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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Woman Murdered in Yoga Store; Neighbor Kidnaps, Rapes, Tortures Woman

Aired March 15, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a devastating blow in the war on women. Two young women savagely attacked inside a trendy yoga clothing store in an upscale neighborhood. Two masked men brutally sexually assault them, murdering one and leaving the other tied up. Police desperately searching for any clues tonight. Who are these cold-blooded demons? And I`ll tell you why this case has sparked global outrage among women.

And an escalating uproar over an incomprehensible crime. Cops say an 11-year-old girl was violently raped by at least 18 men and boy. In an appalling move, some people are actually blaming the 11-year-old girl. I`ll talk to a family friend of this young victim about this unimaginably sick situation. With one swung as young as 14, does this mark a complete breakdown in societal values?

Plus, our addict nation claims another rock star, drummer Casey Royer, former member of punk-rock band Social Distortion allegedly overdoses on heroin in front of his 12-year-old son. Cops say his house was filthy and covered in paraphernalia, including needles. This rock legend faces not just drug charges but child endangerment charges, too. So who is protecting his son tonight? I`m taking your calls.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So deeply wounding to everyone with a heart who cares, to know that there are people in this world who could do such things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news. A neighborhood shattered by the horrifying rapes of two young women and the murder of one of them. Cops tonight hunting for the two monsters they say violently attacked these women: 30-year-old Jayna Murray. Look at this beautiful young woman seen in this video from YouTube. That woman is dead tonight. Her 27-year-old friend and co-worker, who we are not naming and who thankfully survived the savage attack.

They were both brutally attacked on Friday night. The women worked at Lululemon, a trendy yoga clothing store located in the very upscale community of Bethesda, Maryland. Cops say they closed the store up at 9 p.m., but an hour later, the two women went back in together through the front door to get something one of them had forgotten. It`s now 10 p.m. in busy Bethesda shopping district, not the middle of the night in some abandoned warehouse. OK? We`re talking a very busy popular trendy shopping district. The Apple store is right next door. OK. That will give you an idea.

Still, cops say two male attackers slipped in just seconds behind these women wearing dark clothing, masks and gloves. Detectives are still trying to piece together what happened next, but at 8 a.m. Saturday morning, the next morning, cops say a female manager who was opening up the store saw that merchandise had been disturbed. She heard a faint noise coming from the back room. That manager became nervous, asked somebody from the outside to help her look into the noise. She found the rape victim tied up in the back of the store and presumably discovered murder victim Jayna Murray`s body, as well, there.

Cops say both women were sexually assaulted, and cash was taken from the store. There is no surveillance video from inside the store. Cops say they did take a slew of forensic evidence. Let`s hope these demons have rap sheets so their DNA will be matched to those rap sheets and solve this horrific crime. Its story has shaken women around the globe who practice yoga and are devotees of the Lululemon brand. It`s a terrifying setback in our fight against the war on women. I want to know what you have to say about this. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to Captain Paul Starks in Montgomery County, Maryland, Police Department. Paul, where are you in the hunt for these depraved men?

CAPTAIN PAUL STARKS, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND: Investigators continue to gather information. They`ve done a comprehensive survey of adjoining commercial businesses trying to gather video from those locations, as well as interviewing people who work and live in that area.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, they came in through the front door right behind the two ladies who had left something inside. I said the Apple store is right next door. You see this is a very trendy area. I would assume that, even though the store itself did not have surveillance video on the inside, that there would be tons of video of this street. And so whoever walked up at that particular time, you would be able to at least see -- see them on videotape. I can`t imagine they`re wearing ski masks while they`re walking down the street.

STARKS: We don`t know what they were doing when they were outside. But we`re asking people to try to remember if they saw two subjects who were acting suspicious. The surviving victim has provided a description. One of the suspects is about six feet tall. The other, about 5`3". There`s a big height difference there. Two people walking around with that difference could have been noticed. We`d like to hear from people.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, one of our guests here on ISSUES tonight, Judd Borakove, was friendly with both women, knew Jayna particularly well. Listen to what he said about this horrific crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDD BORAKOVE, FRIEND OF VICTIMS: A lot of us have talked, and it seemed odd. Every aspect of it seems odd.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now police say the women closed up at 9 p.m. They went back in the front door about an hour later. The suspects allegedly slipped in right behind them. These horrific individuals, these mobsters raped both women and murdered Jayna. But cops are saying this started out as a robbery.

