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Casey Anthony Preparing for Freedom; Debt Ceiling Battle Continues

Aired July 11, 2011 - 22:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.

We begin "Keeping Them Honest" with a four-page pledge that a conservative group has asked all the Republican presidential candidates to sign. It's called the Marriage Vow. And candidates who sign it promise to fight against same-sex marriage, women in combat, quickie divorces, pornography, and Sharia law, among other things.

The man behind the pledge this is Bob Vander Plaats. That's him. He runs a group called the Family Leader. And he's a major force in conservative presidential politics in Iowa.

Now, two Republican candidates for president, Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum, were quick to sign the pledge. But since this weekend and today, they have had to defend that decision because of something else written into it, something which is factually incorrect and shows a gross misunderstanding of American history.

The problem passage is right on the first page of the pledge in the preamble. It reads -- quote -- "Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families. Yet, sadly, a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA's first African-American president."

The implication, that African-American kids were better off in their home lives under slavery than kids today because they had a mother and father and a two-parent household. That is simply incorrect.

There's also an implied notion that somehow this is some way connected to President Obama's election. But ignoring that, let's just look at history. We checked with Columbia University's Eric Foner, perhaps the preeminent historian of the era. He tells us that slaves had no legal right to marry. Slave families had no legal existence under slavery. Families were often divided. Male slaves were particularly valued and so they were often separated from their children, sold, traded to others, sent away.

There were no family rights whatsoever. The marriage pledge actually has a footnote citing the source for this statement, but it turns out one of the authors of the study cited in the pledge in that footnote was contacted by "Forbes" magazine and said the claim about mothers and fathers under slavery is just wrong, a serious error. Well, with outrage over the incorrect version of history and the pledge growing, the organization behind the pledge has removed the entire paragraph mentioning slavery. But if you think they admitted a mistake, you would be mistaken.

A spokeswoman for the Family Leader, Vander Plaats' organization, tells Politico -- quote -- "We agree that the statement referencing children born into slavery can be misconstrued and such misconstruction can detract from the core message of the Marriage Vow."

She goes on to say: "It was not meant to be racist or anything. It was just a fact that back in the days of slavery, there was usually a husband and a wife. We were not saying at all that things are better for African-American children in slavery days than today."

But "Keeping Them Honest," the first part of her statement is a classic non-apology. We're sorry if you read it wrong. They say they're only removing it because it can be misconstrued not because it's wrong, which it is. She then restates the incorrect statement that -- quote -- "In the days of slavery there was usually a husband and wife."

So what do the candidates who signed this pledge now say? Well, we asked both Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum to come on tonight to explain. They both declined. A Santorum spokesman telling CNN he was pleased to sign the pledge, although he agreed with the group's decision to remove that whole slavery clause.

A Bachmann spokeswoman meantime said -- quote -- "In no uncertain terms does, Congresswoman Bachmann believes that slavery was horrible and economic slavery is also horrible." She tried to suggest the congresswoman only agreed with part of what she signed, telling Politico she -- quote -- "stands behind the candidate vow which makes absolutely no reference to slavery." That's true. The 14-point candidate vow does not make reference to slavery.

But "Keeping Them Honest," take a look at page one of this four- page pledge. There's only four pages of this and the slavery paragraph is the very first bullet point on the entire document. It's not like you can't miss it.

Now, clearly, presidential candidates are busy people. They don't always have time to sleep, let alone to read the fine print of pledges. But this wasn't fine print. And presidential candidates do have staffers who should read these kind of things. Now, this is not the first time that Michele Bachmann has got caught distorting the facts of history and slavery.


REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know there was slavery that was still tolerated when the nation began. We know that was an evil. And it was a scourge and a blot and a stain upon our history. But we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States. And I think it is high time that we recognize the contribution of our forbearers who worked tirelessly, men like John Quincy Adams, who would not rest until slavery was extinguished in the country.


COOPER: So, it's just not true. Many of the founding fathers sought to preserve slavery. Others such as Thomas Jefferson were ambivalent, nonetheless owned many slaves. George Washington owned hundreds of slaves.

The one person Ms. Bachmann singles out for praise there was John Quincy Adams, who did fight tirelessly to end slavery, but he wasn't a founding father. When they signed the Declaration of Independence, he was just 8 years old.

Joining me now, Democratic strategist Cornell Belcher. He was a pollster for the Obama campaign in 2008 and soon to be working for the campaign again, also Erick Erickson, editor in chief of

So, Cornell, what do you make of this pledge, in particular the slavery part which is in the preamble? Do you think it's possible that Santorum or Bachmann or their people didn't actually even see that? How do you explain them agreeing with this?

CORNELL BELCHER, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN POLLSTER: I have to assume that they're people read it.

And it's reprehensible. The underlying assertion here is that there was some redeeming quality that went along with the institution of slavery. That's asinine. And for them to play -- we can't play this double standard.

