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Sparks Fly at Casey Anthony Hearing; Sweat Lodge Witness Testifies

Aired March 2, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, earth-shattering new testimony in the Casey Anthony hearings. Casey breaks down in tears as her mom takes the stand, and gets testy with prosecutors over what happened when little Caylee went missing. Mind-boggling new details. Tears, heated moments, and what made Casey laugh out loud. You don`t want to miss this.

And a knock-down-drag-out battle over what killed three people in an Arizona sweat lodge. Prosecutors trying to hang celebrity self-help guru James Ray with his own words: "You`ll feel like you`re going to die. I guarantee that." Is the defense now claiming rat poison killed the victims and not the heat? Who will the jury believe?

Also, fast-breaking new details on the execution of a dad at an Atlanta daycare. Did the suspect gun down his victims to steal his wife? Cops now say the dead man`s wife and the suspect were in continuous communication before and after the carnage. Was she involved in this monstrous plot? Or did the vicious killer act alone?

Plus, self-proclaimed winner Charlie Sheen finally loses his kids. His estranged wife, Brooke, yanks the kids out of his house with a restraining order, as she drops bombshell charges of physical abuse against her. Now reports that Charlie`s desperately looking for his twins. Is this act three in the train wreck?

ISSUES starts now.



CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Are you asking me a question?


CINDY ANTHONY: What is the question? I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question is, when you called the police, they show up in response to your emergency 911 call, is it not your expectation -- that`s the question part...

CINDY ANTHONY: OK. I`m sorry. I`m sorry. This is very difficult for me.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, high drama as sparks fly during a critical hearing in the Casey Anthony murder case. It was a marathon day for Casey. She cried and she laughed in court.

It was also an agonizing day for her parents, Cindy and George, who were in the hot seat. And that means the witness stand.

Things got very, very heated when prosecutors cross-examined Cindy and George about the crucial day, July 15, 2008, that they called cops to report that their precious granddaughter, Caylee Marie Anthony, had been missing for a month. Here is Cindy talking about how she says cops treated Casey, her daughter, once cops arrived at the Anthony home. Listen.


CINDY ANTHONY: He sequestered her into a back bedroom and began to ask her questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know how long a period of time he questioned her in the back bedroom?

CINDY ANTHONY: At least an hour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you describe Mr. Mellich`s (ph) tone of voice?

CINDY ANTHONY: He began, you know, in a normal tone of voice, but at times he did get kind of intimidating, I would say, or demanding of her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what`s the big deal here? Well, I`ll tell you. Cops allegedly initially failed to read Casey her Miranda rights, and so the defense wants all the incriminating things she said thrown out.

Meantime, her dad, George, gets a serious scolding from the judge after talking at the same time as a prosecutor, and you could cut the tension between Jose Baez and the prosecutors with a knife. The state would like to hold Baez in contempt of court.

What do you think about all of this? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to the one and only Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV.

Jean, what a day. What incriminating things did Casey tell cops in those crucial early stages when they first questioned her about her daughter being missing? And could those incriminating admissions be kept from the jurors?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": They sure could. And this is very important to the prosecution`s chase. No. 1, she said that Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez, the baby-sitter, is who actually took Caylee; she kidnapped her, that she left her at the Sawgrass Apartments, and that`s the last time she saw her. That`s one thing she said.

No. 2, she said, "I left my baby there because I went to work. I work at Universal Studios." That also wasn`t true.

Those are examples, Jane, of things that the jury may not hear if the judge rules in the favor of the defense after this hearing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is a huge, huge development. Cindy Anthony put on a tough front today, but she also showed her tender side. Listen to this.


CINDY ANTHONY: I just remember, when they placed the cuffs on her, that I started to cry, and I put my head into my husband`s chest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the deputy have to handcuff her to take her out to a patrol car?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see her being placed in a patrol car?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was she still handcuffed at that time?

CINDY ANTHONY: I would believe so.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Superstar defense lawyer Linda Kenney Baden joins us tonight. We`re delighted to have her. Now, she had joined Casey`s team early on but stepped down reportedly because of financial issues last fall.

Linda, great to see you.

LINDA KENNEY BADEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Hi, Jane. Great to see you. I`m great to be here in this capacity to bring some defense common sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, we`re fair here on ISSUES.

BADEN: That`s why I`m here, Jane, because you are. But you know what? I thought today was a fascinating day, you know. I wasn`t in when it came to participating in the deposition or the hearings, but I heard them say, "Wow, somebody lies and gives a story. It`s curious. It`s interesting. It`s odd. But it`s not something I would consider somebody a suspect or suspicious."

