Return to Transcripts main page

NANCY GRACE

Cindy Anthony Called to the Stand Again in Daughter`s Murder Trial

Aired June 14, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way. Tot mom`s lawyer tells a stunned courtroom she`s got nothing to do with Caylee`s death, but that her own father, ex-cop George Anthony, shows up with Caylee`s dead body, then hides it, leaving it to rot. Tot mom also claims father George and brother Lee both sexually molest her.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, grandmother Cindy Anthony called back to the witness stand, and to this day, she`s still trying to protect her daughter, tot mom, some court watchers saying to the point of changing her testimony. Throughout grandmother Cindy`s testimony, Cindy breaks down in tears while tot mom sits looking bored and irritated as her own mother cries on the stand. As Cindy Anthony steps down from the stand, she mouths a silent message to her daughter, tot mom, I love you. Tot mom, cold and calculated, simply turns away.

A heart-shaped sticker and duct tape take center stage in court today as we learn in the days after Caylee goes missing, tot mom gets a tattoo to "the good life" and stays at the tattoo parlor for a pizza party. Not one mention of 2-year-old Caylee. And a new defense angle revealed in the last hours, the defense claiming someone else dressed little Caylee post-mortem after her death in the wrong-size clothes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spiteful bitch.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Caylee`s missing! Caylee`s missing!

GRACE: What was her relationship with tot mom? How did they interact?

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey says Zanny took her a month ago!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, looking back, you know, that`s the scariest part. She was a very attentive mother.

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter finally admitted that the baby-sitter stole her! I need to find her!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zanny the nanny. Did you ever see a photograph of Zanny the nanny?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

CINDY ANTHONY: I know she`s alive and I know she`s out there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you familiar with whether or not there were heart stickers...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Located in the bedroom of Casey Anthony?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere, and you`re worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During the execution of that search warrant on December 20th of 2008.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, there were.

CINDY ANTHONY: Has been missing for a month! Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.

911 OPERATOR: OK, what...

CINDY ANTHONY: Get someone here now!

She lived with me for three years. I`ve never seen anything.

We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl!

There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, grandmother Cindy Anthony called back to the witness stand, and to this day, Cindy still trying to protect her daughter, tot mom, some court watchers saying to the point of changing her testimony. But as Cindy steps down from that witness stand, she mouths a silent message to tot mom. Tot mom, cold and calculated turns away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recall giving a deposition in this case, ma`am?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.

There`s something wrong! I found my daughter`s car today...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it fair to say your daughter`s lied to you about many things?

CINDY ANTHONY: She is not a murderer.

It`s fair to say the sheriff`s department lied to me about many things.

And it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Casey ever take money from you by using your credit cards without your permission?

CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl!

It`s not relevant to this case.

CASEY ANTHONY: I love you.

Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The smell in the car, was that a smell that you recognized?

CINDY ANTHONY: She is not a murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you placed under oath at that time?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.

Favorite doll was in the car seat, like, it was sitting where Caylee would have sat.

Are we going to be able to find her, do you think?

CASEY ANTHONY: I hope we can, Mom.

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.

CINDY ANTHONY: What?

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half- truths, but she is not a murderer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee. Caylee`s body, her remains skeletonized to a large degree, just 15 houses from the Anthony home, thrown just 20 feet off the side of the road in a makeshift pet cemetery.

We`re taking your calls live. To Jean Casarez. Jean, you`ve been in court the entire time. I thought I had seen it all when I saw Cindy the first time she testified, just bent over double on the witness stand. I don`t know how much more I can take of seeing Cindy just in so much pain and the sharp contrast of her with her head down, crying, hardly able to speak, and tot mom sitting there, frankly -- everybody, cover your ears -- looking pissed, just looking bored out of her skull, irritated, shooting daggers at her mother.