Just like we would shout down anyone who said there was a redeeming quality associated with Nazism, we can't play this double standard. We should shout these people down and look at them as what they are. That's fringe.

COOPER: Erick, just historically, it's just not true, the idea that there were these happy families of mothers and fathers in two- person households in slave times. Males would be traded off, sold off. It's kind of ridiculous.

ERICK ERICKSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, REDSTATE.COM: Right. Yes, you're right. And I'm really shocked by that in there.

Now, I will say that having talked to people who were familiar with the pledge, that more likely than not, the candidate didn't see that. There were two pages, this being on one page, the actual candidate pledge that the candidate signed being a separate page.

You know, I understand what they were trying, apparently to say was not that it was a good thing, just that children born in 1860 of slaves had a better chance of being with a two-parent family growing up than those born in the '60s. And for the life of me, I'm scratching my head, number one, how they would know that and number two why they would think that this would be worth putting into a pledge.


COOPER: Right, because even the footnote that they select, one of the authors of the document that they footnote just says this is a serious error, that this is just not true.

But, Erick, do you really think it's possible -- I mean, I understand Bachmann not having time to read the full four pages of document, but wouldn't her staffers read that?


ERICKSON: Yes, see, this is the point. I have been in campaigns for more than a decade and I have seen these pledges go through lots of campaigns and usually you have a menial staffer, typically a college intern, who they get this in. They look, oh, this is from this group. This group is on the list, let's sign their pledge and get it in. And they don't stop to read this.

And this trips up Democrats and Republicans. The problem though for the Bachmann campaign is they're just now taking off. A new poll out shows that they're ahead in Iowa. These little trip-ups, typically that happened before they are taken as a serious candidate. They are just trying to build grassroots support. They come back to bite them and this one will leave a big bite mark.

COOPER: Is that a valid excuse, Cornell, that maybe just some staffer read it or that she didn't read the whole thing?

BELCHER: I find that mind-boggling. Such a statement would scream out to you as just incredibly wrong that you cannot -- I don't care -- if you are a first-year student in high school and you read that statement, that's got to send up some alarms to you that says wait a minute, we can't sign this sort of thing.

And particularly not so much probably in the Republican primary, but if she does get into the general election, this sort of thing with independent voters just kills you dead. It's a nonstarter because it's such a fringe sort of way of thinking about things.

COOPER: It's also interesting, Cornell, that...


ERICKSON: Well, I would say that's probably why they didn't look -- why I would say they probably didn't look at it. Because I agree with you. Had I read something like this or any of the Republicans I talked to, they would have said, what the heck is this? So I just think the odds go up someone wasn't paying attention when they were doing their job. COOPER: It's interesting, Cornell, though, because even in the explanation that this group has now put out, where they retracted it, A, they did the classic, well, this can be -- I'm sorry if you misconstrued this. They're not saying it's wrong. And they actually went on to say, you know, it's just a fact that there was usually a husband and a wife, even though under slavery there were no legal marriages.

BELCHER: Well, there was not a husband and wife because they didn't recognize the legality of the union. It's absurd.

And for them to sort of backtrack on it, look, they play a double standard with slavery in a way that to me is offensive. Again, you know, if this sort of thing was said about Nazi Germany and to the Jewish people that was going on -- what was going on in Nazi Germany, everyone would shout them down and sort of pin them at fringe.

I'm not going to let them of the hook. I'm not going to let them play a double standard here. This is just as offensive. And anyone who is going down this patter and going down this line of thinking, they disqualify themselves from ever wanting to be leader of a country like the United States of America.

COOPER: It just seems to me that just in this day in age, we should not be comparing things to slavery or to Nazi Germany. Those are like the two easiest things to compare things to, and it seems to undercut the reality of what -- the reality of slavery and the reality of Nazi Germany when you compare other things to those things. Things can be terrible. You don't have to compare them to the horrors of slavery and Nazi Germany.


BELCHER: Well, I wasn't comparing them.


COOPER: Sorry.

ERICKSON: We have got on the Internet now, they call it Godwin's law, that the first person to make the Nazi comparison loses the argument. We may have to do a comparison in politics as well. The first person to jump to the slavery comparison loses the argument.

BELCHER: I think that's right. I think it's well over time for that to happen in this country, because we can't play this double standard. It's a great evil and you cannot find anything redeeming about the evil that was slavery.

COOPER: And when you compare other things that are happening now to it, it just takes away from the reality of what did happen. And I think, Erick, you're right, it weakens your argument.

Erick Erickson, thanks for your time, Cornell Belcher as well.

BELCHER: Thank you. ERICKSON: Thank you.

COOPER: Well, let us know what you think. We're on Facebook. You can follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper. I will be tweeting tonight.

