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NANCY GRACE

George Anthony and Defense Attorney Clash at Trial

Aired May 26, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash. The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way.

Tot mom`s lawyer tells a stunned courtroom she has nothing to do with Caylee`s death, but instead blames her own father, former police detective George Anthony, claiming he shows up with Caylee`s dead body. And instead of calling 911, he hides the body, leaving it to rot.

Tot mom then claims father George and brother Lee sexually molest her since age 8. And another wild theory, tot mom says meter reader Roy Kronk actually steals Caylee`s body, hides it, redeposits it to collect a reward. A parade of tot mom`s live-in lovers, roommates, friends testify.

Bombshell tonight. As a hushed jury looks on, tot mom`s lover takes the stand to reveal after Caylee goes missing, tot mom spends the whole day laid up in bed with him, never leaving the bedroom all day, only leaving to rent a movie from Blockbuster. We have the video. He says tot mom happy, carefree after Caylee disappears, but also says tot mom reveals an explosive secret just before she`s arrested.

Then the courtroom explodes when father George takes the stand and nearly comes to blows with defense attorney Jose Baez. This as we obtain video of yet another shopping spree, the third that we know of, in the days after little Caylee is killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: My life and my wife`s life, when this started for us, we`re running on fumes, going day by day, just trying to find my granddaughter. And some of these things that you`re asking me to be specific on, I`m trying to do the best I can. There are some things that I might not remember exactly. I think that happens to anyone. But when you get into this thing with you and I, sir, you are going off in a way to get me more upset, and I don`t think that`s fair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had told the friends that she couldn`t come pick them up to hang out with them because she was having car trouble or that she got a flat tire, something of that nature. And as she hung up, she said -- she kind of threw the phone down in the dashboard and just said, Oh, my God, I`m such a good liar.

GEORGE ANTHONY: The last time I saw Caylee -- - I saw my granddaughter Caylee was June 16th, 2008.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: June 16th of 2008. Did you see the defendant that day?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you describe her demeanor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy. Happy to see me, having a grand old time.

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Tony hasn`t seen Caylee since the beginning of June.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The following day did you spend with her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I did. Didn`t feel like leaving my bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`d rather spend your day with Casey?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You started dating Casey in February 2008?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you post this on your MySpace?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just a joke. I found it humorous at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever mention chloroform to Casey?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Not that I recall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can Tony tell me anything?

CASEY ANTHONY: Hey, Tony doesn`t know anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You and Casey sharing secrets. Was that secret told before Casey got arrested?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Tony have anything to do with Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, Tony has nothing to do with Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. So why do you want to talk to him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Anthony, would you like to answer my question now.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You are badgering me. You`re trying to get me upset, sir. Treat me with a little respect and you`ll get respect back. That`s all I`m asking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. As a hushed jury looks on, tot mom`s lover takes the stand to reveal after Caylee goes missing, tot mom spends the whole day laid up in bed with him never leaving the bedroom all day, but also swears tot mom reveals an explosive secret just before she`s arrested.

And the courtroom explodes when father George takes the stand and nearly comes to blows with defense attorney Jose Baez.

Straight out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO joining us from outside the Orlando courthouse. Everybody, we are camped out here outside the courthouse, bringing you the latest of what went down in the courtroom today in the trial of Casey Anthony, tot mom, accused in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl.

Drew Petrimoulx, first I want to hear about Anthony Lazzaro and his testimony that as soon as Caylee goes missing, within 48 hours, she`s laid up in the bed with him for the entire day. In fact, they -- he says on the stand under oath they never leave the bedroom, and she`s entirely happy.

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Yes, Nancy. June 16th would have been the last time anyone ever saw Caylee Anthony alive. June 17th, Tony Lazzaro, Casey Anthony`s ex-boyfriend, testified in court that he was laying in bed with her basically the whole day. They never really got out of bed.

Of course, the night before, they were caught on surveillance camera - - surveillance video renting movies at Blockbuster. This would have been the night of and the day after Caylee Anthony, even by defense attorneys` perspective, was found dead in a pool, or by prosecutors perspective, was murdered by her mother.

