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NANCY GRACE

Cops Search Residential Community for More Bodies Near Long Island Beach

Aired April 5, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. An off-duty cop walking his dog stumbles on a woman`s dead body on a remote beach, that beach turned burial ground when three more sets of female remains found. Investigators unearth four more bodies on that same stretch of beach, bringing the tally likely to nine female bodies, the number climbing.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, the search for even more women`s bodies expands. It grows into an upscale beachside gated residential community. Tonight, a team of highly sensitive cadaver dogs and dozens of police recruits literally combing the beach and an exclusive gated beachside community for more bodies. At this hour, investigators cordoning the beach`s main parkway, stopping traffic to scour a seven-mile stretch of sandy beach.

Has the killer been targeting women on Craigslist? Are there e-mail clues? As property values plummet after the bodies of nearly a dozen women discovered, some million-dollar homes on the market at half price. Are dozens more murdered women dumped like trash on the same stretch of beach, waiting to be uncovered? Tonight, who`s the killer, the killer stalking young women, locals and tourists alike?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eight bodies.

GRACE: The tally to eight female bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More bodies have turned up in what police may suspect may be a major serial killer case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a car pulled up and opened the door, and the bodies were dumped into the bushes.

GRACE: Does nobody see this guy dump bodies apparently straight out of his car?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This area is pitch black, so it is so easy for someone to pull over in a car, pull out a body from the trunk and dump it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More bodies found stuffed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Buried here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within a quarter of a mile of each other, dumped them in the same place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are investigating the discovery of several bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are wondering if they have a serial killer on their hands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re looking at that we could have a serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s so certain that they will ever catch this person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it going to be more bodies found?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police will be searching all through the night with investigators around the clock. Will there be more bodies to be found?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a convicted child molester with a long history of attacks on children set to walk free because of a legal loophole. No!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Money Hiram Johnson (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A convicted sex offender.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is an obvious danger to society.

GRACE: Facing 21 counts of child rape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Johnson has been deemed incompetent to stand trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will not stand trial on the charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could be a free man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Running (ph) the street (ph).

GRACE: They`re just letting him go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me repeat.

GRACE: Twenty-one counts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rape, sodomy and aggravated sex abuse of a child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is going to be on the loose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turn him loose. It just boggles my mind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can`t be prosecuted and can`t be detained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has a mental illness and that he is a danger to society.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The decision is up to the judge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Release him and hope for the best. Well, why do our children have to hope for the best?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s outrageous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can a convicted child molester not be deemed a danger to society? This is crazy!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A remote beach turned burial ground after eight sets of female remains discovered, the number likely rising. Tonight, who is the serial killer stalking young women, local and tourists alike? In the last hour, the search for even more bodies expands into an upscale beachside residential community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They now have eight bodies total.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New bodies, more bodies found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s still a crime scene. Nobody is allowed in there.

GRACE: We have a serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bodies discovered within a quarter of a mile from each other.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Horrible discovery.

GRACE: They`re all about five feet tall. They`re all about 100 pounds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m holding a burlap bag in my hand. It`s a pretty large sack, which absolutely can house somebody of my size.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police had originally gone there looking for Shannan Gilbert.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search continues for her and anyone else that may have been dumped near the beach.

GRACE: How many more will turn up in the same quarter-mile stretch of sand?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven`t given up on the search for Shannan Gilbert.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shannan Gilbert knocked on a neighbor`s door, begging for help, saying that she was terrified for her life, frantically pounding on his door.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was running in Oak Beach. She was screaming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Went running down the road once again, vanishing into the night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her last phone call was 23 minutes to 911 when she was grabbed and pulled into the truck. The police missed her by five minutes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live on the scene. You just saw Shannan Gilbert`s mother, Mari Gilbert, on ABC`s "Good Morning America." We are taking your calls.

Straight out to Rupa Mikkilineni. The search has now expanded. It`s no longer just along that few miles, four to seven miles of sandy beach. It is now in an upscale gated beach residential community. What about it, Rupa?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. Right behind me, you can see this area. It`s an upscale gated community, 80 homes, approximately. It`s called the Oak Beach Association, Home Association. Like I said, 80 homes here. And this is the area, right behind me, where Shannan Gilbert, 24 years old, was last seen May 1st.

