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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
Interview With the Winklevoss Twins; Interview With Michael Oher
Aired February 12, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, the true life stories behind two of Hollywood's biggest blockbusters, and the real-life characters who inspired them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAX MINGHELLA, ACTOR, "THE SOCIAL NETWORK": Just wanted to let you know that Zuckerberg stole our Web site.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: The "Social Network" tells the extraordinary how Mark Zuckerberg created Facebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE EISENBERG, ACTOR, "THE SOCIAL NETWORK": How is that different from MySpace or Friendster?
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: But tonight, I'm interviewing the two Harvard twins who say it was all their idea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON WINKLEVOSS, TWINS CLAIM THEY THOUGHT OF FACEBOOK FIRST: I'm 6'5", 220. And there's two of me.
TYLER WINKLEVOSS, TWINS CLAIM THEY THOUGHT OF FACEBOOK FIRST: And there's two of me.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Everybody knows them as the Winklevi.
C. WINKLEVOSS: It's Winklevoss, Piers.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Nobody calls us Winklevi.
MORGAN: Tonight, I'll ask Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss what they really want from Mr. Zuckerberg.
And the man behind "The Blind Side." The extraordinary story of how Michael Oher's rose from rags to the riches of the NFL. MICHAEL OHER, FOOTBALL PLAYER: Hey, Piers, wait until you hear my story. It's way better than the movie.
MORGAN: The real story behind two of Hollywood's biggest blockbusters. Only on PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss. Welcome. Are you Winklevi?
MORGAN: I saw it last year. I mean it should be technically, isn't it?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Winklevoss is fine.
MORGAN: In the movie, "Social Network," you're played by the same actor.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Right.
MORGAN: That must have been weird, wasn't it, watching one guy play both of you?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Well, it was definitely -- we had to remind ourselves, even though we knew that there were some CGI effects and -- after a while, you're watching the movie and you kind of forget that it's one guy playing two people. So he definitely I thought captured two distinct personalities.
MORGAN: But he looks a bit like you and he sounds a bit like you. It's a pretty good portrayal.
When you first saw the movie -- were you, to start with, reluctant? How were you feeling? Did you want to go and see it?
T. WINKLEVOSS: There's definitely a lot of uncertainty. I think there is a relief when it was over that our story was told and we were portrayed which -- what we believe is a positive light. So from that --
MORGAN: Even if the story really, when you end up with buckets of cash, but not the large bucket you think you're entitled to. And the story really is the story of how your business lives got ruined.
So it's not a happy ending, really, is it? It's a misery -- watching your own death.
T. WINKLEVOSS: The good thing is that we don't think the story is fully told yet. So we have that hope.
MORGAN: I want you to see a clip from the film and we'll talk about this in a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, well, we have something that we've been working on for a while and we think it's great. It's called the Harvard Connection. You create your own page, interests, bio, friends, pics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then people can go online and see your bio, request to be --
EISENBERG: Yes. How is that different from MySpace or Friendster?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harvard.edu.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harvard.edu is the most prestigious e-mail address in the country. The whole site is kind of based on the idea that girls -- not to put (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Girls want to go with guys who go to Harvard.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: When you see Mark Zuckerberg, and any guys, whether it's the actor playing him or you see pictures of him on the cover of a magazine, it's tough. What do you actually think of him right now? Honestly?
T. WINKLEVOSS: There's so many things to think. But we sort of stay focused on what we have to do which is to right the wrong. So --
MORGAN: When you see that head, I mean, do you think, you know, monster? Vile? Greedy? Horrible?
C. WINKLEVOSS: We see --
MORGAN: What do you think?
C. WINKLEVOSS: We certainly see a person who is where he is today absolutely because we approached him with our idea, our business plan, and two years of worth of work. So he's very much where he is because he interacted with myself, Tyler and Divya Narendra.
MORGAN: Look, to play devil's advocate. Here's the thing. I watched the movie. Fascinating story. I think the whole Facebook story is extraordinary. And Zuckerberg, clearly, you wouldn't dispute is a bright guy. Right?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Sure, I mean he's intelligent.
MORGAN: Intelligent. Business is littered with stories of people who have the germ of an idea but is never really going to go anywhere. Didn't he just come along and go, I really like that idea, but I've got a better one?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Right. Well, there's nothing normal about the way he conducted business. He broke the law and that's why he got ahead. And, you know, you bring up a very good question. There's always that sort of debate. Is it execution or is it the idea? Is it a little bit of both?
In this case, we believe that the idea is really the essential core component to this thing. Because what basically the social network is is a platform that is then built by 500 -- at this point 500 billion users.
So this idea that it's -- that Mark Zuckerberg executed it to a greater degree is just false. We were in a partnership and then he used his skill set to basically self-deal in his own interests and take the entire project from us. And it's -- there's multiple electronic communications that show that he knew that we were going to execute. He felt that we were capable and the only way to basically get around us was to stall us and (INAUDIBLE) us.
