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Human Rights; Debt and Deadlock

Aired June 27, 2011 - 14:00:00   ET


RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, human rights and government wrongs. In this hour the Trafficking In Persons Report will name and shame.

Debts and deadlines, France tells Greece it is a bank rollover.

And debt and deadlock, Obama must broker a deal of his own-and, fast.

It is a new week. I'm Richard Quest. I mean business.

Good evening to you. In a short while we will be in Washington as the U.S. State Department is about to release the 2011 Trafficking in Persons Report. In the next few moments we'll be hearing live from the U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton about the global efforts to track down on the trafficking of human being for financial gain.

Now, we are taking a close interest, a very close interest, in the State Department's report as part of CNN's "Freedom Project", the year-long initiative of this network. Of which we are proud to shine the light on the horrors of modern-day slavery in all its forms, and give its victims a global voice.

On QUEST MEANS BUSINESS we have been paying special attention to the subject. We have looked at supply chains and how corporations can help, or they can hinder. And what they are doing to play their role in dealing with human trafficking and slavery. The report itself was released just a few moments ago and it will take us a while, but we will look at some of the early results from it. It is the 11th report since the U.S. State Department began publishing it in 2001.

Not the significance is, it is the main U.S. tool to engage foreign governments on human trafficking and, in fact, it is pretty much the barometer report. The State Department says it is the world's most comprehensive source of information on government anti-trafficking efforts. The TIP Report, as it is called, groups countries into four tiers.

Tier one, I can tell you, those countries that are fully compliant with the minimum standards of trafficking and victims' protection. So, for example, laws, penalties, prosecutions, identifications, health care, protections, legal help, repatriation, and even things to prevent forced labor, which leads to trafficking.


Tier two, those are the countries that don't meet all the standards yet, but are making significant efforts to comply. Tier two, watch this, these are the countries where anti-trafficking efforts aren't increasing or trafficking is getting significantly worse. And then the name and shame, tier three, the countries that don't comply with minimum standards and are making no significant effort to do so.

While we wait to go to Washington and bring you the secretary of State, let me show you exactly where we stand. If I have set this up, first of all, this is the world. And this is the global picture of this year's report. We start with the areas of the country that are fully compliant with the tier one levels. As you might expect, large numbers of countries are in Europe, but interestingly, in Europe-not all countries. In Europe, you do have a few countries, you have Switzerland, Iceland, Greece and some other countries of Eastern Europe, Hungary and the Czech Republic, for instance that are not in tier one. They are in tier two.

If you look at tier two, globally, well, not surprisingly. A large percentage of those countries are down in Central and Latin America. If you go to the Americas, you can see a large number, almost no countries in tier one, down in the southern part of that hemisphere.

Back to tier, on the watch list, these are the countries, the Russias, the Chinas, these are on the watch list; very large swathes of countries that are giving concern. Tier three, perhaps not surprisingly, the countries that are in tier three, that are making no real significant effort, in fact, no effort at all in many cases, are down in Africa, where you have Algeria, the Central African Congo, Republic of Congo. It does have over on the America's side, you have Cuba and Venezuela, both of which are roundly condemned in the report.

Put all of this together-oh, and a couple of countries obviously out in Asia, Papua New Guinea and Burma and the like.

Now, put all of this together and you see a good example of the significance here. There you have your tier ones, tier twos, watch list, tier three, and put it all together and that is what it looks like.

Let us go to Washington, Jill Dougherty joins us now from Washington, at the State Department.

Jill, I've given an overview of the report, but who is up, who is down, who is in, who is out?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are a lot of countries, if you look at, you mentioned some of them, who fall into that category. There are 32 countries in tier one. Those are the countries that are doing well on this. There are 23 countries in tier three. And that is actually more than there were last year, unfortunately, 23 this year, and 13 last year. And you also have other countries. Let's look at some of the tier three, which would be very worrying. Democratic Republic of Congo, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, among them. And I think-OK, we're going to listen in.


LUIS CdeBACA, U.S. AMB. AT LARGE, , OFC. OF MONITOR & COMBAT, TIP: A- snapshot, it is a diagnosis. But we're not just looking at a government report. We are looking at a history book, one that starts much longer than 11 years ago. Yesterday, "The New York Times" reprinted a story from June 27, 1861, about escaped slaves seen walking openly, in the daylight, in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. It seems that less than three months into the Civil War, the Underground Railroad was emerging, if not into broad daylight, the article read, at least into the pale summer dusk. The three men trudged along with their heavy bundles, unmolested by the slave catchers.

