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FBI Joins Search for Missing Woman in Aruba
Aired August 11, 2011 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go. The feds are on the case of that missing woman in Aruba. What does that mean?
Then the grandparents of triplets are here with their suspicions about the kids` mom. She vanished without a trace.
And Casey Anthony is the most -- well, I`ll just save that for later, exactly what she is. But meantime, let`s go figure it out.
Tonight, Natalee Holloway deja vu. The FBI joins the search for a missing woman in Aruba. Watch this double talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could cell phones and a rental car hold clues to the disappearance of an American woman in Aruba?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was on this beach on August 2 that Gary Giordano, who`s the man now being held by Aruban authorities, says that he and Robyn Gardner were snorkeling.
RICHARD FORESTER, ROBYN`S BOYFRIEND: I`m 100 percent sure that she wouldn`t have gone snorkeling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now police are starting to doubt Giordano`s story about the last time he saw her.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN ANCHOR: Apparently, this guy would GO online, get to know women in their late 40s. They would meet in person a couple of times, go back to his house and have consensual sex. But what they didn`t know is they were being videotaped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Robyn Gardner`s travel companion says she drowned while swimming in rough water. But there`s some major problems with his story.
First of all, so-called Baby Beach, where they were supposedly snorkeling, is extremely calm. Hence the name Baby Beach.
Second, Robyn`s boyfriend says there is no way she would even get into the water. He describes her as a hair and makeup, cocktail by the pool kind of girl.
There`s also the fact that Robyn may have been having a secret online affair. Her boyfriend tells us she said she was going on an Aruba vacation with family. Robyn`s real travel buddy was this guy, Gary Giordano. And she had met him on an online dating site. Now he is the prime suspect in this case and remains behind bars tonight in the Caribbean.
So how can we understand why this young woman would go to Aruba with a stranger or near stranger, and a guy that may be dangerous? Let`s go to my guests. Psychologist Lisa Boeski is here to help me answer these questions. And Robyn`s boyfriend, Robert Forester, is here, as well. And CNN reporter Martin Savidge live in Aruba.
Martin, can you tell us what the latest is out there?
SAVIDGE: Well, we`ve got a lot of moving parts, actually, going on with the case today. First and foremost now, the Aruban government is putting forward a formal request for the help from the U.S. Department of Justice. This is essentially what they`re going to ask for, is interviews to be conducted in the United States, possibly a home of Gary -- or a search of the home of Gary Giordano.
They also will be looking for background information regarding Robyn Gardner and Mr. Giordano, because these are American citizens.
But on top of that, we`re also being told by the prosecutor`s office that "Gary Giordano is no longer cooperating with our investigation." They say that he has clammed up and he is not speaking. And he has also told his attorney not to say about it. And the authorities here said that changes everything. Their investigation is going to become much more aggressive. They will identify him publicly for the first time in the island and post his picture, asking for people to give them any kind of insights or information.
And then on top of that, I just want to show you where we are. This is the beach. This is the area where the events took place on August 2. It`s a picture postcard setting. It`s very popular. It`s open to the public, and there are many people still here.
But we will point out that, once you get beyond Baby Beach, beyond that break wall, if you were to venture out where you might see the waves breaking behind me, the locals say that`s actually a very dangerous area, that there is a strong current beyond the break wall. Excuse me. And it will suck you down. So that`s what they point our here as far as the lay of the land. Baby Beach for the most part, beautiful. But does have dangers in the distance.
PINSKY: Thank you, Martin.
Robyn`s boyfriend says she had lied to him about the trip, telling him she was going to Florida -- to a Florida visit with her family. Eventually, she did come clean and, in fact, she was in Aruba with another man.
Now, after admitting she lied, around 2 a.m. she posted a message on her boyfriend`s Facebook wall saying, "This sucks." The next day she sent her boyfriend another message on Facebook, saying, "I love you. I care about you. And we will talk about this and sort it out when we get back." Interestingly, "we" there.
Lisa, could Giordano have gotten mad that she was still connected with her boyfriend and he was wanting something with her, and this triggered some aggression, perhaps?
LISA BOESKI, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, that`s one thing we have to wonder. You know, her roommate described their friendship, her and Giordano, as a roller-coaster friendship with a lot of ups and downs. And that right there is a red flag. Why would a friendship be up and down and full of drama? So you have to wonder if this is one of these cases where maybe they went under the pretense of being friends. He`s like, "Don`t worry about it. I know you have a boyfriend." And once they got there and she said, "Look, I`m not interested in that." And he took that -- some men take that very much like humiliation. They feel taken advantage of. And he may have snapped. He does have a history of that kind of behavior, being aggressive and kind of exploding when hearing bad news.
