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Nude Pics of Missing Woman Found in Aruba; Jose Baez Under Ethics Investigation

Aired August 18, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, explosive new details in the case of that beautiful missing American woman, Robyn Gardner, who vanished in Aruba. Tonight I will talk to the missing woman`s best friend about Robyn`s relationship with the suspect, Gary Giordano.

Why did Robyn go to Aruba with him when she had another boyfriend? And what about the alleged pornographic photos on Giordano`s phone?

And Casey Anthony`s lawyer, Jose Baez, on the hot seat, the target of a new ethics investigation.

JOSE BAEZ, LAWYER FOR CASEY ANTHONY: But the truth is the truth, depending who is asking the questions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did Jose Baez cross the line or is this a witch-hunt because he won an acquittal for Casey Anthony, the most hated person in America?

Also shocking new claims of violent beatings. New reports say "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" Taylor Armstrong`s husband beat her so badly she needed plastic surgery. Another "Real Housewife," Danielle Staub, says she, too, thought about taking her own life. Is reality TV pushing its stars way too far?

I`m taking your calls. ISSUES starts now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a bit of a roller coaster friendship. And some days he was nice, and other days he wasn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly you begin to see that investigators are wondering if the motivating factor might have been money in some way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I could fulfill his fantasy of having a mother-daughter three-some, he would take care of us financially for the rest of our lives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gary Giordano says, yes, he did take out not one but two insurance policies, one for him, one on Robyn Gardner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t see her taking or anybody taking sleeping pills in the middle of the day, and then following it up with vodka, and then going snorkeling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, when you were swimming back, did you ever look to see if Robyn Gardner was swimming back? He said no, he didn`t, until he got his hand on the rocks. And then he said the reason he didn`t look back was that he was so fixed on trying to save his own life.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A shocking and disturbing new twist in the search for missing American tourist Robyn Gardner.

Good evening, everyone. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you from New York City live tonight. People magazine is reporting that Aruban police found naked photos of Robyn on a camera belonging to their prime suspect, her travel companion, Gary Giordano.

In fact, these photos are being described as "beyond pornographic." Radar Online reports the photos are extreme close-ups, and you that cannot tell if Robyn Gardner is awake or not. So did Gary Giordano force Robyn Gardner to pose for pornographic photos? Could she have been drugged?

We know that restaurant workers said Robyn was acting woozy while she was having lunch with Giordano the very day she vanished. Giordano blamed it on vodka and sleeping pills.

Here is what Aruba`s solicitor general had to say about these photos on NBC`s "Today" show.


TACO STEIN, ARUBAN SOLICITOR GENERAL: What I`ve heard about is that there is no indication that there is talk of duress in the pictures, but I can`t dwell upon what`s in the camera, what kind of pictures they are.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: No sign of duress. We know now what Gary Giordano told cops right after Robyn vanished. Newly released documents say police questioned Giordano about his finances right from the get-go, and also about this huge accidental death travel policy he admitted taking out on himself and Robyn.

We are taking your calls on this. What do you think? 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. Straight out to CNN`s Martin Savidge, who is on the ground in Aruba near Baby Beach, which is near the area where Robyn Gardner supposedly vanished.

Martin, have to start with this very disturbing report. What are you hearing about those naked pornographic photos of Robyn found on Gary`s camera?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jane, you`ll remember, we reported about that camera, that it was belonging to Gary and that it had been discovered by authorities some days ago. We knew at that time that there were photographs there.

In fact, we know that he had been questioned about those photographs. But as you say, People magazine now saying that these are beyond pornographic. Here is how authorities classify it, when I put it directly to Taco Stein, he described them as explicit. He wouldn`t say that they were explicit in a sexual nature or some other way. He just said they were explicit.

But then I asked him, I said, have you seen the photos, did you look at them? And he said -- he admitted that, no, he had not seen the photos himself, he had heard about them. So the comment that he made that it didn`t appear that she was under duress, that was coming as a result of what he had heard from investigators.

We also know by the interview that authorities gave to Gary Giordano on August 5th, he did confess to taking photographs on Moomba Beach, it`s an interesting place because as I remember, Moomba Beach is located between the Marriott Hotel where they were staying and the Holiday Inn Hotel which is right next door.

