Return to Transcripts main page


Anthony Family on the Stand

Aired June 28, 2011 - 21:00   ET



VINNIE POLITAN, HOST (voice-over): The Anthony family on the stand. Father George rejecting suggestions of infidelity.

JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you have a romantic relationship with her?


POLITAN: Mother Cindy and brother Lee contradicting each other.

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: She sent Dominic into the woods off of Suburban.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I never sent those guys there.

POLITAN: Then, all three sitting together in court just feet away from Casey. What a portrait.

Also, Roy Kronk, the man who discovered Caylee`s remains, finally takes the stand.

ROY KRONK, FMR. METER READER: I never discovered a body in August.

POLITAN: All of that and more straight ahead on DR. DREW.


POLITAN: Good evening. I`m Vinnie Politan, sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight.

And what a day here we had in Orlando, where we are live.

Earlier today, George Anthony, Casey Anthony`s father, took the stand. He denied having an affair with Krystal Holloway. It was a little awkward on the stand. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Anthony being asked if he had an affair with a volunteer. The entire family called to the stand. First George, then Cindy, then Lee.

C. ANTHONY: I had no knowledge of that search in that area, so I would not have had an argument regarding that.

BAEZ: Did you ever have an argument or a discussion with your mother?

L. ANTHONY: Yes, sir, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roy Kronk still on the stand. He`s the man who found little Caylee`s remains.

KRONK: I realized what it was, and I set it down as gently as I could.

CHENEY MASON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you tell him that you were going to be famous?

KRONK: I don`t believe so.


POLITAN: That`s the controversial meter reader, Roy Kronk. He, too, was on the stand.

But when George Anthony went up there, all the talk was about this alleged affair he had with a volunteer who helped search for Caylee. Now, George Anthony also says that he never told her that Caylee`s death was an accident.



BAEZ: You never told Krystal Holloway, while the two of you were being romantic, that this was an accident that snowballed out of control?

G. ANTHONY: Would you ask that one more time, please?

BAEZ: You never told her this was an accident that snowballed out of control?

G. ANTHONY: Never did.


POLITAN: George seemed a little hesitant there, didn`t he? But that`s not what she said.

This woman, Krystal Holloway, claims that she and George had this steamy affair, and says George confided in her all about Caylee`s disappearance. Listen.


KRYSTAL HOLLOWAY, CLAIMS TO HAVE HAD AFFAIR WITH GEORGE ANTHONY: I caught him in a bad moment and he was crying, and he said, "Look, it was an accident. It just snowballed out of control."

INVESTIGATOR: OK. But he never said to you how he knew that, how he know it was an accident?

HOLLOWAY: No, and I didn`t want to ask.


POLITAN: Why would she make that up so long ago? Who is telling the truth here?

We`re getting to the bottom of it.

With me tonight in Orlando, as I sit in for Dr. Drew, the host of "In Session" on truTV, Ryan Smith, and criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh.

Welcome, guys.

And today was the day when George Anthony finally was asked some questions about this alleged mistress, Ryan. Denials. But I will tell you what, it was a little awkward. And every woman that I spoke to today did not believe this guy.

RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION," TRUTV: And I can tell why. I can tell you.

What would my girl friend say if I told here, you know what? I`m going over somebody`s place a couple of times, they live in a gated community. I`m sending them text messages, maybe eight, nine, 10, but my wife knows about it. But that`s what I`m doing. I`m just checking on her because she`s a volunteer.

So that made him unbelievable. But I`ll tell you what, Vinnie. What`s the net effect here? He denied it on the stand. He also denied ever telling her about an accident that happened with Caylee.

She hasn`t testified yet. So right now, the jury`s perspective is George Anthony on the stand, maybe looking a little sketchy, but denying it.

POLITAN: Here`s the concern I would have if I was the prosecution, Mark, is this was sort of my guy, right? Because he`s the one who the defense is going after, right?

They are making him the villain. George Anthony, the sex abuser. George Anthony, the adulterer now. George Anthony, the guy who choreographs this cover-up.


POLITAN: And he didn`t look comfortable up there. So, if every woman I`m speaking to believes he`s not telling the truth, I`ve got to think the women and maybe even the men in that jury don`t think he`s telling the truth about this.

EIGLARSH: Let me put into perspective. Vinnie, I`ve been waiting to tell you something all day. I was going to tweet it to you, but I`m going to tell you right now. I need you in my life. Are you kidding me?

POLITAN: I`m feeling uncomfortable right now.

EIGLARSH: George apparently says this to this woman. I mean, he admitted on the stand that those are the exact words he used, "I need you in my life." That, coupled with letters, visits to her house, showing her compassion, he says -- he might have shown her something else. And from there you get, well, he is the villain, he`s lying on stand. Now you can`t believe anything he says.

POLITAN: And the judge will say that. Let`s take a listen to George Anthony, because I want the folks at home to see some of this.

Here he is talking about that "I need you in my life" text message.


BAEZ: Did you ever send her a text message telling her that you needed her in your life?

G. ANTHONY: Well, I`ve seen that information come out. Yes. I sent many text messages to many, many volunteers and people who were helping out and, yes, I did need those people in my life. Yes.

BAEZ: So you sent her that text message?

