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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Casey Weeps at Graphic Photos

Aired June 9, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, emotions overflow in the Casey Anthony trial. Casey breaks down and sobs as the prosecution shows extremely graphic photos of little Caylee`s skull. Were George and Cindy able to endure it, or did they flee the courtroom?

BELVIN PERRY, JUDGE: I just wanted to give you fair warning: if you cannot control your emotions, this would be a good time to exit.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meanwhile, brother Lee back on the stand again. Did Casey tell him yet another vicious lie about little Caylee`s disappearance?

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY: During that meeting, Zanny held Casey down and told her that she was taking Caylee from her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, the prosecution and the defense, head to head. As they battle it out, we`re listening to the very best trial moments.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: Certain crime scene photographs, for those of you who may have queasiness or uneasiness, cannot control your emotions, I ask you to leave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the skull shown in this photograph?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it is.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY: The smell of the car was like something I had never -- it was pretty strong. I use that expression, you know, "What died?"

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of the way, cameraman!

GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY: That particular smell, whenever you smell it, it`s something you never forget.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my experience, the smell that I smelled inside that car was the smell of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The odor that came out of the trunk was even more strong than the odor that came out of the vehicle when we opened it. There were a few flies that flew out.

CASEY ANTHONY, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: Can somebody let me -- come on!

L. ANTHONY: Zanny held Casey down and told her that she was taking Caylee from her.

It was very potent, very strong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just a corroboration of what my nose tells me was correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, high drama in the court. Casey Anthony sobs, seemingly uncontrollably, as investigators testify about finding little Caylee`s skull.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a close-up photograph of the duct tape that was on the front of the skull, and in the photograph you can also see the clothing remnants.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jurors were completely transfixed as a these graphic photos of Caylee`s skull were shown in the courtroom. Now, we have pixilated these images because they are that disturbing. The judge even warned anyone who may have a weak stomach, get out of the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: For those of you who may have queasiness or uneasiness about enduring these types of photographs, where you may have facial reactions or cannot control your emotions, I ask you to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that is when Cindy and George fled the courtroom, understandably unable to the gruesome details about their precious granddaughter`s remains.

Earlier today, prosecutors called Casey`s brother, Lee, back to the stand. Now, he said when Casey was bailed back in August in 2008, she gave her brother a completely different version of her wild "Zanny the nanny took the baby" fabrication. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your sister tell you a different version of how Caylee was taken from her?

L. ANTHONY: Yes, she did. Zanny held Casey down and told her that she was taking Caylee from her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hello! We already know there is no Zanny, and we already know Casey`s a liar. So what`s the point of that story? Why did the state bring Lee back to the stand to tell that story filled with lies?

And what about Casey`s sobbing? Were those tears of an innocent, grieving mother, or tears of a killer?

Straight out to "In Session" correspondent Jean Casarez at the courthouse in Orlando, Florida.

Jean, an extraordinarily emotional day. You were inside the courtroom as it all went down. Take us there as these gruesome skull photos of little Caylee were unveiled. What happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": You know, Jane, what the jury saw today is that somebody took the little body of Caylee Anthony and put her in a black plastic trash bag and threw it out into an area that they call a wooded area. Jane, let me tell you what I saw. It was vegetated. It was tropical. There were so many vines and roots and growths.

And when I saw the jury look at the first picture of the skull of little Caylee Anthony, exactly how they found it in that tropical vegetation, it was a dome shape that the jury saw. I saw them just sort of shocked. I didn`t see tears, but I saw they couldn`t believe what they were seeing. Because they`ve seen live pictures of Caylee. They`ve seen her smiling. They`ve seen a Caylee Anthony very healthy. And now not to see a body but just to see a skull.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jean, let me ask you about this. One of the photos of Caylee`s skull shows actual strands of damp hair pressed against it. Again, we actually had to obscure these photos, because they are that graphic. Imagine a skull of a child.

