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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Casey`s Mom Reduced to Tears on Stand; Wild Horses Terrorized?

Aired May 30, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Explosive testimony in the Casey Anthony murder trial. Casey`s mom, Cindy, takes the stand and completely loses it when she sees photos of her dead granddaughter, Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you recognize this to be?

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Caylee`s bed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cindy Anthony testified that she only got excuses from her daughter, Casey, the defendant, when she tried, day after day, to find out where little Caylee was.

Casey Anthony also wiped away tears, but was Casey upset about the memories of little Caylee? Or was Casey upset about the incriminating testimony her own mother was giving before the jury?

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see that?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you recognize it?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you recognize it to be?

CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee`s bed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does that photograph fairly and accurately depict Caylee`s bed?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. There are a few things that are normally on it not there and the sheet is not on her pillow. I mean the pillow case isn`t on the pillow, but yes that`s Caylee`s bed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a stuffed animal on the left side of the photograph. Is -- is that one of Caylee`s bears?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. That`s one of her bears.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight Cindy Anthony`s composure on the witness stand is completely shattered as she looks at a heart-breaking photo of her dead granddaughter Caylee`s bedroom. The painful memories are almost three years old, but on Saturday they were as fresh as can be for Caylee`s grandma, Cindy.

This woman has been to hell and back, all because of her daughter. And now she`s on another tour of hell, called by the prosecution to testify in her daughter`s murder trial.

Cindy clearly seems to be trying to walk a very fine line, to tell the truth under oath and stay loyal to her husband, George, who`s been accused of sexual molestation by the defense. But Cindy also seems to be trying not to help prosecutors convict her own daughter. That`s quite a tight rope, people.

At a certain point, after realizing that Casey has been telling her lie after lie after lie after lie for days, for weeks, for years, Cindy`s finally compelled to express her sense of betrayal to the jury.

In this next clip Cindy describes how she got so upset by Casey`s lies she sent Casey an emotional message via MySpace complaining about why Casey was hiding her granddaughter from her. Cindy says Casey had told her she was in Jacksonville, Florida, on July 3, 2008, but that was, yes, you guessed it, a lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: When they got back to me and told me the possibility she could be in town, then my mind was just all over the place, and I was just really angry, upset, felt betrayed that I didn`t know exactly, because I thought I knew what was going on. So I was just venting.

Plus I knew Caylee had told me that she had seen new photos of Casey on her MySpace. So I thought if I posted it and asked Casey to be my friend, that she would be the only one that read it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to Aphrodite Jones, star of "True Crime."

Aphrodite, you have been inside the courtroom. What on earth is this mother going through, between obviously being under oath to tell the truth but also trying not to help prosecutors convict her own flesh and blood?

APHRODITE JONES, HOST, "TRUE CRIME": You know, it is a tight rope, as you said, Jane. And you and I have legal eagles together. This is one of the most riveting testimony that is ever going to happen in this trial other than Caylee -- Casey Anthony herself.

But what she`s trying to do, first of all, she described the very last days she spent with Caylee and took Caylee on Father`s Day to see her great-grandfather at a nursing home at a facility in Mount Dora.

That day Cindy had a feeling, because she thought her grandfather would die soon, that this would be the last time. And she took a video camera of those events and described to the jury and described to the court how she and Casey and Caylee, the three of them, watched that video of Caylee with her great-granddad together that night, and that was the last time she saw her granddaughter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Affie...

JONES: And the tears were flowing, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... what I`m asking you is, what is her emotional, psychological quandary? I mean, this woman has a tight rope to walk. What must that be like? What is the tension like in the courtroom?

JONES: It is unbelievably tense. It`s unbelievably tense in the courtroom. This woman is -- first of all, the media is all around her. She`s hiding from the media. She`s -- her husband is grabbing his arm around her at one point. Another point they walk separate ways at lunch. I watched them do it.

You know, these two -- this -- she`s got her husband on the one hand who has an alleged mistress who is going to testify. He -- you know, they`ve got a problem marriage to begin with that was happening during that time. Now they`re trying to band together.

She`s got allegations against her husband of sexual abuse and physical abuse, and, you know, yet she`s got a daughter who she doesn`t want to see sentenced to death. I mean, what can be more compelling and horrific for a mother to now have lost her granddaughter and now looking at losing her daughter, as well, to death, to the death penalty? And she`s a prosecution witness?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Honestly, I`m amazed that she hasn`t collapsed and just fallen to the ground, given the pressure cooker that she is under.

