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Shocking Statistic About Cosmetic Surgery; Parents Going to Extremes

Aired April 6, 2011 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: It is Wednesday, April 6, 2011.

Here`s what`s going on.

I`m going to get to the bottom of one of the number one questions I`m asked, what women really want about sex and relationships.

Women, be honest.

Men, listen up.

We`re all going to learn something tonight.

We`ll also talk about the cult of cosmetic surgery. New stats reveal some very shocking lengths to which people will go. What does that say about us? I`ll tell you.

And publicly shaming your child -- discipline or humiliation?

Tonight, I`ll also answer your phone calls and Facebook questions.

We`re going to get it right. Let`s get started.

Welcome to the program.

And I want to start off by saying thank you for joining us. This is our third program, and I think we`re getting in some really important material here, and I really do appreciate you joining us.

For those of you for whom this is the first show, shame on you. You should have been here the last two episodes. They were pretty good.

So, again, thank you.

And also thank you for putting up with all the promotion. I want to thank HLN for that. But for those of you that have been slogging through it for the last few weeks, I`m getting sick of myself, too. So thank you for putting up with it.

So, to start out tonight, I want to talk about people who are obsessed with changing their looks. Now, a study was just released that shows that plastic surgery rates have shot up 10 percent in the past year. And the stories are really sometimes scary.

This week, we saw a woman people are calling a human Barbie doll. She holds the world`s record for the most plastic surgery. She had 52 major procedures. I kind of think that`s scary.

And then, how about a beauty-obsessed mom who actually admits that she Botoxes her 8-year-old daughter at home? Herself? I don`t know. I don`t get this. I`m worried about it.

So, first up tonight, we have got Jeannine Madsen. She`s a former Bond girl who says that going under the knife killed her career.

Now, along with Janine, we also have Dr. Paul Nassif. He`s a board- certified plastic surgeon. You might recognize him from Bravo`s "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills."

Jeannine, I want to start with you. Tell us your story. What happened?

JEANNINE MADSEN, NOSE JOB RUINED ACTING CAREER: I was a young, beautiful girl and --

PINSKY: Why did you need plastic surgery then?

You know, I had a deviated septum. And I was young, I was told that I had a big nose and low self-esteem. So, I had a procedure. And later on, I did not like that, the way --

PINSKY: So that one procedure that wasn`t good, so you went for another and another and another.


PINSKY: Dr. Nassif, is that a common story?

DR. PAUL NASSIF, BEVERLY HILLS PLASTIC SURGEON: Unfortunately, I hear that all the time.

PINSKY: Where people go for multiple procedures?

NASSIF: It really depends. Again, there are so many reasons why someone might do that. Maybe it is a botched surgery the first time, or there might be other things happening, whether maybe it`s a little bit of body dysmorphic disorder or being unrealistic.

PINSKY: Well, that`s what it sounds like. Well, why don`t we define what that is?

Because, Dr. Nassif, that`s my concern, is that many people have what is called a body dysmorphic disorder.

MADSEN: Absolutely.

PINSKY: And we`re used to hearing about that when it pertains to things like eating disorders. But the reality, body dysmorphia is focused on the face. Isn`t it?

NASSIF: Unfortunately, yes.

PINSKY: And so, we don`t really think of it, we don`t educate our patients about that.

And another thing that strikes me, Dr. Nassif -- I don`t want to take on too much at once here, but -- so there`s body dysmorphia that doesn`t get addressed, and it sounds like maybe that`s what you had to begin with.

MADSEN: No. That`s not it, no.

PINSKY: No? OK. We`ll get to your story in just a second.

But the other thing, I just read a piece here that says you`re a board-certified plastic surgeon. People at home don`t even know what that means. They don`t know what a cosmetic surgeon is, they don`t know what a board-certified -- they don`t the difference between an ENT and a dermatologist and a general surgeon who does plastics.

How does a consumer differentiate amongst all these things?

NASSIF: Drew, that`s a great question. I mean, for example, you mentioned I`m a board-certified plastic surgeon. I`m actually a board- certified facial plastic surgeon. That`s all I do is face.

My original training is in Otolaryngology.

PINSKY: So you`re an ENT who did facial plastic

NASSIF: Yes, because that`s part of our training through the whole time.

PINSKY: And I`ll be honest with you. When I recommend people for facial plastics, I like ENTs. I think they do a great job.

But did you have some good experiences with ENTs?

MADSEN: No, absolutely not.

PINSKY: You had bad experiences.


PINSKY: What happened?

MADSEN: Well, I went to what I heard were specialists. And one after the next, like, took a whack at me like a pinata.

And no disrespect to you.

PINSKY: Of course. None taken.

MADSEN: But there are surgeons, I was told, were the masters, and weren`t. And one nose retracted up. It was just horrifying.

And I found that -- I`m sorry to say this, but I found that there`s a major boys club that will not pick up the phone and say, hey, what did you do to this girl? You know, you need to pay to get this fixed.

PINSKY: Is that true, Dr. Nassif?

NASSIF: You know, I mean, that`s a different scenario. At least right now the way things work -- I mean, again, I`m talking about -- this was years ago we`re talking.

MADSEN: Yes. Well, no, the last surgery to be fixed was. But, I mean, this is eight years ago when I --

PINSKY: So you contend -- not to interrupt you, but you contend that a doctor should have compensated you for the repairs?

MADSEN: Absolutely. Or at least a doctor, you know, such as yourself -- I don`t know if you`ve ever done this, Dr. Nassif. I know you`re a great surgeon --

PINSKY: Call your peers?

MADSEN: -- but pick up the phone -- yes, exactly. Thank you.

PINSKY: Call your peers and say you screwed up?

MADSEN: Pick up the phone and say, listen, what did you do to this girl? You are going to pay for this because I`m going to fix that.

