CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

CONNECT THE WORLD

Stocks Slide Again; A Grim Scenario; Phone Hacking Scandal; Texas Wildfires; Big Night for European Soccer; Peaceful Resolution No Longer Possible in Libya

Aired September 6, 2011 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE MARIA AZNAR, FORMER SPANISH PRIME MINISTER: The euro can disappear, if there don't exist at serious political decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MAX FOSTER, HOST: A grim scenario painted by Spain's former prime minister, as the Eurozone's problems get more serious by the minute.

Tonight, as stocks slide again across the globe, we'll hear whether the collapse of the euro is now a real possibility.

Plus, just where is Colonel Gadhafi, after two Libyan convoys crossed into Niger?

And...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: all I know is that there was trouble and I wanted to warn everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Remember 9/11 -- we'll hear from the flight dispatcher who tried in vain to prevent a tragedy.

These stories and more tonight as we connect the world.

It was a tough Tuesday for the world markets, with Europe's debt pain being felt on both sides of the Atlantic. Wall Street was doomed from the start, really, the Dow falling sharply not long after the bell. It finished around 98 points lower, down .89 percent.

It was a similar story across the board. The NASDAQ also lost ground.

Shares in Europe fell to their lowest close in more than two years.

The FTSE did manage to inch up slightly, though. And it was a good day for Switzerland, actually. Stocks there were up almost 4.5 percent on the back of a decision to put a cap on the value of the franc. We'll have more on that in just a few minutes.

Trading will start in Asia in just a few hours, after Japan's Nikkei hit a two-and-a-half year low on those European debt woes and worries about the slowing U.S. economy.

Let's have a closer look at the market numbers now.

We're joined by CNN's Karina Huber.

She's at the New York Stock Exchange for us -- Karina.

KARINA HUBER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Max, well, we actually had a close that wasn't as bad as one might have expected. The trading session was pretty choppy throughout the day. At one point, the Dow was down by more than 300 points and managed to close lower by about 100 points.

Still, investors were very worried about those high debt problems in Europe and how far that will spread, namely, will it spread to Italy.

And here at home in the U.S., the economy is barley moving. So that's hanging over everything from consumer spending, of course, which accounts for the bulk of our growth in the U.S., business spending, the housing market.

Financial shares were again the hardest hit today, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Wells Fargo and the others were all closing lower by about 2 to 4 percent.

Now keep in mind, on Friday, the federal agency overseeing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac filed lawsuits against 17 banks to recoup losses related to mortgage-backed securities. So that's been weighing on the financials.

Separately, Bank of America is reportedly considering axing even more jobs. So that company has been hit particularly hard lately.

Now, two stocks that were on the winning side that we can tell you about are International Paper and Temple-Inland. They gained 25 percent and 9 percent, respectively. That's because of some M&A action. This is after International Paper reached an agreement to acquire Temple-Inland for $3.5 billion -- Max.

FOSTER: Karina, thank you very much, indeed.

Well, just a correction for you. The Nikkei in Japan was down 2.2 percent, so a slightly off figure for us. But it was certainly down.

Now, here's a look at exactly what investors are having to digest right now. Here in Europe, Switzerland is firmly in focus. The Swiss franc took its biggest plunge in more than 20 years, as the nation's central bank dramatically intervened to weaken its currency and prop up the economy.

Investors have been piling money into their currency as a safe haven against the euro. And that has sent the Swiss franc soaring and the currency's appreciation has had a crippling impact, really.

Now, thousands of workers went on strike, meanwhile, in Italy. On Tuesday, the country's senate began debating a raft of security measures. And that caused all sorts of problems there. As many walked out, the government announced it would call for a vote of confidence in the senate on Wednesday.

Now, expect investors to have eyes on Germany tomorrow, as well. This is the story there. Europe's bailout of struggling Eurozone countries could face fresh obstacles on Wednesday, when Germany's constitutional court rules on the bailouts' legality.

And, finally, on to Spain. Now, Spain's finance minister has again denied suggestions that the country was close to needing a bailout last month. Yields on Spanish bonds a direct indicator of investor jitters over the country's debt have skyrocketed recently.

So what does all this volatility actually mean for the euro?