Now let`s talk a little bit about the litany of lies, because that`s what we heard Cindy say. A litany of lies that she had heard from her daughter.

Lots of people, including myself, have always thought there is no Zanny the nanny. Never thought it for a second. Cindy`s own brother wrote to Cindy a long time ago saying, "Wake up. Your daughter is playing you for a fool with this ghost sitter scam." But Cindy always insisted Zenaida the nanny was a real person. Even under oath in a lawsuit filed by a real Zenaida who says this case has destroyed her life.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: She doesn`t have perfect teeth. She`s not a 10. Sorry, ma`am. You`re cute, but you`re not a 10.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This Zanny individual that we discussed , did you ever find her?

CINDY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you looking for her?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the 15th of July you looked for this Zanny person?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Until when?

CINDY ANTHONY: Until about six weeks ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what suddenly happened six weeks ago that finally convinced Cindy what the whole world has been telling her for almost three years? There is no Zanny the nanny.

Got to go to Lisa Bloom here. She`s the author of a fabulous new book that you got to read called "Think: Straight Talk for Women to Stay Smart in a Dumbed Down World." Wow, what a perfect title for what we`re talking about, this clueless mother. What do you think happened six weeks ago that finally snapped her out of denial?

LISA BLOOM, AUTHOR, "THINK": Jane, you put your finger right on it, because that`s when we believe Cindy and George Anthony learned that Casey`s defense was not going to be the lies that she`s been telling for the last few years, that Zanny the nanny ran off with the baby. She was going to jettison all of that at a trial, instead say it was an accidental drowning. It was a drowning that her father George knew about and that Casey was covering up for him and that`s why she lied to her mother.

In other words she was going to put the blame on her own father and take, you know, take the blame for saying that she had lied to her parents about that. That must have been devastating for George and Cindy Anthony, who after all, are victims here, too, because they lost their granddaughter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m just wondering how they were finally told about this. I can`t imagine Jeff Brown, criminal defense attorney, that Jose Baez just called her up and said, "Hey, guess what? We`ve got a new game plan here. We`re now going to say that little Caylee died accidentally in the swimming pool of your home and that the reason Casey didn`t say anything is because your husband, George, and your son, Lee, molested her." How did they find -- six weeks ago they suddenly found out? I would love to have been a fly on the wall of that conversation.

JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. You know, this is one thing that we can figure out by being lawyers in this case.

In Florida, we have open discovery, which means everything is put on the table ahead of time. So if Baez is calling a witness to allege sexual abuse or he wants a document in regarding a report, he has to disclose that. There will be depositions, and we`ll be able to ask his lawyers the basis of that opinion and what was going on.

So the fact that this was such a -- such a bombshell in the opening statement means Baez has never listed a witness that`s going to allege that. He`s never done that in depositions. And he`s never produced a single document.

So I think what happened here was that there was some talk and some discussion amongst the lawyers, and it kind of slipped out, but nothing was ever confirmed until that opening statement. And what it tells us is Baez has got no proof of this other than putting his client on the stand. And we realize today, in fact this whole trial, Jane -- you were talking about it -- what a horrible witness to try to believe something through.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. She`s -- a lot of people say she`s got -- Casey`s got to take the stand...

BROWN: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... because there is nobody backing up her story.

Nancy Grace has all the dramatic testimony from the trial`s first week. It`s coming up in just a little while at 8 p.m. tonight.

Now, Cindy returns to the stand tomorrow morning. You can watch all of her testimony live right here on HLN, starting at 9 a.m. Eastern. And of course, we`re covering it all this week here on ISSUES at 7 p.m. Eastern.

Sit tight. Later in the show, Misty Croslin breaks down and speaks about missing Haleigh Cummings from behind bars. Is Misty ready to crack?

But more emotional bombshells. More of Cindy`s tearful testimony just moments away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mrs. Anthony, the play house, what kind of a floor is on that?

CINDY ANTHONY: Those are stones. It`s patio stones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Can I ask for a favor? Can you turn this...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only the judge can give favors.

CINDY ANTHONY: Sir, can I have her take the screen down? I can`t...

BELVIN PERRY, JUDGE: Yes.

CINDY ANTHONY: ... look at my granddaughter without getting upset...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry.