For that era, truly newsworthy; legally emancipation wouldn't come for another 18 months. But on their walk to freedom they made their own dream come true. Today, 150 years later, to the day, we deliver just a little bit more on the promise of freedom that motivated those men to walk north. The promise articulated by the Emancipation Proclamation, and the 13th Amendment, written in blood and tears, enshrined in our values and in such symbols as the Lincoln Memorial and the Statue of Liberty.

As I look this report, which calls for a "Decade of Delivery", I can't help but think how far we have come in this modern chapter of our abolitionist fight. But it also makes me think of the people. I think of a 16-year-old boy, begging for change on a New York City subway.

Jose wasn't begging because he was trying to get something to eat, he was begging because he was a slave and the price for not meeting his quota was a beating or a chaining, or the stun gun. Exploited, isolated, he couldn't cry out for help. He couldn't even know if someone else on the subway platform was offering to help him, because he was deaf and far from home. He didn't even speak American sign language. He didn't even know what to do, or what would happen to him. And like most trafficking victims, whether male, female, young or old, the last thing he wanted was for anyone to know how scared he was. When I met him I was a young prosecutor. And like Jose, the last thing I wanted anyone to know was how scared I was.

I didn't know how to take care of 56 deaf Mexicans. I didn't know where they would sleep or how we'd feed them. I didn't know how to get them the services they needed, or even how to talk to them. Frankly, I didn't know whether or not justice would prevail. Because at that time we didn't have a 3P paradigm, we didn't have a comprehensive law.

We had a set of old laws, good people, and a shared conviction that slavery was as worth fighting then as it was in 1861. Mayors, judges, motel owners, subway riders, immigration and FBI agents, and NGO social workers, an entire city that had missed the slavery right underneath their noses, every day for two years, came together to try to make it right. Together, by hook and by crook, we got housing and schooling, language training, immigration services, for Jose and his friends. And we got prison for his traffickers.

The traffickers lured their victims to the United States by going to deaf schools in Mexico with photographs of a better life. Photographs of landmarks like the Statue of Liberty. Think about it. They used our very own symbols of freedom to lure their victims into servitude. But freedom, when given a chance, whether it is a walk north 150 years ago, or now, can prevail. Somehow after months of secretly and painstakingly writing a note Jose and his friends made it out, got that note to a police station and made their dream come true. Like those men in Harrisburg, they made their walk. It was up to us then to honor their bravery through our response.

In that case, and other cases in the 1990s we reacted as best we could. We cobbled together a victims centered approach of good will and common values and a lot of hard work to vindicate this critical civil right. And yet we knew that America owed victims of modern slavery much better than an ad hoc modern underground railroad. Luckily for us, so did the White House. Coming out of Beijing and through the president's Inter- Agency Council on Women, a bi-partisan consensus and an international paradigm emerged. The famous Ps, prevention, prosecution, protection and now partnerships, as Secretary Clinton said last year, a fundamental governmental responsibility to act.

A lot has changed in the last decade. The fight against trafficking has become a social and a cultural imperative. If you go to the Underground Railroad Freedom Center today, you'll see an exhibit on modern slavery and how it affects you. Because they realize that he walk to freedom didn't end 150 years ago. It is a journey that someone is having to take every day. And just like the editor of that Harrisburg newspaper, the folks at CNN know that this fight is newsworthy having aired dozens of stories in the last few months through their innovative, "Freedom Project". The fight has changed governments with almost 150 signatories to the U.N. protocol, and over 130 countries with comprehensive laws. At the United Nations with goodwill ambassadors like Mira Sorvino, who joins us today, and others, the work is happening in a multi-lateral fashion.

And in New York, things have changed as well. Most of the deaf Mexicans choose to stay in the United States and have good jobs. There is now not just federal laws in New York, but a cutting edge state statute and local task forces and victims protections.

And that scared boy, Jose, is now grown up. Last year he was named employee of the year by the folks that he works for, as a janitor. His responsibility every day is to take the ferry across, put on his uniform and clean the Statue of Liberty.


We know that around the world that there are still tired, huddled masses yearning to breath free, to take that walk; 27 million of them. That is the story of this report. The rankings are critically important. But it is the truths in these country narratives that drive us to action. To seize the opportunity of the moment, to finally make good on the promises do dearly won. Just like the walk north to freedom, so many years ago took leaders and guides, fighting modern slavery does not happen by accident.