I mean, that was like Eddie Murphy in the movie dealing with "Beverly Hills Cop." It doesn`t pass the smell test. Come on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a minute. Linda, let me ask you this question: how long did they talk to Casey without reading her Miranda rights? And could they really throw out all that incriminating stuff? When she takes them to the Sawgrass Apartments, they still had not -- that`s where she claims she had left the little girl with Zanny then, a baby-sitter that cops believe doesn`t even exist. Could that really be thrown out? Could that really be thrown out?

BADEN: Think of it. Hours upon hours, we could come back tomorrow morning, and they would still have a time to question her. And you know, if you go to a cop lecture, he`ll tell you, if you haven`t heard this, custody, interrogation, Miranda. That`s like the handcuffs. I mean, it`s absolutely ridiculous.

Even when that was said to her, "Is everything here you told me the truth? It`s not, is it?" Well, that means he doesn`t believe her. She`s been a suspect, at least on lying to the cops. You have to give her her Miranda rights. You can`t go around it. And if you go around and this judge finds that this was OK, then we`re just all lying to ourselves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, but, please, Leonard Papilla, first of all, the cops say when they got there, they were treating her as a victim, someone who had lost their child, someone whose child had been kidnapped. So they say they didn`t read her the Miranda rights, because they didn`t realize that she had anything to do with it. They thought she was looking for her missing baby.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: They`re flat-out lying. They know exactly why they were there. They were looking for a missing baby. If you go back to the nine -- 911 calls from Cindy, that was the purpose of them being at the residence. She threw the line in there that she thought somebody dead in the front of the car. There`s no cop going to go to a residence with those statements at 911 and simply not think that the person they were being talked to about is not somehow a suspect. They screwed up, and they know they screwed up, and Baez caught them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, this is -- this is huge. I mean, this is huge. We can`t -- if the jury can`t hear that Casey Anthony said, well, Zanny the nanny, who a lot of people think doesn`t exist. Nobody`s ever found hide nor hair of her.

PADILLA: I found her. I found her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes, you found her. Oh, yes. Tell me about that.

PADILLA: I found her. I`ve talked to her over a dozen times.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you talking about the lady who`s suing because her life was ruined because she happens to have the same name. That lady has nothing to do with that case.

PADILLA: That`s correct. I know that. Absolutely nothing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The real -- the real Zanny the nanny that she`s pointing out, this lady is not Zanny the nanny. The cops say there is no Zanny the nanny. This woman just happened to have the same name and said, "Oh, just by the way, you ruined my life, because you pointed to a fictitious person that happens to share my name." But I just do not understand that -- that all this could be thrown out. I mean...

BADEN: Jane, can I...


BADEN: There was another important part that everyone passed over today. Remember that jail tape when she was in jail and the child missing was found, and the prosecution wanted to get it in? Remember that? Well, the judge, the prosecution today stipulated they`re not going to use that tape. That was a huge win. And I`m proud of that, because I wrote the brief on that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now we`re -- you`re -- you`ve given us a Ph.D. course. We`re undergraduate school at this point.

OK. Julie, Kentucky, your question or thought?

CALLER: Well, my comment is in regards to the detective. I think they should have read her her rights, No. 1. No. 2 is when the detective was at the home, I believe George Anthony said that he smelled something in the car. Why did the detectives not look when he was there then?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jean Casarez, take it away.

CASAREZ: We heard that testimony today. Yuri Melich, the detective that was on the scene, lead detective, said George had come to him and said, "No, that car smells human. There`s something dead in that car, has been in that car." He said that he didn`t investigate it at that point, because this was a missing persons case. He was trying to find the little girl.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean, could this stuff really be thrown out? I just find it hard to believe they could gut the entire...

CASAREZ: Listen, here`s one thought, Jane. Here`s one thought, OK? Here`s how it -- how it happened. Casey`s at home. The detectives come initially. She originally writes a statement on the kitchen table.

After that she is handcuffed for three to four minutes. All right? Then she`s driven around and all that stuff. She`s returned home to sleep with her family. The next day they comes back. She goes to Universal. The judge could split the baby and allow some things in and some things out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. When we say Universal, we`re talking about how she claimed she worked at Universal Studios, and led cops all around Universal Studios, and she didn`t work there. She was lying.

All right. More on the Casey Anthony case in just a bit, and we`re talking more of your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Later, the sweat lodge defense team firing back. They claim the three people who died. You`re going to see George is also testy on the stand.