And just in tonight, Nancy, we now know that the three bodies found just yesterday up the street right here about two miles up are not Shannan Gilbert. So where is Shannan Gilbert, Nancy, is the question tonight.

GRACE: Well, I`ve got a pretty good idea, Rupa Mikkilineni. She`s either in that exclusive beachside gated community, or she`s out there in one of the sandy ditches alongside the other women. They just haven`t found her yet.

And Rupa, I`m starting to analyze the way the women are buried. They are equidistant from each other. They are all disposed of in the exact same manner. All identifying markers or tags are gone. There`s no clothes, ID, phones, pocketbooks, jewelry, nothing to connect them and their life before their murder. It`s very ritualistic, the way they are laid out in the same way, and most importantly, in my mind, equidistant from each other.

MIKKILINENI: Absolutely right, Nancy. Those first four bodies, which have been identified as four young women between the ages of 20 and 25, were found last December, and absolutely each body was laid out equidistant, about 500 yards from each other. Now, police are being very tight-lipped about these last four bodies found, the one last week and then the ones found yesterday, of course. But we also understand that they were found in the area just about two miles away, and we`re talking about the same four-mile spread of beach, Nancy.

GRACE: Everyone, we are live on the scene and we are taking your calls. Out to Al Jones, reporter with 1010 WINS. Now three more bodies have been added to the tally of dead women found along one stretch of beach. Tonight, that stretch expands into a gated community. Now those plummeting sales on the homes in that community. Who wants to buy a home when there`s dead women`s bodies found all around the beach? We`re showing you different shots of the women that we know so far have been found, but now that number rising.

To Al Jones, what more can you tell me?

AL JONES, 1010 WINS (via telephone): Well, I can tell you that another thing that depressed home values would be the two dozen police recruits and three cadaver dogs that have been combing the heavy brush and the dunes along Ocean Parkway. That`s a four-mile stretch of parkway from Gilgo Beach to Oak Beach, where the community is, the gated community. High winds today preventing helicopters and fire department bucket trucks from being used, but police say the search now expanded to both sides of that divided highway, beach on both sides.

GRACE: The women, locals and tourists alike, they are not all natives of the area. We are hearing that at this hour, investigators are using tiny plastic bags in which they are putting evidence, that evidence likely the hundreds of bones in the human body, the bones being scattered now, the bodies of possibly nine women along that stretch of sandy beach, all of them startlingly similar in their physical appearance. And tonight, a link to Craigslist. All the women apparently active on Craigslist. Is the killer trolling for dates, trolling for love on Craigslist, those potential dates turning into murder victims?

And also, at this hour, Rupa Mikkilineni, we have no idea the COD, cause of death, do we?

MIKKILINENI: We do not, Nancy. We have no idea. They have not released the cause of death. But what we do is that there is some similarity between these how these women were found, where they were found. And of course, let`s not forget, Nancy. The four of those bodies found last December were found wrapped in burlap sacks -- that`s right, burlap sacks, Nancy, which does seem to be a common modus operandi.

GRACE: Many of these young women are mothers. Some trained as a hair stylist. One wants to open a beauty is salon, a single mom, another from Connecticut, a mother of two, another one married, one previously married. The list goes on and on, the descriptions so different, but all of them looking very, very similar.

Back to you, Rupa Mikkilineni, joining us there at Oak Beach. Why is the search expanding into a gated residential community?

MIKKILINENI: Right, Nancy. We learned yesterday, as well as today, searchers were here all day right behind me in the Oak Beach gated community. And the reason is that Shannan Gilbert, who sparked this investigation -- and if you may recall, 23-year-old Shannan Gilbert from New Jersey, went missing May 1st. That was the last time any of her family members or friends heard from her. And May 1st, she had an appointment with a man that she met on Craigslist right here, who has a home, a summer home in this area behind me.

