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Undercover Sting Nabs Sex Predators

Aired May 10, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a sickening pedophile sting nets 22 men. Cops say the suspects, one as old as 68, traveled to, quote, "teach girls" as young as 9 how to have sex. Instead, the men got the shock of their lives when they were greeted by cops and cuffs. You won`t believe what some of these guys have brought with them.

Plus, a teen murderer is home after less than a year and a half in jail. He claims the victim sexually molested him for years. But does that excuse the fact that he beat him with a pickle jar and stabbed him more than 50 times?

DANIEL KOVARBASICH, CONVICTED OF KILLING NEIGHBOR: I came around and thought I got it in the eye.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And day two of jury selection for the trial of the century. Casey Anthony sits in court today as juror after potential juror speaks out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t feel that I can fairly -- I`ve already prejudged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what is that opinion?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now the nation wonders: can they find 20 people who haven`t already made up their minds about Casey.

Also, is the Terminator terminated? Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver announce that they`re separating after a quarter of a century of marriage. As rumors of infidelity and emotional abuse fly, what will the Governator do next? I`m taking your calls.

ISSUES starts now.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy walked boldly up to a home, which he thought was any home in your local community, with this whip and this mask to sexually abuse your 11-year-old child.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight: a massive sex predator sweep in Florida. Operation Last House Call takes 22 suspects off the street. All of them accused of answering online ads that allegedly involved having sex with an underage girl, some girls as young as 9 years old. What kind of an adult man wants to have a sexual relationship with a young girl? A sicko. That`s who.

Twenty-two men, 18 to 67 years old, were caught up in the three-week- long sting operation. Most of the suspects answered online ads that were posted by undercover cops posing as relatives who were shopping their kids for sex. Some got caught instant messaging for cops posing as children.

Police say some of them drove from as far away as Maryland, Virginia, Texas, and Missouri, all the way to Polk County, Florida, to have sex with a child. Instead, they got a nasty shock. Cops, not kids, greeted them and then threw them in handcuffs.

Here`s a look at the video of the stings. Now, we have blurred their faces, since we don`t want to single out any one suspect. Didn`t that show "To Catch a Predator" teach these guys anything? Cops say many of these guys even asked if they were talking to cops. Was the temptation just too much?

One, the youngest, 18 years old, was arrested and said, "My mom is going to kill me. Tomorrow is Mother`s Day." Well, I hate to tell you, you`ve got much bigger problems than your mother being upset with you.

And I`m taking your calls on this. Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Why do men do this, if in fact they`ve done what they are accused of doing?

Straight out to James Burnett, columnist and enterprise writer for "The Miami Herald."

James, another huge predator sweep in Florida. These stings always look fantastic on television, but will these charges stick?

JAMES BURNETT, COLUMNIST/WRITER, "THE MIAMI HERALD" (via phone): Jane, you know, I think the charges will stick. They have perfected prosecutions of charges like this.

It`s funny you mentioned "To Catch a Predator" and you`re right, I was thinking the exact same thing. Haven`t these guys not learned anything? But one thing that law enforcement has learned over the past several years, they have perfected the charges, and they know what will stick. They know what they can get these guys on and what they can slip -- slip through the cracks with. So I`m pretty confident that the charges will stick in these cases, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what kind of online ads were these guys allegedly responding to? Cops haven`t released the exact language, but the ads said something like mom, step parent, aunt, guardian, "seeking guidance for my daughter, stepdaughter, niece." The ads were posted on several different social media sites. Cops say eight of the 22 suspects sent instant messages to the detectives who were posing as kids. Then the suspects drove to a meeting place allegedly to have sex with the children, and they were arrested.

Criminal profiler Pat Brown, you have actually posed as a young girl on the phone in one of these stings. How does it look?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I posed as a 14-year-old who I named Vanessa. What is really interesting, about all of these men, is they all claim they want to teach these young girls how to have sex. Let me tell you what teaching includes. It`s not love making. It`s not romance. It`s sadistic sex. Almost all of them immediately want to have rough sex. They want to do some kind of bondage. They want to do spanking and they want to do anal sex on 13-year-old, 11-year-old, 12-year-old girls. It`s sadism, and that`s what people need to realize.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ve got to stress now, these men, and you`ve seen their photos, have not been convicted. They are just charged with, among other things, traveling to meet a minor for sex.