Now is that where the explicit photos were taken? Authorities will not say. They are saying very little, won`t even tell us how many photos we`re talking about -- Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, I have got to tell you that it kind of dovetails with the other things that we`re hearing. And by the way, that`s a map of the area, giving you kind of an overview of where everything was going down.

Baby Beach, all right? Baby Beach. Clear as a lake. That`s where he says, oh, my gosh, I had to leave and head back to shore because I feared for my life and I left her behind, and scratched myself.

And all of a sudden he`s swimming for his life, crystal clear lake- like conditions, doesn`t make a lot of sense. But let`s get back to the pornographic photos. This dovetails with what a woman told me right here on ISSUES just yesterday.

Carrie Emerson says Gary Giordano called her up and offered her teen daughter a modeling job, and then quickly segued to an offer of three-way sex that involved a trip to Aruba. Listen to this.


CARRIE EMERSON, SAYS CONTACTED BY GIORDANO IN JULY: The original request was because he needed a model who could go to Aruba, and model for a swimwear catalog that he was working on, and that he had just lost his original model, so he needed somebody who could go right away, had a passport, was cute and was blonde. If I could fulfill his fantasy of having a mother-daughter three-some, he would take care of us financially for the rest of our lives.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So I am trying to get a picture here. Steve Moore, former FBI agent, a portrait is emerging. It would seem like there might be a perfect storm convergence of two different character types.

You have Robyn Gardner, who had recently lost her job as a dental assistant, and yet she was an aspiring model, and she had known this guy, met him online. And this is a guy who has a dark past, but also seems very charming, this Gary Giordano.

And she probably had no idea that he had two restraining orders filed against him by ex-women in his life, that ex-women in his life that accused him of secretly video-taping their sex and then posting it online.

She probably had no idea that when he had a fight with a woman in the past, she accused him of taking pornographic photos, and putting them in mailboxes of her neighbors.

She went down there maybe thinking that she was going to have a fun time with this travel companion, but she is also an aspiring model. So maybe he starts by saying, let`s take some photos, I want to help you get back into the business.

Now we hear him saying, oh, she was taking sleeping pills and waiters saying that she appeared woozy, was drinking vodka. Fill in the picture here. I am trying to create a portrait of what might have happened.

STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT: Well, obviously you`ve got a very sick individual in Giordano. I think the key is going to be going back to his computers at his house. I think those are going to be a treasure trove.

This whole thing about, you know, she may have been woozy because of a sleeping pill, he just gave that away. It is like, oh, by the way, I didn`t give her drugs. This guy is telegraphing every move he makes, and, frankly, what you`re going to find, if you go back through his history, is a lot of women who didn`t say anything, and that sentences -- that is just pushing it forward to the next woman until finally somebody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They did say something! They demanded to get restraining orders! They did say something.

MOORE: Some did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Two of them did.

MOORE: There has been criminal behavior in his past, I am going to guarantee you, and if he`s saying that I`ll pay you to be quiet, it may not be the first time he has made that offer to somebody, and I`ll bet you somebody has taken him up on it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s talk a little about how Robyn`s vulnerabilities might have played into this situation as we try to create a portrait of what may have happened, not to humiliate or embarrass her or her family, but to solve this puzzle so that we can maybe figure out what happened to her and do something about it.

Robyn`s boyfriend, Richard Forester, talked to Dr. Drew about Robyn`s issues with alcohol. Listen to this.


RICHARD FORESTER, ROBYN GARDNER`S BOYFRIEND: Happened once in my apartment, and once when we were at the beach. Again, a little bit too much to drink. She was screaming. An ex-boyfriend of hers had texted me, I asked her about it, she got mad, she started screaming, they called the police, police came, saw that there was nothing wrong, nobody was hurt, nobody was getting hurt or was about to get hurt, they left.

DREW PINSKY, HOST, "DR. DREW": Richard, did you ever worry about her alcohol relationship?

FORESTER: I did, definitely. It was a point of contention.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joey Jackson, defense attorney, add to that that Robyn Gardner had told her boyfriend, that man you just heard from, that she was going to be in Orlando with her parents. Instead, she went to Aruba with another man, who, according to the Huffington Post she said was her gay friend and he is clearly not gay.