PINSKY: Lisa, do you make anything of this videotape allegation? And what some of the other women are saying, that he made them so uncomfortable that, in retrospect, they were fearful something horrible might have happened to them?
BOESKI: Well, I think that`s what`s important about the fact that they were online friends, is these women experienced things with him that this woman did not. So when you meet someone online, you don`t pick up on those nonverbal cues. You don`t see their actions. You don`t see their mannerisms.
And so the reality is you don`t know who you`re meeting. And we tend as humans to fill in the blanks with positives, not negatives. So she probably gave him the benefit of the doubt. And when you have lust for someone or you find someone attractive, you tend not to look at the red flags. And I`m sure there were red flags all along the way. These women picked up on it, but I`m not so sure this woman picked up on it.
PINSKY: OK. Now, Richard, I want to go to you. I want to ask you something. But please know this is not meant as an accusation of anything. These are just something that came across.
FORESTER: Real quick, Dr. Drew, on that message, it did not say, "When we return." It said, "When I return."
PINSKY: OK. That seems a little -- the "we" seemed out of place for me there, too. So good. I`m glad that`s the case. Two sources. I want you to bear with me on this. But two sources told us that they witnessed a loud public screaming match between you and Robyn this July. We tried to verify that. We contacted police, and they said that they -- police apparently did have contact with you that night, but no one was arrested.
Let me be super clear. We are not -- we are only talking about this, because it`s been my experience that people who have volatility in their relationships may not always use best judgment.
PINSKY: That perhaps would explain why Robyn was impulsive and left the country. And you know, didn`t really -- with someone she didn`t know very well.
FORESTER: Well -- first of all -- I`ll tell you about that day. That was actually back in February. We`d been out. She`d had a bit too much to drink. She was angry. She started screaming. Neighbors that live in apartments, you know, very close by heard. They called the police. Police came, saw that nothing was wrong, said, "Great, sorry to bother you. Have a good night."
PINSKY: I mean, I`m going to -- Richard, I`m going to tell you again this is by the facts as I understand them. The report that we heard was in July. The police report. Does that sound familiar? Does that ring any bells for you?
FORESTER: No, that does not. You know what? I`m so sorry. I`m so sorry. I`m so sorry. Because it did happen twice. It happened once in my apartment and once when we were at the beach. Again, a little bit too much to drink. She was screaming. An ex-boyfriend of hers had texted me. I asked her about it. She got mad. She started screaming. They called the police. Police came, saw that there was nothing wrong, nobody was hurt and nobody was getting hurt or was about to get hurt. They left.
PINSKY: Richard, did you ever worry about her alcohol relationship?
FORESTER: I did. I did. I did. Definitely. It was a point of contention.
FORESTER: Yes. Giordano apparently has a criminal record, and he has had at least two orders of protection taken out against him from women who claim he was violent towards them. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s going through your mind when you realize that this women may have gone away with him and now she may be dead?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`m still shaking, because I have children, and that could have been me. And at first, you know, I`m like, how could I have gone out with him more than once? But his behavior is so bizarre that it was hard to wrap your mind around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Martin, I`m going to you. Have any witnesses come forward about this behavior or anything out of line with Robyn at the resort?
SAVIDGE: No, they haven`t. For this particular reason: that up until this point they have not identified either the victim or the man who they have in custody, Gary Giordano. So as a result, the people on the island only know them by initials.
That`s why today`s change in the posture in the investigation is so important. Because now the authorities say they will publish the names, at least of the man that they`ve detained, and put his picture out there. So this is when they expect to start getting those kind of answers from the public, people who may have seen something. Maybe an altercation.
Also keep in mind, this island has a lot of video cameras on it. This is part of the European nature and their approach to security. There are a lot of video cameras. And you can bet that part of this investigation right now is going back and screening all of those videotapes at the hotels, at the public places. Any place that there may be a camera that caught the two of them together.
PINSKY: Very interesting. We`ll be looking for some of that information.
But coming up here, family of the missing American woman in Aruba begs for her return. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe she`s alive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I`m not giving up.
Nothing is as difficult as not getting on a plane and going to try and find my friend. This truthfully is about a man and a woman that went away on a vacation together, and she didn`t come back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Robyn Gardner`s family beg for her safe return. The American woman has been missing in Aruba for nine days. Not good.
Her boyfriend is here with us, Richard Forester.