Now, she went screaming from his house, seemed to be very worried, confused. She knocked on two neighbors` homes in this area, said that she was in danger for her life, very, very confused, you know, calling police. She had her mobile phone in her hand. She was on the phone with police, apparently. Then the neighbor said, We`ll call 911, then she ran out of these neighbors` homes and ran out of here and ran down the beach, and they didn`t see her again. She vanished into thin air, Nancy.

GRACE: The search expanding from a strip of beautiful, pristine beach now into a gated residential community, the tally of women`s bodies rising, locals and tourists alike. And they`re from so many different places, one from Connecticut, one from New Jersey, all found here on this stretch of lonely beach. As we go to air, the search going on for even more bodies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Search teams here on the ground with K9 units and helicopters searched and three more bodies found. They have not been identified, but this adding to the body count, which is now at eight bodies, four of whom were identified as young women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Are dozens more murdered women dumped like trash!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More bodies found, in addition to the five bodies we`d already learned were discovered.

GRACE: On the same strip of beach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police vehicle was driving by this Ocean Parkway highway and something caught his eye.

GRACE: Waiting to be uncovered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She looks at him (ph) on the picture that`s on her wall in her bedroom. Where`s my Mommy? Why did they do this to her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s still a crime scene. Nobody is allowed in there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are looking for many more bodies.

GRACE: We have a serial killer that is stalking local and tourists alike.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re about 25 to 30 yards off the highway, in very thick brush. They believe it is someone who knows the area.

GRACE: He`s going to get caught sooner or later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: As we go to air, the search expands from a local strip of pristine beach, a very exclusive beachfront community, to a private gated residential community, the houses well up into the millions. Tonight, police recruits and cadaver dogs shoulder to shoulder, combing the beach and the gated community, looking for more dead bodies as that toll rises. The women, locals and tourists alike, all have this link. They look startling similar, physically, some of them mothers, some not, some from local areas, some beyond, and all of them active on Craigslist. Was the killer or is the killer trolling for love and murder victims on line?

We are taking your calls. To Tim in California. Hi, Tim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, basically, as I was saying, is what is this guy doing? Is he -- is he -- is he doing it for fun? Is he doing it for -- what -- is he trustworthy (ph)? I mean, is he going to be found? How many more bodies are going to be found on the beach?

GRACE: Well, Tim, I really believe that there are more bodies, all right? The more they look -- every time they expand the search, Tim in California, they find more bodies. If they carry this search north and south, east and west, I guarantee you, there are more remains. Will they be found? I don`t know. But as we go to air, police recruits, law enforcement and cadaver dogs there looking for more women`s bodies.

To Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler," joining me out of the nation`s capital tonight. Who is he and what is he doing, Pat Brown?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Nancy, this is a sexual sadist. He is finding his great marks on Craigslist. And think about this. If he were in that gated community and you were a girl talking to him, you wouldn`t be worried about going there because it`s a nice place, and nice men don`t do things like that to women. So they may have felt very safe, and that`s the way he can pull them into his little web.

GRACE: You know, at first, I was looking at the -- where the original phone calls came from. But those people, you know, that were calling police, that were cooperating with police, have been apparently cleared. We don`t know are these women being lured there? Are they there already? Do they run into the killer there at the beach? Are they back in that residential community? Pat Brown, Tim`s question -- why is he doing it? What do you think?

BROWN: Well, Tim is absolutely correct. It`s a lot of fun. He gets a lot of power and control over doing this. And by bringing the women back to his place -- and I do believe he`s doing that because sexual sadists don`t just want a 10-minute little quickie with this girl, raping and murdering her, he wants to bring her back and do horrible things, torture her, whatever he`s going to do there. He wants the privacy. So he`s got to have a place to bring them back to. So that`s his big thrill is controlling those women for a long period of time.

GRACE: Back to Al Jones with 1010 WINS. The bodies found on the beach and now possibly in a residential community just off the beach have quite the timeline. The killer is striking every couple of weeks -- July 9, July 12, May 1, June 6th, September 2, December 11, December 13, April 4. This is the timeline of when they are being found. But when do they go missing, Al Jones?

