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More Casey Videos Played in Court; Defense Accuses Police of Shoddy Work

Aired June 3, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, explosive new jailhouse interviews in the Casey Anthony murder trial. The jury sees Casey erupt at her parents.

CASEY ANTHONY, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: Can someone let me -- come on.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody is letting me speak. You want me to talk, then give me three seconds.

CINDY ANTHONY: Go, sweetheart.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you won`t believe Casey`s dismissive reaction when Cindy tells her a theory that Caylee may have drowned.

CINDY ANTHONY: Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning and that she drowned in the pool. That`s the newest story out there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Also, did cops mishandle evidence? A shocking courtroom grilling that will knock your socks off.

Plus, what are Casey`s parents demanding from the guy who once bailed Casey out, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla? I`ll talk to Leonard tonight about this breaking news development. And I`m taking your calls.

ISSUES starts now.



CASEY ANTHONY: I know we`re going to see Caylee. I know she`s coming home. I can feel it.

CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee`s been gone for 31 days.


CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.

CINDY ANTHONY: Dad`s blowing up at the media.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, I heard.

Dad`s just not the quiet, reserved person. We all know this.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: You should know better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever sexually molested your daughter, Casey Anthony?

G. ANTHONY: No, sir.

CASEY ANTHONY: You`re the best father and by far the best grandfather that I`ve ever met. When I say that, I mean that with all my heart.

CINDY ANTHONY: Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning, that she drowned in the pool. That`s the newest story out there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, stunning developments in the Casey Anthony murder trial. Jurors see and hear the real Casey in riveting jailhouse videos showing her emotional visits with her parents.

In hours of extraordinary jailhouse tapes, Casey goes from giggles to rage, at times, fists shaking. An uncensored Casey Anthony lets her parents have it when they dare to ask if she knows more than she`s saying about where their missing granddaughter, Caylee, is.

And we watch Casey praise her father, George, again and again and again. Well, wait a minute. Isn`t George the very same father she later accused of sexually abusing her? Listen.


CASEY ANTHONY: Dad, it`s not your fault. It isn`t. And it hasn`t been because of you or Mom or Lee or anyone in our family has done that`s made things the way that they are.

G. ANTHONY: Maybe we didn`t let you be the best mom. You are a great mom.

CASEY ANTHONY: Dad, it`s nobody`s fault. It`s nobody`s fault. It`s just -- I know how much I love you and how much I miss you, and I can`t wait to see you, Dad. You are the best father and by far the best grandfather that I`ve ever -- that I`ve ever met. And I say that and I mean that with all of my heart. Don`t for a second think otherwise, because I won`t let you, because it`s not the case.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Contrast that praise with Casey Anthony`s attorney, Jose Baez, in opening statements, who accuses George of finding little Caylee dead in the swimming pool and then covering it up and also accuses George of molesting Casey Anthony.


JOSE BAEZ, CASEY`S ATTORNEY: This child at 8 years old learned to lie immediately. She could be 13 years old, have her father`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in her mouth and then go to school and play with the other kids as if nothing ever happened. Nothing`s wrong. That will help you understand why no one knew that her child was dead.

Caylee Anthony died on June 16, 2008, when she drowned in her family`s swimming pool. As soon as Casey came around this corner and went back, she saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms. She immediately grabbed Caylee and began to cry and cry and cry. And shortly thereafter, George began to yell at her, "Look what you`ve done. Your mother will never forgive you, and you will go to jail for child neglect for the rest of your frickin` life."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does Jose Baez expect the jury to believe that story with Casey caught on tape scoffing at the very idea of an accidental drowning? We will play that nugget for you in a second. We`re also going to give you a sneak peak at the defense backup strategy, namely accusing cops of sloppy police work.

I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to "In Session" correspondent Jean Casarez.

Jean, first of all, how are jurors reacting to these amazing videotapes, and what`s the buzz when they take a break? Does everybody go, "Oh, look at the contradictions, the contradictions we just pointed out"?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": You know, it`s an amazing things, because there`s so much in these tapes. I watch the jurors. They`ve got their monitors right there in the jury box. They were so intent on watching these tapes. They believe they`re very important pieces of evidence. They`ve got their notebooks in their laps. I really don`t see that many notes, though. Here and there they write notes.

