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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Schwarzenegger Confesses to Love Child; Could Found Body be Kyron Horman?
Aired May 17, 2011 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the Terminator`s toxic secret. Former California governor and superstar Arnold Schwarzenegger confesses he`s had a secret love child for more than a decade.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, FORMER GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: We both love each other very much. We are very fortunate that we have four extraordinary children.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adding to estranged wife Maria Shriver`s heartbreak, the mistress is a longtime staff member who worked in the family home for 20 years. Is this the tip of the iceberg? And did Arnold keep a secret office for his mistress?
Plus, cops discover the body of a young boy wrapped in a blanket and dumped on the side of a remote road in Maine. Who is he and what happened to him? And could it be missing Kyron Horman?
Then, frustration and fireworks as Casey Anthony`s jury selection drags on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a reasonable doubt whether this juror can set his knowledge of pretrial publicity aside.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, there`s a brewing battle over which potential jurors the prosecution and the defense can strike, as a frustrated judge tries to wrap it up.
An astonishing revelation in the case of a father who was gunned down outside his child`s daycare center. Shocking new details in the alleged affair between the accused killer and the dead man`s widow. Did she know anything about his alleged plot to murder her husband? We`ll take your calls.
ISSUES starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHWARZENEGGER: Maria is an extraordinary wife and a great partner. And she`s probably the best first lady that the state ever had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, no, he didn`t. Yes, he did. Tonight, a celebrity love triangle bombshell. Arnold Schwarzenegger fesses up about a secret love child he fathered with a long-time staffer. The jaw-dropping revelation comes just one week after he and Maria Shriver announced their so-called amicable split.
Arnold released a statement, quote, "After leaving the governor`s office I told my wife about this event, which occurred over a decade ago."
Hey, Arnold, having a kid isn`t an event, like some charity gala.
"I understand and deserve the feelings of anger and disappointment, among my friends and family. There are no excuses, and I take full responsibility for the hurt I have caused."
Huh? Full responsibility? Really? Are you kidding me? After living a lie for a decade while you parade family values?
"I apologize to Maria, my children, and my family. I am truly sorry. I ask that the media respect my wife and children through this extremely difficult time. While I deserve your attention and criticism, my family does not."
Oh, now he`s worried about his family`s feelings, after betraying them, after lying to them for more than a decade. And what about this poor love child who`s about 10 years old now? Does he or she know who daddy is?
Check this out. Here`s Arnold shopping for toddler clothes in 2006 when the child would have been about 4 years old. "The L.A. Times" reports Arnold has supported this love child since birth. The paper says the mother was a household staffer who recently retired on supposedly good terms after working for this family for 20 years.
Did Maria Shriver realize her husband`s mistress was on the family`s payroll? Were others complicit in helping Arnold live a very complicated lie for a very long decade, with the other woman was right there under Maria Shriver`s nose?
In my humble opinion, this is sociopathic behavior. That`s right. I`m calling Arnold Schwarzenegger a sociopath. What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to Mike Walters, assignment manager with TMZ.
Mike, I just don`t know how many more bombshells I can take. What`s the latest? I heard Harvey talking on CNN about some secret office in Santa Monica?
MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: Right. Well, we`re learning, Jane, a lot more about how Arnold might have been able to pull this off. I mean, for over ten years he had a love child that his wife and his family didn`t know about.
And what we`re being told is he has an office in Santa Monica, where we are told many women, including some at like 1 to 1:30 a.m. in the morning are going in and out of this office, sometimes staying for hours. Also, there`s bedrooms in this office. This is more of like somewhere where he hangs out.
We are told, women, good-looking women going in and out of this place. This is one of the things we`re told might be something that kind of describes how Arnold was able to conduct this kind of business without his wife knowing and without anyone knowing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to say, you and I, Mike Walters, were working for Harvey Levin at "Celebrity Justice" when Arnold Schwarzenegger was running for governor. And we all know that more than a dozen women came forward and accused him of sexually harassing them, and there were many debates in the newsroom with people, well, he`s a good guy. Believe it, don`t believe it. That`s why I`m so upset.
If it was a private individual doing this, well, that`s their business. I`m not going to get involved. Nobody`s perfect. We all have hypocrisy. But the idea that he brushed off all these other women and made them look sort of foolish, really, saying, "Hey, well, I behaved badly sometimes, but really, there`s nothing to it. Nothing to see there. Move along, move along."