And then after all this -- and I`ll tell you why Cindy was saying, I don`t remember this -- her testimony was varying a little bit from her deposition. She had to be refreshed. Her recollection had to be refreshed. She to this day is trying to protect her daughter. She comes down off the witness stand and looks at her, Jean, looks at her and mouths a silent message to tot mom, I love you. Tot mom looks away. How much more does she have to take, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Nancy, here`s what`s so ironic. She took the stand as a witness. She identified, Nancy, things found with the remains to their home, to their garage, to Caylee`s bedroom. As a prosecution witness, she tied it up for them. And then she left the stand and she paused, and we see the camera picks it up, what she mouthed to her daughter.

GRACE: Tell me what tot mom did when she mouthed, I love you, to her.

CASAREZ: Turned away, didn`t respond. Turned away.

CASAREZ: OK, unleash the lawyers. Bill Sheaffer, former prosecutor, WFTV legal analyst, in court from the get-go, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta, Darryl Cohen, renowned defense attorney, Atlanta, former attorney for fiance Jesse Grund.

OK, Sheaffer, Cindy Anthony is no idiot. She`s a highly regarded nurse. She is supervising a whole lot of people. She`s held this family together. She`s taken a lot of fire because she was so defensive at the beginning of tot mom and her efforts also to find Caylee. You know that she remembered all those facts. She was trying in her own way, I think, to help tot mom today. How many times did they have to refresh her recollection? Many times.

And Cindy Anthony is probably smarter than all of us lawyers put together. She remembers her testimony. She`s still trying to help tot mom. She loves her so much.

BILL SHEAFFER, LEGAL ANALYST, WFTV: She is trying to help her. And Nancy, here`s the bombshell. Casey`s going to be convicted of first degree murder. Cindy and George are going to plead for her life. Cindy will break down when she did on the stand in her direct testimony. It`s going to be 7 to 5 to give her life.

GRACE: Well, if anybody can make this jury not give her the death penalty, it`s going to be George and Cindy Anthony, I can tell you that right now.

To you, Raymond Giudice. You know, you think that tot mom, when your mother comes to court and mouths to you right in front of the jury -- tot mom turns away. You know, there`s words for people like her. I`m not going to use them. But there`s words for that. Have you ever seen -- I mean, usually you look back and the only person supporting the defendant is their mother.

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean, defense lawyers usually have the parents -- at least at the end of the trial, we`ve still got the mom and the grandmom sitting behind us on our side of the courtroom.

But I do say -- think that even though she had to be refreshed her recollection today, she narrowed the universe of people who had access to the body when it was buried because of the tie-in with the household goods, the blanket, the duct tape, et cetera, and the items found at the scene where the body was discovered.

GRACE: She did.

GIUDICE: She narrowed it down to just the Anthony family members.

GRACE: Well, you`re right, Raymond. And that is so integral here because a lot of these items were taken out of the bedroom.

GIUDICE: Right.

GRACE: I mean, why would George, in this wacky defense theory as part of a cover-up, take all these items with him to dispose of a body if they`re going to try to set it up like a cold-blooded murder with the duct tape.

To you, Darryl Cohen. When she came down off the witness stand, the - - everybody saw this happen. The jury had to see it. She mouths, I love you, to tot mom. Tot mom turns away like a little brat. Then she goes to the back of the courtroom, George Anthony there waiting for her, and they embrace. I mean, this could not have been lost on the jury.

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`s one of the most continuing unbelievable things I have ever seen in a trial. First of all, if there was any emotion at all -- at all -- in Casey, it should have come out. Her lawyer should have said to her, Your mom is going to testify, give some emotion, give some love, give something that says that you have some feelings left in your body -- because this woman is likely to be convicted. She`s likely to get the death penalty. And the only thing that she can now do to stop that is to convey some emotion, some love, I`m sorry, even if she can`t vocalize it.

GRACE: To Diane Dimond, special correspondent with "Newsweek" and the DailyBeast. Diane, I`m showing the viewers what happened. Let`s see it again, Liz, when Cindy Anthony says, I love you from the witness -- that`s not it. That`s George. Show me Cindy. And -- OK wait. Watch this. She goes, I love you.

