tonight, from family fairy tale to bitter falling out. In just a few weeks, the whole nation cheered when Carlina White reunited with her long-lost parents just last month. Her mysterious kidnapping as a newborn 23 years ago had come to a joyful resolution. Hallelujah. But is the honeymoon already over.

Carlina`s biological mom says they`re now estranged and she feels as if she has lost her daughter all over again. She told NBC that Carlina is motivated by money.


JOY WHITE, MOTHER OF CARLINA WHITE: I`m disappointed because this was a miracle that happened. You know? It`s breathtaking, you know? It`s -- it`s mind blowing. And I just wanted to get that there out there, you know, that we found, you know, our daughter and that we`re happy. We`re reunited and I wanted to share that with the world you know. And it really hurts me, you know, that it`s -- it`s about money.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, while Carlina`s mom was doing that interview, her ex-husband was on another network telling a totally different story about his relationship with the daughter. Check this out from CBS.


CARL TYSON, CARLINA WHITE`S FATHER: Everybody`s great this morning. I speak to my daughter just about every morning, I text her. Of course, I don`t like that texting stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you`ll learn to like it for her.

TYSON: I told her, you text me two days, but then I have to hear you on the third day. I have to hear that voice. But everything is great.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everything`s great -- really? Is he sugar coating it? Why the two different versions of the family drama? What about the hundreds of thousands of dollars Carlina`s parents had put aside for her in a trust? Her mom said, it`s gone, it`s all gone. And you`re going to hear her explanation in a moment.

Straight out to Alexis Teresczuk from RadarOnline; Alexis, what the heck happened here? I mean this family had been the feel-good story of the year. We were celebrating. Not so much anymore.

ALEXIS TERESCZUK, REPORTER, RADARONLIN: No. This is the worst thing that could have happened to this family. Apparently the hospital gave Carlina`s parents $750,000 in a settlement after she had been kidnapped. And they put -- each parent took $163,000 for themselves. They put the rest of the money in a trust for her until she turned 21.

Well, when she turned 21, she still hadn`t been found, so the parents split that money and it is gone. There isn`t a penny left. Apparently Carlina found out about this and she is devastated. She doesn`t understand where the money went. Her mom said she had living expenses but this was only two years ago. They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in these two years.

So she`s really concerned that perhaps her family is out for the money and this has really devastated her. She`s apparently going through a lot of really traumatic emotional issues right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it raises the question, where did the money go? I mean, after their infant was kidnapped, ok, from the hospital, Carlina`s parents as it was mentioned, they sued the city and they won this $750,000 settlement. They put half of it in a trust fund that would go to Carlina; apparently if she was found before she turned 21. Well that didn`t happen.

But then Carlina solved her own kidnapping at the age of 23 and she apparently wants to know where did all that money go? And here is what her mom told NBC.


WHITE: It`s gone. We don`t have the money you know. We both have to live. We put that money for her. We decided to put that up for her ourselves. And at the time, things was like really rocky with me and as far as the living situation and stuff like that. And I have two other kids -- a son and a daughter, you know? And I had to take care of myself. And I had to live.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jawn Murray, AOL Black Voices columnist in the D.C. bureau. I`m thinking it all depends on when they spent the money. If they waited until after she was 21 and then that`s the way the trust was set up, I don`t think that there`s a problem with them spending the money. They only said they were going to keep it until she was 21. But I`m kind of getting the feeling that maybe they started spending it a long time ago. What`s your take on it?

JAWN MURRAY, COLUMNIST, AOL`S BLACK VOICES: Well, Jane, I think the money should be the least of the things here. After your child has been missing for two decades, you never think you`re going to see them again. I mean clearly, the people probably spent the money and they were living off of it. They never thought they would see the girl again.

But the fact that the daughter is worried about the money, that`s what`s alarming to me. It`s making the story go from sounding like a hallmark movie to more like a lifetime tragedy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Now, Alexis, clarify this. You seem to indicate that they spent the money legally, correctly, after she reached 21 and still hadn`t been found. Do you have evidence of that or --

TERESCZUK: That`s what we understand from people that we spoke with that they did wait until she was 21. It wasn`t that they spent the money over 21 years. It was apparently only in the last two years that all this money was spent.

