Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Dueling Speeches on Debt Crisis; Norway Massacre; Hotel Maid Tells Her Story; Amy Winehouse Autopsy Inconclusive
Aired July 25, 2011 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
The breaking news: President Obama's primetime call for a deal to end the debt crisis and House Speaker John Boehner's response. The speeches coming with two competing new proposals on the table, one from Senate Democrats, the other from House Republicans, neither of which is looking very likely to pass.
Meantime, just seven days until the government runs out of money and rating agencies are threatening to downgrade the nation's credit even if a deal is reached. Even if a deal is reached, they may downgrade the credit.
It's a AAA right now. That's the credit rating, nearly as good as cash or gold and has been almost from the beginning. Losing that status would raise interest rates for all of us, would make mortgages cost more, stifle the economy, possibly trigger a run on the dollar.
Tonight, President Obama restated his desire for a deal that includes tax increases on wealthier Americans as well as spending cuts. Now, in doing so, he cited statistics appealing to bipartisanship and he invoked the words of Ronald Reagan. He also acknowledged how sharply divided Washington is while trying to channel what he sees as a bipartisan frustration among Americans for what goes on in Washington.
Take a look.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I realize that a lot of the new members of Congress and I don't see eye-to-eye on many issues. But we were each elected by some of the same Americans for some of the same reasons.
Yes, many want government to start living within its means. And many are fed up with a system in which the deck seems stacked against middle-class Americans in favor of the wealthiest few.
But do you know what people are fed up with most of all? They're fed up with a town where compromise has become a dirty word. They work all day long, many of them scraping by, just to put food on the table. And when these Americans come home at night, bone-tired, and turn on the news, all they see is the same partisan three-ring- circus here in Washington. They see leaders who can't seem to come together and do what it takes to make life just a little bit better for ordinary Americans. They are offended by that. And they should be.
The American people may have voted for divided government, but they didn't vote for a dysfunctional government. So I'm asking you all to make your voice heard. If you want a balanced approach to reducing the deficit, let your member of Congress know. If you believe we can solve this problem through compromise, send that message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: President Obama tonight. There were some sharply partisan moments as well in the President's speech and we will talk about the entire message in depth in a moment.
First, though, a portion of House Speaker John Boehner's response:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The President has often said we need a balanced approach, which in Washington means we spend more and you pay more. Having run a small business, I know those tax increases will destroy jobs.
The President is adamant that we cannot make fundamental changes to our entitlement programs. As a father of two daughters, I know these programs won't be there for them and their kids unless significant action is taken now. And the sad truth is that the President wanted a blank check six months ago, and he wants a blank check today.
This is just not going to happen. You see, there's no stalemate here in Congress. The House passed a bill to raise the debt limit with bipartisan support. And this week, while the Senate is struggling to pass a bill filled with phony accounting and Washington gimmicks, we're going to pass another bill, one that was developed with the support of the bipartisan leadership of the U.S. Senate.
Obviously, I expect that bill can and will pass the Senate and be sent to the President for a signature. And if the President signs it, the crisis atmosphere that he has created will simply disappear. The debt limit will be raised, spending will be cut by more than $1 trillion, and a serious bipartisan committee of the Congress will begin the hard, but necessary work of dealing with the tough challenges our nation faces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, significantly perhaps, Speaker Boehner made no mention of the proposal he and other GOP leaders rolled out at a news conference just a few hours ago.
Obviously a lot is still in flux at this hour. In a moment, we will talk it all over with James Carville and Erick Erickson, April Ryan and David Gergen.
But first let's start things off with Jessica Yellin, who joins us from the White House tonight.
Jessica, essentially what was the President trying to do tonight? At this point is it just about pressuring Congress to get his deal done?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, in a word, or to reach compromise. It was about reaching beyond Congress and getting the American and his supporters to call, to e-mail, to phone bank their members to do what they can, and pass some version of a bill.
I will point out a few things to you, Anderson. One, he aligned the Democrats plan with compromise and balance, the words you heard him say over and over is what's needed. He tried to isolate Speaker Boehner's plan and align it with a faction of Republicans which is, you know lingo for sort of hard-liners is suggested there.
You heard him use Reagan, quote Reagan to say that this needs to be done. I did not hear him repeat his veto threat, where he has threatened in the past to veto a short-term extension, although I'm advised we shouldn't read too much into that. He's done it every other speech. But, OK.
And, again, it's an interesting moment for the President if you detect the change of tone from his press conference last week when he was angry and frustrated, today very statesmanlike, presidential in his voice and intonation, although quite partisan and political as you pointed out in the substance of what he said.