So what do you make of it as we add these little bits of information?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, and there`s more to come, Jane, I`m sure, as they do the investigation, the FBI in cooperation with Aruban authorities.

Look, what I would like to know is whether or not this man, and whatever the relationship was, did he know of her vulnerabilities? Did he know whether or not she drank or she partied or she would be someone that he could take advantage of?

And as a defense attorney, I would be very concerned for a number of reasons, primarily not only because of his background and two orders of protection that you mentioned, but if you look at it, it is all starting sort of to crumble, the story.

When you talk about the life insurance policy, what bothers me about that from a defense perspective, is now you have motivation. Did he, in fact, lure her down there in a premeditated way to perhaps make money by killing her, going to collect or try to collect two days later?

It is very fishy. And I think day after day as the investigation continues and the forensic continues, it is only going to get worse, which is problematic, of course, for him, Jane. So we`ll see.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And as you mentioned, this is not a smart move by a criminal mastermind. Two days after she goes missing, he calls up trying to collect on the $1.5 million accidental death policy he took out on her. This is alleged according to published reports. Not a bright idea.

We are going to talk about the Jose Baez ethics investigation. Is it a witch-hunt? And also more on the Robyn Gardner pornographic photos, the woman is missing. We want to help find her. What happened down there in Aruba?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is a suspect for murder, but there`s no proof to my knowledge, I don`t see any proof. I don`t see any -- there`s no proof and there`s no motive. I don`t see any motive either.




SAVIDGE: We want to give you a time reference, and show you the terrain here of the critical last hours. We are approaching here the Rum Reef Bar and Grill. This is the last known place in public that Gary Giordano and Robyn Gardner were seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are starting a new search, either tomorrow or the day after, they are organizing a new search, it`s going to be a land search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aruban authorities are investigating a $1.5 million insurance policy that Gary Giordano, the prime suspect in the disappearance of Robyn Gardner, had purchased.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is Robyn Gardner? A 35-year-old beauty from Maryland who went on a trip of a lifetime to paradise, and it turned to hell. Her travel companion, Gary Giordano, a man with a very dark, disturbing past, including two restraining orders filed against him by other women, now behind bars, the prime suspect in her disappearance.

He claims they went snorkeling, and, oh, the weather got bad or the water got rough, something happened, and he decided to swim back to shore. Didn`t even look back behind him, because he was worried about saving his own life. That`s the story that he is making up. Perhaps. According to authorities. They don`t believe it. Let`s put it that way.

Linda, Texas, your question or thought.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi, thank you for calling. What`s your question or thought?

CALLER: Well, my question is like why can`t they do a lie detector test on this gentleman?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s an excellent question. Steve Moore, I think we should do a lie detector test. But it is not admissible in court. The only thing it is, is an investigative tool, right?

MOORE: It`s just an investigative tool. And it`s sometimes very useful. But he doesn`t have to take one. If I were betting, I would say he doesn`t want to get near a lie detector.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What I am hearing in published reports, there are so many elements coming in on this story, is that this guy, Gary Giordano, wears a lot of toupees, and that it was hard for the authorities to keep track of his whereabouts because on the surveillance video, it gave him different appearance in different locations.

I want to go back out to Martin Savidge. And we`re going to talk to you, you`re right there at ground zero at Baby Beach I understand or near there. We`re going to show a map. Just describe to us what are the key elements? Because I`m a little confused as to where did they have dinner versus where did they supposedly go scuba diving, which the cops don`t even believe happened possibly? Give us the lay of the land here.

SAVIDAGE: Well, they had lunch supposedly some time after 2:00 at the Rum Reef Bar and Grill, that is located right next door to a dive shop, in what used to be called the Nanky (ph) Country Club. It might look like a strip mall.

And this is located about 200 yards away from Baby Beach, which is this very beautiful postcard-looking kind of bay. It`s a man-made area that many people, many tourists like to go swimming.

But apparently Gary Giordano decided that now they don`t want to go where most of the public goes, so he goes directly behind this restaurant and dive shop to a much rougher area, and I mean that literally in the sense of the landscape and also the waves.

And it`s a very rocky, difficult area to enter the water, especially if you have got flippers on or something like this. But this is the area where he led police, and said, yes, this is where we were swimming, we got into 20 feet of water, it was over my head.

