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Camera Reveals Girls` Sexual Abuse; Father of Musical Stars Sentenced

Aired March 31, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a horrifying discovery leads to a manhunt. Cops says a camera dropped off at a Florida thrift store shows photos of a little girl no older than 4 being sexually abused. Now police say it`s a race against time to find this innocent little girl and the monster who molested her. Investigators say the only leads are the other photos on the camera, pictures of the child at daycare and at home. Now cops say they need your help.

And the judge drops the hammer on the father of the famous musical family, The Five Browns. Is the prison sentence long enough for this pedophile to pay for his crime? I`ll tell you the judge`s shocking statements.

Also, battling back on the war on women. I`ll talk live tonight to a woman who says she narrowly escaped being brutally gang raped by a group of men. Now she is ready to tell her story to ISSUES.

Plus, superstar singer Rihanna`s shocking sex interview. After years of alleged abuse at the hands of her dad and then a beating from ex- boyfriend Chris Brown, why is Rihanna saying she enjoys S&M sex? Is she setting a bad example for how women should be treated? You will not believe some of her jaw-dropping statements. I`m taking your calls.

ISSUES starts now.



DETECTIVE CHRIS WILKINSON, PENSACOLA, FLORIDA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: It`s a scary thought to think about. But when you have a 4-year-old child that`s being molested most of the time, almost 100 percent of the time it`s a close family situation. It`s just heart-breaking that somebody could do this to a child.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight. Police need your help to hunt down a sick child predator.

A truly horrifying discovery was made on a camera donated to a Florida thrift store. An employee found photos of a 3- or 4-year-old girl who was drugged, stripped naked and photographed by some mystery sicko or, God forbid sickos. Police are circulating some edited photos in the hopes they`ll jog somebody`s memory.

Here is a blurred image of the victim at what looks like a daycare Christmas celebration. Cops are desperately hoping somebody recognizes the girl by her dress or might remember the daycare facility from a changing table, and that`s the changing table there. And look at the poster right above it. OK? These are clues. We need your help.

A reporter from affiliate WEAR who saw these depraved, unedited photos spoke to HLN. Listen to this.


LAURIE BERNSTEIN, REPORTER, WEAR-TV (via phone): When you see this little girl, you know, getting ready for church in her house, smiling, and you see her singing in this little play that they have. And then the next picture you click through is this little girl drugged, undressed, put in compromising positions. I mean, this little girl, she`s completely out of it in these pictures that were taken. And we can`t show you because of the graphic nature, but it was just so disturbing to see.

There wasn`t actually any inappropriate touching in the pictures. But she was completely drugged when these pictures were taken.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: They`re hoping against hope somebody recognizes something. Maybe even a pillow.

Straight out to investigative reporter Jon Lieberman, host of "True Facts" on cyber station

Jon, what is the very latest?

JON LIEBERMAN, HOST, USA.COM`S "TRUE FACTS": Oh, Jane, I`ll tell you. This is a heart-breaking story. Thank goodness for those volunteers at the thrift store who had the courage to come forward and say, "This isn`t right." And at this moment, police are aggressively trying to do two things. No. 1, of course, identify the little girl on the camera, in the pictures.

And No. 2, trying to identify either where she lived, the living room in these photos or that daycare center.

But there are a lot of obstacles for police, Jane. They believe that these photos were taken back in 2006, which means the 4-year-old then is now obviously, you know, 8, 9, maybe even 10 years old, depending on when the photos were taken. That`s obstacle one.

Two is, there are moving boxes seen in the living room on some of these photos, which could indicate this family was actually getting ready to move. So this is an uphill battle for police. But my hat off to them, because they are aggressively trying to find this predator, who did this to this little child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What -- it`s so sick, and it`s so nauseating, because we feel helpless. But somebody out there might recognize something. Look at those pillows with four different pattern -- colors on them. Maybe somebody recognizes that or even the couch.

Now, the director at the Fish and Loaves Thrift Store in Pensacola, Florida, says she discovered this horrific camera with these horrific pictures not long after it was dropped off. She doesn`t think this camera was dropped off by mistake. Listen to this.