The single currency came into being 12 years ago and held such promise for Europe, didn't it?

I spoke to CNN's Richard Quest a little earlier and I asked him if anything can save the euro.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD QUEST, HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": The Eurozone crisis has rumbled on pretty much since 2008. And the leaders have had numerous attempts to try and get, as we say, ahead of the curve.

They have singularly failed to do so. Things have got perhaps a little bit better. But when you have got crises in Italy, and we do have tonight, and you've got worries about Spain, and you've got the Greece issue still not resolved and questions on the next tranche of money to be paid to Greece and you still have got the vote in Germany, you've been through the list, the European leaders cannot say with certainty that they have got a grasp on this at the moment. And that is the problem. That is why what's happening this month, now, is as serious as it is.

FOSTER: And the remarkably frank conversation you had today with a former European leaner -- leader. He took Spain into the euro.

QUEST: Jose Maria Aznar, the former prime minister of Spain, he is obviously committed to the European project. But when asked what was going to happen to the euro and when put some basic questions, his answers were less than, perhaps, straightforward and forthcoming about the survival of the single currency.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

The question now is dramatic. And the question is more or less the -- this -- if the euro can disappear, if that don't exist at serious political decisions, especially from part of Germans, to -- to resolve, politically, this -- this situation, not only in the peripheral countries, the situation of the lack of trust in the future of the eurozone.

This is a question. This is -- now, this is -- tragically, this is the question.

QUEST: Do you believe the euro will survive?

AZNAR: I think -- I -- I wish the euro survives, because a crisis in the euro will be a crisis in the European Union. And maybe it will be, it will means that -- that the European Union will disappear. And this is, for me, a serious concern.

QUEST: But the fact that you're not saying definitively that you think it will survive raises the very doubt that there is a real risk that it might not survive.

AZNAR: Political is very -- it's especially important that the euro survive.

QUEST: Economically?

AZNAR: And politically, because the -- for the euro is the most important political expression of the European Union and the Eurozone. And the political consequences of the -- and the criticism in the euro of the separation of the euro that there -- that will be very complicated to manage in Europe.

QUEST: Do you believe that your country, Spain, will avoid or will need a bailout?

AZNAR: Since the moment that the European Central Bank, this summer, buying Spanish bonds, we living under some kind of intervention, Spain and Italy, a different intervention that creates political island (ph). But this decision of the European Central Bank means a kind of intervention in the Spanish economy.

Spain has the capacity to -- to improve the situation, absolutely. The country has the capacity. But we need a new political formula, a new political government, take Australia's decision and living in -- in a -- in a landscape that makes possible that the decision of the new government...

QUEST: Right.

AZNAR: -- means that the possibility to -- for -- for growth.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

QUEST: What I was most surprised at is if you ask European politicians, do you believe the euro will survive, they will say, yes, must do. No question about it. Absolutely. Over the hill we go. He didn't say that. And what it reflects, an honesty that many European leaders will now tell you privately, which is this. Yes, the euro will survive, but there will have to be dramatic changes on governance, on consolidation and things like master criteria convergence.

FOSTER: So what will people in Europe watching right now see as a difference when this crisis is over, do you think?

QUEST: What they will see is a euro -- is those members of the Eurozone much more deeply integrated, much more closely related economically or some members not there.

But what -- I'll give you one example. Today, I got an e-mail from a -- a brokerage, an investment house, which talks about the costs of break- up of the euro versus the costs of bailout.

People are now actually doing the quantifiable cost.

Is it better to be in or break it up?

Where does the economics now lie in that situation?

The -- it has got so dire and they seemingly have no answers on this, that that's the situation at the moment.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

FOSTER: Richard Quest speaking to me earlier.

Well, coming up on CONNECT THE WORLD, more pressure on James Murdoch, the head of News International, as the phone hacking inquiry resumes. That's in two minutes.

A big night of Euro 2012 soccer qualifiers. We'll tell you why Dutch fans are smiling in 10.

And convoys from Libya raise questions about Moammar Gadhafi's whereabouts. We'll have a live update later.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: I'm Max Foster in London.

You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD.

And here's a look at other stories we're following for you this hour.