You have to remember after taxes -- I`m not sure how that exactly works, but you know $750,000 is a lot of money split two ways and then 50 percent taken out. This could be something they did use for living expenses, but it`s a lot of money.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Janet Taylor, what do you make of the focus on the moolah here?

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Oh, I think it`s the wrong focus. I mean clearly, this is a family that has had multiple traumas, difficulty communicating, lots of guilt, lots of anger, different families. They need to settle down, forget about the money, and decide on one thing that they all value and work towards it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And here`s my big issue -- great expectations - - not. Look, these reunions aren`t all rainbows and butterflies. There`re very, very complicated feelings involved here and quite possibly unrealistic hopes for some kind of instant bond. It`s a fantasy, really.

Here`s another clip of Carlina`s mom from "The Today Show". Check this out.


WHITE: She`s with the family. And that`s all she knows. And I`m her mother and it hurts not to have a relationship with her. It really hurts. And I -- I want my daughter back. I want her here and I want her to spend some time with me and the family and I want her to get to know me. It`s like we`re two strangers.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to say, Jawn Murray -- there`s two ways. There seems to be a lot of "me" in that statement. Spend time with me. Get to know me. Sort of narcissistic. But by the same token, you can tell that she has a feeling of love inside her. I`m feeling sorry for this lady.

MURRAY: Well, you know, the woman clearly is a victim here. We can`t be mad at her for wanting to really reconnect and get to know her daughter. The girl was gone for more than 21 years.

I mean it`s a heart-wrenching tale. And the woman clearly isn`t an actress. If she`s an actress then she should go get Mo`nique`s Oscar because you can really feel all of the emotion she`s conveying in that interview.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I agree with you. Let`s face it. Let`s remind ourselves, that mom is a victim. She had a little baby that was snatched away from her.

Carlina`s suspected kidnapper is Ann Pettway, the woman who raised her. Police say Pettway confessed to posing as a nurse and snatching 19- day-old Carlina -- there`s the suspected kidnapper -- from a hospital in 1987.

Now, this young infant was raised by this woman as Nedra Nance (ph). And as she grew older, she became suspicious of her so-called mom and her true identity because her mom couldn`t provide her with a birth certificate.

Carline turned detective and eventually found her own baby photo on a missing children`s Web site and solved the mystery herself.

And here`s the odd part. Ann Pettway has yet to be indicted even though she confessed, according to published reports. So Alexis Teresczuk, I`m wondering, is there some kind of plea deal in the works here because Carlina`s father wants her to get 23 years behind bars; a year in prison for every year that he was deprived of his daughter.

TERESCZUK: Absolutely there is. Her attorney -- while he said -- he didn`t ask for bail. That wasn`t anything that he`d asked for. They`ve definitely been talking back and forth and trying to work out a deal for her. It`s something that I don`t think that very many people are going to want to see her get away with this. It`s a -- it`s a horrible crime and this family was deeply affected.

As you were saying, you know, Carlina has apparently gone back to the name that this woman gave her. She`s really going through a tough time with this. I think she is, after all the publicity and the fanfare of being excited to be reunited with her birth parents, this has apparently been incredibly traumatic for her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I knew it, that the joy and hallelujah was going to wear off. The shock would wear off and the reality would set in and there was going to be some fallout. I predicted this back when the story first happened although I didn`t want to be right. I wanted to be wrong.

Mandy, Indiana your question or thought?

MANDY, INDIANA (via telephone): Hi, Jane. This is Mandy from Indiana. And I was just wondering why can`t the daughter sue the hospital?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, that`s an interesting idea, Jawn Murray. The city awarded the parents money. But she`s a victim too. Now that she`s surfaced, why can`t she sue again?

I`m sure every high-priced lawyer in the business has been calling her phone. This has Gloria Allred written all over it. I mean I`m surprised she hasn`t --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s on the panel. We`re going to ask her about that in a second.