GRACE: OK, Liz, let`s see the video that we have obtained of tot mom. And this is the night Caylee goes missing. Let`s see it in full, please, Liz. There is tot mom. She`s going to be -- there she is, arm in arm with Lazzaro, strolling the aisles at Blockbuster. This is within hours after prosecutors say she murders her 2-year-old little girl, wraps duct tape across her mouth and nose after chloroforming her and then puts her in the trunk of tot mom`s car, and that night is out at the Blockbuster.

The next day -- to Natisha Lance, also with us here outside the courthouse. The next day, they spend the whole day in bed, never even leaving the bedroom. Is that what Lazzaro had to say?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. And he said they stayed in bed all day, even to the point where he played hooky from school. He didn`t want to leave his bedroom with Casey Anthony.

And to your point, Nancy, about the 16th -- this is so significant. I think it`s going to hurt the defense ultimately if they`re going with this story that Caylee drowned in the pool. Just a few hours later, she`s seen at that Blockbuster with Tony Lazzaro renting two movies, "Untraceable" and "Jumper."

And there`s also, Nancy, the flurry of phone calls that Casey Anthony made. She made three phone calls to Tony Lazzaro that day, starting at 1:00 PM, and it`s not really jibing with what the defense is saying so far.

GRACE: And speaking of the movies she rented. "Untraceable" -- isn`t that the movie that has a scene where someone`s body, a human body is put into a car trunk?

LANCE: That is the movie "Untraceable," and "Jumper" is a movie about a mother who abandons her child.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Louise in Pennsylvania. Hi, Louise. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, number one, if this was an accident and the baby actually did drown, how did the baby end up with duct tape over its mouth in a trash bag and thrown, like, away like a piece of garbage? Number two is she`s never sexually molested. I know. I have been sexually molested. I belong to a group. None of us ever acted the way she does.

GRACE: Well, I tell you what, Louise in Pennsylvania. Speaking of how people act, the defense is going to argue in closing arguments, mark my words, that there`s no playbook for showing your grief or your mourning, as they claim tot mom was grieving about the death of her daughter.

But you know what? Go ahead and tell that to somebody like you who has been molested. Tell that to some mother sitting on a jury, some mother, like me, who for two minutes loses your child in the grocery store or the Toys `R Us, and you expect a mother who has just lost their child to be laid up in bed with a boyfriend all day long, never leaving the bedroom? No.

Paula Bloom, clinical psychologist, I don`t care what they say, that is not -- that`s not going to fly with a jury.

PAULA BLOOM, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. Listen, Nancy, I`ve been on your show several times saying people cope in different ways. Let`s not judge based on someone`s reaction. This is so outside the realm of what makes sense, it`s not going to fly.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Judge Alex -- Judge Alex Ferrer joining us tonight out of Orlando -- Eleanor Odom, National District Attorneys Association, death penalty-qualified, out of D.C., Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta, and high-profile lawyer Richard Herman out of Vegas.

Eleanor, come on! The baby, she says, has an accidental drowning. The state says she was murdered. And she spends the whole day, according to the boyfriend under oath, laid up in bed with him? Uh-uh. No.

ELEANOR ODOM, NATIONAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOC.: That just shows evidence of guilt and her complete disregard for her child`s life, Nancy. I mean, what could scream louder that she doesn`t care about her own child?

GRACE: And to you, Ellie Jostad. I want to quickly address Louise in Pennsylvania`s other question before I get to the lawyers. Ellie, about the duct tape. If she were drowned in the swimming pool -- which now the defense has largely been discredited on that, on the whole theory -- but if she did, about the duct tape -- didn`t the state say in their opening statement they could prove that duct tape was put on little Caylee`s mouth and nose pre-mortem, before her death?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, they did, Nancy. In fact, they laid it out that the duct tape was the murder weapon, that there was no reason for putting three overlapping pieces of duct tape over Caylee`s mouth and nose unless the intent was to kill her.

GRACE: To Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. What`s the point of putting duct tape on the child`s nose and mouth, pursuant to Louise in Pennsylvania`s question, if the child has already been drowned?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.