Judd Borakove, first of all, we are so sorry about the loss of your friend. Our hearts go out to the families of both of these women. This is beyond comprehension evil. You believe something doesn`t add up about this scenario. Give us your thoughts on this issue.

BORAKOVE: Well, Jane, it`s not just me. A lot of us have talked, and just from the initial reports to the evidence that`s been presented to the descriptions, you know, it`s a neighborhood where, as you`ve mentioned, it`s very upscale. You -- I can`t even remember something like this ever happening in this neighborhood.

And it was at a time of night where Bethesda is very active around the -- it`s Friday night. It`s a very active area for no one to have seen anything. The Apple store had just launched their iPad 2. There were lines down the street. Maybe not at that time but still people around. Restaurants were going on. And nobody saw a thing. Nobody heard anything.

You know, and the girls had even left the store. They had left, locked up, came back, and somehow these guys timed it perfectly to get into the store right behind them. Just nothing adds up. People are very nervous. I own a business in Bethesda. And you know, I have women coming to us just -- you know, they`re rattled. And...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you saying you feel these women may have been specifically targeted?

BORAKOVE: I really don`t know. I just know that, you know, having talked with a lot of other people, business owners, residents, a lot of us have questions, a lot of questions. And we really want this to get solved. It`s -- it`s really rattled everybody to the bone. And, you know, I can`t say for sure that, you know, something is going on. Maybe they were targeted. It seems like that could have been a possibility.

I`m not the police. All I know is that, you know, we are -- you know, everybody in Bethesda, everybody is willing and wants to help in any way possible.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to find out. And I know you`re organizing a 5K run in the honor of these two women. And extraordinary women. We`re going to tell you a little bit more about them. The murder victim, her history, unbelievable. I mean, what an overachiever.

But let`s get to my big issue first: the ripple effect. You brought this up, Judd. This is anything but an isolated crime. The repercussions are being felt everywhere. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry she -- she died in a violent way. That`s very disturbing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A manager who runs a clothing store across the street says she will never let anyone work alone again. She`s looking into buying panic bracelets for her employees.

Look, I know this video that I play every so often makes some people scoff. But it`s exactly what I mean when I talk about a psychological burqa. You know, we look at women forced to wear burqas, and we say this is crazy. This is on the other side of the world. It`s not going to happen to me. But you know what? It`s no different. This kind of violent crime against women has the same psychological impact as being forced to wear a burqa.

If women in an upscale Bethesda neighborhood -- OK, this crime happened next door to a very popular Apple store with lines down the block. If women can`t go down a major shopping street in America without wearing panic bracelets, then we women are just as constricted as if we were wearing burqas -- Linda Kenney Baden, criminal defense attorney.

LINDA KENNEY BADEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, this is awful. I mean, if I were representing these guys, I would tell them to bring their toothbrush. It is terrible. I mean, this is an upscale neighborhood. It looks like a crime of opportunity.

And I would beg people out there who know somebody who pals around with a 5`3" person and a six-foot person, to call them in because no one is safe, not even their own family, with the kind of violence that these two have engaged in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s hope that the DNA is a match to some individual or two individuals in the system and they can identify these people immediately and stop this horror.

But it goes beyond just these two individuals. There is a war on women in this country. And anybody who tells me that I`m full of it, because I`ve been confronted by people who have said that, look at these women and tell me that there is no war on women.

Everybody, we`re going to have more on this brutal yoga store murder in a moment. And we`re taking your calls. You`re lining up. 1-877-JVM- SAYS.

Also, cops say an 11-year-old girl is violently raped by at least 18 men and boys. Now some people are pointing the finger of blame at the young girl. You will not believe this story. It`s caused tremendous outrage.

But first, two women sexually assaulted and one murdered. Who committed this savage crime, and how are we going to find these suspects?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So deeply wounding to everyone with a heart who cares, you know, that there are people in this world who could do such things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry she -- she died in a violent way. It`s very disturbing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, nerves shattered as cops furiously hunt for two vicious monsters who raped two women and murdered one of them. The brutal attacks inside an upscale yoga clothing store in a very upscale neighborhood in Bethesda, Maryland. Tonight, the impact is being felt around the globe. Lululemons, they have 100 stores. I pass one in the Upper West Side all the time here in Manhattan.

The Facebook page buzzing with comments from women everywhere. One woman wrote, "Send my love to my Lulus. I`m heartbreaking -- I`m heartbroken over here." Around the world, people are upset about this.

Beverly, Ohio, your question or thought, ma`am.

CALLER: Yes, ma`am. Good evening, Jane. I love your show, first time caller. I`d like to know how they got in the store when the ladies came back in. And if they weren`t targeted, they may have been in the store before. And if cameras were available.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Captain Paul Starks, your thoughts on Judd`s thought that perhaps there`s something to this, more to this than a regular old robbery. I mean, why go into a yoga clothing store? We know that most people buy with credit cards. There`s not going to be a lot of cash.

STARKS: I can`t comment on the intelligence or motives of these two suspects. We know that the ladies returned to the store. Or they left the store about 9:45, returned at about 10:05. We believe the suspects followed them through the front door, which may have remained unlocked. That`s where the confrontation occurred.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you have any idea who these individuals are? I mean, a license plate, anything?

STARKS: Well, that`s why we`re scouring the neighborhood there for more information. We`re interviewing and re-interviewing folks who live and work in the area. And again, we`re beginning to recover some video. But that`s going to take some time to scan that video and review it.

In the meantime, we`re asking for some patience. We know there are a lot of theories out there. We don`t want to discount one over the other or give one more credence either. The detectives want a full playing field here to work.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my take on this. This story is like a punch in the stomach to me. Because even though I don`t know these two women, I feel I do. Because I`ve done yoga for years. Yoga is an invisible community of like-minded people. Wherever we go in the world, there`s a yoga studio where we can find serenity and meet like-minded, peaceful people.

That community extends to stores that sell yoga-style clothing, like Lululemon. In fact, the murdered woman had organized free community yoga events. So this horrific violation, and this violence is the exact opposite of the mind-body-spirit harmony that yoga stands for.

And I think, Judd, that`s one of the reasons why this is so devastating to everyone, because it`s the antithesis of what these two women have devoted their life to.

BORAKOVE: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it is hard to really talk about right now. But especially, Jayna, I knew her well. She was such a sweet woman that, you know, I can`t think of a single person who I`ve ever talked to who did not like her. And she definitely embodied that yoga kind of feel. You know, just very loving and caring. And, you know, to have it happen to someone like that is devastating. Absolutely devastating.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, friends of Jayna, you and others say they just know she probably put up a fight. Not surprising considering, let`s take a look at the spirit that she showed here in this YouTube video of the Bungee jump she did to celebrate her 30th birthday. Look at this beautiful, beautiful young woman. Who would imagine that this wouldn`t be the biggest risk she would take in her life?

She had an incredible resume. She was a key leader for Lululemon for two years. She was studying for an MBA in marketing. She had a master`s degree in communications and a degree in international business marketing, and she was also an accomplished marathon runner. And again, the organizer of free community yoga events.

So Judd, tell us about this 5K run you`re planning in her memory.

BORAKOVE: So it`s in her memory, and it`s hopefully to raise funds, to donate to organizations that can help prevent this in the future. Women`s organizations, rape prevention, crisis centers, whatever. We -- eventually at some point when the family has had time to grieve, we want to talk to them. And, you know, let them kind of say where they really feel it`s necessary.

And, you know, we`re planning on trying to put this together sometime late summer, early fall. It will be a run-walk. We have a lot of community support already. So hopefully, it will be very -- very welcomed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We will cover it. Absolutely.

Yvonne, Michigan, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Hi, how are you today? OK. This is what I think happened. That someone called them as a ruse and stated that they had maybe left something or lost something valuable. No one else can have it, you know. And they wanted to know if they would meet them back at the store. Because the one girl owned it, right?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good point. Linda Kenney Baden, your thoughts on that?

BADEN: Well, it sounds like it was just a crime of opportunity, really. That somebody was probably staking out the Apple store, saw these young women. And again, women are targets, Jane. And it was easy to target them.

And what I`m hoping is that Jayna`s life (ph) was that she scratched this guy, and she left some kind of damage on him. So when he went home last night, somebody sees him, and somebody will realize, "Hey, I`ve got to tell the police." Don`t let her death be in vain.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Please come forward if you have any information.

Thank you, fantastic panel.

Police say at least 18 men raped an 11-year-old child. So now why are some people blaming the little girl? I will talk live with a family friend of that victim.

But first a woman allegedly kidnapped and tortured by her former neighbor. Boy, and they say there`s no war on women? Are you kidding me?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY FOWLER, PARKER COUNTY SHERIFF: And all of a sudden the door burst open, and she came rushing out, screaming, "I`m here. I`m here!"

I hope I never see it again. To me, it was a house of horrors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, unbelievably sickening details emerging about the kidnapping and torture of a 62-year-old woman who survived two long weeks of hell in a house of torture. Deputies found the woman alive inside the home of this sicko, Jeffrey Maxwell, on Saturday.

Apparently, this woman had rejected this guy`s sexual advances when they were neighbors four years ago. So cops say this -- I don`t know what the word to use on this guy is. This man kidnapped her and burned her house down. The arrest affidavit says the woman was bound, raped and tortured with chains, leather restraints and sexual devices for nearly two weeks. Maxwell allegedly strung her up in a homemade device used for skinning deer.

Tonight, the sheriff says this discovery has led them to reopen two cold cases, one of them involving the disappearance of this creep`s own wife.

Straight out to Joe Gomez, reporter with KTRH News Radio.

Joe, how did this woman escape alive? Thank God she did.

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH NEWS RADIO: Well, thank God indeed, Jane. It was a little bit of dumb luck and apparently some good investigative work by the -- by the Texas Rangers. You know, they went to this guy`s home because of a tip-off that had put him at the woman`s house shortly after he allegedly burned it down.

The investigators went to his farmhouse which doubled as a house of horrors. And as soon as they knocked on the door, the woman burst out the door screaming, "I`m here, I`m here. Help me." Somehow she had managed to escape out of her bonds and ties. And that`s what led them to finally arrest this guy and charge him with aggravated kidnapping and aggravated sexual assault for allegedly holding this woman hostage in terror for two weeks.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It sounds like a sadist dungeon. It sounds like it was actually like a sadistic sex dungeon, Joe.

GOMEZ: That`s what it sounds like to me. This guy had apparently strapped her up to a device used for skinning deer. Skinning deer! That`s like something out of "The Silence of the Lambs."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they say there`s no war on women. If I ever hear that again, let me tell you something. Don`t ever tell me that again. Whoever did out there. You know who you are.

Maxwell`s arrest has caused police to reopen two cold cases. One of them involving Amy Smith, pictured here in "The Dallas Morning News." Smith disappeared in 2000. Her sister-in-law said Amy`s house was also burned to the day the very day she vanished.

And Maxwell was arrested back in 1987 after his wife was found with her throat slashed. She refused to press charges and then vanished and is now presumed dead.

So here`s my take on this. Maxwell allegedly slit his wife`s throat. His wife didn`t press charges. But you don`t need a victim to press charges on something that serious. The D.A. could, of course, choose to prosecute on their own. Should this man have been prosecuted a long time ago? And if so, would he even be walking around free, given all of this -- Joe.

GOMEZ: Well, that`s exactly a good point, Jane. Had this guy been convicted of kidnapping and attacking his wife, back in the `80s, who knows if this -- you know, spell of terror he`s rained on North Texas could have been prohibited earlier. As you mentioned, they now believe that he may have killed not only his wife but also another woman`s disappearance in 2000, who also -- whose home had also burned down to the ground. So really, a lot of questions here. Who knows where it ends?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to stay on top of this, Joe. Thanks so much.

Coming up, police say an 11-year-old girl gang raped.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: An escalating uproar over an incomprehensible crime. Cops say an 11-year-old girl was violently raped by at least 18 men and boys. In an appalling move, some people are actually blaming the 11-year- old girl. I`ll talk to a family friend of this victim about this unimaginably sick situation. With one suspect as young as 14, does this mark a complete breakdown in societal values?

Plus, our addict nation claims another rock star. Drummer Casey Royer, former member of punk rock band Social Distortion allegedly overdoses on heroin in front of his 12-year-old son. Cops say his house was filthy and covered in paraphernalia, including needles. This rock legend faces not just drug charges but child endangerment charges, too. So who is protecting his son tonight? I`m taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA MORALES, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: This was an 11-year-old child. No matter what she did, did not do, how she dressed, how she talked, how she acted does not matter. This was a brutal and savage rape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is more shocking than the gang rape of an 11- year-old girl? The fact that some people are actually blaming the little girl. Cops say the child was gang raped back in November by at least 18 men and boys, males as young as 14, some as old as 27. The girl told cops, much of it happened inside this abandoned trailer in the small town of Cleveland, Texas, outside Houston. But cops only found out about it when cell phone videos of the alleged rapes went viral.

That`s right. Cops say videos show exactly what happened inside that trailer. Cops say men were cheering other men on and guys were taking cell phone videos. Those who have seen the videos describe them as horrific, graphic and degrading.

This case appears to be tearing apart this little Texas town. Why are people rallying behind these men and boys who have been charged with sexually assaulting this young girl? Listen to this Houston-based community activist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUANELL X, ACTIVIST: It was not the young girl that yelled rape. Stop right there. Something is wrong, brothers and sisters. Where was the mother? Where was the father? Where was the family?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, with due respect, how about asking where was the family of the 14-year-old boy who became the youngest suspect in this case? There has been talk this 11-year-old girl wore make-up and may have looked older than her years. No matter what she was wearing, doing or saying, she is too young to legally consent to having sex. Having sex with an 11-year-old is against the law and morally wrong, period.

What do you think about this? I`m taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to Demetria Lucas who blogs with essence.com through "Essence" magazine; Demetria, I have all the compassion in the world for those families whose lives have been shattered by this horrific event. All of the families.

But I take issue with Quanell X. We just heard him say it was not the young girl who yelled "rape". So what, when I was 11, I didn`t even know what the word "rape" meant. Your reaction to his suggestion that it is incumbent upon an 11-year-old girl to object to rape.

DEMETRIA LUCAS, ESSENCE.COM: There is no justification. I don`t really know exactly what he is thinking. I would like to say that they want to protect the young men in the community. But there is no protection for men who allegedly rape an 11-year-old girl no matter what she wears, no matter what she says, no matter what she does.

There is no way to justify this. She is 11 years old. She can`t consent to go to recess. She has to raise her hand to ask to go to the bathroom. She has to get permission from her mother to do anything. She can`t just consent to sex, much less with 18 people, the oldest of which is 27 at this time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, you have an excellent blog on this subject at essence.com. I suggest everybody check it out and read it.

LUCAS: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The girl told police that it all started when she accepted a ride from a 19-year-old neighbor. Cops say the girl was taken somewhere and then told to take off her clothes and if she didn`t, she would be beaten.

This is an 11-year-old girl. How the heck is she supposed to know how to handle a situation like that?

Brenda Myers, you`re a family acquaintance and you`re a leader, the Community and Children`s Impact Center. You know this family. Tell us about this girl, her parents and siblings and why she is getting this rap that she wore make-up. So what?

BRENDA MYERS, COMMUNITY AND CHILDREN`S IMPACT CENTER: Well, you know, this is a million-dollar question. And I hear this on a daily basis about the little girl. And it is very disturbing to me.

This child, like you said, was 11. My granddaughters are 7 and 8 years old. Some of the shocking things that I heard in the last couple days is just beyond belief.

My 7-year-old granddaughter came home from school the other day and made a comment about (INAUDIBLE) my you-know-what and I like fell to the floor. I asked her again to repeat it and she repeated it like it was nothing. And so I asked her where she heard something like this and she was like, "Well, I heard it from a little boy at school."

This 11-year-old girl had no understanding of what was happening to her when it happened to her. She was playing along as a friend to apparently get in this car. She has no concept of what was going to happen to her when she got in that vehicle. I do know that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Betsy, Kansas, your question or thought, ma`am.

BETSY, KANSAS (via telephone): yes. Thank you for taking my call. I am so angry about them blaming the 11-year-old little girl. All of the male subjects were older than she was. If anybody should have known better, it was them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you bring up my big issue tonight. This is indefensible behavior. It is possible the girl wasn`t properly supervised, sure, but that`s not a justification for sexually violating a child.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MORALES: I`ve been in the town hall meeting; it was asked where the parents of the young girl were. We can easily and stupidly say where were the parents of the accused. We caution those that are blaming the victim that it will only serve to hurt our communities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Midwin Charles, normally you can argue, hey they arrested the wrong people. In this case cops say the suspects videotaped each other. There will also likely be DNA evidence to add to the video evidence.