The inquiry into alleged phone hacking by a newspaper in the U.K. has reopened in London, with fresh allegations against the head of News International, James Murdoch. His company owns the now defunct newspaper, "The News of the World." And the British prime minister also faced questions.

CNN's Atika Shubert is following the hearing and sent this update.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, several former News International executives were grilled by lawmakers today. MPs are trying to figure out just how far the phone hacking went at News International and when did top executives know about it, particularly James Murdoch. they're also looking into allegations that News International may have attempted to cover up the extent of the phone hacking.

A lot of tough questions today, particularly for former editor, Colin Myler, but also former News International lawyer, Tom Crone.

In fact, this is one heated exchange between Labour MP Tom Watson and Tom Crone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM WATSON, LABOUR MP: That is you didn't see it as gross misconduct, did you?

You just thought it was a reporter's job at "News of the World".

TOM CRONE, FORMER EDITOR, NEWS INTERNATIONAL: That is absolute nonsense.

WATSON: And as far as you're concerned, the only problem was he got caught.

CRONE: That is nonsense.

WATSON: That and so now you had to conceal the crime.

CRONE: That is nonsense.

WATSON: You were desperate to ensure that it didn't become known that hacking was standard practice at "News of the World," weren't you?

CRONE: That is not true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHUBERT: Now, both Myler and Crone say they had a 15 minute conversation with James Murdoch telling him about a particular e-mail. And in that e-mail was the transcript of a hacked voice-mail message to be sent to "News of the World's" top reporter.

And that e-mail suggests that phone hacking was not limited to one rogue reporter, that it, in fact, may have been more widespread.

Now, James Murdoch put out a statement through News International today, saying that he stands by his previous testimony that he was not aware of that e-mail. A part of that statement, he said, quote: "As I said in my testimony, there was nothing discussed in that meeting that led me to believe that a further investigation was necessary."

Now, MPs have said there is still the possibility that they will recall James Murdoch to explain these apparently contradictory statements. At the same time, the Leveson inquiry, which is the judicial inquiry into phone hacking, had its preliminary hearing today. That judicial inquiry is expected to go on for the next year, so it does seem that we are, at this point, simply at the beginning stages of numerous investigations into the phone hacking scandal.

Atika Shubert, CNN, London.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

FOSTER: More fallout from Israel's deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla after demands for an apology were rebuffed, Turkey today announced a -- a freeze in arms trade and all bilateral military ties. Israel says it doesn't want its relationship with Turkey to deteriorate any further. It's expressed regrets for the deaths of nine Turkish activists aboard the flotilla last year, but it would not apologize for what it calls actions of self-defense.

On the eve of the Arab League's chief visit to Syria, more problems for the regime of Bashar al-Assad. A video has surfaced showing the apparent defection of 12 soldiers. The man you see speaking gives his full name and military unit. He says he's seen massacres committed by the regime with his own eyes. He also claims responsibility for a bus attack that killed six Syrian troops on Monday.

CNN can't independently verify the video.

Texas remains under threat from wildfires which have forced hundreds to flee their homes near Austin and Houston, as Chris -- Chris Welch now reports, firefighters are struggling to gain the upper hand against the flames, the winds and the fatigue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WELCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): County by county, neighborhood by neighborhood, these wildfires are charring anything that stands in their way. More than 60 fires have erupted in at least 17 counties since the weekend.

Governor Rick Perry toured the damage again Tuesday and made a plea to the public.

GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: Stay out of harm's way. Follow instructions. When there is a call for an evacuation, take it very seriously. Yes, your homes and your possessions are important, but there's nothing more important than people's lives.

WELCH: Thousands of people forced to evacuate can only wait and hope that their homes and belongings are spared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My house. I don't know, maybe -- maybe my honeymoon (INAUDIBLE). Oh my god.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to lose anything that I've worked all my life to get.

WELCH: Those same dry, windy conditions that spawned these fires are making it tough for firefighters to gain ground on them. But they may catch a break, at least temporarily.

MARK KAY HICKS, TEXAS FOREST SERVICE: The good news is the wind has died down all night. It gives the firefighters a chance to get in here. And then today, the wind is supposed to be light, 10 to 15, maybe. So it will give us a chance to hopefully get an upper hand.