GRACE: What`s the point? If the child accidentally drowned, why the duct tape? Let`s hear your best theory.

PETER ODOM: Nancy, it`s something that the defense is simply going to have to ignore. There`s just no way to explain that consistent with innocence. That is going to be the critical piece of evidence in the case. The only thing they`re going to do -- I believe they`re going to do is try and tie that duct tape somehow to George. And that`s why Baez kept saying, Follow the duct tape.

GRACE: Well, you know, what, Peter? You`re dead on because that`s exactly what happened a couple of hours ago. Isn`t that right, Natisha? They are trying to tie duct tape to George in court. And that`s when George and Jose Baez, defense attorney, nearly came to blows.

LANCE: You could have cut the tension in the courtroom with a knife today, Nancy. George Anthony was on the stand. And these gas cans have become a huge issue. You saw Jose Baez in his opening statement say, Follow the duct tape, and that duct tape was on the gas cans and the defense is trying to find out more about it.

GRACE: Father George Anthony back on the stand in court in the last hours. He withstands cross-examination.

We are live in Orlando.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) first contacts with her, was it all through e-mail?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably through FaceBook.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy. Happy to see me, having a grand old time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does this appear to be a fair and accurate representation of the defendant participating in the contest?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did there appear to you to be a lot of love between Caylee and Casey?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony looking for her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By the 18th of June...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You and Casey sharing secrets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you and the defendant sharing secrets?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She brought her daughter over and we went down by the pool.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your turn, Mr. Lazzaro. I asked him to remain outside. The defense had requested to proffer (ph) his testimony. So don`t do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, bringing you the latest in the case of Casey Anthony, tot mom, in the murder of her daughter, 2-year-old little Caylee.

I want to go back to Ellie Jostad. George Anthony, father George, called back to the stand today to clear up an issue about gas cans. What do gas cans have to do with this case?

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, there`s a little piece of tape on the gas can, and that tape matches, according to the state, the tape that was around Caylee`s mouth. So they`re, you know, trying to establish when the tape got on the gas can, who put it there.

George Anthony explains that he believes he did put the tape on the gas can. He said it was because there`s a little vent on the side and the cap was missing, so he put a piece of tape over the vent so that the gas fumes wouldn`t get out and fill out his shed. That was his explanation for that.

GRACE: Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter, Radaronline.com, also covering the trial. You know, it seemed to me that Baez was intentionally goading George Anthony. And I`ve got to tell you something. Between the two of them, I think George could take him.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Absolutely. When George got called off the stand to come down onto the floor of the courtroom to write things on that calendar, they were very close to each other. It was very tense. He`s really angry with Baez. He says he`s badgering him, he`s trying to upset him. And Baez is just playing into it. He`s asking him questions that...

GRACE: Wait! Right there. Right there. Right there. Hold on, Alexis. Right there, I thought George was just going to reach out with one hand and just lift Baez up and just shake him like a rag doll. But he didn`t. Go ahead.

TERESZCUK: No, he`s actually -- he`s actually shown a lot of restraint. He said, You`re badgering me. You`re only asking me these questions to intimidate me and to upset me. And the judge has overruled a lot of the questions that Baez has been asking. He, in fact, admonished him. He said, you know, This can that you keep talking about, there`s only a picture of it. It hasn`t even been entered into evidence yet.

GRACE: You know, Judge Alex Ferrer, host of "Judge Alex," joining us also here in Orlando, with us at the courthouse -- you know what this is all about. Baez is trying to make George Anthony, father George Anthony, lose his temper to make it look like somehow he`s involved in all of this. And I don`t know how they`re going to do it -- I`ve got an idea -- but they`re going to try to tie George and those gas cans into something nefarious linked to Caylee. I guarantee it, be it the duct tape, the gas cans. I`m not sure yet what. But they are trying to make George Anthony lose it in front of this jury.

JUDGE ALEX FERRER, HOST, "JUDGE ALEX": Absolutely. You`re absolutely right, Nancy. He`s got to paint George Anthony as an evil guy, first of all, for the jury to believe that he was sexually molesting his daughter, which we don`t know if he was or he wasn`t. But that`s central to his defense because it goes to explaining why Casey is so used to burying secrets that she didn`t say anything about the fact her daughter`s missing. The jury`s never going to buy that.