POKEY MEYERS, FOUND CAMERA: I truly believe that it was brought here for a reason, so that -- we were meant to get it so that these children could be found.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to go out to Chris Wilkinson, detective, who is handling this case in Pensacola, Florida. First of all, cops do not think the daycare center pictured in the photos is connected to the abuse. Why not? Couldn`t this be some kind of daycare worker, sir?

CHRIS WILKINSON, DETECTIVE, PENSACOLA POLICE DEPARTMENT (via phone): Well, there`s a ton of different possibilities. But at this time, we`re -- we`re going on the assumption that the daycare facility was separate from the incident, and that the perpetrator, maybe even a spouse, was taking pictures with the same camera. And the pictures were all taken on different days, according to the camera`s access data. But that`s the assumption.

We`re having to try to find -- if we can find a daycare, everything else is going to fall into place.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my question to you. Given that this is such a potentially devastating crime to a child, and who knows how many other children this predator may have attacked, are you going to ultimately, if you do not get a tip from this media barrage, reveal this child`s face? Because once you do that, somebody may within a minute or two recognize the child.

WILKINSON: That is a -- that is a decision that`s made above my pay grade. But I will tell you that, in general, we don`t like to -- my training, we don`t like to reveal the face of the child. Unfortunately, is -- is in danger, and is -- could -- the child could be harmed if the child is exposed and we don`t get to the child in time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, weigh in on that. Because I want to understand more clearly what the detective, who`s doing everything in his power to find this child, means by if you expose the child`s face, the child could be in danger. Because I would think once you see the child`s face, any number of relatives could say, "I know who that is."

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: But again, I have to agree with Detective Chris Wilkinson. Because what if it`s the parents that actually took these pictures? And you show the child` face. Then child could be in danger. I mean, who`s to say that the abuse is still ongoing, Jane?

And one of the other things, too, many times when you have a pedophile who takes pictures like this, most likely many times they will download them to some kind of Web site. You know, when I was assigned to the FBI, we had a squad. And it dealt -- it was called Innocent Images, and they have an excellent database. And it`s a task force -- it was a task force- type squad who worked with local enforcement. So I`m sure Pensacola is working with FDLE, Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the FBI to try to identify innocent images-type squads.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, but there is, I think, hope of solving this case. Because in a similar case, cops hunted down and put a prolific pedophile behind bars. You may remember this case. These photos you`re about to see here became some of the most widely circulated images of child porn. Of course, we`re editing out the actual victim. The victim was taken out of the pictures by police, and then authorities asked the public for help.

And a tipster recognized, of all things, a bed spread from a Disney World resort. You see that? That`s a bed spread that somebody recognized. It led to the rescue of Masha Allen, who had been adopted from Russia by the man who abused her. Here she is testifying on Capitol Hill.


MASHA ALLEN, ABUSE VICTIM: The abuse started the night I got there. Matthew didn`t have a bedroom for me. He made me sleep in his bed from the very beginning. He molested me all the time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Midwin Charles, criminal defense attorney, you`ve covered so many of these cases. What do you think about the dangers versus the potential rewards of showing the child`s face to find her?

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, I think the potential reward here is going to outweigh the potential danger of having the child being identified. Remember, we don`t know if there are other victims out there who are susceptible to this pedophile. We don`t know if this is ongoing.

Remember, there were photographs at a daycare, as well. What does that mean? Other children.

So unfortunately, I understand that it was probably a very difficult decision for them to decide to show this young girl`s face. But I think it had to be done given the circumstances.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, police have been to dozens of daycare centers in the Pensacola, Florida area. They`ve gotten no leads. It`s possible this daycare center isn`t even in operation anymore. Remember, they think this happened back in 2006.

And Jon Lieberman, there`s also a possibility this could be a military family that`s already relocated, because there are military bases all over Florida. Your thoughts, Jon?

LIEBERMAN: Well, absolutely. There`s a military base right there, a Navy base in Pensacola.

The other thing is if you remember back to Hurricane Katrina, a lot of Katrina families actually got relocated to that area after Katrina in 2006. So this family could have been there. They could be transient. There were moving boxes in the photo. So literally, this predator could be anywhere in the country. This little girl, now perhaps 9 or 10, could be anywhere in the country.