But the intensity shows they believe it`s critical in judging whether Casey Anthony is lying or is truthful in regard to so many things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you`re saying to me that they were essentially stone-faced, just like Casey Anthony is stone-faced in court, watching herself lie, lie, lie. Basically, you`ve got a lot of poker players in this courtroom.

CASAREZ: Yes, that`s a good point. You know, as I sit in that courtroom and I watch Casey Anthony, I`ve got monitors, too. It`s a big courtroom. She looks very tiny and very small. But I see in her eyes a look as those videos play that I`ve never seen before. It`s a look of -- I don`t know. It`s a bad look, Jane. It`s just a very bad look.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She might be doing the math in her head, because I`ve got to tell you: I have to think this is another powerhouse day for the prosecution.

The defense, of course, hinges on the jury believing that the child was not murdered but died accidentally in the Anthony above-ground swimming pool, an accident that George and Casey covered up and hid from the world.

But here`s an exchange from the summer of 2008. Listen carefully.


CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not doing well, Casey. None of us. Lee`s been sick. Dad`s blowing up at the media.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, I heard.

CINDY ANTHONY: Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning, that she drowned in the pool. That`s the newest story out there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Surprise, surprise. Criminal profiler, Pat Brown, Casey Anthony dismisses the idea of little Caylee drowning.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, of course she does. First of all, that would make her guilty of something, and Casey is never going to be guilty of anything.

Well, what`s really interesting about these jailhouse tapes that I think everybody must remember, is that Cindy Anthony, George Anthony, Lee Anthony, and Casey Anthony know that every one of these meetings is taped. This is a show that`s been put on, because they know it`s being videotaped. And even in that show, Casey comes across as a big pathological liar. So even when she`s faking trying to be decent, she doesn`t come across very well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, there have been a lot of things suggested about Casey`s behavior. I think we`re trying to make sense of the senseless.

The jailhouse recordings played today reveal just such a wide spectrum of emotions from Casey. Check some of this out.


CASEY ANTHONY: I know we`re going to see Caylee. I know she`s coming home. I can feel it.

Hi. I`m good.

Laughter is one of those things that can get you out of whatever you`re feeling. Or even when you`re at your lowest point.

I can`t feel guilty for -- for, you know, laughing.

In my gut, I know she`s still OK. I can feel it, Mom.

I love you, too. And we`re coming home. And we`re all going to be back there. We`re all going to be home together.

I`ve been here a month today. Do you understand how I feel? All I want is my kid back and to be back with my family. And what`s keeping me here, you`re not helping me help myself. You know it`s funny. I`m going to say this and you`re going to laugh. And I think it`s hilarious.

Can someone let me -- come on.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, she`s saying, "If I could only get out of jail, then I`d help find my missing daughter, Caylee." Well, you at one point bailed her out. Did she go and look for her daughter who was missing, Caylee Anthony? What did she do?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Nothing. She got home. She hugged her mom, hugged her dad. Cindy says, "Oh, my gosh. Let`s get you into the shower." She took a shower. Her and Tracy went in there.

The next day we talked about the Zenaida Gonzalez. Nothing about "going to look for my daughter," nothing about anything. In fact, the night that she got out of jail, she fixed dinner for my nephew, the bail agent who bailed her out. But she never once said, "Let`s go look for my daughter. Let`s sit down and do something about this." Nothing like that at all during the whole nine days we were there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And I want to point out that that`s your impression, that your opinion doesn`t reflect the opinions of this network. You had a cease and desist from George and Cindy, and for legal reasons we`re not going to discuss what that cease and desist is all about. But suffice it to say that your opinions...

PADILLA: I got one of those...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... this evening are about your opinions. And we`re going to get more of your opinions in a moment.

All right. Have you got a question about Casey? I know they`re lining up. We`re going to get to you on the other side: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Coming up, I`m going to talk live with Casey Anthony`s former attorney. And what does she think about all this? This is extraordinary.


CASEY ANTHONY: All I want is my kid back, to be back with my family. That`s all I want. That`s all I`m asking. I`ll do whatever the hell I have to to get my family back together. That`s it.

Mom, I know what I`m up against. Do you guys understand what I`m honestly up against? And with keeping me here, you`re not helping me help myself.

CINDY ANTHONY: We don`t have the means to get you out anyway, sweetheart.




CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t have anything. I`m sorry. I`ve been here a month. I`ve been here a month today. Do you understand how I feel? Every day I have to be here and wait and wonder. I`m really not OK. I may be in a place where you know that I`m at. But besides that, besides me being here physically...

CINDY ANTHONY: At least you`re safe and we know where you`re at.

CASEY ANTHONY: I literally have nothing right now. Nothing.

CINDY ANTHONY: Well, none of us have anything right now, Casey.

CASEY ANTHONY: You guys have each other. You`re sitting next to dad. You still have Lee. You have access to our community, to our family and friends, to our house. You`re taking for granted the fact that I have no one to comfort me.

CINDY ANTHONY: You`ll be fine once Caylee is found.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I understand that. Do you understand my position? You guys expect me to have a thousand answers, and I have nothing. I`ve been here a month. You guys still all have each other to lean on. I don`t have anybody. I need to be looked at as a victim, but I`m just as much of a victim as the rest of you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, really? Well, jurors will decide that. They heard hours of extraordinary jailhouse videos. You`re seeing some of the highlights or the low lights.

I`ve got to go to Lisa Bloom. You`re an attorney and the author of the fantastic new book, "Think: Straight Talk for a Woman to Stay Smart in a Dumbed-Down World." Perfect title for today`s subject.

The defense cannot cross-examine a videotape. These are very damaging videos. What does the defense do? How do they handle this?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY/AUTHOR: Well, first of all, I love the graphics that you just played as we listened to that. Because I was thinking the same thing, that for Casey, it`s always about her. "I`m a victim. My life is taken away. I`m not in control. I have nothing." Can you think of any normal mother who has lost a child or whose child has disappeared? All of the concern would be about the child. But for Casey it`s all about her.

Look, the defense, all they can do, really, is wait until closing argument, because I don`t think Casey`s going to take the stand and argue their points at that point. But I think the jury, just watching this today, is going to make the same conclusions that we`re all making, that Casey was a very self-absorbed young woman at a time that her little daughter is missing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney, I know you`re close with the defense, the defense taking a lot of hits today. What say you?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, remember, this is an emotional drama that the prosecutors are playing out and taking hours and hours of court time to play out -- these are videotapes of a jailhouse interview. This is not evidence that goes to the elements of a murder. This is liar, liar, pants on fire.

You know, in a murder case, the first witness always is the medical examiner, and they always start out a murder case with the medical examiner. Oh, they can`t do that here, because they don`t even have a cause of death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to interrupt you for one second. The defense claims the girl died accidentally in the swimming pool. OK? In this video she scoffs at the idea of a swimming pool drowning. She makes fun of it.

WEINTRAUB: I see a different tape than you do. My take on what she said in that interview today was, "Well, huh, it`s not a surprise. Surprise, surprise. Like, of course they`re going to find out. What, did you think, he`s going to hide it?"


WEINTRAUB: That`s what I think. But Jane, either way...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, wait, I`ve got to see the panel. Hold on for one second. How many people on the panel agree with Jayne Weintraub`s interpretation of Casey`s statement when they says there`s a theory about somebody drowning in the swimming pool, and she says, "Surprise, surprise"?

BLOOM: Sorry, Jayne.

CASAREZ: Yes, sorry.

WEINTRAUB: Is it evidence of a murder? Does it make her a killer? I don`t think so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if her explanation of events is not true, that the child didn`t drown in the swimming pool. That`s what I take away from it. But she...

WEINTRAUB: They don`t have to prove that she died in the swimming pool. The state has to prove that she is guilty of first-degree murder beyond and to the exclusion of reasonable doubt. They have not even started.

BLOOM: But Jayne, she says to her father that Caylee is probably still alive. Her father, according to the defense theory now at trial, would know that Caylee has already drowned. It`s a complete contradiction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. I`m going to play that sound bite for you in a moment. But first, I want to go to Gail, Georgia. You`ve been very patient. Your question or thought, Gail?

CALLER: Hi, Jane. Thanks for taking my call. Here`s my straight talk for the evening. Incest does not equal murderer, period. I come from an incested home. I just picked up my six-month chip today, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Congratulations.

CALLER: And none of us killed anyone or had not the sense to call paramedics in the event of a drowning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think that that`s another connect the dots that`s going to be a little difficult for the defense, to make this case that George molested her and therefore, that`s why she did all the things she did and lied the way she did.