G. ANTHONY: Yes, sir. I`m not going to say that I didn`t.


POLITAN: Now, I don`t want anyone to perceive that I`m judging George Anthony here, because he`s in a position where he`s lost his granddaughter, emotionally vulnerable, so I don`t know what the truth is. I just know what would happen if on my BlackBerry there was a text message that said, "I need you in my life," and it went to another woman. There`s no way --

EIGLARSH: And imagine if your wife saw that.

POLITAN: That`s what I`m saying. If that is found, that is no way --


EIGLARSH: So a lot of people say, so what? How does that affect the case?

In closing argument, they are going to turn to the jury and they`re going to say, look, he lied about this. Clearly, there`s no one -- even the guys -- not just the women, but the guys are looking around saying, come on.

So if he lies about that, as the judge will instruct them with the jury instructions, you can disregard his entire testimony. They can throw whatever inference they want.

SMITH: Here`s the problem -- he lied about this, had an uncomfortable moment, whatever. Does this relate to him lying definitively about the accident theory, about something that happened here, about something in this case --

EIGLARSH: To us, no. But we`re not on this jury.

SMITH: Yes. But even this jury, will they look at George Anthony and say, I`m going to disregard everything he said? And not only that, I`m going to now believe the defense side of the theory? Even though he denied all of it, I`m going to believe there`s an accident else.

EIGLARSH: That`s not going to happen. That is too much of a vertical leap. They`re not going to be that generous. Even juror number 4, who I was watching in court yesterday, only took notes one time that I saw, only when the defense was advancing their theory.

POLITAN: All right.

Let`s take a listen to more of George Anthony, because he`s asked about visiting the alleged mistress, and why are you visiting this woman? She`s a volunteer. And I understand that she`s trying to help find Caylee.

Does she have an agenda? Did George have an agenda? What was going on here.

Here`s how it went down.


BAEZ: Explain to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury why you went to her apartment.

G. ANTHONY: The very first time I remember being there it was because we had a conversation because she had relayed to me probably weeks or maybe just a few days prior to me going there for the very first time that she has a brain tumor. She was dying. She needed someone to comfort her.


POLITAN: All right. She`s claiming a brain tumor.

Is this something George Anthony is making up, Ryan, or do we believe that she actually had it, or she was making it up to lure him to her apartment?

SMITH: Well, that`s what he`s implying, that she was making it up. But you know what else he said on the stand? He also said, hey, she doesn`t have a clean past either. She`s had some arrests. He was quick to offer that when Jose Baez is questioning him.

POLITAN: His wife is sitting in the gallery listening to all of this.

SMITH: And she`s hearing every word. And not only that, his son, his daughter.

But I`ve got to think for him to be so -- I guess gullible -- and again, I don`t want to judge him either, but for him to just be in this state where he says, yes, I`ll go over there, maybe it was a weak moment. Maybe it was a moment where he believed somebody that he shouldn`t.

EIGLARSH: And if he just came out and said that, we would all say that`s OK. The big moment was when he said, look, my wife knew about it. No problem. So I thought when she took the witness stand, they were going to ask her.

POLITAN: Ask her about it.

EIGLARSH: Right. You`re OK with that? You knew. He was trying to help? People were being compassionate to him, he was showing love and compassion to others.

That moment never came.

POLITAN: All right.

Coming up next, more Anthony family lies and secrets. Did Lee call his own mother a liar on the stand today?

Plus, George denies his affair. Will his mistress still take the stand? That`s next.

I`m Vinnie Politan, sitting in tonight for Dr. Drew. Stay with us.


BAEZ: Did you at any time ever tell her not to say anything about your affair with her?

G. ANTHONY: Sir, I never had a romantic affair with Krystal Holloway, River Cruz, or whatever name she wanted to give you or the world. If I`m not mistaken, sir, she has a questionable past. OK?

And if I can clarify that with you, she has also been arrested for fraud and breaking and entering and stuff like that.

BAEZ: Judge, I want to move to strike his answer.

G. ANTHONY: She is not a very good person, sir.




VIRGINIA CHA, HLN: George Anthony being asked if he had an affair with a volunteer. The entire family called to the stand. First George, then Cindy, then Lee.

C. ANTHONY: I had no knowledge of that search in that area, so I would not have had an argument regarding that.

BAEZ: Did you ever have an argument or discussion with your mother?

L. ANTHONY: Yes, sir. I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roy Kronk still on the stand. He`s the man who found little Caylee`s remains.

KRONK: I realized what it was and I set it down as gently as I could.

MASON: Did you tell him that you were going to be famous?

KRONK: I don`t believe so.


POLITAN: Cindy Anthony insisted her granddaughter was still alive. But was she secretly looking for Caylee`s dead body?

I`m Vinnie Politan, sitting in for Dr. Drew, live from Orlando tonight.

Lee Anthony took the stand today and said Cindy hired a private investigator to search for Caylee based on a tip that she got from a psychic. But Cindy denied it. Mother and son contradicted each other on the stand.

Listen to this.


BAEZ: Prior to September, 2008, did you tell your son, Lee Anthony, that you had sent Dominic Casey and/or Jim Hoover to Suburban Drive to look for Caylee with a video camera?