And then at the time that he was running for governor, this child had not only been conceived but had been brought on the world stage. And he was living a lie as he campaigned for governor, talking about family values, talking about how family is everything. Talking about how people who are single parents, that`s the danger. I guess it`s OK if it`s a secret love child and you have somebody acting like a beard as the father.
WALTERS: Right. But I mean, Jane, I mean, one of the things is remember, he settled a few of these cases with women who claimed that he groped them, but we had also an argument in our newsroom today that, whether or not Maria knew Arnold`s behavior. We`re talking 20 years ago that Arnold had some of these behaviors. Whether she knew, whether she cared? Did she know about this child?
One of the arguments going on right now in our newsroom is how much did Maria know? How much did she let go? And what is going to happen now?
And I can tell you what. Maria is already talking to a financial adviser how to split this money up in Arnold`s estate. So I don`t think they`re getting back together. I don`t think she`s letting this one slide.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Just one quick question: is this the tip of the iceberg? Are we going to see -- let`s have your boss, TMZ`s Harvey Levin, on CNN. Let`s hear exactly what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ: He has an office building in Santa Monica not too far from his home. And I am told that in that office building -- and we got this from people who were very familiar with the office -- that he would sometimes have women come into there, and there were two in particular, five to seven years ago, where they would come in and it was odd because they were both -- they both had legal-size manila envelopes. They would come in, almost in the middle of the night when he was there at 1 in the morning and stay there for hours behind closed doors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. A source close to Maria tells CNN that Arnold is way on the outside of the circle right now, rambling around their huge house with none of his family around. Before we go on to our other panel, Mike, are you going to have -- I have no way to independently confirm what you say about this office or other women.
Do you think there`s more to come on this story? In other words, is this just day one on a story that is going to get more explosive?
WALTERS: Absolutely. I mean, a lot of people in our business are getting closer to figuring out who this woman, who the child is. I can tell you that these women who worked in his office are separate from the women and the people that worked at his house. You`re talking about a lot of people who knew a lot of stuff about what Arnold was doing.
And what Harvey`s talking about is the behavior and the way that Arnold was able to conduct business, especially stuff like that, and no one to know about it. This guy was governor and this stuff was going on. How could no one know? I am telling you right now, this is going to be Tiger Woods. You`re going to see a ton of people come out of the woodwork: either children, mistresses, all kinds of people. This is going to go on for many days to come.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, Mike, thank you so much.
Here`s my big issue. Sins of the father. This secret child is the one, who`s really paying for Arnold`s sins, either this child -- think about it. If this child thinks his or her mom`s ex-husband is the father, which would be a lie, or if the child already knows that Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Terminator, the big superstar, is his father and has to keep this secret. Imagine the psychological pressure.
Either way, Arnold is guilty of committing serious psychological damage on this child, and obviously, Arnold`s other kids are suffering, too. His 17-year-old son, Patrick, tweeted today, "Some days you feel like bleep. Some days you want to quit and just be normal for a bit. Yet I love my family till death to us part."
Patrick Wanis, therapist. Boy, hats off to Patrick for taking the high road and showing love at a time like this when I think it would be justifiable to be very angry at your dad.
PATRICK WANIS, THERAPIST AND RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Well, yes. Obviously, yes, you`re right, Jane. But there`s going to be an impact, a trauma, a lot of pain for this child as he or she grows up. But we still have to look at what motivated Arnold to engage in this sort of behavior.
In 1887, Jane, Baron Acton (ph) said, "All power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." This is about power. This is about cheating and power.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Steve Santagati, Bad Boys Finish First, are you going to defend him?
STEVE SANTAGATI: Defend him? First of all, you know, it`s weird. I think that Tiger Woods should be calling him right about now going, how did you do it? How did you keep that woman quiet for all those years because that`s pretty amazing.
You`d have to wonder if Maria did know something about it, because it`s a child.
I don`t feel bad for the child. I don`t agree with that psychologist at all. Children are extremely resilient. The kid will be fine. The money will soften the blow on that one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, please. You know who your parents are. You weren`t told your parents were somebody else. Hold on. They should have a trust fund just for his psychological bills.
SANTAGATI: What blows my mind, Jane, what blows my mind is people are so ...