Up next, President Obama saying it's time to get serious about a budget deal. The Republicans say not if it includes taxes. Some Democrats say not if it includes Medicare. Nothing really at stake except, I don't know, the global economy and maybe your job -- details on that next.

And later, an update from Syria, where thugs apparently with support of the government stormed the U.S. Embassy in Damascus, attacking the embassy. We will have late reaction from Secretary of State Clinton.

Plus, what happened with Casey Anthony's mom tried to visit her in jail and what we have learned about how Casey will be released.

But, first, let's check in with Isha Sesay -- Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, she was kidnapped at age 11 and held captive for 18 years, raped again and again, forced to bear two children. Now Jaycee Dugard is speaking out. Her story and Dr. Drew Pinsky with insight into how she endured and how she will do in the years ahead -- when 360 continues.


COOPER: "Raw Politics" tonight: just 22 bargaining days until the U.S. Treasury runs out of money to pay bills and throwing the country into default and the economy in greater crisis.

President Obama and congressional leaders met for a second straight day trying to hammer out a deficit reduction deal. Republicans have said without such a deal they won't allow vote to allow more borrowing to raise the debt ceiling. Now, bear in mind lawmakers have always griped, but they have never failed to do that ever. They will talk again tomorrow.

Today, the president called for action.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have been hearing from my Republican friends for quite some time that it is a moral imperative for us to tackle our debt and our deficits in a serious way.

I have been hearing from them that this is one of the things that's creating uncertainty and holding back investment on the part of the business community.

And so, what I have said to them is, "Let's go."


COOPER: Unclear though whether he can deliver the left wing of his own party. Unclear also whether the Tea Party Republicans will sign on to any deal with any revenue increasers beyond selling government property and other fairly minor measures. House Speaker Boehner, who seemed receptive to a grand compromise which might have included tax concession from Republicans in exchange for cost savings in Medicare and Social Security from the White House, backed away on Saturday. Today he said, no tax increases or no deal.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The American people will not accept and the House cannot pass a bill that raises taxes on job creators. The House can only pass a debt limit bill that includes spending cuts larger than the hike in the debt limit as well as real restraints on future spending.


COOPER: His colleague Majority Leader Erick Cantor standing firm too, holding up a quote from President Obama back in 2009 about not raising taxes during a recession.

Now, here's what the president said back then in 2009 to NBC's Chuck Todd in response to a voter's question.


OBAMA: First of all, he's right. Normally, you don't raise taxes in a recession, which is why we haven't and why we have instead cut taxes. So I guess what I would say to Scott is, his economics are right. You don't raise taxes in a recession. We haven't raised taxes in a recession.


COOPER: Now, in fact the stimulus was about one-third tax cuts. So in fairness he did not raise taxes. He and Congress later passing a payroll tax holiday that is in effect right now. A year later he and Congress did approve tax breaks to help employers hire more people.

Now, you can decide for yourself whether that's a tax cut or the kind of wasteful spending through the tax code the president says he's now against when it comes to corporate jets. In any case, here's how Mr. Obama today reconciled that 2009 statement with his current position on taxes.


OBAMA: I want to be crystal clear: Nobody has talked about increasing taxes now, nobody has talked about increases -- increasing taxes next year.

We're talking about potentially 2013 and the out years. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The question is what will the economy look like then? The answer to depends heavily on what happens now.

Here to talk about it, chief political analyst Gloria Borger and David Walker, former head of the Government Accountability Office. Currently he's president and CEO of the Comeback America Initiative.

David, is there any case to be raised for not raising the debt ceiling?

DAVID WALKER, FORMER UNITED STATES COMPTROLLER GENERAL: No, there really isn't. We have to raise the debt ceiling because the fact is we don't know what the markets would do, what would to happen to the stock markets, what would to happen to the interest rates.

And for every 1 percent or 100 basis point increase in interest rates, it's $150 billion a year on our total debt.

COOPER: So how do you see the debate that is happening now? What's your take on it?

WALKER: Well, both sides have agreed that they're going to raised the debt ceiling limit, but it looks like it's going to be a smaller deal rather than a bigger deal because the Republicans don't want to do anything that could even be called remotely a tax increase.

I think after the 2012 elections, we will get comprehensive tax reform that will broaden the base, lower rates and generate more revenues, among other things, along with starting to deal with entitlement reforms.

But I think right now, we're going to get a smaller deal and kick the can down the road with regard to the tough stuff.

COOPER: Gloria, politically, is that what it seems like, a smaller deal?


And I think if you sort of step back for a moment and take a look at this it seems to me really to be a defining moment for the Republican Party here. The base of this party is conservative and it's anti-tax. And you had the House speaker, a Republican, the president of the United States, sitting down and believing that they could try to cut a huge deal that would actually go a long way towards solving the deficit problem.