JONES: Well, some of these people have been missing for just a matter of months. Many of them went missing last year, and their bodies turned up in December. The four that were most recently discovered, we haven`t really heard much about when they were -- went missing. We did hear, though, from the police commissioner that he believed that the bodies had been there for quite a period of time. And they`re still trying to determine who these people are and when they went missing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears you have a serial killer dumping bodies along this stretch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s a coincidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police wonder if they now have a serial killer on their hands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there are any more bodies out there, we want to find them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. At this hour, police cadets and cadaver dogs, highly sensitive cadaver dogs there on the scene as the search for female bodies expands from an isolated but pristine strip of beach to a gated residential beachside community.

Joining us there, Sophia Hall, WCBS Newsradio 880, along with Rupa Mikkilineni. Sophia, what are the cops doing in that gated community? What do you see?

SOPHIA HALL, WCBS NEWSRADIO 880: OK. This is a gated community. It is a serene community. There are million-dollar homes over here. But a lot of it is just rough terrain. There is poison ivy, there are ticks, there is brush. I tried to follow one of the police officers just to see what he was doing with the cadaver dog, I got all cut up on my arm. It actually is a pretty rough, rough terrain out here, Nancy.

GRACE: So they are out there searching by hand, practically shoulder to shoulder, with cadaver dogs, looking. But to your knowledge, Sophia Hall -- Sophia joining us from CBS Newsradio, 880 -- what led them to this gated community to look for more bodies?

HALL: What led them? Shannan Gilbert, the 24-year-old woman who was actually at a home right behind me. She went running and screaming for help. She called 911 apparently for over half an hour. Police were out here in 45 minutes, which is a long time, because she was telling them she was in Jones Beach, which is about 10 miles from here. But this is Oak Beach where we are, and they just couldn`t find her. She also went to a neighbor`s house. He called 911. She has not been heard from since.

GRACE: That one call tipped off an investigation that has now led to eight and counting female bodies. And what is so unusual -- to Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist -- is the bodies are actually discarded, hidden equidistant, very formulaic, very intentionally done, from each other. They are all laid to rest in the same manner by their killer.

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, I think this is a very smart sociopath who`s very obsessive-compulsive and wants to do it perfectly. There are no identifications. They`re measured distances. This is a very, very sick individual who`s into power and domination because he feels so powerless -- very twisted.

GRACE: And to Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, Burlington County, New Jersey, joining us out of Philly today. Dr. Manion, are we going to be able to determine cause of death?

DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Yes, I think so. It`ll take some time, but they`ll be able to figure out what caused their deaths I`m sure.

GRACE: How about if there`s no soft tissue left, Doctor? What about that?

MANION: Well, they`ll do X-rays first, checking for any projectiles, ends of a knife. They`ll then be looking at the bones carefully to see if there`s any fractures, you know, examining the critical areas, the neck, the cervical vertebrae. And if any tissue remains, we`ll also get some toxicology results.

GRACE: At this hour, police, cadets and cadaver dogs still searching for more female bodies. So far, the count eight women murdered, their bodies strewn along an isolated beach. But now police focus on a gated...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: At this hour, police cadets and cadaver dogs are combing an isolated and pristine beach, but now their search for more female bodies has expanded into a gated community.

We are taking your calls live. Straight out to Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer there at Oak Beach and the new search area.

How are the residents responding to police cadets, police officers and cadaver dogs tromping around in the backyards?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. This has been a tough time for residents in this area. This area is terrorized because they believe that there`s a potential serial killer on the loose. Eight new bodies, the body count keeps rising, Nancy. And they`re terrified.

And police officers keep returning to this area right behind me. They returned yesterday, they returned today, and this is not the first or second time that this area has been searched, Nancy.

This was searched in December. This has been searched periodically. Not to mention in the initial search was, in fact, the home of this individual or this man that Shannon Gilbert had had an appointment with.