C. ANTHONY: I had never -- I had never told anybody that I sent those guys there.

BAEZ: Did your mother tell you anything about sending Dominic with a video camera to Suburban Drive?

L. ANTHONY: Yes, sir, that did happen.

BAEZ: What did she tell you?

L. ANTHONY: That she sent Dominic into the woods off of Suburban because she got a psychic tip that she wanted to follow up on.


POLITAN: Back to my expert panel. Attorney Mark Eiglarsh is here with me. So is body language expert Susan Constantine. She was in court observing everything today. And famed criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos joins us in L.A.

Great to see you tonight, Mark.

All right, Susan. Let me go to you first.

The dynamics here that we`re talking about, we`re talking about a mother and son, right?


POLITAN: Completely different stories about whether or not they hired Dominic Casey.

Did you see anything in their body language that told you what`s going on between Cindy Anthony and Lee Anthony? I mean, Cindy couldn`t have been clearer that she didn`t hire Dominic Casey to go look over there. And Lee is saying no, she told him to go over there because she spoke to a psychic.

CONSTANTINE: Well, I think this is one of the times where they actually didn`t get together and talk about what they were going to share when they got up there.

POLITAN: So they are just being honest about their recollection? Or who is lying here? Were there any indicators that one was lying and the other one wasn`t?

CONSTANTINE: Cindy was lying. Lee was telling the truth. Lee was much more credible than what Cindy was.

In fact, afterwards, I saw Lee walking out of the courtroom all by himself. No one else was with him. He looked sad and depressed. You know, he felt like he was alone. You could see the kind of destitute look on his face.

And when I walked down to the elevators, there is Cindy and George walking with their attorney. They`re not walking together as a family. That family is split and divided right now.

POLITAN: It was a tough day for this family.

Mark Geragos, I mean, you have George Anthony on the stand today being questioned about an affair that he had. His wife Cindy is in the gallery watching this. Lee Anthony gets up on the stand and then contradicts his own mother. And then they are not leaving the courthouse together.

I mean, is this a dysfunctional family that is on display for this jury? And will that help the defense here?

MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, the best thing from a defense standpoint that happened today was not the substance of any of this, but the fact that when you take it as a whole, it shows exactly what you just said, Vinnie, which is it`s a dysfunctional family. So when anybody in the prosecution gets up there and starts talking about lying, lying defendant, lying defendant, this or that, all you`ve got to say, if you`re sitting on that jury is, well, I know why she`s lying. Look at this family. Nobody can tell the truth.

It doesn`t really matter who is telling the truth at this point. All you have got at the end of the day and at the end of the defense`s case, this is one family who you can`t trust anything that is coming out of their mouths.

EIGLARSH: See, I disagree with Mark. I think that on paper that works that, yes, she`s completely dysfunctional, but it needs to go further. They need to deliver on what Jose promised, the actual unit of the father being inside of that place reserved only for food and cavities.

They have not proven that. So what we`ve got now -- all we have now is a bunch of lies consistent with -- Mark, let me finish. They don`t have to prove it.

GERAGOS: They don`t have to prove any of that. Nothing.

EIGLARSH: But they promised it at opening. They are no different than many dysfunctional families. Her actions, however, are completely different than a normal person --

GERAGOS: This is a lie.

EIGLARSH: Are we going to talk over one another, Mark? Do you want me to go or do you want to go?

GERAGOS: I`m just going to explain to you --

EIGLARSH: You go right ahead. Explain it to me, Mark, because I haven`t watched the trial. Go ahead.

GERAGOS: It all depends on how that jury views this family. And I`m telling you, when they see what was happening today, there`s no way anybody walks away from that or says, OK, I believe any of their protestations.

EIGLARSH: Because one person lied? I mean, listen, the kind of abuse --

GERAGOS: How many people lie?

EIGLARSH: -- that he`s alleging maybe gets you into that stratosphere. They`re not even close. Where is the evidence that this family is any more dysfunctional than any other dysfunctional family justifying her abhorrent behavior? I don`t see it yet.

I`m with you on paper. I don`t --

POLITAN: You`re now talking over Mark Geragos.

Go ahead, Mark Geragos.

GERAGOS: Well, look, it`s almost silly to expect that they are going to get up there and somebody`s going to say yes, I admit, I was sexually abusing her, and face a life sentence. Not going to happen.

To expect somebody that`s going to break down in a Perry Mason moment, that doesn`t happen in courtrooms. But what happened in the courtroom today is -- well, of course it`s convenient. But at the same time, explain to me why it is -- when you say one person lying, at least two are lying, potentially three are lying.

That you have -- how do you get around that? And when you --

EIGLARSH: That would explain not reporting your child missing. I guess that will do it.

POLITAN: Let`s do this -- Susan Constantine, I want to show you Lee Anthony on the stand. And he got upset when he was talking about the search for a dead Caylee. Maybe that tells us more about what`s going on in this family.

Take a look.


L. ANTHONY: It was the first time I had ever heard anyone in my family offer it up that they were willing to look for a deceased Caylee. Prior to that, not even within the realm of anybody`s mindset. So I was quite angry.


POLITAN: Lee Anthony, angry with his family, because now they are searching for a deceased Caylee.