WANIS: Money doesn`t make up -- money doesn`t make up for a lack of love, a lack of attention.
SANTAGATI: I didn`t say it did. I didn`t say it did. Who said the kid didn`t have love? You don`t know that. Neither do I.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you`re telling a kid that he has to live a lie or she has to live a lie, or you`re lying to them, saying that`s daddy when it`s not daddy, or this is daddy, but you can`t say anything, because you`re not supposed to exist.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Go ahead.
KELI GOFF, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, THE LOOP21.COM: I was just going to say, I would challenge Steve to ask Strom Thurmond`s daughter, who had to lie about who her father was for, oh, five decades or so if she didn`t have any scars from that. I think it`s a little bit dismissive to the family members involved, who are the ones that my heart really goes out to. I mean, that`s who my heart really breaks for, all the children involved, and Maria.
Take a wild guess who my heart doesn`t break for, Jane. Which is, you guess it, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Because to your point, Jane, I thought you said it so well when you called him sociopathic, not because he made a mistake...
SANTAGATI: Come on.
GOFF: ... not because he made a mistake but because, as Jane pointed out, lots of us make a mistake. Every single one of us on this planet is not a perfect human being.
GOFF: ... to make a mistake like that, to know that -- to know that that`s in your background and to run for office.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to take a break. I`m getting the sign. We`re just getting started. Your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHWARZENEGGER: It is an honor to stand before you here to receive this honorary doctor of law degree. It is my first law degree. Finally -- finally, the Kennedys will think that I am a success story. And finally, Maria can take me home and please her family, finally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You may be correct on that (ph). I`d love to hear what Maria`s family is saying right now as Arnold comes clean about his secret love child with a staffer. This child now roughly 10 years old. Unbelievable story.
Mary, Louisiana, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Hi. Were this woman and her family live-in household staff? And Maria could not have possibly have been that naive that she did not know about this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Keli Goff, contributing editor to TheLoop.com, or TheLoop21.com, here`s what occurs to me. The betrayal is so deep because this woman was there for 20 years. So the last decade, this woman`s been around doing -- doing whatever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And not only that, but could there be an investigation, the way there was into John Edwards...
GOFF: The sound cut out a little bit, Jane, so I hope I`m not talking over you, but what I wanted to say really quickly is, the first thing my mother said when she heard this story had broken was, "My goodness, I bet Maria bought this baby, baby clothes. My goodness. I bet Maria threw this woman a going-away party when she retired." I mean, I think that that`s really what sort of cuts a lot of people to the core.
People make mistakes. People have affairs. But I think that there are certain lines that even in our culture where we`ve become more forgiving and accepting of second chances, that there are certain lines you don`t cross. The Shania Twain story of a best friend taking her man is one of them. And, you know, working for someone in their house, and they`re treating you well, is another. I think that`s part of the story.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let me -- let me get to this issue that you raised. Could Maria possibly have known about this explosive family secret? Check out this clip from today`s "The View".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, ABC`S "THE VIEW": It`s not like she doesn`t come from a family where the men in the family were all about a bunch of hound dogs. This is not new to Maria Shriver. I hate to be a cynic, but that`s a fact.
BARBARA WALTER, CO-HOST, ABC`S "THE VIEW": Her mother might very well have said -- until this story came out about that child -- "Live with it. Men do it."
WALTER: But other men -- you know, as you said, of the Kennedy family did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Here`s Maria`s statement. Quote, "This is a painful, heartbreaking time. As a mother, my concern is for the children." I think she means all the children. "I ask for compassion and respect for privacy as my children and I try to rebuild our lives and heal. I will have no further comment." Wow, how classy, how graceful.
I don`t think it`s fair to assume that she knew all along, but I do feel it`s fair to ask, Patrick Wanis, therapist and relationship expert, I`m in 12-step. I know a lot of times I`m co-dependent. And I think, at the very least, she`s been in denial and a little codependent, which is not an accusation. I have total compassion for her. But this is how co- dependency works. We remain in denial about the really bad behavior of our partner and sometimes we even help them clean up their messes.
WANIS: Well, the first thing, Jane, is that all women are highly intuitive and perceptive. They sense when something is wrong. It`s a gut feeling that there`s an affair or something else is going on, something else happening, No. 1.