He signaled, I am going back to shore. And this is when he said all the trouble began, and this was in the statement of the documents we got today, where he said that he started going back to shore, and apparently runs into trouble.

The authorities said, did you ever look behind you to see if Robyn was coming back to shore with you? And that`s when he made the comment, no, he said, I was too busy struggling to save my own life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this question. Because I know that they found blood on a rock behind that restaurant where they supposedly dined, and a hand print. Now what I thought was the weirdest thing about this is that the restaurant workers, according to an ABC News report, said that she appeared woozy when they were having a late lunch, and this is right before she disappeared. And that they were drinking vodka, and that he told cops that, oh, she had been taking sleeping pills.

Now, how on earth do you go scuba diving after drinking vodka and sleeping pills, and also -- I meant snorkeling, if you`re snorkeling, where did she get her snorkel equipment? Because I don`t think that anybody is going to believe that she brought snorkel equipment with her from Maryland.

SAVIDGE: OK, a lot of questions there. So let`s begin with the blood. Today, authorities are denying there was any blood. Yesterday they said they could not confirm or deny. Today they say there never was any blood. The same is true they say of that used condom. They say that isn`t true as well. So they are totally nixing what appeared to be very strong evidence there that could have led somewhere.

As to the diving equipment, they say that they have not located any snorkeling equipment that they believe was related to Robyn Gardner. They say that Gary Giordano had claimed that he had brought his own.

The drinking aspect. Gary Giordano, in his statements to police, said that they did not have any drinks after the restaurant. He did insinuate at one point he left the restaurant to go to the car to have a drink.

They don`t go into why, but it would appear that maybe they`re drinking away from the restaurant. He denies there was sleeping pills or pills. That`s what he told police.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Thank you for that. Excellent. More on the other side.




COURT SECRETARY (through translator): It is a notification of an extension on the case. They are giving a time extension of 15 days.

VAN DER SLOOT: That only says that you gave this paper to me, nothing more.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, take a look at that. That is Joran van der Sloot. He must have put on 20 pounds behind bars in Peru. And there`s concern tonight that he could be released if the Peruvian authorities don`t get their act together and file charges against him for allegedly murdering Stephany Flores, a woman who was found dead in his hotel room.

This is another case very similar to the Natalee Holloway case. Joran van der Sloot, obviously you remember Natalee Holloway who disappeared, this beautiful, beautiful young woman on her high school vacation trip to cap off her high school years, on a trip to Aruba, hooked up with this guy. They were hanging out at Carlos and Charlie`s and she was never seen again after taking off in a car with Joran van der Sloot and a couple of his friends.

So it`s very bizarre that there is this new development in his case, since he then finally ended up in Peru where he is suspected of killing a young woman there. And now that young woman`s family very concerned that he could be let out if the Peruvian authorities don`t get their act together and file charges against him.

So could we have two missing American women in Aruba? Natalee Holloway and Robyn Gardner, whose fate is never determined. Frankie, North Carolina, your question or thought, Frankie?

CALLER: Hello, Jane. Thanks for taking my call. I love your show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks for calling. Thank you.

CALLER: And my question is the man from Maryland, his name fails me right now, but is there any way we can know how many times he has been to Aruba or how well he knows Aruba?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s an excellent question. Martin Savidge, this guy apparently was offering a lot of different women, oh come on a cruise with me, come on a trip to Aruba with me.

The Aruban authorities know how to dig up Aruba. They learned how to search for a body unfortunately during the Natalee Holloway case. They have been searching high and low. They haven`t found any site at all or any evidence of Robyn Gardner.

How would he know, presuming for a second that he did do something with her body, and we don`t want to convict him, he is innocent, but how would he know where to discard a body if he didn`t know the area, the terrain?

SAVIDGE: Well, Jane, you and the caller actually bring up very excellent points, and a question that has been asked often. Had he been to Aruba before? We`re talking about Gary Giordano.

The answer from authorities is that, no, they have no record that he was here on the island at any time previous. So what`s interesting though is that also he made statements to authorities that he only started really knowing about Aruba a couple days before the trip.

That he heard that Robyn wanted to go there, so he went on a Web site, he Googled the trip and, bam, everything was arranged.