Is this more of the dysfunction and distrust in this family?

CONSTANTINE: There is a lot of distrust in this family. What I noticed with Lee was that he has got a lot of pent-up anger inside of him.

You know, you`ll see his mouth become very horizontal like this, and you`ll see his chin kind of pull up, kind of like in sadness. So he`s dealing with a lot of pent-up anger. He`s frustrated and he`s angry.

And it`s very hard for him to be able to -- just to kind of throw it off his shoulder. I mean, he`s been through an awful lot.

But one of the things I would like to speak to is that this jury is becoming numb. They are becoming numb with all their lies. They are becoming numb.

I`m watching that jury, and in the back row I see people writing notes, but in the front row I`m seeing maybe a couple jurors making a few notes here and there. They`re sitting back and they`re listening as these stories are being unfolded and told over and over again.

They`ve heard so many lies. How many more are awe going to listen to? I`ve had enough. They`ve made their decision.

POLITAN: They`re making their point that no one can be trusted here.

All right. Coming up, the man who found Caylee`s body finally takes the stand. Now, he says he poked around with his meter reading stick and realized that he was touching a child`s skull. You don`t want to miss this.

I`m Vinnie Politan, sitting in for Dr. Drew. Stay with us.


FRANK GEORGE, ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: In October of 2008, you were completely sold on the lies that your sister told you.

BAEZ: Objection, Your Honor. Scope.


L. ANTHONY: Yes and no.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever tell River Cruz that you grabbed her by the throat, threw her up against the wall, and said, I know you did something to Caylee, where is Caylee?

G. ANTHONY: No, sir, I never did do that to my daughter.


POLITAN: I`m Vinnie Politan, sitting in for Dr. Drew, live from Orlando.

Another big day in the courtroom today. The entire Anthony family back on the witness stand -- mistresses, meter readers and lies. We`ll tell you all about the shocking testimony from Roy Kronk coming up next.

But first, George Anthony denies that he had an affair, and Lee and Cindy battle it out right in front of the jury.

Back to my expert panel. Attorney Mark Eiglarsh, he`s here with me in Orlando, and high-powered criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos in Los Angeles.

Mark Geragos, George Anthony, if this jury doesn`t believe him in denying the affair, does that get the defense any closer to proving sex abuse?

GERAGOS: Well, you know, it is a disbelief about something sexual. And if he`s going to deny the affair, which, arguably, is not that big of a deal, why wouldn`t it be logical that he`s also going to deny what he actually did if he abused her? So I think, yes, it does get you somewhere.

There`s going to be a jury instruction that tells the jury they can consider that. So all of those things --


POLITAN: An inference from denying an affair to sexually abusing your 8-year-old child?

GERAGOS: Well, yes. If you find that somebody was materially false on one subject, you`ve got the ability and the jury has the ability to disregard all of their testimony or segments of it. And here you can make the argument in closing, look, the guy denied the affair. He`s denying what`s obvious, and why wouldn`t he deny what is obviously shameful?

EIGLARSH: Mark, I promise I didn`t come on here to give you a hard time. But do you think -- maybe legally -- that`s the first time I`ve heard anyone articulate maybe legally you can do that. But factually, do you think these jurors are capable of taking that vertical leap from, he denied something, maybe he had an affair, to he sexually molested his daughter, he took a body, and his spite of his daughter facing the possibility of death, he then discarded that body, like they`re alleging, et cetera, et cetera? Do you think that factually they can make that leap?

GERAGOS: Well, I`ve got a question for you, Mark. You remember that you`re a defense lawyer, not a prosecutor.

EIGLARSH: That`s correct.

GERAGOS: As a defense lawyer, all you`re doing is reasonable doubt. And if somebody is lying about an affair, why is that such a huge leap to the fact that he would be lying about committing abuse?

That isn`t a huge leap. Both are lies about sex.

EIGLARSH: First of all, I am well aware of my function.

GERAGOS: You want to let me finish about that?

EIGLARSH: I will. Go ahead.

POLITAN: Let him finish, Eiglarsh!

GERAGOS: I have my doubts about it, Mark. I`ve got my doubts about that.

Mark, the problem is here, you`ve got somebody denying this affair, who is claiming that he`s going over there to help her with her brain tumor while his granddaughter is missing? You find that to be something that is credible? You think that that makes a whole lot of sense? And if he`s lying about that and the jury`s --

EIGLARSH: No. I said earlier -- go ahead.

POLITAN: I`m going to have to jump in here in just a second, because, actually, I`m filling in for Dr. Drew. I`m filling in for Dr. Drew, not Mark or Mark.

But it`s a great conversation. You bring up a lot of important points in this case.

EIGLARSH: We`re not done, but go ahead.

POLITAN: We`re not done, but we`re a little bit out of time here. You know?

EIGLARSH: Oh, I understand that. Yes. Got it.

POLITAN: There`s time constraints.

All right. Next up, meter reader Roy Kronk takes the stand, and his much-anticipated testimony did not disappoint. We`ll talk about it when we come back.

I`m live in Orlando, sitting in for the doc tonight. You`re watching DR. DREW.