NASSIF: See, now, in my thoughts -- again, since I do revision rhinoplasty -- so that`s what I`m known for -- a patient comes in, has had a bad nose job, or something happened, at that point I am going to call somebody and say, what happened? But I`m not going to say you pay for it, but I`m going to discuss the case as long as the patient wants me to with that doctor.

PINSKY: Let me go to a piece of video here.

MADSEN: Well, then, who is going to pay for it?

PINSKY: Well, that`s another conversation, and maybe for another day.

But before I go to this piece of tape, I want to point out to people at home that plastic surgery -- "surgery" is right there in the name. And as soon as you go under the knife, you are taking real serious risks.

MADSEN: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Not just anesthesia. Say it`s not a big anesthesia you`re undergoing. If someone takes a knife out and opens your body up, I don`t care what it is, things can go wrong.

Here`s Cindy Jackson. She has the world`s record for the most plastic surgeries. Here she is talking on ABC about her 52 procedures.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re messing with nature.

CINDY JACKSON, HAS HAD 52 COSMETIC PROCEDURES: Nature messed with me. I don`t have any problem messing with nature. That`s absolutely true, I`m messing with nature. But that`s what people do.

We redirect water. We call it plumbing. You know, that`s not natural.

One guy, when I was 14, said, "You know, Cindy, when you smile, from the side, your nose and chin almost meet." It was like being in the wrong body and face. And I felt that very much. And I wanted to change it.


PINSKY: That`s body dismorphia, is it not? That`s what I hear patients talk about when they have psychiatric issues.

Dr. Nassif, do you get psychiatric consultations on patients before they undergo the knife?

NASSIF: Absolutely. About 20 percent of my patients do.

PINSKY: Is that common? Is that standard practice?

NASSIF: No. I mean, especially, I`m doing these revisions, and I`m seeing patients from different parts of the world. So I have to see, why are they doing it, for what reason? And I have to see that -- make sure that they are realistic.

PINSKY: Let`s look at another piece of tape. This is one woman -- one woman. She is somebody everybody knows. It`s Heidi Montag. She had 10 cosmetic procedures in one day. Here she is talking to ABC.


HEIDI MONTAG, REALITY TV STAR: You know, sometimes I want to -- I wish I could just go back to the original Heidi with nothing. Surgery is not glamorous.

I would say plastic surgery is anything but glamorous. It`s really hard, and then it becomes a burden, because you feel like you need to keep up with it, and you don`t.

If I could take it back, I would. I hope that people really hear what I`m saying about plastic surgery, and I hope they really hear that I`m saying I would take it back. And I hope they really hear that I almost risked everything, all my relationships and myself, for vanity.


PINSKY: Well, it`s true. I will tell you that -- and I think you`ll back me up on this -- that once you`re getting into plastic surgery, sometimes you`re getting into a series of procedures.

But one last point I want to make before we end this segment. I want to know if you`re aware of this, Dr. Nassif, which is that my patients -- I do a lot of addicts -- will get plastic surgery in order to get opiates. And sometimes they don`t even know they`re doing it.

So if you ask them, they`ll be in denial about it. They won`t be able to -- you have to kind of be a detective to pull that one out. It happens to my patients all the time.


PINSKY: Do you know that?

MADSEN: And women do lie.

PINSKY: Well, women lie like crazy, of course.

MADSEN: Yes, they lie about that.

PINSKY: And not just women, but patients lie like crazy to get what they want.

MADSEN: Absolutely.

PINSKY: But addicts really lie a lot to get surgeries to get the opiates.

NASSIF: And that`s why you need a really, really good history to find out what`s going on.

PINSKY: That`s absolutely true.

Well, I want to thank you guys for joining us. This is interesting conversation.

You brought up several other topics that I`d like to get into. Perhaps we can have you back for that. I hope you will see someone like Dr. Nassif and maybe get a satisfactory outcome, because I do believe it can be fixed.

Can it not?

NASSIF: You know, at this point, we`re going to talk about that some other time. Who knows? We have to talk about it.

PINSKY: All right. Fair enough.

When we come back, should disciplining a child involve shame ever? Well, here is the extremes to which one mom went.

I`ll tell you what I think.

If you want to know what women really want when it comes to sex and relationships, we`re going to have some answers.

Men, get your pen and paper ready. We`re going to learn something and women are going to learn something too.

That`s coming up later. Stay with us.


PINSKY: Well, parents can go to extremes loving their children and disciplining them. So, how far is too far when it comes to punishing your son or daughter?

Shana Collins disciplined her 15-year-old son Brian for drinking and smoking pot, and, well, by her own words publicly humiliating him. She let their whole town know what he did by advertising it.


PINSKY: Shana and Brian are here. And we welcome Dr. V. , also, a psychologist who will probably back me up on my initial thoughts about this.

But, Brian, first and foremost, I guess what happened, what your mom did -- God bless you mom -- it`s hard to be a parent. Let`s just all say that up front to begin with -- she had you wear a sandwich board with something written on it and made you walk around town?


PINSKY: What exactly was on that sandwich board? Read that for us.

HEATHERLY: It said, "My name is Brian, and I am 15. I am in honors algebra and very smart. But lately I have been making bad choices in the friends I am choosing, as well as engaging in underage drinking and smoking."

"Letting the world know that I am being held accountable for my actions is part of my punishment, as well as doing a research paper on the effects of bad choices, drinking and smoking. I`m lucky to have parents that care enough to make me realize this."

PINSKY: Are you lucky enough?


PINSKY: Did you feel lucky walking around with a sandwich board on?

HEATHERLY: Not really.

PINSKY: Not really. What did it feel like to do that?

HEATHERLY: It was kind of humiliating, I guess.

PINSKY: Humiliating?