Casey wept, she sobbed, seemingly uncontrollably, through this entire presentation of the crime-scene photos. Her attorney, Dorothy Sims, one of the female attorneys was rubbing her back to comfort her.

So tell us about Casey. Because it looks to me like she`s not even looking at the photos. So why is she crying if she`s looking down and not at the photos, Jean?

CASAREZ: Well, she`s hearing testimony. She`s hearing a description of the photographs. You know, this is a really big courtroom. There is the largest courtroom in the courthouse. So there is no one in that courtroom that can truly see her eyes to see if the tears are coming down, but her nose got very red. She turned to her side, wouldn`t look up. She did look at the original foliage pictures, but the minute that skull was shown, she turned away. And for the rest of that examination, she appeared to be crying and consoling herself, basically.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words, she may have glanced briefly or just even heard the word "skull," and she did not look at those photos at all. She kept her head down and refused to look at them. Yes or no?

CASAREZ: Yes, you`re exactly right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, here is my big issue. What is behind all of Casey`s tears? Yes, we saw Casey cry a whole lot in court today, especially during this very graphic testimony about her daughter`s remains, her daughter`s skull.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This photograph shows the skull and the front of the skull.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let`s open it up to our panel. Are those tears of guilt? Remembering placing little Caylee`s body there and feeling remorse? Or is she an innocent woman and just reacting as any mother would to details of her daughter`s remains?

Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, do you think this softens her in the eyes of the jury, the fact that she`s weeping?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, not -- not looking at these photos. I don`t think it softens her whatsoever.

In fact, during Dr. Utz, who was on the stand right now, who was on the stand earlier, he was describing in more of the clinical setting, looking at the photos after he had received the body at the morgue and, look, I thought she was going to be sick. She would not look at that. I had the Casey cam right next to me in studio, Jane, and she was trying -- it looked like she was having trouble breathing. It looked like she was going to be sick.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda Kenney Baden, criminal defense attorney, you used to be on Casey Anthony`s defense team. I wonder, given the massive history of lying that we`ve heard in this courtroom, and we`ve heard some more lies that Casey told to brother Lee. We`re going to -- getting to that in a second. But do you think that sort of knocks out any sympathy that the jurors will have when they see her crying? Do they feel, perhaps, well, "I`m going to be manipulated again, so I`m not going to get emotionally invested in this young lady"?

LINDA KENNEY BADEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m not sure the jurors are that clinical about it. And I don`t think you can read into whether or not she`s looking at the photographs or not looking at the photographs. Her attorneys would have shown her these photographs, probably, in passing, to get her a little used to it, so we don`t have a -- don`t have a scene in court. So I don`t think you can read about anything about the crying or not crying into this, Jane.

It`s a very emotional day, and it`s obviously the greatest danger for a defense attorney trying this case, because it`s the emotion that can take over, sometimes, reason when you see an innocent child in death, because death is not even pretty for adults. It`s definitely not pretty for children.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jean Casarez, so much has been going down. I understand that Cindy and George fled. They didn`t want to watch this. And we`ve been hearing some new information that happened late in the day about Casey. Apparently, she became ill at one point, which she has done before. Tell us about that.

CASAREZ: You know, she has stress attacks. I think that that`s what they are. And she appeared calm when I saw her, but if she did, that is reminiscent of jury selection. As the attorneys begin to tell the prospective jurors, "This is a death penalty case," she became very stressed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And at one point -- I`ve got to go back to Mike Brooks -- she said her hand froze up and she had to leave the courtroom. Now she`s ill again today and leaving the courtroom. Do you buy it? Or do you think she might be playing to the jury?

BROOKS: You know, again, I have to agree with Linda on this one thing. It`s really hard to tell. But I guarantee you the jurors are watching that and what conclusions they may draw from any of this, they only know. But sometimes it is hard to tell.

