Return to Transcripts main page


GOP Candidates Face Crucial Test in Iowa; Chaos Erupts on Streets of Aleppo

Aired August 12, 2011 - 20:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: John thanks very much. Good evening, everyone.

We begin with Texas Governor Rick Perry, you're looking in a podium in Alabama, where he is about to speak as a fund raiser on the eve of an announcement that he's entering the presidential race, a move that's already shaking up the Republican field and could spell trouble for candidate Obama. A part of Governor's Perry's pitch to voters is what his supporters call the "Texas miracle", creating jobs in a recession, balancing the Texas budget and standing up to Washington but is all of that true?

Tonight we're keeping them honest. First the jobs.


GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: We created more jobs than any other state in the nation, as a matter of fact, in the last two years we have created almost half of all the jobs created in America.


COOPER: That's Governor Perry yesterday. You are going to hear that a lot in the weeks and months ahead. We checked with the bureau of labor statistics and his numbers, do, in fact ad up. Texas created about 262,000 jobs between the summer of 2009 and now that's out of 524,000 jobs nationwide. But the bureau of labor statistics says many of those jobs were for the minimum wage, minimum wage jobs have more than doubled in Texas over the last four years. And also Texas is creating many jobs in part because the population is growing so fast, up more than 4 million since Rick Perry took office. That means more people buying goods and services and more jobs. Some of the people boost in the Texas' economy come illegally across the border.

According to the Texas association of business, illegal immigrant labor pumps in about $17 billion a year which in turn also creates more jobs.

Another job creating factor federal stimulus money either going straight into state and local construction projects or as he did over the last two years to cover 90 percent of the state budget deficit. Still in as much as jobs are jobs Governor Perry is on solid factual grounds with his claim.

Now however, on the balance, on the budget balance though he was claiming victory on that as we saw it yesterday.


PERRY: And that's exactly what we've done in Texas, some very simple but very effective principles of keeping our taxes low and our regulatory climate fair and predictable, legal system that doesn't allow for over-suing and starting out by not spending all the money. We left $6 billion in our rainy day fund in Texas, so we've got a decade's worth of experience.


COOPER: He's saying he balanced the state budget while keeping taxes low without dipping into emergency money. However, he did it by taking big money from Washington.

Back in June of 2009, when Governor Perry was signing the 2010- 2011 budgets, Texas was $6.6 billion in the red. It also had a rainy day fund to cover that shortfall. But instead of using the fund, Texas lawmakers in the Perry administration filled the gap with $6.4 billion of federal stimulus money. Keep in mind, that's how the governor could truthfully say he balanced the budget without touching the rainy day fund.

At the same time though he was taking billions in federal money he was railing against the federal government. Earlier that year, he even posted a blog headlined "help us turn the tide in Washington and stop these irresponsible bailouts." that post went up the same day he requested the federal money.

Here answer the letter he wrote to president Obama "please allow this letter to certify we will accept the funds in H.R. 1, the stimulus and use them to promote economic growth and create jobs in a physically responsible manner that is in the best interest of Texas' taxpayers." Now, in that letter, the governor did say he opposed the stimulus and took the money. Eight months later and right up to this day he continues to speak out against federal money and the state officials who take it.


PERRY: Americans are fed up with Democrats and Republicans who have embraced bailouts, championed so-called stimulus programs and supported big government giveaways.


COOPER: Governor Perry has also published a book titled "fed up, our fight to save America from Washington" and during that period Governor Perry was talking openly about the possibility of breaking away from Washington. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: We got to break, there's absolutely no reason to dissolve but if Washington continues to thumb their noses at American people who knows what might come out of that. When we came to the nation in 1845, we were a republic, we were a standalone nation. And one of the deals was we can leave any time we want. So we're kind of thinking about that again.



COOPER: But two years later the stimulus funds with dried up and there are no longer billions of federal dollars to help Texas out. Now, in the last month Governor Perry signed a new budget this time with deep cuts affecting millions of cuts.

Joining us now Eric Erickson, editor in chide of "," he will be hosting Rick Perry tomorrow at Redstate gallery at Charles in South Carolina it will be a fascinating day.

Also, Political Analyst in Texas Roland Martin and Mimi Swartz, executive editor of "Texas monthly" magazine.

So, Mimi you live in Texas. You've been covering Rick Perry now. Will his jobs claim and budget claims hold up under campaign scrutiny?

MIMI SWARTZ, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, TEXAS MONTHLY: I don't think so. When you look at what's happened to the way people live here, our economy is really going to be suffering. Once those budget cuts kick in I think you are going see a whole lot more employment maybe in time for the election.

COOPER: Eric does it sound there's double talk on accepting stimulus, his perspective on stimulus or accepting stimulus money?

ERIC ERIKSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes I think there is. But I would keep in mind that every governor who was opposed to the stimulus resultantly wound up keeping the money, in fact a lot of them did it because of pressure from state legislature or in some cases I think Texas is one of them, their democratic delegation that we won't give you money for education unless you take stimulus funding and Texas was affected by several. So yes he is going to explain that on the trail. You could expect a Mitt Romney ad coming very soon on the issue.

COOPER: Roland, there have been a lot of new jobs created in Texas and jobs are the top priority with voters right now.

RONALD S. MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely. But here's one of the issues when we saw this in 2008 with Senator Obama and Senator Clinton were campaigning in Texas but then he had to go to Ohio.

Texas has benefited also from NAFTA. NAFTA is not popular in states like South Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan, and so he is going to have to also explain that.

But to Erick's point, I think is also you must examine that. You can't stand here and talk about no, decry stimulus funds but you accept them. And also in Texas Republicans control the house and the Senate. So it's not like Rick Perry actually had to do it. If he wanted to say no to stimulus funds he could have said so but he didn't.

COOPER: Is that the case, Mimi?

SWARTZ: I would assume so. I'm just thinking about quality of life here and again what people are really going to see once reporters start digging into the way life is lived here. The poor air quality, the poor health care, you know we're way down at the bottom of all of those things. I hate to see it, you know, I hate to see Texas dragged through the mud when it but I think we're in for it.

COOPER: Erick how strong candidate do you see Rick Perry? When you look at Republican feel that as it now, as it is now, and who thus he most immediately affect by entering?

ERIC ERIKSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, REDSTATE.COM: I think Rick Perry would probably be a strong candidate. He has going to wither a storm probably for the first couple of weeks. So people understand, he is not a paper tanker and if they see that he's not, then yes, I really think he'll impact Mitt Romney largely because of the impact on someone like Tim Pawlenty or Michele Bachmann, pulling people away from them.

Mitt Romney seems to be capped out nationally a quarter of the Republican primary vote. And if Perry can cause consolidation then that pushes Mitt Romney's the physiological fact he's the nominee down further.

COOPER: Its instinct, Roland you look at the latest poll this week and puts Rick Perry five points behind President Obama, it's obviously very early, these polls are a snapshot. But should the White House be worried about him?

MARTIN: No, because I think frankly you have to get through the Republican primary first. If you go back to 2004 a generic democratic candidate was leading President George W. Bush in the polls and we saw what happened in November.

And so, the polls are one thing. You still have to run the race. Remember former Senator Fred Thompson, look what happened in 2008, Republicans were in love with him, he crashed and burned. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, same thing, they loved him. He crashed and burned. I don't believe Governor Perry is the same. He will be an active campaigner. But again, he will also pull from there's a tea party from Michele Bachmann. Rick Santorum has placed his whole agenda on social conservatives. Rick Perry pulls from him. If he's able to craft a strong economic message he greatly impacts Mitt Romney. So he impacts three or four candidates beyond just one candidate.

COOPER: We're going to leave it there. Erick Erickson, Mimi Swartz Thanks so much. Roland Martin thanks very much. Good to have you all in the program.

You've heard people called Rick Perry, George W. Bush on steroids. And if you heard that, the reality though it's a lot more complicated and the relationship is fascinating, take a look, reportedly there's been bad blood all around.

Jim Acosta has the raw politics tonight.


PERRY: Amen.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Rick Perry a question keeps coming up, not whether he's running for president, but whether he's running from a certain president named George W. Bush.

PERRY: I called him on his birthday.

ACOSTA: This week. Perry told "Time" magazine there's no bad blood with the man he replaced as governor from Texas in.


PERRY: Not from my perspective and certainly not between George W. Bush and I.

ACOSTA: But go to you tube and you'll find a different story.

Four years ago speaking on behalf of Rudy Giuliani's failed campaign in 2008, Perry slammed his predecessor.

PERRY: George Bush was never a fiscal conservative, never was. Wasn't when he was in Texas?

If Washington won't protect our border, Texas will.

ACOSTA: In his run for relocation in '06, Perry blasted Washington on illegal immigration and later clarified in an interview which Washington he meant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Which Washington are you criticizing, the Republican controlled Congress or Republican controlled White House?

PERRY: All of them. And the fact of the matter is everyone is complicit in not addressing this issue.

MARTIN FROST (D), FMR TEXAS CONGRESSMAN: From Rick Perry, he's willing to say and do whatever he is required. And if it means to ruin George Bush under the bus, he'll do it.

ACOSTA: Former Texas Congressman Democrat Martin Frost says if Perry has a Bush problem -

PERRY: Football, cotton, barbecue, it's a great time of the year.

ACOSTA: It's that he's too much like him.

FROST: If you close your eyes and listen to Governor Perry, he sounds like Governor Bush.


FROST: He drops his Gs, has some of the same word choice so they sound very much alike.

ACOSTA: Is all of that authentic?

FROST: I think it's authentic.

ACOSTA: They both grew up in West Texas. Both have ranches. Perry grew up on one in the tiny town of Pan Creek. Bush has Crawford. Texas political experts say that may explain why Perry has worked so hard to step out of Bush's shadow.

PERYY: I don't think there's anything wrong with respectfully disagreeing with someone I highly admire. I love George Bush. I think he's a great president and I support him.

ACOSTA: He's also governed to the right of Bush. Slashing state budget and courting tea party Republicans.

JAMES HENSON, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: All of that was an effort to rebrand, if you will, Texas as Rick Perry's Texas rather than George W. Bush's Texas. Looking forward to a possible campaign clearly Governor Perry is going to need distance from President Bush.

ACOSTA: Perry isn't the only one doing the distancing, when Perry ran for re-election last year, Bush's father and his vice president both supported Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison in what was a bitter primary challenge.

ARI LEISCHER, FMR BUSH PRESS SECRETARY: I think in the stuff level there is a certain tension between some of the Texas staffers for George W. Bush and Governor Perry's staffers.

ACOSTA: But former Bush Press Secretary Ari Fleischer says that there's no scandal in Perry wanting to be his own man.

FLEISCHER: Part of running for office is establishing your identity, sometimes it means you reinforce that which came before you and sometimes you differ, I suspect we'll see both of those with Governor Perry.

ACOSTA: In his speech Perry is expected to tout his economic record but Democrats in the state point out that record has never been tested on a national stage. That process has just begun.

Jim Acosta, CNN, Charleston, South Carolina.


COOPERL: Let us know what you think on face book or follow me on twitter @andersoncooper. I'll be tweeting tonight.

Up next, the first big test for GOP candidates tomorrow, some of the most interests moments from the debate last night as well plus Sarah Palin showing up in Iowa for the straw poll.

The question is she now just seeking publicity or does she have a reason to be there?

Candy Crowley and John King join me in a moment.

And later, the latest from Syria, the resistance not backing down even in the face of truly staggering brutality, now kidnapping children to punish their parents who protest.



COOPER: Dramatic video from today.

First, let's checked in with Isha Sesay. Isha?

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs is now in prison serving a life sentence for having sex with minors. We'll play some of the tape evidence that sent him there. It's quite frankly chilling. That's not the half of it. You'll hear from ex-followers as they explain how he became a cult- like leader, bill a harem and still worship by his followers today.

That and much more when "360" continues.


COOPER: I'm laughing because we have a funny ridiculous thing in the program at the end, it's on my mind.

The first big event to the presidential campaign gets under way tomorrow, the Ames Straw Poll in the Campus of Iowa State University. Now, Republicans from all across the state expect to weigh in, the vote is nonbinding obviously but influential especially in weeding out the more marginal candidates.

Front runner Mitt Romney is not taking part nor of course Rick Perry nor is Sarah Palin who is not even a candidate and may not be at all a candidate but she is in Iowa. Surprise, making the rounds today at the state fair in Des Moines where she was asked if she'll be on the ballot for 2012. She said she doesn't yet know. She and Rick Perry were also the two biggest figures making themselves felt last night at the GOP debate last night in Ames. In case you missed it here it is again boiled down to that about a minute or so of key moments.


REP. MICHEL BACHMANN, MINNESOTA: People are looking for a champion. They want someone who has been fighting. FORMER GOV. TIM PAWLENTY (R ), MINNESOTA: It's an indisputable fact that in Congress, her record of accomplishment and results is nonexistent.

BACHMANN: When you were governor in Minnesota, you implemented cap and trade in our state. You said the era of small government was over. That sounds a lot more like Barack Obama if you ask me.

HERMAN CAIN, FMR CEO, GODFATHER'S PIZZA: America's got to learn how to take a joke.

MITT ROMNEY, FMR MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: Look I'm not going to eat Barack Obama's dog food. What he served up was not what I would have done if I had been president of the United States.

NEWT GINGRICH, FMR HOUSE SPEAKER: 4.2 percent unemployment. That's my credential.

BACHMANN: I need to respond to that.

GINGRICH: I'd love to see the rest of tonight's debate asking us about what we would do to lead an America whose president has failed to lead instead of playing Mickey Mouse games.


COOPER: Tomorrow the straw poll which again could be a make or break for the candidates. Just before air time I spoke with Candy Crowley who is in Iowa and John King who will be heading there for the weekend.


COOPER: So John, with in the straw poll, I mean it can give a candidate momentum. It can boost fundraising but doesn't predict necessary future success. Mitt Romney won it back in 2007 and lost the Iowa caucus. So what is tomorrow really about?

JOHN KING, ANCHO, JOHN KING USA: It has no official role Anderson in the nominating process. It plays out some what like a circus act but the straw poll has a history of sending some well regarded candidates to the side lines.

If you're somebody like Rick Santorum, the former senate from Pennsylvania, he told Candy Crowley today if he's not in the top five he's probably done. Why? If you're trying to get your footing, you are trying to line up activists. You're trying to let a fund-raising even though this event doesn't count a lot of people that will look at it and see will you be viable down the road.

COOPER: So, Candy, Santorum said that to you. I mean I guess it's really judged as a candidate's strength the turnout there, the kind of resources they can put into this event.

CANDY CROWLEY, ANCHOR, STATE ON THE UNION: Exactly it measures organizational skills yes but also sort of tests your fund rising ability because listen, let's say Tim Pawlenty, he spent $1 million in this. This is a very important moment for Tim Pawlenty.

Rick Santorum doesn't have that kind of money. So, he's been using shoe leather. I mean he said look, we've bought some tickets for some people but we can sync as $30 a ticket, you're talking about a pretty big state and trying to bring people on buses down here.

So candidates you know, usually supply the tickets, supply the bus transportation, supply the food when they get down here, and that takes a pretty well-healed candidate.

COOPER: And John for Pawlenty, I mean Iowa is really I guess make or break. He went after Michele Bachmann last night at the debates. She's obviously been leading in the polls and turned the place some already said.

KING: She got a record of misstating and making false statements. So that's another example of that list. She says that she's fighting for these things. She fought for less government spending. We got a lot more. She led the effort against Obama care, we got Obama care. She led the effort against T.A.R.P., we got T.A.R.P. She said she got titanium spine, it's not her spine we're about, it a record of result. If that's your view of effective leadership with results, please, stop, because you're killing us.

COOPER: So what kind of showing does Pawlenty need to have tomorrow in order to remain viable?

KING: The motto of Minnesota is Minnesota nice that was a little Minnesota spice.

Look, Congressman Bachmann is from Governor Pawlenty's home state. She's under his skin because she ahead of him in the polls in Iowa. As you know, he's from neighboring Minnesota. He is organized probably on the ground as well as if not better than anybody in Iowa if you talk to the expert out there. Governor Pawlenty would like to win. He really needs to win, if he comes in second or third it better be close to the top or else the money will dry out.

COOPER You know it seems it's interesting to see Sarah Palin showing up trying to create a buzz in Iowa, at a certain point, unless she's declared candidate, I mean doesn't she start to look like she's just chasing cameras?

CROWLEY: Sure. And we may have passed that point, yes. I mean listen, we certainly that is already out there. She did the same thing a couple of months ago, sort of raining on Mitt Romney's announcement that he was going to run in New Hampshire while she was taking a bus tour sort of up the east coast so this is the sort of thing that she's done. She does attract the cameras. It was a mad scene here when she showed up in Iowa today at this Iowa state fair.

She says listen, you know, I'm not, someone asked her that very question, are you just trying to get the attention, trying to draw attention from them and she basically said you guys are here, go away, go find somebody else, which we're not likely to do as she knows. COOPER: So, John, Newt Gingrich's campaign has obviously been full of messes, been limping along campaign his entire staff you know leaving. He was asked about it last night, really a fascinating moment.

Let's watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you respond to people who say that your campaign has been a mess so far?

GINGRICH: Well let me say first of all, Chris, that I took seriously Bret's injunction to put aside the talking points and I wish you would put aside the gotcha questions.


COOPER: Gotcha question is so just I mean that term, Sarah Palin uses that term when you when you just ask basic questions, that wasn't a gotcha question. I mean, Newt Gingrich cannot have been surprised to have been asked about his imploding campaign.

KING: He was not surprised but he was clearly irritated. It's not a gotcha question if you want to be the chief executive of the United States you're accountable for your campaign and when your staff resigns. That thus reflects on the chief executive.

His point was I know I'm on the end here. I know I'm not one of the front-runners. I know I'm going to get three maybe four questions. Why don't you ask me about the economy and tax cuts and the debt or Afghanistan or America's place in the world?

So, that's his frustration as a candidate who is struggling. And you could see his frustration last night. It was a strong performance but he is being squeezed out. I think largely just because he is yesterday's news to many Republicans.

COOPER: Candy Crowley, John king thanks very much.

KING: Thank you.


COOPER: Still ahead Syria erupting, tens of thousands of protester reportedly taking to the streets. Government security forces firing at them. We some remarkable video. Some protesters calling for President Bashar al-Assad's death. They're now kidnapping the children to punish the parents who are protesting.

I'll talk to human rights activist who is monitoring the situation.

Also, crime and punishment tonight, the audio tapes that brought some jurors to tears in Warren Jeffs sexual assault trial. They've just been released, they are incredibly disturbing. This is Warren Jeffs talking to girls, some of them under-age minors about pleasuring him. Here's some of what he said.


WAREN JEFFS, POLYGAMIST LEADER, FLDS: You ladies don't know how men out in the world are (inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're glad we don't know.



COOPER: Syria's government renewed its crackdown today, basically thumbing its nose at the international out cry. Hama were military troops patrol earlier this week and cities across the country, plain clothed security forces, thugs reportedly open fire to break-up anti-government protest after Friday prayers. Very aggressively today. This video was allegedly shot in Marrasca (ph), a Damascus suburb, shows chaos after gun fire breaks out. Watch.





COOPER: There was violence in also Aleppo, which is Syria's second largest city. That's striking because support for President Bashar al-Assad has been strong there and the streets have been mostly peaceful.

A warning this video about to show you is not easy to watch. Reportedly shot in Aleppo. Protesters under fire as they carry an injured man from the street. Watch.




COOPER: Fifteen people reportedly killed in Syria today. CNN can't verify those reports or the video we've shown you because we're not allowed to be inside the country. We'd like to be but we're not allowed by the government.

Some else that was striking today. Some protesters are now demanding that Al-Assad not only resign but some are calling for his death. Earlier I spoke with Wissam Tarif a human rights activist.


COOPER: Wissam, another Friday, sadly another day of violence. But what really stunning to me is that even though with all the cracks down we have seen for months and the brutal really truly violating a large number of deaths just last week, the fact so many Syrians are risking their lives to protest I just find it stunning.

WISSAM TARIF, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST (via telephone): It is astonishing, the Protesters are determined. The Protesters are not going back to their homes. The regime has used all and different ways of (inaudible) Anderson. We have seen children today and there are also being arrested. They have shot of people who while leaving mosques. They have in some areas siege mosques and did not allow protesters to go into prayers, and we have to keep in mind, as you all know what happened in Hama just during the last week.

We're talking about a massive number of casualties in one day, we have documented 109 people killed, and those whom we know about, but there's a lot which we didn't get out of Hama because of the communication problem.

COOPER: And you mentioned it brief will you but I'm hearing that security forces are trying different tactics today, more aggressive tactics basically attacking crowds immediately as they come out of the mosque and even you say arresting kids. Why are they now arresting kids in greater numbers?

TARIF: Well, they have used every way of brutality they know, and they know plenty. They have 48 years of practice.

We have documented until last week 2,998 people who are disappeared, families do not know anything about their destiny, and now they are using more brutal tactics.

We see them kidnapping children for the simple reason that the fathers or the brothers or a family member have participated in a protest or have been engaged, actively engaged in organizing a process and supporting a democratic movement in Syria.

This is a different stage of brutality and it's very severe. We're not talking about adults who have disappeared. We're talking about children.

COOPER: Would it be an important step for the United States to finally say Assad has to step down. Assad has to go because they haven't been willing to go that far yet.

TARIF: Well, they should. They should. The United States has a strategic interest in this region. They have an interest, a strategic interest in Syria. This regime is pushing the country toward civil war.

We have to keep in mind that the protesters have been taking all this brutality for the last five months and people are getting angry and people feel that they need to defend their properties, their families, their children and that at a certain point this will not continue to be as peaceful as it is.

There is no political will from the opposition to militarize the protesters. There is a high level of awareness in the street that they want this to continue peaceful, but at the end of the day, with the increased brutality and the increased violence no one can guarantee how things can end.

Therefore it is very important for the United States to call on Al Assad to step down or the European Union to do the same and most importantly from the European Union to stop financing this group, this cruel brutality and killing stop buying the fuel from the Syrian regime.

COOPER: The strength of people to continue to come out in the streets and demand dignity, demand the dignity that they deserve and have lived without for so long is, it's stunning to see it, and inspiring. Wissam Tarif, appreciate you joining us. Thank you.

TARIF: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Happening around the country and the world tonight, Isha Sesay is back with "360 News and Business Bulletin." Isha --

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, in Britain, accused rioters are being hauled into court, many in special overnight sessions, more than 1,900 people have been arrested in connection with this week's violence and looting, about half have been charged.

A federal appeals court in Atlanta has found a key provision of the health care reform law passed last year unconstitutional. The court said forcing Americans to buy health insurance or pay a fine exceeds federal authority. The decision conflicts with another federal appeals court ruling and virtually ensures the case will end up before the Supreme Court.

A relatively quiet end to one of Wall Street's most volatile weeks ever. The Dow posted its second gain in a row, climbing 126 points. The Nasdaq and S&P 500 also posted modest gains.

And Anderson in Ottawa, Canada, 18 assembly plant workers who chipped in for a lottery ticket tonight collected their $7 million check, they found out two days ago, the same day that 10 of them received layoff notices. They'll each pocket nearly $400,000. That's my big concern if I was to win the lottery, would I want to come into work the next day?

COOPER: What are you saying?

SESAY: I thought about it for 20 seconds and I decided nothing would come between us, our evenings together.

COOPER: I don't believe you, but I appreciate it.

SESAY: Well, you know.

COOPER: What else are you going to say? Let's take a look at this shot, apparently it's dance Friday. I've discovered this on Youtube.

SESAY: Really? COOPER: This guy was the side show at the outdoor concert, his moves are unique.

SESAY: His moves are, yes.

COOPER: He went there. Yes.

SESAY: Yes, he did.


SESAY: Do it, yes. OK.

COOPER: Wow, he's feeling it. Sometimes when he closes his eyes, he could just feel the music.

SESAY: OK. I'll give you that. That's pretty impressive. But I'll see your dancing middle aged man and I'll raise you a dancing grandpa. We have featured him before, but, yes. You're going to love those moves.

COOPER: Let's -- let the music play.

SESAY: That's right. Check out the moves, the attitude and he is working it. We don't know whether the kid you see there are his grandchildren, but we like the fact that they're completely indifferent.

COOPER: Let's just say I pray to God those are his grandchildren.

SESAY: I think they're just appalled, they're like really.

COOPER: I hope those aren't some neighbor kids he calls into his apartment to show off his dance moves to. Who do you think these kids are? Kids, come in here.

SESAY: See what I can do.

COOPER: Get the kids from apartment 2B. They love it when I dance.

SESAY: He's shaking his bits. Let's just say that.

COOPER: His mitts?

SESAY: We're still having problems with this English slang.


SESAY: Later on in the show I'll give you another lesson.

COOPER: OK, thank you.

SESAY: You're welcome. COOPER: If you don't win the lottery in the meantime. More to come tonight, serious stuff including key evidence in the prosecution of polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs.

The audio tapes played in the court that really shocked the jurors, Jeffs instructing a group of girls, some as young as 12 and how to have sex with him, but actually to hear these tapes, it's really stunning. We'll play a lot of them for you. I want to play you a little bit right here.


WARREN JEFFS: You have to know how to be excited sexually, and to be exciting, to administer that comfort and strength. And you have to be able to assist each other. No one just stands around. Everyone assists.


COOPER: Also tonight, Casey Anthony ordered backing to Florida. She was acquitted of killing of daughter. Today, a judge ruled she must a year's probation. We'll explain why when we continue.


COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" tonight.

Chilling new audio tapes from the trial of polygamous sect leader Warren Jeffs, tapes prosecutors say depict the so-called prophet or self-described prophet training young girls to have sex with him.

We're talking very young girls. Jeffs called these girls his spiritual wives. Groups of girls, only young as 12, 13-years-old trained to assists each other in satisfying his own personal desires presumably in the church's so-called temple beds. You're seeing those pictures right there.

The 55-year-old is now a convicted child rapist. The Texas jury convicted him just last week, sentenced him to life in prison for the sexual assault of a 12-year-old plus 20 years for the same crime against another girl who's just 15.

The tapes you're about to hear were key to that conviction. Some of them brought jurors to tears. We want to warn you they may be too disturbing for some viewers particularly kids. Here's Warren Jeffs in his own words.


JEFFS: You have to know how to be excited sexually, and to be exciting, to administer that comfort and strength. And you have to be able to assist each other. No one just stands around. Everyone assists.

And you have to be prepared to be trained to do this, against the time I would need your help, the Lord's help, through you. So listen carefully, as the Lord intended that my ladies, all of my ladies, be trained.


COOPER: There's more. Listen to how Jeffs tries to explain to women and girls why his sexual needs have to be met.


JEFFS: Now I reveal to you that the Lord has required of me and this family, that the fullness of the Law of Sarah is for quorums of wives to be with me, to assist me, to be a comfort. Yes, even physically where more than one woman is with me at a time.


COOPER: This guy's a complete hypocrite on top of everything else because what he was preaching to the men in his congregation was completely different than the message he was giving to these women who he wanted to have sex with.

Portions not yet released of these tapes are far worse, recorded what many in the courtroom say sounded like Jeffs having sex with at least one girl.

Elisa Wall is a former member of Jeffs' sect, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints. She joins me now along with Carolyn Jessop, also a former member and author of two books about her experiences in the church "Escape" and "Triumph."

Thanks both for being with us. Carolyn, the young girl at the heart of this trial, she was actually your step daughter, correct?


COOPER: When you hear these tapes, I mean, what do you think?

JESSOP: It's heartbreaking. It's absolutely heartbreaking. Warren had so much power over these young girls' lives. They grew up from the time they were 3 or 4 years old hearing his voice being played in the home all the time.

He released upwards of 1,000 tapes of training into the community, and a lot of what's on these tapes is the same, it's a lot of the same types of verbiage.

It's a lot of the same types of things that they're already conditioned to listen to. So, of course, they're going to pay attention and believe what he's saying.

COOPER: And Elisa, I mean, for you these tapes have obviously got to be incredibly disturbing.

ELISSA WALL, TESTIFIED AGAINST WARREN JEFFS: Yes, it is and it's hard for me to hear these tapes. It's very much the same tone in which he is going about it as he did with me and coaching me to go back to the husband that I didn't want to be with and go back and be that submissive wife and to do what I was told to do.

COOPER: What was he telling the men in the congregation about having sex with their wives?

WALL: Sex was absolutely taboo, even if you were married. A man was to only have sex with his wife for the purpose of a procreation or fathering a child with her unless there was extreme other circumstances, it was not considered OK.

He was never to have sex with her if she was pregnant, if she was nursing a baby so she could not conceive. He shouldn't have sex with her. There were all kinds of rules and regulations.

COOPER: Elissa as creepy as the tapes are, Warren Jeffs to me doesn't sound very charismatic. Did you find him to be charismatic?

WALL: We grew up since the tender age of a toddler constantly hearing his voice on tapes, constantly hearing on tapes in school and every foster of our life hearing that monotone almost, just that voice. And so even though he doesn't sound charismatic, it was so much a part of our indoctrination that it was charismatic to us.

COOPER: In parts of these tapes, Jeffs gives girls explicit instructions on how they should present themselves literally groom themselves for him, I just want to play part of this.


JEFFS: You always come in my area already showered, already ready, in case you're called to assist. This is a training of words, with some works, to break down your false traditions. I repeat to you, this is not to be known.


COOPER: He's saying, Carolyn, "this is not to be known." did other people in the compound know what was going on between Jeffs and these girls?

JESSOP: Unfortunately, I'm afraid that many of them did. People in the FLDS do talk to each other when they're instructed not to and unfortunately, there are people that were involved in these crimes that, when I've learned of their involvement I was shocked they would be involved.

COOPER: Elissa, you testified against Jeffs in the first trial. The ruling was overturned. With this conviction now and with Jeffs sentenced to life in prison, do you feel you've gotten a measure of justice?

WALL: In a sense, yes, I do feel like there's a measure of justice for a lot of people who have been heavily involved in this, and have sacrificed so much to see him come to justice.

If I could describe it in a sense that really described how I felt, it would be similar to that of the feeling of coming up for air after being under water for a long time, much longer than anticipated.

COOPER: Yet as you know and you work now about and against, there are still so many, even if Jeffs goes away for life. There are still so many people who are in these communities and women in particular and girls who are going to be growing up in these communities with seemingly no way out.

JESSOP: We have a very big problem with that, and one of the biggest issues that I have the most concern with personally is that, the education.

The children coming out now are coming out functionally illiterate. They're coming out with no life skills. They're coming out with extreme trauma from literally being held in their homes as captives.

COOPER: Carolyn Jessop, I appreciate you coming on tonight and Elissa Wall as well. Thank you so much.

JESSOP: Thanks for having us.

WALL: Thank you.

COOPER: We sent our Gary Tuchman to some the strongholds of the FLDS sect, places where the majority of people even after this conviction and even after hearing the tapes still consider Warren Jeffs their prophet. We're going to show you his report on Monday.

Up next tonight, new developments in the disappearance of an American woman in Aruba. According to Robyn Gardner's friend, she disappeared while snorkeling more than a week ago. So why is that guy no longer talking to police?

Also, Casey Anthony acquitted of murder, today, a judge ordered her back to Florida, a felony conviction that Anthony cannot escape when we continue.

Also, the ridiculous definitely going to make you laugh, makes me crack up every time I see it. It involves a cat who, well kind of looks like me. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Tonight as if famine were not enough, a war torn Somalia braces for even more potential carnage as massive new shipments of foreign aid begin to arrive in Mogadishu, the capital. The militant group, Al Shabaab today threatened to launch a guerrilla war in the capital of Mogadishu, which is of course, the main distribution point of food and other supplies in that area that they're so desperately need.

In an in interview, the leader of Al Shabaab, which basically just pulled out of the capital last week said they have to resort to guerrilla tactics because they can't match the power the pro- government military forces. This is the same group that's been denying aid to the people of Somalia for months, denying that a famine is even happening in Somalia, not allowing kids to be vaccinated against diseases because they say the vaccines are part of a western plot to kill Somali children.

Meanwhile, 600,000 kids boys and girls just like our own teeter on the brink of starvation. Without access to the world's aid, tens if not hundreds of thousands will die. Many of you have reached out to us over the past few days asking how you can help the victims of famine. You can find more information online at

Isha is also back with some other stories she's following with the "360" bulletin. Isha -

SESAY: Anderson, in Aruba, the man detained in the disappearance of an American woman will appear in court Monday. Gary Giordano was arrested August 5th, three days after 35-year-old woman Gardner went missing near Baby Beach. Giordano told police she vanished while snorkeling, but didn't no longer cooperating with investigation.

A Florida judge today ordered Casey Anthony to serve one year of supervised probation. Anthony was acquitted last month of murdering her daughter Caylee, but was convicted in 2010 of felony check fraud.

The Dougherty gang faces new charges tonight, a second Colorado county has filed attempted murder and assault charges after the siblings fired an AK-47 at police during a high speed car chase Wednesday. The trio are also accused of bank robbery in Georgia and attempted murder in Florida.

And Anderson, in Ohio, a driver accidentally yanked a gas pump off its base yesterday. Luckily fast thinking attendants kept the place from blowing sky high. The customer later returned to apologize and remarkably the station owner wrote the whole thing off as one of those things.

COOPER: Just one of those things.

SESAY: Just one of those thing, yes.

COOPER: All right, still ahead have you seen this picture, Isha, separated at birth from a cat? The feline who thinks he's my doppelganger. They landed on this night's "Ridiculist."


COOPER: All right, time for the "Ridiculist." Tonight, we're adding this cat who apparently thinks he looks like me. We saw this, it does sort of look like me. We saw this on a blog called

Yes, I'm now going after defenseless animals, consider yourself on notice, back with you cat with a lot of nerve. I don't know who you are, where you're from or whether you were heretofore unaware of my steely blue eyes. But you and I have nothing in common. I mean, yes, I once peed on the floor, but who hasn't in Wolf Blitzer's billiard room. I get if you want to make a name for yourself. Interesting timing what with the ramp-up in publicity for my daytime talk show check your local listings or

Along you come with your white hair and aloof facial expression. Nice try, we're nothing like. Just ask my staff, I'm not aloof at all. By the way, cat, don't think that I don't know there's a whole group of you wannabes out there, gotten a lot of coverage, Well done, cat.

But spread the word to all your friends, I'm on to your cam. I spotted this alpaca who like Rihannah knows there's sex in the air, loves the smell of it. Let's be honest, alpaca, there's a freak in the barn.

Then there's the horse you know the one I mean. The one who looks like actor and noted Donald Trump political supporter Gary Busey, you might be interested to know the Mr. Busey was nominated for an Academy Award in the late '70s and on a reality show with Star Jones and that naked guy from "Survivor."

Not everyone looks scary though, here's "Modern Family's" Eric Stonestreet. Frankly, he and that dog should be doing those depressing SPCA commercials. I digress, cat. You see the reason I'm on to your scam is that, well I've seen it right here on CNN, perhaps the most famous animal celebrity combination -- sorry, let's see that again.

That makes me giggle every time. Those famous animal celebrity combination of them all, Larry King and this monkey, curious George, you're on with Bill Haher. What's your question?

The monkey for the hour. A more uncanny resemblance I have not seen. I don't know who is who. There is Piers Morgan who resembles I don't know. I don't know who to say if I haven't gotten through to you now, watch your step. You and your posse don't want to anger and don't want to anger Wilfred Brimley.

That does it for "360" at 8:00. I'll see you at 10:00 p.m. Eastern tonight. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN" starts now.