The National Weather Service says though it won't be as hot the next few days, it's going to stay very dry. And that makes people who are waiting to hear about their homes very nervous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God help us. That's all. That's all I can do right now.

WELCH (on camera): This is the worst fire season the state of Texas has ever seen. Texas Governor Rick Perry says there's been more than 3.5 million acres burned in the last 10 months alone.

And we have also heard fire officials say today is the 290th consecutive day that they've been fighting fires.

Reporting from Bastrop, Texas, I'm Chris Welch.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

FOSTER: Well, man has been arrested in Sydney, Australia after an 11 hour hostage drama. He barricaded himself into a suburban legal office with a 12 -year-old girl believed to be his daughter. Police cordoned off the streets after the man threatened to set off a bomb. At one stage, he was seen hanging out of the window, the office window, wearing a barrister's wig. Police say the young girl is distressed, but she's uninjured.

Wildlife authorities in the Philippines have reportedly captured the largest saltwater crocodile on record. At 6.4 meters, the crocodile is longer than an average giraffe is tall. That's nearly four times the size of an average human. And at more than 1,000 kilograms, this croc weighs more than the original Mini Cooper, would you believe?

And the crocodile hunters were actually looking for a still at large, and guess what, even bigger crocodile.

Coming up on CONNECT THE WORLD, still haunted by 9/11 -- we talk to one man who tried in vain to warn United Airlines Flight 93 of cockpit intruders.

But first, after the break, why Dutch fans are smiling on a big night for European soccer. We'll have the latest on the 2012 qualifiers for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: A big night for European soccer, with a number of 2012 qualifiers taking place. Some of those matches are still underway, but the Dutch are celebrating already. The Netherlands beat Finland 2-0 in Helsinki, meaning they are nearly through to the finals in Poland and Ukraine next year.

Pedro joins us in the studio.

A good night of football -- Pedro.

PEDRO PINTO, CNN "WORLD SPORT" ANCHOR: Yes, a lot of games being played throughout the continent, 23, to be exact. You know, besides the hosts, which are Poland and the Ukraine, only one team has automatically qualified and that was Germany. They guaranteed that over the weekend.

You were talking about the Netherlands and they beat Finland 2-0 in Helsinki earlier on Tuesday. That means they're just one point away from securing their place in the finals.

Now, the Netherlands have just been spectacular in qualifying for major tournaments recently. They won all eight of their matches on the way to the 2010 FIFA World Cup. And now they've won all eight of their qualifiers for Euro 2012.

On the night in Finland, it was relatively comfortable, although the Finns nearly scored here. Kevin Strootman, the PSV midfielder, put them in the lead in the first half and then an injury time. Luuk de Jong made it safe. Max, the Netherlands are just really, really hard to beat at the moment, and they're really at the same caliber as Germany and Spain when it comes to the top teams in Europe.

FOSTER: But it's looking good as a tournament.

PINTO: Yes.

FOSTER: Meanwhile, golf has been affected somewhat by the weather, right?

PINTO: Oh, you mean the tennis?

FOSTER: The tennis?

(LAUGHTER)

PINTO: I -- I will talk about the U.S. Open in just a minute.

I have some other matches I want to get to from the...

(LAUGHTER)

PINTO: -- from the Euro qualifying on...

FOSTER: OK, do that first.

PINTO: -- on your...

FOSTER: And then we're going to talk tennis, right?

PINTO: The European 2012. Italy are in action against Slovenia. And I can tell you, that's 0-0 still. And a big game for the Italians because they need all three points in Florence, if they want to stay at the top of their group, which is Group C.

And right now at Wembley, England, they're playing against wales. That's a Group G encounter. England up 1-0 as we speak. The only goal scored in the 35th minute by Ashley Young. England, who played really well against Bulgaria in Sofia over the weekend.

Now, I will get to the tennis, Max.

FOSTER: You would.

PINTO: I can tell you that...

FOSTER: You finally would.

PINTO: I will.

Organizers of the U.S. Open must be really sweating right now, because they're thinking how are they going to finish the tournament on time?