OK, Diane, we see her kind of raise her eyebrows and look away like -- is that in direct response to her mother saying, I love you?

DIANE DIMOND, "NEWSWEEK"/DAILYBEAST: Well, it sure looks like it. And you notice that when Cindy says, I love you, she puts her head down right away. Cindy says it and looks down, and Casey looks away. You know, there`s nothing stronger than a mother`s love. You know that now, Nancy, being a mother yourself.

But I`m going to disagree with some of your other panelists. I`m not sure that they are going to get up and plead for her life if and when she`s found guilty. I think things -- when you`re in that courtroom and you`re watching Cindy and George testify, things are dawning on them. They`re watching this case just the way we are, and the puzzle pieces are coming together and lightbulbs are going off.

And I -- I think the "I love you" today was, I love you, but I just had to tell the truth up there. And Cindy did that. She brought all the pieces together at the end of this case for the prosecution.

GRACE: You know, we`ll see, Diane, but from what I can see of Cindy and George Anthony, they`re going to go down...

DIMOND: Well, maybe.

GRACE: ... trying to save tot mom`s life, no matter what.

Everybody, we are live, our entire team has been in that courtroom today to bring you the latest, Cindy Anthony back on the stand. And today, a new defense angle revealed in court, the defense trying to claim that someone dressed Caylee`s dead body in the wrong size clothes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no child that should have duct tape on its face when it dies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The purpose of the demonstration is to illustrate that it is possible that the tape would cover both the child`s nose and the mouth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.

CINDY ANTHONY: I had a pretty good hunch that night.

I have someone here that I need to be arrested.

I have a pretty good hunch now.

My daughter.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom!

CINDY ANTHONY: What?

CASEY ANTHONY: No!

CINDY ANTHONY: I never had control of Casey.

CASEY ANTHONY: I told my mom to go home and not to come here.

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not sure at what point -- I wasn`t sure what they were interested in. I don`t remember talking about -- I don`t remember them asking me.

That`s a misstatement.

I don`t remember, but if it`s in my deposition, I must have (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you dispute that that`s what you said?

CINDY ANTHONY: Not if it`s been recorded by the court reporter, no.

I was not satisfied with her answers.

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t have any answers!

CINDY ANTHONY: We need to have something to go on.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t have anything!

(INAUDIBLE) talk to my mother, and it -- it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest at the end of the courthouse day in the case of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee. Tot mom`s mother, Cindy Anthony, pictured here, back on the witness stand today for a grueling direct and cross-exam at the end, mouthing to her daughter, tot mom, I love you. Tot mom, looking bored and irritated, just looked away.

We are taking your calls. Out to Kim in North Carolina. Hi, Kim, what`s your question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for all the work you do.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re welcome. What do you think about Casey taking the stand? I say that`s the only way it`s going to happen for any kind of defense for her.

GRACE: Well, Kim in North Carolina, here`s the wisdom. For years and years and years when I prosecuted, I`d make a file before I struck the jury, defendant`s cross-exam, and lay it on my counsel table and I`d let the defense walk by it every day of the trial to let them know I was ready, willing and able to slice their client up like a Thanksgiving turkey and that I wanted to do it! I was licking my chops to do it! And that is exactly how the state is here. If she takes the stand, she will be devastated on cross-exam.

But to you, Bill Sheaffer. Can they prove any of those wacky theories they said in opening statement, they promised to deliver in opening statement without her? Nobody else can testify to that but her, or it would be hearsay.

SHEAFFER: They`re going to attempt to try to prove it. They`re going to call Roy Kronk. They`re going to call other witnesses to try to prove it. But the bottom line is, you`re absolutely right. It has to be Casey that would sell them.

But you`re absolutely right about this. She`s not taking the witness stand. She has six prior felony convictions in the opening (ph). She`s already told and the evidence already says she was raised to lie, they won`t listen to a thing she has to say. She`s not testifying.