POLITAN: Day 30 in the Casey Anthony murder trial. Little Caylee`s remain callously dumped in the woods. The man who made that gruesome discovery finally taking the stand.

CHENEY MASON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you tell him that you were going to be famous, be rich, and you will make money?

POLITAN: It was not an easy day for Roy Kronk.

MASON: Does that really mean yes?

POLITAN: And later, Cindy Anthony stunned us all last week.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Well, I started looking at chlorophyll and then that prompted me to look up chloroform.

POLITAN: We all want to know. Was she covering for Casey? The prosecution is hauling in her co-workers to get to the truth. What`s in store?

MASON: You know that particular date and time, sir, did you see a skull, a human skull, a small human skull?

ROY KRONK, FOUND CAYLEE`S REMAINS: I was never closer than 20 to 30 feet from the object, and I did see something that appear to me to look like something of that nature, yes, sir.


POLITAN (on-camera): Today on the witness stand, meter reader, Roy Kronk, confirms that in August of 2008, he did see something that appeared to look like a human skull. I`m Vinnie Politan in for Dr. Drew live in Orlando tonight.

Back is criminal defense attorney, Mark Eiglarsh. Also with us, the honorable Alex Ferrer, host of the syndicated TV show, "Judge Alex," and a former Florida circuit court judge. All right. Let`s take another look at Roy Kronk`s testimony from today, and then, we`ll chat.


MASON: When you went on December the 11th, were the remains, including the skull, the same place that you had seen them in August or had they been moved?

KRONK: I cannot answer that question, sir. In August, it was flooded. December, it wasn`t. It was much more grown up in August. It was much less in December. I have no idea.


POLITAN: All right. Judge Alex, I watched you on your television program. You have people in front of you everyday. You got to figure out who`s telling the truth, who`s lying. Let`s take a look at Roy Kronk today. Credibility meter on him. Is he telling the truth? Is this guy lying? Is there something he`s not telling us?

JUDGE ALEX FERRER, HOST, "JUDGE ALEX": You know, I think that he fairly fudged on a few things. I think that, you know, you could see him maybe say he didn`t go as deep as he did into the woods or things like that, but the substantial testimony, the finding of the skull, the making the calls to the police, the fact that he did not, which makes no sense at all, pick up her remains, her decomposing remains, which already seen what they smelled like in Casey`s car after just three days let alone a month and cart them off somewhere.

That part I thought he did a fantastic job. I thought that Cheney Mason really didn`t score major points with him at all, and they needed to.

POLITAN: And here`s the thing, Mark. The build up for this guy came from Jose Baez in his opening statement. Let`s take another listen because he had a very specific description of this man, Roy Kronk.


JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Mr. Kronk is a morally bankrupt individual who actually took Caylee`s body and hid her, and anything that you derived from the scene off of suburban drive is completely unreliable because of the actions of Mr. Kronk.


POLITAN: All right. That`s a big build up, right? I`m looking for evidence, have him hiding some remains. I didn`t see that evidence.

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They failed. The defense alleging that he`s morally bankrupt was proven as much as George being a sexual molester. It has not been proven. Doesn`t mean it`s not there. They just didn`t prove it. And they should have made him a friendly witness, not a foe. All they needed from him was, you picked up the bag, stuff jiggled around there, stuff fell out, you had been poking stuff, then they can`t say that the tape was definitely on the skull.

POLITAN: The duct tape, which is the instrument of death, according to the prosecution.

EIGLARSH: Yes. That`s it.

POLITAN: The way to premeditate a murder first degree. That`s the road to death row.

FERRER: What Mark is pointing out is absolutely crucial. If they get rid of the duct tape being in that position, the state loses its ability to claim premeditated murder, because that`s what they`re relying on, the fact that the tape was laid in three places --


FERRER: So, it makes it impossible to say if he actually shook the body around, I mean, at least it --


POLITAN: I mean, everyone, when you talk about the story, it was like, yes, I don`t get it. He`s calling police three times, and then, he calls again, and he says he sees a skull, but he doesn`t do anything about it. There`s like -- everyone is looking for something more here.

EIGLARSH: It seems weird, but they don`t get that big home run that they`re looking for. So, --

POLITAN: Do you believe him?


POLITAN: You do?

EIGLARSH: I do. I do believe him.

FERRER: You know, look at the flip side. Look at the flip side. The defense wants you to believe that he carted off the body parts. For what? To collect the reward? By the way, he should collect the reward. That`s why we have rewards, so people will call.


FERRER: But all he had to do, if he want to collect the reward is, oh, the police aren`t coming when I`m calling now. I`ll call channel 35. Fox 35 will be here in five minutes.

POLITAN: He didn`t have to call up channel 35 because when he`s there looking right around the corner, and I`ve been to that neighborhood a bunch of times, right around the corner, less than a quarter mile away, are 15 satellite trucks with reporters from HLN and every local station here.

FERRER: The point being is that carting away the remains doesn`t do anything for him. It doesn`t give him one more penny than he would get if he just stood there and insisted there`ll sergeant (ph) or somebody else come out if they`re not sending somebody.

POLITAN: But what if the jury still, they look at this guy, and they like, I don`t understand this story. I just don`t get it. If you see a skull, you don`t just leave a skull because everyone knows everyone is looking for a little girl from around the corner.