However, we also know now of other women who have come forward who months previous said, no, he was talking about Aruba then. So it is clear that his knowledge of Aruba, at least learning on it from the Web, may go back some distance.

But this, too, how did he know this rather secluded spot to go to? Authorities say he and Robyn went to the same place the day before. And they wonder if he wasn`t doing some sort of survey.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to leave it right there, Martin. But thank you so much for your reporting.



JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: She could be 13 years old, have her father`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in her mouth, and then go to school and play with the other kids as if nothing ever happened.


ANTHONY: I want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did. Sorry. Sorry.

CROWD: Justice for Caylee.

BAEZ: We would at this time renew our motion for mistrial.

PERRY: The motion for mistrial will be denied.

BAEZ: My apologies to the court.

Whether it is this laughing guy here or whether it is myself.

PERRY: Sustained.

BAEZ: The defense rests.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight, all out war between Florida`s powers that be and Casey Anthony`s defense attorney, Jose Baez. The clock is ticking, people. Check your calendars.

Casey Anthony is due back in Florida a week from tomorrow. Is she going to show up? Well, now the powers that be are also going after her lawyer.

Hi, everyone, I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City.

Casey`s defense team filed their appeal of this whole probation -- the order that Casey return to do her probation. The defense is appealing that. They filed an emergency appeal just yesterday. Now we are learning there could be new legal troubles for her defense attorney, Jose Baez. It`s complicated but let`s give you the shorthand version.

When Judge Perry ruled Casey had to return to Orlando, he said Jose Baez should have informed the court that Casey was doing probation in jail, which was kind of on a technicality because that wasn`t the intent of the original judge. He wanted her to do probation after she got out of jail, not while she was in jail. And Judge Belvin Perry said Jose Baez figured that out and didn`t inform the court that on some technicality Casey was doing probation behind bars while she was awaiting trial for murder for which she was acquitted.

Now the Florida Bar Association confirms that a complaint has been filed against Jose Baez. Could he be disbarred? He doesn`t think so. He said quote, "I am looking forward to the bar completing its investigation so that it can be dismissed just like the 20 previous complaints. It is part of the job whenever you fight an unpopular cause."

Is all this a witch-hunt to persecute Casey and the people that got her free?

Listen to Judge Larry Seidlin right here on ISSUES.


JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, PRESIDED OVER ANNA NICOLE SMITH CASE: If she spits the wrong way on the street, she`s going to be back in front of Judge Perry, and they are going to give her the toughest probation officer there is in Orlando.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Casey being unfairly targeted? Give me a call. I want to hear what you think, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Ok. Attorney Mike Eiglarsh, here is the basic. The judge who originally said Casey had to do probation, Judge Stan Strickland said after she gets out. Of course, nobody really expected her to ever get out, that`s part of the problem.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So the guy who`s transcribing it gets it wrong and doesn`t include "after you get out upon release".


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she starts doing her probation right away behind bars so when she`s released and we see that famous photo of her walking out of jail, she`s free and clear to do whatever she wants. This upsets the powers that be in Orlando a lot. They`re already embarrassed that the prosecution lost the case.

So now they are going after Jose Baez, the judges, saying he`s the one to blame for her getting to walk out free and clear because he knew -- he knew that the judge meant for her to do probation after she got out and he never informed the court. What are your thoughts, Mark?

EIGLARSH: Well, I have been very critical of Jose in the past. On this issue, let`s make it very clear, he has done nothing ethically wrong, and I know a lot of people are yelling at the screen right now.

Let me explain. It was not for him to fix an error that benefited his client. The judge signed off on that error. Why didn`t the judge catch it? The prosecutors, they said nothing. When a defense lawyer sees something happen in court, let`s say the judge says you`re going to do 14 years in prison and then the clerk writes down four years in prison. What, the defense lawyers are supposed to say "Judge, I think the clerk made an error. My client should really do 14 years."

It is not our obligation. In fact, I would argue that we are ethically bound not to correct something like that at all. Our benefit -- our job, our function is to benefit our clients.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen to what Judge Perry said. He singled out Jose Baez in his probation ruling and he said the defense acknowledged in court that Mr. Baez knew about the error but contended he didn`t have any obligation to inform the court. That`s what you just said.