So they did forensic testing. They searched inside and outside of this home, then -- and of course, they cleared this individual completely, so afterwards, they moved their search and expanded to other areas, to other homes, to the brush, to the heavy, thick brush in this area. Looking, searching for anything. Because Shannon Gilbert went missing in this area.

GRACE: Joining me right now from Ellenville, New York, is Sherre Gilbert. This is Shannon Gilbert`s sister.

Sherre, you and I have talked on occasions before about the possibility that one of these women is going to be your sister, but as of tonight, amazingly and ironically, none of them are Shannon.

SHERRE GILBERT, SHANNON GILBERT`S SISTER, WAS TOLD THAT REMAINS FOUND TODAY MAY BE HER MISSING SISTER: Yes, it`s just crazy. I didn`t think that it was going to really come down to this.

GRACE: When you say you did not think it would not come down to this, what do you mean by that?

GILBERT: Well, when we first found out in December that the first body that they had found could have been hers, we had already prepared ourselves. And we were just hoping that the search would come to an end, however it may be. You know, we just don`t know where she is at this point, and we don`t want her to suffer. We don`t want to be -- we don`t want her to be lost somewhere and not ever found.

GRACE: Sherre, do you recall the last time you spoke to her?

GILBERT: I do. The last time I spoke to her was April 28th, 2010.

GRACE: And what were you talking about?

GILBERT: We were making plans for her to come upstate and she was going to come for Mother`s Day and then come again for our nephew`s birthday.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Kathy in Indiana. Hi, Kathy.

KATHY, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?

KATHY: Well, my question is, what really concerns me is that all the bodies they`ve mentioned have already -- are bones. How long does it take a body to decompose, because they haven`t found any recent ones? Aren`t they afraid that this man has already moved on to another area?

GRACE: Well, one of the women, it goes back, as far as we know, goes missing July 2007, the next one -- June, July 2009. May 2010, June 2010, September 2010, December 2010, December 2010, April 2011.

I mean, they are being -- they are going missing every few weeks. And here we see a gap in the times that these people have gone missing. There are other bodies in these interim times.

You know, I think I`m going to throw this out to Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist joining us from Florida Gulf State University.

Heather, the caller`s question is about how long it takes for these bodies to decompose, but that`s ruling out the alternative that the killer is putting them out there already, basically, skinned.

HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST, FLORIDA GULF COAST UNIVERSITY: You`re right, Nancy. We are assuming that death is occurring around this place where the remains have been found. If that`s the case, if they are put into these burlap sacks and left in this marsh area, you can have skeletal remains, oh, in Florida, within a week to 10 days, but up north, up in the northeast, it could take a year, at least, to get a complete skeleton.

GRACE: So long story short, Heather Walsh-Haney, we have heard of cases where victims are murdered then cannibalized. Their skin actually removed from them, like a modern-day Hannibal Lecter, because take a look at it. I mean if people are going missing it in late December 2010 and they`re already completely skeletonized, where`s all the soft tissue going?

WALSH-HANEY: Well, the soft tissue will literally dissolve into fluids. So, you know, the soft tissue maybe going down his drain, and then he`s placing these skeletons out there.

GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear what your last comment was. Heather, repeat.

WALSH-HANEY: What I was saying is, if he`s rendering these remains in his home or in some secret place, the soft tissue can be easily removed and it can go down a drain with the right chemicals --

GRACE: What do you mean by rendering, Heather? What do you mean if he`s rendering them -- the bodies in his home?

WALSH-HANEY: Sure. Well, so, by rendering, I mean, literally de- fleshing in his home. And there have been cases, historically, where folks have rendered bodies in bathtubs, removing the soft tissue, pouring acid on the remains, in order to get that tissue down the drain, and then taking what`s left, the skeletons, out to yet another location and secreting them away, only to be discovered later on.

GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, Burlington County, joining us out of Philly.

Dr. Manion, if there is no soft tissue, no skin, how are they getting the DNA from the roots of the teeth, the hair, from the bone marrow? Where?

DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, mainly from the long bones, the bone marrow. The bones have a strong protective outer covering. You know, they`re calcium phosphate, very strong covering, so if they break the long bones, they`ll still be able to get viable bone marrow out of there and they`ll be able to get DNA to -- extract DNA from that.