GRACE: What about it, Darryl? Agree with Sheaffer?

COHEN: Absolutely. That woman cannot testify. She hadn`t told the truth yet. When is she going to tell the truth? Casey, are you telling the truth now, later, before? Never going to happen.

GRACE: What about it, Giudice?

GIUDICE: She will not testify in the case in chief. She may testify in the mitigation death penalty stage.

GRACE: You know what, guys? I know we`re all talking legal wisdom, but since when does Baez bow his head to legal wisdom? I think Kim in North Carolina has a point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only one using that one roll of duct tape was George.

CINDY ANTHONY: Well, I would be using it, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The answer you gave in the deposition was that the only person using that one roll of duct tape was George Anthony, correct?

CINDY ANTHONY: Probably. Again, it`s the context of the questioning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re answering a question I`m not asking.

CINDY ANTHONY: But you did ask the question.

My granddaughter has been taken! She has been missing for a month!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you recognize the shirt that Caylee is wearing?

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t ever remember seeing that shirt.

We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl!

I recognize Caylee`s sign (ph).

My daughter finally admitted that the baby-sitter stole her!

Asked me if I thought was her to the point I`m...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t say that. I didn`t say that.

CINDY ANTHONY: OK, wait a minute. You...

And it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.

And today, a defense angle revealed in court. Is the defense trying to claim that the killer didn`t understand what size clothes Caylee wore and therefore took clothes and dressed her post-mortem, after death, in an outfit that no longer fits her? What`s the theory, Ellie Jostad?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Those shorts that you see Caylee wearing -- they`re pink shorts, pink striped shorts. They`re from a Target. They`re size 24 months. Now, Cindy Anthony was asked on cross today what size Caylee was wearing when she went missing. She says she wore a size 3T. And she didn`t think that she could still fit into those shorts.

GRACE: So what`s the point? Are they trying to say, Natisha, that someone who didn`t know Caylee dressed her in shorts that were too tight, as if some cold-blooded killer post-mortem would worry about that?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, that`s exactly what they`re trying to say. They`re trying to say that whoever placed those shorts on Caylee wasn`t familiar with the size that she was currently wearing, which was a 3T, according to Cindy Anthony.

GRACE: What do you make of it, Diane Dimond?

DIMOND: You know, I`ve watched Baez for a long time throw a lot of spaghetti against the wall. This one I just did not quite understand. The shorts were too tight. What does that prove? This is a young woman, Casey Anthony, who has a veritable closet in her car trunk every day. I didn`t buy it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you describe her demeanor? How was she acting?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Normal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey gets a tattoo on her shoulder that reads "buena vita," (SIC) good life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn`t seem upset about anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she seem happy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I guess, pretty happy, for the most part.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Casey, I hope you`re able to hear me.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Hold on. Can you turn the volume down?

CINDY ANTHONY: This little child right here, she is the victim in all of this.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, please stop it. I need to be looked at as a victim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We must follow up on all evidence that is presented to us.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: There`s a lie in everything else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she ever tell you that her daughter was missing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: She said she was with her nanny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was an area of interest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In that circle, in that area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In that area right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: C-H-L-O-R-O-F-O-R-M. Chloroform.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have never seen chloroform in that level.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hair that exhibited characteristics of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body was very decomposed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s the skull.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three pieces of duct tape.

CINDY ANTHONY: The smell of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Decomposition.

CINDY ANTHONY: We forgive anything you`ve said or done.

CASEY ANTHONY: OK.

CINDY ANTHONY: You`ve given me the greatest gift that I have ever received and that is for Caylee Marie.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Welcome back. We are live at the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony on trial for the death, the murder of her 2-year-old girl Caylee.

Today, stunning testimony from the stand, not only did grandmother Cindy have to retake the stand, mouthing the words to tot mom, tot mom looking bored and irritated, just turned away, but then we found out in the days, the weeks after Caylee goes missing, tot mom goes to get her a "beautiful life" tattoo and while she`s there, yes, I know my child is missing, but hey, let`s have a pizza party.