EIGLARSH: Let me make this simple for you. The same way the prosecutors made it simple for the jurors on cross. They laid it out. Did you have any relation at all with the Anthonys? Did you even know them before the body was found? Did you have any relation to the blanket? No. So, all this -- what are they trying to allege?

All this was for the guy who finds the remains. They don`t get that leap then to suggest that he somehow was in cahoots with George, which is what they alleged in opening, that he, somehow, had to do sinister. It just isn`t there. It doesn`t make sense.

POLITAN: So, why did it play out the way it did, Judge Alex? Why is it that he has got to call three times? Why is it that he sees a human skull? Everyone in the world is looking for this little girl who lives around the corner and he just leaves it there?

FERRER: The police officer drops the ball. Not all police officers, but that one -- there`s one in particular who was fired.


FERRER: And he`s the one who shows up. He calls twice. On the third time, the officer shows up. The officer gets out of the patrol car, walks down into the ditch, to the edge of the water, because the area is flooded, looks left and right, and then climbs back into his car because he`s not going into that wet area to look at the skull --

POLITAN: Oh, yes. He slipped on the mud, I think.

FERRER: On his way up, he slips in the mud and then just unloads on Kronk because Kronk dragged them out there, and he slipped in the mud and dirtied his uniform. He said (INAUDIBLE) 30 minutes. That`s why Kronk doesn`t call back again for six months. That`s why he goes by and I can`t believe. The skull is still here.


FERRER: He never gets close to it until that point.

POLITAN: And Roy Kronk discovers the remains, but the prosecutors don`t call him. Does it look -- is there a perception in the courtroom now that the prosecutors were trying to hide this guy because the story is a little weird?

FERRER: Let me tell you something about that, though. There`s a Supreme Court case in Florida that says, because they didn`t call him, the defense can get up and say, they didn`t call him. We had to call him to show you this evidence. What were they trying to hide? It`s a bad case. I completely disagree with it. I completely disagree.

POLITAN: But don`t use it.

FERRER: But they won`t. I don`t even know if they know about it.

EIGLARSH: They`re going to argue it. And it`s not just on that witness. Every witness they have to recall, they`re going to say, we could have sat there and not called any witnesses, and then, would you have gotten the truth? Is that what this case is really about, the truth? Why did we have to call witnesses?

The constitution doesn`t require it. We did it. What are they trying to hide? What else are they trying to hide? That`s what you`re going to hear, but hopefully, from the defense if they`re doing a competent job.

POLITAN: Yes, but they already told us that Roy Kronk had these bones. I mean, talking about speaking the truth. So, is there still an opportunity for them to bring someone in who says Roy Kronk could have hid these things?

FERRER: I can`t imagine that.

POLITAN: And makes --

FERRER: I think, at this point, their best hope is to rely on the fact that he said he picked up the bag and he moved the skull with the stick. That`s probably the best that they can hope for. But the reason that the prosecution did not call him is because then they would have offered him up to the defense on cross examination. Once the defense made clear what they were going to do with Kronk in opening, prosecution just said, you know what --

POLITAN: Cross-examination for the folks at home. Cross-examination, that`s when you can ask leading questions. So, the lawyers put words in your mouth, right?

EIGLARSH: Exactly. And the filet mignon on this case was what Kronk did with the remains that could have accounted for the tape being on the skull. Everything else that Cheney Mason did today, in my opinion, was fat on the end of the steak. It undermined the filet mignon.

POLITAN: All right, guys. Lot more to talk about. Coming up, did Cindy Anthony lie on the stand about her chloroform searches to cover up for her daughter, Casey? You`re watching DR. DREW. I`m Vinnie Politan. Back after this.


BAEZ: Do you recall in March of 2008, you doing any types of searches for any items that might include chloroform?

ANTHONY: Yes. Well, I started looking at chlorophyll, and then, that prompted me to look up chloroform.



POLITAN: Welcome back. I`m Vinnie Politan live from Orlando sitting in for Dr. Drew. Tonight, the prosecution says they will call two more witnesses, Cindy Anthony`s old co-workers. Now, will they be able to prove that she lied about searching for chloroform on the family computer? Last week, we were all astounded when Cindy took the stand and claimed she, not Casey, searched for the term "chloroform." Take a look.


LINDA DRANE BURDICK, PROSECUTOR: Did you input the words into the Google search engine "how to make chloroform?"

ANTHONY: I don`t recall putting in "how to make chloroform," but I did Google search "chloroform," and we talked about it in my deposition.

BURDICK: Were you on that website 84 times?

ANTHONY: I was on it several times.

BURDICK: Were you on that website 84 times?

ANTHONY: I don`t know. I don`t know.

BURDICK: Did you do 84 searches for the effects of chlorophyll on your animals?

ANTHONY: I didn`t do 84 searches of anything.


POLITAN: All right. Cindy was working full time back then, and the prosecution hammered her on the stand. Was she at work or did she go home without clocking out?


BURDICK: Were you home on March 17th of 2008 between 1:43 and 1:55 p.m.?

ANTHONY: If those computer entries were made, then I made them.

BURDICK: If you wanted to, you could go and find out if, in fact, you left work on March 17th of 2008, even though, your records reflect that you didn`t?