MORGAN: What is he? A cheat?
T. WINKLEVOSS: That's one way of putting it.
MORGAN: A school cheat? The guy that looks over your shoulder and nicks some of your best lines?
T. WINKLEVOSS: No. It's worse than that because when you enter a partnership, you have fiduciary responsibilities. You're a team. So he defrauded us by telling us he was going to complete Harvard Connection. At the same time acknowledging to his friends that we were capable of launching Harvard Connection and that we would have the first move of advantage.
And that we would go on to be a great site. So he -- what he did was, he told us, he was -- you know he said, I want to be a partner, and then he told us he was going to be completing the site, the whole time he was completing an identical product, which was the Facebook which we learned about by reading the Harvard newspaper.
MORGAN: You sued him. Very famously and you got $60 odd million --
T. WINKLEVOSS: That's not entirely true.
MORGAN: Isn't it?
T. WINKLEVOSS: What we agreed to and what we got are two different things. Facebook shortchanged us on the stock. They gave us 1/4 the amount of shares that would be required to uphold the agreed upon $65 million value.
MORGAN: And is that part of our ongoing dispute, then?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Yes. That's the basis of us challenging the settlement agreement that we entered into in 2008 right now.
MORGAN: If you take your word for it, and I don't really know where the truth lies. You've got two warring partners. He disputes your version. If we take your word for it, why did you get so little money? I mean if the company is worth X billion dollars and, you know, people decided you were telling the truth, and your idea had been stolen, why didn't you get $4 billion? T. WINKLEVOSS: That's a great question. At the time we settled, we had nowhere near the evidence that actually exists today. So we knew something had been done wrong. But what Facebook did throughout the entire litigation was suppress and withhold all of the smoking gun electronic communications of Mark Zuckerberg.
So when we were at the mediation, we had a very good case, but it looks dramatically different today, now that we've seen the evidence that's been leaked. So we didn't get what we -- what they legally should have disclosed to us, so that explains why the number is not what you would expect.
MORGAN: OK, I mean, look, your big thing about Mark Zuckerberg is that he's only in it for the money, isn't it? I've read you say that many times.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Well, there's -- I think there's way a person would act the way he did if it wasn't about money.
MORGAN: Is he -- again, devil's advocate, I mean, aren't you guys also just in this for the money now?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Well, this is a very principled --
MORGAN: Are you all -- isn't it like a stain on all your houses? I mean you've all made millions. If I'm an average viewer watching this, I'm like, will you get over it? You two. You know -- there you were at Harvard, you had a good little idea. Some little geek runs off with a better idea and makes himself super rich.
You've ended up becoming super rich, and you're very immaculately tailored, you're hugely successful rowers. Presumably the women are cueing up. I mean life is pretty good for you. Why don't you let it go?
T. WINKLEVOSS: It's a good question, I understand that sentiment. But we can't get lost in the context or the astronomical dollar numbers. It's not our fault that this idea is so successful. And it's really a factor of the markets and what people are willing to pay for it.
That aside, principle is principle. Whether it's over -- we're talking about $2 or $200 billion.
MORGAN: It's not about money for you?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, it -- money is inextricably tied to the principle. In order --
OBAMA: What's more important?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Both have to be -- I'll tell you why both are important.
MORGAN: Because if it is about principle, then obviously you could give all the money to charity. Make a principled stand. (CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: If it was about the money, you would keep it and spend it on fast cars and yachts.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Right. Well, we haven't -- we haven't -- you know --
T. WINKLEVOSS: We don't want to give away the money before they hatch. Yes.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Absolutely. So principle in the sense that what he did was wrong and we are determined to right the wrong..
MORGAN: Well, you two think that you were effectively the creative geniuses behind Facebook.
C. WINKLEVOSS: We were absolutely the originator about the idea.
MORGAN: So my argument to you two is, if that's true, where has been the next great genius idea? Were you one-hit wonders?
T. WINKLEVOSS: No.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, w happened was that when Mark launched the Facebook, when we were completely blindsided by it, we launched our site later, but because of the damage, we were late to market. And of course, it was an insurmountable challenge.
At that point, we decided to pursue our other passion, which is athletics, which we've been, you know, fairly successful at. We were Olympians in 2008. And we -- the only avenue left or only recourse for us was litigation with regards to Facebook.
So we feel like we're just getting started and we certainly hope to continue to, you know, create -- be creative and --
MORGAN: Have you had another great idea?
C. WINKLEVOSS: We've got a couple of ideas in the works.
MORGAN: Try me. Or are you worried about me stealing it?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Yes. A little bit.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Cameron co-founded -- has co-founded a social media Web site called GuestsoftheGuests.com, which basically covers social news and interest stories.