What happened, Jean Casarez?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, it was -- we believe the final witness for the prosecution, he took the stand, the tattoo artist Casey had called a couple of days before specifically said what she wanted, she wanted a feminine script, she paid $65 cash and then she bought pizza for everybody.

GRACE: OK. CW Jensen, you`re a retired police captain. If I hear the defense whining one more time, it`s just circumstantial -- every case is circumstantial. Practically every case you try you`ve got circumstantial evidence.

Circumstantial evidence under the law is as powerful as direct evidence, such as an eyewitness, all right? That`s what the law says. And the judge is going to read that law, that jury charge to the jury.

What do you make of here`s a mom, her child is missing or, in her own words, her child has just drowned in a pool and she put her father up to hiding the body to make it look like murder? She goes to a tattoo parlor, gets a tattoo, sits there for however long it takes to get that massive tattoo on her back about the good life, then springs for pizza, and they have a little pizza party. There at the tattoo parlor.

CW JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: This case is just very, very strange. And circumstantial evidence means look at all these circumstances, and I think for most of your viewers, and probably the jury to some degree, we give them so much evidence in these trials and it is day after day after day after day, and they`re trying to keep things all together.

What will happen at the end? I think will help everybody is that the prosecutor is going to get up there and say, what would you do if your child went missing? Would you go get tattoos? Would you not report it? Would you -- have you searched for chloroform on your computer before? Have you lied? Have you done all these things?

And I think when they wrap it up at the end --

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. CW, I got to tell you something, plenty of years ago I read a non-fiction book called "Injection" and it was about the justice system. And I had to do a ton of research about blood money, people making money off murder.

And I was going to all these sites about murderabilia and autopsy photos for sale and gruesome Web sites about death where people made money off murder. I thought, you know, if anybody ever looks at this computer, they`re going to think, I`m some kind of ghoul, and one day I got so sick just doing the research, I just shut the computer down. I couldn`t touch the computer for I don`t know how long.

People normally don`t look up how do you break somebody`s neck, how do you make homemade chloroform. You`re right, CW.

JENSEN: Right. Yes. And I think that your viewers, as they sit there tonight and as they`ve listened to this after day after day after day, they say if this happened to me, if this happened to my sister, if this happened to my family, this never would have happened.

GRACE: To Leslie Seppinni clinical psychologist, what do you make of the tattoo and the pizza party?

Her daughter is either been dead for just a few days and she put her father up to planting a murder scene, and knowing her daughter`s body is being gnawed on by animals, 15 houses from her bedroom where she sleeps, and she`s out having a pizza party?

LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: She`s out having a pizza party. But I think it`s directly in line with the fact that she doesn`t want responsibility. She`s gotten rid of her daughter. There is a celebration by the type of tattoo that she got and what it said, "beautiful life."

I think she felt a great deal of relief that she no longer had the responsibility of this child. And very immaturely celebrated.

GRACE: Bill Sheaffer, Raymond Giudice, Darryl Cohen.

First to you, Sheaffer, you know what they`re going to say in defense if they can get somebody to say it. If she doesn`t take the stand who`s going to say it? That this was a tribute to Caylee`s life, the good life, the beautiful life.

What about it, Sheaffer?

BILL SHEAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely not. No juror is going to believe that. What they`re going to believe is that it was a beautiful life all right, unfortunately for little Caylee she wasn`t a part of it. And it only became a beautiful life once she was dead.

GRACE: Giudice?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, your question is what is the defense going to do? And I think the defense will have to do that. They`re obligated to put something up. Bill has a conclusion as to what the jury may think. But the defense has got to do something. They`ve got to try to keep this girl out of the electric chair.

GRACE: Darryl?

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, my view is the defense has to do something, as Ray says. But on the other hand -

GRACE: You know all - you know, the two of you -- at least Sheaffer didn`t say this, the defense has to do something. Yes, we know that. You`re the expert. Tell me what.