I have to play this clip, OK? And I don`t know if we`re going to get to all of it. But let`s play the clip of George -- George talking to Casey. It is fascinating. Listen to this.


CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not doing well, Case. None of us. Lee`s been sick. Dad`s -- Dad`s blowing up at the media.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, I heard.

CINDY ANTHONY: Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning, that she drowned in the pool. That`s the newest story out there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So does that sound like George is covering up something? Does that sound like George knows already that the child drowned and was involved in a cover up? I think not. And we`re going to analyze more of this tape in a second when we come right back. Stay there.



G. ANTHONY: I`ve got a different t-shirt on today.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, I see that. What`s that one?

G. ANTHONY: It`s the same thing as that flyer that we`ve been handing out. Billboards are out there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, Leah (ph) told me about the billboards.

G. ANTHONY: You should see the ones that are on I-drive (ph) down in South Florida, Jacksonville, Gainesville, Tampa, Boca Raton. It`s like 17 or 18 of them that are lit up. I reached out to "America`s Most Wanted."


G. ANTHONY: And if this gets played on the air, I don`t care, but John Walsh who had his son come up missing 18, 20 years ago...


G. ANTHONY: ... I`m going to meet with him. I just hope this person or persons that has her is -- I wish they would just realize, "Oh, my God, I`ve got to get her back to her family." I wish there was more I could do. I would give my life right now for you and for her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does that look and sound like a man who is trying to cover up a crime? To believe the defense, you have to believe that George is an Oscar-worthy method actor, but George looks like somebody who is trying to find a missing girl. He made flyers, T-shirts, billboards. You heard him.

I want to go to Linda Kenney Baden, federal defense attorney. You are Casey Anthony`s former attorney.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that`s devastating for the defense.

BADEN: Jane, you know what, though? Remember, this is the prosecution`s burden, and you know, I don`t think it is so devastating. Because if you listen to the whole tape, George says, "We have to stick together."

Casey says, "I feel more protected in here." Casey says, "I want to speak to you."

George says, "I told your mother things I haven`t told you in the past."

You know, you look at the whole case. You don`t just look at one little statement. If we start looking at statements of people lying and whether they`re actors, we`d have to indict all of Hollywood, because that`s not reality either. If you`re covering up an accident...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. You just lost me. You just lost me with the Hollywood analogy there. These are not actors. These are people. George is not an actor. That`s the point. He`s a former cop.

BADEN: Wait a second. Wait, wait.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And to believe him, you have to believe that he`s lying on that tape, to believe the defense theory.

BADEN: You`re so willing to believe that Casey is the only one that could be a great actress. You know, if you`re raised to be a good actor, and if you have a motive to lie, which is to cover up the possibility that you, too, could go to jail for manslaughter. That`s a pretty good reason to give a good Emmy performance here. You can`t assume it from this simple tape. You have to look at it all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Give me this. This was not a great day for the defense.

BADEN: I will give you that the prosecution had a better day. But they better; it`s their case that has a better day. But the seeds are planted, if you look at everything.

And when we ended the day and we took out the stuff from the car, guess what didn`t smell? The stuff from the car. So I`m not sure...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second. Well, we had -- we had somebody who works with law enforcement who examined the car say it smelled like decomposition.

BADEN: Well, then I guess we don`t need -- I guess we don`t need dogs. Just put a leash and a collar on this guy, because he says he can smell decomposition. But the jury is going to smell what`s in the trunk, and it didn`t smell.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do think you may have a point with the extent of videotape they played. They played hours and hours, and to me it had a numbing effect. I have to admit. At one point, I had to go out and walk my dogs and came back, and Casey Anthony was saying pretty much the same thing. Do you think they may have done a bit of overkill by playing so many hours of tape?

BADEN: I would have tried to play certain clips of the tapes, but I think what they`re trying to do is counteract the evidence where there had been a lot of evidence where they had said that she was a good mother. So they`re trying to show a bad portion of Casey and get the jury to hate her.

It`s very effective, by the way. People get convicted on this. It`s very, very effective. I`m not too sure it`s the winning case if you can`t prove a cause of death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You argued for the defense. On the other side. On the other side.



CASEY ANTHONY: I know we`re going to see Caylee. I know she`s coming home. I can feel it.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Caylee has been gone for 31 days.

CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.

CINDY ANTHONY: Dad`s blowing up at the media.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, I heard.