Richard, can you tell us about her family and her life? I mean, we`re just trying to understand who she was and primarily why she would even agree to take this trip.
FORESTER: Sure. I know she`s very close with her younger brother. He just recently graduated from college. She`d been a little separated from the family for a little while. I`m not exactly sure why. But just really recently started to reconnect with many of her family members. Her parents, cousins, things like that. And so when she first called...
PINSKY: Let me ask you, Richard. Was she -- was she estranged from her family members prior to that?
FORESTER: No, I don`t think she was estranged. I think that she just was kind of trying to do her own thing and -- and be independent. And -- and just do her thing. She wasn`t estranged. She did nothing to them. They did nothing to her. And just I think that she was just trying to, you know, live her life.
PINSKY: And your relationship with her, I think I asked you this yesterday. You described it as stable. Did it feel close? Did it feel like a close, stable relationship over time?
FORESTER: Over -- with me and her?
PINSKY: You and she, yes.
FORESTER: Yes, absolutely. She knew everything about me. I knew everything about her. We shared everything.
PINSKY: OK. So help us that don`t know her. And we see you`re an upstanding guy. We get the sense of who she is. It`s really hard to get our head around this taking off and the online thing. And I get the alcohol issue. And trust, I love -- alcoholics are very near and dear to me. And so I understand how that might have figured into this. Maybe I`ll talk a bit about that. But -- but it just seems out of character, based on what we know about her so far.
FORESTER: Sure. Sure. Well, it seems very out of character to me, as well. She is a wonderful woman, a very loving woman. She would light - - brighten up a room with her smile. She could make me smile when I`m down, you know, in the worst mood possible. She has a great outlook on life. And she lives every day. She likes to be active. She likes to play tennis. She likes to run. You know, she likes to do things. She doesn`t want to sit idle.
So I mean, as far as her, she`s -- all I can say is she`s a wonderful woman. I love her with every bit of my heart. And...
PINSKY: So this is -- must be terribly, terribly distressing to you that this woman you love has just vanished but was kind of maybe cheating.
FORESTER: Those things are distressing, Dr. Drew. But the most important thing to me is that she`s found, she`s found safe. And then once that happens, she and I can have that discussion of, OK, you know, if this is something you want to do, then you know, do we have a future or not?
Up until then we had talked about a future. We`d talked about finding a place to live together. So I`m just in the dark about this as everybody. But I, you know -- my biggest concern is, you know, bring her back. Let`s get her home. Let`s find her and find out what happened. And move on from there. That`s -- you know, I`m optimistic that she`s out there.
PINSKY: I say my prayers on your behalf that that is true. Let me ask you this. Are you connected to her family? Do you talk to them about what`s happened here?
FORESTER: Over the weekend when her mother was in Aruba, I had a lot of contact with her. I`ve been contacting -- I had some contact with her cousin and her brother, as well.
Robyn, for the most part, for the past, you know, seven or eight months, was living with me, although she kept an apartment in Frederick with her friend, Christina. But she stayed probably six nights, five nights -- usually six nights a week with me. Her cats lived with me. Her clothes were with me. We worked in downtown Bethesda, Maryland, in the same -- within a quarter mile of each other. So we would ride to work together. We`d come home together. We`d get something to eat.
We spent most of our time together when we weren`t at work. On weekends we would try to go away to the beach, try to go to Annapolis. Something along those lines. But we...
PINSKY: Richard, I`m sorry to interrupt. The satellite always makes that very uncomfortable. But you mentioned her work there in Bethesda. Apparently, she`d lost her job recently, is that right? I just wonder -- I wonder if that experience. You know, you guys fighting, I guess, in July or whatever. And you know, now she loses her job. Now she`s sort of fed up with everybody. Do you think that may have figured into her doing something impulsive?
FORESTER: It`s possible. I mean, we`ve had -- we`ve had our fights. But you know, as you know, alcohol will, you know, exacerbate any fight. As soon as we had that argument, I mean, 15 minutes later, you know, we were hugging and kissing and telling each other how much we love each other, and we`re sorry about it.
As far as losing her job, sure, that`s distressing. But, you know, she was confident. I helped her find that job when she got that job. And I was going to do everything I can. I`m a head hunter in accounting and finance, so I know a lot of people. So I was trying to use my resources to help her find a new job. You know, so losing her job...
PINSKY: I totally get it. I get it. I`m with you. And I am increasingly hearing how distressed you are about this and how close this relationship was.