With 20 of them we were obviously unable to reach all of their attorneys, if they even have lawyers, but they are invited on our show any time to tell their side.

Hypothetically speaking, however, what kind of man wants to have sex with a young girl? Is this some sort of twisted fantasy for emotionally stunted men who never grew up and really are incapable of having an adult relationship with an adult woman? Are they terrified of having a girlfriend who is their own age?

Now, Sonia Arosio [SIC] -- Ossorio, you`re the executive director of NOW, National Organization for Women, in New York City. You cover sex trafficking all the time. These girls turn out to be cops. But you know, as we speak right now, there are real adult men having sex with real children, because that is a sex-trafficking crisis that exists right now in the United States of America -- Sonia.

SONIA OSSORIO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NOW: You know, absolutely. The only thing that`s not real about this story is that you don`t -- predators don`t generally go online and get to abuse girls for free.

The truth of the matter is, kids across our country are being sexually abused each and every day by adult men who pay -- who pay to abuse them. And what it is, is human trafficking, and it`s the most hidden form of child abuse happening in our country today.

This is a really good story, because what we`ve seen from law enforcement in Florida is a real effort to be proactive. You`ve got different agencies working together. They didn`t worry about turf warfare, and they went after these predators. And you`ve got to see more of that happening in the actual sex trade. We`ve got to change our attitudes about what we think are bad girls. Because, you know, we see it each and every day. Sixteen-, 14-, and even 12-year-old girls that are working in the sex trade, because they are being coerced, forced.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But let me ask you this follow-up question. In this hypothetical, the so-called girls who are really undercover cops were being pimped by relatives, by mothers and aunts and sisters. Does that happen in the real world of sex trafficking?

OSSORIO: Sure. It definitely does happen, but in more cases than not, there`s a whole network of criminals who are out there to make money on young girls, and they go to -- they go to bus stops to find runaways. They go to shelters were girls who have been neglected are staying and coerce them and force them into prostitution.

So while they`re sure there are some families that are out there doing it, and some uncles that might be directly selling them, you know, a lot of these girls that are in the sex trade now, it`s another form of abuse that`s happened earlier in their lives that has really led them down this road.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re right. It`s a vicious cycle, because they`re being abused at home. Then they run away. They become runaways. And I read a stat where 45 minutes after arriving at the bus depot or the train station, they are approached by a pimp who offers them food and lodging. And the next thing you know, they`re sex slaves and they`re being sold to sometimes dozens of men every single night.

And those are not just your classic stereotypical pervert with the trench coat. No, these are the guy next door. And that`s my big issue tonight. No stereotypes? Unh-huh. This case proves there is absolutely no stereotype for a suspected sex predator.

These suspects are 18 to 67 years old, some allegedly stuck on the idea that they were giving these girls some kind of rite of passage by teaching children how to have sex. And they represent all races, all background, all incomes. Among them, a student, a software technician, a tire technician, a waiter, two members of the U.S. military, a former TV executive, a construction worker, and a martial arts instructor.

So, my gosh, Stacey Honowitz, the only thing that these guys have in common is that they were caught up in this sting.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA SEX CRIMES PROSECUTOR: I`ve been saying this for years, because I`ve been prosecuting these cases for 20 years, and no one wants to listen. Sex abuse, sex trafficking, sex abuse within the house is an epidemic. It`s not just paying girls for sex. There`s plenty of uncles that pawn off their nieces to the neighbor next door. This is going on all over the place. And people are too afraid to talk about it, to listen, to have -- to talk in schools to educate children. People are scared to death. I can`t get my books out there, because schools are too afraid to talk about vaginas, and penises, and sex abuse. So this...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they`ve got to get over it. They`ve got to get over it. These schools have got to get over it and realize these are body parts and the kids need to know about them, and they need to be taught about them in a safe environment so they can protect themselves and not have some perv down the block.