MORGAN: How is that doing?
T. WINKLEVOSS: It's doing well. We've got --
MORGAN: What's it worth do you think?
T. WINKLEVOSS: I'd say probably in the millions.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Yes.
MORGAN: So I mean, I just don't know why you're bothering.
T. WINKLEVOSS: You can't do that to your partners. When you enter into an agreement and you have a responsibility --
MORGAN: But you go to Harvard, you get trained to be an attack dog in business?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Not really.
MORGAN: Isn't that the point of it? In their take everybody down. Isn't just attack dog speak?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Within the rules. Within the guidelines. At this moment in life, like in this time period, we have to hold him accountable. And back to the principle. If we don't -- if it's not tied to money, you can't extinguish the future temptation of Mark to misbehave or someone else.
If he can do it to us, he can do it to someone else. And then it becomes business as usual. And you know I hope to have a family one day, and if something was -- like this happens to my son, and I don't stand up for what's right for now, I'm going to blame myself. I'm going to say son, I'm sorry, I failed you. Because when I had the opportunity to stand up for what's right, I didn't. And I took the path of least resistance. And at this moment, it -- we have to stand for this.
C. WINKLEVOSS: And Piers, make no mistake. I mean, right now, we are in a position where we could walk away and be perfectly fine. But in choosing to pursue this and going forward, we're actually opening ourselves up to a lot of risk. There's no guarantee that we would do as well or better than we've currently done. In fact there's a risk that we could not do well at all.
T. WINKLEVOSS: We could lose everything.
MORGAN: OK. When we come back, I'm going to ask you if you use Facebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out. Twenty minutes. MINGHELLA: OK. I just wanted to let you know that Zuckerberg stole our Web site. Mark Zuckerberg? He stole our Web site. It's been alive for more than 36 hours.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Did that moment happen?
T. WINKLEVOSS: In effect we did, we first learned about Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg launching it by reading the Harvard student newspaper.
MORGAN: And what was your first reaction?
C. WINKLEVOSS: We were pretty shocked. I mean we were just totally blindsided. And we were reading the paper and sort of saying gee, this sounds a lot like what we're working on. Maybe there's two Mark Zuckerbergs on campus? And then we realized that no, wait, that's our idea, and that's the same guy.
MORGAN: When was the last time you spoke to him?
T. WINKLEVOSS: We spoke to him at the mediation in 2008.
MORGAN: You haven't spoken to him in, what, three years?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Yes.
MORGAN: What would you say to him now?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Right. I really think it's -- you're going to fail to grow as a human being if you don't reckon with your past in a fair and honest manner. And --
MORGAN: And if I'm Mark Zuckerberg, I don't give a damn if you think I'm not going to grow as a human being.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well --
MORGAN: I have $4 billion. Why should I care?
T. WINKLEVOSS: He clearly at this moment doesn't care. But he should because the size of your bank account is one component of being a rich human being. And he's lacking very much in other areas that he needs to grow.
C. WINKLEVOSS: In fact Mark has said I think on "60 Minutes," he said, you know, I think people remember you for what you built sort of in response to the whole -- all those sort of legal controversies surrounding it. And I think that's false. I think that's one aspect of it. But I think people really look at how you build something as well.
MORGAN: He comes over in a curious way in the film. I don't know how accurate the portrayal of him is. C. WINKLEVOSS: It's generous.
MORGAN: You think so?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Absolutely.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Absolutely. There is a --
MORGAN: So you think he's basically a nasty piece of work.
C. WINKLEVOSS: There's a lot of inner turmoil in the character in the movie, and sort of this wrestling with the behavior that he's doing and the consequences.
MORGAN: He hasn't any of that?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Absolutely not.
C. WINKLEVOSS: We haven't seen a single --
MORGAN: So we're talking about a kind of amoral machine that came along --
MORGAN: Relieves you of your idea and your money.
T. WINKLEVOSS: That's a -- that's kind of close to it. If you look at this conversations with friends about talking about what he's going to do and how he's going to lead us on, how we made a mistake to partner with him, it's pretty awful. And you know --
MORGAN: If I just sit back and listen to this, guys, I mean, you went to Harvard, one of the smartest business places you could ever be trained. In the end, you just got screwed by a smarter guy. Smarter guy in the room. Came along and, took you to the cleaners.
T. WINKLEVOSS: No --
MORGAN: Have you read to that?
T. WINKLEVOSS: First of all, we got screwed because we place trust and confidence in a partner. And there's nothing irrational or ignorant about doing that. That's how business is done. And if you can't reply on the law to protect your partnership, and put trust in people, then, you know, we're -- business is going to cease to exist.
MORGAN: What do you think of Eduardo?