COOPER: Right. He's saying that it's about compromise and stuff. On the other hand, this it was a very partisan speech. Boehner, who rolled out his own proposal today, but didn't give one specific -- or one single specific of the plan in his response to the President's speech, was that because not all House Republicans are on board with what Boehner is now behind?
YELLIN: Well, you make a good point. And not all House Republicans are on board and there's no clarity that that will pass. But certainly there's no path forward for it to pass the Senate at this point.
And, you know, the Republicans are arguing that they were very -- he was very clear in his speech about what the principles are. The bottom line is it was about point-scoring for both of them, playing to their base, trying to get their own teams to fight the other and all this spells impasse with about a week to go. This doesn't move the ball forward.
COOPER: Yes. It certainly doesn't.
Jessica Yellin, appreciate the reporting tonight.
Want to bring in our political panel, Democratic strategist James Carville, by Skype tonight; blogger Erick Erickson, editor in chief of RedState.com; also April Ryan, White House correspondent and Washington bureau chief for American Urban Radio Networks; and senior political analyst David Gergen.
James Carville, listening to these speeches tonight, it does sound like, to Jessica's point, like there's been no movement at all and they're kind of talking past each other.
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they are. The Democrats can't surrender to somebody. They keep trying to surrender their vote.
Look, we will cut Social Security, we will cut Medicare, we will cut Medicaid, we will give you a plan that doesn't have any tax increases or spending cuts and they just keep rejecting it. This thing is a rout. The Republicans are winning this thing in an utter rout in terms of getting what they want.
And then poor Speaker Boehner came up with a plan today and as Jessica pointed out, the Tea Party didn't even want that. So I think that you can't negotiate if one side is not interested in negotiating. This is like Napoleon in Moscow in 1812. The czar says I don't want to negotiate. There's nothing to talk about here.
So I don't know where this is going to end up. But maybe the Democrats can find somebody to take the white flag. So far they haven't been able to do it.
COOPER: Erick, is that how you see it?
ERICK ERICKSON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, REDSTATE.COM: No.
You know, I actually think they're closer than all of these speeches would suggest. If you look at what Harry Reid is proposing and you look at what John Boehner is proposing, other than John Boehner requiring two votes and a few other issues, by and large their plans are identical.
I suspect the plans will get merged within the next week. Now, guys like me won't like it. But we knew a compromise was coming. The problem is that neither plan cuts $3 trillion to $4 trillion which is what Standard & Poor's said they would need to do to be able to keep their credit rating at AAA.
COOPER: David, how big of a concern is that? That even with these plans the credit rating might still be downgraded?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a very big risk, Anderson. There are actually two different events here that -- and it's hard to keep them separated from each other.
But the first is getting the debt ceiling lifted. And that's the critical negotiation that is under way now. But even if we get it lifted, Erick's right that Standard & Poor's is saying even if you get it lifted it's how much you're willing to cut the deficits that they are really going to judge the AAA rating of the United States on. And if it's something less than $3 trillion to $4 trillion in real cuts then they're going to lower the credit rating of the United States for the first time in our history.
We have had it -- since 1917 we have been AAA. And, Anderson, there's a growing sense at top levels here in Washington that the chances of a credit rating down -- the downgrade in the credit rating is becoming more than just a possibility, but we're moving towards a probability.
COOPER: April, for those who haven't been following this as closely as just about everybody in Washington and a lot of other folks have been following it, where do both plans stand kind of right now? You have Harry Reid's and you have John Boehner.
APRIL RYAN, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Well, you know, really, all the plans right now are in flux. But yet they're not in flux. It's a lot of he say/she say up and down Pennsylvania Avenue, who wants what, what's going to be taken, what's not.
The bottom line is, the American people want this to be done. They want this to be over with. They want to make sure they're safe. And the bottom line -- safe financially. And the bottom line is, I'm hearing from the Republican side that at the end of the day the President is going to wind up having to sign this Boehner plan where you have these two parts of raising the debt limit, and the White House is saying, look, we're not for this. We want to -- we don't want a short-term fix.
They're going to hold out as long as they can because they're feeling if it's taken this long just to come up with this, going back six months later is just not going to work.
And the bottom line is, what's missing in the equation is the American people. And, again, as you just talked about, also, the Standard & Poor's AAA credit rating, we have to remember that that credit rating also helps the engine of this country, small business.
Small businesses, a lot of times, employ people when they feel, oh, I have got a government contract, I have got some kind of monies coming in. And if they don't feel that security, what's going to happen to the jobs rate again?