But it looked like it is emotion. Is she reliving what may have happened? Is she thinking about little Caylee because -- and what she -- I mean, the last moments with her, possibly? We don`t know. And that`s what the jurors are thinking about, too, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So a day of momentous moments again. Casey Anthony becomes ill in court. We`re going to bring you the very latest on -- this is her second illness already, at least, where she`s basically said, "I can`t proceed. I need to take a break" Is it genuine? Is it medically- based or is it an attempt to sway the jury?

Stay on top with everything. Stay right here with ISSUES. We`re taking your calls, as well. We`re coming right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is this item at the bottom of the photograph?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That would be the front of the skull with duct tape. This would be the off-white canvas bag. This large item is the black plastic bag, and in this photograph you can also see the skull.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inhalation, death, or self-defense, hand-to-hand combat, head injuries, middle underscore meningeal artery. Ruptured spleen, chest trauma, internal bleeding. How to make chloroform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a lot to be confronted with if you are the defendant, sitting there, listening to all the evidence against you, and apparently, it is making Casey Anthony sick.

Now, she got sick in court today, and I would have to tell you that this is not the very first time that Casey has gotten ill. Take a look at this video. This is from back in May where Casey became ill. I think she said something to the effect of her hand kind of froze up, and she was actually forced to leave the courtroom back in May.

So Ryan Smith, what`s -- what can we deduce from the fact that she keeps getting sick and then they have to put a halt to the trial, and obviously, that slows down the entire case?

RYAN SMITH, HOST, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": It absolutely does. It puts things off a little bit, especially when the judge in this case is trying to keep his trial moving.

But Jane, what I have to say is you look at these situations when she has these attacks. Today it was right after there was evidence introduced about a child`s shorts being found at the scene, presumably Caylee`s shorts. Then Casey Anthony started looking down, after -- they took a recess. She`s looking down, and she`s not talking to anyone. Dorothy Clay Simms, her attorney, tries to talk to her. She doesn`t say anything.

And then she`s excused from the courtroom, and the judge later announces to the jury that she`s ill. It usually happens when the enormity of the case takes over. Last time it was right around the time when the charges against her were read to the jury. And that was key.

This time it maybe comes from seeing some of this evidence, this powerful evidence. I think when the enormity hits her of what`s going on here and what`s she`s facing, she has that breakdown.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda Kenney Baden, you were on the defense team. You have talked to this defendant. Many in the public, because of all of the publicity surrounding this case, regard her as very coldhearted, conniving, cunning, a liar. Emotionally, how does she come off to you?

BADEN: Well, you know, Jane, I can`t really talk about my meetings with her. What I can say is my perception of her is that I liked her. And I don`t think you can infer, because she was sick here, maybe the enormity of what she saw was done with her child by what they`re alleging is someone else taking the child. Maybe it`s something else.

And one of the things I would like to mention is that remember, I think even Jean said when she was in the courtroom, she had a hard time, Jean, seeing the skull in that area. So I mean, you have to look closely and maybe once you look closely, it was terrible. But then you have to ask yourself, and Chaney Mason started questioning her about this, about -- the crime scene technician is, well, if you couldn`t see it, how did you see it? What did you see? You know, where was it? And if it`s hard to see, how did Mr. Kronk see it?

So I think it`s everything. I think all of that is hitting her. I mean, you wouldn`t want to...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maybe if she`s being hit by the fact of her brother - - maybe -- maybe she`s being hit by the fact that her brother was called back to the stand today to testify for the prosecution. Now, I can`t figure out why prosecutors called Lee Anthony back to the stand, but he described more of these bizarre lies about Zanny the nanny. A new story. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she indicate that she did anything to stop Zanny (ph) from taking her?

L. ANTHONY: She did not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she tell you why she didn`t?

L. ANTHONY: That she was scared and she didn`t know what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, this is the second story that Casey Anthony told her brother. This is when she was bailed out in August.

BROOKS: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she comes up with this whole new story. Oh, no, she didn`t drop the baby off at Sawgrass Apartments. She was at Jay Blanchard Park, and Zanny and her sister came and tackled her and put her to the ground and then took the child away, saying, "We`re taking the child because you`re a bad mother."