COHEN: What they need to do is not put up any evidence, but to try to deflect it on closing argument and try to show that she`s not as bad a person as every single stitch of this circumstantial evidence and her body language and her facial expression show.

They have got to show that this woman has some sort of feelings. It`s the only way that`s going to keep her alive.

GRACE: Well, FYI, there are six jurors with children, three jurors with grandchildren. I don`t know if anybody on this panel has grandchildren yet, but apparently grandparents love the grandchildren more than they love their own children. So that`s what`s on the jury, too.

To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, Burlington County, DNA consultant, you`re joining us out of Philly tonight.

Dr. Manion, it`s great to have you with us.

DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: My pleasure.

GRACE: Another point that took center stage today was about the hair. We went back to the hair with the death band on it, in the trunk, had a mitochondrial DNA expert on the stand.

This hair had no nucleus, no root, so you couldn`t get full blown nuclear DNA. You could narrow it down to a female member of the family. And they all basically said none of them had hair nine inches long. Most of them had their hair treated. You know frosted, highlighted, not Caylee. This had to be Caylee`s hair.

Explain in a nutshell if you can what is mitochondrial DNA.

MANION: Well, all cells have mitochondria. And at fertilization, we have an egg being fertilized by a sperm --

GRACE: OK. You`ve already lost me. All cells have mitochondria. What`s that?

MANION: Mitochondria are the powerhouses of the cell. They`re a small organells that generate ATP that give this cell the energy molecules for all our processes.

GRACE: OK. Doctor, Doctor -- put them up, please.

Doctor, I am very familiar with your resume and all your smarts, but you got to dummy-down for me. Explain in baby terms, for me, the trial lawyer. I`m a lawyer, not a Ph.D. Not a doctor like you. Try to explain it a little more elementary terms.

MANION: OK, well, all epithelial cells, for instance, the hair has an epithelial root around it.

GRACE: Yes.

MANION: And the hair itself is made of protein, it`s not made of cells. It`s just made of protein. As the hair grows, some cells that generate and the debris gets carried into the hair shaft itself.

GRACE: Yes?

MANION: So the hair shaft is made of protein and this debris from the cells which contain mitochondria. So therefore you can just take the hair itself and find mitochondria and analyze the mitochondrial DNA which is unique in the sense that it always comes from the mother. Always comes from the mother.

Epithelial cells on the other hand have both the father`s DNA and the mother`s DNA. We have a mixture of chromosomes.

GRACE: So we know they can absolutely say this nine-inch hair was either tot mom`s, Caylee, Cindy the grandmother, or Cindy`s mother, right?

MANION: Correct. Correct. Or Lee, the son. He has his mom`s mitochondrial DNA.

GRACE: It`s nine inches long. Nine inches long. That couldn`t have been Lee`s hair. And according to Cindy Anthony, it wasn`t hers. It wasn`t tot mom`s. And the grandmother had never ever been in the car. That leaves one person. And one person with the death band around their hair. That would be Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I can feel it. It`s coming. It`s getting closer.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Psychics have called in tips such as this one which shows a small child enclosed in a plastic bag.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not here certainly to make anybody believe in psychics and our team has more than just that to offer as we do go out and search.

CASEY ANTHONY: I know in my heart she`s not far.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: From day one, you were building the case against Casey as a murder.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators say in documents that Cindy Anthony told them a Winnie the Pooh blanket was missing from Caylee`s bed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When did you notice that the blanket was missing?

CINDY ANTHONY: I hadn`t seen it since the end of May. We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl.

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: When the police arrived at your home, it was a difficult time for you.

CINDY ANTHONY: Something`s wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

BAEZ: When you came back home, your house was a mess.

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. They can take our whole house down, they can level it, they can dig a big hole, I don`t care what they want. Caylee is not there.

BAEZ: Taken to the back area.