It, too, takes leaders. Like Richard Holbrooke, to whom this year's report is dedicated. Who always reminded us of the fact, reflected on page 3 of the report, that, "Slaves are first and foremost people, people just like us." Leaders like a first lady who have united a global understanding that this scourge still persists in the modern era, that safe survivor deserves recovery and rehabilitation. And that every trafficker deserves free room and board, courtesy of the government, for a very long time.


Leaders like a senator from New York, who supported this cause through the last decade of development and now as secretary of State leads us into the "Decade of Delivery". A promise fulfilled, so that statue in the harbor, a beacon of freedom for Jose, and so many others, stands not just for what we aspire to be, but who we actually are. It is my honor to introduce that leader, our own Lady Liberty, the secretary of State.


HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you all and good afternoon and welcome to the State Department. It is truly wonderful to see the Ben Franklin Room packed, as it is today. I especially want to welcome all the ambassadors who are here. I know many of you and I'm delighted that you could join us for this important event.

I want to thank Undersecretary Maria Otero for her leadership on this, and so many of the global, transnational, cross cutting issues that she is responsible for. And I think you certainly got a small taste of the passion and conviction that Ambassador Luis CdeBaca brings to this work. He is tireless. And he, with his wonderful team, are working around the clock and around the world to heal wounds and to save lives. And I am very grateful to Luis for his leadership and deep, deep commitment.

And because human trafficking, unfortunately, hurts women and girls disproportionately Luis has worked closely for over a decade with Melanne Verveer, our ambassador at large for global women's issues. This is a natural partnership because trafficking isn't just a problem of human bondage, it fuels the epidemic of gender-based violence in so many places, here in our country and around the world. So I thank our team at the State Department that has done so much to continue this work. And to make sure that we not only issue a report, which as Luis said, is just one part of work. The report itself is a tool and what we are most interested in is working with countries around the world and working across our own government to get results. The "Decade of Delivery" is upon us. And I know it is not just our State Department, and not just our Congress, but many of you in this room, many of you from other governments, who have taken on this issues; many of you from the NGO community that have been on the front lines, standing up for millions of victims.

Last year I visited, in Cambodia, a place of healing and support, a shelter for survivors. I met with dozens of girls, most of them very young, who had been sexually exploited and abused. They had been given refuge at the shelter, and they were learning valuable skills to help them reenter society. These girls wanted the same thing that every child wants, the opportunity to live, to learn, a safe place, people who cared about them.

And not too long ago a shelter like this would not have been available. The idea of trafficking in persons was as old as time and it wasn't particularly high on the list of important international issues. And certainly, speaking for my country, until relatively recently, we were not investing the resources, or raising the visibility of these issues, of these stories, of these young girls.

There were so many attractive children at that shelter, lots of liveliness. There were some very withdrawn and set apart from the others. And there was one little girl who had the biggest grin on her face. And then when I looked into that face, I saw that one of her eyes was badly disfigured. She had glasses on. And I asked one of the women running the shelter, I said, what happened to her. And she said, well, when she was sold into a brothel, she was even younger than she is now. And she, basically, fought back to protect herself against what was expected. So the brothel owner stabbed her in the eye with a large nail.

And there was this child, who spirit did not look as though it had been broken, who was determined to interact with people, but whose life had only been saved by a concerted effort to rescue girls like her from the slavery they were experiencing.

The world began to change a little over 10 years ago, and certainly I'm grateful for the work that my country has done, but I'm also very grateful for the work that so many of our partners have done as well. When my husband signed the Trafficking Victims Protection Act we did have tools, we had tools to bring traffickers to justice, and tools to provide victims with legal services and other support. Today police officers, activists and governments are coordinating their efforts so much more effectively. Thousands of victims have been liberated around the world. And thanks to special temporary visas many of them are able to come to our country to have protection, to testify against their perpetrators.

Every year we come together to release this report, to take stock of our progress, to make suggestions and to refine our methods. Today we are releasing a new report that ranks 184 countries, including our own. One of the innovations, when I became secretary, was we were going to also analyze and rank ourselves. Because I don't think it is fair for us to rank others if we don't look hard at who we are and what we are doing.

This report is the product of a collaborative process that involves ambassadors and embassies, and NGOs, as well as our team here in Washington. And it really does give us a snap shot about what is happening. It shows us where political will and political leadership are making a difference. Take the case of Bangladesh, for example. The minister of home affairs and joint secretary have drafted progressive legislation that promises to confront the traffickers behind thousands of Bangladeshi migrants to the Middle East and North Africa. Or the United Arab Emirates, where leaders are advancing initiatives to improve protections for migrant workers in the Gulf Region. Or the case of Taiwan, where the director of immigration has taken steps to ensure that victims of trafficking are identified, provided immigration relief and work permits and have the opportunity to recovery from their ordeals.