CINDY ANTHONY: ... and I`m trying very hard not to cry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a devastated grandmother forced to relive her very worst nightmare. Cindy Anthony takes the stand for the prosecution at the murder trial of her daughter.

I got to go to Lisa Bloom and ask you about the whole molestation issue. Now it did not appear to me anyway, and I watched all day the prosecution ask Cindy about whether George molested her daughter, Casey, the defendant. So that`s a tricky thing, because it could open a Pandora`s box. How should they handle that, the prosecution?

BLOOM: Well, it is a tricky issue, but I think it`s completely irrelevant to the trial. The question is whether Casey murdered her daughter, not whether she was molested by her father. I don`t even see the connection. But obviously, the judge does. The judge is allowing it in. I think the defense is trying to bring it in to save Casey`s life. They`re just trying to save her from the death penalty at this point.

So you`ve got to ask Cindy, the prosecution has got to ask her the question. She`s going to answer. She`s going to deny it. Of course, we all know a father can molest his daughter without the mom knowing, and typically the mom doesn`t know until the daughter discloses it. You`ve got to get in there. You`ve got to ask the questions and you`ve got to get out, because it`s an issue before the jury. They`re going to be thinking about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here is another big issue. And here`s my big issue. Lies, lies, lies and more lies.

During the month little Caylee was missing Casey lied to her mother, saying she was in Tampa with Caylee when Casey was really in Orlando. Then on June 24, Casey is caught in that lie. She thinks her dad, George, is at work, so Casey goes to the Anthony home, but George is there. Whoops. So Cindy finds out that Casey was lying about her whereabouts. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey said that Zanny was ahead of her and witnessed Zanny get into a car accident, a pretty serious car accident. And so therefore, she had been all day at the hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ask for an opportunity at that point to speak with Caylee?

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, I think, was still in the emergency room. And Casey, I believe, was calling me from the emergency room area. And they didn`t have the girls, the toddlers around the emergency area. So one of the other girls, either Julia or Raquel (ph), had the girls somewhere else. so she wasn`t in proximity for me to talk to Caylee on the phone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jeff Brown, these are all elaborate lies. It`s completely concocted. Now before you say, "I`d like to sell Cindy a bridge in Arizona," we need to take into account that Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter, said that Casey is the most brilliant, believable liar that he has ever heard in his life. And he thinks she`s going to take the stand and just lie her way through this trial.

BROWN: Well, yes, the one thing the government is really establishing here is that this woman can tell a lie, and she gets into amazing details in her lies. And the lies have been going on for quite some time. They don`t just pop up on June 16.

So yes, there`s a real problem with her credibility. I think nobody can believe a word she says.

The problem Baez has is he`s built a whole defense around her word. I mean, there`s no evidence to any of these things. His whole defense is based on, you know, the sexual abuse. He`s basing it on the drowning, and he`s basing it on this, you know, weird -- this weird family.

Well, Cindy has taken two of these three completely off the table. There`s no ladder that was left down for the pool. And he needs that for the drowning. And there `s no cover up of the pregnancy with this -- with this family.

So, you know, this girl is going to get on the stand, and she`s going to say whatever this story is with no proof, and that`s just going to be -- I think a jury is going to be actually turning away not looking at her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You talked about the accidental drowning. Casey`s new defense is that little Caylee died accidentally in the Anthony family above-ground swimming pool on June 16, the day after Father`s Day. Well, Cindy testified the little girl swam in the pool on Father`s Day.

Listen closely to what Cindy says about the pool ladder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey came out with a towel, and she received Caylee as she was coming down the ladder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You got out at that time, I imagine?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, ma`am, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what did you do with the removable portion of the ladder?

CINDY ANTHONY: I took it off, as usual, and placed it on the side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Aphrodite Jones, Cindy took the ladder off, as usual, and placed it on the side, which means this little toddler had no way of climbing up into the pool to drown. Cindy is refuting her daughter`s crucial defense, and Cindy sounds believable, Affie.

JONES: Well, you know what? Cindy does sound believable.

One thing that`s going on inside the courtroom is, you know, in the past pretrial hearings, Cindy and Casey showed love for each other. There was affection. There were whispers of "I love you." Suddenly now, they do not look at each other. There are cold, hard stares. There is no -- no -- communication between the two of them. They are on opposite sides of the fence.