I want to remind people at home this scary Giordano guy is not cooperating. He is in prison, or in jail down there. He apparently had wanted her to go on a cruise. But she declined. I don`t know quite how we know that information, but apparently, that`s out there now. Apparently, he finally got her to agree to go to Aruba. Are these details new to you, as well, Richard?
FORESTER: No. I know about that. Originally, she had told me she was going on a cruise a few -- a couple months ago. And she decided last minute not to go. I don`t know why. I`m glad she didn`t. You know, when she was leaving, she -- I thought she was gone. She showed up at my apartment at 6 in the morning. She said, "I`m here. I`m not going anywhere."
When I`d asked about it, she told me that it was with this scary person. But she told me that he was a gay friend. And at that point, I said, you know, "I still don`t really find that acceptable, for you to be going away with another man, whether he`s a homosexual or not. It`s just not appropriate in a relationship like ours."
And she said, "Well, that`s why I didn`t go. I knew it wasn`t right."
PINSKY: Is there anything else -- I`ve only got less than a minute here -- about her behavior in the past or in any way, high school or college, where she`d done something impulsive that helps us say, "OK, she had this pattern in the past"? It seems so out of character. That`s why I keep driving on this.
FORESTER: It is really out -- it is really of character. And I`m surprised because she, No. 1, she doesn`t like surprises. She doesn`t -- she just doesn`t like surprises. So being impulsive like that, that`s a shock to me.
What I think is this person, you know, got angry with her, maybe threatened her. And she was going to go.
That morning she was leaving, she called me and said she was on her way to my house at 4:30 in the morning. And then she called and said, "No, I`m going to the airport." So there was something going on there. I don`t know what it was. But she was torn. So maybe he was forcing her. I don`t know.
But this person is not a good man. He`s a violent man, and I hope he gets what he`s got coming to him if he`s done something wrong.
PINSKY: Thank you. Thank you, Richard. I know this is a difficult time for you. That last bit of information was very interesting. I`m going to keep my ear to the ground on that, that something was going on. Thanks again, Richard.
We`ll be back with your calls after this.
PINSKY: This missing person mystery out of Aruba has generated lots of comments and questions from you. So let us get right to it.
First, we`ve got Facebook. Brenda asks, "When meeting someone blindly for a potential relationship, any advice as to what some of the first questions you should bring up without sounding too intrusive?"
Listen, don`t worry about sounding too intrusive. I mean, it really depends what we`re talking about here. If this is somebody you have just met, you want to be in a public place. You want to ask every question.
If it`s somebody you`re getting to know, what I would say is court and police records and a medicine cabinet you can find an awful lot about somebody.
And then -- you`re laughing but it`s true.
And also family of origin issues. What is that guy? What was your upbringing like? You need to know that. And it`s not being intrusive. It`s just seeing who somebody is. And that`s what intimacy is. Being close, seeing into the sea, we call. And that requires being completely honest and open about who you are.
Fran writes, "Explain why you said meeting someone online is a recipe for trouble. I hear many successful stories coming from online dating sites."
Online dating sites -- let me make this distinction -- are different than meeting somebody online. Dating sites are vetted. People do have good results with those. But just meeting somebody in a chat room or through Twitter or something, that`s the recipe for disaster.
Let me go to the phones. This is Valerie in Canada. Valerie, go ahead.
CALLER: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Valerie.
CALLER: About the woman in Aruba who went missing, when she met somebody online and went down to see him, she probably got down there and realized that he wasn`t what she thought she was. And she`s such a beautiful woman, and this man probably wasn`t going to give her up. And she thought that she could just leave, go back to the United States. You know, she had to end up paying the piper. And that wasn`t going to happen.
And he wanted her and she didn`t want him. And he probably just wanted to take her and accidentally killed her.
PINSKY: Boy, it could be more than accidentally, Valerie, unfortunately. But I think you`re on to something here.
And we just heard something from her boyfriend that was sort of interesting. There was some sort of back and forth during the early morning hours. I had not heard that part of the story before. So I want to really look into that a bit further.
And you`re right. It sounds like she was kind of trying to get away from him. And he was not about to let her go, for lack of a better way of describing it.
We`ve got a Twitter here. Jennifer tweeted us, "Would you agree that in today`s world Internet dating has become one of the easiest places for someone to cheat on their significant other?"
Well, it kind of depends what you mean by cheating. Right? I mean, some people would say that any kind of intimate conversation online would be cheating. Some people, it`s exchanging and sexting, that kind of nonsense. And some people make arrangements and go in meeting someone.
Yes. It has created a much bigger marketplace and a much greater opportunity. And some of it can be very covert, because it`s on your phone. It`s something people don`t often think about. I agree with you. It`s something to be aware of.