It's just that today's play has been completely washed out by rain. And the weather could continue to affect the schedule for the rest of the week in New York. Now, it could be only the third time in the last 24 years that the final is moved past the second Sunday. The four men's and two women's matches scheduled for Tuesday have been rescheduled, most beginning in the morning local time on Wednesday. And there will be a lot -- a lot of questions asked about the organizers, because the weather forecast, Max, isn't looking great in New York for the rest of the week.

And we will have more on what we can expect in New York on "WORLD SPORT." Also more from the European qualifiers in about an hour's time.

FOSTER: Coming up.

Thank you very much, Pedro.

And straight ahead, is Moammar Gadhafi on the run, meanwhile?

Two convoys that left Libya set off a flurry of speculation about the former strongman. We'll be live for you with an update.

Also, imagine living in a place where one third of the world's population is within a three hour reach. We'll visit a city on the cutting edge of urban planning.

Later, the world stood in solidarity with America after 9/11, but has that goodwill evaporated in the decade since?

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: You're back with CONNECT THE WORLD, the world's -- on CNN, the world's news leader.

Let's check the headlines for you this hour.

Israel says it does not want relations with Turkey to deteriorate any further. But Turkey appears unwilling to forgive Israel's raid on a Gaza- bound flotilla last year. Turkey's prime minister now says Ankara is freezing defense industry ties with Israel. Nine people, mostly Turks, were killed in the raid.

Stock markets across Europe were stunned by the news that Switzerland plans to put a cap on the value of the Swiss franc. Stocks have also fallen on Wall Street after the Labor Day holiday. The Dow Jones lost almost 1 percent.

Members of Italy's largest union have been on strike in several cities. They're protesting unpopular austerity measures moving through parliament. The work stoppage has caused transportation problems across the country.

Cooler temperatures and calmer winds may help firefighters in Texas. They need the help badly, as dozens of wildfires are burning across the state. The biggest blaze has swallowed up almost 600 homes. At least two people died in one of the fires.

TV cameras are to be allowed into British courts for the first time, but they'll be limited the showing only judges delivering sentences. Witnesses, victims, defendants and juries will not be filmed.

Gunfire is -- gunfire ends any hope of negotiating a peaceful resolution in the stand-off in Bani Walid. That is according to Libya's transitional rulers, who say their patience has now run out.

Anti-Gadhafi fighters surrounding the regime's stronghold had been talking with town elders, trying to negotiate a surrendered. But today, they say pro-Gadhafi forces fired on elders returning from the talks.

Also today, the news that convoys have left Libya set off intense speculation that Moammar Gadhafi might be on board. But the consensus now seems to be probably not. officials in Niger confirm that two Libyan convoys crossed into their country this week. One is said to be in the capital after passing through Agadez, while the other was reportedly heading in that direction.

There's speculation the convoys may travel on to Burkina Faso, a country that has ruled out granting asam -- asylum to Moammar Gadhafi.

All right, let's get an update on all of these developments for you right now.

Our Ben Wedeman is now in Tripoli, after spending much of the day near Bani Walid -- Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we were in Bani Walid. And it was a pretty slow day. Apparently, the NTC met all through the night with elders from Bani Walid and gave them assurances that there would be no retribution, that they would be treated as ordinary Libyans.

But when those elders returned to Bani Walid to convey these assurances to the inhabitants of the town, apparently gunmen met them at the entrance to the town, opened fire on them, according to an NTC spokesman, who said that they started to curse at these village elders and said you are rats, go back to the rats. In other words, the members of the NTC.

So the spokesman we spoke to this evening indicated that negotiations are off, that they are probably going to go ahead with some sort of military offensive against the pro-Gadhafi forces in Bani Walid. This despite the fact that according to NTC sources, they believe that the vast majority of the inhabitants of Bani Walid are now on the side of the rebels and want these pro-Gadhafi elements to leave the town as soon as possible - - Max.

FOSTER: Ben, try to bring us up to date on this convoy that went into Niger.

First of all, who was in that convoy?

And where are we getting the information from on who was it in and this rumor that Gadhafi may have been in it, but actually wasn't?

WEDEMAN: No, that rumor has been quashed, even by the US State Department. Apparently, an American diplomat in Niamey, the capital of Niger, has met with government officials there, warning them that they should arrest some of the members of this convoy because they're on the UN travel ban list.