PINSKY: Did that make your change your behavior, think about your behavior? Or did it make you think about ways you could get away with more things?

HEATHERLY: Well, now it reminds me of like -- that I should think of the consequences of my actions before I do them.

PINSKY: All right. So you think it worked?


PINSKY: Did you write that paper?

HEATHERLY: No. She never made me.


Shana, you didn`t follow through on that part?


PINSKY: How come? That was the part I liked the best about the whole thing. I thought -- Dr. V. is with us, psychologist.

DR. V.: I agree.

PINSKY: She`s agreeing, too. To me, that was like, oh, my goodness. I`m kind of on board with this.

If he writes a paper and really has to think about the consequence of pot and alcohol, maybe I could come all the way on your side, Shana.

COLLINS: Well, you know, I didn`t this time, but, like, previously, in the last few years, I did make -- the very first time I caught them smoking, I made his little brother and him write -- actually copy -- it was, like, 30 pages I printed off on the Internet of smoking. At that time it was just smoking.

PINSKY: Smoking cigarettes.

COLLINS: And they copied it. It took them four days to copy it.

PINSKY: Shana, but what motivated you to do this? What were you thinking? I mean, did people do this kind of thing to you when you were a kid? Did they try to humiliate you as a way of shaping your behavior?

COLLINS: No. I had just gotten tired of -- this was, like, his third time of being caught smoking. And then whenever I let him -- tried to give him -- trust him a little bit and let him leave the house, because he was grounded for about two months, whenever he decided to take the opportunity, he went and got drunk that night, and come home.

And then that`s when I found out that he was drunk. And I think either the next day or maybe shortly after that, I had seen a text on the pot thing. And then that just, like -- I was just, like, no.

PINSKY: Did other parents in the town feel as though you had done the right thing?

COLLINS: I had a lot of thumbs up.

PINSKY: Would you be surprised to see that people may be watching this might be sort of mortified by that, making your kid walk around with a sandwich board?

COLLINS: It`s possible.

PINSKY: What do you say to those people?

COLLINS: I`m his parent, and that`s the way I feel like, you know, that he could learn after he had been caught so many times. I just didn`t know what else to do. I had taken away cell phones. I had grounded. I had done everything.

PINSKY: You seem a little distressed by it.


PINSKY: I mean how you`re thinking about it.

COLLINS: I`m very emotional when it comes to my kids.

PINSKY: Of course.

COLLINS: I`m very. And I want them to be better than me.

PINSKY: You seem like a pretty good person.


PINSKY: What do you mean by that, better than you?

COLLINS: Because, I just want them to be good members of society.

PINSKY: Are you a single mom?

COLLINS: No. No. I have a wonderful husband.

PINSKY: Does he support you in your parenting?

COLLINS: Absolutely. He is a little bit stricter than me.

PINSKY: Why is this -- you have tears in your eyes. Why is this so upsetting for you?

COLLINS: Just because I want them to be somebody. I want them -- I`m just afraid that life is going to get in the way of them being teenagers. That`s what scares me.

PINSKY: That they`re going to get swept into drugs and alcohol and sex, and all the things you hear about?


PINSKY: And here is evidence that something like that was already happening.

COLLINS: Yes. And I had actually lived that.

PINSKY: You, yourself?

COLLINS: No, no, no. Their father, my ex-husband, he, you know, was an addict. And so I lived that for nine years. And I had seen it. And that`s what scares me, is that my kids are going to go down that same road. So I`m going to do whatever I have to make sure that they don`t.

PINSKY: And you know that alcoholism and addiction is a genetic disorder, right?

COLLINS: Yes. I read on that.

PINSKY: And so there`s a possibility that they could get that predisposition, right?

COLLINS: Yes. Yes.

PINSKY: And so you`re seeing some evidence that that predisposition might be there.

COLLINS: Yes. And with him -- I mean, all of my kids are very smart, but with him, he is in honors algebra. I mean, he`s got the brain.

PINSKY: Well, as you know, addiction is not about being unintelligent.

COLLINS: Right. It`s the choices. And that`s kind of what got me to do this, is for him to wake up.

PINSKY: Brian, what do you think?

HEATHERLY: She`s right.

PINSKY: She`s right?

So do you understand what we`re talking about, that you may have inherited this potential from your dad?


PINSKY: Does the fact that your dad left upset you still?

HEATHERLY: Yes, sometimes.

PINSKY: Is that some of what the feeling is you`re trying to get away from?


PINSKY: It`s not?

HEATHERLY: No, because I have a step dad that loves me.

PINSKY: So you feel good about that. Then where are these choices coming from?

HEATHERLY: Just wrong choices, wrong friends.

PINSKY: No, come on. It`s not that simple. That you`re a screwball 15-year-old? That`s it?


PINSKY: You weren`t feeling bad, wanting to feel better, wanting to escape?

HEATHERLY: No. Just wanting to have fun, I guess.

PINSKY: Wanting to fit in?


PINSKY: Wanted to fit in.

Dr. V, what do you think we`re seeing here?

V: Well, I was wondering, Shana, what was going through your mind as your son was parading around town with a sign that you made for him?

COLLINS: I`m just hoping that he`s going to realize that I`m not going to put up with any more.

V: But can you bring yourself, if you can, back to that moment, if it`s possible? I`m curious as to what you were feeling.

COLLINS: It was basically just that. I mean --

V: Were you feeling a sense? Were you feeling a sense of sadness?

COLLINS: Oh, yes. Sadness.

V: Were you feeling a sense of, ha, got him? What was going through your mind?

COLLINS: Just anger from catching him lie to me over and over and over again. A sadness that --

PINSKY: Let me take this a slightly different play, in a different direction.

In my world, addiction starts young, oftentimes. And when it starts young, we see the genetic heritage there, which you know that you`ve got here. The other thing we see is trauma.