One last quick here from Jennifer. A Twitter -- I`m sorry, it`s a Facebook from Helen, who writes, "Gary Giordano had faced allegations of domestic abuse before. Explain why some women don`t report this until it may be too late."
In the few seconds I have left, let me just say that is part of the domestic violence syndrome. When women are being abused, they blame themselves. They feel they`ve got a special relationship with the man and that it`s going to get better, and he loves them so much. That`s why he behaves like that. Nonsense. Report it.
Later, a mother of triplets has been missing for more than two months. What happened to her?
But first you won`t believe an official report about Casey and Caylee Anthony. Then, again you just might. Back after this.
PINSKY: Officials in Florida conclude something most of America already knew: Casey Anthony failed to protect Caylee. Why did it take them three years? And a new poll has Casey as the most hated person in America. Who did she beat out for first?
And later, a mother of triplets disappears without a trace. Police are questioning her estranged husband, and I`m talking to her parents about the shocking developments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): And we`ve got amazing, shocking, new breaking Casey Anthony news. Tonight, the state of Florida released a report that says Casey Anthony failed to protect her child from harm. OK. Thanks, Florida. Twelve-page report from the Department of Children and Family Services that was conducted three years ago, again, finally released today. The ruling on Casey`s probation is expected tomorrow. We`ll probably be looking into that a bit. Not much of a surprise, I know, to those of you who believe Casey was guilty in the death of her daughter, Caylee.
And get this, a new e-mark and poll reveals a list of the most hated people in America, here are the top five. First of all, the fifth is Jon Gosselin, reality TV star. Fourth, you know him. O.J. Simpson. Number three, Nadya Suleman. Number two, the star of the "Hills," Spencer Pratt. And the number one most hated person in America is, surprise, it is Casey Anthony.
Here to talk with us about all this are Robert Dick who provided security for Casey Anthony, Mark Eiglarsh, former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney, and Mark Lippman, attorney for Cindy and George Anthony. Mark Lippman, were there any comments today from Cindy or George regarding this DCF report?
MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR CINDY AND GEORGE ANTHONY: No. We never got a copy of the report. I`ve just been actually told by media about it. So, I haven`t sent it to my clients. I`m sure they`re hearing about it just like I am, but there`s no comment about it right now.
PINSKY: Fair enough. Two days ago, I think people aware would have been Caylee`s sixth birthday. Mourners gathered at the site where Caylee`s remains were found. The big surprise was the appearance of Caylee`s grandparents. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: If it can bring some closure and some peace to people, then we`ll be fine with that, because we need to move forward as a community and as a people.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S father: This today is for the other missing children out there need to come home. That`s what it`s all about. Caylee is going to be the focal point to bring them here, but the other kids need to come home, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Mark Lippman, the Anthonys, George and Cindy, seem much happier if that`s the word, calmer. How are they doing?
LIPPMAN: It was a difficult day for them on the eighth, and then, also - yes, this whole week`s been difficult for them. I think it settled in yesterday, and they just had a difficult day getting through the day yesterday, but certainly, you know, the event was right down the street from their house. They just -- they wanted to see how it went. And, they weren`t intending on giving any sort of press conferences or speeches or anything like that, but they were just really moved emotionally that day.
PINSKY: It seems like they look solid together. There`s sort of a unity there. They`re doing OK as a relationship?
LIPPMAN: Yes. I mean, certainly, I`m not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but as far as I can tell, their relationship is stronger than ever.
PINSKY: Mark Eiglarsh, I want to go to you about this DCS report. Does it mean anything? Does it lead to any other kinds of action on the part of the state?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. I was reading through the report, and I was blowing my nose at the same time, and I think both items have about the same amount of weight. You know, I couldn`t understand why now, why now, the report was released. And then, it occurred to me that DCF does not protect the children that they`re supposed to protect.
And, you know, this delay in the report is not shocking. I mean, next you`re going to tell me that, you know, maybe octomom shouldn`t have any more children? You know, no surprise there.
PINSKY: Mark Eiglarsh, very insightful with those octomom comments. I was thinking --
EIGLARSH: Too soon? Too soon?
PINSKY: Too soon. I don`t think she might need some more kids. But let`s go back -- are you -- I think I heard you issue an indictment against the sort of functioning of the DCS system down there? Is that what I heard?
EIGLARSH: I`m not a pioneer in that regard. You should read -- I just Google it and see what`s happened under their watch. Let`s just say this. I think even they would concede that there`s room for improvement.