TAYLOR: Yes. But the case was settled.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. But it was settled without her being in the picture. She was kidnapped. So it may have been settled but now it`s very unsettled. Maybe now she should take matters into her own hands and get a little reward for all of the suffering that she endured. Thank you so much, fabulous panel.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s ok to call them burglary victims, fraud victims, but a Georgia lawmaker doesn`t think we should call women rape victims until there`s a conviction. What? Doesn`t that diminish the whole notion of being a victim, a rape victim? The victim of a horrifying ordeal -- why should we call them rape accusers?

I personally am outraged by this suggestion. And I want you to call me and tell me what you think? 1-877-JVM-SAYS, that`s 1-877-586-7297. It`s next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: My new book, "Addict Nation", available online now at

Tonight`s winner: Julia from Wisconsin. Julia suffered severe muscle pain and was popping 60 milligrams of prescribed diazepam a day. Then two years ago, she said enough. She was able to wean herself off. And today she says, "I feel alive again."

Julia, way to go, you`ve won a signed copy of my new book, "Addict Nation".

Send your story about overcoming addiction to and you could win a signed copy of my new book, "Addict Nation" available online now. Go to and order it. Check it out.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Give women hope, rape is not a joke. Give women hope, rape is not a joke.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, an attack on the war on women from a very unlikely direction -- a Georgia lawmaker. He`s supposed to support taxpayers. Last time I checked, women are taxpayers. He says he doesn`t believe rape victims exist. Yes, you heard me right.

State representative Bobby Franklin says he doesn`t like the phrase, rape victim. And if he had his way, they would be called rape accusers. Are you kidding me mister? You mean to tell me that our law should protect violent sex offenders like John Gardner and Phillip Garrido more than their innocent victims? And yes I used the word victim? And I`m not going to stop.

Young women like Chelsea King and Amber Dubois who were brutally raped murdered by John Gardner. Are victims like this just rape accusers? Jaycee Dugard who was held captive for 18 years and allegedly raped repeatedly by Phillip Garrido producing two children. She would only be a rape accuser, too? He still hasn`t gone to trial for that case.

This country already has a hard enough time getting women to report rape. Gee, I was looking at the stats here. Only about 6 percent of rapists ever spend a day in jail. 60 percent of rapes and sexual assaults are not reported to police. And this attitude is why.

Do we really want to send a message that we don`t believe these women who have the courage to report the crime against them? What do you think about this? I personally am outraged. Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to three very special guests: famed victim rights attorney, Gloria Allred; and two rape survivors, Liz Seccuro, who was sexually assaulted as a college student; and Katie Callaway Hall, who was raped by Phillip Garrido decades before he allegedly kidnapped and raped Jaycee Dugard.

So, Katie, I want to begin with you. What is your reaction to this lawmaker`s proposal that until Phillip Garrido was convicted in your case, you should have only been called a rape accuser?

HALL: You know what, Jane; when I read this article what it said to me was that for Senator Franklin, the line has gotten a little bit blurry on the black and white definition of rape.

And let me just clarify it for him. You know, Senator Franklin, a rape is a rape is a rape. And it doesn`t matter whether you knew the person. It doesn`t matter whether you were held down or not and it doesn`t matter whether you submitted out of fear. It`s still called rape.

And the fact that he wants to classify the different levels of seriousness of rapes or types of rapes, that tells me that this man on some level still thinks that men have a right to force themselves on women in some situations.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to tell you, we called Representative Franklin`s office. Nobody called us back. But I want to say that Representative Franklin, you are invited on our show, ISSUES, anytime. We would love to grill you.

Here on ISSUES we empower rape victims to come forward; women like Liz Seccuro who was sexually assaulted while she was a college student. Here she is on ISSUES recently.


LIZ SECCURO, RAPE VICTIM: I was given a drink that was apparently spiked with something and you`ll see on the cover of the book that`s what the drink is and I was actually gang-raped although we did not know that at the time. I recalled one of the rapes and I woke up tossed on a sofa in a sheet naked, covered in blood.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Liz, you felt the university didn`t support you when you reported the rape that you experienced -- the gang rape. Does this lawmaker`s attitude erase in your mind any progress women have made since you were attacked in 1984?