Precisely who's among the passengers on the convoy, whether it's really 200 and -- or 250 cars in each is not altogether clear.

One of the names that's been talked about is Mansour Dhao. He was a senior military officer apparently responsible for the personal security of Moammar Gadhafi, which may be one of the reasons why there was initial speculation that the Libyan leader might be on that -- in that convoy but, apparently, that is not true.

And of course, we did hear from Moussa Ibrahim, the spokesman for the Gadhafi government, who told a Damascus-based pro-Libyan television station that Moammar Gadhafi is in excellent health inside Libya, but nobody knows where, and is planning to fight back. Max?

FOSTER: And Ben, we're just hearing from Reuters that Burkina Faso is saying that they haven't had an exile request from Colonel Gadhafi, but is Gadhafi running out of options on where he could potentially go?

WEDEMAN: Well, certainly his options have narrowed dramatically. He's not in Bani Walid by all accounts. He could be in Sirte on the coast, that's his hometown, or Sabha in the southern part of the country.

But let's not forget, Libya is a huge country, and he does have the resources to run around in the desert for quite some time. It's beginning to look a bit like the beginning of the search for Saddam Hussein. Max?

FOSTER: OK, Ben Wedeman, thank you very much, indeed, for your update. Some important developments out of Libya today, then. Let's get some perspective, now, from Guma el-Gamaty. He's the National Transitional Council's coordinator here in the UK. Thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.

What's your idea about where Colonel Gadhafi is? I know it's guesswork at the moment, but what's your best guess?

GUMA EL-GAMATY, UK COORDINATOR, NATIONAL TRANSITIONAL COUNCIL: My best guess is that he's somewhere in Libya, somewhere in the south in the Sabha region, probably hiding. He probably has many, many hideouts in those areas, which he knows very well. He grew up in those -- in that region, by the way.

FOSTER: And he's got a lot of support, still, hasn't he? I know in some areas that the -- the civilians don't get all the information that they perhaps should and they're not sure that the whole country's effectively dominated by the NTC now.

Are you concerned that by going into areas like Bank Walid you're going to get civilians caught up in the crossfire, because they're confused about what's going on?

GAMATY: I wouldn't call it lots of support he still has. He's still got a few remnants of a few hundreds of armed men who are still portraying themselves as loyal to him --

FOSTER: And some civilians are still loyal to him, aren't they?

GAMATY: Maybe, but those are in Bani Walid and Sirte, mainly. And in Bani Walid, the issue is that we don't want any bloodshed, we don't want any more Libyan people lost through the fighting, and that's why the people who are surrounding the city, who are actually from the same town as well, the freedom fighters, are negotiating with their own people --

(CROSSTALK)

FOSTER: But they're not --

GAMATY: -- inside the city.

FOSTER: -- the talks have broken down, haven't they, with the elders in the town?

GAMATY: They have. They have because those couple of hundred people with their guns and with the weapons are still holding out and preventing the elderly and the main civilians of the city to join the revolution.

FOSTER: But what's the option, then? Is it a siege?

GAMATY: The option is to give -- I wouldn't say the promise -- to give peaceful negotiations a chance, maybe a couple more days. And then, if need be, the freedom fighters will go in and --

FOSTER: They go in.

GAMATY: -- and talk -- take those --

FOSTER: It's a big risk, if so many civilians do get caught in the crossfire, if there are more civilians in there than you're aware of.

GAMATY: Well, look. You know, Tripoli was the major capital where Gadhafi's power and strength was, and yet it was overrun by the freedom fighters in a few hours. So I can assure you, Bani Walid is nothing compared to Tripoli.

FOSTER: So why hold off?

GAMATY: It -- well, we didn't -- we don't even want to have one -- one person killed. These are people who are going to be attacked by their own people, so we don't want them killing each other. That does not going to look good for the future, so that's why we will hold out until the last resort.

And then, if need be, those couple of hundred people or so would be overrun, I can assure you, they can be overrun in an hour or so.

FOSTER: And then on to Sirte.

GAMATY: And then on to Sirte, yes.

FOSTER: And that's -- so when do you think all of this will be tied up? When will you have control of the whole country?

GAMATY: Oh, a week, two weeks maximum, I would say. And at the same time, the hunt for Gadhafi continues as well. And he -- his options are becoming very, very narrow.