We`re going to cover a case in a couple of minutes of a kid who murdered his neighbor after claiming the guy was sexually molesting him for years on end and had first lured him in, allegedly, with an offer to walk his dog. So he should have been taught something in school. The alleged molester wouldn`t be dead, and he wouldn`t be a convict. And there wouldn`t be a national debate about whether he should have been let out of prison or not early.

Much more on this sweeping sex sting that caught 22 suspects. And we`re taking your calls. I know they`re lining up. Rodney, Minnesota, hang on. We`ll get to you on the other side of the break.

Plus, a Casey Anthony stunner. It`s only day two of the trial, and there`s already -- you won`t believe it. They threw out I can`t even tell you how many potential jurors today en masse, and I`ll tell you why.



SHERIFF GRADY JUDD, POLK COUNTY, FLORIDA: We encourage every sheriff and every police chief across the nation, if they`re not actively involved with proactively going after these child predators, they need to. The reason we have to do that is, if we react to these events, then the child has already been victimized.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Polk County, Florida, sheriff Grady Judd, who is going to be on "Dr. Drew" tonight right here on HLN. He spearheaded this massive sex sting operation that netted 22 suspects.

And I do love what he says about being proactive. For a long time I have called on law enforcement to become more proactive, not wait until the murder or the rape or the molestation, but do these kinds of things. But then you have to wonder, does it come like pre-crime? Remember that movie? Where they arrested them before they committed the crime? So we`re going to talk about the constitutionality in a moment.

But first, I want to go to Rodney, Minnesota. Your question or thought, sir?

CALLER: First off, Jane, I want to commend you on your 15 years of sobriety.


CALLER: I`m approaching 16 1/2 years myself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. Great.

CALLER: And I have one question. My whole big issue is that, if these pedophiles, who are willing to go from many states away and be caught, law enforcement needs to just take and lock them up and throw away the key. This needs to be a nationwide problem taken care of.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I absolutely agree it`s a nationwide problem, and it needs to be taken care of. There is another side that I want to discuss. If all of this seems familiar, that`s because it is.

Now, just six weeks ago, 22 other allegedly sex crazed predators were busted about 70 miles away in Sumter County. I talked to the sheriff involved in that sting. Listen to this exchange.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sheriff, why did you decide to take this dramatic step and run a sting that seems to be, really, from the page book of "Dateline NBC`s" "To Catch a Predator"?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Jane, we -- we`re just tired of here in the state of Florida. We`ve got such a child predator problem within the state of Florida. All of the sheriffs of Florida banned together...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So that was back in March, and I mentioned "Dateline" for a reason. Remember in 2006 a Texas prosecutor busted on that show, and when cops came knocking on his door, he committed suicide. NBC got slapped with a $105 million lawsuit, which was settled for an undisclosed sum.

At that point legal experts began to talk about these undercover stings and asked, could they be unconstitutional? Now, we all want to lock up predators and throw away the key. Nobody more than me. But there is something called entrapment. So Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, when does it cross the line into entrapment? And exactly what is entrapment?

HONOWITZ: Well, entrapment is basically what the term is. You entrap someone; you force someone to commit the crime that they weren`t already predisposed to commit. And that`s what they have to look at. Is there a predisposition to commit this crime? Because certainly, if there`s chats going on between the defendant and the perpetrator and the undercover detective who`s posing as a child that he`s predisposed to commit the crime.

I think what happened in that case was the national -- that the cameras were all over it. There was national attention. You don`t have that in these stings. You don`t have -- you know, the cameras...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you have cameras.

HONOWITZ: ... standing there when you get arrested. You don`t have that on national television. And I think there`s a difference on why that guy committed suicide.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait a second. It`s national television, and we`re showing this right now, but we`re blurring the faces during this sting operation. We are trying to be judicious as we cover this.

And I`ve got to say, anybody who is involved in this as a suspect who wants to come on with their attorney, we invite them on. We want to be fair; we want to cover both sides. But presumably, these lives are going to be shattered, too. Come on.