Secondly, I think that the reason that the story has him holding the baby is so that if somehow, there`s a problem with drowning, they can say, Well, Casey didn`t find it. He did.

GRACE: OK. Richard Herman, joining us out of Vegas, what do you think?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you know, just because the district attorney stands up in their opening statement and says that the duct tape was put on before the baby died, that`s meaningless. They have to prove that. And so far, the only person that they have tied to the duct tape is George Anthony. He has an obligation to take the stand and answer questions, not tell the district -- not tell Baez, Look, you`re getting under my skin. You`re upsetting me. Answer the questions under oath and be truthful! He can`t. He`s a whackjob, is George Anthony!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GEORGE ANTHONY: Whenever you have gas inside of a can and it gets a very fumy type thing, it could explode.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

GEORGE ANTHONY: Shut up! Shut up!

Again, you`re not being specific with me. You have to be specific with me. So give me a date, and I`ll answer.

If you don`t want to be knocked down, get out of my way!

No, sir, you`re -- you are badgering me.

The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s (SIC) car is not my granddaughter!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) July 31st (INAUDIBLE)

GEORGE ANTHONY: You`re trying to confuse me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neither one of the gas cans had duct tape on it?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Again, you`re not being...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, where tot mom on trial for the murder of her 2-year-old baby girl, Caylee.

There you see some video we got exclusively for you yesterday. That is Caylee`s 2nd birthday. There she is at the patio, right beside the aboveground pool belonging to the Anthonys. Let`s see the video of the shopping spree, the latest shopping spree. This time JCPenney was the target for tot mom. OK, here you go.

To Ellie Jostad. Ellie, when was this shopping spree?

JOSTAD: This is on June 27th, Nancy, and that`s a key date. That`s that same day that Casey Anthony runs out of gas at the Amscot. Tony Lazzaro comes and picks her up there. He said he never got out of the car. And then later that day, they go to this JCPenney and go shopping.

GRACE: So that`s June 20. There they are, shopping...

JOSTAD: 27th.

GRACE: We`re going to follow this up with the video of her at Blockbuster and the video of her at Target.

So what`s with that, Richard Herman? Your daughter goes missing and/or drowns and/or was murdered, and you`re at one shopping spree after the next.

HERMAN: Hey, Nancy, just try to be objective...

GRACE: Hey, Richard.

HERMAN: ... with me one second here. Listen, when victims of incest...

GRACE: Listening.

HERMAN: ... act in certain ways, that`s what`s going to happen. They`re going to bring in experts and clinical psychologists to say this behavior is consistent with an incest victim.

GRACE: Really? Because you just heard a molestation victim tell you that this behavior is unlike anything she`s ever seen amongst her support group of child molestation...

HERMAN: I guarantee you...

GRACE: ... victims. But I guess you know better, isn`t that right...

HERMAN: I do.

GRACE: ... Richard Herman?

HERMAN: Yes, it is right.

GRACE: What about it, Eleanor Odom?

ELEANOR ODOM: Victims of incest may tend to act out sexually and be maybe more promiscuous, but I haven`t seen any of them go out, and you know, cover up murders and go on huge shopping sprees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any of the times that you saw the defendant at Fusian, did you ever notice anything about -- anything wrong with her demeanor, like she was upset?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or crying?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or sad?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY ANTHONY, SUSPECT (via telephone): There`s something wrong. The media completely misconstrued everything that I said.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She kind of threw the phone down in the dash board and just said, oh, my god, I`m such a good liar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She used to knock out her toddler daughter so she could go out at night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you describe her demeanor?

ANTHONY: Nobody is letting me speak.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Searches that were found on Casey`s computer about how to make chloroform and neck breaking and that sort of thing.

ANTHONY: My daughter has been missing for the last 31 days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She never told you that her child was missing?

TONY LAZZARO, EX-BOYFRIEND: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or been kidnapped?

LAZZARO: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve tried to contact her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he actively looking for her?