G. ANTHONY: Shut up. I`m talking. If you don`t want to be knocked down, get out of my way.

BAEZ: Do you recall giving a deposition in this case, ma`am?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. I believe my daughter. She has been a victim as much as Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY: I need to be looked as a victim, not just as much a victim as the rest of you.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And is a psychic coming in to court? What about it, Jean Casarez?

CASAREZ: Well, that`s a new one on me. What I`ve heard is that they want to bring in a nurse who has a PhD who devotes her life to grief counseling and how parents grieve when they lost their children.

GRACE: You know, that`s going to be a real legal conundrum for the judge because this grief counselor that they want to bring in the defense has not treated tot mom to our knowledge.

So would that be allowed, Bill Sheaffer?

SHEAFFER: No, the judge is going to find that she is not an expert in her field, but more importantly -- I misstated that. What the judge is going to find is that her evidence is not going to be relevant because she`s never talked to tot mom.

GRACE: Mm-hmm. Now, Diane Dimond, we heard -- it was just one question on cross exam. We heard Jose Baez point it a picture and go, is that a paver, a paver? It is a -- show me a crime scene photo, Liz. It is a marker like edging the side of the road where Caylee was found and remember a psychic said that she saw in her mind these stones, these pavers, and she actually went -- had someone go there and then amazingly a member of the Anthony PI -- private investigative -- team went to the site where Caylee was found before her body was found by police.

Can I, Liz, see the crime scene? That`s the courtroom, Liz. Want to see the crime -- there you go. Stones, those are the pavers. Thank you, Liz.

Now, do you -- and also isn`t this psychic on the defense witness list?

DIANE DIMOND, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, NEWSWEEK, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, I happen to have been in touch with a psychic, not the one that talked about the pavers, who says that she has been subpoenaed, I promised not to mention her name, but I`ll tell you later.

GRACE: She`s on the witness list. It`s not a secret --

(CROSSTALK)

DIMOND: Well, there`s more than one. There`s more than one, though, my dear.

GRACE: Gail St. John. Don`t confirm or deny. But we`ve got --

(CROSSTALK)

DIMOND: Yes. I know of at least one psychic that`s on the way.

GRACE: Yes.

DIMOND: And you know what else I think? You just showed those pictures of George Anthony getting really mad at the protesters outside his house and the media that was dogging them.

He -- Jose Baez did not drop this bomb about the sexual molestation in the opening statement to just let it go. I predict that he is really going to take off after George. Also on the witness list, Nancy, are some of the protesters from outside the house. They`re going to come in and say what a vicious, vicious, horrible attacking man George Anthony is.

GRACE: Diane. Diane.

DIMOND: You watch. Yes.

GRACE: Do you know that after Caylee went missing -- this is what some of my sources told me down in Florida -- George and Cindy were coming home one day from church.

DIMOND: Right.

GRACE: The people would not even let them in their own driveway. George got out of the car and somebody spit on him. Spit on him. This is when he was in the midst of trying to find Caylee and he gets a big glob of spit on him.

You know what, when the jury hears all that, if they try to attack George Anthony, and George Anthony defends himself and they find out what he has been through during all this, what frankly tot mom apparently has put him through.

DIMOND: Yes. Well, they see it on his face.

GRACE: They`re going to cheer him. The jury is going to put him up on their shoulders and run out like they`re making a touchdown. OK? If they have to hear what all that man has been through. And, also --

DIMOND: I`m not sure about that. But I know what you`re saying.

GRACE: Well, I`ve got it right here, a transcript we weren`t supposed to get our mitts on of another side bar where the judge basically calls the defense a liar. The court says, the judge, then you lied to me. Mason, no. Yes, the hell you did. He let them have it. Why? Why, Diane?

DIMOND: This came during a side bar, but we just come into possession of this transcript. Apparently Cheney Mason, the defense lawyer, was mad at the judge because the judge told the jury yesterday, you know, you may get this case sooner than you think. You might be in deliberation by the 25th of this month because they`ve got -- the defense is going to put on some witnesses and Cheney Mason was mad.