GRACE: And how long will the bone marrow, the extractable DNA in bone marrow exist?

MANION: Well, for years. They found -- anthropologists have found bodies thousands of years old and they`ve extracted bone marrow from it to try and piece together our evolution. So they`ve done it -- I think they`ve gone back 40,000, 60,000 years and actually gotten extractable DNA from these mummified remains.

GRACE: But, to Donald Schweitzer, former detective, Sta. Ana PD, even with DNA extracted from their bone marrow, it`s still a needle in a haystack, because you`ve got to have something to compare it to. Say I get the DNA out of the bones, all right? But then whose is it?

DONALD SCHWEITZER, FMR. DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: It might appears -- well, that`s for the forensic scientists. But from a police officer`s perspective, I think that the time is now on our side. He`s reared his ugly head, he`s not going to be hiding forever. We now know that he`s hiding these bodies and he`s a creature of habit. He likes to do things consistently the same way. We`ll get him.

GRACE: To Pat Brown, criminal profiler. Pat, how often do you see him striking? Will there be more bodies?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, Nancy, I don`t think there`s going to be more bodies there because he`s not that stupid. He realizes his little graveyard has been found, so he`s probably going to sit back and try to pretend he`s a wonderful citizen.

Now the question is, will he wait it out if nobody catches him and then start again or will he move from that location and, you know, move his base of operations someplace else.

GRACE: But when you don`t know a horse, look at the track record. Serial killers very rarely -- of course, Ted Bundy was different, but they stay in the same place. They may move the burial ground, but they stay put. Look at BTK, look at Gaisy. They stayed not only in the same house, same community, they don`t move. In fact BTK didn`t even bury where he got his victims. Where he buries them or hides them is different matter.

BROWN: Right. Well, it depends -- it depends on the type of serial killer. And I agree with you to this fact that if he`s a sexual sadist, he does have more of a stable lifestyle, so -- I mean that`s what they need to be looking right in that community because he`s probably just going to sit there and hope nobody is ever going to actually figure out it`s him.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Champagne, North Carolina, hi, dear, what`s your question?

CHAMPAGNE, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Nancy, I`m one of your big fans, I watch your show every day, but my question is.

GRACE: Thank you.

CHAMPAGNE: Is there a connection between all of these girls?

GRACE: Well, the fact that they look similar, they`re from -- is one of the main connecting points. But they`re from many different areas. They`re not all homegrown to that area. But they all are online. That is a common link. They`re active online. We believe the killer is trolling for victims on Craigslist.

Gloria Allred, Darryl Cohen, Ray Giudice, any advantage -- Darrel Cohen -- to him turning himself in? And could he escape the death penalty that way?

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the chances of him turning himself in are slim and none.

GRACE: Ray?

COHEN: And could he afford the -- that`s (INAUDIBLE), he`s going to get it.

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree with Darryl, but it has to be negotiated by a lawyer upfront and probably the victims` families --

GRACE: OK.

GIUDICE: -- would have to sign off on it.

GRACE: Gloria Allred?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Hope he does, but I doubt it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Lonnie Johnson is the man`s name.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Faces 20 counts of felony child sex abuse here in Utah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has a mental illness.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A judge ruled that Johnson was not competent to stand trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He does -- he is not a substantial danger to society.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty felony charges for rape, sodomy, and aggravated sex abuse of a child.

CHRISTY DANNER, DAUGHTER ALLEGEDLY SEXUALLY ASSAULTED BY SEX OFFENDER LONNIE JOHNSON: So we just wait for more victims and then he uses the same loophole?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You`d think that someone who`s incompetent would stay in a hospital, right?

DANNER: Is that what we`re being told?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Wrong.

DANNER: But how many victims do we need?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How could anyone find that someone with that record and that track record is not a substantial danger to society?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: With no trial and no civil commitment to the Utah State Hospital, prosecutors say they`ll be forced to drop this case.