And the only good thing about this case is that these sex predators, they love to document their work. It`s sickening. They love to take the photos, take the video. But that`s what`s going to get this person or people caught, is the fact that they took these photos of this little victim, and somebody`s going to recognize, as they did in the case you just showed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, also...

LIEBERMAN: Somebody is going to recognize a pillow or something.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Detective Wilkinson, ten seconds. You`re obviously taking fingerprints off of the camera. Have you matched that against the database?

WILKINSON: We have taken fingerprints off the camera, DNA off the camera. We`ve checked with Sony Corporation and a lot of other reference to the camera`s serial number.

We have visited every daycare within our area that was in operation in 2006. Unfortunately, there are now nowadays, especially, a lot of these daycares popping up that are just mom and pop.


WILKINSON: "I`ll just open up my door." And they`re unregistered, and they`re very dangerous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sir, that is a message. Be careful where you leave your children. Check it out carefully.

Thank you, fantastic panel. We`re going to stay on top of that story.

All right. Coming up later, the superstar singer Rihanna`s shocking sex interview after her ex-boyfriend, Chris Brown, beats her up. Why is Rihanna now saying she loves S&M? Yes, that stands for sadomasochism.

But first, the father of classical music family the Five Browns is sentenced for sexually abusing his daughters. But did the judge put this pedophile away for long enough? We`re taking your calls on this one. It`s an unbelievable story of sexual abuse: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586- 7297. Call me.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But when people perpetuate these -- these crimes against -- especially against children, they would -- it would never occur to them that at some point in their life, they`re going to have to answer for this. Especially a family like this where they`re celebrities. And we assign qualities to celebrities and everything is great and wonderful, which is why nobody would have seen the warning signs, because nobody would even think to look for it.




KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "INTOUCH WEEKLY": Sources are saying that the girls, they went to police when they found out that he was going to start managing child musicians again. And they did not want this to happen. They were worried about the welfare of other young women.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, three famous victims take back the power in a stunning sexual abuse scandal. The famous sibling piano sensation, the Five Browns, have topped classical music charts with songs like this one, "Flight of the Bumblebee," from Listen.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: They are amazing, amazingly talented. They performed on "Oprah." They perform on "60 Minutes." But these musical geniuses suffered with a toxic family secret for decades. Tonight, they finally have justice.

Last year, these three female prodigies, seen here on YouTube, went to police to reveal they were all sexually abused by their own father as children. Now their dad, Keith Brown -- who used to manage the group, has just been sentenced -- today, in fact, to ten years to life behind bars for sodomy on a child, under age 14, as well as sexual abuse of a child. Prosecutors say the crimes involved oral sex and fondling.

Straight out to Florida sex crimes prosecutor Stacey Honowitz.

Keith Brown, the dad, pleaded guilty as part of a plea deal. This 55- year-old man is spending the first night of his life tonight in prison as we speak. Given this very broad ten years to life sentence, how long is he really likely to be behind bars, Stacey?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA SEX CRIMES PROSECUTOR: Well, Jane, on sex cases, the perpetrators tend to do 85 to 95 percent of their time. So he will do a substantial amount of time on this sentence. It`s relatively low for what he was looking at, the maximum exposure. But there had to be reasons why the prosecutor decided to go with the ten years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. Maybe because they`re people of influence, and he doesn`t look like a predator. We`re going to get to that in a second.

There is no such thing as looking like a predator. Here`s my big issue. Repeat performance. These three famous women, who are now in their late 20s and early 30s, came forward because they were afraid of a repeat performance of their dad`s abuse. This was not an isolated incident. This happened over the course of years. This father was sexually abusing his three brilliant, beautiful, famous daughters when they were 13 years and younger. We`re talking oral sex and fondling.

Dr. Judy Kuriansky, clinical psychologist. These three daughters say they felt compelled to report their dad`s molestation years later when they were adults, because their dad started talking about managing another musical act, and they were afraid he might do it again to some other child.

DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Bless those young women, Jane, for coming forward and for allowing their names and their identity to be named. So many of these victims -- and let me correct myself. It`s not victims. It`s survivors of sexual abuse and incest. So many of these young women survivors are frightened to still have their identity known, or they`re protected also, which is important. But these have the courage and because as you say, their father potentially could be abusing others.