Why is the prosecution presenting this? We already know that there`s no Zanny. We already know that Casey is a pathological liar. How does it advance the prosecution`s case?

BROOKS: Well, they also called him back to ask him about the use of the family computer at the Anthony home. And again, this was after the -- August 20, when Leonard Padilla had bailed her out. And she was back home, and he was talking to her.

And I think, again, it`s just to go to her stories and also think about this. She said that she was held to the ground by Zanny and her sister. Does this go, Jane, to the computer searches?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Coming up next, we`re going to talk to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. He knows all about the search for little Caylee. And I`m going to talk to him about Casey getting sick and what he makes of it, because he knows Casey. He spent time with her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: OK. Ladies and gentlemen of the media, Miss Anthony is ill. We are recessing for the day. Neither the state nor the defense has any comments concerning her illness, nor do they want to be interviewed. I would ask that you preserve their privacy as they leave the courthouse today. OK. This court will be in recess until 9 a.m. tomorrow morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You heard it. It was a dramatic development in court today, a day of dramatic developments. There you see Casey Anthony, who says she has become ill, being escorted out of the courtroom. They had to end early.

And obviously, this was a day where -- take a look at her. She seems -- she does seem here -- either she`s acting or she seems overwhelmed by what transpired in court today, mainly showing of the skulls. The skull of her child was shown in photo after photo after photo after photo.

Was she overcome by remorse and feelings of guilt, because she left the remains there? Or was she overcome because she`s an innocent woman, and she`s devastated by seeing the remains of her child, who she claims died accidentally in the swimming pool. And we still have no explanation for the defense of how the child ended up in the woods where the child was found.

Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, you know Casey Anthony. You bailed her out at one point. What do you make of her becoming ill today?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: She is no sicker right now than you and me.

Let me see if I can explain it this way. The Barry Bonds case, I talked to one of the jurors afterwards, because the attorney that went down because of that leak and the information incidentally, he just wrote a book, one of the jurors after that case said what annoyed him the most was a couple times when Barry Bonds looked like he was getting ill or not looking well. Well, it`s the same situation here.

She thinks that`s going to get her sympathy. That`s going to work against her because, first of all, I know that she`s as tough as a horse. There is no weak bone in her body.

No. 2, she knew for 31 days that her child was dead, never shed a tear, never broke a stride, and she`s still in the same area. The only thing that upsets her sometimes is when somebody says something that she might have to adhere to. When she`s sitting in the jail and she says, "Let me speak. Nobody`s letting me talk," you know, that`s the only time that she gets upset. But that`s not her there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something, this woman would have been an amazing Oscar-winning actress, because I`m looking at the video of her being escorted out and, to all appearances, it looks as if she is ill. And earlier, we showed you that she was crying and weeping during court. I think it`s possible, Leonard, that...

PADILLA: No. Let me break in, before I forget this. OK. She`s walking out of the jail. It`s raining. Kathy Belich (ph) is holding a microphone under the umbrella that Jose is holding and says, "Jose, did your client kill her child?" or something to that affect.

Afterwards, Jose said that the statement that she made was, "I`m walking out of here. I`m innocent with my head held up high." Do you know what she actually said? "Jose, get me the `F` out of here."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

PADILLA: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re not buying any of it? Because...

PADILLA: No, not one second.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she is sick? All right.

PADILLA: No, she`s not sick.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A shocking day. We`ll have more next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, PRESIDING OVER CASEY ANTHONY CASE: Ok ladies and gentlemen of the media, Miss Anthony is ill. We are recessing for the day. Neither the state nor the defense has any comments concerning her illness nor do they want to be interviewed. I would ask that you preserve their privacy as they leave the courthouse today.

Ok. This court will be in recess until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: And with that, the day was over; another dramatic, astounding day in the Casey Anthony murder trial. We`re going to show you video right now of Casey Anthony becoming, quote, "ill", ok; absolutely ill inside the courtroom, she says, to the point where they have to stop the proceedings for the day and she had to be escorted out. There she is.