But John Boehner, the speaker, took that back to his conservative Republicans in the House, which I believe represent the base of the party, and they said, absolutely no way, because 230 of those Republicans in the House have taken a no-tax pledge, no-new-tax pledges and they're going to stick by it. And I think things may change after the next election, but as for now, the Republican Party is stuck and they can't even accept a good deal. The president was offering them, you know, a very, very good deal here, $3 in spending cuts for every dollar of tax increases.

WALKER: Well, John Boehner is correct that the base of the Republican Party will not support any type of tax increases, even if it's eliminating tax expenditures where there can be a bipartisan agreement. He's wrong to say the American people won't. He's just wrong.

And right now the president has got the high ground because he's basically saying, let's go for a long-term deal. I will put Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security on the table. All you need to do is to put tax expenditures on the table.

By the way, we have the lowest revenues as a percentage of GDP in decades. It's less than 16 percent. Nonetheless, we are where we are and I think both parties are going to have to go to the electorate in 2012.

COOPER: But can you get a compromise without some sort of tax -- increasing revenues somehow?

WALKER: I can come up with $2 trillion to $3 trillion worth of deficit reduction without any tax increases, OK?


WALKER: Absolutely.


BORGER: You know, Anderson, I was talking to a senior White House adviser today, for example, who suggested that perhaps they could get a deal, a smaller deal of closing some of these tax loopholes and extending the payroll tax holiday for a certain period of time, so there would be no net tax increase, so a little bit of trickery, but maybe they could do it that way.

COOPER: Just politically, Gloria, how does this play out, do you think? Obviously we have this presidential election coming up. David is saying Obama seems like perceived as taking the high ground. Clearly he's interested in getting independents on board. He's lost a lot of independent support over the years. How does this play for both sides?


BORGER: Well, I think the president as you point out is clearly talking to independent voters. Independent voters care about the deficit and they also want Washington to work together, which is what we heard the president talk about an awful lot today in his press conference.

It kind of reminded me a little bit of Bill Clinton there. In the end, I think they all know they have to get something done or they will all suffer. Right now, I think the Republicans are kind of up against the wall here because the president looks like the adult. He's put something on the table.

I'm not sure that he have could have sold it to his own part, but he put it on the table, so it's up to the Republicans to come back and he told them today to go home, do your homework and tell me how we're going to make up the rest of this money we have got to raise without those revenues. So they're on the spot.

COOPER: Do you think this goes to August 2 or do you think this will be done sooner, David?

WALKER: Well, I think they can do it before August 2. It depends upon how big a deal they're trying to do. You have to turn this into legislative language and frankly you have to sell it to the caucuses. They will not take a fait accompli deal. And that is one of the reasons why Congress has to stay in session until a deal is done and until there's agreement.

BORGER: And complicating all of this, Anderson, is the fact that you have got Republican presidential candidates out there saying don't raise the debt limit. Tim Pawlenty said he was hoping and praying that they would vote against raising the debt limit, so that plays into the Republican congressional discussions as well.

COOPER: Never easy to work out this stuff in the midst of a election year?

WALKER: You have to work it out. The stakes are too high. Quite frankly anybody who says -- I don't care who they are, who says they will vote against the debt ceiling increase irrespective of the deal is irresponsible.

COOPER: David Walker, appreciate it. It's always good to have you on, Gloria Borger as well. Thank you very much.


COOPER: Coming up, mobs attacking the U.S. Embassy in Syria. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton tonight lashing out at Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. We will tell you what she has said and have the latest on the attack.

Also ahead, Casey Anthony will be a free woman in just six days after the Corrections Department recalculated her release -- details on that, plus her refusal to allow a jailhouse visit from her mom, Cindy Anthony -- the latest from Orlando ahead.


COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" tonight: Casey Anthony will be let out of jail just six days from now. You probably know that. The trial may be over, but the drama continues.

After sentencing, the Orange County Corrections Department released a statement changing her release date by a few days. The new release date is Sunday, July 17. Casey's mother, Cindy Anthony, tried to visit her daughter in jail on Friday, but Casey declined the request.

She didn't want her mom visiting her. So we know that Casey will be released in less than a week and now we are going to news details about how she will be released.

Gary Tuchman joins us live from Orlando.

Gary, what have you learned?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this is the Orange County jail right behind me. This is where Casey Anthony has been for the last two years and 11 months.

And she will be released as early as 12:01 a.m. Eastern time Sunday. That's five days and 90 minutes from now. But the arrangements are very secret. The secretness of it reminds me of when I covered mafia trials in the past. John Gotti, they wouldn't tell us anything about when he would come into the court or come out of the court. And that's the way it is.

They want to maintain her security, so they're being very secretive. There was a rumor that she wasn't here anymore in this jail, that she was transferred to another jail to kind of fool everyone who would be waiting for her. We know she's here because a security officer just about an hour ago says she's still inside and she is very happy. That's not a big surprise, obviously.