T. WINKLEVOSS: In what --
MORGAN: Did he get screwed as well do you think or not?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well -- C. WINKLEVOSS: Absolutely. I mean there's no question. There's --
MORGAN: How much did he end up with?
T. WINKLEVOSS: We don't know.
C. WINKLEVOSS: No one knows.
MORGAN: I'm told it's like a huge amount of money.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Probably.
T. WINKLEVOSS: It's probably significant enough.
MORGAN: Like hundreds of millions of dollars.
T. WINKLEVOSS: I mean, let's put it this way. He's either can't talk about it or he feel like he's made a (INAUDIBLE).
MORGAN: I heard a vast sum of money. Again I say to you, I mean, how sorry are we supposed to feel for you guys?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, that's a different -- we shouldn't be conflated with Eduardo.
MORGAN: Are we supposed to be, oh you poor boys? Down to your last $60 million? I mean --
T. WINKLEVOSS: Eduardo and Mark, whatever they're working on was a property of the partnership that Mark entered into with us. So now what we're looking for is justice.
MORGAN: Are your feelings towards Eduardo that he's also --
T. WINKLEVOSS: He's a defendant in the original lawsuit. Absolutely.
MORGAN: You think he's a fake, Eduardo, as well.
C. WINKLEVOSS: He absolutely -- once he was aware of the fact that Mark Zuckerberg had appropriated our project and then continued to work on it for his gain, he was absolutely part of that.
T. WINKLEVOSS: And we know that he was aware. He -- Mark talked to him about Harvard Connection while he was working with us.
MORGAN: Do you use Facebook?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Yes.
T. WINKLEVOSS: We are.
MORGAN: So you're both active members of Facebook. T. WINKLEVOSS: Yes.
MORGAN: Quite ironic, isn't it?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Not as ironic if we weren't on it because again --
MORGAN: How do you work that out?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, we worked that out because the guys who -- who originated the idea would be -- you would think that would be the ones who would be able to take part in it.
MORGAN: Technically you're making Mark Zuckerberg richer by being on it. You're helping him.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, technically, we're using our idea. Look, if we're -- our dispute is with Mark Zuckerberg, the person.
C. WINKLEVOSS: It's not with the product.
T. WINKLEVOSS: It's not with the product. We love social network.
MORGAN: How many friends do you have?
T. WINKLEVOSS: It's north of 1,000.
MORGAN: Who's got more?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Tyler.
T. WINKLEVOSS: I think I do.
C. WINKLEVOSS: I think Tyler's got more.
MORGAN: Why is that?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Just more diligent at it.
MORGAN: Nicer guy?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Maybe.
MORGAN: Who gets more women?
T. WINKLEVOSS: That's a tough question.
MORGAN: One of you knows the answer. Come on.
T. WINKLEVOSS: I mean we're both pretty busy right now.
T. WINKLEVOSS: It's neck and neck.
MORGAN: I mean you've got millions and million of dollars from this idea that you say you were screwed out of. T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, actually --
MORGAN: You're good looking guys, you're successful athletes. I mean they must be cueing up, are they?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, but back to we got all of this money.
MORGAN: I'm trying to look at how bad your lives are. From where I'm sitting, I'm thinking, give me a piece of this nightmare. You know?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Piers, it's dangerous to make assumptions about anybody's life. I mean you have a great show --
MORGAN: You smiled your way through the last 20 minutes. Yes, you're physically super fit.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Well, I think we were talking -- I mean --
MORGAN: Women in my office were literally, you know, overheating with excitement with the thought of you in the building. I mean --
T. WINKLEVOSS: But it's all irrelevant to justice.
MORGAN: Is it?
T. WINKLEVOSS: It is.
C. WINKLEVOSS: See, Piers --
C. WINKLEVOSS: It's not a sort of -- the country is not set out as a no harm, no foul situation. You know, first of all, everything -- you know, the Harvard education, we worked for everything that we've gotten. And you know there's -- I think there's some misperception out there that we're part of some sort of old establishment.
I think there's ways people could read into the movie that, you know, these guys are sort of, you know --
T. WINKLEVOSS: Things came easy for them.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Things came easy.
T. WINKLEVOSS: They were blessed.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Oh, they made the Olympics.
T. WINKLEVOSS: It just happened. Like we had to work. We put ourselves in an environment where any --
MORGAN: Yes, but born with a pharaoh's stash of cash.
T. WINKLEVOSS: But what is it -- that has nothing to do with -- we put ourselves in an environment to me --
MORGAN: But you come from a quite privilege upbringing. Is that fair or not?
C. WINKLEVOSS: So basically our parents are self-made people. My great grandfather on my father's side was a coal miner from Pennsylvania. My grandfather on my mother's side was an NYPD detective. So basically the story of our family is any American story. It's self-made individuals and my parents were very much that way.