You can see her attorney or one of her attorneys, a female, Dorothy Clay Simms (ph) on one side now; one the bailiffs escorts her out and she heads out. And one of the reasons perhaps why she couldn`t take it and became ill was that this was a day of extremely graphic testimony. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This photograph shows the skull and the front of the skull.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. So jurors in this Anthony case were bombarded with graphic -- I mean graphic, gruesome, heartbreaking crime scene photos, particularly of little Caylee Anthony`s decomposed remains and her skull. These are the remains of the dead child.

The debate is how did the child get there? Was it as a result of murder by her mom, Casey, or was it the result of an accidental drowning and, if so, the defense has yet to explain how the body got from the swimming pool of the Anthony family home to the woods less than a mile away from the Anthony family home.

I`m going to go to Bradford Cohen, Florida criminal defense attorney; you`ve been following this case from the beginning. First of all, as we show you again a video of Casey Anthony being escorted out today, do you buy it? Because we just heard from Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who knows Casey, saying no, he doesn`t buy it for a second. He thinks this is a big act.

BRADFORD COHEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean from what I can see, it looks legit. I mean Leonard Padilla obviously had contact her and knows her a little bit better than everyone else who is watching the screen. But I think it`s legit. I just don`t know if it`s legit because she`s upset by seeing those pictures, who everyone naturally would be upset by hearing the details and knowing that other people are seeing those pictures.

Or she`s upset because now it`s coming down, crashing around her and she`s actually seeing what is going on and she knows there`s a lot of evidence here that`s building like a mountain against her. So is that what made her upset?

I don`t know. But it does look like she`s legitimately upset. We just don`t know why she is legitimately upset.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jay Hebert, criminal defense attorney, you`ve done many high-profile cases. Is this a technique? And, if so, if this young lady is lying, as bounty hunter Leonard Padilla suggests, would the defense team be in on it or would she do this on her own, completely independent?

JAY HEBERT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think if she`s doing it, she`s got to be on her own. There`s no doubt about it. The reality of the situation is reality is setting in for this young girl. Nobody can sit and watch and not be moved by this powerful testimony.

What happened today, Jane, was extremely interesting as little Caylee came back into the courtroom. And for the first time the jurors are getting to see that. Everybody who saw what happened today and watched the faces of the jurors were moved because Caylee came in.

And if you remember in Jose`s opening, I watched it again last night, he says that when George came around with the pool, he was holding little Caylee and she cried and cried and cried. Well, we didn`t see the tears for 31 days and we certainly didn`t see them in the jailhouse interviews but we now saw them today.

The question becomes, are they for Caylee or are they for are Casey because reality is setting in on her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s face it, and we`ve got some photos that we have pixilated of the skull that was shown in court today. Now, the judge actually issued a warning before Casey got sick that, hey, if you`re weak of stomach or of heart, get out because this is going to be gruesome. We`ve pixilated the skull.

But imagine taking a look at that, it was something that was so intense that actually Cindy and George got up and they left court because they didn`t want to see one single photo, Mike Brooks.

And then Casey`s there. She doesn`t really look at it, according to people who were in court. She doesn`t look at the skull but she`s hearing the testimony and then she gets sick. What do you make of it?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I`m sitting there in the studio, Jane, and I`ve got -- the call it the Casey-cam. That`s the direct camera that points right on her. It`s right to my left about three feet from me and it`s huge. So I`m watching it, it`s like sitting right at the table looking at her.

Early on in the testimony of the crime scene investigator who was there and took some pictures, you saw some tears but then after that you saw the chief investigator for the medical examiner and you see her dabbing but I don`t see any tears.

But then right after lunch you saw Dr. Utz (ph), the deputy chief medical examiner and he was looking at the pictures and describing the pictures we showed to the jury and gallery and the clinical study at the morgue. That`s when it looks like she started to get physically ill as she put her hand over her mouth. She was taking deep breaths. It almost looked like she was having trouble breathing, possibly having a panic attack.