HONOWITZ: Absolutely. But if you remember on "Dateline," Chris Hansen actually interviewed these people afterwards with the cameras in their faces. You don`t have that here.

Again, for entrapment, you need to see if there was a predisposition to commit the crime. And certainly, if there`s ongoing discussions about how to have sex with a child, where could we meet, where are we going to have this without the cops forcing or suggesting, then you don`t have an entrapment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Darryl -- Darryl, Hawaii. Your question or thought, Darryl?

CALLER: Thank you for having me on. I commend you for doing a story like this. Any way, when these guys are caught, they don`t spend much time in jail. What is the problem with that? We need to protect our kids much more. And they need to give them much more of a harsher sentence. Because these guys are sick and should not be in our -- should not be in our public preying on our children.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sonia Ossorio, 30 seconds. This is happening all over America. These guys caught but there are -- and again, they`re just accused, but there are many others who are doing this as we speak.

OSSORIO: Yes. You know, we have got to start -- law enforcement has got to get serious and start enforcing the laws that we have on the books. We see it all over the country. San Francisco, arrest rates for men are one, compared to 20 women that they arrest for prostitution. And that`s got to end.

And the other thing that we have to do is, our great challenge that we have as a society is for all of us to start talking about this issue, as Stacey said.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it there. Fantastic panel.

It`s only day two in the Casey Anthony trial. A massive snag. We`ll tell you next.



KOVARBASICH: Like throwing the blankets over and I got him, and then he came around, and I thought I got him in the eye.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That boy was convicted of killing a man. Does that boy deserve to be released after less than two years in prison? What if I told you the boy was allegedly molested by the man he killed?

Last year, then-16-year-old Daniel Kovarbasich killed his neighbor, whom he says sexually abused him for years. Daniel says he snapped, beating Duane Hurley over the head with a pickle jar and stabbing him more than 50 times. The sex abuse allegations did not come out until after Hurley was killed. His family denies he was a pedophile, though his computer allegedly contained thousands of pornographic images of seemingly underage boys.

Daniel was convicted of manslaughter last August and sentenced to five years probation. On Sunday he was allowed to start house arrest while the courts try to find a rehab facility that will treat him. So is this justice? Personally, I`m very, very conflicted. I go back and forth on this case.

Straight out to Beth Karas, a correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV. Beth, you`ve covered Daniels` trial. You`ve interviewed his parents. What are the two arguments on either side of this case?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, first of all, he got five years probation with a lot of conditions attached, Jane. The conditions were he`s not to be a free man. He had to go into an in-patient treatment facility, get his GED, and do other things, according to the judge.

But they couldn`t get him in the facility. This has been almost a year they`ve been trying to. Some facilities won`t take him due to the violence of the crime.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They can get Lindsay Lohan into a facility. Why can`t they get this guy into a facility?

KARAS: No one would pay. And so what they`re doing is they got him out on house arrest. He`s got a GPS monitor, and he`s going to apply for government benefits. You can`t apply for those benefits in jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But that`s not the point. I mean, what`s the point of -- people are furious that he`s out, because they say he killed someone. But then other people are like, hey, he was the victim in a sense, because he was allegedly molested by this guy, which the victim`s family says -- the dead person`s family denies.

KARAS: He got mercy from the judge. This was a bench trial, not a jury trial. And the judge reduced the case from murder to manslaughter. That`s where he got the mercy in being a victim.

He was not being attacked or molested at the time he killed this 55- year-old man, Duane Hurley. He thought that Hurley wanted something, but nothing was being done at that time. So he bashed him in the head with a gallon -- five-gallon jar of pickles or whatever it was, a big jar of pickles, and then stabbed him 55 times, sliced him, kept stabbing him even after Hurley was dead. This was seemingly unprovoked but the judge...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Didn`t he say -- I`m sorry to interrupt, but didn`t he say that this guy had molested him in the past and originally had lured him in, saying, "Walk my dog" and then...

KARAS: Yes, for four years -- for years Hurley had allegedly groomed him since he was 12. He was 16 at the time he got arrested, which was January 22, 2010. Anyway, he said it was, first, "I`ll give you something. I`ll give you money. I`ll let you drive my car if you show me your private parts." And then "Let me touch them" and then "You do this to me." And it, in typical sexual molestation fashion, escalated.