No. 2, a lot of women tend to stand by their men, particularly if the man and the woman are both in the public eye. Eliot Spitzer`s wife came out and said, "You know what? I think I`m to blame. I`m inadequate; I didn`t look after him sexually."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t want to get into everybody who`s -- let`s stick with Arnold right now. OK. When Arnold was running for governor in 2003, more than a dozen women came forward, claiming he sexually harassed them. And some of the alleged incidents happened on movie sets, allegedly, Hollywood studio offices.
When the allegations came out, Maria fiercely defended her husband. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA SHRIVER, ESTRANGED WIFE OF ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER: You can listen to all the negativity, and you can listen to people who have never met Arnold or who met him for five seconds 30 years ago, or you can listen to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Steve Santagati, Maria Shriver fiercely, fiercely defended him when about a dozen women came forward and said, "Hey, this guy sexually harassed me, groped me," et cetera, et cetera.
SANTAGATI: But she does that out of loyalty. She does it first out of loyalty. She does it because of his political office.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Let`s see Steve.
SANTAGATI: Hold on, hold on. Australia, go back down under.
Now listen, Jane, two points. No. 1 is, look, Arnold cheated; it`s his fault. He made the mistake. But the fact of the matter is, Maria knew about his indiscretions before marrying him. She did the right thing as a wife to defend him on camera for the political campaign, but off set, off camera, she should have said to him, "Look, if you think that you`re going to pull this stuff when you`re married to me, I`m going public." Strong women, bad girls...
WANIS: ... stinks.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You weren`t there behind closed doors.
Thank you, expert panel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. BRIAN MCDONOUGH, MAINE STATE POLICE: He was a small kid, but I don`t think he was under nourished. He was a very cute boy, and again, he was clothed well. The sneakers were virtually brand new on him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, disturbing, baffling news out of Maine. The body of a young boy found dead, wrapped in a blanket, left on the side of a remote country road. Maine state police released this computer-generated photo of what the boy may have looked like while he was still alive. But as of now, this precious, beautiful boy has no name. Nobody has stepped forward to I.D. the body.
So police released a second photo. This time, of the little shoes he was wearing. This is just so heartbreaking.
Now, cops in Maine asking whether this is the body of Kyron Horman, the second-grader, who disappeared almost exactly a year ago. People from coast to coast are obsessed with the search for Kyron.
Victoria Taft, you`re joining us from Oregon, which is where Kyron disappeared. What do you know?
VICTORIA TAFT: Well, so far we understand that the authorities in Maine got in contact with the Multnomah county sheriff office in Portland and asked them about specifics regarding Kyron Horman. And after commiserating, after sending e-mails and trading notes, it comes now to the fact that this isn`t Kyron. That`s their belief. In fact, they stated unequivocally that it could not be Kyron, which raised red flags in my head, actually, Jane. And I just kind of wondered how it is that they know exactly that this is not Kyron Horman. Nevertheless, it`s been almost a year. Mother`s Day, Christmas...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re all wondering, what happened to the Kyron Horman case? One of the key players in the Kyron Horman case is, of course, the stepmother, Terri Horman. Now, police say she is the last person to see Kyron at his school before the child vanished. And authorities say, of course, that she failed lie detector tests.
Kyron`s dad has since filed for divorce and now believes that Terri was involved with Kyron`s disappearance. So what happened to this case, Victoria? We used to talk about it every day.
TAFT: That`s right. Well, what has happened in this case is this. It`s gone cold. They don`t know who did what. They sort of played their hand really close and then they played out the cards and said Terri Horman did it.
So now what has happened is Terri Horman`s divorce attorney is now playing the game where he wants her out of sight. They`re kicking the can down the road, asking for continuance upon continuance in the divorce case. She`s gone to live out of the media eye to her parents` house in Southern Oregon. And it was there on Mother`s Day that the -- Desiree Young friends went down and protested in front of Terri Horman`s family`s house saying...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that is friends of the biological mother? The friends of...
TAFT: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So they`re frustrated?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this guy, the father, right there, who originally had his arm around his wife and then later came to believe that she was responsible -- and I have to stress, she hasn`t been charged with anything. Nobody has been named a suspect in this case. I just find it so mind- boggling that they just didn`t get anywhere.