COOPER: David, David, can you try to break down just where these two plans are in some way? Because one's head can kind of explode trying to figure out all the details on this thing. How does Boehner's plan and Reid's plan, which are essentially the two plans out there, how do they differ?
GERGEN: Well, John Boehner's plan is the more ambitious plan and very controversial. It divides itself into two parts.
The first is in effect about a trillion dollars worth of extension of the debt ceiling and it forces a second vote on the debt -- a renewed fight over the debt ceiling about six months from now and what the White House and the President vehemently feel strongly about is he doesn't want that second vote. And that's because they worry that the Republicans will put a gun to their heads just on the eve of the second vote and say either take all these cuts in entitlements or you're going to go into default and they don't want to be in that situation.
So there is the Boehner plan. And, frankly, Anderson, the Boehner plan may not get out of the House. It may not pass the House but it will surely die in the Senate.
Then Harry Reid has a plan which is -- only takes the debt ceiling all the way until January of 2013. It gets rid of that problem for the President, but from a Republican point of view isn't truly as big at it seems. He's saying, look, I have got $2.7 trillion worth of cuts, but a trillion of them from a Republican point of view are phantom cuts.
They take -- they say, look, we're going to wind down Iraq and Afghanistan and save a trillion dollars by not having these wars for 10 more years. Well, who in the world thought we were going to be there for 10 more years? So they -- Republicans regard that as a gimmick.
The Reid plan will have a hard time passing Senate and will not pass the House. So you have got the two plans that are out there are ultimately horses you can't ride all the way to the finish line. And the issue becomes, what comes after them and can you get it done before Monday or Tuesday of next week?
I think we're heading toward a two-week, three-week extension of this fight. I think the President will accept some sort of extension for two or three weeks to allow this fight to play out.
COOPER: When we come back, we're going to talk to our panel and get James Carville's take and Erick Erickson's take on those two plans.
Let us know what you think. We're on Facebook. Follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper. I will be tweeting in the hour tonight.
Also ahead, the Norway terror suspect, what we learned about him today, his new claims that he didn't act alone, and the chilling 1,500-page anti-Muslim manifesto and some of the Americans he quotes in it. We will explain that ahead.
Plus, new developments in the Dominique Strauss-Kahn case. The maid at the center of the alleged hotel room assault breaking her silence. We will talk to the reporter who got the "Newsweek" interview, some really interesting details about her and her allegations of sexual assault.
And an autopsy performed today in the tragic premature death of singer Amy Winehouse. Isha Sesay will be back a little bit later on in the program with the early results of that autopsy, results that frankly may just deepen the mystery. We will also talk to Dr. Drew Pinsky about her public struggle with addiction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Most Americans, regardless of political party, don't understand how we can ask a senior citizen to pay more for her Medicare before we ask corporate jet owners or the oil companies to give up tax breaks that other companies don't get. How can we ask a student to pay more for college before we ask hedge fund managers to stop paying taxes at a lower rate than their secretaries? How can we slash funding for education and clean energy before we ask people like me to give up tax breaks we don't need and didn't ask for?
That's not right. It's not fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: President Obama earlier tonight.
Joining us back again is Democratic strategist James Carville and also RedState.com's Erick Erickson.
So, James, what's wrong with Boehner's plan?
CARVILLE: Well, I -- what's wrong with Boehner's plan is he doesn't have the votes. He can't get the Tea Party to vote for it. And, according to the President, that he doesn't want to revisit this thing during an election year.
I'm not sure as a Democrat I mind revisiting it during the election year. It seems like the politics for this, to be kind of crass about it, has played out pretty favorable to the Democrats. If you look at our poll, its 51-30 -- which 21 points is a pretty big lead in American politics right now with something like this.
But they think it's bad policy, as do a lot of other people, to revisit this election year. Also Boehner has the sort of super Congress thing in there. There's some sort of controversy among the Tea Party about that because they think it will lead to some tax increases and all kinds of different things here. But hopefully they will get something worked out because they're playing with some awfully dangerous combustible material here. It could blow up in somebody's face.
COOPER: The other thing Erick, in Boehner's plan is they're talking about setting up yet another commission, to look at ways to cut spending down the road. Haven't we had endless commissions that have already come up with plans about this?
ERICKSON: That's actually one of my biggest complaints about Boehner and Harry Reid's plan, both of which would set up commissions of some sort.
Since 1982, January 1st of 1982, we've had 18 commissions. We have seen the deficit or the national debt go from $1.12 trillion to now $14.02 trillion with these 18 commissions to ring in the deficit. They don't work. They never have worked.