GRACE: To Craig Johnson, the deputy Utah attorney, you`re fighting it. What`s the chances you can keep this guy behind bars?

CRAIG JOHNSON, DEPUTY UTAH COUNTY ATTORNEY: Well, I`m hoping that they look pretty good. We`ve had an extremely frustrating two weeks.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A convicted sex predator who preys on children set to get out on a legal loophole? There are 21 sex counts against him on children. He`s never going to answer up to those?

Out to Jim Kirkwood, talk show host, KTKK Radio.

Jim, it`s just beyond me. This guy can claim he`s incompetent and just walk out of jail.

JIM KIRKWOOD, NEWS SHOW HOST, KTKK: And they`re calling it a cognitive disorder, which cannot be treated with drugs and it`s very vague, Nancy. Extremely vague.

GRACE: Well, no, no, no, no, I`ve got to be missing something, Jim. He`s got a vague disorder? And before he gets arrested on 21 counts of child molestation, victims as young as 8 years old, he`s perfectly fine? He`s functioning in society, he`s got his own business. Actually, making a pretty good profit, and now, because he`s arrested, he`s incompetent? And they`re letting him walk? What`s incompetent?

Tell me, Jim Kirkwood. Why is this convicted child molester going to walk free?

KIRKWOOD: Because three psychiatrists at the state mental hospital said that he`s not a danger to society or to himself, Nancy.

GRACE: But why is he unable to go to trial? We had the same problem in the Elizabeth Smart case. Remember that perv and his cohort, Barzee? They claimed they were incompetent. It took two -- over two years to get them competent. Finally, they went to trial.

I don`t understand why this guy is going to walk free, Jim. I feel like I`m missing part of the picture.

KIRKWOOD: Well, the judge, Judge Taylor, the criminal judge, ruled that he wasn`t competent, and that kind of sentenced him in, unless the prosecutors are going to file a motion and change that, get the judge to change it, and then the psychiatrist said he`s no longer a danger.

And so he`s been on good behavior the last couple of years in the mental hospital, so turn him loose. That`s the situation, Nancy.

GRACE: Joining me right now is Christy Danner. Her daughter allegedly sexually assaulted by the perpetrator, Lonnie Johnson.

Miss Danner, it`s my understanding, what happened is that he`s arrested on 21 counts of child molestation, on children ages 8 to 10. Tiny girls. He claims he`s mentally incompetent to stand trial. They tried to make him competent. In other words, give him therapy and medication. One shrink tells the doctor he`s still mentally incompetent, so they`re just going to let him walk?

He claim, I`m mentally incompetent, not insane, but mentally incompetent to stand trial, and he just walks out of jail?

DANNER: That`s what we`re being told. It`s mind boggling, isn`t it?

GRACE: How are they explaining it to you, Miss Danner?

DANNER: They`re just saying that the doctors say that he can`t stand trial, because he`s mentally incompetent, and yet he isn`t a threat, because since he`s been in the state hospital, he`s been a perfect gentleman. Of course he`s not around a lot of little girls in the state hospital, so I`m sure he is.

GRACE: Well, Miss Danner, what did he do before he went to jail? Did he have a job? Did he function normally in society?

DANNER: Yes. He had his own business, a thriving business, his own home.

GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear you. He has a what now?

DANNER: He had his own business and it was a thriving business.

GRACE: What did he do for a living?

DANNER: He had -- he was a -- like a bricklayer, a stone layer. Stonework.

GRACE: And so while he`s out, he has a job, his own business, he holds that down, he functions in society, but amazingly, he becomes incompetent to stand trial? What is his so-called illness, Miss Danner? What do we know? What does he say is wrong with him?

DANNER: I haven`t really figured out what`s wrong with him. They haven`t given any specifics. So I don`t know.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Gloria Allred, Darryl Cohen, Raymond Giudice.

Gloria, I can`t believe a convicted child molester facing 21 counts of attacks on children as young as 8 years old can actually hoodwink a bunch of shrinks that he is incompetent to stand trial. Nobody said insane. They`re not releasing him to a mental home. He`s just going to walk out free.