Now these achievements, and so many more, which we highlight in the report, are certainly worthy of the recognition that they are given. But we all have to do more. Unfortunately, because of the ease of transportation and the global communications that can reach deep into villages, with promises and pictures of what a better life might be, we now see that more human beings are exploited than before. There are as many as 27 million men, women, and children. And governments have taken important steps, but we have to really mix the commitments with actions in order to get results. For example, the number of prosecutions, world wide has remained relatively static.

And so the measure of success can no longer be whether a country has past laws, because so many have in the last decade. Now we have to make sure that laws are implemented. And that countries are using the tools that have been created for that. And governments should work more closely with the private sector and use new supply chain monitoring techniques to let consumers know if their goods and services come from slavery free, responsible sources. In partnership with the NGO community, we have to develop new mechanisms for shielding potential victims and bringing more perpetrators to justice.

Now it is only fair that countries know why they have a certain ranking and that we, then, take on the responsibility of working with countries to respond. So we are issuing concrete recommendations and providing technical assistance. This week U.S. diplomats around the world will be meeting with their host country governments to review action plans and provide recommendations when needed. And I am instructing our embassies and the trafficking office to intensify partnerships in the coming months so that every country that wishes to, can improve its standing.

So while this report is encouraging more countries to come to the table. None of us can afford to be satisfied. Just because a so-called developed country has well established rules, laws, and a strong criminal justice system, does not mean that any of us are doing everything we can. Even it these tight economic times, we need to look for creative ways to do better. And this goes for the United States. Because we are shining a light on ourselves and we intend to do more in order to make our own situation better and help those who are interested in doing the same.

Our T-I-P, our TIP heroes, today, show us that individual action can lead to some astounding results. For example, in Singapore, Bridget Lew Tan has dedicated her life to protecting migrant workers. And Singapore, albeit a small country, has more than 800,000 immigrants. And she has been volunteering with a local archdiocese, and while there she met 30 Bangladeshi men assembled behind a coffee shop in the middle of the night. And she helped to set up shelters, one for men, one for women, to provide refuge to migrant workers who had been abused.

Or take Mexico, where Mexico City attorney generals office, Deputy Prosecutor Dilcia Garcia (ph) tried a case in 2009 that resulted in the first trafficking sentence in Mexico. Since then she has developed indictments against more than 100 alleged traffickers, and forged partnerships to provide comprehensive victim protection services.

Stories like these and the others you will hear about our TIP heroes give us hope, because they inspire us, but also, tell us very practically what we can do to make a difference. And the story of all the victims really is one that should motivate all of us. And when we hear the stories of the TIP heroes, we know that it is not hopeless. We know that it is not overwhelming. We know that person, by person, we can make a difference.

I think a lot about that little girl that I met who finally was rescued. I don't know what will happen in her life, in the future, but many of the adult women who were working there, themselves, had been rescued. And now they were passing on to the next generation the support that they themselves had received. And the children that I met with, when I asked them, what do you want to do, when you grow up? They wanted to do what children everywhere want to do. They wanted to be a teacher. They wanted to be mothers. The wanted to be the best that they could be and that is what we want for all of the world's children.

So I am honored to be here with you. I thank all the countries who are here today. I thank all the leaders around the world who recognize that we can make progress by working together to end modern-day slavery. And I particularly thank our heroes who have showed us it is possible, despite the odds.

Thank you all very much.

So you want us to stand over here?

QUEST: The U.S. secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, along with Ambassador Luis CdeBaca. And she is now acknowledging the various heroes and will be congratulating them individually.

We'll now just take a pause from that.

Jill Dougherty joins me from the State Department, our State Department correspondent -- Jill -- and also with me is Mark Lagon, the former U.S. ambassador at large to combat trafficking in persons -- let's start with you, though, Jill.

The -- the report that is presented, 11 years, they've been doing it. And for the first time, the United States is now also in this report.

How significant is this report?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Richard, it's -- it's very important, because it is, really, you'd have to say the bible for information about this. I mean we went to the office where it's put together, watched what they were doing. And they spend months calculating this, the team here at the State Department, talking with governments around the world, with NGOs, with...

QUEST: Right...