PINSKY: So, the fact that it took them three years -- hang on a second. So, Mark Eiglarsh, if it took them three years to come up with this report, had Caylee survived, God only knows what might have happened next, and DCS would have not been able to intervene in any meaningful way?
EIGLARSH: I don`t necessarily count on DCF to do anything. I think there are some well-intentioned folks there, but there`ve been some very high profile cases resulting in very alarming reaction by myself and others. And again, look into them.
PINSKY: And let me just say. You know, I know what these systems are like. They`re usually overburdened and underfunded. It`s not for lack of attempt. They`re trying. Mark, can we, at least, say that? Mark Eiglarsh?
EIGLARSH: Absolutely. I believe that there`s some probably. I don`t know these individuals, but as a whole, obviously, I`ve expressed my feelings. Individually, these might be some very loving people. I have no idea.
PINSKY: I think I heard your feelings. Usually, you`re holding back, but I think I deciphered a point of view in that. Robert Dick, I`d like to go to you. You were her security guard for a time. My question is, is the fact that she now registers as the most hated person in America tell you something about the danger she is in? Or does that sort of ranking raise people`s anger towards her and make her even more of a target?
ROBERT DICK, PROVIDED SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Well, yes. Here`s the problem, Dr. Drew. You know, she`s a very likable person. She puts off a very, you know, happy-go-lucky, nice person to anyone, OK? The problem is is that, I think, she was supposed to come off as this victim, abused. Oh, I can`t explain what happened and everything else. Well, that only worked for 12 people in the room.
The rest of the world truly hates her, I believe. I mean, and that`s going to be her problem. And that does promote some danger. I mean, there`s some nuts out there, and they may take it into their own hands.
PINSKY: And Robert, you were the one that spent probably the most time, I guess, of this panel -- the only one that`s actually spent time face-to-face with her. How would she -- or how do you think she`s feeling about being named the most hated person in America? I know that she was very interested in the limelight. Does she care what collar that limelight is?
DICK: Well, unfortunately, I don`t think she gets it. She`s relishing in the, you know, attention. She loves the attention. And I think good or bad, she`s going to think it`s just look at me, you know? And that`s the problem, because, you know, same thing I`ve said before. You know, when she`s with me or with Tracey the whole time, it`s like nothing`s going on, happy.
I mean, if you could imagine someone that`s always in a great mood, facing nicknames (ph) for the cruise director, she`s always in a great mood. You know, you just have to put away everything that`s going on. Forget about a dead child and forget about everything else, and hey, it`s a great day. I mean, it`s just tough. I don`t know.
PINSKY: Last question to you. I`ve got about 30 seconds. Any speculation, Robert, on what she`s up to now?
DICK: I think, right now, with what they`re saying that she`s getting counseling and things like that, I think what I`ve said before that, you know, you can see there`s something wrong with her, if she would have came out and told a story or anything else, you`d see right through it. If she didn`t put on the stand, you`d see right through it. She`s trying to get counseling right now to actually be a functioning human being, I think.
PINSKY: I have to register and weigh in that -- those reports about treatment are, I don`t know, they may be overstated, I think. I don`t know. They don`t pass the sniff test for me, but --
DICK: Yes, I don`t believe -- I don`t believe it`s a helping -- I don`t believe it`s something to help her. I believe it`s something to help her appearance.
PINSKY: Well, perhaps. Thank you to Mark, Mark, and Robert.
Next, a Missouri mom of five-year-old triplets, and I have a special affinity for this story, vanishes after a visit from her estranged husband. Jacque Waller has been missing for over two months. We will talk to her mom and sister after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After four o`clock on Wednesday, we have Miss Waller, basically, telling loved ones that she`s here now, and that was some of the last words we had from her. That, I am here now. Meaning, I`m at Mr. Waller`s residence to pick up my child, and that was pretty much the last contact that she had with anyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Tonight, five-year-old triplets, Maddox, Avery, and Addison are still without their mother, Jacque Waller. She vanished on June 1st after visiting her estranged husband, Clay. Kind of choke on this story because I, too, am a father of triplets, though, my kids are mostly grown. But I will tell you what, this one hits close to home, and triplet parenting is not easy. And as often happens to many, triplet parents, thank God not me and my wife, but this couple broke, and they were in the midst of a divorce. Here`s what we know. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Three children, two parents, one mystery. It started two months ago when Jacque Waller drove to her husband`s house to pick up their son. Just one problem. The boy wasn`t even there. Her husband, Clay, said they argued, and she stormed off. Her car later found abandoned. Jacque`s family says she vanished the day she was finalizing her divorce. They believe her husband was responsible.