But you know what? I`m going to have to agree with Leonard. I think it could be an act. I think it could be an act.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think what might have gotten to her was the mention of the clothing. Apparently there were shots of shorts that were shown.

BROOKS: When they showed them, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there was -- the only thing that was left of the blanket, it was so flimsy that investigators thought originally was a towel and then there was the collar of a shirt. So I think sometimes those little details have more of an emotional impact than even seeing the skull.

But I think another aspect of it is that her brother, Lee, was called back to the stand today for the prosecution to describe to the jurors another lie that Casey told. So maybe it was the one-two punch of seeing her brother who she has now accused of molesting her. So she`s destroyed his life and committed a terrible betrayal if it`s not true. And so he gets on the stand and he`s probably not too happy with her, I would think.

And so let`s talk a little bit about what he says. He basically describes how the Zanny the nanny story got even stranger when she was bailed out in August and Lee testified Casey told him, hey, I didn`t really leave her at the Saw Grass Apartments. No I was at Jay Blanchard Park when Zanny and her sister showed up and they pinned me down to a park bench and they kidnapped little Caylee because they believed that I`m not a good mother. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: In Zanny`s opinion, Casey was not being a good mother to Caylee or wouldn`t be a good mother for Caylee and she was taking her -- taking Caylee from her to teach her a lesson and also told her not to go to the police or anything like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Cindy and Casey allegedly had a very nasty fight the night before little Caylee vanished. Cindy reportedly said words to the effect of "you`re an unfit mom".

So Leonard Padilla, you know this family, do you believe that Casey might have been projecting this little bit of reality on to the Zanny fantasy, sort of incorporating what her mom actually really said to her that night into this new lie about Zanny taking the baby because she didn`t feel that Casey was a good mom?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Remember the movie, "The Usual Suspects"?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

PADILLA: The guy incorporates everything into the questioning that is going on and all that.

(CROSSTALK)

PADILLA: Yes, ok. She does that. Casey does that. She picks up on the Kia, she calls it a Focus. She says Samantha is Zenaida`s sister`s name. No, Samantha`s a girl that she knows that she lives upstairs next to Dante. She incorporates all these things.

She didn`t tell me anything about a computer. She told me that she was given a list of 30 things to tell the cops as far as lies to keep them going for the next 30 days. Now, when you come back from the break, ask me about the white board they talked about today.

BROOKS: Leonard, you should have left her in jail, Leonard.

PADILLA: I made a mistake. I thought the baby was alive. I made a mistake.

BROOKS: There you go.

PADILLA: Every day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. There are so many details of this lie. Today I saw on the Internet that somebody has published a Zenaida Gonzalez family tree with all these fake people and all the details about what cars they drive, what their hair color is. It`s unbelievable.

Laura, California, thank you for your patience. Your question or thought, ma`am?

LAURA, CALIFORNIA: You`ve been talking about the effects -- they haven`t really covered the effects of chloroform and how it affect the body and basically does it make you go to sleep and then wake up after a certain duration of hours?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent question. Mike Brooks, can you address that quickly?

BROOKS: It depends on the strength of the chloroform. It can leave you knocked out for quite some time and you can also overdose. It`s a chemical. So it`s a very volatile chemical and you can overdose on chloroform.

But most of the time it just knocks you out for just a short amount of time because it`s applied and then it`s taken away. But if it`s kept on for quite some time, it can cause death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Panel, hang tight. Nancy Grace, live from Orlando with the very latest developments at the top of the hour right here on HLN.

So, who is doing a better job proving their case? We`re going to give you, up next, the key moments, the best moments for the prosecution and the defense in this astounding, wild trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she indicate that she did anything to stop?