If he goes to any country, neighboring country, like Algeria, Niger, Chad, Burkina Faso, Mali, these countries will understand very well that they will be under extreme pressure from both the Libyan people and from the international community to hand back Gadhafi and his sons and his aids, because these are men wanted for crimes against humanity.

FOSTER: How are you dealing with that? For example, these pro- Gadhafi forces that we think have ended up in Niger, your relations with Niger will be severely affected by that. How are you dealing with those diplomatic problems, crises, effectively, you're having, particularly if Gadhafi gets into one of those countries?

GAMATY: In time, Niger and any other neighboring country will understand very well and very clearly that their interest is --

FOSTER: They don't seem to understand now, though, do they?

GAMATY: Yes. Well, it's difficult now if somebody just drifts across the border. But in time, they need to apprehend them and hand them back. And if they want a good relationship with Libya, because look, there's no way back.

Gadhafi's finished, his regime is finished, toppled. If they want -- if they want to think about the future and their own interests for the future, they need to be on the good side of Libya and the Libyan people. That means they have to apprehend and hand back these war criminals. It's as simple as that.

FOSTER: Until Gadhafi is caught in some way, the -- all the rebels have this common goal, haven't they, in overthrowing Gadhafi, getting rid of Gadhafi? What happens after that, though?

Are the cracks beginning to emerge within the NTC, within the rebel groups? It's inevitable, isn't it, that people will disagree on the future after Gadhafi? How are you dealing with that? I'm sure the cracks are emerging already, aren't they?

GAMATY: Well, the media loves to talk about cracks and disagreements --

FOSTER: There's always cracks in politics.

GAMATY: Yes, because that's what makes your job interesting, isn't it? Well, we're sorry to disappoint you that there is -- there's not going to be any major divisions. If there are any differences of agreement, that's natural.

That's what democracy is about. Democracy's about how -- having differences of view and of opinion of how to do things, but things can be sorted out through debate, and that is a source of richness, not divisions.

I can assure you, we are all agreed on Libya as one country, united, with the capital Tripoli. We want a constitution that's going to be democratic that will underpin and guarantee all the essential freedoms, and we want to move on, rebuilding our country politically, economically, socially, and development-wise as well, and make it one of the big success stories in the region.

FOSTER: Guma el-Gamaty, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us on the program.

GAMATY: Thank you, sir.

FOSTER: Before we leave Libya tonight, we want to give you a rare glimpse into a Gadhafi home in Tripoli and, more importantly, show you what's beneath it.

All of the Gadhafi compounds have been thoroughly inspected after family members fled, and this complex belongs to one of the Gadhafi sons.

Now, beneath the serene landscape is an elaborate bunker where the family could hide in case of emergency. It features decontamination showers, airtight sealed doors, and walls that can withstand a non- conventional nuclear, biological, or chemical attack.

You can learn much more about this bunker on "BackStory," immediately following CONNECT THE WORLD right here on CNN.

You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up after the break, the South Korean city shaping the future, the latest in our Gateway series, is in two minutes. We're in Incheon, where the airport is the foundation of its success.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Incheon, a city in South Korea that's become one of the main air transport hubs in east Asia. Located around 40 miles west of Seoul, it is the primary airport serving the capital area and is one of the largest in the world, not only for passengers, but cargo traffic, as well.

In the past, most airports were built to service already established cities, like London's Heathrow or JFK, New York. But Incheon's an example of an aerotropolis, where a city's developed around a global transport hub.

As part of our Gateway series, CNN visited the South Korean city to find out how it's shaping the future of urban development.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May I have your attention please? Asiana Airlines Flight 302, the estimated arrival time will be 2:30 PM.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just a decade old, Incheon International Airport has rapidly established itself as one of the world's best. The Gateway to northeast Asia.

ANDERSON (on camera): In 2010, Incheon Airport handled more than 33 million passengers, making it one of the busiest airports in the world.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Now, with a $1.7 billion project for a new terminal, they're hoping to double those numbers to 62 million people.

It's with this kind of progress that the airport hopes to reinvent itself as a destination in its own right, developing as an air city on the airport's grounds.