TAFT: Well, not so far. But then again, they always trot out the name Diane Downs and how it took nine months, many, many months to finally be able to charge her with a crime. So they`re biding their time. Now we have gone from full-on search and rescue to now a police investigation, a Multnomah County sheriff`s investigation, to now to a task force and now the FBI has basically taken point on this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got it. Leave it right there. Thank you so much, Victoria.
Casey Anthony fireworks next.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Frustration and fireworks as Casey Anthony jury selection drags on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: There is a reasonable doubt whether this juror can set his knowledge of pre-trial publicity aside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, there`s a brewing battle over which potential jurors the prosecution and the defense can strike as a frustrated judge tries to wrap it up.
And astonishing revelations in the case of a father who was gunned down outside of his child`s day care center; shocking new details in the alleged affair between the accused killer and the dead man`s widow. Did she know anything about his alleged plot to murder her husband? We`ll take your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, ACCUSED OF KILLING DAUGHTER: I as a mom, I know in my gut there`s the feeling of a parent. You know certain things about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that feeling, that presence. I know that she`s alive whether you have a bucket load of evidence downstairs that contradicts that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, drama in the Casey Anthony courtroom. The prosecution and defense battling over who to strike and who to keep; all the while the judge appears to be getting impatient and frustrated. Today`s crop of potential jurors were grilled about their private lives and how their personal beliefs could affect their verdict.
One woman came clean. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw pictures of Miss Anthony out partying, which to me did not look like a mother who was distraught over -- over not knowing where her daughter was. I heard her mother say it smelled like there had been a dead body in the car and then they tried to say that it was a pizza. I do believe she is guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why is Casey Anthony taking notes there? That woman didn`t make the cut by the way but it`s safe to say that she is one of thousands, if not millions who`ve seen these incriminating photos of Casey out partying during the month her daughter was quote, "missing".
Meantime the judge, is he rushing too fast? Judge Perry has said he might green light opening statements even if he doesn`t have eight alternates sworn. On a high-profile controversial case like this, hey you need a really deep bench. That could be a big mistake.
I`m taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, correspondent with "In Session", TruTV; Jean, you`re on the ground in Clearwater, Florida right outside of the courthouse. What is going on with this jury selection?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, Jane, it was a late day. I mean attorneys just left a little bit ago and we still don`t have a jury. We actually have 11 at this point; it`s seven women and five men -- all right, six women and five men. That adds up to 11. So they are going to bring in five back tomorrow. They are going to question them and it`s a long going.
Now the judge gave up the battle. He wanted to get this jury; he wanted to get those folks sworn in but it`s just not happening at this point because it was --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How many strikes does each side still have?
CASAREZ: It looks like the defense has one and the prosecution has three or four, a bit more, but then you have the alternates and they have strikes for the alternates.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a separate set of strikes for the alternates?
CASAREZ: Yes. They are getting additional strikes for the alternate; one strike for each alternate.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want Mark and Susan Filan -- and Susan and I were there at the Michael Jackson molestation trial for months on end. So hi Susan; great to see you again.
SUSAN FILAN, LEGAL EXPERT: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I`d like each of you to predict: when do you think we`re actually going to get to opening statements? Because I`m thinking it`s not going to happen before Monday? What do you think Susan?
Susan: Yes, I agree with you. It`s not going to happen until next week. The judge has to balance rushing this and getting this right. And he`s got to err on the side of getting this right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Mark?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, it`s not going to happen by Monday and he needs to slow down, Jane, because today I think he committed a major boo-boo, fundamental error, by denying the state an opportunity to strike one juror who claimed that she has difficulty sitting in judgment with someone -- huge mistake by the judge.
Now the prosecution is forced to have on that jury someone who may believe that she might be guilty but could express, well, I have difficulty now sitting in judgment. Who am I to say that she`s guilty? That to me shows how zealous he is in trying to get a jury at all costs.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you bring me to my big issue. Is Judge Perry hell bent on speed? He`s actually said he`s willing to go with fewer than the eight alternates he was shooting for at the start, quote, "We will have what we will have," end quote.
I think it`s a big mistake, especially in a high-profile trial like this where the jury is sequestered possibly for a long time.
My God, think about the O.J. Simpson trial. Halfway through the eight-month long double-murder trial, they`d already burned through eight jurors due to drama and scandal -- halfway through. The jury pool was already reduced from 24 to 16. Not good.
Now, Susan, shouldn`t that be a historical lesson for this judge considering the drama we have already seen and the potential for a lot more?