Sometimes we get tax increases out of them and rarely do we get cuts. I think Boehner and Reid's plans are both too clever by half. And I frankly have some of the same problem with Boehner's plan that James does and I think it's ridiculous for us to fight this over again in six months during an election year.
I think James is right. It winds up helping the Democrats but more importantly I think it's bad for the country to have a debate like this six months in a row.
CARVILLE: What I articulate is -- I was saying this with some of the Tea Party problems. Some of it might not be my individual problem but I was just making a point of what they say is wrong with that. And I don't know if the politics of having another vote on this. I don't know if they're bad or good, Erick.
COOPER: So James, what do you think is going to happen?
CARVILLE: You know what? I don't know. And I'll be honest with you, Anderson, I talked to a lot of people on the phone today and I've detected in people that follow this closely, I'm detecting a slight element of something I've never heard before, a little fear in people's voice that say maybe this think just can't get there.
I don't believe that. It doesn't look like the bond market believes that right now but this is a very, very, very touchy -- look a significant number of Republicans as I pointed out, that says it's not a big deal if we default. Senator DeMint, Senator Toomey, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, the "Wall Street Journal," ran a big influential piece by a big-time investor saying it would be better to go into default.
And a lot of these guys believe -- they don't believe in expertise and they sent the Treasury Secretary down there, they sent establishment guy down there and they think it's all just made up and this is something that they've kind of been sent here to do so we don't know what we did.
Boehner has -- they've got to get some Democratic votes somewhere to do this.
ERICKSON: James, I would say that's a mischaracterization of their position in that they were not saying go to default. What they were saying was after August 2nd we wouldn't default because we would have enough money coming in to pay the principal and interest on our debt. So it technically wouldn't be a default.
ERICKSON: I would say though Anderson, it's worth pointing out back in December of 2010, Harry Reid had the opportunity to raise the debt ceiling and I have the Politico piece pulled up over my computer right now where he was quoted as saying he thought he would rather wait until the Republicans got in charge of the House to do it.
CARVILLE: Well, again, yes they said if you didn't do it on a 2nd there would be plenty of money coming in. Most people say that that's not true. Most experts say this is a very, very dangerous thing. There's a significant number of influential people on the right that say it's not going to be that big a big deal.
Hopefully we won't see. I'd hate to see the experts be proven right in this.
COOPER: James, Erick Erickson, appreciate your time. Thanks very much tonight. Worrying night.
Up next, did the suspect in Friday's Norway terrorist attack work with accomplices? He was in court today. There are a lot of developments. We'll bring you the latest.
Also tonight, results of the autopsy conducted on the body of British singer Amy Winehouse, really leading to more questions. We have some details about her funeral as well.
COOPER: Stunned Norwegians pause today for a national moment of silence for the victims of Friday's dual terror attacks. In Oslo, the capital city and the site of one of the attacks, nearly 200,000 people joined in a memorial procession. And there are a number of significant developments in the investigation and the attacks to tell you about tonight.
At a court hearing, the suspect, a guy who's 32 years old, his name is Anders Breivik pleaded not guilty to two counts of terrorism. The hearing was closed to the public for security reasons. But afterwards, the judge said publicly that despite Breivik's plea, he acknowledged carrying out the bombing in downtown Oslo and also the mass shooting at a nearby island.
The judge also said that Breivik claims to have worked with accomplices or as he told the court, quote, two more cells in our organization. Today police refuse to confirm that detail and jus yesterday top police officials said that Breivik told investigators that he acted alone so it's a contradiction.
And then there's the so-called manifesto that bears Breivik's name. CNN has not independently confirmed that Breivik he wrote this 1,500-page manifesto but in it the author rails against the growth of Muslim populations across Europe and against political leaders who he believes are doing nothing to stop it.
Today, police also revised the death toll downward to 76. Initially they believed 93 people were murdered in Friday's double attacks, but it looks like some victims were counted twice.
Here's more on the terror that unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Many of the children at this summer camp on Norway's Utoya Island had almost no chance to escape.
DINA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: People around you hit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. My friend saw his girlfriend being shot and just floating away.
COOPER: Some were executed hiding in tents or as they huddled among rocks for safety. Those who tried to swim away found no refuge either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It was about 20 to 30 of us trying to swim over. I saw a few of them being shot in the water. And it was a very powerful water. You could see the water breaking around and you could see when the water turned red.
COOPER: Coolly and methodically, Anders Breivik shot victims as they begged for their lives. Authorities are still searching the woods and the waters around the island for bodies. But they believe Breivik murdered nearly 70 people here during his killing spree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very important we find everybody so the family can start the grieving process.