Hang in there.


CINDY ANTHONY: I just remember when they placed the cuffs on her that I started to cry, and I put my head into my husband`s chest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the deputy after handcuffing her take her out to a patrol car?





UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The more officers the better?

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Right. Amber Alert, you name it, that sort of thing done. And it wasn`t. That`s a sore subject between you, too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me. I`m going to object.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to the question.

ANTHONY: You opened the door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, be quiet. Question, then answer. Don`t talk over each other.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: My big issue tonight: Casey Anthony`s family fighting back. We`re talking George; we`re talking Cindy; and we`re talking Casey, who shed tears. They all seemed to be banding together as a unit to give the prosecution as tough a time as possible. You saw the judge there actually scolding George, saying, "Hey, top stalking over the prosecution."

Now, I can understand what George is going there. This guy has been through hell. He didn`t do anything to anybody. It`s got to be hellish for these parents to go through this, but it`s just the beginning.

Linda Kenney Baden, I understand that there`s a good possibility that George and Cindy might not be able to attend their daughter`s trial, because as witnesses, they`re not going to be allowed in so that their testimony is not influenced by the testimony of other people on the stand. Is that true?

BADEN: That`s a good possibility. It happens in all the trials. You know what`s tragic? I think, having represented Casey and her parents, is that she can`t see her parents at the jail. She -- I mean, this is the first time she really sees them. She sees her mother. You saw her cry.

And you learn -- you know, we should be a little angry about something, Jane. You want to know what that is?


BADEN: We learned today for the first time, at least I learned, that -- that these conversations at the jail are not taped unless the police request them to be taped and videoed.


BADEN: And that`s the reason why she couldn`t see her daughter all -- this whole year and a half, because every time, it went out to the media, it was like parsing every word. We should be angry about that.


BADEN: If it`s not done for everybody, it shouldn`t be done for everybody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not angry about it. I think it should be done to everybody all across the United States, because we learn so much about the cuckoo minds of people who get in trouble with the law. Now...

BADEN: Be fair, then. Do it for everyone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I say include everyone; you`re absolutely right. We see here is Casey crying, right? Well, now there`s the other side of Casey. We also saw Casey actually laughing today in court. So she`s crying, and then she`s laughing next minute. Check this out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve told us, indeed, about the handcuffing. You`re a strapping young man, ex-Marine, aren`t you?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much do you weigh?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t be embarrassed. Wait until you get to my age. You can find it worse than that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there she is laughing. And she can not -- she`s trying not to grin and laugh, but she can`t stop herself. And Leonard Papilla, that`s when you see the mischievousness of Casey Anthony. She has two different sides.

PADILLA: Yes, shall does. And what she`s thinking in the back of her mind is her ex-boyfriend, who`s a Marine also, had about that same physique. And I`ll bet you that she was thinking, "Ah, that`s my boyfriend`s measurements also."

Casey is a funny young lady. Absolutely. The night of the 27th, I think, when her car quit running, the last phone calls went to her ex- boyfriend, a Marine, who was out here in California at the time. In fact, it was the FBI interviewed him on several occasions about those phone calls, because she was trying to say that the baby was his.

So there`s a lot of things that are still not being brought forward in this investigation.

Now, as far as the cops having the recordings, they request the recordings. They also have another thing they do. They request the jail to contact them when her attorney goes and visits her. That`s never come out either. So those are things that are starting to come out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Terry, Michigan, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Hi, Jane.


CALLER: Jane, I`ve been following this on your show and on "NANCY GRACE" from the very beginning.


CALLER: And it just seems to me, and I`m not a young thing. And I`m a grandma; I`m an old lady. But it just seems to me that Casey has never - - I mean, she`s flaky. She`s a kid. She`s done a lot of stupid lying and stuff, but they`ve never looked for anyone else. They`ve only looked at her. They`ve only pointed at her. All the -- all the evidence is purely circumstantial, and I think that they`ve nailed her, and she`s it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me just say this. I want to be fair in this case, but I don`t think the evidence is purely circumstantial.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, there is the car, and there is the smell of death in the car. And there are tests that were done on the trunk of the car. Tell us about that.

CASAREZ: Right, and we don`t know if that`s coming in yet, because we haven`t had the forensic hearings yet. It is a circumstantial case. Is there any evidence directly linking Casey to the murder of Caylee? No, there`s not, but circumstantially, there`s a lot of evidence that the prosecution will put forward, building block by building block. Will it be enough? We`ll see.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what about the chloroform issue? Briefly, 20 seconds.