FILAN: I don`t think this judge is taking his lessons from watching trials on television. I think he`s watching what is going on in his courtroom very, very closely and very, very carefully. And what he is telling the lawyers is you cannot use jury selection to pre-try your case and you can`t ask every single juror every single question that you`d like to ask of every single witness at trial and then say, if you heard my jury questions, would you convict her and if you would and you`re the prosecutor, you`re off, and if you would and you`re the prosecution, then you wouldn`t.
In other words, you can`t pre-select your jury to get the outcome that you`re looking for.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but Susan, let me ask you this question. This woman says I don`t think I can judge anybody. I`m just not judgmental. And the state wants to get rid of her, of course. And he says no. I don`t think that`s right.
FILAN: He`s saying I won`t let you exercise a cause challenge. What she didn`t say was I think she`s guilty, I`m sure she`s innocent. She didn`t say she`s pre-decided this case. She says she has trouble sitting in judgment of somebody; not that she absolutely can`t or that she couldn`t be fair.
Now those are the things that you have to get rid of before the other one`s a discretionary. The exercise is discretionary. Don`t forget, you know, he`s sitting there. He`s feeling it. He`s hearing it. He`s sifting through. We`re hearing snippets after the fact, so it`s very hard to second guess, or Monday-morning quarterback, a judge`s discretionary call and that`s not something that a trial court usually gets reversed for on appeal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Pam, California, your question or thought, Ma`am? Pam.
PAM, CALIFORNIA, (via telephone): Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, how are you doing?
PAM: I`m doing fine. My question is, if she was saying that her father and brother molested her, and if this is true, why did she leave her child with them so much?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jean Casarez, this caller raises an excellent point. We`ve been hearing so much about this new bombshell the defense is essentially admitting, at least according to a former defense attorney that the Zanny the nanny took the baby is a lie. They`re going to come out with this dramatic new defense explanation in the first couple of minutes of opening statement. And there`s been a lot of speculation they are going to point the finger at the family in some way, shape, or form.
What do you know? What is the latest on that?
CASAREZ: Well, I don`t think we know but it`s going to come out in opening statements. Defense attorney Cheney Mason (ph) said to me on tape that people are going to find out things they have not heard before. But I think the state is going to pre-empt that or they`re going to try to say things just like, you babysat Caylee Anthony and they will go through it to show that Casey did let her daughter be with her father a lot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. And if she was so traumatized by her parents then why would she leave the child with them?
One of the most emotional moments of the courtroom today was when a female juror in her 30s nearly broke down. Listen carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because honestly, I`ve been praying for her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve been praying for who, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say you`ve been praying, can you share with us, what those prayers are for? What are you praying for?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mercy for her. I just wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t want to be a part of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That woman was excused, but look at Casey Anthony`s expression. Oh, my gosh. Mark Eiglarsh, what the heck is note-taking about? Every time you see her, she`s taking notes. Is she just doodling or doing smiley faces?
EIGLARSH: No, she`s doing exactly what I tell my clients to do in every trial. Take a pen, write stuff down. I don`t care if you`re writing to your diary. Look like you are into the case.
That`s not suggesting that she`s not and this is manufactured. But think about it. They are looking over; they are judging her at every single moment. You can`t lose if you`re taking notes. If you`re looking down, it looks like you`re into the trial, you care about your outcome and you are determined to see this through and find yourself -- somehow get a jury to find you not guilty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The only time we say Casey actually cry is when the judge read the charges against her last week. Now as far as we can tell, she`s not really acting panicky or concerned when jurors ask about the death penalty. If Casey is convicted and sentenced to death, she would not be the first or only woman, that`s for sure.
Remember Aileen Wuornos -- they did a movie about her. She was convicted and sentenced to death for the murders of six men in Florida between 1989 and 1990 and she died by lethal injection in October 2002.
So, Susan Filan, do jurors take gender into account even subconsciously given that this is a death penalty case?
FILAN: I think to some extent they do. But when you look at a mother accused of killing her baby, they are going to be even harder on her than they might be on a man. So in one way gender might work against her if she`s just a little lady sitting on death row but it`s going to cut against her very hard if she`s a mother that killed her own child.
Jean Casarez, we saw that Casey had this thing with her hand the other day where her hand suddenly froze up and she was escorted out. Some people wondered: is she acting; did that mysteriously disappear or is she still showing signs of some kind of mysterious injury?