And this young man wanted it to stop. And the only way he could stop it was to kill him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Excellent reporting, Beth.

And now two days into jury selection for the Casey Anthony case, there`s already an unbelievable twist, explosion. We`ll have that next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Day two of jury selection for the trial of the century. Casey Anthony sits in court today as juror after potential juror speaks out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t feel like I could fairly -- I`ve already prejudged.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now the nation wonders, can they find 20 people who haven`t already made up their minds about Casey?

Also, is the "Terminator" terminated? Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver announce they`re separating after a quarter century of marriage. As rumors of infidelity and emotional abuse fly, what will the Governator do next? I`m taking your calls.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve already prejudged three years ago.

PERRY: And what is that opinion?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: A jaw-dropping stunner in day two of the Casey Anthony trial: half the jury pool summoned for the day suddenly and swiftly tossed out. Get out of here. Is jury selection more of a challenge more than anybody has anticipated? Check this out.


BERRY: Did anyone, while you were in the jury room this morning, another potential juror, talk to you or ask you about the case of the state of Florida versus Casey Anthony? Did it go further than just saying the name? Was there some conversation?

I think it is best that I let you go.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Because a lot of those potential jurors raised their hands; yes, we were chatting about it. Will opening statements really be able to start early next week? Can they really find an unbiased jury?

This roller coaster of a case is costing a roller coaster of emotion. Yesterday, Casey sobbed. You can see her there as the day kicked off. Today she held back a laugh, listening to the potential juror express concern over who`s going to feed his cat if he`s sequestered. Look how -- she`s -- look, she`s trying not to smile right there. See that little face?

Joining us tonight, a very special guest; he used to be the attorney for Lee Anthony, Casey`s brother.


LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: CMA, I miss you. I love you. CMA, I am so proud of you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Thomas Luka, thank you for being here. You used to be the attorney for Lee Anthony, Casey`s brother.

There is growing speculation tonight that Casey is going to blame a family member for little Caylee`s death since there have been so many rulings that lean towards the prosecution being able to show that little Caylee`s body was in the trunk of Casey`s car.

Already Casey has reportedly implied that her brother Lee, your former client and her Dad, George, molested her in some way when she was younger. Do you think the defense will point the finger at Casey`s family in some way, shape, or form?

THOMAS LUKA, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR LEE ANTHONY: That`s a tough question, Jane. I think that the problem that the defense is going to have is they can`t simply allege something like that. They are going to have to have some sort of evidence, some sort of testimony to back up whatever statement or whatever defense they are trying to portray.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yesterday, right here on ISSUES, we heard a bombshell from George and Cindy Anthony`s attorney, Brad Conway. Listen to this.


BRAD CONWAY, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY: Whatever he says in his opening comments, they will end up having to prove up and I think -- I kind of changed my position on this. I think that you will see Casey Anthony testify in this trial.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thomas, what do you think? Do you also believe that Casey will take the stand?

LUKA: Well, again, I agree with Mr. Conway. I think it`s going to depend on what Mr. Baez says in the opening statement on what he intends to show the jury or tell the jury what is going to happen during the trial.

Obviously --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he has said that in the first five minutes or two minutes of opening statements, he`s going to explain everything. Why she didn`t call for 31 days, why she went out and partied while her daughter was missing, why she got a tattoo that says "a beautiful life". So if he`s going to explain that in the first two or three minutes of opening statements, and she testifies, wouldn`t there be a nexus there? Isn`t she going to have to connect the dots as to his new theory?

LUKA: She will if she in fact testifies. But again, that`s if she testifies. It`s a very dangerous decision for a defense attorney to put his or her client up on the stand, especially in this kind of case where the stakes are so high. Albeit the death penalty.

I believe the defense is probably going to try to get out evidence from other witnesses in this case. Perhaps Jesse Grund, other relevant witnesses to or in Casey Anthony`s sphere of influence who might be able to lend credibility to any defense that they may put forth.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, here`s my big issue. And we`re going to go back now to the jury selection aspect of this case. Can we not ever escape the hype?