CASAREZ: Chloroform. Chloroform was found in the car. We don`t know how much, but it was linked to Casey, decomposition, death. The question is, is it medical science or is it junk science? Will the jury even hear about it?

PADILLA: She was looking it up on the computer.

BADEN: That`s going to be highly disputed; highly disputed, Jane. Highly, highly disputed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The defense -- the defense is saying, "Oh, it`s not real science."

The prosecution is saying, "Prove it. Prove it if you think it`s not real science."

BADEN: The defense doesn`t have to prove it. The defense doesn`t have to prove it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Please come back, Linda Kennedy Baden.

BADEN: I will. Thank you, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We love you, as well as the man with the hat and Jean Casarez.

All right. Coming up, we`re talking shocking new details on the Atlanta daycare execution. Were the suspect and the victim`s wife having some sort of affair?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you have participated in Mr. Ray`s sweat lodge ceremony if you thought there was a possibility that people would die?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you believe it was going to be dangerous?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: That woman was inside the sweltering Arizona sweat lodge where three people died. Tonight she describes that nightmarish day as famous self-help guru James Ray stands trial for manslaughter and the defense offers a new theory about why those people died.

James Ray, charged with the death of Kirby Brown, James Shore and Liz Neuman. They died after taking part in a sweat lodge ceremony back in October of 2009.

Melissa Phillips was one of Ray`s so-called spiritual warriors. And after the sweat lodge death, she told cops that James Ray told everybody, you have to, quote, "surrender to death to survive it." Oh, really? It didn`t turn out that way.

Straight out to our Gary Tuchman.

Gary, this Melissa Phillips is a prosecution witness. But did she hit a home run for the prosecution? Or as a former devout follower, did she seem a little conflicted about the whole thing?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A very big victory so far for the prosecution. She`s still on the stand, done for the day. She will continue for the prosecution tomorrow. But she made it very clear that they went into that sweat lodge, it was unbelievably hot and bearable and she started screaming when Kirby Brown started collapsing, looked like she was going to faint: "Stop, stop." Kirby Brown is one of the three people who died.

And this is the problem. No matter what the jury ends up saying, James Ray could have saved these people`s lives if he stopped the sweat lodge ceremony when people started fainting, when people started falling into the fire pit, when Kirby Brown started fainting, when this woman, this witness started yelling, and he continued with the ceremony. So no matter what the jury says when this is over, James Ray could have prevented these deaths.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, this sweat lodge participant, Melissa Phillips, who was on the stand today, said James Ray bragged about what made his sweat lodge different than traditional Native-American sweat lodges. Listen to this briefly.


PHILLIPS: He told us that other people said that his was hotter than the Native-American sweat lodges.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So apparently, Gary, she told the court instead of using the usual ten rocks, that James Ray was going to start with 12. Wouldn`t that automatically make it hotter than it should be?

TUCHMAN: Well, there`s no question it was hotter than anyone expected and hotter than a traditional Native-American sweat lodge.

Jane, I went in a Native-American sweat lodge a few days after this happened in October 2009. It was unbelievably hot, completely dark and claustrophobic, but the Native Americans who ran it said, "If you`re the least bit uncomfortable, please leave. We encourage you to leave."

That`s not what James Ray did. James Ray said, quote, before this happened, before everyone went into sweat lodges, a recording they played in court during the prosecution opening statements. He said, quote, "You will feel like you`re going to die. I guarantee that." And indeed, three people did die.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m going into a traditional sweat lodge this weekend to try it out. And if you`re watching, guys, ten rocks, please. Not any more than that.

What about this rat poison defense, briefly?

TUCHMAN: Yes, what the defense is saying, basically, is don`t be so sure that it`s heatstroke that killed these people. Perhaps there was some rat poison in the soil. Perhaps there was something wrong with the tent.

But the prosecution is saying these people died of heat stroke. These people have died because James Ray did not end the ceremony when he saw that people were getting sick and collapsing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. You`d have to wonder, though, because rat poison, wouldn`t it affect everybody? And wouldn`t it show up on the toxicology reports? So I think that`s going to be a big issue at trial. It actually could box them in a little bit if they stick to that, because if that`s disproved, that could be a problem.

Gary, thank you so much for joining us tonight. I hope you come back as this trial progresses. Great to have you here.

Fast-breaking developments in the deadly Atlanta daycare shooting. Did the victim meet the suspect for lunch before his death? This is an unbelievable case. You will not believe what the wife of the victim...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fast-breaking new details on the execution of a dad at an Atlanta day care. Did the suspect gun down his victim to steal his wife? Cops now say the dead man`s wife and the suspect were in continuous communication before and after the carnage. Was she involved in this plot? Or did the vicious killer act alone?