COOPER: Authorities have been poring over a 1-500 page manifesto that surfaced on the Internet on the same day as the mass murders, allegedly written by the killer himself. Some passages appear similar to writings of Unabomber Ted Kaczynski but much of it is actually a rant against Islam.
"Time is of the essence," the manifesto reads. "We have only a few decades to consolidate a sufficient level of resistance before our major cities are completely and demographically overwhelmed by Muslims. Breivik saw himself as a crusader against Islam, a modern day Knights Templar.
In a video posted on YouTube, six hours before the attack Breivik can be seen posing with automatic weapons and in military uniforms.
Many members of the ruling Labor Party have sent their children to the camp Breivik targeted and authorities say he wanted to send a message. The judge in the case paraphrased Breivik's comments in court today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as the Labor Party keeps drawing its ideological line and keeps deconstructing our region culture and mass importing Muslims then they must assume responsibility for this treason. And any person with a conscience can't allow his country to be colonized by Muslims.
COOPER: We now know Breivik drew some inspiration from Americans who have written extensively of what they say are the dangers of Islam. The manifesto mentions Pamela Geller, who helped to lead the charge against the Park 51 mosque near ground zero describing her as a decent human being and citing her blog Atlas Shrugs, 12 times.
Another American author, Robert Spencer was mentioned 46 times. His Web site, Jihad Watch was cited an additional 130 times.
Lars Gule is a Norwegian terrorism expert.
LARS GULE, NORWEGIAN TERRORISM EXPERT: The right-wing Web sites, they provide a greenhouse for extremist ideas because they become isolated. People who do not share these ideas they tend to stay away which means that there's no opposition. There's no contrary arguments so they feed upon themselves.
COOPER: Supporters of Geller and Spencer say the effort to link them to the massacre is akin to character assassination in the media. They say it's unfair to blame them for the killings.
As for the message Breivik wanted to send through his murderous rampage, in Norway at least it seems to be falling on deaf ears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want to be silenced. We're going to continue. We're going to continue to struggle. And we're going to continue doing what we do. We want to make the world a better place and we want to continue with our politics. We want to show them that they're not going to shoot us to silence.
COOPER: Just ahead: weeks after Dominique Strauss-Kahn was freed from house arrest, his accuser comes forward telling her story publicly, for the first time sharing very vivid details with "Newsweek's" Chris Dickey. He talked to her for three hours. Chris joins me along with Jeffrey Toobin in a moment.
Plus what early autopsy results reveal about the death of singer, Amy Winehouse and her plans for a funeral tomorrow. Details ahead.
COOPER: Welcome back.
In "Crime and Punishment": another huge twist in the case against Dominique Strauss-Kahn; his accuser speaking out for the first time. Now, the hotel maid, who alleges the former head of the IMF sexually assaulted her, broke her public silence for the first time in interviews with "Newsweek" magazine and ABC's "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAFISSATOU DIALLO, STRAUSS-KAHN'S ACCUSER: I was like, "I'm so sorry." I turned my head and he comes to me and grabbed my breast. "No, you don't have to be sorry."
I said, "Stop this. I don't want to lose my job." I was like, "Stop, stop this, stop this." But he won't say nothing. He keeps pushing me, pushing me, pushing me to the hallway -- back to the hallway. Keep pushing me. I was so afraid. I was so scared. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's how 32-year-old Nafissatou Diallo described what happened on May 14th when she walked into Strauss-Kahn's luxury suite in New York. She says she was surprised by a naked man lunging at her, a man she said she didn't recognize.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN ROBERTS, ABC NEWS HOST: When did you realize that he was one of the most powerful men in the world?
DIALLO: I was watching the news and then they say he's going to be the next president of France. Then I say, oh, my God. And I was crying. I said they're going to kill me. I said they're going to kill me. I'm going to die.
ROBERTS: Why did you think that, Nafi?
DIALLO: Because I know if I was in my country, a powerful man like that, they're going to kill me before someone knows what happened to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Diallos's from Guinea in West Africa. She came to the U.S. in 2003 and applied for asylum. She has a teenage daughter here as well. She's speaking out at a crucial time as prosecutors are struggling with their case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: What do you want?
DIALLO: I want justice. I want him to go to jail. I want him to know you cannot use your power when you do something like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Strauss-Kahn's lawyers denied that any crime. They've said whatever happened inside the hotel room was consensual.
Three weeks ago, a judge freed Strauss-Kahn from house arrest after prosecutors admitted that Diallo had lied about some details after the alleged attack. They also say she admitted lying on her asylum application.