DOUGHERTY: -- people who are actually affected by it, putting together the list to be very objective about who is doing what they should be doing and -- and the governments that are not doing it. In some cases, the problem is they have the law on the book but they are not enforcing it.

And that, I think, is the message that you're hearing from the secretary. It's time to really deliver on -- on these laws that some countries do have.

QUEST: Right.

Mark Lagon, the former U.S. ambassador at large to combat trafficking, now a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. Mark is also with me from Washington.

What distinguishes -- I mean if I look at some of the countries on tier three...


QUEST: -- North Korea, Libya, Sudan, Turkmenistan, I'm perhaps not surprised by them.

But what distinguishes a country from tier one to tier two?

And -- and I think, crucially, do countries care whether they make the top tiers?

LAGON: Well, I found, clearly, that when I was with human trafficking ambassador, countries cared a great deal. The ambassadors of those countries came to visit me, came to listen to the remarks I gave publicly.

Tier one countries are not perfect, but they're making -- they're making, you know, their stake on really protecting victims and bringing the perpetrators to justice, whereas tier two countries are making an effort, but haven't gotten there yet.

And there really is a distinction. They're countries that are -- are making great strides, like the Philippines.

QUEST: But -- but let me just interrupt you there. I mean when I look at tier two countries and I see something like Switzerland, Israel, Hungary, even Iceland, these are -- particularly Iceland and Switzerland, you'd have said these were countries -- bastions of human rights.

So I would how strict does it have to be before you lose your tier one status?

LAGON: Well, I think it's very good that we not give a free ride to Western countries and say, yes, they're democracies with the rule of law, they deserve an A grade.

The fact is that globally, not just in Western Europe, you see lots of laws put in place. About 128 countries have comprehensive human trafficking laws, about two thirds of the countries in the world. But implementation is missing. Punishing the people who are responsible...

QUEST: Right.

LAGON: -- for this and saving the victims.

QUEST: As I look at what Secretary Clinton said, it seems to me this concept that -- of -- of -- and I know that we talk about the three Ps, the, you know, prosecution, protection, prevention.

And -- but it's really partnership, isn't it, that's going to do this?

Government can't do it. NGOs certainly can't do it on their own the private sector has to be involved. And -- and I suppose consumers have to be involved, as well.

LAGON: I'm glad that Secretary Clinton has emphasized this fourth P of partnerships. It's a -- it's a good, consistent bipartisan effort that we've seen in both of the last two administrations. Non-governmental organizations are essential for finding those victims who are otherwise going to be looked at as criminals or undocumented workers who knew what they were doing and businesses...

QUEST: Let me...


QUEST: -- let -- a quick final question to you, Mark.

When you were doing this work, did it ever become very depressing?

Did you ever feel that how does one continue doing this in this sea of misery?

LAGON: Well, it's -- it's an absolute privilege to work in the U.S. government, you know, to try and help people who are being treated as subhuman. I actually found it inspiring, because I met people like those TIP heroes...

QUEST: Right.

LAGON: -- who were devoting their lives to helping create, you know, a new life for survivors, so they could reclaim their dignity. That was actually inspiring.

QUEST: Mark, we thank you for joining us.

Good to have you with us.

Now, Jill, a final to you...

LAGON: It's a pleasure.

QUEST: -- a final to you. The -- give me a bit of sort of hard-nosed response, if you like, on this, as to the -- the U.S. State Department produces many reports. There are human rights reports. There are anti- proliferation. And there are lots of reports come from the State Department.

Within the State Department, how do you think they gauge this one?

DOUGHERTY: I think it's gauged quite seriously, because it does, Richard, in some cases, present a -- a quandary for the State Department in terms of the international policy, because it lists countries -- just look at Saudi Arabia. They're low on the list. And it can be friends, supposedly, or, you know, countries that the United States works with that are being criticized.

And that is a problem, because, by all rights, they are supposed to be cutting aid to those countries.

So it's a dilemma. Sometimes this report cuts across what U.S. diplomacy may want to do.

QUEST: All right. Jill, we thank you for that.

Mark in Washington, along with Jill.

Many thanks, indeed, on the TIP report.

We will continue. And there will be a CNN Freedom Project exclusive later on. Jim Clancy will be talking one-to-one with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It follows the trafficking report.

And Secretary Clinton will be giving her assessment of its findings. It's tonight on "CONNECT THE WORLD," at 9:00 in London, 10:00 in Berlin, 11:00 in Southern Europe and across to Athens. And it is, of course, on CNN.