L. ANTHONY: She did not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she tell you why she didn`t do anything?

L. ANTHONY: That she was scared and she didn`t know what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. ANTHONY: In Zanny`s opinion Casey was not being a good mother.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know what your involvement is sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.

CASEY ANTHONY, ACCUSED OF MURDERING DAUGHTER: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?

CINDY ANTHONY: You slandered me on TV and you`ve perjured yourself with this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you raised Casey to always tell the truth?

CINDY ANTHONY: I thought I did. Yes I did. I tried.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It never occurred to you that these stories and these people that Casey was talking about were not real?

CINDY ANTHONY: No, sir.

CASEY ANTHONY: My mom flat out told me yesterday she will never be able to forgive me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey told me she was crazy.

I remember there was a time when she told me that her mom had told her that she was an unfit mom.

CINDY ANTHONY: Whose fault is it that you`re sitting in jail. Are you blaming me because you`re sitting in the jail?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t want to talk to you right now. Forget it.

GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: This is destroying your mother. She hurts so much.

CINDY ANTHONY: This is my granddaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am. (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I`m extremely involved in this case. This is tearing me up every single day.

CASEY ANTHONY: I called to talk to my mother and it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste.

I`m absolutely petrified -- absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me.

PERRY: For those of you who may have queasiness or uneasiness or cannot control your emotions, I ask you to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s been a roller coaster ride for both sides in the Casey Anthony trial. Tonight we`re looking at the best moments for both sides. Pretty fascinating stuff.

What I have to start with is Jay Hebert, criminal defense attorney, is it even now or who is winning? Who do you think is winning at this point? It should be the prosecution because this is the prosecution`s case. And if they are not winning at this point, chances are they won`t be winning at the end of the defense case.

HEBERT: Well, keep in mind that I think we all came out of the opening statements with a whole different appreciation of how this case was going to proceed and all we talked about was Jose Baez`s opening and the allegations of sexual abuse and the accidental drowning. The defense hasn`t done much to keep up with that end of the bargain and we`ll have to wait and see.

But you`re absolutely right, Jane. In any criminal case, the prosecution should be winning or things are going horrid (ph) for them. And I think in this situation, this is a circumstantial evidence case. They are building this layer by layer by layer and they are putting their case together methodically and I think they`re being very effective about it.

When you hear 84 clicks on a mouse for chloroform -- when you hear those kinds of things, I think that resonates with this jury. They want answers. Whether Casey takes the stand and gives it to them, we`ll have to stay tuned.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right. That`s why I made this sign yesterday -- 84; 84 searches that in some way, shape or form, either involved a site connected to chloroform or the word "chloroform". That`s incriminating.

Now, the prosecution scored one of its biggest wins by contrasting emotional extremes. Watch and listen to Cindy, the defendant`s mother, reliving her infamous 911 call and then Casey as she sits there like a zombie during the playback of her confrontation with cops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee`s missing. Caylee`s missing. Casey said Zanny took her a month ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you scared about something that happened or are you really this cold callous person who doesn`t care about what happened? (INAUDIBLE)

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m scared that -- I don`t know where my daughter is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bradford Cohen, this is a huge win for the prosecution because it`s like supersized testimony and evidence. The sum is greater than the parts, is it not?

COHEN: I mean certainly there`s some damning evidence. The question is, is it first-degree murder. That`s what you have to keep coming back to. And did she click on it 84 times, "chloroform", we don`t know if she did. We know someone did. Did people do other searches on there? We know someone did those searches. The question is, is she so conniving, is she so thoughtful about this premeditated murder that she would look these things up three months before, organize all these things, come to all of this conclusion and then screw up a first-degree murder as badly as this one was screwed up in terms of stories, in terms of where she was, how she acted afterwards?

It doesn`t make a lot of sense in terms of first-degree murder. Now, was there a death? Absolutely. But was it first-degree murder? That`s the question that everyone has to keep coming back to and that`s the question that they have to prove, that it was first-degree murder. Not that it was manslaughter or some other form of murder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mike Brooks, I think another huge moment for the prosecution -- it was a series of moments -- the fact that at least six individuals have said they smelled the stench of death in the car, plus two cadaver dogs smelled the stench of death.