And, clearly, it is possible, you know, that, even though she is a nurse, that Cindy Anthony forgot to remove the ladder. I mean, we have to give the possibility, you know, sometimes people forget things. It could have happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. I mean, it could have happened. Jeff, it could have happened.

BROWN: Yes, but she never says that. And so just asking that question of her, if he does on cross, and say, "Isn`t it possible you`re wrong," and she says, "No," it`s a dead issue. There`s no other witness for that. So he`s really not going to be able to argue that that`s wrong or that didn`t happen. The only evidence in this trial is that ladder was down, and the defense has no explanation for this. They`re done.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, what does Jose Baez have to do on cross with Cindy?

BLOOM: You know, I think he has to go after this ladder issue as we were just talking about. Is it possible that you forget? Are you certain that every single time that you took that ladder off, because that is the key issue here.

But boy, he`s got a tough row to hoe, because why did it take Casey Anthony two years to come forward with this story that her daughter died accidentally? Because that`s an exculpatory story. If that`s true, she`s not guilty. So why all the other lies? And why does the baby have duct tape over her mouth?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And it`s not like she`s been saying for years she was molested either.

Cindy returns to the stand tomorrow morning. You can watch her testimony live on HLN starting 9 a.m. Eastern. And we`re going to have the very latest tonight here on ISSUES.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see any other evidence of her working at Universal Studios that led you to believe that it was true?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I mean, there was her lanyard that she would wear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry? Did you say lanyard?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, her lanyard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

CINDY ANTHONY: And I had seen text messages from her boss and e-mails from her work, her employer to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The intricacy of Casey`s fabrications and the length to which she went to back them up are truly mind-boggling, but Aphrodite Jones, a pathological liar is not necessarily a murderess. What does the prosecution have to do to take it to the next level, to convince the jury that, not only is she a liar, but she`s a malicious murder who wanted her child out of the way so she could go party and because she was jealous of her mother Cindy`s affections toward the granddaughter?

JONES: The prosecution has a job to do, because at this point there`s a doubt, I believe, in the jury`s mind as to whether or not Casey -- it was an accident -- it was deliberate, whether she -- George helped her perhaps, you know, clean up the accident after and hide the baby. All of these things are in the jurors` minds, from my perspective, I was watching them live.

And I think the prosecution is going to have to present not just pictures of Casey partying and having a good time because guess what? The defense has already told us that Casey lived in a dream world. She was a - - she lived in a fictional world. And when the police asked her, "Take us to your job at Universal Studios," she literally walked the police through the gates of Universal Studios with a pass that didn`t work to the office that she -- supposedly was her office, and then finally was backed into a corner, literally, and there was no job.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, OK.

JONES: This girl had lived in that much of a fantasy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, Brown...

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Clearly, she`s a pathological liar, but is that the same as being a murderess?

BROWN: No, it`s...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have they proved motive? I know they don`t have to, but it would help.

BROWN: Yes, it would help. And normally, if you defended this case the right way, you would be focusing on just that, saying they can never prove when, where, and how. That`s how I would have defended it. When, where, how. Every witness, "When, where, how? When, where, how? If you can`t answer those questions, you can`t convict my client."

The problem is Baez has sold this jury a story. And when we try cases today we realize that jurors now pick between stories. They don`t just use reasonable doubt. They hear it. They go right past it. They pick a story. The government has a story. Baez has told a story. The moment they reject that story, Baez`s story, that jury goes right back to the government`s story. That`s how they`re trying cases now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

BROWN: That`s how jurors are deciding it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lisa Bloom, look. People who have followed this case, they`re not buying any of this. But I talked to quite a few people who really didn`t have any idea about this case. They`re kind of like jurors. And they`re buying it. A lot more than we folk.

BLOOM: Well, Jane, this is all going to come down to common sense. And what`s critical in proving murder and not just an accidental death is what happened before Caylee died. And that`s the computer searches in the house: chloroform, breaking a neck. If the prosecution can pin that on Casey -- and I think they can because she`s the one using that computer -- that shows premeditation. This wasn`t an accident.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, we have more on the Casey Anthony case in just a moment on the other side of the break.

And remember, Cindy returns to the stand tomorrow morning. You can watch her testimony live right here on HLN starting at 9 a.m. Eastern.

Thank you, fantastic panel. More on this riveting trial. Stay in your seats, people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony mistrial madness.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: We would at this time renew our motion for a mistrial based on the evidence that the state has presented.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jose Baez blasts the prosecution, calling their questioning attempted character assassination and asking for a mistrial. What? I`ll tell you what the judge had to say about that.