Now, they`re faced with two nightmarish possibilities. One, an unidentified body pulled from the Mississippi River. The other, a body buried in cement. Clay, a former cop, worked in construction. And police may now probe cement area sites where he had worked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): Now, I`m going to stress that, although, Jacque`s estrange husband, Clay Waller, remains in police custody, he`s being held on unrelated charges for theft and harassment. He is not a suspect at this time, but, Missouri law enforcement officials are calling him a person of interest.
Joining me are Jacque Waller`s mom, Ruby, and Jacque`s sister, Cheryl Brenneke. Ruby and Cheryl, thank you so much for joining us. As you heard, I have triplet kids, and I know how hard triplet parenting is. Ruby, I want to ask you a tough question to start out with. Do you hold out hope that your daughter`s alive?
RUBY RAWSON, JACQUE WALLER`S MOTHER: No. I wish I could, but he`s been threatening her for a year. And, I think that was his chance to do what he was going to do. And I think he did it.
PINSKY: I must tell you, I`m chilled by hearing you say that. What is it that he has threatened?
RAWSON: He threatened to kill her. He told her he could do it, and he could get by with it. He said that -- and he also threatened the children. She told me several times that he had told her that. And I said Jacque, this man`s been in our family for 18 years. I can`t believe what you`re telling me. She said oh, yes, mom. I think he`ll do it. And we just didn`t know what to think.
RAWSON: We were in shock.
PINSKY: Now, Ruby, I want to point out to our viewers that we can`t confirm what you`re reporting, but it is very chilling. How long were these kinds of threats going on?
RAWSON: I think for about the last year. I was only aware of it for about the last three or four months. She told me. But, I think she had told her sister before that what was going on.
PINSKY: What caused him to, shall we say, get work himself into this state? And Cheryl, if you know anything, please ring in here.
CHERYL BRENNEKE, JACQUE WALLER`S SISTER: Oh. I mean, she told me everything. She lived with me since March. We were very close. And she told me everything, basically. And, I mean, we had just countless conversations about his threats. And he -- she was trying to --
PINSKY: Cheryl, let me interrupt you. Were you -- I mean, was there some recent conflict or has there been some domestic violence in that relationship for a long time? I mean, what got them to this point?
BRENNEKE: Well, he`s always been a very narcissistic person. I mean, absolutely ridiculous. And, before they had children, it just wasn`t much of a factor. I mean, she could tolerate it. You know, it was all about Clay. And, she had that what do you call it? The codependent personality where -- and she admits it, you know?
And you know, she`d always admitted that she was codependent, and you know, she felt like she had to take care of him and everything, because he was just so useless, basically. He couldn`t take care of anything, and she took care of everything.
PINSKY: OK. I want to point out that we -- I`m sorry to interrupt you again. For my viewers, there`s a delay, and it always seems like I`m interrupting my satellite participants here. Now, I want to point out that we reached out to Clay Waller`s attorney, Scott Reynolds. His response was no comment when he was asked about his client`s involvement in his wife`s disappearance.
However, in a recent statement to ABC News, Reynolds denied that Clay Waller threatened his estrange wife. He flat out denied what we`re hearing from the family now, but here is what he told them. Quote, "We deny those threats were made, but even if they were, they happen in cases I handle every day. It doesn`t mean that somebody`s going to follow through with it."
Ruby, that comment is almost as chilling to me as what you said to me. That is when somebody -- I don`t know about the state, I guess it`s -- what state are you guys in?
PINSKY: You`re in Missouri. In California you can`t threaten to kill somebody. That`s not OK. And by the way, that`s domestic violence. That`s also not OK. What is going on here? He has remained silent about this. I want to say that he did make these comments. This is now Clay. He made these comments to a CNN affiliate, KFVS in Missouri. Watch what he says here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAY WALLER, HUSBAND OF MISSING WOMAN: Just miss my wife and my kids. And we`re just -- we`re just -- trying to fight to see them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think you`ll get that?
WALLER: Well, I hope so. I mean, it`s been a hard time for us all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Wow. No eye contact. I know, Cheryl and Ruby, you can`t quite see that, but it was a little bit telling the body language there.
BRENNEKE: We`ve seen it. Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. Again, this is all very chilling to me. Now, Ruby, I want to ask you. Had you talked to clay at all since your daughter`s disappearance?