Although I must say, there are perpetrators like this, pedophiles who have an age preference. And this is like under 13 when these young daughters were abused. And they go for the younger daughters. It comes over many years, this can continue.


KURIANSKY: And the girls keep it secret. I have seen women who were in their 30s, 40s, 50s, who finally come to realize this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank God they finally came out and shared it with each other, first, I`m sure, and then with the world.

Jennifer in Tennessee, your question or thought, ma`am.

CALLER: Well, I`m very proud of these girls for having the courage to come forward. And it`s just unfair that your victims sometimes don`t get their rights. My daughter didn`t have any rights when she was drugged and raped by a man that she babysat for.

They let him plead not guilty, or guilty but to a lesser offense. He was never charged with rape, even though the rape kit came back positive.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is why I talk about a war on women and broken justice. Thank you, Jennifer, Tennessee.

Stay right where you are. We`re going to have more on the Five Browns` abuse right after the break.

And later, a woman narrowly escapes being brutally gang-raped. I`m going to talk to her one on one.



COOPER LAWRENCE, RADIO HOST/AUTHOR: Well, when people perpetuate these crimes, these crimes against -- especially against children, it would never occur to them that, at some point in their life, they were going to have to answer for this, especially a family like this where they`re celebrities. And we assign qualities to celebrities where everything`s great and wonderful, which is why nobody would have seen the warning signs; nobody would even think to look for it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Seen here on YouTube. OK? We`re talking about the long-awaited justice with a classical music group, the Five Browns.

As a judge tells their father, "I do believe you are a pedophile. I do believe you are a danger to society." And throws him in the slammer for ten years to life.

Here`s my take. This really shows there is no profile of a predator. This dad of these prodigies is a handsome guy. He`s got five successful kids. He`s married. He`s a Mormon. He drives a Porsche. On the surface, this guy seems like the most upstanding, clean-cut citizen.

Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor with the sex crimes unit, he`s the exact opposite of our stereotype of a child predator, right?

HONOWITZ: Yes. I mean, everybody believes that the pedophile is down there with a trench coat, naked. Then the van at the end of the street waiting for a child. The bottom line is I`ve been saying this for years. There is no profile.

When I lecture, I speak to people all the time. You`ll never know if there`s a janitor at the school, the teacher at the school, the nanny, the driver, rich, poor, black, white, Jewish, Catholic. It makes no difference. Sex crimes has no boundaries.

So in this case, the bottom line was, people would never expect this person. But I`m here to tell you, it could be anybody. And that`s why you need to educate your children.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just days after he was charged with the sexual abuse of his daughters, Keith Brown and his wife, Lisa, were in a near deadly car accident. He was allegedly speeding his Porsche when it crashed and flew into a canyon. The couple was knocked unconscious. Keith Brown woke up and called 911.

There`s speculation it was some sort of half-hearted suicide attempt because of this scandal.

Dr. Judy, what about the mother of these children? These prodigies and his wife? My gosh. Imagine what she`s going through.

KURIANSKY: Absolutely. The wives, the mother of these young girls. And the mothers of all the incest survivors are devastated. Why didn`t they protect their children?

And in this particular case, the three daughters all shared this horrible abuse. But there are two other silent survivors/victims here. And those are the two boys. Because there were Five Browns, as we saw in those photographs. Two young men who also, along with the mother, are thinking, why didn`t they notice this? How could they have not stopped it? Why didn`t they protect their -- the girls?

And so this is what goes on in the family. The fathers are very clever. They threaten the girls not to tell. Oftentimes, there are signs. The girls become promiscuous, or they have eating disorders. But sometimes it`s hidden very well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: These kids seemed so perfect. And again, the charges about oral sex and fondling. This is horrific stuff.

Elizabeth, Michigan, a quick comment. We are almost out of time.

CALLER: Yes, I was abused when I was 8 to 10 years old by my grandfather. And you`re right. There is no profiling of people. These people don`t show that they are that. And this man serves life in prison, in prison for life for doing this to his daughters, because...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. I agree.

Stacey Honowitz, I don`t like ten years to life. That always means probably ten years and two months. And our justice system is broken. We`ve got people serving 20 years for a little bit of crack. And this guy molests three daughters and goes away ten years to life. It`s wrong.