QUEST: The U.S. State Department honoring the people -- the heroes of the Trafficking In Persons report from -- in Washington, DC. The State Department has released the 2011 Trafficking In Persons, which ranked the countries by their efforts to tackle the practice of human trafficking.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says it's a key tool in engaging governments about tackling modern-day slavery.

Let's consider now the various Ps of partnership, prevention and prosecution -- these are the core. For the last 23 years, the government has advocated the 3P approach.

Now, start with prosecution.

The State Department -- and Hillary Clinton just said -- convictions have remained static -- dismally low, perhaps, compared to the scale of the problem. But prosecution is only part of the issue. It's the passing of modern laws that is the first step in dealing with human trafficking. Victims should be able to see their traffickers brought to justice. That's the prosecution side of it.

And also, under the terms, there has to be decent long sentences, of a minimum of four years, to meet the necessary requirements.

But that's part of the story. You've got to think about protections, as well. Now, protections might be meeting obligations that go beyond the obligations. For example, it could be -- it could be legal protections. It could be protections for health and insuring the repatriation of those who are affected. There's a whole list of criteria that they require to have -- health care, ID, prosecutions.

And then you've got the last, perhaps the most important, prevention - - cutting off modern slavery at its source. Now, the prevention aspect deals with things like preventing debt bondage, legal loopholes, tolerances, restrictive practices, all the immigration niceties that might allow this sort of thing to take place.

There's a fourth one that now comes into it, which the secretary of State referred to. It's called partnerships. And this is basically the idea that no one participant, no one actor, can really take all parts involved.

Let's focus now on what's the government aspect.

According to a group of investors, the business world has an important role to play in the fight against human trafficking. They released a statement coincidental with the trafficking report in which they say: "Making modern-day slavery history makes good business sense."

The Reverend David Schilling joins me now from New York, from the organization leading the action.

Reverend Schilling, business has a role to play and I suspect it's when it comes to companies that you're really looking at detailed policies, not just airy, fairy language?

REV. DAVID SCHILLING, INTERFAITH CENTER ON CORPORATE RESPONSIBILITY: That's correct. Richard, I think the important thing here is, first, companies need to adopt policies that are real and then implement them, train their staff around human trafficking and modern-day slavery, doing human rights impact assessments in the community to know what's happening in their supply chains.

So you are absolutely right, it's not -- we're not looking, as investors, for companies just to adopt policies and not do anything with them. We really want to walk the road with investors, with investors and companies, to really get companies to engage and involved in global supply chains, where, often, at the commodity level, we find it's rife with modern-day slaveries.

QUEST: Companies -- we -- we've looked a lot, on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we've looked into this a lot.

And, Reverend, I can tell you, getting a chief executive to sit in your chair -- in that chair and talk to me about this, it's nigh on difficult, because everybody says that they want to do something, but it really is the third rail in the sense that nobody wants to be the one to put their head above the parapet.

What can you do to make them be more outspoken?

SCHILLING: Well, first of all, the Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility, a coalition of faith-based and socially responsible investors, have had a long history, starting in 1971, engaging companies. And, as a result, we've developed relationships with CEOs, as well as top management.

I think that's essential, first, because we have developed a trust with a number of companies and can move them in that direction. And second, there's organizations like the Business Coalition Against Human Trafficking, that has just been established...


SCHILLING: -- that we've helped to support.

QUEST: But -- and let's just look at some of your policies.

You say that you should have a policy stating the company's commitment to respect human rights. You talk about the necessity of appropriate training for employees, for contractors, for vendors. You talk about the contribution to the prevention of trafficking, including awareness, raising educational campaigns, alliances, annual reports, all these sorts of things you talk about. They have to be funded.

Doesn't it rely on the chief executive to basically say I will not tolerate anything else?

SCHILLING: It needs to actually star -- start at the board level, as well as the CEO level. And I think you're absolutely right, it has to become sort of a part of the DNA of the company. There needs to be a passion here. And we, as investors, see this first and foremost, as a moral issue, but it's also a business risk issue. And I think the leadership at the top of a company can make a difference.

But let's be clear, companies alone can't do it. Partnerships, as the ambassador said, are so, so critical. And it means non-governmental organizations in local communities working with companies and government to addresses the issues. And that's where we think we can make the most progress.

QUEST: And we're glad you came along today to put the corporate side -- or at least to talk about the business side of this, since, after all, we are a business program and we need to deal with it from the dollars and cents.

Reverend, many thanks, indeed, for joining us.

Reverend Schilling joining me from New York.