RAWSON: The last time I talked to Clay was the night that she disappeared. I had called him several times, and he didn`t answer. Finally at 11 o`clock, he did return my phone call, and he asked me and said what`s going on, and I said, you know what`s going on. What did you do to her? I didn`t do anything to her. I said, yes, you did.
And we know you did. And he said, no, I didn`t. I said, Clay, you`ve been threatening her for a year. We know you did something. Now, what did you do? Well, I just didn`t do anything. And that was all he would say.
PINSKY: Ruby, this is so hard to hear. Now, Cheryl, your former brother-in-law works in construction, apparently, and law enforcement has confirmed that they`re investigating the possibility that Jacque`s remains were disposed in cement. Is that something this guy is capable of?
BRENNEKE: Oh, he`s very capable of anything, yes. He thinks he`s smarter than the rest of us. And he had a long time to plan this. She`d been trying to slowly work her way out of this marriage for the last year and just to keep him on an even keel until she thought she could move slow enough that he wouldn`t -- you know, that she could get out of it without getting dead, as she would say. And -- but --
PINSKY: Cheryl. Wait, wait, wait. Cheryl, Cheryl, Cheryl. She actually would say I need to get out of this without getting dead?
BRENNEKE: No. What she would say was -- let`s see. There`s just so much. He thinks he`s smart enough to get by with it. And I just don`t want to be dead. She said that many times. What are some of them? I mean, we`ve said them so many times.
BRENNEKE: It`s just ridiculous.
PINSKY: Well, ladies, we`re going to stay with you. We`re going to stay with you to this next segment. I thank you so much for being so honest and sharing this. It is such a -- a chilling is the only word I`ve (ph) experienced I`m having here. I will talk further with Jacque`s family about the triplets, Maddox, Avery, and Addison and about how they`re doing and how this is going through their life when we come back.
PINSKY: Jacque Waller is the missing mother of five-year-old triplets. She simply vanished on June 1st and has not been seen since. Although, her estranged husband, Clay Waller, has not been named a suspect, certainly, her family speak that he might become one. Law enforcement officials in Missouri say that he is, in fact, a quote, "person of interest," unquote.
I`m back with Ruby Waller. She is Jacque`s mother and Cheryl Brenneke, she is Jacque`s sister. Now, Ruby, on Saturday, apparently, there`s a volunteer search planned for your daughter. The support from the community must really mean a lot to you.
RAWSON: Absolutely. We have gotten so much support from the community. We have a Facebook page. It`s find Jacque Waller, and there`s over almost 14,000 people on there now. So, we`ve just really been encouraged. I tell you. If it hadn`t been for all the support, I don`t know if we could have made it this far, because it is really tough. We miss her so much.
PINSKY: I bet. Oh, my goodness. And Cheryl, I want to talk about the kids. I guess, you`re stepping in a bit. You took the triplets shopping for school clothes this morning. How are they doing?
BRENNEKE: They`re doing OK. They`re fantastic kids. And, it`s hard. It`s really hard. We just keep them busy. And we`ve got -- they go to a fantastic therapist. And, she cares very much about getting them through this. And, they really connect well with her. And, they`re doing pretty good. Nighttime is the hardest.
PINSKY: It`s going to be you, two ladies, that determine the emotional well being of these kids. I hats off to you. Cheryl, I heard they`re also trying to keep their mom`s memory alive. Can you tell me about that?
BRENNEKE: The kids? Yes. We keep her -- you know, we`re always talking. I mean, we were picking out shoes this morning at the store. And we were talking about which ones mommy would like. And, you know, they`re just -- she`s in our everyday conversations. I will do my very best to make sure that they do not forget their mother.
PINSKY: Ladies, Cheryl, Ruby, thank you so much for joining us. This is a story that`s going to stay with me. It`s very close to home. And your strength and perseverance, it`s inspiring. But, oh, my goodness, this is sad. I`m so sorry. Thank you, ladies.
RAWSON: Thank you.
PINSKY: I`ve got something I need to say before we go here about missing persons. Now, listen to this. It`s important commentary tonight. According to the justice department, about 800,000 children are reported missing each and every year, 2,000 a day. A quarter of those are family abductions. Then, there are the thousands upon thousands of adults who just simply vanish. We covered a couple of those cases tonight. Sadly, we cannot get to them all, but that is where you come in.
If you know something, have seen something, suspect something, by all means, speak up. I mean, it`s not being nosy. It`s not being a snitch. It`s being helpful and caring.
Thank you for watching. I appreciate you being here for this. It`s been a very challenging series of stories. We will stay with them, and I hope you`ll stay with us. We`ll see you next time.