Up next, an astounding story of attempted rape.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Battling (ph) back in the War on Women: I`ll talk live tonight to a woman who says she narrowly escaped being brutally gang- raped by a group of men. Now she is ready to tell her story to ISSUES.

Plus, superstar singer Rihanna`s shocking sex interview. After years of alleged abuse at the hands of her dad and then a beating from ex- boyfriend Chris Brown, why is Rihanna saying she enjoys S&M sex? Is she setting a bad example for how women should be treated? You will not believe some of her jaw-dropping statements.

I`m taking your calls.


RECY TAYLOR, RAPE VICTIM: If you tell anybody that we blindfolded you, and take you to the woods; if you tell anybody, we`re going to kill you wherever we find you.

I left my baby home with my husband. If you let me go home, I won`t tell nobody. But as soon as I got out, I told it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That woman endured a horrific gang-rape when she was only 24 years old. No one was ever brought to justice. And she wasn`t the only one.

Tonight we`re going to hear from another brave woman who narrowly escaped being gang-raped. And she never got any justice. These two women barely survived the war on women. They lived in a time when women were subjected to terrible discrimination beyond belief; treated as if they were nothing. And when they were targeted by rapists, people often looked the other way.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two police men took me down on the railroad and had all types of sex relations with her at that particular time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Twenty-four-year-old Recy Taylor was kidnapped at gunpoint by seven white men as she walked home from church in Abbeville, Alabama back in 1944. We`re talking 67 years ago.

She was raped by six of them and dumped by the side of the road. Eyewitnesses saw them kidnap her, wielding knives and guns. Eyewitnesses saw it -- saw them drive off. But two all-white all-male juries refused to indict and cops bungled the investigation. Those rapists walked free. They were never held accountable.

After all these years, 91-year-old Recy Taylor is finally getting an apology from the state of Alabama. Those rapists will never pay, however, for what they did. And sadly in 2011, we still have protests like this one. Women trying to convince our justice system, take rape seriously please; proof that our war on women is no close, nowhere close to ending.

Straight out to two very special guests: author, Danielle McGuire who wrote about Recy Taylor in her amazing book, "At the Dark End of the Street"; and Mary Ellen Noone who almost suffered the very same fate as Recy Taylor. Thank you both so much for being here.

I`m going to start with Mary Ellen. Tell us what happened to you back in 1955; just over a half a century. How did you escape your would be rapist? What happened that day?

MARY ELLEN NOONE, NARROWLY ESCAPED BEING RAPED: I was walking home from school. I must have been around 12 years old. I was walking home from school late one afternoon after practice. And my mother had always, and most mothers during that time, taught their daughters survival skills; things to do, if in fact you were attacked because there was a sort of terrorist type of attitude toward white men during that time.

But as a result of that I was coming down the street. The guys saw me and u-turned. My mother always said if you see white men running after you, run up on someone`s porch as though you live on that house.

I ran up on the porch and banged on the lady`s door. And she said, "Who is it?" I said, "Some white men are trying to attack me." She came to the door with a shotgun. Shot up in the air. And they ran off.

So that was why I was not raped at that time. However, for every attack on a black woman that was a near miss there were so many that were raped.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to give you an idea of when all this was going on. Here`s a time line.

Women were given the right to vote only in 1919. Ok? Recy Taylor was raped in 1944, 67 years ago. Mary Ellen Noone, the woman you just heard from a second ago, barely escaped her rape in 1955; 1955 -- that`s the very same year that Rosa Parks, famously refused to give up her bus seat to a white person. And of course, Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated in 1968.

So Mary Ellen Noone lived in Montgomery all this time. She knows other women who were raped during that era.

Let`s to go Danielle McGuire, the author of the amazing book, "At the Dark End of the Street" who documents this. People who didn`t live in that time might have a very hard time understanding what it was like; explain it to us.

DANIELLE MCGUIRE, AUTHOR, "AT THE DARK END OF THE STREET": It was a time of fear and black women were vulnerable at every moment. From slavery to the better part of the 20th century, white men in a segregated south abducted and assaulted black women with alarming regularity, stunning uniformity and so often, with impunity.