We'll stay in the business world, but we will move from Freedom Project and we'll look at debt -- a different type of debt. A compromise perhaps on the cards. The White House says a significant deficit reduction plan could still happen this year.

What does Maggie Lake think, after the break.


QUEST: Let's turn our attention to the question of debt and whether it's in the U.S. or in Greece, let's start with Greece.

Tonight, the private sector is stepping up the Greek debt crisis. The French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, said his country's banks are ready to play a role in Greece's rescue. French banks agreed, apparently, to roll over some of the debt. They will reinvest 70 percent of their Greek debt holdings between now and '14. Mr. Sarkozy says he hopes other European countries will agree to a similar blueprint.

When is a rollover not a default?

It seems when it is this situation.

The debate has begun in the Greek parliament ahead of this week's key vote. The Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, has appealed, saying a vote for the austerity plan is the only chance for Greece to get back on its feet. The Greek opposition leader, Antonis Samaras, under EU pressure to go along with it, has said -- he says no more bailout money until they do the deal.

But there's a 48 hour general strike starting, as Greece teeters on the edge, and thousands of citizens are already trying to cope with the salary slash or no job at all. Anti-austerity protests are planned. The 48 hour strike starts on Tuesday.

Some demonstrations, incidentally, have already kicked off protests by hanging large "Power to the People!" banners at the Acropolis in Athens.

Now, a sense of progress on Greece helped most often Europe's major stock indices. They rose. Only the DAX couldn't climb out of the red.

The White House -- let's turn debt from Greece to the US. The White House says a deficit reduction plan -- a significant debt reduction plan could still happen this year. The problem -- the cost -- the -- the key to it is compromise. President Obama has been meeting with senior Congressional leaders.

Maggie Lake is in New York -- hey, Maggie, the Republicans, when they walked out last week, politically, wanted to get Obama into the chair. They wanted him getting his hands dirty. They seemed to have got their wish.

MAGGIE LAKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they did. And -- and, Richard, it should be said that most everyone, on both sides of the party, thought it would ultimately come to Obama getting involved. It was just a question of when.

But when you have a situation, whether in business or politics, and the deals are deadlocked, the talks are deadlocked, you bring in the boss. And that's certainly what's happened. Obama is personally involved now. He's meeting with the top Repub -- senators, Republican and Democratic, not together yet, that will be the next step -- separately. Harry Reid, the Democratic leader, in the morning; Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, in the afternoon, to see if they could sort of jump start the talks.

Now, the two sides are very far apart still. But the White House press secretary, speaking just a short time ago, said that the talks were constructive and that they have hope that a deal can be reached.

Have a listen.


JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We believe that it is still very much possible, that, if everyone is willing to abandon the my way or the highway approach, to accept that compromise on behalf of the American people requires tough choices, we can get significant deficit reduction done this year.


LAKE: More specifically, the administration and the Democrats want the Republicans to consider taking on one of their sacred cows, and that is taxes. They want tax increases in some very targeted areas.

Now, the Republicans have said, so far, that they're not going for that. That will be the crux of, one would presume, the discussions with McConnell this evening with the president.

But one thing the Republicans keep stressing is you can't sort of cherry pick little tax increases here, spending cuts here, they need to have something that is substantive to prove to not only the country, but also to the markets.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: We need to put something together that will actually pass and make a difference, impress Standard & Poor's and Moody's and the rating agencies that are about to downgrade the U.S. credit rating for the first time in our history.


LAKE: So they've got a lot of work to do, Richard.

What is interesting to me is he's meeting with the top leadership in the Senate to try to work out a bill. The unknown here is really the role of the Tea Party, some of the newer members of Congress, who, when you listen to pundits in Washington say, you know, they're not really used to and aren't interested in deal-making. They think they're on a mission from God to cut spending and they're determined to do it.

So -- so it's sort of an interesting dynamic. It's the wildcard in all this -- will the leadership be able to...

QUEST: All right...

LAKE: -- draw in their party to tow the line and get a deal done?

That's the big question.

QUEST: Yes, yes, you -- but while they talk, the August deadline gets closer and the temperature gets hotter and the risk of an accident gets greater.

LAKE: That's right. And a lot of people warning, you don't want to bump up right against -- it's great political theater, but it's not a good idea, when you're dealing with very nervous markets...

QUEST: Right.

LAKE: -- to get right up to the deadline and get a deal done. We saw how dangerous that was back in '08, when the crisis almost got ahead of them people will start to take action before that deadline...

QUEST: All right...