CASAREZ: No. She`s more relaxed but it was what I have been told a stress attack.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s certainly understandable. I mean imagine sitting there and hearing people talk about the fact that they think you`re guilty and talk about, are you willing to do the death penalty? I mean it really is what you would call a reality check for a young lady who has lived in fantasy for so much of her life.
Thank you fantastic panel; come back soon. We`re going to stay all over this. And Nancy Grace will, of course have all the latest developments in the Casey Anthony trial on HLN tonight right at the top of the hour.
Investigators uncover what they say is a love triangle murder case. A father gunned down outside his child`s day care center in broad daylight. Now we`re getting shocking new details of what was going on behind the scenes leading up to this. You won`t believe it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE SNEIDERMAN, VICTIM`S BROTHER: My brother was murdered. No one should have to face that. Our family has been devastated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shocking new details in the Atlanta day care execution case. Cops say a love triangle gone sour ended with a man gunning down his lover`s husband while the victim was dropping his kids off at day care. I have to say that slowly so we can all take it in -- complicated.
Investigators say this man, Hemy Neuman, was having a steamy affair with his co-worker, Andrea Sneiderman. Cops say as the affair progressed, Neuman decided to rent a van, wear a fake beard and allegedly execute her husband, Rusty Sneiderman, at point-blank range.
Shocking new courtroom documents show the very same day, cops say Neuman killed Sneiderman, he also collected the widow`s work computer, allegedly to erase proof of their illicit affair. And just today, Hemy Neuman`s lawyers were in court trying to seal any pre-trial motions from the media. But boy, we`re getting the details and they are salacious. They are shocking, really.
And I`m taking your calls on this, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 586-7297.
Straight out to Veronica Waters, reporter for WSB Radio; Veronica, dare I ask, what is the latest on this thing?
VERONICA WATERS, REPORTER, WSB RADIO: Well, Jane, you laid out the two biggest things that we`ve seen happen within less than a week. Number one, Thursday, we saw court documents filed in Fulton County on behalf of Ariela Neuman, Hemy Neuman`s estranged wife, Esther Panitch and several court documents say that there was an affair between Hemy Neuman and Andrea Sneiderman. And they have the proof of it she says.
She talks about trips that the couple took together: to South Carolina, to the UK, to Scotland. She talked about the fact that there were hundreds of text messages that were exchanged between Andrea Sneiderman and Hemy Neuman both before and after Mr. Neuman allegedly shot Rusty Sneiderman to death in front of that day care last November.
And of course this kind of attention that we`re giving to this affair is what has been in the spotlight so Hemy Neuman`s attorneys are saying we need to put some of this stuff under seal. This is way too salacious and how can Hemy Neuman get a fair trial with an unbiased jury when all they can think about is some sexual affair Hemy Neuman and Andrea Sneiderman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not fair because of the affair. Oh, well, you can argue that but we have some of the details. Not only is Neuman sitting in jail for the alleged murder of his co-worker`s husband but he`s in the middle of a nasty divorce, which certainly makes sense.
Now, the wife says, the estranged wife who wants to divorce the defendant says, not only was he cheating on her, but then he had the nerve to put the family at a very meager budget while allegedly wining and dining his mistress, whose husband he allegedly executed ultimately. But to add insult to injury, the wife who wants to divorce this guy now says since his arrest he has not sent any money to her or his three kids.
Mark Eiglarsh, wow. Even if he`s acquitted, he does win the prize for cad. Well, maybe not.
EIGLARSH: You mean the fact that he -- hey, Jane, the fact that he allegedly shot in cold blood someone not in self-defense just because doesn`t make him bad enough. We have to pile it on? Yes, this guy, assuming he is guilty -- and again, we`ll give him the presumption of innocence because we need to -- looks really bad. None of this however, I think, should play a role in the criminal case. It doesn`t have any relevance.
I mean it`s either self-defense or he didn`t know what he was doing at the time allegedly. But all this other stuff is very, very sensational and very prejudicial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have what I call the million dollar question. Does Andrea Sneiderman know anything? And if so, when did she know it? So far Andrea, who was allegedly having the affair with the defendant, has only made a short statement calling Hemy Neuman, the defendant, the alleged killer, quote, "my former boss, a person who we thought was a friend of our family." End quote.