ANTHONY: No, I don`t think so.

BURDICK: They won`t let you in the door?

ANTHONY: No, that`s not the reason. The reason is because I had a working password, and I was an employee and only I would know from my e- mails what time I left and no one had a password to my e-mails and I`m sure all of those things have been lost by now.


POLITAN: So, is Cindy Anthony lying to save her daughter, Casey? Yesterday, the prosecution filed a disclosure for two rebuttal witnesses. They`ll take the stand one the defense rest. They are two employees from the health services company. Gentiva, a senior VP and general counsel at the company and a lead technical specialist.

We welcome back our two guests. Judge Alex Ferrer, host of the syndicated TV show, "Judge Alex," and criminal defense attorney, Mark Eiglarsh. OK. How about it? I mean, we`re looking ahead now to the rebuttal case which will happen right after the defense case. Can these women -- not these women but these folks from Gentiva come into court and prove that Cindy Anthony lied on the stand?

EIGLARSH: Absolutely, and boy, do I hope so. I have nothing against either of the Anthonys. Their behavior I take exception to as to what went on in court. But, they lost their granddaughter. I appreciate that. But coming into a courtroom and committing what I think was a gross miscarriage of justice by lying to save the daughter, while some people can appreciate, they understand, it`s fundamentally wrong, and I`m so pleased that they`ve listed these witnesses.

POLITAN: Judge Alex, I mean, I think he alluded to something called perjury, right?

FERRER: Yes, absolutely. If the prosecution wants to pursue perjury charges, they certainly can.

POLITAN: I hope they don`t. My goodness.

FERRER: I`ll tell you, the number of times I`ve seen people lie on the stand, and I don`t think I ever, in 10 years on the critical court bench of Miami, saw the prosecution pursue a perjury charge. The thing is they can. They can. I totally understand why she`s doing that. I mean, it`s her child, and she`s already lost a granddaughter, and she doesn`t want to lose a daughter. Certainly like Mark said, I don`t condone it, but I understand it.


POLITAN: Doesn`t the jury understand it, and with these rebuttal witnesses, you can put some proof on the table that she may not have been 100 percent honest on the stand. But don`t you think the jury gets it? Because we`re all kind of feeling like, you know, she wasn`t 100 percent truthful about it, but we understand why. Won`t the jury do the same thing and maybe cut her a break?

EIGLARSH: Here`s what I get. We`re not on the jury. And there`s a reason why we`re not on the jury. We have followed this case. We know too much.

POLITAN: And we`re don`t live in, you know, this part of Florida either.

EIGLARSH: That`s a good point, Vinnie.

FERRER: That`s a good point.

EIGLARSH: The other thing is, you`ve got -- I was in the courtroom. I was watching. Juror number nine, which I`ve got to talk about, this guy is taking almost as many notes as the court reporter. He`s writing everything down ferociously. The ones in the front are just kind of looking. If anyone is going to get it, I think it`s the ones in the front.

We`re kind of looking, seeing everything, knowing that your memory doesn`t get better with age like wine like she alleged. I mean, that was a magical moment for the prosecution.

POLITAN: I like the jurors that don`t take notes, and this is why. I know it`s a complicated case. I come from New Jersey where I practice law, they weren`t allowed to take notes, and I just found they paid closer attention. It`s like when I was in class. I never took notes in class. Did you take notes in law school?


FERRER: He copied the notes from the guy next to him.

POLITAN: Exactly.

FERRER: I agree with you, because --


FERRER: Sometimes, when a juror is taking notes, they miss the very next thing, and in a case, especially a case like this where you`re getting hit with evidence all the time, the very next thing you miss might be the crucial piece of evidence in the case. But as far as her memory is concerned, her memory is unbelievable. She talked about the fact when they asked her neck breaking, did you search for neck breaking?

She said, no, but I remember a pop-up ad that talked about skateboarding. I remember that. I don`t remember a pop-up ad from my computer yesterday. You`re going to tell me that she remembers a pop-up ad from two years ago that popped up on her computer?

POLITAN: What is Cindy Anthony now? Is Cindy Anthony a prosecution witness or defense witness?

EIGLARSH: Always has been a defense witness. It only takes one juror, just one, to think, you know what? They didn`t contradict what she had to say yet. And so, maybe, she did do the chloroform searches like she alleged. I don`t buy it. It takes one.

You`re looking for one to hang this jury up, so when you do retry this case, you can do it right the first time and alleged that this wasn`t about molestation, it was about a tragic accident. You kind of just put it out there and argue reasonable doubt like they should have from the start.

FERRER: If they hang the jury in this case, the retrial will be completely different. There`s no way the defense -- there`s no way the defense makes the same mistake twice.

POLITAN: All right. Will the same lawyers be doing it?

FERRER: Probably not.

POLITAN: For Cindy Anthony, do you think that she`s a defense witness also? Because don`t forget the 911 call. This case starts because Cindy Anthony confronts her daughter, Casey.

FERRER: She wasn`t then. She wasn`t a defense witness before there was ever a defense. She didn`t know what was going on with her daughter.


POLITAN: You guys don`t believe that she wants to find, she wants some justice here for her granddaughter?