Plus self-proclaimed winner Charlie Sheen finally loses -- his kids. His estranged wife Brooke yanks the kids out of his house with a restraining order as she drops bombshell charges of physical abuse against her. Now reports that Charlie is desperately looking for his twins. Is this Act 3 in the train wreck?


STEVE SNEIDERMAN, VICTIM`S BROTHER: I`m here today to speak for my brother who can`t speak anymore. Help us to find the killer. Our family will be forever grateful.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight mind-blowing new developments in the murder of an Atlanta dad shot right outside his son`s day care. Court documents reveal the victim`s wife had, quote, "continuous communication with the suspected killer before and after the shooting".

We`re also learning the victim, Rusty Sneiderman, was helping the suspect find a new job in the months before his murder. Rusty had just dropped off his 2-year-old son on November 18th when a gunman walked up and opened fire, executing him. It had all hallmarks of a professional hit job.


CHIEF BILLY GROGAN, DUNWOODY, GEORGIA POLICE DEPT: This case appears to be a cold and calculated murder. It does not appear to be random in nature. The victim was shot multiple times at what appears to be point blank range.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Two months later police arrested Hemy Neuman -- you see him right there in the orange. Here`s the key. This suspect is the former boss of the victim`s wife Andrea. Let me repeat that for emphasis. The suspect you`re seeing here once supervised Andrea, the wife of the man he`s accused of killing.

Affiliate WSB obtained an e-mail Hemy allegedly sent Andrea three months before the shooting. He wrote about the difficulties of parenting and closed with this line, quote, "Good night, mon amie, and thanks for the inspiration," end quote.

Now could these two possibly have been having an affair? Let`s make it clear. Andrea Sneiderman has not been named a suspect. We have no idea what the relationship between these two is. She could be somebody who is completely, absolutely unaware that this man, for example, might have a fixation on her. But this certainly does have the classic love triangle gone wrong feel to it.

I want to know personally why investigators waited so long to dig into Andrea and Hemy`s e-mails and phone records. You don`t have to watch CSI to figure out their relationship, whatever the heck it was, was going to be the key to the case.

Straight out to Veronica Waters, reporter for WSB Radio in Atlanta; Veronica, what is the very latest? And when did cops finally go in with their court documents to get the information, these e-mails that are so crucial

VERONICA WATERS, REPORTER, WSB RADIO: It happened almost a week ago, on February 24th, when the lead investigator on the case, who works in the Dekalb County district attorney`s office, which is handling the investigation, went to the judge with sworn affidavits looking for copies of e-mails and cell phones, records and text messages that might have been exchanged between Rusty Sneiderman`s widow, Andrea Sneiderman, and Hemy Neuman, the suspect.

They say that there was near constant communication, as you pointed out, between September 1st of last year and January 15th of this year. Keep in mind Rusty Sneiderman was shot to death last November.

Now investigators --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to stop you there one second. He was shot to death last November and last week, you`re saying, the cops went in with the court documents to get the e-mails between the suspect and the victim`s wife, even though they knew almost hours before, hours after the shooting that there was some connection?

How long was it before they found out that the person that they suspected once supervised the wife of the victim?

WATERS: You know I`m not sure when police discovered that. I would imagine that that was something that was known pretty quickly because the families sort of know each other. We`ve seen evidence that Hemy Neuman and Rusty Sneiderman were actually e-mailing each other last August.

So I`m sure that police knew this very quickly but obviously there must be something going on that is making police say let`s look a little more closely at the communication between these two. The search warrants do say they are looking for evidence of premeditation or any kind of collaboration that may indicate that the two of them worked together.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Here`s my big issue. Aren`t e-mails and phone records the first place you look? When we first heard here at ISSUES that a beloved Ivy League suburban dad had been gunned down, our first thought was, I wonder if there`s usually some, either love or money, it usually comes down to one of those two, usually. Right? Maybe they should dig through the family`s e-mails.

Then we found out the victim`s wife former boss was charged and we thought, hmm, very interesting. That was way back in January.

Mike Brooks, HLN legal analyst, why were search warrants for phone and e-mail records just filed last week?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, that`s a good question. It says to me as a former investigator, Jane, and knowing that scene there very well, where you have two banks, the United States Post Office and lots of surveillance cameras, they probably had a pretty tight case. But why initially, if you`re going to serve a search warrant, why initially don`t you get these things?