There's no question and we're not going to deny that we were certainly born with opportunity. But we've done everything in our power to sort of honor that opportunity, and to make sure that we -- you know, try and maximize ourselves as individuals and be productive people, be good people.
C. WINKLEVOSS: So --
MORGAN: When we come back, I'm going to ask you what you intend to do next.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Sure.
MORGAN: So what's next, chaps? What's the future going to hold for you?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Well, the immediate future is training for London 2012. And that's what we're doing right now.
MORGAN: And can you win there?
C. WINKLEVOSS: We're going to try. We're going to do our bet.
MORGAN: What do you do if Mark Zuckerberg suddenly pops up in a rival boat that's just a little bit better than yours?
T. WINKLEVOSS: As long as -- again as long as it's fair play --
MORGAN: Are you going to sue him?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Absolutely not. You know, look, we sued Mark because he broke the law. And we're still here because --
MORGAN: How often do you think about him a day?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Not -- I mean, I think we've done a very good job of compartmentalizing. I mean it's one aspect, it's one pursuit that we do. And we started out trying to create a Web site to connect people. And we never, in our wildest dreams, thought we'd be involved in a lawsuit. It's certainly not our choice but it's where we had to go after what he did.
MORGAN: It's not a bad career, though, is it?
C. WINKLEVOSS: I wouldn't call it a career.
MORGAN: Career in litigation against Mark Zuckerberg.
T. WINKLEVOSS: You know, I don't think --
C. WINKLEVOSS: The end goal. You know, I think in our situation it's really a pursuit of justice. And I think that we're certainly not the kind of guys who were going to sit by idly and just let him do that. Maybe other people might choose one way or the other. But from our perspective, the whole justice of this matter, it's really important for us. Because this was -- he wronged us.
MORGAN: How much money do you want?
T. WINKLEVOSS: What we want is a fair resolution.
MORGAN: Yes, but give me figure. How much do you want?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, it's not what we have now. It's not what we --
MORGAN: Give me a figure that will make you happy, what makes this go away. Mark Zuckerberg is watching and he probably is.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Right.
MORGAN: Look down the camera and give him a figure. How much to go away. I'm serious.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Certainly I think what we would like is --
MORGAN: $100 million?
T. WINKLEVOSS: A mediation where --
MORGAN: Two hundred?
T. WINKLEVOSS: We're not going to -- we're not going to answer that question.
MORGAN: Well, give me a ballpark.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Well, put it this way. In 2008, we entered into a mediation in good faith and we were ready to agree to a settlement and we are perfectly happy with that settlement until it later came out that he shortchanged us. So that is certainly a reasonable framework to work.
MORGAN: $65 million? T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, that's the number that was agreed -- that was a number that was agreed upon --
MORGAN: Why don't you just spit it out. Go on. How much do you want? I'm trying to resolve this.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Right.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Right.
T. WINKLEVOSS: But you have to get him in the room to talk about it.
MORGAN: Yes, there's going to come a point where it just gets boring. Nobody wants to hear from the Winklevoss about their money claims. No one wants to hear anymore about Mark and you think, how much?
T. WINKLEVOSS: We're reasonable people. What is fair from an expert standpoint with regards to our contribution, which is larger what we agreed to.
MORGAN: Give me -- $20 million either side ballpark.
T. WINKLEVOSS: I can't do that. You know we're getting ahead of ourselves here, because there --
MORGAN: No, really, what price principle? That's what I'm getting at.
T. WINKLEVOSS: We still haven't seen all of the evidence.
C. WINKLEVOSS: And we still haven't determined. I mean we --
MORGAN: But in your heads, you must have talked about it. You're twins, for goodness sake. There must be a moment where you go, OK, that's it, it's over.
T. WINKLEVOSS: I mean I think you can probably guess as well as we can what -- where we're going with that. It's not what it is today. And we haven't seen all the evidence. So we -- look, we've seen the leaked instant messages. There's a lot more out there. And they're just as damaging.
And when we have that laid out on the table, then we can make an educated guess, but at this point, it's just like throwing darts. And we --
MORGAN: If I invite Mark Zuckerberg on this show with you, would you come on?
C. WINKLEVOSS: Absolutely.
T. WINKLEVOSS: But he's not going to come on.
(CROSSTALK) C. WINKLEVOSS: You'll never get him on.
T. WINKLEVOSS: He will never talk about this stuff the way we're talking about it.
MORGAN: He said no once, but I'm a persistent middle thinker (ph).
C. WINKLEVOSS: He probably going to say no.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Well, I -- I'm not one to discourage you. And I would love to see one journalist have Mark Zuckerberg on one show and ask him a real question about --
MORGAN: What would the question be?
T. WINKLEVOSS: Did you write these leaked IMs? What did you mean by this? And you -- and you're sitting here telling you're friend that you're asking these guys to join Facebook, because they deserve something. Why have you been so stubborn for six years?