FERRER: I believe that she --

POLITAN: But that justice is not being death for her daughter --

EIGLARSH: It`s not about justice, whether they prove the case or not. And I think that --

POLITAN: But what does she want?


FERRER: This is a mother that doesn`t want to lose her daughter.

EIGLARSH: And she wants two words as opposed to one. She wants not guilty.

POLITAN: You think she wants Casey to walk out of that courtroom?

EIGLARSH: One hundred percent, and she showed that she`s willing to do whatever it takes to get there.


POLITAN: What she was doing with the chloroform search went to the first charge, went to first-degree which impacts the death penalty. I know that she doesn`t want her daughter on death row.

FERRER: Do you think she wants her daughter to do life?

POLITAN: I don`t know about life.

FERRER: Do you think she wants to do 30 years? Do you think she wants her daughter to leave prison when she`s 56 years old?

POLITAN: I think she may very well want that.

FERRER: I don`t think so.

EIGLARSH: Vinnie, with all due respect, I think you drank a big cup of gullible tonight. You don`t think Cindy is willing to lie for her daughter?

POLITAN: You don`t think Cindy thinks about what happened to her granddaughter, Caylee? How she was tossed in the woods and --

EIGLARSH: And then, she made a decision. There comes a time where there`s a fork in the road, and she went down that path. For that, she should be prosecuted. I do.

FERRER: It`s not a question of whether we think she should be prosecuted. It`s a question of whether a mother wants to lose her daughter and granddaughter and she doesn`t.

EIGLARSH: That`s an empty table.

FERRER: She`ll deal with her issues, but she wants her out.

POLITAN: Great job tonight, guys. Mark Eiglarsh, Judge Alex.

You know, the Anthony trial is in the home stretch now. What does our Dr. Drew juror see from inside the courtroom that we can`t see? That`s next. You`re watching DR. DREW live from the Casey Anthony trial in Orlando, Florida. We`ll be right back.



KRONK: Held the bag out. After like the third shake, the contents of the bag shifted, and I looked down at my feet, and that`s when I discovered the skull that basically at my feet.


POLITAN: I`m Vinnie Politan filling in for Dr. Drew live in Orlando. Now, we`ve been covering every day of the Casey Anthony trial, and our next guest has spent almost as much time inside the courtroom. Rocky Ezzard has witnessed testimony firsthand eight times now, and she`ll be back inside the courtroom tomorrow for trip number nine. Rocky, great to see you.

ROXANNE EZZARD, DR. DREW "JUROR": Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

POLITAN: Tell me this, because you`ve got all of these people at home watching the trial and watching it on television a little bit, but you`ve been inside the courtroom, time number nine. What are you getting? What are you taking away from the experience inside the courtroom that folks are watching on TV might not be getting?

EZZARD: Well, you know, you`re sitting right there with the family, and it`s heart wrenching. It really is. To actually be in the same room, to be in the same elevator with them, and, you know, it`s just seeing the wheels of justice in motion is so interesting, but --

POLITAN: Talk to me about the heart wrench. Who is tugging at your strings? When do you get emotional inside that courtroom? When you see what or hear what?

EZZARD: Well, when I just look at the face of Cindy and George Anthony. And from the very beginning, my heart went out to them. I can`t imagine what they are experiencing right now. I can understand what Cindy Anthony might be trying to do right now. I`m a mother and a mother will die. They will lie. They`ll do anything for their child. It doesn`t matter. And it`s just very hard to see two people go through something like this. Unimaginable.

POLITAN: Today is a tough day for George Anthony. They`ve asked him difficult questions about an alleged affair yet every report we`ve had, people riding in the elevator, these two are leaning on each other. Do you see that relationship inside the courtroom?

EZZARD: I certainly do, Vinnie. It`s like the song, "You and Me against the World," and that`s really what I take from that. And it`s refreshing to see that two people in love going through something like this and supporting one another. It`s a beautiful thing.

POLITAN: You know what happens, in most of these cases with missing children, it breaks people apart, husbands and wives. I`ve seen it so many times. Here, they`ve lost their granddaughter, and it seems it`s bringing them closer together.

EZZARD: Yes, it certainly does. Let`s hope that that continues, because we all know some of the results that can happen after these horrible, horrible things.

POLITAN: What do you gather they want for their daughter? Because you can see them in the courtroom. Do they -- and I think, at one point, we saw Cindy mouth I love you to Casey as she`s walking off the stand, they bring that teddy bear for their granddaughter. What do you think they really want here?

EZZARD: I think they want it all to go away, and that`s not going to happen, but I really don`t know. I`m not them. I`m not in their head. But as I said earlier, you know, we will do anything for our children.

POLITAN: Absolutely.

EZZARD: Anything.

POLITAN: Well, I`m so glad that you came by tonight. I know you`ve got to get to sleep because you`ve got to get up early to get inside of that courtroom. They`re going to lock the doors at 8:30.

EZZARD: This will be number nine for me.

POLITAN: Number nine for you. Rocky, thank you so much.

EZZARD: Thank you.

POLITAN: Appreciate it.

I`m Vinnie Politan for Dr. Drew. We`ll see you tomorrow night live from Orlando right here from the Casey Anthony trial.