Plus, the fiancee of Casey`s brother Lee melts down on the stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALLORY PARKER, LEE ANTHONY`S FIANCEE: Casey and Caylee had a really, you know, very special bond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, another famous case involving a little girl who just vanished -- Haleigh Cummings; The last person to see her alive now speaking out and breaking down behind bars. Misty Croslin doing time for drug trafficking. Is she finally ready to crack?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH CUMMINGS` STEPMOTHER: I didn`t notice about Haleigh back then until I saw the back door opened and she`s gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ll hear what Misty is saying now and you`ll be shocked by her new look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAEZ: Did Caylee ever go without food, as far as you know?

PARKER: No.

BAEZ: Did she ever appear neglected to you?

PARKER: No.

BAEZ: Did you ever see Casey strike or torture or punish Caylee in any harmful way?

PARKER: No, sir.

BAEZ: And the best way that you can describe their relationship would be "amazing"?

PARKER: Amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony on trial for murder, yet one of the prosecution`s very first witnesses today in a bombshell tells the jury the relationship between Casey and her daughter Caylee was amazing. She`s gushing. On the other hand, they did present testimony about Casey being proud of her ability to lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had told the friends that she couldn`t come pick them up to hang out with them because she was having car trouble or that she got a flat tire or something of that nature. And as she hung up, she said she kind of threw the phone down on the dashboard and just said, "Oh, my God, I`m such a good liar."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Such a good --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Liar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to start out by asking Sunny Hostin why it is that the judge told everybody you cannot have any outburst, you cannot -- so George when he`s being accused of molestation has to sit there like this. But Casey, as you just saw there, can shake her head every time anybody says anything that is unfavorable and do a whole little acting job.

SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, "IN SESSION": Well, that ruling about the outburst or that instruction rather came in when it was determined that George and Cindy Anthony would be allowed to sit in the courtroom during all the testimony. I mean let`s face it, these are star witnesses yet they are going to be allowed to hear opening statements, they are going to be allowed to hear every single witness`s testimony. And so I think that is really what Judge Perry wanted to contain, wanted to make sure that they comported themselves in a way in the courtroom so as not to sway this jury.

I think the defendant certainly has made a lot of gestures. I don`t know if those gestures are going to help her, quite frankly. The "no" sort of thing and even the crying may not help her. A lot of statistics and reports that have been done about defendants crying don`t bode well for defendants. Usually jurors think that they are either lying or that they are being defiant or denying. So I think you can`t read too much into what Casey`s doing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you bring me to my big issue.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will ultimately Casey have to not just shake her head but take the stand and testify? We asked our ISSUES Facebook audience whether Casey has to take the stand to get an acquittal, 84 percent -- 84 percent said yes. Only 16 percent said no.

So I`m going to ask, Leonard Padilla, do you think if Casey does tell -- take the stand, she would be an effective witness or would she be destroyed by the prosecution on cross-examination?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: The prosecution will not destroy her. She`ll be as effective witness as any witness that you`ve ever seen on trial for her life. And one of the things that people keep forgetting --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why?

PADILLA: Well, because she can lie like you`ve never seen anybody lie. We saw her lie about things that were just not necessary to be lied about while we were in that residence. She lied about things that were just absolutely no reason for it -- none. And she does it in a convincing manner.

She is insane to the point where she can say anything she wants and it`s believable if you want to believe it. She lies in a manner that is believable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mike Brooks, are you concerned about that, that she could actually take the stand and just lie her way through this case?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely. I mean she has before. And it`s going to come down to credibility if she does take the stand, who do the jurors believe more? Do they believe the other witnesses and then Casey?

Because, you know, it was interesting today. I thought Jose Baez took kind of a different turn today. He started talking about Casey`s world. And he would phrase (ph) it, "the world that Casey Anthony lived in" and basically saying that she lives in a fantasy world.

But who is to believe her? Is she telling the truth now about molestation, about anything at all? We`ll never know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She is a very effective liar.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Are you kidding me?

(CROSSTALK)

MURPHY: Are you kidding me?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. No. Wendy, weigh in.

MURPHY: Do you think the prosecution is in Grade 2? They`re going to stand up and just let her lie and not challenge her with every single bit of evidence? She`s not going to be able to explain away a lot of stuff. Look, I`d love to get her on the stand. She would be lunch meat in five minutes and I don`t even know all the case evidence yet.