CASEY ANTHONY: Dad`s the quiet reserved one. We all know this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever sexually molested your daughter Casey Anthony?

G. ANTHONY: No, sir.

CASEY ANTHONY: You are the best father. By far the best grandfather I`ve ever met. I`m going to say that and I mean that with all of my heart.

CINDY ANTHONY: Someone said that Caylee is dead this morning that she drowned in the pool. That`s the newest story out there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight, a riveting jailhouse theory in the Casey Anthony murder trial. Casey goes from giggles to rage. She`s all over the map. But in court Casey was much more subdued. She, in fact, sat stone-faced, shedding a tier just every so often, but mostly just staring out into space. Was she thinking, wow, that woman I`m watching is full of BS? Oh, that woman happens to be me?

I want to go straight out to Michael Christian, senior field producer. You`ve been inside the courtroom. I want to get a sense of the buzz at the courthouse because often you get a good read -- you can`t talk to the jury and apparently they are very stone-faced but you get a good read of how things are playing by talking to people when breaks are taken. What is the buzz in the courtroom and around the courthouse about the impact of these extraordinary tapes?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": Well, you know, it`s interesting Jane, because, you know, these tapes are not a secret. They have been out. We`ve seen bits and pieces of them pretty much since they were recorded.

But you haven`t seen them in this order for this length for two days. And there is such a fascinating, cumulative effect and when you see them played out like this, you can see how there`s a progression. How things change. I think people are just really stunned with how these lies -- and we know they are lies now -- just keep progressing and never really change.

But it`s also fascinating to watch the impact on these people, the parents and the defendant. They are exhausted by the end of these tapes. She`s been in jail now for a month and there`s no sign of Caylee.

And you can see the effect it`s having on poor Mrs. Anthony. She`s crying all the time. You can see Casey getting more and more belligerent, more arrogant, more agitated, more insistent that she`s a victim in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You raise a very good point because as I watch it, the phrase that came to me was emotional terrorism. Casey Anthony knows how to control her parents. She uses lies. She uses rage and it`s absolutely amazing. Watching these videos you have to wonder what is going on inside the minds of Casey`s parents.

And that is my big issue. George and Cindy seem to be going in and out of denial. Of course they hope their granddaughter is still alive but every now and then they snap out of their denial and begin to put the pieces together and wonder what Casey is not telling them.

Check this out.


G. ANTHONY: If something pops into your head that is going to help bring her --

CASEY ANTHONY: Trust me. I`ll let you guys know as soon as possible.

CINDY ANTHONY: I was in Lake County two days ago.


CINDY ANTHONY: Is there anything there?

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, geez --

G. ANTHONY: I can`t be everywhere. That`s the reason why we need to know everything. Anything and everything we can to get her -- everything.

CASEY ANTHONY: I know. I`ve told you guys what I can, what I know, what I`m able to say.

CINDY ANTHONY: We need to have something to go on.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t have anything. I`m sorry. I`ve been here a month -- I`ve been here a month today. Do you understand how I feel?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, you bailed out Casey and spent time with her. It seems to me that every time the parents snap out of denial and ask her a question about what do you know, she erupts into a rage and uses that to control them and get them back into their denial.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNGER: And that`s what got us into this thing. Because we got to thinking, well, you know, she`s probably been over-parented. The granddaughter was taken over by the grandparents. So let`s get her out and I`ll bet you she`ll take us right to that child within hours.

She got out, never -- I`m telling you, never said a word about let`s go find my daughter, let`s go find my child. The fact is, there`s one day when the thing about the death band on the hair came out, she was sitting on the couch with Tracy, my associate, and they were explaining how the hair had to come from either Caylee, Casey, or Cindy.

And she says, "Well, I`m alive," just very cavalier-like. I mean that`s her whole attitude in that house. She never once said, geez --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait. Let me ask you this question. And again, this is your opinion and impression. So this reflects nothing about what we think here. I`m asking you for your opinion and impression.

Do you think that the parents were in denial and every so often they do the math? Connect the dots, and then she would snap back into their denial? In other words, she was controlling their responses with her rage?

PADILLA: I couldn`t have said it any better than that. There was a time when Cindy was headed out to the RV where Rob and some other people were there. And Lee got all upset, told her to go back in the room because she didn`t want Tracy and Casey being left alone to where Casey would, as he said, run her mouth.