But here is what the judge said. "While zealous advocacy is the cornerstone of good lawyering, zeal cannot give way to unprofessionalism."

EIGLARSH: I disagree. I disagree. Judge Perry has done a wonderful job throughout the case. But let`s say you`re in traffic court and the judge says you have a great record, I`m going to go ahead and give you no points and just court costs. What -- I am supposed to say hold on, my client has a record dating back to the disco crisis, a horrible driver, not just in this state but in other states," you`re nuts. Of course we`re not supposed to tell the judge that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a feeling you`re going to be getting some hateful e-mails in.

EIGLARSH: That`s ok. That`s how I feel.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Holly, Illinois. Your question or thought, Holly.

HOLLY, ILLINOIS (via telephone): With all due respect to Mark and he`s a Florida attorney, I have two law licenses here -- I mean two law degrees here in Illinois. And while jurisdictions may vary, there`s something called the model code of professional ethics, and it is a separate and discreet test which is part of the bar exam.

And while we don`t volunteer as defense attorneys what our clients have done wrong, once there`s been court order entered by Judge Strickland, which we all heard -- I heard here in a suburb of Chicago while watching it live -- and if the defense was aware of it, just like if you are aware of a case that`s directly in contradiction to yours, you are obligated at least in this jurisdiction to make the court aware of the case that goes against you.

While what Mark says is you`re not volunteering of some prior bad acts of your client, that`s apples and oranges. What Jose Baez did was aware of a discrepancy as a policy -- as an ethical matter.


EIGLARSH: Thoroughly disagree.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got you Holly. I got you.

HOLLY: He`s obligated to tell the court that there`s something wrong. It is not a prior bad act where I had a DUI client and they had 12 --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly, you`re a great lawyer, we`re going to have you on as a guest. Get her number.

Mark, I`m going to give you ten seconds to respond.

EIGLARSH: Ok. I disagree with Holly. She is not a Florida lawyer, number one. And number two, if the judge asked Jose direction, how is this probation supposed to be served and he lies or he misleads the court, that`s one thing. That didn`t happen here. It just happened. And you know what? His client benefited.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say, clearly a lot of people are upset by the fact that Casey was acquitted of murder.

Let`s recap and review that anger. All right. We are not going to recap and review.

People are angry. You don`t need to see the video of them angry. We all saw the protesters. I`m angry. I think she got away with something, ok? There they are.

We got to know and become friends with these people. I spent hours with these people outside court, that lady in particular right there.

They`re angry but I don`t necessarily think the way to respond to the public anger is by targeting the defense, ok? This is the third time in three weeks Casey and her lawyers have been targeted, ok? On July 29th, the prosecution bills Casey for $140,000 for trial costs. On August 1st, Judge Strickland amends the probation order so Casey has to return to Florida, even though the defense says she already served it behind bars. And then yesterday, the Florida bar announces it`s investigating Jose Baez.

Jayne Weintraub, I know you`re close to the defense, do they feel like they are being hit with some kind of witch-hunt, in a perhaps vindictive attempt to get back at them for the fact that the prosecution lost this big, big, big case and they`re embarrassed?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think it is obvious to everybody, Jane, that this is sour grapes and that this is a vindictive targeting move. It is almost as if this case just needs to go away. The case is over and it needs to go.

I mean this is like the Wicked Witch of the West saying, you know, to Dorothy, "And take your little dog, too."

Jose is a lawyer and has held himself out to be professional and responsible in the course of this case, unlike the prosecutors who by the way we have heard and it has been mentioned and stated in court and in the press that after the case was over, it was known that the prosecutors intentionally withheld very important computer evidence. That not only is a crime, but that is an ethical violation and there`s no bar complaint against the prosecutors.

Where are the prosecutors` duty to disclose to the judge wait a minute, there was a scrivener`s error. They are officers of the court. Why is it only Jose? That`s what I find most objectionable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here is my opinion, ok? My opinion is that I think the prosecution made some mistakes. And I actually said this while I was down there in Orlando.

Do I think she`s responsible? Yes. For her daughter`s death? Yes, I do. Do I feel like she got away with something? Yes. Do I blame Jose Baez? No. I think he put on a good case. And that`s one of the reasons why she was acquitted. But the other reason is that the prosecution made some mistakes.