But I`ll tell you this, I have to ask her and all these crazy people who think she was such a wonderful mother, I`d ask them one question. Do you think it`s a wonderful motherly thing to do that on May 30th while she was in bed with her boyfriend and her daughter she woke up in the middle of the night and delivered her child some place? Where did she bring her?

She told people she brought her -- because she woke up the next morning in Ricardo`s bed and Caylee was gone and Ricardo said, "Where is your daughter?" And she said, "I brought her to my mother. My mother was worried about her." And Cindy said, "Oh, no, you didn`t."

So when Casey is asked the question, to whom did you deliver your child in the middle of the night? What do you think the little liar is going to say? You know where she brought her -- she brought her to the same apartment where she delivered her for some reason --

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: Jeff Ashton will eat her alive.

MURPHY: She won`t survive one day. She won`t survive one minute.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve made your point. Listen, that`s why you`re a famous former prosecutor and we have you on the show, Wendy. But Mike, one at a time; what is your response to that?

BROOKS: I really think that if she does take the stand -- number one, she`s going to have to take the stand to prove these allegations that Jose Baez, these fantasies that he brought up in the opening statements. And if she does take the stand, Jeff Ashton will eat her alive.

Look at how -- look at this presentation in the pre-trial hearing on December 11th, 2009, when he talked about those three pieces of tape. That was the first clue that we got of what the prosecution was going to say was the cause of death. Those three pieces of tape will eat her alive, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. I guess what I fear, Sunny Hostin, is that -- let`s assume for a second that George is not a child molester and that she made it up. I fear that she`s going to take the stand and you heard what Jose Baez said in opening statements, very graphic about a body part in 8-year-old Casey`s mouth. I have the feeling she could take the stand and just get super graphic -- super graphic about what her father allegedly did to her. And that makes me sick to my stomach, actually.

HOSTIN: Well, there`s no question that she has to take the stand. There`s no question. When I was a prosecutor, my boss said -- and I was known for giving these big hard-charging opening statements and my boss used to always tell me, "Sunny don`t write checks you can`t cash. You better make sure that that evidence is there to back you up."

And I say the same thing to Jose Baez. He went in there and he dropped a lot of bombshells. He`s got to shore it up. He`s got to prove it up so that he doesn`t lose the credibility with this jury when he asks them not to find her guilty.

The only way he does that, Jane, is by putting her on the witness stand. I think she may do ok because who else was there when George Anthony allegedly -- allegedly sexually abused her? Who else was there --

MURPHY: She will never take the stand. This is preposterous.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: -- when George Anthony allegedly had her drowned baby in her hands? No one can cross-examine her on it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Wendy.

MURPHY: She will never take the stand because among other things, she had sex with half the guys on the witness list. There are good witnesses out there who say she was prostituting herself. Do you think that`s a good mother? Do you think she`s going to come across as a good mother explaining herself?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t have any evidence of that.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: That`s not going to come in Wendy.

MURPHY: Yes, there was a witness -- look --

HOSTIN: That`s not going to come in.

MURPHY: There was -- look --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s not going to come in.

MURPHY: Guess what, that`s what witnesses have said about her. She was exceedingly promiscuous. She was a drug user. She was --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold it. Time out.

Ok. Time for the big gavel. Ok, yes, that`s right -- drop the mikes.

I really didn`t understand why the prosecution didn`t go more in depth into her sexual relationship. She`s testifying that while she`s dating one guy and he`s out of town, she`s going to sleep at the home of her ex- boyfriend but they didn`t press too hard on that. And the child was sleeping in the bed.

All right. Look, I want to say one thing. The prosecution did score something, the guy in charge of the tow yard where Casey`s car was delivered on June 30th, 2008 testified this morning. And he said that on the fourth or the fifth day he gave it a cursory inspection. Let`s listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON BIRCH, TOW TRUCK DRIVER: As I was looking around the vehicle there was nothing really noticeable at all until I put my hand up against the glass to shield the sun and looked through the windows and at that point I did notice a fairly strong odor emanating from the vehicle. The instant flash in my mind was, oh, I know what that smells like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Leonard Padilla, ten seconds. He said that it smelled like decomposition in the back of the car. Slam dunk for the prosecution there.