LAZZARO: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 31 days. 31 days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She killed an innocent angel baby just so she could go out and be a party girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey and Caylee would sleep with you three to four nights a week?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While we were dating, yes, that is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three to four nights a week, Caylee would sleep in between you and Casey?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, Casey would sleep in the middle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey would sleep in between myself and Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would never be intimate with Casey with Caylee in the bed, would you, or did you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as the relationship is going right then and there, was it going well?

LAZZARO: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had you had any fights?

LAZZARO: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disagreements?

LAZZARO: Nope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She stayed the night that night, correct?

LAZZARO: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The following day, did you spend it with her?

LAZZARO: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you go to classes?

LAZZARO: No, I played hooky.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You played hooky?

LAZZARO: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you play hooky?

LAZZARO: Didn`t feel like leaving the bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn`t feel like what?

LAZZARO: Didn`t feel like leaving my bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`d rather spend your day with Casey?

LAZZARO: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Critical moment in the trial. Her lover Tony Anthony Lazzaro on the stand stands up and points to tot mom. She has to stand in the courtroom.

To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, did they exchange glances? Would they look at each other in the face?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: It`s kind of hard to tell from where we`re sitting in the gallery to see exactly who was looking at who. But at that point, the prosecution wanted to get this established for the record that this whole time Tony Lazzaro was talking about Casey, his ex-girlfriend. So the prosecutors asked the judge to have her stand up. He pointed her out. It was kind of awkward moment but it`s kind of hard to tell if they`ve been looking at each other through the whole time.

I will tell you she has been spending quite a lot of time looking at the jury.

GRACE: Drew, Drew, Drew, what`s awkward about it?

PETRIMOULX: Well, because I think everybody in the court would assume that he`s talking about Casey Anthony who is the defendant. They had this interview had been going on, this questioning had been going on for at least an hour or two and it was sort of towards the end that the prosecution pointed out that they wanted to state for the record that he was talking about Casey Anthony the defendant, the person that is sitting right over there that we`ve been talking about this whole time.

GRACE: Right. It may be awkward to you, but in legal circles, that has to be done in court. An eyewitness identification that that is the person you are talking about. That happens in practically every criminal case that`s ever gone before a jury.

Everybody, we are taking your calls.

To Natisha Lance. I want to ask about these shopping sprees, number one. Everyone, we are camped outside the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest of what went down in the courtroom today in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony accused of the murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.

What was the explanation for the shopping?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The JCPenney shopping, Nancy, she was there buying shoes. And at the other shopping sprees that we`ve seen her on she went to a Target where she was buying nightgowns and nighties. She also bought beer, and she went to another Target where she bought the sunglasses and that blue shirt that she was arrested in the first time with the numbers on the front.

And then we`ve also seen her at the Bank of America where she went cashing a check that she had stolen from her friend, Amy Huizenga.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Nancy in Connecticut.

Hi, Nancy.

NANCY FROM CONNECTICUT (via telephone): Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question?

NANCY FROM CONNECTICUT: Early on in the case, when she was going in and out of jail and she had her brother escort her to jail, she turned to her brother and slapped him a high-five. And it looked like she said we got mom and she repeated it. We finally got mom. I don`t know if you have someone that can read lips, but that`s what it appears to be what she`s saying. And that would show motive and that she was vindictive towards her mother.

GRACE: You know, that`s an interesting theory that has been coming out. I want to go to Natisha Lance.

All along the tension between tot mom and her mother has been palpable. But Cindy Anthony and George Anthony are there in court supporting her. Nobody else.

LANCE: They are in court supporting her, Nancy. But this tension goes all the way back to be before Caylee was born, actually when Caylee was born. You`ve heard Lee Anthony say before in his interviews with police that it was because Cindy was the first person to hold Caylee when Caylee was born and not Casey.

And we`ve also heard from that birthday party that we just showed, that new video that we received, that 2-year-old birthday party, there was a friend who was there by the name of Michelle Murphy. She said that there was some tension going on between Casey and Cindy at that time because they were going through a power struggle as to who was going to help Caylee open her birthday gifts.