For example, Exhibit A, I watched that whole case thinking, trying to put myself in the shoes of the jury. The prosecution contended that Casey Anthony used chloroform to kill her daughter. Did you or I ever learn how one makes chloroform from household products? No.

If you`re going to accuse somebody of killing somebody with chloroform, then please explain to me how you get chloroform mixed up and how you create it using household products. I had to go online and research it myself, and I found one of the ingredients is found in nail polish. I never heard that in the case either.

WEINTRAUB: Remember how many times you held up 84 in a sign on that TV? You held up 84, because that`s what the prosecutors wanted you to think, that`s how many hits there were on the computer. And now we know there was one hit, not 84 -- more complaints on the prosecutors.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. When we come back, Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session", who has been there for the duration and who knows Jose Baez very well.

Just a second -- we`ll be right back.



BAEZ: They gave you two weeks of testimony that was completely irrelevant and served only one purpose, and that was to paint Casey Anthony as a slut, as a party girl, as a girl who lies, and has absolutely nothing to do with how Caylee died.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A lot of people are upset about the verdict. I feel that justice wasn`t served with the verdict, but that`s on the jurors and the prosecution, it`s not necessarily on the defense.

I want to go out to Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session". You know Jose Baez, you`ve talked to him. Frankly I`ve had dinner with him, too. How does he feel, do you think, about the fact they are filing complaints against him with the Florida bar or the Florida bar is investigating complaints against him? Do you feel he thinks he is being persecuted?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, just for the record, I don`t know Jose Baez, I hardly spoke a word to him in three years, but I know Cheney Mason, the other half of the team because I worked with him and followed some of his cases for CourTV. But I have watched Jose Baez in the last three years.

So today when I was starting to do this story about a complaint filed by the Florida State Bar, my journalistic sense was I need to reach out and get the other side.

So I did get this comment. He did respond to me about, "I look forward to the bar completing its investigation so it can be dismissed just like the 20 previous complaints." I don`t think 20 previous complaints have been filed, Jane, I think that`s your answer right there.

Yes, he had other bar complaints filed during the pendency of the Casey Anthony case. We don`t know any that have gone forward because his disciplinary action is none according to the state bar. But I think he`s being sarcastic there.


CASAREZ: I think he`s getting used to it, you know. Bring them on -- hey, keep them coming.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You have to have a thick skin when you`re in a high profile case. And for all the people that hate Jose Baez because he represented the most hated woman in America, I would like to remind them that he`s a guy who while he made many mistakes, and we see that as his history has now been dissected. He also served our country in the navy and he worked his way up from very humble circumstances into being a lawyer.

So cut him some slack all right because he is not the one to be upset about if you`re upset about the verdict. Ok. All right.

Thank you, Jean Casarez.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now another very disturbing story.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The estranged husband of "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" cast member Taylor Armstrong was found dead in an apparent suicide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bashing got so bad last season.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This show led to his depression.

TAYLOR ARMSTRONG, "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS": A lot of the issues in my marriage were definitely addressed this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taylor had filed for divorce, something that Russell`s attorney told me Russell did not want.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said it is ratings, they don`t care about how people feel or how they are hurt or if it destroys their marriage.

RONALD RICHARDS, ATTORNEY AND FRIEND OF RUSSELL ARMSTRONG: The show characterized him as someone that abused his spouse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A tragic cautionary tale about the dangers of reality show fame.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some say reality show TV shattered the life of Russell Armstrong who committed suicide; that the estranged husband of "Real Housewife of Beverly Hills", Taylor Armstrong took his life to escape, escape what was coming next season.

He`s not the only one who`s had suicidal thoughts. A former "Real Housewife of New Jersey", Danielle Stout is coming forward to say scenes like this took her to the same dark place. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put him in the car. Put him in my car right now. Get her to my car right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you stop? Stop it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who do you think you are? Leave her alone.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am hurt to say the least that they feel that they have to treat me like this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is reality TV pushing stars too far? What should Bravo do? Dylan Howard, senior executive editor, "Star Magazine", I understand Bravo had a crisis meeting at appropriately enough a Hollywood Beverly Hills mansion. Tell us all about it.