(CROSSTALK)

PADILLA: And once you smell decomposition, you will never forget it. And any time it`s discussed, you`ll remember it. And here, let me tell you something else. That girl can tell a lie better than George can tell the truth and be more believable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. That may be the quote of the week. Thank you, fantastic panel.

Up next, Haleigh and Misty -- yes, remember them?

Nancy Grace with the very latest on the Casey Anthony trial from Orlando at the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Hello?

911 OPERATOR: Ok sir, let me talk to your wife. Let me get some information from her.

CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE).

911 OPERATOR: Can I talk to her?

CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)

911 OPERATOR: Ok.

CUMMINGS: How the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) do you let my daughter get stolen (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A groundbreaking new jailhouse interview with Misty Croslin. Misty is the last person to have sees little Haleigh Cummings before the 5-year-old girl mysteriously disappeared from her bed two years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSLIN: -- and she`s gone and that`s all I know, is when I woke up - - when I went to sleep she was there and then when I woke up she was gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty was babysitting Ron`s two kids while he says he was at work. Prosecutors still think Misty is the key to solving this heartbreaking case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSLIN: I`m not the key. I think if they move on to somebody else that there would be more answers. They are stuck on me and I don`t have the answers to give to them; that`s why they have not got nowhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Boy has she changed. She`s sitting in jail serving a 25-year sentence for drug trafficking but she says they offered to reduce her charges if she told them what really happened to little Haleigh. Police even dragged her out to a river to get her to crack but no go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSLIN: They showed me bones -- animal bones telling me it was Haleigh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what you were doing on the dock?

CROSLIN: Yes. They showed me animal bones telling me this was her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at this new version of Misty. She`s come a long way from the super skinny 17-year-old on drugs.

Joining us tonight in an ISSUES exclusive: the attorney for Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father; Terry Shoemaker, thank you so much for joining us tonight, sir. What is your reaction to Misty coming out and maintaining she still has absolutely no idea what happened to little Haleigh?

TERRY SHOEMAKER, ATTORNEY FOR RONALD CUMMINGS: Well, it`s a little shocking and everything that she was saying during the interview, it seems a lot of stories have changed once again. You know, I`ve talked to law enforcement recently and every time I talked to them they say the exact same thing. That if she would come forward and let them know what`s going on or what took place on that night, that they would be able to crack the case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, people say jail is a time to reflect. And guess what? It sounds like Misty has put a whole lot of time into thinking about her relationship with her ex, Ron.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSLIN: He`s the one that got me into doing all of that stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drugs?

CROSLIN: Right. Before I got with him, I didn`t do that. I didn`t do none of that stuff. I feel like he used me the whole time we were together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Terry, Misty says she wasn`t into drugs but claims your client, Ron, hooked her on them. Your response to that?

SHOEMAKER: Well, I said in the sentencing hearing where -- excuse me -- where Misty was sentenced to the 25 years and during the testimony that she gave, she admitted to using drugs prior to ever meeting Ronald. She admitted to, you know, having some sort of problem with drugs from a very young age. So I find that hard to believe that again, now she is coming out and blaming Ronald for everything that has gone wrong in her life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty`s story to the police has essentially stayed the same but boy has her appearance over these two years radically changed.

Take a look. She was so skinny back when Haleigh first went missing. Sunken eyes and -- there`s her on the left. She looks like 12. Now her weight is -- well, obviously she`s put on some weight but I think overall she looks a little more wholesome than she did before, certainly when she was walking around dragging on a cigarette, Levi Page.

LEVI PAGE, HOST, "THE LEVI PAGE SHOW": You know, I really don`t give a crap what she looks like. A liar is a liar and she continues to lie. And I hate to agree with anything from someone who has represented Ronald Cummings but I agree with him.

I think that Misty knows what happened. She failed a polygraph. She failed a layer voice analysis. She`s extremely deceptive. She or Ronald refused to cooperate in this investigation.

And I think that Misty knows exactly what happened. She didn`t accept immunity because guess what -- she`s probably not covering for anyone. I had previously thought that this girl was covering for someone, but you know what, now I think that she`s the killer.

If she was not the killer, why didn`t she just come out and say, this is who did it? Got it -- she didn`t say that because she did it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me ask you, Terry --

SHOEMAKER: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty Croslin says your client Ron owed money to people who supported his drug habit and that those people may have taken the child for ransom. Your reaction, briefly?