GRACE: You know, that`s really something. Having a power struggle over who is going to open the birthday gifts.

To Janine Driver, body language expert, author of "You Say More Than You Think" at BodyLanguageInstitute.com.

Janine, weigh in on the body language between the lover, Tony Lazzaro and tot mom.

JANINE DRIVER, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, I`m glad we`re talking about body language here because without a doubt, we`re saying more than we think.

What we`re seeing with the former lover is some authenticity because we`re not seeing an increase in stress. He`s not touching his face. He`s not rubbing his arm. That`s what we see when we see stress. Instead, what I`m noticing is a relax man. He takes his time before he answers. He`s looking up a lot and then he answers. It`s not as if he`s over rehearsed, giving us the answers quickly.

What this means is his body language is indicative of someone telling the truth. Perhaps he does believe that she was affectionate. Perhaps he did see that Casey was loving. She was a loving mother.

But you and I, Nancy, could see a car accident on the same corner. I think the blue car hit the red car. You think the red car hit the blue car. The bottom line is this. The big picture, the truth is what we believe to be true. I believe that her ex-lover, Casey`s ex-lover believes in fact, she was a good mother.

GRACE: Well, he may believe that, but his testimony was damning, Janine Driver.

And I want to go to Peter Odom. Let`s see those photos again that just came in through Tony Lazzaro. The defense fought tooth and nail to keep the photos of her, tot mom and Lazzaro out of the jury`s purview.

Why, Peter Odom, was it so important to the defense to keep these photos out of the two of -- these two partying on several occasions after Caylee goes missing?

PETER ODOM, ATTORNEY: Well, because they don`t want the state to just try and smear her character. And that`s, obviously, what the state is doing. What mystifies me in this case, Nancy, is that the state is completely following the defence`s lead.

This is supposed to be a case about the murder of a child. All the state has done so far is try and prove Casey Anthony`s demeanor on certain dates, trying to disprove a defense that hasn`t been presented yet. I think the government lawyers need to get back on track and start proving their case here rather than trying to start just prove things about Casey Anthony`s demeanor.

GRACE: You know, really, because apparently you haven`t been watching the testimony. What they have been doing is actually taking a chronological approach and starting with the date Caylee goes missing, describing what -- it`s not just about tot mom`s demeanor but bout what happened. What she said about the home being broken into, gas cans being stolen, about her being protective of the trunk of that car, about the lies that she told, about Caylee`s whereabouts. That is what they are proving.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Anthony, would you like to answer my question now?

GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER: Reaches in and grabs the gas can. Says here -- I hate to say this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you certain?

GEORGE ANTHONY: On a scale of 1 to 10, I probably give myself probably a 9.9.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are not interrupting, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you see into the trunk?

LAZZARO: No, could not see into the trunk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was even a time when they were trying to ask you to close your eyes and to try and picture it. Do you recall that?

LAZZARO: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that still didn`t waiver your testimony.

LAZZARO: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You still told the truth?

LAZZARO: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked him to remain outside. The defense had requested to proffer his testimony. So don`t do it again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The date you told law enforcement about this argument you had with Casey over the trunk and gas can.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I don`t know when I had that information.

You can clarify this right now. This gas can --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question, sir, do you recall making that statement.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m being interrupted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sustained. Let him answer the question. Mr. Anthony may answer the question, sir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest in the trial of Casey Anthony tot mom. In the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee. Caylee`s remains found just 15 houses from the Anthony home, disposed of like trash and a makeshift pet cemetery in heavily wooded area.

We are live in the courtroom all day long. Straight out to Ellie Jostad.

Ellie, one of tot mom`s friends, another shot girl, a young woman selling shots of liquor at bar, and these are in the days after her little girl goes missing and/or is murdered says that tot mom pretended Caylee was in the car when she was talking to her on the telephone. Describe that testimony.

ELLIE JOSTAD, CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right. This is Erica Gonzalez. Like you said, another shot girl at Fusion. She says that, and I believe the date was July 15th. She was talking to Casey Anthony on the phone. And Casey Anthony seemed to be speaking to somebody who was in the car with her acting as though Caylee was in the car with her.