MORGAN: How are you going to feel if it wins the Oscar?
T. WINKLEVOSS: The movie? I'm going to be happy for it.
C. WINKLEVOSS: We definitely support the film. We think that the -- not only is it a great film in its own right, but I think it certainly is a truthful film and gets sort of the overarching themes across. But that being said, we don't confuse it for -- we don't confuse it as sort of our achievement. It's the achievement of the director, the actors, the screenwriter. .
T. WINKLEVOSS: It just so happened that we're portrayed in it. Sure, that's flattering. But --
MORGAN: Final question, do you have the public are on your side or on Mark Zuckerberg's?
T. WINKLEVOSS: I think the public doesn't know the complete story yet. I think that the people who are well informed and know the information are absolutely on our side. I think some people -- it's easy to see things out of context. Wow, that's a lot of money. Wow, you guys should be happy.
But when you look at it, nobody in this world who was in our position would act any differently than the way we've acted.
MORGAN: Cameron, Tyler, thank you very much.
T. WINKLEVOSS: Thank you.
C. WINKLEVOSS: Thank you.
MORGAN: We asked Facebook for comment on what the Winklevoss twins have just said and about their version of events. And I've invited Mark Zuckerberg to come on this show himself, but he said no. The offer, though, remains any time, should he, after seeing this, want to tell his side of the controversial on-going saga of the biggest phenomenon in social networking.
Coming up next, the story that Hollywood didn't tell in the blockbuster "The Blind Side." Michael Oher says there is more to him than you saw in the movie. He is here next.
MORGAN: Anybody who saw the blockbuster movie "The Blind Side" had to be impressed by Michael Oher's story. He went from homeless kid to multi-million dollar star for the Baltimore Ravens. But he says if all you know about him is what you saw in that movie, you don't know the real story at all. He has written a book called "I Beat the Odds." And he's here now.
MICHAEL OHER, AUTHOR, "I BEAT THE ODDS": Thanks for having me.
MORGAN: Tell me about this movie. Because when I watched this movie, I loved it. I loved Sandra Bullock. I thought the movie was great, inspiring, and I wanted to punch you in the end. But if I was Michael Oher, I was thinking, I cannot be as dumb as that guy seemed.
OHER: Oh man, you know, Hollywood -- you know, they have to do some things to make it interesting. But overall, it was a great movie. I have a little bit more personality than they showed in the movie, stuff like that. Overall, it was put together well and I was happy with it.
MORGAN: Were you happy with it? Be honest.
OHER: I was happy. Not every day where I'm from do people get a movie made about them. You know, so --
MORGAN: But you want it to be right. Immediately, I can tell you're nothing like that guy. The story might be, but you're not like him.
OHER: I'm not like him. But, you know, it showed different things. I'm a little bit different, but you've got to get to know me. And hopefully you'll be able to judge for yourself.
MORGAN: I want to play a little clip from the film, so that we can remind ourselves of your alter-ego.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your at left tackle on the weak side. The first play is simple.
Now, seditious means that you're going to block whoever is in front of you or on your inside shoulder, if you're not covered by a defender. Now, I'll be the running back and you show me what you're supposed to do. Ready hock. You'll block him, you'll hit him. Quarterback will hand it off. He gets the ball, and he takes off. Open lane to the end zone. That's all there is to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That's not true, is it?
OHER: No, it's not true. You know, I show that I needed help using ketchup bottle stuff like that. Football, I prided myself on sports. Growing up, that's all I really had. I had nothing else. So sports I took so much pride in. That kind of stung a little bit, but, like I said, Hollywood is Hollywood. I prided myself on sports. So that's -- that's all I had growing up.
MORGAN: Where do you think that you're different from that character that was portrayed in the film?
OHER: I'm -- you know, a better personality. You know, they had me a lot more shy than, you know, I really am. Stuff like that.
MORGAN: You don't convey to me an air of being too shy. Shy people don't have watches like that, Michael Oher. Do they?
OHER: I have to tell time. Need to be able to tell time, you know?
MORGAN: You say you beat the odds. How did you beat the odds?
OHER: You know, coming from where I came from, you know, the environment I was in, you know, being taken in by my family, the Tuohy family, that doesn't happen every day. It's kind of like a couple of weeks ago, everybody was trying to hit the lottery. It's one in a billion. I came so far. Be here, sitting here today, it's truly unbelievable.
MORGAN: What I loved about the book was the story when you talk about Michael Jordan being your hero. And you're seven years old, and you're watching the Chicago Bulls. And you're in a really rough place in your life and there seems no way out.
But you look at Jordan and you feel inspired to live a dream to become a sportsman. Tell me about that moment for you.