But the thought is that she will eventually before Sunday be transferred to another jail facility and then released from there. And then we don't know at this point where she will be going.

COOPER: Do we know anything about why she declined a visit from her mom? I know they haven't had contact in several years.

TUCHMAN: It's interesting. During the trial, Anderson, we all saw the videos of her talking to her parents while she was under arrest.

She hasn't had her parents in this jail since August of 2008. That's almost three years. Last week, Cindy Anthony came to this jail, said she wanted to visit her daughter, signed in for a request. Her daughter turned down the request, didn't want to see her mother.

COOPER: And what about -- what are George and Cindy Anthony doing now? Are they still in Orlando?

TUCHMAN: Yes. According to George and Cindy Anthony's attorney, they are still in Orlando. There were some reports that they were at a resort in the Florida Panhandle. He said that's not true whatsoever. They're in Orlando. He has told me they have received death threats and hate mail and we have also heard that, Anderson, from a juror I talked to who wanted to remain anonymous today, told me over the telephone that he too has received death threats and hate mail.

So, the Anthonys not the only one involved with this trial who have received that type of mail.

COOPER: We got a Text 360 question from a viewer in Southeast Pennsylvania. They ask, do you have information about the -- quote, unquote -- "inflammatory video" the judge is considering releasing?

TUCHMAN: That's right. Judge Belvin Perry is considering releasing a video that wasn't allowed to be played during the trial. He was afraid to release it before the trial, thinking it could be inflammatory towards Casey's defense.

And what the video shows is her doubling over and hyperventilating in jail when she's told that Caylee's body had been found. Now, the reason that could been inflammatory is now that we know the defense, she says, her attorneys say that her child drowned. She knew her child was dead, so why would she hyperventilate and double over when she's told that her child has been found?

So, it may be released. The judge will make that decision.

COOPER: All right, Gary, appreciate it. Thanks.

A lot more happening tonight Isha Sesay is following with a 360 bulletin -- Isha.

SESAY: Anderson, U.S. State Department says Syrian state-run TV is inciting mobs to attack the U.S. embassy today in Damascus. About 300 people surrounded the building, some scaling walls, breaking windows and using spray paint. No one was hurt.

In Washington, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton blasted Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.


HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: From our perspective, he has lost legitimacy. He has failed to deliver on the promises he's made. He has sought and accepted aid from the Iranians as to how to repress his own people.

And there's a laundry list of actions that have been, certainly, concerning and should raise the -- the issue with not only his behavior, but those who are supporting him in the international community. And, you know, we would like to see even more countries speaking out as forcefully as we have.


SESAY: Tonight, there were new allegations against Rupert Murdoch's media empire. There are claims that the tabloid "The Sun" improperly obtained personal information years ago about former prime minister Gordon Brown's seriously ill son and published a story about him. Brown says he's shocked by the allegations and that the matter is in police hands.

Now, this comes a day after "The News of the World," another Murdoch tabloid, sold its last issue. It shut down amid accusations that its reporters illegally listened to voice mails of terrorist victims, politicians and celebrities.

And Anderson, happier news tied to a British power couple. Victoria and David Beckham are the proud new parents of a baby girl named -- wait for it -- Harper Seven. A close friend of the Beckhams told "The Daily Mail" newspaper that Seven was picked because it's a lucky number and the baby was born just after 7 a.m. on the seventh month. I'll just point out seven was also dad jersey number when he played soccer in England.

COOPER: That's a cool name. I like it.

SESAY: I don't know for sure -- I don't how I'd feel if I found out I was named after my dad's jersey.

COOPER: Who am I to talk about names, because I have the name of a 18th century law firm?

SESAY: Dignified, it matches the gray hair.

COOPER: Well, I had nothing to do with it.

All right. Time for "The Shot," tonight courtesy of Marine Sergeant Scott Moore, who's stationed in Afghanistan. He posted a video on YouTube asking Mila Kunis from "That '70s Show," "Black Swan," to go to a Marine Corps dance with him. Take a look.


SGT. SCOTT MOORE, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Hi, Mila. I'm Sergeant Moore, but you can call me Scott. I just wanted to take a moment out of my day to invite you to the Marine Corps Ball on November 18 in Greenville, North Carolina, with yours truly. So take a second, think about it and get back to me. All right. Bye now.


COOPER: Mila is out promoting her new movie with Justin Timberlake, and with a little prompting from her co-star, she has agreed to go. How cool is that?

SESAY: That is very cool, but only a Marine could pull that off. It has to be said. There's a lot of swagger going on.

COOPER: I will say I met her recently, and she's incredibly cool. She's really nice, and she's actually a big news viewer. But I think it's so cool that she agreed to do that. That's really planning ahead on his part. I think it was very clever of him.