SECCURO: No, we`re going backwards if anything. This is so good old boy network. You can be a fraud victim. You can be a theft victim. You can be a robbery victim but suddenly you have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt for this alleged rapist to have actually raped you. You are not a victim.

And, to me, the word accuser, almost -- you can see the word false sort of floating in there. I think that`s the undercurrent that suddenly we`re all false accusers just looking to put men behind bars.

I think that this man -- I think any woman who works for this man in the district needs to quit immediately. This is just the most ridiculous thing taking us backwards.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria Allred, your reaction?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHT ATTORNEY: Well, I think what the legislator is saying is that unless and until there`s a conviction in a court of law, he thinks the person who is now classified as the victim of the rape should be the accuser. I disagree with him. I think that person should be called the victim or at least the alleged victim. That`s what she is.

She is not the accuser. The person who is, in fact, doing the accusing, Jane, is the prosecutor.


ALLRED: That is the person who has filed the criminal charge, not the person who is the alleged victim.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are so right. Stay right where you are. On the other side, calls.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rape is a real crime. Simmons (ph) should do real time. Rape is a real crime. Simmons should do real time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a slap in the face in the war on women. Georgia lawmaker Bobby Franklin who I just found out is married with three kids introduced a bill that would eliminate the word victim when it applies to victims of rape, stalking or family violence. He wants to call them accusers instead. I personally find it outrageous.

Denise, New Hampshire, what is your thought or question, ma`am?

DENISE, NEW HAMPSHIRE (via telephone): Well, like you, I was outraged when I heard this because in my adult life I know most of my acquaintances were either abused as children or they know of someone that was. So to not call it a rape or abuse is just not correct and the people I know, none of those people accused their victims. It just happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. You make a very good point. Most rapes are not reported. And in 2008, I`m reading from my book "Addict Nation", less than half of all rapes were cleared with the capture of a suspect. So, essentially, we`re asking most women to never have any sense of justice to even be able to call themselves victims. That`s outrageous.

And I have to go to Liz Seccuro, not to be too graphic but obviously if a woman is raped and she does a rape kit and DNA turns up in that rape kit that means that she was penetrated. And so to say that she`s just accusing, it`s essentially telling the world you`re lying until proven to be not to be a liar. You had consensual sex essentially is what it is implying.

SECCURO: That is the implication and that`s where it`s dangerous ground and I wonder like what`s his angle on this and why is this his platform and why is it so important to him now? And what do his constituents think?

And it goes to the point, too, most rapes are never reported so what are you then because you`re not going through the adjudication process. Then are you a rape victim? I love the word survivor but you have to be something. You are a rape victim whether or not you report it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think is behind this, Katie Callaway Hall? I can`t really figure it out. Why would this Republican state legislator in Georgia --


HALL: It makes you wonder, doesn`t it?


HALL: It makes you wonder if he`s like not harboring some fear of being accused in the future or something like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. I think we have to be careful.

HALL: We`ve all seen it in politicians. I understand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do have to say we have to be careful. We`re not accusing him of anything. He is a Georgia state representative. He`s invited on the show anytime to tell his side of the story. We did reach out to him. He didn`t call us back.

But I want to get back, Gloria Allred, to the whole idea of when a woman says she is raped and she goes to the police station and then they go to the hospital and she has a rape kit done and semen turns up. For her not to be called a victim is implying that she had consensual sex with somebody and you what rape -- what rapists often say. She wanted it and it was rough sex.

ALLRED: Well, yes, Jane. Also this suggestion, this proposal is highly suspect in my opinion because apparently he`s not suggesting that victims of robbery, of burglary, of fraud be called accusers or even alleged victims. Why is he suggesting that victims of rape or harassment or stalking or of domestic violence be called accusers? Those are crimes that primarily --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to leave it right there.