Nearly 50 potential jurors were literally tossed amass, out of court because a person listed as a witness in this case accidentally was summoned for jury duty and then reportedly chatted about the case in the jury room tainting the whole pool of 50 people. And gossiping is not the only problem. Listen to what one woman told the court today.

Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a niece that has had a lot of problems and it reminds me of her. I don`t feel like it`s fairly -- I`ve already prejudged three years ago.

BERRY: Ma`am, when you say you`ve already prejudged, have you formed an opinion as you sit here today concerning the defendant`s guilt or innocence?


BERRY: And what is that opinion?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yikes. And Casey Anthony is stone-faced there as that potential juror gave her opinion. Obviously she was tossed.

Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session", I don`t think that 106 miles from Casey`s home base, Pinellas County is going to mean anything when it comes to making jury selection easier. We live in a global village; we all watch television. What difference does it make that the jury has been selected 100 miles from where it all happened? None, in my opinion.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, I guess time will tell, right. You know, we haven`t even gotten to the pre-trial publicity. But this was just sort of an excited utterance that came out of this potential juror`s mouth when they were talking about hardships with her one on one. But when we get to the pre-trial publicity, we`ll have to see if juror after juror has an opinion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And apparently, as part of the jury pit pool, they picked somebody who used to be a volunteer searcher with Texas EquuSearch. So that`s the one who apparently tainted and poisoned that whole jury people; why 50 people had to be thrown out because she was a volunteer with Texas EquuSearch and she was walking around asking everybody questions about this case. This is unbelievable.

CASAREZ: And, Jane, that`s not all. She was on the witness list and we`ve heard it was a she on the witness list, but somehow got into the jury pool. And so it even makes matters worse. I hope it`s not an important witness to one side or the other.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I hope somebody gets a big giant smack on the wrist for that you-know-what up.

Cheryl, South Carolina, your question or thought, ma`am?

CHERYL, SOUTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Good evening. Good evening to the panel. I have a question. What was -- how would the jury react when Casey during her interviews with the police had said that her father and her brother had molested her? And that she had warned her brother that if it ever happened again, she would do blah, blah, blah? That in itself, would that have any impact on the jury or is she going to have to prove date and time and when that is or when it happened? And would Lee have to get on the stand and say, this never happened, blah, blah, blah?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an excellent question. I want to go to Pat Brown but I have to ask Thomas Luka, who used to be Lee`s attorney. Is he planning on being a witness in this case?

LUKA: He is.


LUKA: Yes, I`m sorry, Jean. He is actually -- Jane. He is actually listed both a witness for the state and the defense in this particular case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, is he going to say, "Hey, I didn`t molest her. She`s making it up." Or is he going to -- how is he going to handle that?

LUKA: Honestly, I don`t know what Mr. Anthony is going to testify as regards to that issue. I just know what he is going to testify to, which are the facts dealing with this case.

I don`t even know if the judge is going to even allow the defense or the prosecution to even get into that area of questioning, because it`s really irrelevant to this particular case unless the defense or the prosecution can make it relevant through some other testimony or evidence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Pat Brown, your theories and opinions on everything that we`ve discussed?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, that`s why I`m all for a professional jury system because this is the crux of it. I mean look at it. The defense is looking for people who live in some kind of a cave who have never watched any television or read any newspaper so they are going to be a bright group. And they`re also the same group that apparently can`t get out of jury duty. Who wants to be there for two months and lose all their income?

And secondly, what is the prosecution looking for? They are looking for people who lie. "Oh, I`ve never watched any television or read a newspaper and I don`t think she -- I don`t have any opinions as to whether Casey is guilty or not."

So ok, the defense wants stupid people and the prosecution wants liars. Is this the way to run a jury system?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you Pat. And I know you have TV (ph) tonight, but please come back soon. We`re going to get more of your incredible commentary because tomorrow we`re going to bring you a bombshell theory about out why Casey didn`t call the cops for a month while little Caylee was missing from somebody very close to the case.


JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: That question will be answered within -- within the first minute of me standing up for opening statements. And it will be put to rest for good.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are going to go on a limb tomorrow and we`re going to make a prediction about what Jose Baez will say that will explain everything in his opening statement. Watch tomorrow because we have a theory.

All right. Coming up next, we`re going to talk Arnold and Maria. Is their marriage terminated? Give me a call, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. We`re taking your calls on this.



ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, FORMER GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: Maria is an extraordinary wife and a great partner. She`s my partner; she`s best first lady that the state ever had.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bombshell news: Hollywood political power couple, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver`s 25-year marriage is headed to Splitsville, we are told. Before he was governor of California, we all knew Arnold obviously from his role in the "Terminator" movies. Check out this famous line -- we`ve all heard it many times -- from MGM.


SWARZENEGGER: I`ll be back.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But will Arnold be back or is the "Terminator`s" marriage terminated for good? Now, this couple is practically -- we all know -- an American institution. However, we`re hearing from several sources that this famous duo have been having their problems for years.

Listen to this cryptic YouTube video Maria herself posted about transitions.


MARIA SHRIVER, WIFE OF ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER: Like a lot of you, I`m in transition and people come up to me all the time and go, what are you doing next? What are you going to do? What are you going to come up with? I hope you`re getting time to relax and think and take a break. It`s so stressful to not know what you`re doing next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: TMZ reports Maria has considered leaving the Governator for more than two years allegedly saying, "He`s impossible to live with."

We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Delighted to turn to Harvey Levin, executive producer of TMZ and my good buddy; miss you, Harvey.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is the latest? How you doing? What`s the latest on this, this shocking split?

LEVIN: Well, shocking on the outside; on the inside, not so shocking. A lot of people who are close to them have said that for several years now, Maria has been miserable. And a lot of this has to do with Arnold`s ego and her perception of it, which is that everything revolves around him. She felt ignored. She had issues with womanizing, at least from her perspective.

But this was just a bad situation. She wanted to end it a long time ago. She didn`t want to do it while he was governor. She was about to do it and then her mom died. Then about to do it again and her dad died. Short story: a long time in coming.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, does it have a little bit to do with him leaving the Governor`s office? They even said that the personal and professional transitions for each of us are occurring. I wonder why leaving jobs would impact a marriage, though.

LEVIN: I don`t think that`s the case, Jane. I think that -- in fact, I -- from what I`m hearing very clearly, this was going on long before they left the governor`s office. She was willing to stick it out because of the fact that he was governor of California. But it was really bad for her.

And we are told even at a point their kids suggested that they call it. But Maria has moved out of the house; she is living in a hotel in the Los Angeles area. And, you know, right now Arnold is just begging to get her back. He wants her back.

This is very much one way. He is doing everything he can now. I`m told he`s being really sweet to her. And is doing, you know, what he can to resuscitate this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He should always be sweet to her.

Harvey, we have very little time but thank you so much. And by the way, I love your shirt with the little palm trees on it. Really cool.

LEVIN: You`re -- that`s the first compliment I`ve gotten all day. I took a lot of abuse in the newsroom today, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m always on your side Harvey. All right. Good to see you.

LEVIN: Thank you Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Splits are never easy but are Arnold and Maria sending mixed messages. Now TMZ reporting the couple spent both Easter and Mother`s Day together plus booked a stay at a luxury hotel for their recent silver anniversary.

But take a look at these new photos that jus surfaced today with Arnold looking very, very cozy with two unknown women. Now, this doesn`t look like a man in mourning.

I have to go to Lloyd Grove, editor-at-large at "Newsweek" and the "Daily Beast". You spent time with Arnold, you talked to Maria, I`m trying to figure this out. You hear that she`s upset. And he`s trying to woo her back. Then you see these pictures of Arnold kissing and these are apparently from either today or yesterday, recent pictures of him kissing these attractive young women. What do you think is going on, Lloyd?