SESAY: And there are men all over the country now sitting in front of their Web cams making their videos, about to send them out.

COOPER: Yes. No doubt about that.

SESAY: Don't do it.

COOPER: Isha, thanks. A lot more to come on the program tonight. Back to the serious stuff next. Did you see the interview with kidnapping victim Jaycee Dugard? Well, in her own wards tonight, you're going to hear what she faced for 18 years, most of it in a backyard prison. It's unbelievable. And how she says you can triumph over tragedy. She's really inspiring. Dr. Drew Pinsky also joins us to look at how her therapy is going.

And later, "The RidicuList." Tonight, all you Octomom haters, you land on our "RidicuList." Stop the hating. Sure she's having trouble keeping her 14 kids in line, but who wouldn't? We'll explain ahead.


COOPER: Well, kidnapping victim Jaycee Dugard is breaking her silence. Tomorrow her new memoir, "A Stolen Life," goes on sale nationwide. And she shared some of her story last night in an interview with Diane Sawyer of ABC News. It was really a remarkable two-hour special.

Jaycee was 11 years old in 1991 when she was kidnapped. She walked to her school bus stop near her home in South Lake Tahoe in California. For 18 years she was trapped just 120 miles away from her home in this man's backyard near San Francisco. Philip Garrido is the name. Convicted sex offender. Repeatedly he abused her, raped her, fathered Jaycee's two daughters. The first baby was born when Jaycee was just 14 years old. Those kids are now 13 and 16.

Jaycee, along with her kids, were rescued in August of 2009. Now, last month, Philip Garrido was sentenced to 431 years in prison after pleading guilty to kidnapping and sexual assault charges. His wife, Nancy -- that's here there -- got 36 years in prison for her role in the crime.

Jaycee is now 31 years old and starting her life over. She wants people to know there is triumph over tragedy, but the memories of what happened to her, well, they're not easy to forget, of course.

Here's what Jaycee Dugard told ABC's Diane Sawyer in her own words.


JAYCEE DUGARD, KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: There was not a day that I didn't cry. I felt like they would never, ever be a day when I wouldn't cry again. And then after a while, I told myself, "I can't cry any more."

DIANE SAWYER, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: What's the most haunting memory?

DUGARD: That lock, hearing the lock. I know I said that earlier, but, for some reason that -- and the bed -- it was a squeaky bed. A squeaky pull-out bed. I guess the sounds. It's weird what sticks in your head, but sounds.


COOPER: For 18 years, Jaycee's mom never gave up hope. Jaycee refuses to be angry about the kidnapping and abuse. Her mom doesn't feel the same way. Here's more of the interview from ABC News.


DUGARD: I don't feel like I have this rage inside of me that's building.

SAWYER: Why not? How can you not?

DUGARD: I refuse to let him have that. He can't have me.

SAWYER: You mean if you felt rage it would mean he had...


TERRY PROBYN, JAYCEE'S MOTHER: I think I have enough hate in my heart for the both of us. I hate that he took her life away.

DUGARD: And that makes me sad.

PROBYN: I'm sorry, baby. He stole your childhood and your adolescence. He stole high school proms and pictures and memories and...

DUGARD: But he didn't get all of me.



COOPER: "He didn't get all of me." That was Jaycee Dugard in her own words. A remarkable story of survival. She's working with a clinical psychologist. They talk about those lost 18 years and her future.

Joining me now to talk about the therapy is Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN's "DR. DREW."

In this interview she seems healthy. So incredibly well adjusted it's amazing to me that, given everything that she's been through, that she was able to survive.

PINSKY: It's remarkable when you hear about the fallacious experience and yet, you see before you a young lady who seems to be able to experience gratitude and joy. It's hard to understand that. And as much as anything else, that's a sign of how resilient this young woman, herself, actually is. I can't say that any person would necessarily be as resilient as she clearly is.

COOPER: I mean, she -- for years, essentially, she was in solitary confinement. Not allowed to go outside. It wasn't until the birth of her second child that she was actually even allowed to go be outdoors. She talked in her interview about doing what she needed to survive, to stay sane. I want to play that.


SAWYER: How did you stay sane?

DUGARD: I don't know. I was still alive. There was still -- there was still hope. Still hope.

SAWYER: I'm trying to imagine how you are coping. I'm trying to imagine.

DUGARD: I don't know. I can't imagine being beaten to death, you know? But and you can't imagine being kidnapped and raped, you know, so, it's just -- you just do what you have to do to survive.


COOPER: It's always interesting to me the strategies, the psychological strategies that people use to get through terribly traumatic experiences. How do people survive?

PINSKY: Well, usually, people deploy a strategy we call dissociation, which is actually a relative of death-feigning behaviors, something that we're used to thinking about in other mammalian systems like playing possum. It's literally developing a passivity, a learned helplessness, whereby in that biological state, you sort of disconnect from your feelings. Some people actually feel like they're out of body; they'll feel like they're shut down. They'll feel like they're blacked out. There are varying experiences. But it's all the relative of this death feigning as a way of surviving. It's what we call the escape when there is no escape, which is to shut down.