And she said that the very next day she got a text that a lot of Casey Anthony`s friends got and this was the first time any of them heard any problem with Caylee. They all got this text that said my daughter is missing. If you know anything, call the police or I need help. Something to that effect.

GRACE: So at some point, she`s actually pretending she`s talking to Caylee to cover up Caylee`s disappearance?

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. That`s what it sounds like.

GRACE: OK. Judge Alex Ferrer, host of "Judge Alex," if she`s in denial about what happened, that`s one thing. But to actively pretend you are with a child to make others believe the child is not missing, isn`t that -- is that consistent with a denial theory?

JUDGE ALEX FERRER, HOST, "JUDGE ALEX": I think it`s consistent with both the murder and the denial theory. The problem they have with the -- well, not the denial theory, with the drowning. The denial theory, the fact she`s got all these problems where she suppresses because of sexual abuse, she suppresses the things she`s had to deal with that are difficult like the death of a child. Yes, it is consistent. I wouldn`t go so far as to say it`s not consistent. But she`s got bigger problems with the drowning theory than that. Much bigger.

You can`t paint dad as such an evil guy that he goes and helps her to dispose of the body of her daughter. He`s the one who disposes of it and makes it look like it`s a kidnapping or something by putting tape over the mouth. He`s that helpful to his daughter, and yet when he gets arrested, he`s willing to sit back and watch her face the death chamber rather than coming forward and say, no, no, no, you don`t understand, I was trying to protect my daughter. It was an accident. He`s just going to watch her die. That`s completely inconsistent.

The defense has a lot of inconsistencies with their drowning theory that they`re never going to be able to explain.

GRACE: That leads me to another question.

To Richard Herman. How come in the defense opening statement, if that`s really what happened, Caylee drowns and the father who molested her disposes of the body, why didn`t they explain that to the jury? All they said was she says daddy help me and George Anthony just takes the body away and that`s the end of that. They move on to another topic. It were the truth, why not describe what happened?

RICHARD HERMAN, ATTORNEY: Yeah, that`s going to be a big problem for the defense, Nancy. They can`t overcome that big gap. Could cause them the conviction right then and there.

But, Nancy, the government stood up in their opening and gave motive. I don`t think you would have done that in this case. The motive being she wanted to live the good life. Every single government witness has said she`s been a great mother, a loving mother and no one has said that the baby has been hampering her lifestyle or hampering her in any way, shape or form. Big problem for the government.

GRACE: A good mother, a great mother except for the little murder and disposal of the body thing.

To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner of Burlington. Burlington South Philadelphia.

Dr. Manion, thanks for being with us.

BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON: My pleasure.

GRACE: Doctor, based on what you have now learned about the case, when do you believe the smell of human decomposition would have manifested in that trunk?

MANION: Well, that was in the summertime, that the car is hot. So I think in 24 to 36 hours you are going to start having that smell. The other thing I was thinking, if that body is starting to decompose it will purge and you`ll begin to get fluids out of the nose and mouth. Maybe she put tape over the nose and mouth to keep those fluids back in thinking that would somehow slow down the purging. So that`s a possibility for the tape.

GRACE: That`s a good question, Dr. Manion because the state, the prosecution says they can prove the duct tape was put on Caylee`s nose and mouth pre-mortem, while she`s still alive.

MANION: That`s very questionable.

GRACE: So how would they be able to tell that? How would they be able to tell that? Would there be skin cells on the tape? How would they be able to tell if it was while she was alive?

MANION: Well, the defense expert, Dr. Warner Spitz, a very renowned forensic pathologist is challenging that exact point. There was no DNA found on the tape. There was no evidence of insects found on the tape. And perhaps -- perhaps as that jaw fell off the skull, maybe the person handling the body put the jaw and the tape over the jaw to hold the jaw in place. So I`m not convinced that this tape was placed there before the child died. And in fact, Dr. G., her quote was, "this duct tape was clearly placed prior to decompetition, keeping the mandible and jaw in place.

I mean, how many times do you have a case where you have duct tape over somebody`s jaw. I mean, that`s a rare even in forensic pathologist. Anytime you say something clearly happens, oftentimes it can come back to bite you. So I`m not saying you can`t have a theory, but to say this is matter of fact.