Has he been exposed to trauma? There was no physical abuse, sexual abuse, abandonment, neglect?

COLLINS: Absolutely not.

PINSKY: No. He didn`t witness any physical violence or anything like that?

COLLINS: When he was really little.

PINSKY: When it means the most to them, when they`re really little, of course.

COLLINS: Possibly, yes.

PINSKY: OK. So he saw some sort of physical violence when he was a child. What did he see?

COLLINS: Just me and his dad fighting a lot. Arguing and --

PINSKY: I said physical violence. Did he --


PINSKY: He beat you?

COLLINS: Physical, emotional, yes.

PINSKY: So as a little boy, he was exposed to physical and emotional abuse, watching his mom be physically and emotionally abused?


PINSKY: That can be shattering to a child. That is shattering.

He may think he`s over it now -- I can see him wanting to protect you from this even right now. It can be a really intense thing, being exposed to that as a child.

So my big question is -- so, we have the genetics of addiction, we have traumatic childhood, and you`re trying to manage this thing that`s out of control. Why didn`t you get help from a mental health professional?

COLLINS: That was actually one of the things I told him, that I was going to set him up with a counselor.

PINSKY: But that`s not like a last resort. That should have been the very first thing you did.

Dr. V., do you agree with me on this? If it worked in our world to put somebody with a sandwich board and walk them out, I`m telling you, I would do that. I would do that immediately. There would be nothing to it. But that does not work.

V: And I agree with you, Dr. Drew. And at the same time, I think it`s important to take in the cultural context of where they live, the neighborhood, the community feeling that you may have, that perhaps the first thing one may do is not go to a mental health professional.

PINSKY: Of course. And I don`t mean to create another victim by blaming Shana.

V: No, no.

PINSKY: But people don`t think about this quick enough.

V: Right.

PINSKY: It shouldn`t be a last resort. It should be -- for me, I think we could do so much with this kid. We could really -- don`t you agree.

V: No, I agree. I agree.

PINSKY: We could do a ton with this kid. But the last thing we would do is humiliate him.

I`m not sure the humiliation works. And again, I don`t want another victim here. We`re here to have a conversation about this.

V: Yes, we`re not here to humiliate you. You humiliated him. And that`s what --


COLLINS: That`s what I`ve done with the time.

PINSKY: And by the way, I like what was on the sandwich board. I`m sort of on board with that. I`m sort of on board with the paper and what not.

But for goodness sakes, parents out there, get some help when you need it. If you have a burgeoning addiction of a 15-year-old, that, in my opinion, that`s a real indication for medical help.

So I hope you`ll do that. Maybe we can help arrange that for you.


PINSKY: Dr. V, thank you for helping us.


Next, I am taking your questions and your phone calls about many things, including more on parental discipline.

Then, women and men, get your pen and paper ready. You will want to take notes on this.

For many years, have I been asking, what do women really want? Well, I`m going to put a panel together next that`s going to give you all the answers.

Stay tuned.


PINSKY: All right. Every day I get lots of questions, and people want answers. So what we`re going to do right now is introduce our new section.

They`re calling it "Dr. Drew on Call," but really, it`s my chance to play with some toys here. So I want you to check this out.

First of all, behind me is my Facebook page. Check this out.

Magic. And lest you think that`s not real, I am manipulating it right here with my iPad.

And we`re also going to have live feed from Twitter, which -- magic -- there we go. There`s the live Twitter feed.

So, when people first asked me about doing this show, my initial response was I`m happy to do this, but I want to have lots of interaction. I really think people asking me questions from various sources is going to be an important part of this. So we are introducing this to you right now.

And first, we`re going to start out with a Facebook post, following on to our questions, our topic about disciplining children.

Here is Melissa V. She says, "Discipline is supposed to be a learning experience, not a degrading experience." That is, punishing through embarrassment. "Sounds more to me like a form of bullying."

Melissa, I absolutely, categorically agree with you. The thing to look out for is making a child feel helpless or powerless. And when you are emotionally invested and your emotions are out of control when you`re trying to discipline a child, that is not going to go well.

I now have a question, also Facebook, from Heidi W. She says, "My husband has belittled our 7 and 3-year-old sons in the hopes they will feel stupid" -- unbelievable -- "and stop doing whatever it was they were doing. He also has threatened to embarrass them in front of their friends. I`ve tried to educate him, but he has done nothing but damaged their self-esteem and the respect they had for him."

Again, I have great Facebook followers here, obviously. Their instincts are good.

Belittling, teasing is abusive. You don`t tease your kids. It`s not OK. It`s not a way of disciplining.

Read some parenting books. There`s a lot of information out there. We`ll get to some of that in future segments.

Right now, I`ve got just enough time though to take a call from first Ryan. He`s from Reno.

Ryan, what`s going on, buddy?

RYAN, FROM RENO, NEVADA: How`s it going?

Well, what`s going on is I got a promotion at my job, and my promotion is going to take me out of town to Vegas. And my girlfriend -- I myself am 20. She`s 25. We`ve been together for three years.

PINSKY: All right.

RYAN: And she is saying -- you know, I don`t want to be without her. We have a great relationship. And she`s saying the only way that she`ll come with me is if we get married.

PINSKY: All right. So she`s 20 -- she`s 25, she`s ready to get married. You`re 20 and you`re not ready to get married. Right?


PINSKY: OK. This is something I really want to emphasize to people at home. And this -- I am -- I hope this doesn`t sound sexist, but this is something I have found over and over and over again with young people.

And I really want you to listen carefully, Ryan, to what I`m saying.

That is that men typically, more often than not, have a time in their life when they are ready to get married than a person they are with. In other words, Ryan, if you`re not ready to get married now, and you force it, it is not going to go well.