BROOKS: And these are people who have experience smelling human decomposition, Jane, including the two cadaver dogs, Gerus and Bones. These are very well trained dogs, two very experienced handlers and I think --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The defense next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you describe to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the way Caylee loved her mother?

MALLORY PARKER, LEE ANTHONY`S FIANCEE: It was amazing. Excuse me. Casey and Caylee had a very special bond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now that had to be one of the biggest moments for the defense. This is a prosecution witness. This is the fiancee of Casey`s brother Lee. She gets on the stand and she essentially says Casey is an amazing mother who had an amazing relationship with her daughter Caylee.

Jay Hebert, criminal defense attorney, score one big for the defense, or let`s throw it out to Brad Cohen?

COHEN: Well, certainly it helps the defense. There`s not even a question that it helps the defense. But does it help them negate whether or not she did something by accident? I mean, you know, it`s tough. It`s a very tough call with this type of case in terms of what you are reading with the jury.

When you see someone say she had an amazing relationship with the kid and all these things and then look at all these lies that she did and the thing is she didn`t report it for 30 days and the way she acted for those 30 days it negates what was said on the stand. It`s very difficult to judge whether or not this was a huge win for the defense. I think it certainly helped.

BROOKS: Susan Smith and Andrea Yates were also -- everybody said that they were great mothers, too, Jane but they killed their kids, too.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Here`s another, I think, brilliant move by the defense. And it was Jose Baez`s opening statement where he reveals the drowning. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Caylee Anthony died on June 16th, 2008, when she drowned in her family`s swimming pool. As soon as Casey came around this corner and went back, she saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms. She immediately grabbed Caylee and began to cry and cry and cry.

And shortly thereafter, George began to yell at her, "Look what you`ve done. Your mother will never forgive you, and you will go to jail for child neglect for the rest of your frickin` life."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard Padilla, brilliant move. In one fell swoop, he pulls the rug out from under the prosecution. Basically admitting she`s a pathological liar and taking away their whole kidnapping theory. It seems like a lot of times the prosecution is still arguing the kidnapping case which they admitted was a lie in opening statements.

PADILLA: Well, the problem with Jose is, he`s really got nowhere to go. This woman, Casey, told him what basically she wanted to tell him during one of her original visits with him in jail. Now one of the things you have to understand is law enforcement knew where that body was as far back as August. A lot of people don`t want to believe me. They knew where the body was as far back as August.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s your theory.

PADILLA: Correct -- theory. When Jose asked today about the white board, did you see a white board on the tree? And the CSI guy says, no, I didn`t. That`s because there is a white board on a tree but it`s 70-some feet down the road which is the areas that Kronk described.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re obsessed -- we all have our obsessions in this case and you are obsessed with the white board. I`m not exactly sure why. But I have to say --

PADILLA: Because law enforcement knew what was --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Both sides have had very high moments.

Final thoughts up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to have Wendy Murphy on ISSUES tomorrow and she doesn`t feel that the prosecution is connecting the dots.

Bradford Cohen, what do you think?

COHEN: I personally think that they are absolutely connecting the dots. I mean it`s impossible to say they`re not. They are methodically going through step by step in building the mountain against her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just didn`t understand. They brought Lee to the stand. He tells another one of her lies and they didn`t connect the dots that, well, maybe this is a sign that she`s covering up something because they discovered that there was videotape that showed that her original explanation of what she did with the child is a lie because there was videotape of the child after that date. They didn`t connect the dots there. So it`s left to the jurors to decide why is Lee telling another lie?

Ten seconds. Brad?

COHEN: I just think that, like I said, they are adding it up. He also testified a little bit about the computer. I think they are just adding it up and piling it up against her to show that she`s a compulsive liar --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Maybe you`re right.

Nancy Grace up next.

END