ALLRED: Apparently he`s been there, Nancy, since 2008, in the Utah State Hospital. And so three years later -- well, so three years later, they are looking to see if he`s now competent to stand trial, apparently finding that he`s not competent to stand trial, then apparently they`ll have a civil commitment hearing to see if he can be committed, and that`s when the psychiatrist decides that he`s no longer a danger.

I`m glad they`re making a motion to review that and to see whether or not there is a basis for that or if someone else has a different opinion.

GRACE: What about it, Darryl Cohen?

COHEN: Nancy, I get it. He`s not competent to stand trial, but I don`t get how if he was not competent before, but he was able to commit all of this child molestation, that he`s not continually, completely, and forever incarcerated unless and until he is or becomes competent to stand trial. I just don`t get it.

GRACE: Ray Giudice?

GIUDICE: Yes. In Georgia we have a guilty but mentally ill statute, which would close as loophole. But can we just --

GRACE: That`s a jury verdict.

GIUDICE: That`s right, but it`s an option for the prosecution. But my point is, that the doctors have also said something that`s important. We, the doctors, will never be able to make him competent. And that`s the finding that the judge says, well, I have no choice but to release him.

GRACE: I just don`t get it. I don`t understand why they can`t go forward and get a guilty but mentally ill, not guilty by reason of insanity?

Out to April in Texas. Hi, April, what`s your question?

APRIL, CALLER FROM TEXAS: My question is, what type of mental exam did they give him and did they even look at his history? Because --

GRACE: I agree.

Leslie Austin, you`re the shrink. We`re just lawyers. I just can`t help -- the term quack comes to mind. Because if they`re going to release this guy out on the street, they`ve got to think he`s competent to fend for himself.

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Nancy, those three psychiatrists are working for the prison system. It`s in their interest to keep him incarcerated. Cognitive disorders are specific. They are not the same as insanity. And the trouble here is preventing him from committing harm. But if I had more information I could tell you exactly why he can run a business but he`s not competent to stand trial that does make sense psychologically.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Lonnie Johnson, not competent to stand trial.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty counts of felony child sex abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have victims and their families who are anxious to get justice.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can`t be prosecuted and can`t be detained.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a danger to society. It`s unconscionable that people think otherwise.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would you let this man baby-sit your child or your grandchild?

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I want to give you some phone numbers. If you don`t want this child molester to get back out on the street, here you go. Number one, to Judge James R. Taylor, phone number, 801-429-1066. The attorney general, Mark Shurtleff, phone number 801-366-0260. The governor, Gary Herbert, 801-538-1000.

Three words of guidance. Don`t be shy.

Let me tell you something. It`s absolutely wrong, Pat Brown. You know as well as I do, this guy can`t quit. He`s facing 21 counts now and he`s already got a criminal history of child molestation. He`s not going to stop but they are going to let him walk out on the street?

BROWN: Well, you know, I`ve never seen such a level of incompetence with psychiatrists. I mean they need to commit themselves for stupidity. I mean this is the -- the only disorder that this guy has got is psychopathy and did they forget to take that course or that they`ve forgotten the psychopathy course they took in their study?

Yes, unbelievable.

GRACE: The county prosecutor heading back to court to stop this travesty.

Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal John Thornton, 22, Phoenix, Arizona, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart, dreamed of being a Marine since childhood. His room filled with Marine memorabilia.

Loved baseball, soccer, karate, a second-degree black belt, taught elementary school children self-defense. Leaves behind his mother Rachel, grandparents Annie and Juan, brother Tyler, sister Rihanna.

John Thornton, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And a special good night from Illinois friends, Don and Carol, winners of the Blessings in a Backpack auction, giving meals to hungry children at school, needy children who don`t have the means to eat at home.

And tonight, help needed to pass Finding Fugitive Sex Offenders Act of 2011. Giving U.S. Marshals authority to track down unregistered sex offenders who travel state to state to avoid detection and find new victims. Contact your senators and Congress people. Tell them to help.

Go to sessions.Senate.gov. Click on recent headlines.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END