As an investigator, that`s one of the first things, to see, ok, who are the closest people to the victim? And who`s the closest people to their main suspect? Who would that be? Andrea Sneiderman. I`m with you on this one.

DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hang on a second, Mike. Hang on one second, you know, as a law enforcement expert, that you don`t just get warrants because you want them or because these families are entangled. You have this little hurdle to get over about probable cause --

MIKE: Darren --

KAVINOKY: -- and so that might have been the reason for the delay.

MIKE: -- who`s the closest to these people, Darren? Look, counselor, I know you`re a great attorney, I have a lot of respect for you, but who`s the closest to these people?


KAVINOKY: Hey, it`s a great hunch.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, it`s funny you mention that, Darren Kavinoky? Because it leads me to my question: Were Andrea and Hemy possibly having an affair right under Rusty`s nose?

We have no idea, but reports do claim that Andrea and Hemy took business trips together when they both worked at GE. And one of their itineraries in Europe reportedly included a castle tour, a dinner cruise and a musical. It doesn`t sound all business to me.

A few weeks ago --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second, Andrea made her first public statement about her husband, Rusty`s murder. She said, "I was thankful and relieved when the police made an arrest, but I was shocked to learn that the man charged with the murder was my former boss, a person we thought was a friend of our family. I have been assured by the Dekalb County DA`s office that Mr. Neuman is Rusty`s killer."

In light of the latest development, I`ve got to say that statement boggles my mind that she`s issuing this. It sounds -- honestly it sounds a tad fishy. That being said, let me say this, she`s not considered a suspect or a person of interest. We called her attorneys. They did not get back to us, but she`s reportedly cooperating with authorities. And she is or her attorneys are invited on the show anytime -- anytime at all -- to tell their side of the story.

Now, you can go ahead, Darren.

KAVINOKY: Well, Jane, look, there`s no shortage of people demonstrating poor judgment in all of their affairs. But really -- and I use affairs in the general sense of the word. But look, if she did have something to do with this, if this was a love triangle and she played a role in conspiring and furthering her husband`s death, then obviously the police are on to it, the gig is up.

But it is very, very, possible -- as you`ve already pointed out -- that she`s a victim in this thing, too. That this thing happened for reasons totally unrelated to anything that she did -- and ultimately we`re going to get to the bottom of this.


BROOKS: This could just be investigators going ahead and dotting the i`s and crossing the t`s to make sure they`ve done a thorough investigation by eliminating her having anything to do with this. But then again, you have to look at every -- you have to look at every piece of evidence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And a lot of times women are the suspect (ph) of fixations with the men who work with them, and they have no idea, they think it`s innocent friendship. I think it`s happened to all of us girls at one time or another and the guys have another idea.

Veronica, you were trying to get in there.

WATERS: I was just wondering, how much attention -- as Mike probably thinks it is -- how much attention do police officers actually pay to scuttlebutt in the neighborhood? Because while the official line is that this was nothing but a business relationship between Andrea Sneiderman and Hemy Neuman, there has been scuttlebutt that the two were messing around, so to speak. I mean how much attention do police pay to these rumors? And could that have been behind the search warrants?

BROOKS: It could very well be because that`s the whole thing -- as I was saying -- you want to eliminate anybody who is closest to the victim and to the main suspect in this particular case and that would be Andrea Sneiderman. So, yes, this is something you have to look into as an investigator to say, ok is she involved, is she not involved?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: As we wrap up, cops say that they determined that the suspect rented a minivan, and they say inside the minivan was synthetic hair they think came from the fake beard that the suspect was wearing when he allegedly killed the victim the man. And that is (INAUDIBLE) van there.

Thank you fantastic panel.

Up next Charlie Sheen`s winning streak -- over. Well, at least in one sense. His estranged wife Brooke has yanked his kids out of his house and filed a restraining order. You will not believe the threats he allegedly made against her.



CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: Well, I used to. I`ve got to be careful, because there`s lawsuits and whatever going on.

MORGAN: Until you stopped, you were taking a lot of cocaine.

SHEEN: I`m not taking it, I mean I had to pay for it. Come on.




SHEEN: Bob, max, it`s your dada. I`ve never lied to you, and this is another example of that. I will see you soon, you`re in my heart, and I love you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight Charlie Sheen may be in his own words "winning", but guess what; he just lost custody his two sons. Charlie`s twin sons, Max and Bob were taken from him -- taken away after Charlie`s ex-wife Brooke Mueller claimed she fears for their safety.

Take a look at this very dramatic scene from


SHEEN: You have to go -- are you going to share that apple with your brother?



SHEEN: We`ll see you soon, buddy. We`ll see you soon, absolutely. We`ll see you soon, you have my word. Pop don`t lie.

Here, hold on, give me that apple. There we go.


SHEEN: I know.



I`m ok, buddy. Thank you.

Tiger blood now drips from my fangs.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Boy, that`s a sad scene. Look at those two little kids. Wow, they`re going to have to remember that as adults one day. Charlie`s angry ex filed a restraining order against the actor claiming he physically abused her. Brooke is claiming in court papers that Charlie threatened her, quote, "I`ll chop your head and send it to your mom in a box," and threatened to poke her eyes out with a penknife. Now Charlie`s been tearing up the airwaves as we all know and spewing some ridiculous quotes in the past few days.

Listen to this gem from ABC.


ANDREA CANNING, ABC NEWS HOST: All these radio rants have people thinking Charlie Sheen has got to be on drugs again.

SHEEN: Sure, yes. I am on a drug. It`s called Charlie Sheen. It`s not available, because if you try it once, you will die, your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body -- too much.

Yes, no, it`s just -- again I woke up and decided you know, you`ve been kicked around, I`ve been criticized, I`ve been like the oh, shucks guy with like this bitching rock star life, and I`m just finally going to completely embrace it, wrap both arms around it and love it violently and defend it violently through violent hatred.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is this actor finally totally unhinged, do you think? Are either of these parents fit to care for this adorable twin boys.

Straight out to Amber Goodhand, reporter with; Amber, RadarOnline was right there -- as you see with the video -- when all of this went down, when the kids were taken away from their dad. It`s heart- wrenching.

Tell us what happened.

AMBER GOODHAND, REPORTER, RADARONLINE.COM: hi, Jane, thanks for having me. It`s absolutely heart-wrenching. It was an emotional night. Charlie was clearly distraught, although he stayed positive. Like he says, he`s a winner.

I think it`s a gripping video. It shows Charlie with the children like we`ve never seen before. Calling him daddy; he`s telling them it will be all right.

But clearly there`s a lot going on in this family with Charlie and Brooke. And the number one thing we have to do is look out for those children.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got a big issue with all of this. Are Charlie and Brooke both bad parents? Charlie`s house certainly doesn`t look like the best place for them, but are these twins any safer with Brooke? In court papers, Brooke admits to falling off the wagon last week while in the Bahamas with Charlie, and Charlie says he`s got the photos to prove that she was doing drugs.

Now, Brooke is currently in outpatient treatment, so I guess she`s been sober, according to some published reports, for a week. Sheen tested clean for drugs over the weekend, so it`s possible he`s actually been sober longer than she has, but neither have been sober for very long.

I`m wondering how could Brooke point the finger at him that they`re safer with her when she is obviously in a battle with drugs herself? And why does she say she fears for the safety of these kids now when she accused him of assault and then she goes off to party with him in the Bahamas, Linda Kenney Baden?

LINDA KENNEY BADEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I am so suspect of this, Jane. I mean this came Thursday after she was with him for the weekend and she goes with the kids and the goddesses and whatever you want to call them? I`m really suspect. I think she was jealous he was getting all this attention.

I think I`m also concerned that perhaps somebody put her up to this. You know, he was all over the air waves really bashing CBS, and doing employment law, I`m going to tell you, he was winning. He was positioning himself. He got his staff paid at least the four episodes --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He wasn`t winning.

KENNEY BADEN: He absolutely was winning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was making a fool of himself. No.

KENNEY BADEN: This is an exclusive contract law.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He may be winning the contractual battle.

KENNEY BADEN: People follow him on Twitter. What you don`t get is --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what? So does Tila Tequila. That doesn`t make her a winner.

KENNEY BADEN: Well, they think that a lot of men out there think that he`s living the dream. And that`s why he`s in --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is not a dream. This is a nightmare, and it`s a nightmare called addiction. I`m telling you, I`ve been there. I know what it looks like. It`s grandiose, it`s arrogant and it`s all that stuff. But it`s not pretty.

Everybody stay right where you are. We`re going to have more on Charlie after the break.

And guess what, it`s not Charlie Sheen alone. If you`re grappling with addiction or know somebody who is, I want to hear your story.

Cynthia, North Carolina, says he was raped by a neighbor when she was 12. That triggered an eating disorder and later smoking addiction. And when she was pregnant with her first child, she realized it`s time to take the power back. She began to eat sensibly and quit smoking.