OHER: I think it was back in '93 -- 1993. I was watching the game and just taking him and just trying to get to that level. You know, obviously I'm not to where Michael Jordan is, but trying to get to some level where he was and just striving for the best. That's what got me here.
MORGAN: The Tuohys obviously did an amazing thing for you, but you kind of go quite some way in the book to say they weren't the only people. I mean, there were other people in your life that helped you get where you are. You yourself helped yourself get where you are. So how much do you think you owe the Tuohys?
OHER: I owe them quite a bit, because they didn't have to do what they did, taking somebody in to their family, you know, coming from where I came from. I don't know if I would have did that. That's a big thing, to let somebody into your home in Memphis.
You know, me, myself, I always had a strong drive inside to succeed and be the best that I can be. I owe a lot to them, though. But I also owe a lot to myself.
MORGAN: You think you would have made it anyway?
OHER: The road would have been a little bit tougher, but, you know, growing up, I always said that -- you know, since I was 13, I'm going to get out. It would have been harder.
I would have -- I didn't really have to be an athlete. I could have been, you know -- worked in fast food, been a janitor, anything. I would have had two or three jobs, working long hours, you know, to support myself and for my family in the future. I would have been successful.
MORGAN: So you had this kind of determination to be successful, whatever happened? You were not going to be sucked down by the system you were born into?
OHER: No, I was not going to be a cycle. The cycle growing up, going to school, dropping out, being a product of my environment. I wasn't going to be a part of that cycle. I think that's what helped me get to this point.
MORGAN: What percentage of kids that you grew up with got out?
OHER: Right now, I'm the only one. I'm the only one that I know of who graduated and just got out of the environment. Everybody else, you know, I know is still back at home, you know, part of the cycle.
MORGAN: If you were telling me how tough it's been, what were the toughest moments for you?
OHER: You know, like you say, you never understand it fully. You probably say oh, it couldn't have been that bad or it's not that tough really. You have to go through it. You're not going to understand the kid unless you go through it. You'll have an idea if you want to have an idea.
But I remember, you know, going back when I was seven years old, and the police coming and taking, you know, my brothers and sisters away from us. And me and my older brothers, you know, we ran -- we had to leave our younger siblings because they couldn't keep up. Even at seven, I was old enough to, you know, take off and run and dodge the police.
You know, even selling newspapers, you know, on the street corner, I was getting robbed. All this stuff helped me get to this point, and, you know, make me a better person, and make me, you know, the man I am today.
MORGAN: When we come back after the break, I want to get right into your background from this Memphis ghetto, how you got out. That seems to be a key to Michael Oher.
MORGAN: Back now with Michael Oher, the inspiration for the movie "The Blind Side." Michael, I want to read you a quote from Sean Tuohy. He said of you that your gift is that the good lord gave you the ability to forget. Is that true?
OHER: You know, some things you have to force yourself to, you know, put behind you in order to move on. You know? But you can forgive, but it's still there. And, you know, you still know what went on.
But, you know, those thoughts, you know, they -- they -- you know, they wind up back in your head a lot of the times.
MORGAN: When you wrote the book, you must have had to relive some pretty awful stuff. I found one excerpt which I found just hair raising. You said if you saw big cars roll up with the leaders of gangs inside, you would scramble to get inside the house because you didn't want to risk getting caught in the cross hairs. "I clearly remember on time watching a baby get shot in the midst of an argument."
OHER: I mean, that's the way it is.
MORGAN: The baby was killed?
OHER: If I remember, I don't think so.
MORGAN: Tell me about the relationship with your real mother. Do you talk to her anymore?
OHER: You know, the relationships -- you know, it's not like it used to be. But, you know, she loved all her kids, you know, while we were growing up. Hopefully in the future, you know, it'll be where it once was. She's trying to do her best to get on track. And hopefully, you know, we'll have the type of bond that we once had.
MORGAN: You were the sixth of 12 children that she had. She had a well documented drug problem. Do you think that was the root of all the problems for her?
OHER: You know, I -- she was a product of her environment. When she was growing up, maybe that's when everything started to hit. Some people can't do anything about it. But I do know that she loved us deep down inside. She just couldn't help the things she was doing.
MORGAN: What do you think she thinks of your success now?
OHER: I really don't know. I'm pretty sure she's probably proud and happy for me and just want the best.
MORGAN: But she hasn't told you that?
OHER: I never heard it from her. But I know how she once felt. Those are the memories I have, you know, the good times, you know, her being on the right path for a good amount of time. Stuff like that.
MORGAN: What do you think was that caused that relationship to break down? Why did you stop talking?
OHER: You know, after you try to help a person for so long, you know, they have to want to help them self. You know, you beg and plead and you cry -- you know, you do all this type of stuff. But at the end of the day, a person has to help their self.