Tonight a source tells CNN that Diallo, her lawyer and prosecutors will meet on Wednesday.
Chris Dickey is "Newsweek's" Paris bureau chief and Mid East editor. He interviewed Miss Diallo for three hours for the magazine's cover story. I talked to him earlier tonight along with senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Chris, in your opinion, you interviewed her. Was Nafissatou Diallo believable when you sat down and talked with her?
CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, "NEWSWEEK": Yes. I thought she was very believable when she was talking about the incident itself, the alleged attempted rape and sexual assault. Not only because she told that story consistently many, many times but also, because we know that almost all of the physical evidence or all of it supports her case and, also, because we haven't heard from Dominique Strauss-Kahn any version of the case.
She's basically a simply woman. She's illiterate. She can't read, she can't write in any language and her job is a job that gave her a great source of pride. And when she started talking about her fear that somehow, dealing with this crazy naked guy in this room, was going to create a situation where she was going to lose her job that filled in a big blank in terms of my understanding of the case.
COOPER: You do write in the piece that at times, her tears seemed forced.
DICKEY: Yes, when she was talking about other things but that wasn't the case when she was telling the story of the alleged criminal assault.
COOPER: Jeff, you see these interviews as an act of desperation by her lawyers. How so?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Because this case is hanging by a thread. The prosecutor has made clear publicly that there are enormous credibility problems with Miss Diallo and her lawyers are trying to go public in an effort to put public pressure on Vance not to drop the case.
DICKEY: I don't think her lawyers actually believe this case will ever go to trial in a criminal -- as a criminal case. But I do think that they want to keep the investigation going. They want to keep the wheels turning for a while, because I think they're going to lodge a civil suit very soon.
TOOBIN: And they've said that they're going to bring a civil suit which, frankly, undermines her credibility even more, because it plays into Dominique Strauss-Kahn's lawyer's claim that this is all a money-grab on her part.
COOPER: Chris, in your article, there was -- you discuss the phone conversation she had had with somebody, I believe, who was in prison. When it was originally recounted -- I think, in "The New York Times" -- it made it seem like she was going to be hitting DSK up for money and that this was about money. But there's been another translation of it. Does it exonerate her or does it still make her seem kind of suspicious?
DICKEY: Well, it makes her seem a little less suspicious. First of all, even the way it was presented in "The New York Times," it was a conversation that took place after the incident. She's talking to somebody. She's telling them what's going on. He's asking her if she can take care of herself. She's saying she can.
The thing that seemed incriminating was she says, "He has a lot of money. I know how to take care of this," is essentially what was attributed to her. But that was not based on an actual transcript of the conversation which isn't to say that the prosecutors don't have something to worry about. They absolutely do.
Because the big problem for them is that on her asylum application, she lied about a rape, about having been raped under certain circumstances. And she memorized the account of that so that she could tell it and make people cry when she told the story. And it was all a lie.
So you put her on the stand with that bit of information about her, and there's no way you're going to cross the threshold of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that she's telling the truth.
COOPER: So, Jeff, do you think prosecutors are also going to bring this case to a criminal trial? Because you could make the argument, people who lie on their applications and lie in their lives also still can be raped. And maybe that's what happened to this woman.
TOOBIN: And people who are wronged often file civil lawsuits, and that doesn't mean that they're greedy and lying either.
I don't know, Anderson. I mean, I think this is a very tough call for the prosecutors here.
But, you know, she still has going for her the fact that this sexual encounter, which we know from DNA evidence took place, was a very bizarre thing. And I think at least some jurors might say, "Well, of course, she's telling the truth. How else could this sexual encounter have unfolded, other than by force from Dominique Strauss- Kahn?"
COOPER: Chris Dickey, appreciate it; fascinating article in "Newsweek."
Jeff to Toobin, as well. Thanks.
COOPER: We'll see if the case moves forward.
Up next, the autopsy report is back in the death of singer Amy Winehouse. Questions remain, though. We'll talk with Dr. Drew Pinsky about her death and addiction.
Also tonight, we're putting the Home Shopping Network on notice. Yes, they built a huge brand, and yes, they have a loyal following but they are missing an opportunity of a lifetime. Find out what they're passing up next on our "Ridiculist."
COOPER: A private funeral for Amy Winehouse will be held tomorrow. An autopsy was completed today. Results, though, were inconclusive. Police are hoping that lab tests are going to help determine the cause of death. They're expected back in two to four weeks. Those are more advanced toxicology reports.
The 27-year-old obviously shot to international fame four years ago with her own unique, raw, powerful vocal sound, but she was known, as well, for her erratic and self-destructive behavior and her drug problems.