Now an attorney for four of the suspect, James Evans says, quote, "We do believe that she, the victim, had a desire to be a willing participant." What I`m seeing is that it is sort of like the parents want to be supportive. And since they can`t argue, necessarily, -- I don`t want to put everybody, they`re all innocent until proven guilty -- that they can`t necessarily argue if there is videotape that they`re falling back on this position that actually could hurt them if they go to trial.

MIDWIN CHARLES, ATTORNEY: Oh, but it would hurt them tremendously. But Jane, this is not unusual when it come to rape cases. There is always the "blame the victim" mentality on the part of the defendant. And unfortunately, it backfires. It never, ever works, particularly when you`re talking about an 11-year-old because at the end of the day, she is a child and she can`t consent to anything.

As Demetria said, like going to recess or even taking a lunch break. So I don`t see as a defense strategy how it`s going to work.

The best the defense attorneys can do is say my client was not there. If their particular client was not videotaped and there is no DNA evidence to link them to the crime, then that`s the best that they can say. But blaming the victim? It always backfires particularly in the case such as this one.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And here`s my take. Let`s talk about this 11- year-old girl. There have been some published reports suggesting she liked to dress older than her age, hang out with older boys at the playground and wear make-up. So what?

How old can an 11-year-old look even if she is wearing lots of make- up? Let`s see. Maybe 14? That`s still under the age of consent. Ok.

(CROSSTALK)

CHARLES: Those things are irrelevant. That`s the word we have to use here. They are irrelevant. They do not matter. And even if she was an older woman, even if she was a prostitute, even if she was dressed provocatively, even if it was 2:00 in the afternoon, 2:00 in the morning, if she was drunk -- irrelevant. Rape is rape.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Friends and family of the suspects are understandably going through a lot of emotions. Let`s hear some of the people in the community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pain. That`s all I can say. Pain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you think about that happening in your neighborhood? How would you feel?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do believe that there are other victims in this case. And I`m thinking about the minor suspects. Five are juveniles. One boy is just 14 years old and in middle school. If these boys were in the room with men as old as 27, there was likely tremendous peer pressure.

If charged as an adult, these young suspects face 15 years to life in prison. I personally don`t believe locking up a 14-year-old for life is going to solve society`s problems. I believe in fact we have to get beyond just the idea of crime and punishment to a deeper understanding of why these kinds of sexual atrocities are occurring.

And Demetria Lucas, I do believe young girls and boys are growing up in a highly sexualized environment that they don`t understand. And in a desire for acceptance, may end up being horrifically influenced by some older males who should be punished.

LUCAS: Definitely, definitely. I mean it`s hard to look at the 14- year-old and hold them in the level of accountability as a 27-year-old. I mean they are barely out of childhood themselves and they`re definitely still an adolescent.

But there`s some sort of issue that`s going on in this entire community where people are trying to blame the child, the 11-year-old child, for what happened to her by adult males and men who are, at minimum -- or boys, who are at minimum, three years older than her.

We`re putting the emphasis on the wrong place. We`re looking at what the little girl did and we should be looking at why these boys felt that this was ok. To the point that they videotaped it, that they put it on camera and then showed it to other people and passed it around high schools and elementary schools and junior high school.

This did not come to light until a teacher saw it and then told the principal. Like I don`t understand how they thought this was acceptable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you. This is a metaphor for what`s wrong our society.

Joe Gomez, quickly, you`ve been down there in the area. Is there any self-reflection going on?

Joe Gomez, You`d better believe it. You know, there`s a lot of self- reflection going on. People are also talking about a racial divide that`s been created there under this firestorm over this alleged rape.

The bottom line is an 11-year-old girl. She is old enough; she`s playing with teddy bears. She`s a straight A student. She was subject potentially to this violent gang rape. I mean to blame a little innocent girl like this, it`s going to cause an enormous cloud of just -- just this horror. That`s what`s happening in this community right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you fantastic panel.