You`re going to cheat, you`re going to resent your wife. While women more often judge on who they`re with.

In fact, this kind of thing are the topics that drive me crazy, the differences between how men and women perceive these things. I`ve talked to many men who really felt they let the one go, but they knew they weren`t ready. And as a result, they couldn`t do it, they couldn`t get married, even though it was somebody they wish they would have done it with. It wouldn`t have worked out for them.

Men and women have very different experiences with these things. And the fact is, we`re still wondering what other each wants.

So that`s what I want to get to when we come back.

Thank you for your call, Ryan.

It`s one of the most asked questions I ever get -- what do women really want when it comes to sex and relationships? So I`m promising you to get to the answers. We`re going to have a panel here to get to the bottom of it, next.


PINSKY: This is a topic I think everyone will be interested in, so let`s get right to it. I think men -- and strangely enough, women will be interested in this, too. What do women really want when it comes to sex and relationships? Here to help me answer this question are some brutally honest, beautiful, and brave young women. And I must tell you, I am deeply outnumbered here.


PINSKY: I`m outnumbered and outgunned. I`m having a little bit of what` called the cremasteric response. I challenge you to look that up on Google and get a little chuckle out of that, on my behalf.

Jessica Hall is a TV personality, a "Deal or No Deal" suitcase model, Diana Falzone is an advice columnist, Lora Somoza is the naughty Dear Abby, and Claudia Jordan is a former Miss Rhode Island Teen USA. Welcome, ladies. So, we`re going to ask a series of questions that were originally posed by "Maxim" magazine as part of their annual sex survey. We`re going to see what you guys have to say.

The results are in the April issue, and I`ll be reviewing them all right here. You got it? All right. Here is the first question from the "Maxim" survey. This was asked of 8,000 women. What is the biggest turn- on when meeting a man? We first asked a man on the street what he thought.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest turn-on. I hear they love men`s shoes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Physical appearance, I assume.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Money. A rich guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than anything else, being an emotional support.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think a woman would say personality is the biggest turn-on.


PINSKY: I think what this tape shows us, ladies, is how clueless men are. Is it not true? So, what is the answer to that question from your perspective?

CLAUDIA JORDAN, FORMER MISS RHODE ISLAND TEEN USA: It`s definitely not shoes. It`s not that. I mean, you can have --

PINSKY: Although, I have tons of shoes -- I have a million shoe questions about you guys, because you`re looking at one another`s` shoes before -- but that`s for another day.


PINSKY: So, what is it?

JORDAN: I see the guys in the clubs, right? And that may not be the best place to meet a guy, but I`m there, so why not look around. And you see the guy that`s trying way too hard. That`s not who we want.

PINSKY: What do you want?


DIANE FALZONE, ADVICE COLUMNIST: I want the guy who`s genuine, who can actually carry a conversation, listen to what I`m saying, respond, and isn`t going to tell me how much money he makes.

PINSKY: Stop it.


PINSKY: Stop. Stop. Because I get questions from guys all the time, why don`t they like nice guys? I`m so nice to them.

FALZONE: Because they`re not a nice guy, usually.

LORA SOMOZA, SEX EDUCATOR: You know, I love the idea of a guy that can make me laugh, who`s really witty, who stays with me, but there is also something where the guy that loves women, and you can really -- you can smell that. You know that there`s a guy that will take a suitcase, and he will move in between your legs and you get that feeling from him. You know that he just wants to be with you.

PINSKY: Do you know something? When we see a guy as men -- guys, back me up on this at home. When we see a guy paying too much attention, doing, you know, going too far with the romantic interludes, we don`t trust that guy. We think he`s trying to manipulate you. No?


JORDAN: Listen, if it`s the right guy, all that stuff is wonderful. But if it`s the wrong guy, it`s stalking.

PINSKY: How`s -- guys, that`s so confusing. Every guy wants to be the right guy.

SOMOZA: It is true, though.

JORDAN: We`ll give you signs, though.

PINSKY: What are the signs?

JORDAN: OK. If I`m not making eye contact with you, I`m looking away and I`m just like laughing at you at inappropriate times, most likely, I can`t stand your ass.


PINSKY: What are the good signs?

HALL: We can`t waste their time either, though.

PINSKY: By the way, guys think when you`re laughing no matter what it is, they think, oh, I`m doing great.

JORDAN: We`re texting our friends like get him away from me. S.O.S.

PINSKY: What is a good sign?

FALZONE: A good sign is when he texts you, text him right back. You don`t wait two or three hours. It`s having open communication and constant communication. On a date, if you`re looking at the clock and you`re like, you know what, I`ve got to go because my friend is in trouble or you want the check, that`s usually when we`re not interested.

PINSKY: How about when guys first comes up to you, though? And I`m doing this to you right now. Women do a lot of this.

HALL: You`re touching. Do you want me? You want me.

PINSKY: I`m happily married, thankfully.


PINSKY: We`re not going there. But the fact is that men don`t know this one little thing. I think you guys will agree, I`ve heard this from women which is that, when a woman looks for excuses to touch and stay physically close, and especially the hand drag. This is something that Carolla (ph) noticed. That drag as you walked away. Is that a good sign?

HALL: I definitely think it`s a good sign. I mean, when I`m interested in somebody, I make complete eye contact. I do like to touch. I like to be touchy feeley, and I definitely think that gives the guy, you know, the motive to keep on talking to me. Maybe, hopefully, keeping my attention, and maybe, the hands go lower or, you know --


PINSKY: Easy, Easy. Let`s actually go look at the "Maxim" poll results to our open question. Here they are. Thirty-seven percent playful teasing.

JORDAN: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Really? Gentlemanly behavior. That`s opening the door and that sort of thing. Lots of eye contact. That makes sense. And I think for guys at home, they`re still trying to figure this out. Trust me. A lot of what you, guys, just said, we heard like Charlie Brown`s teacher. Like wo, wo, wow. It`s hard for us to figure it out, but the eye contact thing is, would you agree with me, being present, right?