Last month during a concert in Serbia, Winehouse was booed offstage by fans when she couldn't remember the words to her songs. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A short time ago I spoke to Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of "Dr. Drew" on our sister network, HLN.
COOPER: You know, Dr. Drew, when you see this last concert performance that she gave in Belgrade where she was, you know, kind of incoherent on the stage and was finally booed off the stage and then cancelled her tour, what does that tell you? I mean why was she even on that stage in the first place?
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Well, that's the real question here. Apparently, she'd been in treatment just a few weeks or maybe even a few days before. And in my experience, that is the No. 1 reason my patients that are celebrities have difficulty getting effective treatment.
That is, that they are people that make a lot of money for other people and they themselves love their careers and they are very aroused by it and want to get back to it, and they inevitably go back prematurely. What they need to do is drop out, not worry about their job and focus on their recovery, many times, for months or years before they return to something like -- like touring for a musical performance.
COOPER: It's weird because she seemed like she had done that for a while. She sort of dropped out. You didn't really see the pictures of her incoherently stumbling around like you did in London for a while. And then all of a sudden, she popped up again in this Belgrade thing, and it seemed to be a downward spiral from there.
We all saw this kind of coming. We all saw this train wreck for years and years and years with her. And she talked, she sang about not wanting to go into rehab. Unless the person wants to do it, no amount of attention, no amount of caring by family members or others can really do much, right?
PINSKY: That is essentially true, Anderson. The fact is, you can't make somebody want to get well. Addiction is a chronic life- long condition. It requires daily management and somebody with this condition has to really want to get sober and has to do that work each and every day just the way a diabetic must take insulin every day or their diabetes runs out of control.
It is very difficult to get somebody to make that commitment, to want to do that work. And people that love them and surround them sometimes are not enough. The pain they cause other people, often not enough to get them into sobriety.
However, I will tell you that, if you can leverage somebody into a long-term structured environment, like 6 or 12 months, sometimes it will sort of come to and regain insight and begin to see their disease for what it really is, and then have some motivation to pursue recovery.
COOPER: Do you think celebrities are more prone to struggle with addiction than the average person?
PINSKY: The answer is absolutely yes to that. I actually have the only world's published literature on this. And I studied it very carefully. And what came clear in our research was that it's not being a celebrity that increases the risk of addiction. It is the kind of person that strives to be a celebrity, comes with -- comes to their celebrity status with the predisposition, the predilection for addiction.
And once they have celebrity, money and power, it's very difficult, then, to get in the way of their disease and leverage them into treatment. The people around them oftentimes aren't willing to sacrifice their access to that individual by confronting them and doing what's right for that individual.
COOPER: It does seem it's one of those things, though, where someone who had so much talent and so much going for them and so much possibility of having, you know, a good income and a good life, to see it all just, you know, be thrown away is just -- it's just so pathetic and sad.
PINSKY: It's sad. You know, people loved her. We all appreciated her talent. But the fact is, just like if she had a cancer with a terrible prognosis, you have to recognize this as a sick person. There's a treatment there, but not everyone who has access to that treatment is going to get well.
COOPER: Dr. Drew thanks.
COOPER: A lot more ahead, including the "Ridiculist."
First, Isha Sesay joins us with a "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, jury selection began today in Texas in the trial of Warren Jeffs, the leader of a fundamentalist Mormon sect. He's charged with sexually assaulting a minor and bigamy. The judge said the trial may last two to three weeks.
Good news for football fans. NFL will play its 2011-2012 Season after all. Today the team owners and the players association signed a new ten-year collective bargaining agreement that ended the four-month lockout. Players can begin reporting to club facilities tomorrow.
And the incredible story of the Chilean miners is headed to the screen. Thirty-three miners were trapped underground for 69 days, and their rescue mesmerized the world. Production on the film is expected to begin sometime next year. That's one for your diary, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. Mike Medavoy, I think, is going to be producing. He's really a great producer --
SESAY: "Black Swan."
COOPER: Yes, and he has a really interesting history, as well, as we were reading about it in the paper today.
Isha, we've been waiting for you this entire hour. Where have you been? I kept getting word, "Isha's not here. We don't know." Are you having travel problems yet again?
SESAY: I'll tell you where Isha was. I flew from L.A. And you're in L.A. Now, so we crossed paths.
COOPER: You have endless travel difficulties, it seems.
SESAY: I do. But I'm trying to figure out the highlight of the day: Was it the child that screamed so hard I thought he was going to be sick of himself? Or was it my time in Max and Erma's and, you know, watching people scarf as many chicken wings as you can possibly consume. It was quite a day.