It was a situation where -- and I felt bad for George and Cindy. I felt worse for George because George knew -- he knew the lay of the land. He knows what that smell is. He was a homicide detective and smelled that decomposition --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think I get your idea and denial is a very powerful thing. People --

PADILLA: It is. It is. You don`t want to believe it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact, when it comes to your own kids, it`s called the my-dog-doesn`t-have-fleas syndrome.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- that`s why this is so fascinating because so many parents are in denial about their children and their children`s true behavior.

PADILLA: Jane, absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sarah, Tennessee, your question or thought, Sarah?

SARAH TENNESSEE (via telephone): Hi, Jane. The numbers for sexual child abuse are staggering. If one of those jurors has suffered that as a child, would that make them more sympathetic towards her?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lisa Bloom, I think they kind of weed out people who have those kinds of connections to the case.

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Well, yes, but you can`t weed out every potential juror who has experienced sexual abuse, either personally or they know somebody who has. I`ve tried actually a lot of child sexual abuse cases and it`s frustrating to me when those jurors do get weeded out because you want them on the jury.

But I think the whole sexual abuse issue, as sad as it may be if it really happened, is a non-issue in this trial because there`s no connection to the death of little Caylee from something that happened years ago. I think the defense is arguing it simply to try to save Casey from the death penalty ultimately by drumming up a little sympathy for her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I see Jayne Weintraub is very upset there. So I`m going to play a sound bite from the jailhouse tapes that might make her feel a little better because Casey is all over the map.

You heard her say already that Dad is the most awesome father and grandfather in the world. But in this clip, she says the complete opposite. Listen to this.


CASEY ANTHONY: This is one of the main reasons that I chose Dad, is because he won`t sit there and keep asking the same questions 500 times over like you and lee have done. I want to see each and every one of you, but at least with dad, then honestly, the true main reason I want to see him is because him and I have had a broken relationship for such a long time and we were just finally starting to talk the day that this unfolded, the day that I was brought here.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, could that little nugget help the defense?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Of course. The whole problem there was Cindy was upset because she was allowed to choose one person to have a private meeting with and she chose George right away because she knew she had to talk to George, George and George alone.

So what does that tell you? I think the defense had a great day today because they were able to discredit the only evidence that the state tried to put on the witness stand today with the witness from the DNA lab.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you are what they call an optimist. Michael Christian, senior field producer, I know you stay in the objective range but I can`t say that today was a good day for the defense. I think it was a lousy day for the defense.

CHRISTIAN: Well, I don`t think it was the best day they have ever had, hopefully for their side that they`ll have some more. However, I have to say, you know, when you listen to these tapes, the feeling that I keep getting -- and I don`t have children but I`ve got brothers and a sister. I put myself in Lee`s shoes maybe and I just can`t help but feel, watching these things in retrospect, knowing what we know now, how betrayed these people must feel. You know, they are trying so hard to help this woman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are they in the courtroom? Michael, are they in the courtroom? Do you see Cindy and George`s expression?

CHRISTIAN: Cindy and George are there virtually all the time. Lee has been in and out. He hasn`t been there, I think, the last two days. They are there. They stayed pretty stone-faced. They look up and they watch the monitors like everybody else.

But you know, you watch them and you think, here they are trying to help so much they are talking about strangers coming up and helping, missing children people coming up and helping. They must feel incredibly betrayed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the molestation accusation -- yes, it`s the ultimate betrayal you might say.

Stay right where you are. We have even more. And we`re going to come back in a moment. And, of course, we`re taking your calls.

What did you think about today`s incredible jailhouse tapes?


CASEY ANTHONY: I`m just as much of a victim as the rest of you. And it hasn`t been portrayed that way and probably won`t be but I know that the police and there are other people that know that and perceive that.




CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell is going on. I don`t know what`s going on. My entire life has been taken from me. Everything has been taken from me.

I need to be looked at as a victim. I`m just as much of a victim as the rest of you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And her parents don`t say anything. They don`t say, oh, no, you`re not a victim. Ok? The victim here is the little granddaughter who is missing.

These tapes are extraordinary because they reveal -- and my heart goes out to Cindy and George, it really does -- but it reveals incredible family dysfunction.

In my opinion, Lisa Bloom, the family uses what I would call an appeasement strategy with Casey that doesn`t work. Instead of saying, hey -- and have that what they sometimes call a come to Jesus talk, you`ve got to level with us. You`re putting us through hell. They seem to constantly want to appease her. The more they appease, the more she seems emboldened to lie.

BLOOM: Well, and that may have been the family dynamic before all of this started. They had a very difficult teenager and young adult on their hands when she was growing up. And they probably didn`t know how to handle her.

But, look, everybody knows that this videotape was being made as they are talking to her. They knew that in advance. George is former law enforcement. So I don`t think he wants to incriminate his daughter on a tape that he knows is going to get handed over to law enforcement and the prosecution. That`s why they don`t have the come to Jesus moment.

Frankly, what I would say to my own child on a jailhouse tape, tell me what happened if I thought there was a possibility that they had done something wrong? No. I wouldn`t do that. I wouldn`t want to incriminate them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I see your point. They are between a rock and a hard place these poor parents. You can`t help but feel sorry for them.


Gigi, Texas, your question or thought, ma`am?

GIGI, TEXAS (via telephone): Yes. I`m a victim of child abuse myself. And I don`t understand why when Caylee was born that you as a child abuse survivor would take that child into that home where you say your father and your brother has abused you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, well, that`s a fascinating point, Jayne Weintraub. I mean that speaks to, well, maybe this story isn`t real because not only is she praising George as a grandfather on these tapes she`s leaving the little girl Caylee with her grandparents. And why would you do that if you`ve been molested by George and you know that people who molest once will molest children again and again?

WEINTRAUB: Actually there, if you remember, there was a break in the family relationship and there was a point where Casey would not bring the baby into the house until George was out of the house and there was a separation period and I think Jose addressed it in opening statement. But that`s what my memory is. And so I believe -- and Casey referenced it in the tape today as we heard about, that their relationship had been broken for so long.

She did not leave the baby alone with George. The baby was left alone with Cindy, not with George.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thoughts, Leonard? Leonard, thoughts on that? Impressions?

PADILLA: That`s not true. I talked to a lot of neighbors -- I spoke to a lot of neighbors when we were back there and George used to take that baby in a little red flier wagon, all over the neighborhood, talk her around on the streets by himself. A lot of the neighbors complimented George`s love and affection for his granddaughter because he was spending a lot of time with her and it was by himself.

As far as any relationship problems that Casey had with George, they were because of all of her philandering and her running around and George was kind of wise to her lying and all that but Cindy wouldn`t let him put the clamp down on her. That`s where that came from.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, what`s extraordinary, again, about these jailhouse tapes, which were the big thing today in court; we know Casey is well aware that her child is dead during the time that these tapes are made because the defense has now admitted there was never any kidnapping. The child was never missing. She was dead.

Still, Casey even sends her parents on false leads. Check this out.


CASEY ANTHONY: I guess that there`s a lady that came forward on the news. Her and her son were at the airport, said that they saw Caylee, spoke to Caylee.

CINDY ANTHONY: The sheriff`s department is telling us they are fully investigating that.

CASEY ANTHONY: Well, I want someone outside of the sheriff`s department looking into these things. I want Lee to look into this stuff, I want you guys to look into this stuff. I want Jose to look into this stuff.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Lisa Bloom, the defense is saying she hid the truth that her child drowned accidentally because she was molested by her father and therefore she learned to lie. But hiding the truth isn`t the same thing as pro-actively sending people on false leads, is it?

BLOOM: It doesn`t make any sense, Jane. Honestly, I want to give the defense the benefit of the doubt and I certainly want to have all of the evidence in before any of us convicts her, right? But the defense is so crazy. It`s so cockamamie. It doesn`t make any sense and it flies in the face of the evidence we heard just in this first week of trial.

I mean really and George is out there looking for her seemingly, very earnestly wearing a T-shirt and doing everything possible to find his granddaughter when he knows all along that she drowned in the pool? It just doesn`t pass the commonsense test.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. HLN`s extensive coverage of the Casey Anthony trial continues in just a couple of minutes.

At the top of the hour, Nancy Grace live from Orlando. She`s got all the latest breaking developments. That`s 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on HLN.

We`re going to have more. Stay where you are. We are just starting the analysis and we`re also going to tell you how this trial is proceeding. There`s a prediction about when the prosecution will wrap up its case.

And of course, check out my new book, "Addict Nation"



CASEY ANTHONY: You know what`s funny. I`m going to say this and you`re going laugh and I think hilarious. Laughter is one of those things that can get out of whatever you`re feeling even at your lowest point.

I can`t feel guilty for, you know, laughing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony actually is caught laughing on quite a few of these jailhouse tapes. This as her little daughter Caylee is hypothetically missing and the whole world is search for the child even though she has now admitted she knew all along that the child was dead.

I got to give it to someone who is close to the defense, Jayne Weintraub. Explain that if you can.

WEINTRAUB: Jane, here`s the bottom line. We`re in trial for two weeks. And all the state has put on is a bunch of emotional, lying, ranting, crazy if you will, rants from Casey Anthony. How is that proving the facts and elements of a murder case? You know this isn`t just a murder; it`s a death penalty case, beyond and to the exclusion of reasonable doubt without a cause of death.

There`s a lack evidence that the jurors will be instructed in Florida to consider -- the lack of evidence of a murder. And that`s what you have. And Jose demonstrated that today with the DNA expert on the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You made a good point. Michael Christian we`re talking about these tapes. There was a lot of drawn out forensic testimony that we haven`t gotten to because a lot of us couldn`t figure out what the point was.

I mean there was talk of removing the things from the trunk but yet they didn`t seem to score any home runs, the prosecution. They didn`t talk about the stain that has an outline of a baby that we were all expecting. So we didn`t use those sound bites.

Christian You know, this is the part of the trial that everybody hates, Jane, because it`s just deadly boring. There`s no other way to describe it. They got to do this. They got to show the evidence was collected. They`ve got to show where it was collected from, how it was processed -- all this chain of custody stuff.

They have to show that this stuff was picked up and get it to where it was ultimately analyzed. It is not the most interesting part of the trial. It`s never going to be the most important --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But wait a second, Michael --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: They say they`re going to wrap up in two weeks. The prosecution says it`s going to wrap up in two weeks, I hear.

CHRISTIAN: Yes, two weeks from today. They said that at the end of court today. They`re two weeks into this trial. They apparently need two more weeks to finish their case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I guess what I`m saying is Lisa Bloom, Jayne Weintraub has a point. Maybe they don`t have the forensics?

BLOOM: Well, they probably don`t. But they don`t actually need forensics, you know. Many People are convicted without any forensics at all. I mean that happens every day. We have this CSI culture where we expect there to be a lot of DNA evidence and hair and fiber and so forth in every case. But often it`s not there.

And unfortunately little Caylee`s remain were found more than six months after she disappeared so because of the decomposure (ph) there just isn`t a lot of forensic evidence here. But we certainly do know that she`s deceased.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we are going to hear about hair -- we heard about hairs and there`s a lot of them and there`s going to a lot of debate about the hairs and there`s this one hair that supposedly shows decomposition. We have the cadaver dogs hitting. We have the controversial air samples.

Are we going to hear all about that in two weeks? I don`t think so. I think that`s ambitious, but I hope they`re right.

Becky, Virginia your quick question or thought, ma`am.

BECKY, VIRGINIA (via telephone): George told Casey today that when Caylee got home he wanted to take her for a swim, and I just think that if they had really found her drowned in the pool that he would have to be one sadistic demented person to make a comment like that and I just don`t buy it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Who was shaking their head? Wow. Michael, go for it.

CHRISTIAN: Yes. That`s absolutely right. I mean, you know, you listen to this stuff. George does not sound like he`s done anything wrong in any way shape, or form. But you have to remember, a lot of people thought that Casey sounded like he had --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love you fabulous panel. Final thoughts --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony`s trial has turned into one of the biggest public spectacles I`ve ever seen. Why are people so fascinated with Casey Anthony that they are willing to stampede to get into court? I think it`s because we`re getting a window into extraordinarily dysfunctional family dynamics.

We all have families and family problems. But whatever is going on with our families, chances are that nothing is going to be as dysfunctional as the Anthony family.

This young woman, Casey Anthony has basically taken her whole family hostage with what I would call emotional terrorism. She manipulates her family using lies and rage to keep them in line, to keep them in denial.

If we can learn anything from this circus, it`s this. It`s unwise to appease troubled family numbers. It may signal to them that it`s A-OK to become a monster.

Nancy Grace up next and more live trial coverage here on HLN tomorrow morning.