HALL: Yes.

PINSKY: Right? Somebody who`s really, really present.



PINSKY: All right. Good. Let`s go to the second question. What would you like more of during sex? Here`s what guys think.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a girl like more during sex? Romance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe most women would suggest to men they would like more foreplay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Girls would like oral sex more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More like romantic sex, not just like a quickie here and there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think women want more of what they want.


PINSKY: They want more of what they want. Is that what he said?

JORDAN: That was specific.

FALZONE: I think he meant more female interaction, maybe.

PINSKY: Well, OK. Actually, for this one, I want to go to the data first. Let`s find out what "maxim" has for us, and then I want to talk about it a little bit. Here is the data. OK. I thought they`re going to say this. Forty percent foreplay, 18 percent oral sex. Oh, my goodness. It goes into the spanking and rough play. That`s interesting.


PINSKY: We have a fan. We have a fan in the studio. Fantastic. Again, look out cremasteric response.


PINSKY: But foreplay. Men are completely confused about what foreplay is. You guys say foreplay. Do you know what we hear? Do you know that when you say foreplay?

FALZONE: What do you hear?

PINSKY: Genital touching.

JORDAN: That`s not it.

PINSKY: We don`t know that.

JORDAN: It usually (ph) starts with flirting. It starts just like on the phone texting and sexy things that someone says on the phone. How they treat you before --

PINSKY: That could be three weeks before.

FALZONE: Exactly.

PINSKY: You know how confusing that is for a man?

JORDAN: The better the foreplay, the more we`re going to give you in bed. It`s going to be a way better experience for you. It`s like warming up an expensive car.

PINSKY: Do you agree --

JORDAN: You don`t just slam the gas.


PINSKY: Women are so different one from another. That`s what drives us out of our winds.

SOMOZA: We`re like snowflakes. We`re all different.

PINSKY: You are like snowflakes, but you want to say it`s something different.

SOMOZA: Yes. The thing I think that a lot of people look at foreplay as being oral sex. And like I was saying before --

PINSKY: Men look at it as that.

SOMOZA: Exactly. And no. I think oral sex is part of sex.

JORDAN: Absolutely.

PINSKY: So, that`s not foreplay anymore?


PINSKY: I thought you said it was foreplay, but you`re disagreeing.

HALL: I do disagree. I do think foreplay isn`t part of oral sex, and I think just right before the actually penetration.

PINSKY: So, for you, that`s foreplay?

HALL: Yes, it is.

SOMOZA: That`s sex, though.

PINSKY: Here`s what I tell man --

HALL: It is sex, but foreplay that leads up to that, that`s all --

JORDAN: Have you ever not just gotten just oral sex and then that`s it?



HALL: I better be getting it all.


PINSKY: Hello! Hello! Hosting the show here. Hang on a second. Hang on a second.


PINSKY: Ladies --


PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. I like to speak. Thank you. Like I said -- you like guys that are present. This is a little exhausting. I forgot what I was going to say now. It`s really extra good, but you, guys, dazzled me with your beauty, so what am I supposed to do. I think what I was going to say was what I tell men is -- this is what I was going to say, when they get so confused about this, I say, guys, think about it this way.

When they say foreplay, they mean dinner. That`s what they`re talking about. You, guys, are all shaking your heads. You`re not interesting. So, that`s what makes us super duper crazy. But I think, generally, what they`re speaking about, think about it more in terms of dinner, I think that`s a closer approximation. Hang on. We got the third question here. This is asked of 8,000 women. When is it OK for a guy to make a move? Guys think they know.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say after a couple of meetings, getting somewhat attached, not the first night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I say about at least the fifth date because you know her a little bit more and what she`s into and everything like that.



PINSKY: Anytime?

HALL: Not anytime.

PINSKY: Right after rufy`s?


PINSKY: I did not say that. Listen, we`re running out of time. I think we`re going to have to address this when we get back in the break. But I would say that one probably is variable upon the woman, is it not?


PINSKY: And upon the man, too. The couple, exactly. I think that`s exactly right.

SOMOZA (ph): I think the woman should make the first move.

PINSKY: All right. We`re going to come back with the results. What`s the best indication that a woman is into a guy that they`ve just met? We`re going to answer that question and more after this.


PINSKY: We are back with four successful women, helping us to determine what women really want. Now, this has been a pretty free wheeling conversation, so those of you at home with kids, thankfully, my triplets are 18 now. So, the horse is out of the barn.


PINSKY: But just saying. But for those of you have kids, I really caution you. I don`t know where this conversation is going. We just, for instance, found out that Jessica has wrecked the home of Kendra Wilkinson. This is now "In Touch" magazine. She is Kendra`s lover. She just discovered in "In Touch", the source of --

HALL: They actually have one of the most healthiest, best relationships ever, and I feel bad that I`m now the lesbian home wrecker.

FALZONE: Which you`re not.

HALL: Which obviously I`m not. She`s a great girl.

PINSKY: I told you we`d get it right on this show. So, here we go. Jessica not a lesbian home wrecker. There you go.

HALL: Thank you, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Let`s go to a different magazine, guys. "Maxim" magazine is helping us without with their survey. Here`s the questions from their April issue. We`re going to get back to our previous question which was paying out the data on when is it time to make the right move? Here are the survey results. Let`s take a look at them.

Seventy-one percent, whenever as long as he`s sure I`m into him. Well, that`s exactly the problem. We have no idea. Seventeen percent, only after two or more dates. So, that`s the old three-date rule to some extent. That`s a safe number to hold to, is not, three dates?


SOMOZA: I think that would be if you`re still willing to go out with him, then you`re interested.