LLOYD GROVE, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "NEWSWEEK": Well, those pictures, frankly, Jane, look a little innocent to me. Of course, Arnold has admitted in the past his rowdy behavior as he describes it. But Harvey says that Arnold is trying to win her back and Arnold can be a very persuasive person. So although their marriage right now seems to be on the rocks, I wouldn`t necessarily bet that it`s over forever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just find it fascinating because I was in California when he was running for governor and the scandal broke about him and she defended him.

We`re going to talk about that on the other side of the break.



SCHWARZENEGGER: Maria has, you know, always been a Democrat and chosen her candidates and I always have been a Republican and chosen my candidates. We respect each other`s point of view, and remember when I got married, I made it very clear when I was in front of the altar, I said I take this woman in sickness and in health. That`s her sickness, ok.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now word is this odd couple, attractive odd couple are splitting up. This isn`t the first scandal for the former governor of California. Let`s face it. He`s got a reputation as they say. In 2003 the "L.A. Times" accused Arnold of groping six women over the course of four decades.

Wendy Leigh you wrote a controversial book, "Arnold: The Unauthorized Biography". Why do you think they are breaking up?

WENDY LEIGH, AUTHOR, "ARNOLD: THE UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY: Well, I think it`s amazing they ever got together in the first place. Arnold from the beginning was a rampant womanizer. Even as far back as 1984 being with Maria for seven years. She caught him having an affair with a beautiful co-star. Maria however has always been a Kennedy who stood by her man no matter how many women that man has and Arnold sure had plenty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just have to stress that yours is an unauthorized biography and I cannot independently confirm anything that you`re saying, obviously. I wasn`t there.

This is something that`s been discussed and debated for a long time. And that brings me to my big issue: personal lives and politics. Should they mix?

During the "L.A. Times" groping scandal Maria stood by her man. And a lot of people say she was the reason why Arnold won because he could have been taken down by that groping scandal and she said, "No I`m standing by my man." Now that he`s left office looks like she`s leaving the role of wife.

It sounds like the lines between the political arena and personal relationships have been blurred; have been blended for this famous couple.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you give this fiery speech at the Republican convention. How long did it take you before you talked to each other?

SCHWARZENEGGER: Well, there was no sex for 14 days.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He loves to talk about sex in public one way or another.

Patrick, Texas, your question or thought.

PATRICK, TEXAS (via telephone): I just want to know what`s going to happen to the children, and why all of a sudden after 25 years is she leaving him especially when he needs her most?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Wendy, the caller is saying this is the time when Arnold needs Maria the most. He`s out of the governor`s office. We don`t know if he`s going to get his acting career back. Why leave now?

LEIGH: Well, I think it`s more a case of her leaving now. She has served her purpose for Arnold and at the same time I think she`s reached a breaking point. I mean (INAUDIBLE); she`s lost her father. She`s lost the most important man in her life and perhaps that`s now made she`s looked at Arnold and how he`s really failed her through the years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Lloyd, will you address all this rumor about womanizing? What do you know?

GROVE: I only know what I read in Harvey`s and Wendy`s work. Obviously, Arnold himself has admitted as much in the distant past. I don`t know anything about the recent past. I spent a few days with him just last month in Europe while he was going to Mikhail Gorbachev`s 80th birthday party in London. And also in Cannes where he was introducing the "Governator" cartoon series.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. On the other side, we`re going to tell you how he was (INAUDIBLE)


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lloyd, you talked to Maria a month ago. Did Maria Shriver give you any hints that things were on the rocks?

GROVE: Well, she was kind of in a very blue mood because her father had just died and she was grieving. And she was very supportive of her husband. It was for a profile piece for "Newsweek" and said some nice things about him.

But I get the sense that as with most of us when a parent dies you reassess. You realize life is finite and you kind of decide, do I want to go on like this or do I want to change my life around. I think she was at that point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy, 10 seconds, what`s next for the Governator?

LEIGH: More success. Arnold will always conquer whatever he seeks to conquer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s true. And whatever movie he is in, I`ll probably go see it because I loved the "Terminator" series. And it featured a very strong woman. And I know Maria Shriver is also a very strong woman.

And another strong woman, Nancy Grace up next.