GRACE: I think it has to do with the fact that the duct tape -- if it had been placed on there post-mortem, it would have affected the way the jaw still fit into the skull and also I know it was placed in her hair.

MANION: That`s right.

GRACE: Obviously, there was no intent to ever take it off. You would never put duct tape in a little girl`s hair unless you plan to put cut the hair off. You can`t get the duct tape out.

Out to the lines. Shannon in Oklahoma.

Hi, Shannon, what`s your question?

SHANNON FROM OKLAHOMA (via telephone): Hi. My questions or comments about the jailhouse videos when Casey said that George and Cindy have been the best parents/grandparents anyone could ever ask for. And now she does a 360 and does this whole sexual claim about George abusing her.

Why didn`t then she tell the police about the abuse that`s going on, instead of really waiting if it really was an accident?

GRACE: You know what? There is no explanation to explain why she sat in jail all this time as opposed to coming clean about an accident in the swimming pool.

We`ll come back with that question. We`re live at the Orlando courthouse. But take a listen to this. This is when tot mom calls home and insists she needs to speak to Tony Lazzaro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: Hey.

CASEY ANTHONY: Hey. Can you give me Tony`s number?

LEE ANTHONY: I -- I can do that. I don`t know what real good it`s going to do you at this point.

CASEY ANTHONY: Well, I`d like to talk to him anyway.

LEE ANTHONY: OK.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I called to talk to my mother and it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste.

By the way, I don`t want any of you coming up here when I have my first hearing for bond and everything else. Like, don`t even (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste your time coming up here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY ANTHONY: I appreciate everything you`re trying to do, but I`d like to call Tony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Casey ever tell you she loved you?

LAZZARO: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever tell Casey you loved her?

LAZZARO: Yes.

CASEY ANTHONY: Do me a favor, get my brother back, because I need Tony`s number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony talked about murdering him.

LAZZARO: No.

CASEY ANTHONY: No. No. I want Tony`s number. I`m not talking to anybody else.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: We are taking your calls.

To Ellie Jostad, chief editorial producer. What, speaking of the smell of decomposition in tot mom`s trunk, what about the text she sent to her friend, Amy Huizenga?

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. This is on June 27th. She sends her friend a text. I believe there was a previous one that said, smells like something died in my car, there`s a horrible smell in my car. June 22nd she sent a text that said, yes, there`s definitely a dead animal plastered on the frame of my car. So we know that the car smelled that day.

GRACE: I don`t see what`s to exclude her putting the body in one place then moving it to the car.

Out to the lines. Katie in Tennessee. Hi, dear, what`s your question?

KATIE FROM TENNESSEE (via telephone): We were kind of curious. We attended the Orlando jail, the courthouse to see hearings and stuff. Why is she not in shackles like every other murderer?

GRACE: I can tell you that when she comes to the courtroom, she cannot be in shackles.

ELEANOR ODOM, ATTORNEY: What about it, Eleanor Odom? You explain.

Right. Because the jury can`t see her because she is there cloaked in the presumption of innocence. So they can`t see her in her jailhouse clothes. And at this point, she`s really not a flight risk. Where is she going to go?

GRACE: You`re right. It could be reversible error for the jury to see her in orange or blue handcuffs, shackles, never in a death penalty case.

Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Lonnie Allen Jr., 26, Belleview, Nebraska, killed in Iraq on a second tour. Awarded bronze star, purple heart. A 12 sport athlete. Loved comic books, old coins, designing computer programs, mentoring children at his former elementary school. Dreamed of criminal justice degree. Leaves behind parents Lonnie, Sr., and Sally, brother, Nuru, window, Bridget. Lonnie Allen, Jr., American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.

And happy eighth birthday to little Georgia crime fighter, David. He finished second grade. He loves playing guitar, football. His dream to play for the Georgia Bulldogs. Happy birthday, David.

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. From here at the Orlando courthouse in the tot mom murder trial and the beginning of justice for Caylee. Until then, good night, friend.

END