You don't want to give up on anybody. You pray. You pray all the time. And hopefully that works. But after you try for so long, a person has to want to help themselves.
MORGAN: You say in the book that Mrs. Tuohy was the first person to ever say I love you in your life. Do you remember the first time you heard those words?
OHER: No, she said it a number of times before I finally told her "I love you" back. I just couldn't get used to it at first. I never heard it. Like I said, I knew my family loved me, you know, but we never heard that. We were too busy trying to survive and help ourselves. So we really never had time for it.
But once you start to hear stuff like that, you start to believe it.
MORGAN: Have you become a more emotional guy, do you think, since all the coverage of the movie and having to deal with all the stuff in your book? Have you been able to open up? Or do you find it hard?
OHER: It will always be hard for me. Knowing what I've been through, knowing what I've seen -- you know, I'll try. When I have my kids, I'll try to do a better job of opening up and sharing things with them, you know, showing them what it's really like.
MORGAN: I presume you've seen the whole movie? You went to see it?
OHER: Yeah, I saw the movie.
MORGAN: What was that like, weird?
OHER: You know, yeah, in a fact, because people don't have a movie made about them every day. So it was unbelievable. But I enjoyed it, though.
MORGAN: Sandra Bullock plays your mother in the movie.
MORGAN: You don't get that every day, do you?
OHER: That's zero out of a billion. That doesn't happen.
MORGAN: Have you met Sandra?
OHER: I haven't met any of them. During the -- when everything was happening, I was focused on my first season in the NFL and just really staying focused, and, you know, just trying to win games.
MORGAN: I'll bet Mrs. Tuohy quite liked the fact that Sandra Bullock was playing her. Did she?
OHER: She loved it.
MORGAN: That's got to be a dream come true, isn't it?
OHER: She's starting to take on the personality in the movie, actually. But she really loved it.
MORGAN: Has it damaged your relationship with the Tuohys at all, the attention, the movie, the books, and everything?
OHER: Not at all. They just -- they watched something I did and they sent me a text message. And, you know, we talk all the time. And we still have the same bond. Nothing has changed.
MORGAN: What would be your message to any young kids in a ghetto, a project like you came from? What would you say to them to try and achieve what you've achieved?
OHER: You know, I just want to send a message out that you don't have to be saved by a wealthy white family. You don't -- like everybody was trying to hit the lottery. You don't need this stuff to save you. You can do it on your own. It is possible. All you have to do is believe and get -- come across the right people and find that confidence.
MORGAN: Finally, what's your view of Michael Vick and his redemption?
Michael Vick, he obviously went through a horrendous time. He's had an extraordinary comeback. President Obama said everyone is entitled to a second chance. What did you think when you heard that? Did you agree with it?
OHER: That everybody's entitled to a second chance? Without a doubt. People mess up all the time. Michael Vick, he made some mistakes. He surrounded himself around the wrong people. And you've got to be careful with that.
But he's redeemed himself and came back. He's doing so much to help the kids. And if you give somebody a second chance, look what happens. The guy came back and had an unbelievable season. That's all it takes, is somebody to give a second chance. Just like the Tuohys, they gave me a second chance.
MORGAN: You still want to beat him, right?
OHER: I play him. Once you get on the field, nothing is attached.
MORGAN: Michael, it's been a pleasure. OHER: Thanks for having me.
MORGAN: Nice to meet the real Michael Oher.
OHER: Thanks for having me. I try to try.
MORGAN: You did. Coming up, I want you to get involved in my show. I'll tell you how you can ask the questions the next PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
MORGAN: Donald Trump is the quintessential American businessman. He never lets anything stand in the way of a great deal. He's married a succession of beautiful women. And he made him his first "Celebrity Apprentice." So clearly something of a genius.
But what's next for the Donald? The White House? I'll ask him tomorrow on a special live PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT with our first ever studio audience.
I want to hear from you. Send me your questions on Twitter, @PiersMorgan, and on Facebook, Facebook.com/PiersTonight. On Thursday, Colin Firth, Geoffrey Rush and Helena Bonham Carter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: As the rose between two thorns in this particular interview, what were they like, these two, to work for, these two heavily egoed movie stars?
HELENA BANHAM CARTER, ACTRESS: Well, they talk a lot. They talk a lot, both of them. It was obviously a bromance. I thought I could let them get on with it. It was only when Geoffrey left that Colin actually noticed me.
COLIN FIRTH, ACTOR: You wouldn't notice her, would you? Just look there.
FIRTH: We adored you. You were absolutely bang in the middle of the love triangle with Tom, Geoffrey and me. We were embracing you.
CARTER: It was a threesome, was it? You see -- now you tell me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Yes, it's the royal family of acting, the cast of the "King's Speech," Thursday night at 9:00 Eastern.
Now here's my colleague Anderson Cooper with "AC 360."