COOPER: Listen to how she talks about having to depend on her captor.


DUGARD: I depended on him for a bathroom, food, company.

SAWYER: You had no water, toothbrush?


SAWYER: Toilet?

DUGARD: No. No toilet.

SAWYER: What was the toilet?

DUGARD: The toilet was a bucket. I had handcuffs on so it -- it was very difficult.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: We're not talking about, you know, a few days. We're talking years and years and years. Could this have to do with -- I mean, anything about why -- why she didn't try to escape? The fact that it was so long this guy was the one person she had to depend on for everything?

PINSKY: Absolutely. I mean, listen, think about it. It's an 11-year-old who begins to think in terms of her very survival being dependent upon this horrible monster. The relative of a Stockholm Syndrome, where people begin to identify with the captor.

Then later on she gives birth to two children in the backyard with no medical care. It's just unbelievable. And when she sees the first child, she thinks to herself, Thankfully, I won't be alone." That's the only thing she can think, is somebody there that I can be with and can be with me. Now everything becomes about protecting those children, so she has extra now, another layer of dependency on this monster.

COOPER: How does one get back, though, I mean, after living like this for so many years, get back to a sense of normalcy? Because I guess in a sense you have to relearn everything.

PINSKY: You kind of do. I think the best way I can describe it for people to help them understand what this kind of healing is, is first of all, she's obviously working with a professional, and she is learning to tolerate and trust closeness with another human being without the anticipated exploitation and trauma. She learns to trust that individual.

Another feature of this is that individual, as they develop a closeness and a rapport and a sort of a -- almost a biological connection. She learns to perhaps tolerate some of these dead spots, some of these traumatic spots that this guy left behind. If she learns to sort of tolerate them and fill them, they don't leave such horrible feelings of emptiness and pain.

And she seems well on the road to this. And again, a lot of what recovery is about is not just that relationship but the ability to find joy and gratitude in the important things in life, such as spending time with your family and, in her case, with her young daughters.

COOPER: It's remarkable. Dr. Drew, thanks.

PINSKY: Appreciate it.


COOPER: Incredible lady.

Still ahead, hundreds turn out to honor a firefighter and father who died in just a freak accident at a baseball game. You probably saw the video over the weekend, in front of his 6-year-old son.

Also, why is everyone out to get Octomom? It's not her fault she has to fly to TV appearances with eight rowdy 2-year-olds. Tonight one of the passengers on that plane joins our ridiculous. No, in fact, all of the haters of Octomom join our "RidicuList."


COOPER: Up next, see why we're adding the Octomom haters to our "RidicuList." But first, Isha Sesay has the serious stuff in a "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Isha.

SESAY: Anderson, hundreds of mourners gathered today to pay respects to a firefighter who died catching a ball at a Texas Rangers game. Shannon Stone stuck out his glove to catch the ball but lost his balance and fell 20 feet. His 6-year-old son witnessed the accident.

Current and former first ladies Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton and Nancy Reagan will attend the memorial service tomorrow for Betty Ford in California. Former presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton will also attend. Mrs. Ford will be buried at the Gerald Ford Presidential Museum following another service Thursday in Michigan. She died Friday at the age of 93.

On Wall Street stocks posting their worse losses in about a month. The Dow sank 151 points, with investors worried about the U.S. economy and the possibility that Europe's debt crisis will spread to Italy.

And this is big, even for Texas. A 16 pound 1 ounce baby was born last Friday..


SESAY: ... by Caesarean section -- oh, yes. JaMichael Brown's mom said she knew he'd be big but not this big. Doctors attribute his large size to gestational diabetes, but his mom said he's going to be just fine. JaMichael's father told our affiliate at KLTV he sees football in his son's future.


SESAY: Oh, yes.

COOPER: Sixteen pounds?

SESAY: Sixteen pounds.

COOPER: JaMichael is his name.

SESAY: JaMichael. She gave birth to a small man.


SESAY: That's giving birth to a small man, if they're that size.

COOPER: All right. Time now for "The RidicuList." Tonight we're adding the Octomom haters. I'm talking about all those who dare to disparage single mom Nadya Suleiman who has 14 kids, including her 2-year-old octuplets. And tonight, there's a new hater in the game: one Kristen Johnson of "Third Rock from the Sun," who I am actually a big fan of.

TMZ is reporting that Kristen had the great fortune of being on a flight from L.A. to New York with Octomom and her kids and did the eight screaming 2-year-old annoyed her so much Kristen asked Octomom to keep it down.

Octomom apparently asked Kristen how she was supposed to do that, to which Kristen allegedly replied, "Get more help," at which point, Octomom suggested that Kristen get a life.