Well, not exactly. Cops say these two were a lot more than just friends. We have reached out to Mrs. Sneiderman`s attorney and the suspect`s as well. We have not heard back. But either one of you are invited on the show any time to tell their side of the story.
So I`ve got to ask you, Veronica, are they investigating her? What is the possibility that she might be -- I mean --
WATERS: That she might be knowledgeable about what happened between - - or allegedly happened between Hemy Neuman and Rusty Sneiderman in those moments before Rusty Sneiderman was killed? You know, we do know that Andrea Sneiderman had talked to police in Dunwoody last year sometime after the death but --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side we`ll finish that answer. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SNEIDERMAN: My sister-in-law has had an entire lifetime of dreams ripped from her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was the victim Rusty Sneiderman`s brother crying over what his sister-in-law is going through. Again Rusty Sneiderman allegedly executed at point-blank range by the man who was the supervisor of the victim`s wife and was also allegedly having an affair with the victim`s wife.
Sherry, Kentucky, your question or thought, ma`am.
SHERRY, KENTUCKY (via telephone): I`m just wondering if the suspect had made any inclination that Mrs. Sneiderman was involved or knew about the plan to kill her husband at all?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, good question. Veronica Waters I was asking you the status. She has issued a very simple statement. Have police talked to her? I would think, obviously.
WATERS: They have talked to her at least once that we know of. Of course, police and investigators from the district attorney`s office, no one has ever implicated Andrea Sneiderman in connection with this case.
It`s my understanding from what I`m hearing behind the scenes that Hemy Neuman has not implicated anyone in this case let alone acknowledged any sort of guilt. He`s going to trial in October as planned and he is professing his innocence.
You may or may not know that among the divorce filings, the papers filed by Ariela Neuman`s attorney there was even some statement by Andrea Sneiderman made early on after she met Hemy Neuman she didn`t want to start an affair with him while she was still married. There`s also some indication from those same filing that Hemy Neuman found out about an insurance payout that would go to Andrea in the event of her husband` death.
But again, no indication that Andrea Sneiderman could have possibly known that anyone had gun sights on her husband; whether or not Hemy Neuman did this is still to be seen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Obviously, he`s accused. The alleged tryst quite the international affair, however. The pair worked together in Atlanta and prosecutors say the evidence shows that the two took trips to South Carolina, England and Colorado twice. Now, according to these investigators these were not all work trips and apparently he was wining and dining her, Mark Eiglarsh, at the very same time that he was telling his wife we got to cutback way back on the budget.
So I guess when somebody tells their spouse cut way back on the budget, you should think, maybe there`s another reason than I didn`t pick my stocks right or something.
EIGLARSH: Yes. And, again, for the reason why the guy appears to be a creep, my concern, however, is because the deceased`s wife is apparently minimizing her involvement with the defendant that somehow people are then pointing the finger she must be lying, thus she must have known something. I don`t think they will ever get to that point assuming she even knew anything because the best witness is the one who`s facing life imprisonment for gunning this guy down.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is by big issue. I wrote a book by this title, "Secrets can be Murder". When you`re engaged in something secretive and you`re hiding, lies can only be protected one way -- with other lies. And then the lies build up and they build up and they build up and all of a sudden they become really unmanageable.
And sometimes when lies become too unmanageable they can explode in violence. And this is really a lesion in the danger of leading a double life and who pays the price.
Thank you so much fantastic panel for joining me.
And I`m going to be back in a moment with the latest on botox lady.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": We cannot confirm that the child has actually been removed from the home. And there are a couple of reasons why. There seems to be a discrepancy on whether or not we actually got her real name; whether it`s actually Kerry Campbell or whether she lives in San Francisco. That`s what she told us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: New developments in the custody case of a mom who admitted giving her 8-year-old daughter botox injections on ABC`s GMA. RadarOnline now reporting this girl is not in foster girl but that Child Protective Services did put her in the care of a family that lives nearby her San Francisco home.
An insider told RadarOnline that the little girl misses her mom and doesn`t understand why this is happening and that she thinks it`s somehow her fault. I think this mother`s reckless behavior is absolutely maddening. To her I say you may be able to erase a wrinkle even though one doesn`t exist but I hope somehow your 8-year-old daughter is able to erase the psychological damage of this traumatic experience.
Nancy Grace is next.