You won my book --


DYLAN HOWARD, SENIOR EXECUTIVE EDITOR, RADARONLINE.COM: That constant challenge to be clean. Do you view it as a challenge or is it easy to do?

SHEEN: No, it`s a choice. You just close your eyes, you change your brain, you wake up, you`re like ok. Let`s do something different. It is not about a disease. It`s not about, you know, having to hang on and roll with a bunch of weirdos and talking about how depressed we all are.

You finally just go eww -- you know good luck. You`re going to need it. I`ll be over here winning.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. Winning. That`s from RadarOnline. Tonight, authorities removed Charlie Sheen`s twin sons from his home. Is that what you call winning, Charlie?

This is the battle over the 2-year-old boys as Charlie`s ex, Brooke files court documents claiming Charlie threatened her life and refused to return their sons. Brooke, though, admits she fell off the wagon the other week in the Bahamas where she was partying with Charlie. Are both these parents losers?

Mark Vincent Kaplan, you`re a family law attorney who represented K- Fed in the Britney Spears custody battle, what do you make of all this ugliness?

MARK VINCENT KAPLAN, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, I think that it`s going to be very hard for Charlie to convince a court that he is child- centered when he is taking all of these scurrilous allegations about Brooke out in the public. There is no interest in that.

His lawyers should be talking if at all. Not Charlie. It is certainly not going to help him. And quite frankly, if I were the court in this particular case, I would be concerned about whether or not perhaps Brooke`s mother who I understand has custody might be at least temporarily the best custodial care provider for these children

The conduct of both Brooke and Charlie would be troubling to a court. And I think it is. I noticed in the order that the court issued, that the court invited Mr. Sheen to come in ex-parte to modify these orders; invited him to do that because the orders were obtained without notice to Mr. Sheen.

And it`s going to be interesting to see when he might do that. I don`t think he`s going to wait --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you say that in plain English? What exactly are you suggesting there?

KAPLAN: Well, the court said that I`m going to give, Brooke, I`m going to give you these orders but Mr. Sheen I invite to you come in and change these orders on an ex-parte basis. Don`t wait until March 22 when the hearing is set.

It will be interesting to see what he does.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In other words, the battle isn`t over and I got to say, this isn`t the first time Brooke has accused Charlie of violence. Remember Brooke`s frightened 911 call lass Christmas in Aspen? Check this out.


BROOKE MUELLER, CHARLIE SHEEN`S FORMER WIFE: My husband had me -- with a knife and I`m scared for my life and he threatened me.

911 OPERATOR: Ok. Are you guys separated right now?

MUELLER: Yes right now we have people that are separating us. I have to file the report or else --

911 OPERATOR: Are there other people there? Does he still have the knife?

MUELLER: He still does.

911 OPERATOR: What`s your name?

MUELLER: Brooke.

911 OPERATOR: And what`s your husband`s name?

MUELLER: It`s Charlie Sheen.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Amber Goodhand with Radar Online, after that she goes partying with Charlie and his two goddesses to the Bahamas; I mean what credibility does she have after that?

GOODHAND: Right. She claims in her declaration that he kind of swindled her into going on that trip. He held the kids. In her declaration, like you said, she admits that she hasn`t been sober as recently as the past week, including that trip to the Bahamas whereas Charlie has passed four drug tests with Including one last night where he randomly took one on the spot without us asking for it. He said and, hey, I challenge Brooke to take one. Let`s go test for test; let`s see where she stands right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I feel so sorry for these kids. Thank you, panel.

Next, I`m going to tell what you Charlie Sheen should do if he wants his kids back.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Charlie Sheen, in recovery, we say, there is no mess you can`t clean up. Well, you`ve created quite a mess, sir. You haven`t killed anybody, dude, so there`s still hope, so here`s what you should do. Issue a written statement saying, quote, "Now that the drugs have worn off, I`m finally coming to my senses and I realize I`ve made a tremendous mess of everything. So I`m checking myself into rehab for drugs, alcohol, sex and anger addiction and I will stay there for six months and work hard on my sobriety.

I don`t know if I`ll ever get my show back but I apologize to my producer for the mean things I said when I was in the insanity of my disease. I do want to see my young sons and I will do everything in my power to earn their respect. I`ve been completely irresponsible and a terrible role model. There is no excuse but now I`m determined to change.

I am so sorry for everything."

Think about it, Charlie. If you want to get sober, you have to change everything about your life and you`ve got to learn to say "I am sorry. I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up."

Nancy Grace next.