Kristen Johnson, I'm surprised at you. I, for one, happen to believe that children are our future. Ergo, Octomom is 14 times more concerned about the future than the rest of us. Yes, wrap your mind around that little nugget. Octomom is a hero in my book, and her kids are angels. For proof, let us look no further than "The Today Show" interview with Ann Curry.


NADYA SULEIMAN, OCTOMOM: I don't feel I have an authority.

ANN CURRY, NBC'S "THE TODAY SHOW": Whoa. No, no, no, that's OK. No, no, that's not going to happen. There you go. There you go, no problem.

SULEIMAN: We're going to stay on the carpet.

CURRY: But it's difficult, obviously, to keep an eye on everyone and make sure that you can give their attention.

SULEIMAN: No, I do that.

CURRY: So if you're not able -- at one point you told me that you were -- you told me that you were...


COOPER: Delightful! Who wouldn't want to be sitting with that beautiful brood in an enclosed space for five hours, sucking the recycled air at 30,000 feet with nothing but peanuts to munch on? Not me. I wonder if any of them have peanut allergies.


CURRY: How do you potty train eight 21/2 year olds? How do you do it?

SULEIMAN: You just go. At 200 miles per hour, you just do it. The girls are almost potty trained but since January they've been in preschool. So now when I'm working I'm able to work during the day or personally train people when they're in school. CURRY: Let me ask a question. There was a light back there.


COOPER: Was that David Gregory picking up poop? Didn't that look -- did you see that picture? It looked like David Gregory. Anyway, out of the mouths of babes.

Is there any sweeter sound? I could listen to the piercing pitch of jet-lagged little ones for hours. Someone should turn these kids' shrieks and cries into one of those atmospheric CDs, like they do with the ocean and rainstorms.



SULEIMAN: Jeremiah, freeze! Freeze, Noah!


SULEIMAN: Freeze, Noah, freeze, sit down right now.


COOPER: Do you think Ann Curry was thinking Meredith Vieira never had to deal with this crap?

Seriously, it's like a soothing lullaby played by 16 tiny, unwashed hands slamming little teen tiny sledgehammers right into your skull.


SULEIMAN: Sit down. One, two, three, four, five, six seven eight. By the way, they've had two hours of sleep. This is the behavior for two hours of sleep.


COOPER: David Gregory is like, get me back to "Meet the Press."

I don't see what the big deal is. It's really not that difficult to keep toddlers happy and quiet. For instance, when I met Nancy Grace's kids, I thought things went quite well.


NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: I'll do whatever makes them happy. Here she goes.

COOPER: You want a piece of paper.

Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

(BABY CRYING) GRACE: Anderson, what did you to him?

COOPER: I didn't do anything.


COOPER: I swear, all I did was hand that kid a piece of paper. And yes, I am available for babysitting. I'd even baby-sit the Octomom's kids, like maybe this fall when she's going to be on a reality dating show called "Celebudate." In a promo for the show, Octomom says she's never been on a date, has only has one boyfriend, the sperm donor, and she's been celibate for 12 years. I thought that was a little bit too much information but I find it hard to believe, because who wouldn't want to be involved with Octomom?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you're not really that interested about finding a man and having a relationship?

SULEIMAN: Not at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're attracted to one, and there was something going on between you and this guy, would you go on a date with him?

SULEIMAN: A platonic date. As long as he's...


SULEIMAN: No touching.


SULEIMAN: No. I'm a germophobe. No.


COOPER: Delightful. She's a massive germophobe. Good thing there's nothing unsanitary about 14 kids. They come shrink-wrapped these days. Don't they?

In conclusion, Kristen Johnson, riding on that plane with all those kids, I think -- I think you missed a great opportunity to learn something about Octomom and maybe about yourself.

I, for one, would jump at the chance to be a plane with eight screaming 2-year-olds. And by jump at the chance, I mean, where's the parachute?

Octomom haters pipe down. Let us enjoy the squeals and the shrieks on the RidicuList. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Good evening, everyone. We begin tonight "Keeping Them Honest" with a four-page pledge that a conservative group in Iowa has asked them to sign. It's called "The Marriage Vow," and candidates who sign it promise to fight against same-sex marriage, women in combat, quickie divorces, pornography and Sharia law, among other things.

The man behind the pledge is Bob Vander Plaats. That's him. He runs a group called the Family Leader. And he's a major force in conservative presidential politics in Iowa.

Now, two Republican candidates for president, Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum were quick to sign the pledge, but since this weekend and today, they've had to defend this decision, because there's else something written into it, something which is factually incorrect and shows a gross misunderstanding of American history.

The problem passage is right on the first page of the pledge in the preamble. It reads, quote, "Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families. Yet sadly, a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two- parent household and was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA's first African-American president.