He said, you know, your honor, we don`t have to put on any witnesses, who said we`re going to put on any witnesses? He said, Baez told me that.

GRACE: You. You the defense did.

DIMOND: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: So he`s basically saying the judge was commenting on the defense`s right to remain silent by suggesting they would put on a case and speak.

Out to the lines, Jennifer in Colorado, hi, Jennifer, what`s your question?

JENNIFER, CALLER FROM COLORADO: Nancy, thank you for taking my call. I`m just --

GRACE: Thank you for calling in.

JENNIFER: I have a quick comment and one quick question.

GRACE: OK.

JENNIFER: My question is, from the very beginning Casey did not want this baby. And she wanted to give it to a friend. I was wondering as a prosecutor that you were, why they don`t bring -- why they didn`t bring this girl in and get information from her? And then it was said she wanted to give her up for adoption and (INAUDIBLE) thought about it.

And then my comment is, I know Cindy is a mom, but I really don`t believe everything she says when she was on the witness stand. She said that her daughter never gave her any time to think she was lying to her. I really don`t believe that. That she means that.

GRACE: Well, you know, I think, in her defense, that everyone is -- she`s in such a hard spot right now. And when -- if you had seen her break down in person like I did, you know, I think you would cut her some slack.

But as far as back to the time when had she didn`t want the baby, Darryl, do you think that may have been kept out because it was too old evidence?

COHEN: Nancy, I agree. There`s no reason to bring it in. They`ve got the case. They`ve got her. Boom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First one piece.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three pieces of duct tape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then two.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Duct tape over her mouth and jaw.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then three.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Duct tape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very big red flag for homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The source of the decomposing fluids could not have been in the trunk very long because of the heat.

G. ANTHONY: That smell took my breath away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Duct tape anywhere attached to that child`s face is, to me, indication of a homicide.

CASEY ANTHONY: All you have is speculation.

GRACE: Has it worked for you? I know every psychic is -- says they`re different, but you how does it work for you?

GAIL ST. JOHN, SELF PROCLAIMED PSYCHIC: Well, for me it`s a lot of different ways. I`ve actually been driving down the street and kind of had my entire view blocked and pictures came in just as if we were watching a television. I had to pull over. And then other times it`s been more subtle than that. So --

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And will a psychic testify for the defense?

Very quickly, Roxanne, Colorado, I`ve got 30 seconds. What`s your question?

ROXANNE, CALLER FROM COLORADO: I wanted to know if Amy Huizenga, when she came back from the airport, didn`t it she confront Casey --

GRACE: Tot mom?

ROXANNE: Yes. Tot mom. About duct tape in her car?

GRACE: Good question. What about it, Ellie Jostad? I believe she`s right.

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, I remember Amy Huizenga talking about a gas can and -- borrowing a gas can, but I don`t remember Amy talking about duct tape.

GRACE: I recall something about tape. We`ll look it up, we`ll have the answer tomorrow.

Let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Matthew Wallace, 22, Lexington Park, Maryland. Lost his life after being injured in Iraq. His family by his side in a Germany -- German hospital when he passed away.

Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Achievement. Loved music, guitars, playing in garage bands. Leaves behind parents Mary and Keith. Sisters Jessica, Micah, Abigail, serving the Navy.

Matthew Wallace, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you.

And a special good night from Steve from Wells Fargo. Now he`s (INAUDIBLE). This is past bankers` hours.

Everyone, lung cancer, number one cancer killer in the world. Claiming more lives than breast, colon, prostate, melanoma and kidney combined.

Divas with a Cause supports the Joan Gaeta Lung Cancer Fund. June 19th, vocalist Gwen Hughes at Buckhead Theater, Atlanta.

Go to Divaswithacause.com or call 678-653-3061 to help fight cancer.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, and we will be camped outside the Orlando courthouse in our own way seeking justice for Caylee.

See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END