LAKE: -- gets near, especially if they have a sense that they've -- they don't have control of the whole party.

So they need to get something done soon.

QUEST: Wall Street, Maggie, is giving its own reaction on it today. They're ignoring it. Let's go to the Dow.

Maggie, many thanks, indeed.

The Dow is up 151 points, a gain of 1.25 percent. We're over 12000 and that seems to be a nice rebound from Friday's sell-off.

Gains across all sectors. Microsoft one of the top performers, up more than 4 percent. And that's because of a new military hardware deal.

OK, move on to this particular story. This is fascinating. Remember we told you about the hacking of Citigroup and -- credit cards. Well, it turns out the hackers actually accessed many more accounts than had originally been thought. Apparently, the hackers actually accessed 360,000 accounts. That's more than we had been led to believe.

And from those accounts, they stole -- wait for it -- $2,700,000.

Now, we know that that money will not be liable to the people involved. That's certainly the case.

But what's really fascinating, all that -- all those accounts and all that money, guess what?

It actually only came from 3,400 accounts. The rest of them were left untouched. Three thousand four hundred people lost serious money.

If you want to know more about this story and others, I've filed an article that you can follow. Its at, where you can read of the details, the hacking, what happened and also what Citibank have said about it.

The weather started beautifully, delightfully, magnificently, and in Europe, it was a treat to behold.

Jenny Harrison -- it's not now, is it?


QUEST: It's not now.

HARRISON: It depends where you are today. You said it started beautifully, but you didn't actually say which day you're talking about, so I know you.


HARRISON: Yes, you're right, of course, Richard. There's been some glorious weather, but things are set to change. This is the satellite the last few hours. Out toward the west, already some evidence of some thunderstorms pushing in. And then here, you can see across to areas of Eastern Europe, where you have got this area of low pressure.

Now, as I say, the heat has been on. Not much in the way of rain or thunderstorms in the last few hours. But look at these temperatures. This, as you can see here, Madrid, 38 degrees. We've got London at 32, but it's actually the amount above average. Paris at 36, 14 degrees above average. It really is some of the highest temperatures we have had so far this year. And that heat is set, really, until we go into Tuesday.

But then, of course, things are set to change, indeed. We've got an area of low pressure with a front which is sweeping in from the northwest. And very strong thunderstorms along the line of this. Different air masses, of course. The cool air coming in behind. This very, very warm, humid air ahead of it. And this is where we will see those thunderstorms. There are some warnings in place, too, as we head off into Tuesday.

Tuesday into Wednesday, really, is when we expect to see the worst of them across the Low Countries, the northern areas of France and on toward the west and north of Germany.

But until then, it should be fine and dry, certainly for Wimbledon. There's quite a cloudy day in store on Tuesday, but not a great deal, hopefully, in the way of rain.

And then, after that, it will feel very nice. Temperatures in the low 20s Celsius.

But, indeed, it has been very warm and so people have been out enjoying the sunshine.

And, of course, what better way to do it than to, I guess, jump into a fountain or two? that, of course, is the Tower of London in the background.

Paris, meanwhile, look at the temperatures here for Tuesday -- 32 degrees, so still 10 degrees above average.

And then it's likely we could see some thunderstorms coming through late Tuesday into Wednesday. But they'll bring the temperature down quite nicely. And then Madrid, nothing really to do that just yet. Those temperatures will well above average for the next few days.

That low just sitting across the east. Out toward the west, that's where we're going to see thunderstorms and then when it comes to temperatures, 23 in London, you can see here, on Tuesday. And still warm in Paris, a high of 32 -- Richard.

QUEST: Jenny Harrison, I was more interested in the temperature in Athens, where we will be presenting the program from later this week, 28 degrees.

And I'll see you in Athens later on in the week.

A Profitable Moment is after the break.


QUEST: Tonight's Profitable Moment.

The U.S. State Department report reminds us we all have to care about human trafficking. Events may take place in distant countries and sometimes it may seem that we're powerless to act.

They shouldn't stop us from trying.

There are three major concepts that we need to remember -- the prosecution, of course, for those who commit the atrocities, the protection for those who are hurt and affected. And the most important must be prevention -- how we can stop these things from happening in the first place.

It is not idealistic to say consumers and companies play a part. It's a recognition that money speaks. Governments can only do so much. And there are many more of us who can make that difference, as we have shown you tonight.

And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight.

I'm Richard Quest in London.

Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, thank you for being with us.

I hope it's profitable.

And Piers is after the headlines.