DYLAN HOWARD, SENIOR EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "STAR MAGAZINE": Well, Jane, the breaking news, a reporter according to "Hollywood Reporter" in recent moments is suggesting that the network Bravo has decided after those crisis talks that you mentioned at the home of Adrienne Maloof to delay the premiere of its hit franchise "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills". There is no official confirmation from Bravo about this. But it most certainly seems that they are reacting to the stunning news that occurred earlier this week.

Now, you mentioned that meeting yesterday. The cast and crew were summoned to top level talks. But we don`t know exactly what went on at those talks because indeed everyone associated with the show has been gagged. The network is so concerned about the fallout to this. This at a time when one of its case story lines of the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hill" Season Two is sharp in focus: domestic violence against Taylor Armstrong.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. And what are they going to do? If they cut it out, can they still call it reality TV? Russell`s mother on the other side.


JOHN ANN HOTCHKISS, MOTHER OF RUSSELL ARMSTRONG: Before the new season started, before he took his life. He said, "Mom, they`re just going to crucify me this season." And he said, "I don`t know what to do." He said, "I`ll never survive it."

And I thought he meant business-wise or something. Now perhaps there was a double meaning there, I don`t know.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The man you`re looking at has tragically committed suicide, and we`re here tonight talking with his devastated mother, John Ann Hotchkiss, who is speaking to us, because she knows that her son can`t speak for himself.

Thank you for joining us John Ann.

What do you think Bravo should do? They`ve announced or we`re hearing reports that they`re going to postpone it. But that`s not the same as editing your son out or canceling it. What are your thoughts?

HOTCHKISS: Well, my feelings are, I don`t want my son in even one frame of that show again because he`s deceased now, and because of the reasons he`s deceased.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you speak up, ma`am, I can`t hear you, I`m sorry.

HOTCHKISS: I`m sorry, I said I don`t want to see my son or even hear of him being seen in even one frame of "The Housewives of Beverly Hills. He`s dead now. And it`s -- a lot of it is because of the pressures, financial, emotional, et cetera caused by trying to keep up -- you know the old saying, "keep up with the Joneses.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: John Ann, if they do run footage of him at some point in the future, are you going to take any legal action?

HOTCHKISS: Oh, I better not see one frame. I better not hear one frame. And that goes for all the family. We are circling the wagons.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And if there is a frame of him on a "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" episode in the future?

HOTCHKISS: There better not be.


Hotchkiss: Let`s just leave it at that. I mean it, our family means it, the mother of his sons means it; we`ve suffered a terrible loss. And I`m not saying they caused it all, but I watched it actually happen on screen.

It was so sad. I asked Russell, can`t you stop the bashing? Can`t you talk to the producer? And he said, "Well, this is the way reality TV is." I said, "Russell, this is brutal."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know this is a very difficult time for you. But your son isn`t here to defend himself.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, there are claims that your son had a volatile relationship with Taylor, his estranged wife, and that it got physical. What would you like to say about that?

HOTCHKISS: I spent a year in California not long after they married, not with them. I had my own place. But he needed help in his office with filing et cetera, he asked me if I would come out and pitch in. I did.

And they seemed blissful. They seemed so happy for the longest time after they married. They had a nanny for Kennedy after she was born. They were able to get away and go out to dinner and all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it`s your belief that the show turned the relationship? We`re almost out of time, yes or no?

HOTCHKISS: I do. I don`t mean, you know --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. John Ann -- thank you so much.

HOTCHKISS: I honestly do.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Dale Archer, psychiatrist, your thoughts?

DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I think that the light does need to be shined on these reality shows. And let me tell you the way it works. Basically, they seduce you with thoughts of red carpet, glamour and fame and being a TV star, but what you have to do is sign away all rights to any way they depict you on these shows. And most people don`t know that.

So it`s the good, the bad and the ugly. And once you sign on that paper, the production company and the network has a right to put you in any light they choose.

Obviously this was a guy who was already unstable and that all of this was going to be shown before the world. And, of course, it was the stress that was too great for him to be able to bear.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is -- some have called it a pact with the devil because --

ARCHER: It is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- once you sign that away, you lose control over what you want to keep private and what you don`t.

"NANCY GRACE" up next.