They lured black women and girls away from home with promises of work or better wages. They attack them on the job. They harassed them and sexually humiliated them on buses and in street cars and in other public spaces.

But this is the thing. Black women often spoke out. They testified about these assaults decades before the women`s movement. And their testimonies helped launch civil rights campaigns and helped launch campaigns to protect their womanhood.

So we know about the story of Recy Taylor because she talked about it. She told somebody. We`re here today because of her courage and her tenacity in trying to receive justice.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And remember, there was an apology, an official apology to that woman there. That`s the reason we`re covering this story is that the authorities in Alabama are recognizing that justice was not served. We`re not just pulling this out of thin air.

This is an historic moment where she is really acknowledged as a victim who was not -- was denied justice, essentially.

MCGUIRE: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The men who raped Recy Taylor will never see a day of jail; six of them have already died and Recy Taylor`s brother says he lost track of the seventh about three years ago.

Again, two all-white all-male juries refused to indict the men who raped her and cops mishandled the investigation. There`s official acknowledgment of that. So no surprise, all the rapists went free.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, 67 years later, the state of Alabama apologizing and saying it made a mistake.

Midwin Charles, here`s my big issue: a jury of your peers? What happened with these grand juries? They`re all-while, all-male. What happened to the women grand jurors? What happened to the African-American grand jurors?

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If there were grand jurors at that time that were women or African-American; I mean you have to remember a lot of times women weren`t picked to sit on juries or what have you. But, you know, this is not surprising.

And I actually am impressed that the state of Alabama issued this apology. It is about time. It is decades late. But I`m glad they did it, you know, to have the state step up to the plate and acknowledge the horror that this woman has gone through. I think it is great.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rosa Parks. The first lady of civil rights came to Recy`s defense. Parks, who again famously in 1955 refused to give up her seat -- there she is -- on a bus to a white man launched a mass letter writing campaign to make the state investigate Taylor`s rape.

Rosa Parks sent this letter to the governor urging him to reconvene the grand jury in order to indict the suspects. So once again, Danielle McGuire, why did none of this have any impact, do you think?

MCGUIRE: Well, it was the time period. We have to remember this was a segregated south. It was a time in which white supremacy ruled. They didn`t really believe that black women could be raped. I mean black women were hardly considered human.

So you know, when this happened, no one was about to indict the white assailants, even though they confessed to the crime and admitted to doing it. All they had to do was smear her; they called her a prostitute. They accused her of being a bad woman, you know.

So that`s how they got away with it because people just assumed these things about black women which were untrue. Recy Taylor was a good Christian woman.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She was coming home from church, as a matter of fact, Recy was, this lady, when she was attacked. She was married and she was a church-going --

MCGUIRE: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- respectable citizen but they did paint her to be something very different after she made those charges.

MCGUIRE: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Mary Ellen Noone, you narrowly escaped sexual assault. You say you know somebody who actually was sexually assaulted, a woman?

NOONE: I do.


NOONE: There was a young girl, who at the time, she was 15 years old. Same kind of scenario: on her way home from school, a great kid; A, B honor roll and that. Two men accosted her and threw her in a field and raped her and left her there to die. Where her parents knew that she was to be home before dark and they went looking for her. When they saw her, they knew she had been raped.

They took her to police headquarters. The same thing like Danielle just said they turned it around as though she was a prostitute and she was a really good kid. As a result, this child was pregnant with the rapist`s child.


NOONE: The child was raised --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Things have changed. We`re so happy that things have changed. The story of -- that you`re telling of your experience happened the very year I was born, 1955. So hats off to you, Mary Noone and Danielle McGuire for sharing these incredible stories.

I`m so glad thing have changed in that time -- in my lifetime.

Coming up next, Rihanna`s shocking tell-all sex interview; she says girls just want to have fun but you will not believe her jaw-dropping interview about S&M.


RIHANNA, SINGER: Girls just want to have fun by Cyndi Lauper because girls really do want to have fun, whether they`re blonde, a black head or a red head. We all just want to have fun.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But is fun getting spanked? We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. It`s a shocker.

Now, this weekend, HLN welcomes Dr. Drew to the family. Our special presentation, Dr. Drew, the HLN interview airs Sunday night starting at 6:00 p.m. and don`t miss Dr. Drew`s big first show Monday, April 4th at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on HLN.





VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s the latest hot song from pop singer Rihanna -- she`s one of the world`s biggest super stars. But songs about whips and chains plus the current cover story of Rolling Stone magazine have brought up some very troubling questions.

In the interview, Rihanna admits to enjoying pain, calling herself a masochist, sympathizing with her abusive father and insisting she likes to be spanked. And let`s put in it context. Remember this picture? It`s Rihanna after she was beaten up by her then boyfriend, R&B star, Chris Brown.

So, this young woman is a repeated victim of abuse but now she is publicly touting an S&M life style? By the way, that stands for sadomasochism?

What`s going on here? What`s this all about? Straight out to my fantastic panel: domestic violence survivor, Brenda Clubine; also here, pop culture commentator and one-time Rihanna interviewer, Bevy Smith.

We begin with Ian Drew, he is the senior music editor for "US Weekly". Ian, tell us about this shocking interview with Rihanna.

IAN DREW, SENIOR MUSIC EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Well, some of it we`ve heard before but we haven`t heard it quite so recently. I mean she`s really hasn`t done a lot of interviews lately. I mean for her last album she did very few things. Now she did "Vogue", now "Rolling Stone". And a lot of what she`s saying is very shocking.

I have to admit I heard the album for the very first listening -- I actually reviewed. And I actually loved the album. But the first song "S&M" that kicks off the album is a little shocking from someone who was linked to a domestic abuse. She talks about enjoying being beaten, enjoying being whipped.

It is funny. It`s cheeky. It`s a sort of take on S&M. But you know given her past it was a little eyebrow raising.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It is in the context of what happened to her that make it ultra shocking.

DREW: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Rihanna`s cover of "Rolling Stone" and the new single, ok, shocking. But it is even more to me disturbing these revelations about her kinky sex life in the context of what happened to her, the beating. She tells the magazine, S&M is something she enjoys personally in the bedroom. Quote, "I like to be spank and being tied up is fun." That`s a quote.

DREW: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She also says sometimes whips and chains can be overly planned. I would rather have him use his hands.

Brenda Clubine, you were convicted for killing your abusive husband. I see this as a huge red flag, given the fact that Rihanna was horrifically beaten to the point where -- and I`m holding the arrest affidavit -- blood formed in her mouth and spilled all over her clothing and the interior of the vehicle. There is the photo of her beaten face after her beating by Chris. Your thoughts.

BRENDA CLUBINE, CONVICTED FOR KILLING ABUSIVE HUSBAND: You know, the problem is that she is sending mixed messages. She was a victim. And I think because she was a victim, she doesn`t want people to see her as such. And because of the world that she lives in and her celebrity, she wants to make light of it.

And I don`t think -- I cannot believe for a minute that this young lady wants to tout and spread that she is a sadomasochist? I don`t believe that for a minute. I think it`s a way to --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You don`t believe it? I do. I believe it.

DREW: I don`t either.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second. One of Rihanna`s most stunning revelations in this "Rolling Stone" article: her alleged addiction to pain. She tells the magazine, "I do think I`m a bit of a masochist." She continues to say, "I don`t want to say I`m turned on by it but I`m turned on by it."

Rihanna says her addiction to pain might be the reason behind all the tattoos. She`s already got 14 of them; everything from a skull with a pink hair bow on her Achilles` to a pistol on her rib cage.

Now, I want to go to Bevy Smith, pop culture commentator. You`ve actually interviewed Rihanna. What do you make of this? Does it disturb you?

BEVY SMITH, POP CULTURE COMMENTATOR: It doesn`t really disturb me because at the end of the day, she is in the entertainment business. Rihanna is here to sell records. To sell magazine covers. You know, when I interviewed she said that she had a goal of becoming the black Madonna.

Certainly she is away on that track. You know what I mean -- because she has the salacious content of the music, now her interviews. You look at the pop culture landscape right now. You have Gaga with meat suits and coming out of eggs.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I find that disgusting, too, and I said it right here ISSUES. It was repulsive. I was a fan until she did that; Gaga in the trash bin after that.