Addiction, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A punk rock pioneer allegedly overdoses on heroin. And what`s worse cops say he did it right in front of his 12-year-old son. Watch this YouTube video of Casey Royer and his son just hanging out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ROYER, BAND MEMBER, SOCIAL DISTORTION: Yes, I`m sorry to do this to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. That`s Casey and his son goofing around in happier times. Casey, best known as the former drummer of Social Distortion after co-founding that group, he went on to play with The Adolescents and DI. Here`s one of their music videos "On the Western Front" from YouTube.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC VIDEO, "ON THE WESTERN FRONT")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ironic that he was locked up because he is locked up, I think tonight, unless he bailed up. He is feeling the pressure right now. I have to tell you that.

Sources tell TMZ, Casey seen here in a video was watching TV with his son when he OD`d on heroin. The terrified young boy frantically ran next door for help. When cops finally arrived, they say they found the Newport Beach, a pretty fancy place, California home, covered with filth and trash and drug paraphernalia including needles.

The 52-year-old was rushed to the hospital and then hauled to jail.

Joining me, Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter for Radar Online; Alexis, what is the very latest? Where is this dude tonight?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADARONLINE: You know, Casey is still in jail, Jane. He is being held on $120,000 bond. You know, he has been charged with one count of child endangerment, another of consuming heroin. I don`t think this is something that is going to go away very quickly for him at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, how old was the youngster? His son? Twelve, right?

TERESZCUK: Twelve -- 12 years old. Yes, you`re exactly right. Just a little kid in the room with his dad when he OD`s; apparently, he went to the next-door neighbors to get help. He didn`t even call 911 himself, he`s so young.

They came, they called 911. When the police came they took him to the hospital. He recovered and then they arrested him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this little kid is a hero.

TERESZCUK: He is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: His father should be really happy that he was -- had the wits to go to a neighbor because this guy could be dead.

Here`s my big issue. It`s hard to become a rock and roll cliche. Some stars think the substance abuse is the solution, when it is really the problem. They feel that`s where their creativity comes from. And if they stop using, their mojo will vanish.

Listen to this from Lady Gaga on CBS`s "60 Minutes".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LADY GAGA, SINGER: I smoke a lot of pot when I write music. I`m not going to like, sugar coat it for "60 Minutes" that, you know, I`m some like sober human being because I`m not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she was probably stoned when she thought up that stupid meat dress which I was a fan until she did that. Then forget it, bye-bye Lady Gaga for me.

Some musicians had this notion that their creativity comes from experimenting with drugs so they make it part of their persona and then it is harder to stop.

But sobriety does happen. Even the icons of rock and roll are cleaning up. Eric Clapton, he has been sober for more than two decades. And the ultimate bad boy rocker, Keith Richards recently went sober according to published reports.

Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of the Hills Treatment Center. What is it about this rocker mentality? It is such a tired cliche really. Isn`t it cooler today to be sober as a rocker?

HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER AND CEO, HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: I have to tell you something, Jane. You`re right. It is a cliche. I mean for any individual to think that they need a drug in order to become more creative means that they feel a shortcoming within themselves. That they don`t feel good enough about themselves to be creative sober.

I mean if you think about it, being sober is really the real high that we get and being able to really feel and be sensitive and really be creative and really be out there naturally. And that to me is what this new wave that`s sweeping the country because there is a huge recovery movement, not only in the music world but in the film world, in L.A., that is really spreading.

That`s the message that we`re really giving. That you can be sober, have fun and really go kick some butt out there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, if you`re being held on $120,000 bail, that`s 10 percent, that`s $12,000. The fact that he`s been in show business this long Alexis and can`t come up with $12,000 that tells you all you need to know, I would think.

TERESZCUK: It absolutely does. And you know what, I don`t think that he probably has saved a lot of money. It seems like with the drug addiction, it costs a lot to keep this drug addiction going.

And as you said, he lives in a fancy part of California. Newport Beach is very, very posh. But it was a mess. The house was covered with drug paraphernalia. And as you said, it was filthy. And he clearly isn`t, he doesn`t have the money that he can get together even for the $12,000.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hang on, we`re going to get to more on the other side. More of this rock legend`s alleged OD.