COOPER: Wow. Sounds like a great day. Of course, you had a great travel day.
SESAY: Maybe a movie could be made out of it.
COOPER: Maybe so. We'll see.
Isha thanks. I'm glad you made it at the end of the program. Thank you.
Tonight, for "The "Ridiculist," tonight we add the Home Shopping Network. Now, actually, I think they just call it HSN now, not to be confused with our sister network, HLN, because although the idea of Nancy Grace yelling at us to buy costume jewelry does oddly appeal to me.
Anyway, the Home Shopping Network, HSN, is on the list tonight, because they dropped the ball on what I think is an incredible opportunity, and I don't mean having Roland Martin on to sell his line of ascots although not a bad -- also not a bad idea.
I'm talking about Mariah Carey, the original vision of love. She was on HSN last night to sell some of her jewelry and her accessories. And why the executives over there did not immediately give her, her own show is beyond me. I don't know what QVC is bringing to the table, but unless it's a cubic zirconium stone set atop a band of 24-carat crazy, HSN is sitting on a winner.
The blonde Jezebel compiled some of the highlights. And let's just say all I want for Christmas is you, Mariah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIAH CAREY, SINGER: I don't know where to look at you, because there's like 20 zillion cameras here. I'm looking at four, there's five. It's like I didn't know there was math involved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: OK. Fine, Mimi had a little trouble with the cameras. As a trained TV professional, complete with hair dryer, I can tell you that happens to the best of us. But it's not like she was so disoriented she was making up words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAREY: And because I was pregnant when I was creating this stuff, I was like, I need a camouflageian (ph) moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, OK, she's making up words. You know what? Who hasn't -- among us, who hasn't needed a camouflageian moment once in a while? Seriously, cut Mariah some slack. It was all she could do to deal with those pesky cameras.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAREY: I just had babies. We can't -- sorry. They're telling me to look in a particular camera to see the people. Which one is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people. Right there, Mariah.
CAREY: Hi, folks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This handbag that you see on the side --
CAREY: Don't even discuss that one handbag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you love the black sequins.
CARY: Take the camera off me, please, and I know you guys hear me. I see it on me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There it is. Oh, gosh.
CAREY: Last time we had an issue. I won't get into it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: No one has seemed to tell her it's about selling the products.
Anyway, look, I admit, I haven't fully kept up with Mariah in the past few years. I didn't even know she had a fashion line. All I know is that she married one of the guys from "America's Got Talent." I'm assuming Piers Morgan. I may be wrong, but believe me, if I am, he'll correct me. After all, it's been, what, like five whole seconds since Piers Morgan tweeted his last tweet?
I also knew that Mariah had given birth to twins, Moroccan and Monroe, and a lot of people have made fun of the names. I'm not going to do that especially, now that I know what Mariah went through.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAREY: Because my body went through so much, holding those twins in and you have to keep them in as long -- as long as possible. Because it's a sacrifice you make for them, and so literally I was like 47 weeks pregnant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I love the guys holding the shoe like, OK, let me just sell the shoe.
Wow, 47 weeks. She says she was pregnant for 47 weeks! That's 10.6 months. No wonder Piers Morgan looks so tired.
By the way, if you want more details about Mariah Carey's pregnancy, the lines are open.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CALLER: I don't know if you remember me, but I called in February.
CAREY: You did? And you called from Illinois? I was in February, honey it was bleak for me. They were always saying to me, "Oh, but it's all worth it." I'm, like, yes, it's easy for you to say when you're not the one whose feet are this big.
CAREY: And it turned into, like, a really difficult time. Honestly. I'm going to say it right now, because I need a moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Mariah Carey earrings, $39. Mariah Carey complaining about her swollen feet to callers at midnight on HSN -- priceless.
By the way, HSN executives, if you're still unconvinced that Ms. Carey should have her own show, I would like to remind you that she's nothing if not easy to work with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAREY: You guys can go up and go -- can we see, not to dictate shots, but sorry. But giving you (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We're giving you moments. Please, you guys go to a close up of the side where the gold is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see that right there.
CAREY: Because these details were really super important to me. If you can go down. Cut away from me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.
CAREY: Don't show that. My microphone just fell off my body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, HSN, it's up to you. I understand Mariah Carey was on again this evening, and that's great, but I'm holding out for her to get a permanent prime time show each and every weeknight. I want her; I want her swollen feet. I want the camoflaugeian moments.
Let me know when you decide. Operators are standing be on "The "Ridiculist." We'll be right back.
COOPER: That's it for 360.
Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow.