Return to Transcripts main page


Police Believe Missing Woman Dead; Gary Giordano`s Disturbing Background

Aired August 15, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VALEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice over): Tonight, is Aruba ground zero in the war on women? Cops now believe beautiful Robyn Gardner, who went missing on the island, is dead. New horror stories also emerging about her traveling companion, Gary Giordano. But will he walk free? Insider tips on how to check the past of someone you`re dating online.

Also Casey Anthony`s defense team goes into overdrive. Fighting back against a judge`s order that Casey return back to Orlando to serve for probation, but can she win her appeal. And what if she looses. I`m taking your calls.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My kid is not here. He`s dead because of him! He ruined my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) life.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An angry mom lashes out at a crooked judge. He was convicted of getting kickbacks for unjustly sticking kids behind bars for minors offenses. I`ll talk to this mother whose kid killed himself after spending time in one of the judge`s corrupt jails. She`ll tell us about her battle for justice.

ISSUES starts now.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As police try and figure out what happened to a beautiful young American tourist who`s been missing for a week now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have arrested Gary Giordano as a suspect in her disappearance.

MICHAEL LOPEZ, SUSPECT`S ATTORNEY: They know each other for a couple of years already. And as friends, they met each other, I think, on a dating site. After that, they spoke with each other or saw each other two times a month.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was erratic. He was a little violent. Like one time I happened to touch his hair by accident, and he literally, like, yanked my arm really hard and it was really scary.

LOPEZ: They suspected of murder, but there`s no proof. My knowledge, I don`t see any proof. I don`t see any -- there`s no proof and there`s no motive.


VALEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news out of Aruba. The prime suspect in the disappearance of an American tourist Robyn Gardner has just been ordered to stay behind bars for another two weeks.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live in New York City.

Prosecutors gave the judge enough evidence -- we don`t know what it is, but enough evidence to keep Gary Giordano behind bars. So I guess the big question tonight, what exactly do they know about this man? This 50- year-old Giordano who has a history of domestic violence, disturbing stuff coming out. He was arrested trying to leave Aruba not long after his traveling companion Robyn Gardner vanished into thin air.

Now, the pair met online. Nobody has seen Robyn for almost two weeks now. Giordano told police, Robyn was swept out to sea while they were snorkeling together. A lot of people don`t believe it. Giordano`s lawyer says her body may have simply disappeared. Listen to this.


LOPEZ: The body goes outside the reef, goes deep immediately and goes very deep. You can see it there. It goes under the water, the current will take it away.


VALEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, really? No one can verify the couple even went snorkeling. There is no record of them renting any snorkeling equipment. Robyn`s boyfriend back home said she`s not the snorkeling type. Doesn`t even like to do it. Prosecutors charge Giordano is no longer cooperating. He had to give a DNA sample to cops today.

Meantime, more and more women coming out of the woodwork tonight to say this guy, Giordano-and you see him walking there, on the beach, head hanging low-is bad news. One woman, in fact, said he wanted to take her and her daughter to Aruba and claimed he would set them up financially if they both had sex with him, the mother and the daughter. And then he allegedly made a very eerie comparison. Listen to this from ABC`s "GOOD MORNING AMERICA."


CARRIE EMERSON, ALLEGEDLY CONTACTED GIORDANO: He started telling me stuff, like, he would protect her. He said, there`s not going to be another Natalee Holloway or anything.


VALEZ-MITCHELL: That`s scary. Not going to be another Natalee Holloway. What does that mean?

Now Giordano`s attorney says his client didn`t know anything about Aruba before arriving there. So, how did he know about Natalee Holloway to mention that? Hmm. Straight out to Robyn Gardner`s boyfriend, Richard Forester.

Richard, thank you once again for talking to us tonight. I know how difficult this has to be. I know you`re speaking out because you want to find out what happened to your girlfriend and get the truth, and get justice.

What do you make of this remark now that he made to this other woman? Hey, come to Aruba with me, bring your daughter and we`re going to do all sorts of allegedly perverse things and it`s not going to be another Natalee Holloway case. Of course, Natalee was never found and the suspect was never prosecuted.

RICHARD FORESTER, ROBYN GARDNER`S BOYFRIEND: Well, I think it shows, you know, it seems to be supporting a lot of other stories that have come out about him. You know, I hear what I hear. And I hear all these story. And that just seems to be another one who throw on to the pile.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: Speaking of other story, this woman Carrie Emerson said she had contact with Giordano. She has been speaking. She spoke on NBC`s "TODAY SHOW."

FORESTER: Right. I saw that.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: And she was sitting there with her daughter. Let`s listen and get your reaction to that.


EMERSON: He called us, wanting for her to come model for him in Aruba. He was just very relaxed when he called. He was too relaxed. He asked for her by her modeling name. I said, yes? He said hey, this is Gary, what are you up to? Like it was somebody I knew. And I knew I had not talked to this person before. That was a red flag right there.


VALEZ-MITCHELL: Apparently when she said no, he said I can make your disappear and he also said the thing like this is not another Natalee Holloway. This is added on to all the other disturbing stuff we`re getting. That information from "INSIDE EDITION"

We are also hearing another ex-girlfriend alleging that he assaulted, allegedly.

"We argued about his past sexual lifestyle as a swinger. He started to choke me with both hands. And then he shoved his fingers down my throat. I was struggling and gagging."

I mean, this is unbelievable. Two women were granted restraining orders against this guy. Claiming he stalked her, videotaped sex, and then posted the X-rated sex on the Internet.

Ditto for another woman, who said that when she complained about the secret videotaping he put X-rated photos in her neighbors` mailboxes.

His attorney is invited on anytime to give his side of the story on this, but this is very disturbing stuff, Richard. What do you make of it?

FORESTER: It`s exactly like you said. It`s very disturbing. It is twisted. It is sick. You know, I think we`re hearing a lot more and the more. And the more we learn, the better. But hopefully, you know, this leads us to finding Robyn. And that`s the ultimate goal here.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: Let go out to Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent, who is live in Aruba right now.

What are you learning, Martin, about the evidence they may have gotten in order to keep this man longer behind bars?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it would appear, Jane, given the fact that they had been asking for-prosecutors, that is-eight additional days to detain him and got 16, that they either have some pretty good evidence or they believe they`re going to get good evidence. They were probably being backed up by the fact that now Aruban authorities know they have the help of the FBI. They went through the home, of Gary`s home up there, and then also went through Robyn`s home. So, it is believed that that evidence could provide some key information. One may be about the whereabouts of Robyn Gardner at this particular time. But also whether in any way this could have been a premeditated event.

I`m not saying it is. I`m just saying that he computer information is going to be crucial here, that they would have gotten out of Gary Giordano`s home. That`s what they`re going to be looking at. Right now the authorities down here are saying we just started. We`ve got a lot more work to do.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: But you`re saying premeditated event. Again, this guy hasn`t been charged with anything. We want to be careful. We don`t want to convict him. But the look at this might have been premeditated because he tried to, allegedly, tried to bring these other women down. And said no, it`s not going to be another Natalee. That`s very scary.

You have to wonder, Aruba went through this horror story with Natalee Holloway`s body was never found. Joran Van der Sloot, obviously the prime suspect, even though he`s locked up on another case in South America. He was never prosecuted in this case.

But the authorities in Aruba did learn how to search. Because they turned the island upside down, Martin. Are they using some of the techniques that they learned in the search for Natalee, in their efforts to find Robyn?

SAVIDGE: Yeah, they are. From the get-go, we saw it was a much more aggressive posture they took when that 911 call came in from Gary Giordano. They launched aircraft, they launched boats, they got divers in the water, and they had people searching on the ground. They did that very quickly, organized it, and kept it up for several days. That was lesson number one, they learned.

They also got their PR people immediately talking to members of the international media. That`s how they refer to all of us, making sure they have the appearance that look, we`re on top of this. We`re leaning forward. We are moving in a positive direction. So those are the lessons they have learned.

Their greatest fear-and it was said again today-was that this would be another Natalee Holloway. What they mean by that is just case with no resolution. They do not want that to happen again.


And we want to go to Rupa Mikkilineni. She is the producer Nancy Grace. She is on the ground in Maryland, outside Gary Giordano`s house.

What can you tell us about what they did in their raid, Rupa?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, CNN HLN PRODUCER: Right, Jane. Well, I`m here in front of Gary Giordano`s house. This is the fortress as it`s been described. About a $1.2 million home he purchased in 2005. You can see it right behind me over here. There is a driveway heading up. It`s up further on the hill. It`s a very large house. Sits on about 3.5 acres of land.

And Jane, last Friday, upon request from the Aruban prosecutes, FBI raided the home behind me. There were 15 unmarked, and marked, FBI cars here, several agents here. They came in with bulletproof vests is what I`m hearing, here on the ground. Not only this, but they had battering rams. I got a closer look at the house today. It does not look destroyed. They clearly did not need to use the battering rams.

They got in there. They were in there for three hours, Friday night starting at about 8:30. And pulled out boxes and boxes of evidence. Some of what we`re hearing, is some evidence are cell phones and computers. Other evidence, we simply don`t know what that is.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: Richard Forester, again, you`re Robyn Gardner`s boyfriend. You want to find your missing girlfriend.

I understand in Aruba they did search the rental car, a white Toyota RAV, but apparently the rental company had already cleaned it. So they can`t find any DNA apparently off of that. That`s got to be very disturbing to you.

FORESTER: It is very disturbing to me. It raises a lot of questions.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: What exactly would you like to see happen? If you could have anything happen in Aruba, right now, obviously, you want to find your girlfriend. But what would you like the authorities to do?

FORESTER: I would like them to get the information from Gary and say where she is, and bring her home.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: His attorney claims that his client is cooperating; has given four voluntary interviews. And that 30 witnesses can find absolutely nothing to connect him to this case. I want to get your response to that, Richard.

FORESTER: I think he`s the only connection to the case. If he was the last one with her, I think that makes him a direct connection to the case. As I said before, I don`t believe the snorkeling thing, but I guess anything is possible. I can`t speculate, I wasn`t there. I think that he`s the key to it.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we certainly hope that your girlfriend is found. It`s a very disturbing case. We`re not done with this.

FORESTER: I appreciate that and I`m happy to talk more and especially thank you for having the tip line, there that the Natalee Holloway Resource Center set up. It`s really important if anybody knows anything about Robyn, her whereabouts, what might have happened. Or even more about Mr. Giordano. Please use that tip line. It`s very, very important.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Thank you, Richard. And thank you for sharing. I know this has got to be just hellish for you.


VALEZ-MITCHELL: We`re not done. We`re going to also try to learn from this. And we`re going to give you the secrets to doing background checks online. If you are dating someone online, we`re going to tell you exactly what you need to know to make sure the person you`re dating is not some kind of creepo, sicko. We`re taking your phone calls, 1-877-586-7297.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was like following me, or stalking me. And it freaked me out.




LOPEZ: They know each other for a couple of years already. They met each other on a dating site. After that they had-they spoke with each other, or they saw each other two times a month and they had good contact with each other through the telephone.


VALEZ-MITCHELL: They are trying to find Robyn Gardner. She disappeared in Aruba. And I can tell you the FBI raid the home of her companion, Gary Giordano. They`re you see them going in and out with a bunch of boxes. They took out computers and cell phones. And by the way, this guy promotes himself as an IT consultant to large companies and he`s listed as the CEO of a business. But again, it`s no accident that they`re walking out with the computers and the cell phones, because they met online.

Tonight we are going to tell you how you can protect yourself if you are dating somebody online. You might even want to take notes here. Because we are going to tell you about techniques like one of them is, reverse phone look up. You get somebody`s e-mail or phone you can just literally Google reverse phone look-up, on, and it will tell you what area that person lives in. Or where they have their phone registered. So if they`re lying to you and they say live in one place and they live in another, you can find that out.

Now, here are some other sites.;; That is easy to remember,

You can also use Linkedin, Google, Myspace, and Facebook. Here are some of the things you can find. You can look for-well, you can verify their identity and their address. People are liars, a lot of them are. You can get their criminal history, if they`ve got felonies or misdemeanors. You can find out if they`ve got restraining orders. You can get financial information. Do they have bankruptcy, lawsuits. Do they really own the business they claim to own?

Stephany Alexander, you`re the founder of the free date screening site The author of "Sex, Lies and the Internet."

Listen we know a lot of people have met and had great relationships on the Internet. We don`t want to throw out the baby with the bathwater here. But we want to protect women from creeps. How do we do that?

STEPHANY ALEXANDER, FOUNDER; WOMANSAVERS.COM: I recommend first of all doing a background check. You get a real first and last name as soon as possible then you can get a back ground check online, on websites like for under $50. After that, I suggest doing a character check on the man`s relationship history. You can do that on Web sites like my own Web site that I founded in 2002, that is That is a free date screening service. With tens of thousands of abuse, allegedly, abusive and cheating men entered by women, to bring the good guys to the top, and the bad to the bottom. And then the final way is to do a sexual predator search to make sure you`re not working with a pedophile, or worse. You can do that on, or

VALEZ-MITCHELL: You know what we`re going to do? We are going to put all of this up on my Facebook page so that people, check it out. We`re going to put all this information and keep it on my Facebook page, so that people can use this. They really need to.

Jayne Hitchcock, you are a cyber crime expert, author of, I love this title, "Net Crimes and Misdemeanors." Thank you for joining us on Skype. Please speak up.

What about the big mistake that women make, making calls on their phones without blocking them. What can you tell us about that?

JAYNE HITCHCOCK, CYBER CRIME EXPERT: The best thing that I said is, you know, do -- block your number when you -- if you decide to make that phone call. Or, you know, and try and be the person to call the man, because that way you can stay a little bit safer and hide yourself a little bit at the same time until you really get to know the other person.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: The other thing is, make a special e-mail address that is not your e-mail that you use for everybody. You can go on any of these site and create a pseudonym. And you don`t have to give everything way. Keep your privacy while finding out about him. More in a moment.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was erratic. He was a little violent. Like one time I touched his hair by accident. He literally yanked my arm really hard, and it was like really scary. And he was, let`s say, quite physically aggressive, but inappropriately. Apparently he has cameras in his house where he videotapes people. And he has cameras all around his home.


VALEZ-MITCHELL: But Robyn Gardner didn`t know all this about the man she went to Aruba with. Now she`s missing. The companion whom she met online is behind bars and being grilled as a prime suspect in her disappearance.

This is the guy, Gary Giordano. Women coming out of the woodwork, including his ex-wife who accused him of throwing their son to a ground, destroying a computer. Says he cannot control his anger.

Mara, Indiana, your question or thought?

CALLER: Hi. I have a question on and a comment. First off, she met him online but how well did she know him, that she didn`t know he was not such a good person. Two: I met my husband online. So, I know you can meet good men on the Internet.

But one thing I did before I went on my first date wit him, I made sure at least two friends knew exactly where we were supposed to be, what we were going to be doing, when we were supposed to be home. And I made sure I called them when I got home. Women got to learn to be smart when they`re meeting people they don`t know.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right.

Casey Jordan, criminologist, yes. You can meet good men, good people, good women online. But you have to be careful. And this is a cautionary tale.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: It really is. Our caller made some excellent points. I have friends who met their current husbands on Match. The bottom line, is sure a lot of people do find good partners out there.

But for women it is a different ballgame. I mean, men who women on Match, they don`t have to worry about being assaulted. Stalking is a different issue. But the key is, I always tell people, number one, exactly as the caller said. Definitely tell some friends, write down all the information, sometimes just print out their profile, leave it in your house just in case.

Always meet them in a public place. Never meet them at their home. Write down their license plate number. I always tell my students, when you meet somebody, try this out, take your cell phone and snap a photo him at the dinner table. And say, my friends are all so excited for me they wanted to know what you look like. I hope you don`t mine. If he objects to having his photo taken, right then and there? That is a bad sign.

Beyond that, do all of your research. Don`t believe anything that people tell you straight up. Verify their employment. Everyone lies about their age and height. They also lie about their marital status, whether they`re divorced, or married and also about their employment. So, check them out, the resources are there online and it`s worth spending a few bucks if it saves your life.

VALEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. Here`s another aspect we want to talk about. A friend of Robyn`s. This Christina Jones told "GOOD MORNING AMERICA" that she was a Margarita kind of girl. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My experience with Robyn, knowing her since I`ve known her, is that she`s not a swimmer. And that she`s more of a lay by the pool, have a Margarita kind of girl.


VALEZ-MITCHELL: And her boyfriend, Robyn`s boyfriend, the missing woman`s boyfriend has said he had concerns about Robyn`s drinking. So you take, online and you add alcohol, and then you throw in Aruba, that is a prescription for disaster.

Women, we have to protect ourselves. And the best way you can protect yourselves is being alert and not getting intoxicated. That is a key.

Casey Anthony, up next.



CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED FOR MURDER OF DAUGHTER: I just want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did.

Sorry -- sorry --

CROWD: Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony, you have 30 days to appeal this sentence.

JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, PRESIDED OVER CASEY ANTHONY CASE: I`m also well aware of the threats --

CASEY ANTHONY: Could someone let me -- come on.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: If it can bring some closure and some peace to people, then we`re behind it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight: Casey`s lawyers have confirmed, they are appealing the judge`s decision to order Casey back to Orlando to serve a year`s probation. The battle continues, escalating.

Good evening, everyone. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, back live in New York City.

Casey`s lawyers claim she already did probation while she was in jail. They say they`ve got a letter to prove it. I`ve seen the letter. But Judge Perry says uh-uh, it doesn`t count.

A week from Friday, that`s August 26, Casey is due back in Orlando, back to the Department of Corrections to check in for probation. Will that order stand. Will this appeal be successful or will there be a stay. And if they lose and Casey does come back, can she stay safe in the city she turned upside down?

Tonight, a new theory from George and Cindy`s attorney, Mark Littman; he expects that Casey will not serve her probation in Florida saying it`s common for somebody to register in Florida for a few minutes and then, quote, "immediately transfer the probation to a state that can accommodate the probation".

More mystery with this drama-rama; I want to hear your opinion, 1-877- 586-7297, that`s 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

But first, we`ve got breaking news in the Casey Anthony case just in. Jean Casarez what have you got for us? What have you learned?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, the "Los Angeles Examiner" out in California, they are reporting that Casey Anthony through an anonymous source has signed a six-figure advance book deal -- really a tell-all book, Jane, about her family and growing up. Her relationship with Lee, that the father of Caylee is very much alive.

But Jane, there`s one thing with this article that is so detailed, I`ve got one concern. It talks about that the appeal that you were just talking about, that it`s been filed.

Jane, it has not been filed. We checked with the clerk`s office until they closed. It has not been filed. We hear they`re going to, but that`s an inaccuracy right there, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well then, can you trust the rest of the story is what you`re saying? And obviously we`ve heard that many stories.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve heard oh, they`re bidding up to $1.5 million for the first interview. Then all of the networks came out at least most of them, the big three, and said no, we`re not bidding $1.5 million, we`re not bidding a nickel or a dime. And then we heard, well, this one may have a deal, that one may have a deal. Who knows? We don`t know.

Now, here`s the thing, though, if she is writing a tell-all about mom and dad, mom and dad have already been through the ringer with this kid, ok? She accused her dad of molesting her. She accused her brother of molesting her. She accused her dad of doing a cover-up, finding the child, little Caylee dead in the pool.

So imagine if she writes a tell-all book, right? And Mark Nejame, imagine if she now puts a little more salt on the wound and said I haven`t done enough for my parents. I`m now going to write a tell-all book and detail all these things about mom and dad that a lot of people think are lies to begin with. A lot of people -- and I`m among them -- don`t believe the molestation story at all. I find the timing suspicious.

Could she be that cruel that she would add insult to injury by now writing a book and instead of telling the truth about what really happened, talk more about her horrible childhood at the hands of her molester father?

MARK NEJAME, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR CINDY AND GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, hi Jane. That`s a lot of questions. The reality of it is, of course, she can be that cold. Imagine this compared to what she did when Caylee was rotting in a bag. You`ve got to be pretty cold to know that your daughter -- best case is bagged, wrapped, dumped and left to rot and you go out and party yourself away; so yes, if she`s capable of doing that, of course.

Big question, too, why would anybody buy this book? Do you find it in the fiction or the nonfiction section of the bookstore? She hasn`t told the truth as far as anybody can pretty much ascertain for anything significant in years. Why would anybody buy this book and glorify somebody who seemingly has no redeeming social value as it relates to her history.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And why would any major publisher make -- and you have to be a relative major publisher to have to offer six-figures. Why would they make that deal knowing the blowback they`re going to get is going to be intense?

NEJAME: It`s already started. It has started on Twitter. I`ll tell you I get so many tweets as it relates to people actively boycotting. I went on Facebook the other day and I looked and there are dozens upon dozens of "Boycott Casey Anthony" sites up to stop anybody, not only the person paying her but any advertiser who supports her and puts money in her pocket. I think there might be a short-term gain but a long-term loss for anybody that wants to play that game to the public.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, suffice it to say, that if she`s writing a tell-all book, Cindy and George`s attorney Mark Littman says Casey is not going to be going home to mom and dad. Quote, "Casey Anthony will not be returning to her home because of the probation order. George and Cindy wanted people to know this because they don`t want protests on their lawn." Protests like this one, for example.


CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t care what America thinks of me. If they think that I`m a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) because I`m standing up to the media that want to attack me?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just to protest. See if maybe we can break them down.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I have to say something. Yes, people are now returning to Cindy and George`s home which I have visited. I was one of the (INAUDIBLE) but I was working as a journalist. The home is so close to the street, there`s no protection, there`s no privacy.

Leave these people alone. They haven`t done anything. Casey is not going back. Just leave these two human beings alone. Please.

Carol in California, your question or thought Carol.

CAROL, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Hi Jane.


CAROL: I`m so privileged to talk to you. I just can`t believe it. I watch you every single night for what you do --


CAROL: -- and everything.


CAROL: And I just kind of have like a comment and a question, your expert opinion --


CAROL: I don`t see -- she needs to serve probation but how is she going to do that, to get a job and all of that. But I have a solution to this problem.


CAROL: Jose Baez is the one that lied and got her off for murder. I think he should have to have her live with him and give her a job.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. Jose Baez has I think indicated -- correct me if I`m wrong, Jean Casarez -- that -- listen, here`s the thing. I don`t think that she can go live with Jose Baez. I mean maybe Cheney Mason`s house is big enough. But Jean you said it`s right outside the county border so it`s not going to be possible. That`s Cheney Mason.

Jose Baez -- these are lawyers. They do have to get on with their lives eventually. They have wives. They have children. They can`t have this hot, young 25-year-old coming in and just sort of moving in and stick around the house eating potato chips on the couch, can they -- Jean?

CASAREZ: No. They`ve got their live. They`ve got their practice. She`s an adult. She`s got to find her own way. But the fact is, unless it can be transferred to another state and that, Jane, is if a state will allow her to serve probation in that state. That`s a big question in my mind. She`s bound for Orlando

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look. On Friday, we had Judge Larry Seidlin of Florida. He`s famous, of course, for the Anna Nicole Smith Case. He spoke to us and he felt that this ruling that she has to come back to Orlando to serve probation was vindictive justice. Listen to this.


JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, PRESIDED OVER ANNA NICOLE SMITH CASE: If she spits the wrong way on the street, she`s going to be back in front of Judge Perry. And they`re going to give her the toughest probation officer there is in Orlando.

And let`s talk about some other thoughts. How about if she gives an interview and gets a big check to give an interview? How much can she criticize the Orlando court system? Are they going to bring her back for going too far? What happens if one of the magazines wants her to pose nude and she gets a big fee for that. Is that in violation? Politics is in the court system like it does every system.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mark Nejame, you`re down there. Do you think this is a political decision? What do you think?

NEJAME: No. Judge Strickland made it so abundantly clear when he issued his verbal order that she was to start after the completion of the homicide case. There was an issue. The judge -- you noticed throughout this trial that Judge Perry made a rather quick decision. Very starkly (ph), he looked at the law, he read it and made a decision.

This is a challenging issue. On one hand, if she was subject to punishment while supposedly doing probation while in jail, then there`s an argument of double jeopardy, but on the other, if her defense team as the judge very clearly pointed out in his order, knew about it, knew that she was serving in violation of the judge`s verbal order, then they should not benefit as a result of them not bringing here before the court`s attention.

So I think it`s a close call. I think it`s going to land on the side of this judge who has very seldom been overruled. And as far as Larry Seidlin`s statements, I like Larry, but that`s not correct. Unless there`s a violation of specific laws or terms of probation then she`s not going to get violated. The fact of the matter is if she violates, she`s going to jail presumably.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Jordan, quick prediction. Do you think she`s going to come back to Orlando in two weeks and register for probation? Or is a stay going to this appeal going to be successful --


NEJAME: There`s nothing about this case that you can predict -- I think she is -- I think she is coming.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Jordan -- Casey Jordan. Casey, Casey, Casey. Sorry.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: I am going to believe that she has to come back. I really think that the long arm of the law is just going to say enough is enough, you have to come back. I don`t think she`s going to get a stay. She`s going to have to come back. She may get a transfer but she`s going to come back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The saga continues. I would have to say, I think the court -- the judge made a mistake in this sense because yes, ok, maybe she should serve probation. But it smacks a little bit of trying to undo the acquittal. And you`re not going to be able to achieve justice that way. Ok?

The intention is everything. What`s the intention behind this order? That`s the key.

All right. Coming up: an unbelievable story, kids for cash.


SANDY FONZO, TEENAGE SON COMMITTED SUICIDE: My kid`s not here. He`s dead because of him.




FONZO: Do you remember me? Do you remember me? Do you remember my son?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The two schemed to send juveniles to detention centers for kickback money.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her son committed suicide after being sentenced by a corrupt judge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To see for themselves the man, that many despise, get his just reward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The overall corrupt scheme has contaminated the entire system.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most of his victims he claims were not victims ended up going to jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He sentenced Ciavarella to 28 years in prison.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got what he deserved.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why are we putting our criminal justice system in the hands of people whose business it is to make money?

FONZO: He`ll never live the sentence that I lived -- that I`ll live with for the rest of my life.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a devastated and rightfully furious mom gets justice in the kids for cash scandal. This crooked Pennsylvania judge has finally heard his sentence, and that is 28 years behind bar. This is the very same man who cruelly sentenced boys, youngsters to detention centers in return for millions of dollars in kickbacks from the owners of those private facilities. And now this tainted ex-judge finally got a taste of his own medicine.

One of the mothers of the one of the boys, Sandy Fonzo, is my very special guest tonight. Her son, Edward, committed suicide after serving a way, way, way too harsh sentence for a very minor drug-related offense. It was part of Judge Mark Ciavarella`s sick scheme to get rich from the bench.

The racketeering and fraud case of ex-Judge Ciavarella got national attention thanks in part to this unforgettable confrontation with our guest Sandy. Check it out.



FONZO: My kid`s not here. He`s dead because of him. He ruined my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) life. I would like him to go to hell and rot there forever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, come on.

FONZO: No. You know what he told everybody in court? They need to be held accountable for their actions. You need to be.

Do you remember me? Do you remember me? Do you remember my son? An all-star wrestler? He`s gone. He shot himself in the heart. You scum bag.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, I love it. I love your passion and I love your courage to confront this guy who corrupted our criminal justice system. Unbelievable what this man did.

Sandy Fonzo, I applaud you. I applaud you for your courage. He`s gotten 28 years. Does that give you any solace whatsoever?

FONZO: It does. There`s so many levels of -- you know, everybody keeps asking me, you know, am I happy, do I feel like I received justice? After 8 years of, you know, living through this and fighting and, you know, coming to dead ends on everything that I tried to do. Watching my son, go through the destruction that he went through and talking to these other families through this whole thing.

That day was just surreal. Like I waited and waited and waited. That day has actually -- one of the things that kept me going through losing my son because I had that to look forward. I couldn`t wait for that day.

And I did everything I could to keep the awareness there. And then, you know, it just came down to that day and I just said that it was in God`s hands. I feel the universe spoke that day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, believe it or not, this judge was defiant right up until the bitter end. He had a very long statement that he read in court. I`m sorry that I have to give you a couple of quotes from this. He said, quote, "Those three words -- cash for kids -- may be the personification of evil. They made me the anti-Christ and devil. Because of those three words, I have been publicly convicted of a crime I never committed." Blah, blah, blah.

I mean that upsets me that he never really even acknowledged that what he did -- he got kickbacks. He got money for sentencing your son and others like your son to a term behind bars when they didn`t deserve that. That is the ultimate corruption of our criminal justice system, Sandy.

FONZO: It was so hard to sit there and contain myself. I was told a couple of time, one more time, they were going to have to ask me to leave. And I could not let myself be taken out of there because I wanted to see him. I wanted to hear that sentence.