HALL: Yes, but I don`t think you should put a number on it. The fourth date will do this. It`s not like an agenda. It`s a connection. It`s that, you know, everything -- I mean, how many times have you guys met and some guy ended up making out with him?

SOMOZA: Because I think you`ve been where before. It`s like I`m either going to make out and make out with him on the first date or the 10th date. The third date thing is bull.

FALZONE: I`ll wait like the first date to not kiss, not anything, just to get to know him, just to see where it`s going because maybe he`s more of a friend and you got to figure it out.

JORDAN: I`m intrigued when a guy backs up and doesn`t act little thirsty (ph). Like a guy one time chasing for a long time and then he stopped, and the moment he stopped is when I went crazy for him. I really want him.

SOMOZA: You want what you can`t have.

JORDAN: Exactly.

PINSKY: Gentlemen, here`s what we`ve learned, nothing. I have no idea what they just said. I heard four completely different responses. Let`s go on to next question. Is it possible to have no strings attached sex? Here`s what guys say.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it is possible for you to have no strings attached in sex. I think some girls probably would say that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a woman, I would believe they would say that it is impossible to have no strings allowed or attached sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not really. I think women expect you to have some strings attached.


PINSKY: OK. Men are leaning in on this one, ladies. Bring in. Let`s hear it. Who`s going to start?


PINSKY: Hold on. Let her finish. I know you`re going to disagree.


PINSKY: It will make us crazy, but I want to hear the full thought. Let`s hear the full thought.

SOMOZA: I think, you know, I`ve been in that situation before where I have had that. And it`s a great idea in theory, but I really don`t believe that you can take apart your emotions like that and just kind of deaden one part of it.

PINSKY: Do you know what I see young people doing all the time on college campuses? Drinking away their emotions. They drink and drink and drink so they make sure they don`t have any feelings. And you said it looks -- it sounds good on paper. And as something I like to point out to my viewers, communism looks good on paper, too. It just doesn`t work so good in real life when you`re dealing with humans.

SOMOZA: At some point, one of the people is going to have, like, a boyfriend or a girlfriend, and it`s going to get cut off in some place, and how is that going to be a smooth --

PINSKY: All right. Well, but, Jessica disagrees. What`s the deal? Jessica have no

SOMOZA: What have you got for us?

HALL: Well, no. I think that if you have like a mutual understanding, and that the two people just kind of want to, you know, have sex --

PINSKY: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. From a man`s point of view because here`s what I think. Every guy wants to be that guy that can have the no strings attached sex. Why is it only certain guys get to do that?

HALL: Because they`re that good maybe, I don`t know.

PINSKY: What does that mean? How do you know if you`re one of those guys for that girl?

HALL: Because that they keep coming back, maybe. Maybe, it`s like you know --

PINSKY: Well then, it`s no longer strings attached. They`re coming back.


JORDAN: There`s no such thing because you can go in there and say that all you want, but eventually, -- women, we`re emotional beings. No matter how hard core we want to act, oh, I don`t care about him, it`s just sex. Eventually, you`re going to have regretted it. You feel bad. Does he think I`m a whore? Whatever.


FALZONE: We live in an STD run society, and someone could get pregnant. I mean -


PINSKY: Let`s look at the data from "Maxim." Here we go. Fifty-one percent, I always end up wanting more. Forty-nine percent, I`m as turned on as commitmentphobic as a dude. Well, here`s my take on this, and it`s kind of complicated, which is that women, to make it simple from a biological standpoint, have a hormone called oxytocin.

That`s the bonding hormone, the love hormone, and you really bond to it, really respond under the influence of estrogen. Men, it actually has blocked by testosterone. So, we can do this and not have the bonding experience. Though, men get hurt in this stuff, too, all the time. The people that can do this oftentimes are alcoholic sex addicts, and they`re just part of they`re acting out and their thrill-seeking. I see that a lot.

HALL: Or commitmentphobic like --

PINSKY: Or commitmentphobic which is often, again, (INAUDIBLE). People who come from disturbed (ph) relationships in their family system. So, when they get close, they run away.

FALZONE: Why does a healthy normal girl want to deal with a guy who`s has all those issues you just mentioned?


SOMOZA: And you don`t have a chance at having a real relationship.


SOMOZA: At some point, they`re going to want more.

HALL: I think what other person, the guy or girl, doesn`t want to give their whole self to that one person so that`s why they have no strings attached.

JORDAN: But all these just other side to do that.

PINSKY: And that`s one of the things I wanted to have this conversation for is to really look at what`s honestly happening, and you can choose not to respond to it, but to pretend it`s not happening I think is a mistake. And actually, it`s kind of painful to think about women denying things that are uniquely in them as part of their biology.

OK. I want to take another sharp turn in this conversation. Are you guys ready, crew? I know you have fun here, guys.


PINSKY: This is a little bit of self review. I will start within fact. My wife and I when we`re trying to have kids, she casually said something like about how having sex in order to reproduce was more erotic, and I was like, what? Isn`t avoiding children what sex is all about? Is that true? Is that something with an experience?

JORDAN: No one wants to say anything, right?


PINSKY: Wait. This is kind of the stuff we need to hear as men.

JORDAN: I understand. I`m older.

PINSKY: What does that mean?

JORDAN: I`m up in age, and I want to have a baby soon, but I feel like that -- I think that makes it more like -- it is erotic and kind of animalistic because that`s really the point of what you`re doing. And you don`t have that condom as a barrier between you, two. And it`s like, it is a sexual, animalistic kind of erotic thing to think about having sex for a child like in some of my drunken moments, I may have said something about getting me pregnant. I didn`t really mean it at the time, but, you know, that makes it more sexy for the man at that moment.

PINSKY: No! No! Gentlemen, back me up on this, on the crew. No, no. 100 percent no here, 100 percent.

JORDAN: At the moment.

PINSKY: At the moment. At any moment. That`s not what men will respond, but they need to know that you do. They need to know that because we don`t know that.

JORDAN: It`s sexy at the moment. It may not be sexy two weeks later when she says I`m late, and you`re like who`s that, but at the moment, it`s sexy.


HALL: Well, it`s true. It`s like when you`re together (ph) and you`re actually creating a life together, I mean, you guys don`t do that normally when you have sex. It`s a big, like, intense feeling.

PINSKY: It`s kind of -- it`s enticing and thrilling for a man, but it`s not --

JORDAN: That`s not erotic.

PINSKY: Well, we were (INAUDIBLE) but I think someone would, and I think that`s very interesting.


PINSKY: Correct. I would experience intimate too, but that`s one other thing that goes the same topic is why don`t women discuss the differences amongst them and celebrate those differences as opposed to hiding how they`re different from one another?

FALZONE: It`s because everyone is afraid of being judged.

JORDAN: Exactly.

FALZONE: There`s a lot of shaming with women.

PINSKY: But you`re all different. I bet if I talk each of you about your sexual response, each one maybe totally different. And do you know that screws guys up?


SOMOZA: I think it really depends on how you grew up, how you were taught about sex. I know like when we grew up, like in fourth grade, if someone was dressed as a certain way or looked a certain way or did a certain thing, they were fourth grade sluts. We have no idea what it meant.

PINSKY: Would it not be right to say that women judge each other more harshly than anyone?

FALZONE: Absolutely.

HALL: I agree.

SOMOZA: I would say I judge myself more harshly than anyone.

PINSKY: All right. We`re going to take a break. All right. Thank you for being so open and honest, so far. And what I want to do when we come back, this is the secrets of what women really want. I want each of you to tell my male and female viewers something very specific that you think they need to know about you and your sense of yourself as a woman in sex and relationships. We`re going to want to hear this.


PINSKY: Well, I want to thank our panel. This has been a very free wheeling conversation. And yes, they`re laughing. They`re giggling, but we`re going places that TV doesn`t normally go, and that`s what I want to do with the show is answer questions that are tough to deal with and make me uncomfortable and that sort of lets me know I`m in the right zone. I also want to remind people to go ahead and stay tuned for Joy Behar after this. I know that she has Barbara Eden on. And for my generation, "I Dream of Jeannie" was porn. That was it.


HALL: She is a hotty.

PINSKY: I`m getting lots of noddy heads from the crews that are my age, as a matter of fact. OK. So, I`m giving you guys each about 30 seconds to give my viewers something, some piece of filthy advice or information do you think they need to take away. Go. Jessica, the lesbian home wrecker first.

HALL: Hello. I think, you know, men and women, I think they want the same exact thing. And I think they just need to be like open to each other, you know, communicate. I mean, we all at the end of the day, we all, you know, want -- we all want romance, you know, mystery, good sex. So, I just think that, you know, the communication really helps. And I think you guys can all agree with me on that one. And, you know, just stay true to yourself. You know, keep your morals and values. There`s one person out there for everyone, and I really strongly believe that.

PINSKY: All we want is love. That`s a good point.

FALZONE: This is for men out there, think before you speak. I think many men overpromise, say that they`re in love, lead someone on, and they go, oh, baby, I don`t want the commitment, and people get hurt. So, it`s really think about what you need before you say those things and lead someone down the wrong path.

PINSKY: OK. Very good.

SOMOZA: The thing that I really want to stress would be that we`re on the same team. You know, I think that --

PINSKY: Men and women?

SOMOZA: Yes, exactly. If I`m in a relationship with someone, I`m on their side, and he`s on my side. And we get to this point where it`s about or what are you going to take from me and this fear that takes over, and if you can just take a moment and realize that we`re actually trying to do this together, I`ve got your back, then maybe you could stop and think, oh, OK, we can do this together.

PINSKY: It is a great note. The number one complaint I hear from couples when they are in treatment is they don`t feel safe.

SOMOZA: Exactly.

PINSKY: And sometimes just taking a beat and taking a deep breath and going, I don`t want to fight. I want to make this work out is sufficient to make it work out.

HALL: Yes.

JORDAN: My advice to men would be, give us a little bit more credit. A lot of times, you know, men are living a lie because they`re telling us what they think we want to know or want to hear. And really, your real you is probably good enough for us. And you`d be amazed at how much we`re be willing to put up with or deal with if we only knew the truth because, then, it doesn`t feel like we`re on the same team, and I don`t really know who you are. So, just tell me who you are and let me have the choice to deal with it or not.

PINSKY: Guys, you make great point. That`s what I hear oftentimes also is that women just want a guy to be present, fully present, fully honest, fully available, and then, you`ll decide whether things are going ahead or not. But again, that makes us crazy because we want to be that guy, and when we`re not, it`s very painful.

And inside, maybe I`m going too far with this, men back me up, we`re kind of sensitive, little boys on the inside. And particularly, when it comes to our sexuality, we are easily damaged and easily hurt. And you know, particularly, young males have a really tough time with it. No?

JORDAN: No, I was going to say why is it that a man can be, you know, be broken up with all hurt by his high school sweetheart and for the rest of his life, he`s like anti-women? But women, we have to go through it over and over and over again and we have so resilient and we still are optimistic. I like to discuss -



PINSKY: Funny, you would say that. I would love to have you back, and I think we will bring you back to talk more about these issues, sex and relationships and whatever. And I do -- I think women -- females are pretty cool form of the human species. They`ve got a bigger brain. You have big corpus callosum. You`re using more of the right side of the brain. We`re going to get into all that and more, but for now, I`m going to say fair thee well, and we`ll see you tomorrow.