SHOEMAKER: I can say that I`ve sat in many interviews with Ronald and law enforcement and that topic came up and that was looked at by law enforcement. And every time they asked about it and they went and checked anything that Ronald had to say, it came back as not being true.

So that has been looked in by law enforcement and they`ve followed every lead that they have received thus far and all of it leads not to Ronald but to somebody else.

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: Then why was Ronald not cooperating in the investigation per Gary Bowling? Major Gary Bowling said that Ronald refused to answer questions in the summer of --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, ok. I hear you. Now five seconds. Terry is he cooperative or not?

SHOEMAKER: He`s very cooperative.

PAGE: No.

SHOEMAKER: I can`t tell you how many times --

PAGE: That`s wrong.

SHOEMAKER: -- I`ve sat in a room with Ronald and law enforcement.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guess what, we`re going to stay on top of this. Terry, come back soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at those wild horses, terrified, tortured by government helicopters. The abuse of these majestic creatures continues in Nevada, despite the outcry from taxpayers.

The people have spoken. They say, "Hey, U.S. government, stop this torture." So why are these wild horses and burros (ph) still being forced to live in tiny pens? Take a look at it. Critics charge the U.S. government is siding with the cattle industry. It`s, some say, a whole debate over who`s going to have the grazing lands.

But the most outrageous part of this is that Nevada lawmakers recently proposed a bill to deny the horses the right to drink water. If passed, that bill would be a death sentence.

Horses, like you and me, they need water to live. What kind of tortured logic, what kind of lack of empathy would cause anyone to say, let`s deprive these animals of water? The bill has caused an outpouring of outrage and support for the horses.

With me tonight, Lee Hall, legal director for Friends of Animals; Lee, what are you doing to try to help these poor horses that have no voice and are being terrified by these government helicopters?

LEE HALL, LEGAL DIRECTOR, FRIENDS OF ANIMALS: Well, Jane, in general, this is part -- what you`re seeing in Nevada is part of an assault that`s been going on since 1973. We`re talking about thousands, tens of thousands of horses being rounded up a year.

And we have had enough of it, obviously. We are going to take legal action, this year, dealing with particularly roundups of the type that you`re showing on the video. And we are going to demand that the government give back the land that they have taken away over the years from the mustangs of the west. They have taken away ten million acres from the mustangs of the west.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We contacted the Nevada Bureau of Land Management, or the Bureau of Land Management in Nevada. They told us part of their job is to control overpopulation. And that currently, wild horses number over 38,000. Oh. Well, who says we`re only supposed to have 38,000 wild horses. You just heard how many acres they used to have. There used to be millions of them.

And what about my good friend, Madeleine Pickens, one of the richest women in America, the wife of oil mogul T. Boone Pickens -- she bought 20,000 acres of land to create an eco sanction for these horses, but when she told the U.S. government her plans, they said, oh, we`re not that interested in letting you have the horses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADELEINE PICKENS, WILD HORSES ACTIVIST: I said to them, let`s create this as an eco-sanctuary, and they turned around and said, guess what, we`re going to gather the horses from your land.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lee Hall, we`ve got a deficit crisis. We`re trying to save money. The government, nevertheless, will not give these horses to somebody who says, hey, I`ll take care of them. You don`t have to have the taxpayers` paying for their roundup and holding them in pens. What`s wrong with Uncle Sam?

HALL: Moreover, Jane, the 1971 act that protects these animals, federal law that protects these animals directs and authorizes the Secretary of Interior, that`s Ken Salazar, to create and maintain sanctuaries on range lands, as long as they maintain a thriving, natural ecological balance on the lands that is what they are to do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So they`re not supposed to be rounding them up, they`re supposed to be taking care of the horses.

HALL: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re staying on top of this. We`re not going to forget these --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These baby cows, less than a day old, are being taken away from their moms and brought to these facilities where they`re either grown out and returned to the dairy industry or just left to die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Innocent calves brutalized with hammers and picks, left to die. Horrendous acts of violence caught on tape by Mercy for Animals. And now warrants have been issued for several men who once worked at the ranch in Hart, Texas. In the past, the owner has said he didn`t know this was happening and then fired the men. He`s also facing a misdemeanor now.

Again, these individuals who actually did the hitting have been fired. Kudos to Mercy for Animals for exposing these deplorable practices which are illegal and I applaud the district attorney for prosecuting this case. That, in itself, is a huge victory.

Nancy Grace, up next.

END