SMITH: Yes. But here`s the thing. If you have to compete against someone like a Lady Gaga, you can`t just come out and like make good music and you`ll sell millions of records. No.

You have to give people some controversy. You have to give them some sizzle and nothing sizzles like sex. Sex sells. It always has, it always will. So that`s the message.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand that. But given her history that she was beaten to the point that blood gushed out of her mouth and she had a battering on her face, of all the messages to send. Why that one?

SMITH: Then she is healed. She had healed. She has moved on. She want to us move on. And she wants us to know --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. What about the kids listening to this?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Callers on the other side.



CHERYL BURKE, "DANCING WITH THE STARS": It really reminds me of my abuse and the relationships that I had, especially in high school. And I`m very sensitive towards that. And I write about it in my book. And, you know, I just feel like it`s something that women can really relate to my experiences. And I just feel like, you know, people shouldn`t ignore what happened.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was "Dancing with the Stars" dancer, Cheryl Burke, speaking out about convicted abuser Chris Brown`s appearance on that show. To watch the full interview tune in tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern for "THE JOY BEHAR SHOW".

And we`re back talking about Rihanna`s shocking interview with "Rolling Stone" magazine. Her love of S&M; her new video is called S&M. Check it out.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s got a rocking beat all right, but what about the message?

Melissa, Alabama, what`s your question or thought ma`am?

MELISSA, ALABAMA (via telephone): Jane, this is Melissa from Birmingham, Alabama. First of all, I love you. And thank you for being a survivor, fighting for survivors, and animal rights.


MELISSA: But Debbie touched on basically -- the previous caller with what I wanted to say. Rihanna has so many followers, I mean, I love her myself, but she`s really sending a message that violence is ok.


MELISSA: And, you know, I just think that it`s -- I don`t know, it`s very disappointing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I agree with you, Melissa. And thank you for your support. If it were Lady Gaga or Madonna talking about sex toys and being spanked, we might say it`s part of the shtick. So people are asking, well, why is it shocking then for Rihanna? Is there a double standard?

Well, that`s my big issue. To me, it`s a creepy contrast with Rihanna because she grew up in an abuse of family. And then there`s this picture where she`s beaten. She was bruised and beaten and battered by her ex- boyfriend, Chris Brown.

Ok. Let`s go back to the police report, the police affidavit. Chris Brown punched Rihanna`s right eye, then punched her left eye; powerful blows that caused her mouth to fill with blood. And that spattered all over her clothing.

This is my question, Bevy. I`m getting back to you because you seem to think it`s all PR. But of all people I think shouldn`t be doing this particular message is a woman who has seen the downside of violence with an intimate partner.

SMITH: I agree that it is a lot to take, because of her situation with Chris Brown. But here`s the thing, she`s 23 years old. She`s a legal consenting adult. She`s free to make the kind of music that she wants to.

Obviously she wants to go down this road. Whether we agree with it or not, this is what she`s going to do because she knows that it`s going to help her sell records.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a sad commentary on American society. And Brenda Clubine, we can`t just blame her; we`ve got to look at what the heck is our society all about today that she`s rewarded for this.

SMITH: Sex sells.

CLUBINE: Absolutely. One of the problems, though, too, is that our society in general, it`s indicative of everything; all the music, the movies, everything that`s going on. But what`s even more shocking than her song is that she has asked the judge to stop the restraining order against Chris Brown. I believe he`s having anger issues.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re out of time. But it was a lively debate, that`s for sure.

Hold on.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We live in a world that is saturated with sexually- charged violence. We see it on TV, in the movies, video games. I want to go back to Bevy Smith, pop culture commentator. Are you concerned at all at the message that Rihanna`s statements and video sends to kids, her fans, about the connection between sex and violence?

SMITH: Ok. Well, I have a lot of relationships with children. And what I know for sure is that we take them for granted in the way that we think that they don`t really know what`s going on. They know the difference between music and entertainment and real life.

I don`t think any kid that`s out there is listening to Rihanna`s music and going to go out and try to find an abusive boyfriend because Rihanna says she likes S&M. No, I don`t think that`s going to happen. I think we`re overly cautious when it comes to that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, you`ve made your argument. I don`t know if I agree with you, but I love debating. And thank you for being on.

SMITH: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nancy Grace up next.