And check out my book, "Addiction Nation". It`s available at Amazon.com. It`s going to tell you everything you need to know about addiction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: We have a term called "terminal uniqueness", which almost every addiction manifests, which is "I`m special. I`m different. This doesn`t apply to me. You guys don`t know what I need. I know what I need. I`m different."

And that terminal uniqueness --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is HLN`s Dr. Drew talking about "terminal uniqueness", something that alcoholics and addicts -- and I`m one of them, even though I`m in recovery -- suffer from. We think we`re special and we have to be reminded over and over again that we`re not. The rules apply to us too. Obviously, the word "terminal" is in there because many times there`s a fatal outcome.

However, punk rock legend, Casey Royer is lucky to be alive because even though he overdosed right in front of his 12-year-old son, his son managed to run for help.

Howard Samuels, briefly, when I hear OD, I always think somebody died. How can he OD and survive? What is an OD?

SAMUELS: Well, an overdose is that -- what that means is that you pass out and you start to turn blue and your body stops functioning and you have a very short period of time to get medical help before you actually die.

And a lot of people will OD and die because they don`t get that help. I mean I`ve OD`d on drugs and thank God an ambulance came to my house in New York and saved my life because I was OD`ing on cocaine.

So you know, it`s all about getting the help ASAP, in order to save your life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, this raises parent-child relationship issues. When you have an addicted parent it really affects you. It can taint your relationships forever.

Take a look at Courtney Love. She`s allegedly struggled on and off with drug abuse for years and it`s been talked about for decades. As a pre-teen her daughter actually got a restraining order against her mom, Courtney; and then have her guardianship stripped.

So Alexis, what kind of problems do kids of addicted parents traditionally struggle with as they grow up? What is this kid, this 12- year-old, who saved his dad`s life going to be going through?

TERESZCUK: Well, especially including these kids that are so much in the public eye because of their parents, they`re adversely affected by this all the time. And the one thing is that it`s often an issue about money that the parents with the addiction are spending the children`s money.

And so that`s what happened with Frances Cobain, she was very concerned, the whole family is very concerned that her mom Courtney Love was taking all of her money and spending. So they got this guardianship so that she couldn`t take control of her.

And then they had a horrible fight publicly when she turned 18.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And here`s the thing too. This guy doesn`t have $12,000 in cash to bail himself out apparently because he`s still in jail tonight and he`s been this famous rocker for so long so this 12-year- old child is not going to have the college fund, probably, unless some other relative is going to give him that money.

Jimmy, Rhode Island, your question or thought.

JIMMY, RHODE ISLAND: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey.

JIMMY: I just want to have an opportunity to congratulate. April 1st is a couple weeks away.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I`ll be 16 years sober then. God willing I`ll make it there.

JIMMY: I want to congratulate you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

JIMMY: My question is, the mother of the child -- is the mother an addict too? Is she around? Is she in the picture? I mean where`s the mother?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent question Jimmy.

Alexis, what do you know?

TERESZCUK: We don`t know if the mother is an addict. That hasn`t been reported at all. We haven`t found that out. And we haven`t heard that she is in the picture. They have been very quiet about where the little boy is right now. Whether he`s with family or he`s in the care of the state. But it`s been verified because he is a minor and people don`t want the public to know about where he is.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Howard Samuels, ten seconds. Is this guy known for being in and out of rehab? This Casey guy?

SAMUELS: That one -- I don`t know if this guy has been in and out. But at 52 years old and shooting heroin, he better get sober or he is dead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s hope he has hit bottom. It can happen. Thank you so much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have an exciting update here for you on ISSUES. We brought you the story of a heroic rescue of 25 lions, the largest ever search, seizure and relocation of its kind. These beautiful animals were abused in Bolivian circuses.

We can now tell you that Bob Barker donated $2 million to Animal Defenders International for these lions, funding three airlifts to bring these majestic creatures to safety and freedom. With Bob`s help they were able to raid and close down eight circuses all over Bolivia. In fact Bolivia is now circus-animal free.

These lions now live in a sanctuary in Colorado. This is the first time some of them have ever been released from a tiny cage. I hope the U.S. will take a cue. Animals are not put on this planet for our entertainment to be put in zoos or circuses. Bravo Bob Barker, you`re a true animal rights hero and we love you.

Nancy Grace next.

END