But yes, it was horrible. I truly believe he`s a sociopath. He`s completely delusional.

And what he does -- and this is what he`s done all along. He uses his lawyer lingo to actually, you know, he`s just a con artist at the highest level. And he conned us all in that courtroom and then all the way up until that day. You know, he was trying to still get out of it with this judge -- the sentencing judge.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And your son committed suicide because his life was shattered because he got a sentence for nothing. What -- paraphernalia, a little paraphernalia? There`s your handsome son. And I am so sorry that you lost your son.

But let us make sure he did not die in vain. We are living in an incarceration nation -- too many people behind bars.



MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: I`ll be performing the songs my fans want to hear. This is it. I mean, this is really it. This is the final -- this is the final curtain call.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: As the criminal trial of Dr. Conrad Murray for Michael Jackson`s death gets under way, a shocking family feud. That`s right. A Jackson family feud heating up. MJ`s mom Katherine and four of Michael`s brothers and sisters have a Michael Jackson tribute concert in the works, but two of his brothers are saying, absolutely no way that the concert`s timing at the same time as the criminal trial for Dr. Conrad Murray. It is a terrible idea, way too close for comfort.

Dr. Murray charged with voluntary manslaughter in the king of pop`s death. Investigators say Dr. Murray gave Michael Jackson a lethal cocktail of pain killers including Propofol, it`s only supposed to be used in medical settings. The trial gearing up and we have this shocking new information about the defense witness list, more than 100 people on it.

Straight out to Amber Goodhand reporter for RadarOnline; what do you know Amber?

AMBER GOOD HAND, RADARONLINE: What we know is we`ve learned at Radar that 103 people are on the defense team`s list. Now, nine of those are doctors who have formerly treated Michael Jackson.

And what we`ve confirmed is at least three of those doctors for sure will be called to the stand. One of which is Dr. Neil Ratner. He was an anesthesiologist for Michael. He toured with Michael in the late `90s. And he`s, you know, he`s reportedly admitted that he would set up like a makeshift hospital room, wherever they were touring, and he would bring him up, bring him back down, treat him.

He has said that Michael had a severe sleeping disorder. He hasn`t went into detail. And what the defense -- the strategy for Conrad Murray`s defense here is going to be what were you treating him with? What were you giving him? Were you giving him Propofol? Because we know that Conrad Murray is on the line now for having given him Propofol. He was the last one to have treated him with it, but he certainly wasn`t the first or the only.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s certainly point now. Cherilyn Lee, Michael Jackson`s nurse, she`s also on the witness list. And she has also said Michael begged her for Propofol not too long before his death. Check this out.


CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S NURSE: It saddened me because Michael was so adamant about wanting this medication which he thought was going to help him sleep well, which is not a sleep medication at all. And what I -- you know, it is just really hard to say. I don`t want to really speculate, but it just saddened me. I have great, great concern as to what happened.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t understand, amber, so what? I mean, if I`ve stolen from somebody, I can`t say, you know what I`m not the only one. That person over there stole too. What difference does it make if other people did something that they shouldn`t have done?

GOODHAND: Well, Jane, what this is going to do is blow the roof off who Michael was. He -- nine of these 103 people were former doctors. That means Michael certainly had a long list of doctors treating him, which is not normal. He was using Propofol. He had a sleeping disorder.

The defense attorney wants to shift the blame from Conrad Murray. He`s the only one on the line here facing four years in prison. And all it takes is one juror for them to hang, reasonable doubt, just one juror.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know. But I still think so what if other people did something wrong, it doesn`t vitiate your responsibility as a doctor.

Ok. More on the other side. Hang in there.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the charge offense of involuntary manslaughter, a felony, Dr. Murray, how do you plead?

DR. CONRAD MURRAY, ACCUSED OF KILLING MICHAEL JACKSON: Your honor, I am an innocent man. I therefore plead not guilty.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is Dr. Conrad Murray`s defense going to be? Michael Jackson got the deadly dose of Propofol as he was rehearsing for his big comeback tour, "This is it". You remember. Check it out.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Meanwhile, there is this family rift in the Jackson family. Should they have a big tribute concert at the very same time that the trial is getting under way? Would that help Michael Jackson`s legacy or put it on trial? We`re going to stay on top of the case.