CW LEE, PRESIDENT AND CEO, IIAC: We have a very huge piece of land, which is about 57 million square meters of size. About 60 cities, more than one million population nearby.

ANDERSON: The airport is built on a muddy, man-made island, reclaimed from the sea with soil and rocks blasted off the neighboring mountains.

I'm crossing the Incheon Bridge linking the giant airport complex to Songdo, a sub city 15 minutes away.

ANDERSON (on camera): And this incredible feat of engineering means that those who live in Songdo are just a three and a half hour flight away from a third of the world's population.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Here, the vision of a functioning aerotropolis has started to take shape.

ANDERSON (on camera): What is an aerotropolis to you?

STAN GALE, CHAIRMAN, GALE INTERNATIONAL: An aerotropolis is really the city center itself would be the airport itself. The international airport. And then the adjacencies would be those users, peoples, business, and companies that rely on that airport.

ANDERSON: Just like at Incheon Airport, Songdo has been built on reclaimed land along the Yellow Sea. Now, the international business district is built on 1500 acres of that. It's a $35 billion project and some 40 percent, that part right in the middle there, is already complete.

ANDERSON (voice-over): The reclamation process started in the early 90s, with a view to create a new hub city for northeast Asia. The heart of the city has been built in just over six years.

GALE: The biggest challenge of all was that we had 1500 acres of brand new, raw land and we had to be sure that we put something that was not just sustainable but would be for hundreds of years into the future looked at as the new front door of Korea.

ANDERSON: The airport has functioned as the main draw for the 18,000 people who call Songdo home.

ANDERSON (on camera): And we're on our way to the 12th hole. How much golf do you play, Leo?

LEO AKKILA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, FIBOX, LTD.: I play about two times a month.

ANDERSON: Not bad.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Leo Akkila has lived in the region for over 15 years, and in 2008, he decided to move his business and his family here.

Leo is regional manager for Fibox, industrial manufacturers with centers and clients across Asia.

AKKILA: Well, you know, I'm traveling often and also in many cases they come by airplane to visit us and -- and it's now 20 minutes to airport from the office and my home.

Tokyo, Shanghai, of course, Hong Kong. I have to reach all those cities in a short period of time.

ANDERSON: The concept of an aerotropolis, while not unique, is still relatively novel. Songdo represents the archetype of a new, fast, instant city, defined by the proximity to a global transport hub.

As the dynamics of travel change, an airport city may be the answer to our ever increasing demands for speed and connectivity 24-7.

Becky Anderson, CNN, South Korea.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Coming up, one man's recollections of 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED BALLINGER, FORMER UNITED AIRLINES DISPATCHER: All I know is that there was trouble, and I wanted to warn everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: And so, he did. Now, he's haunted by what happened after that and what he could have done differently. CONNECT THE WORLD is back in just over 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This particular image for me represented the sort of deep anxiety that we felt that day upon hearing about the event and not knowing how to cope with it.

The explosion out of the head was the feeling that we had when we saw the images on TV, like our own head was exploding, and we couldn't believe the reality of what we were seeing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: An artist's impression, there, of the pain felt after 9/11. CNN.com has commissioned original artwork as we lead up to the 10th anniversary of the terrorist attacks. All this week here on CNN, we'll be showing you some of those pieces.

The world is a very different place since 9/11. CNN has been speaking to survivors or to viewers across the world to find out how you think America's image has changed. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the first time, I really didn't like how the United States faced that attack because like I said before, the Muslims were discriminated, and I think that wasn't fair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still need America to be around in the economic and in security terms. I really don't know what it can do, because it is stuck in a very difficult position of protecting itself and its interests and -- if they can't defend their own interests, a lot of people in the world will be in trouble.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The US has tightened their policy. Foreigners entering that country and -- like I was detained when I was at the airport. But I think the world has paid great attention to fighting back with the terrorism, and I guess that is a good change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, you may remember the headline in the French Newspaper, "Le Monde," after September the 11th, and that was "We are all Americans." And it summed up the outpouring of support for the United States from almost every corner of the world.

But what's happened to that goodwill in the decade since? Jill Dougherty tells us how things have changed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the first days and months after 9/11, much of the world was on America's side. But that sympathy soon began to fade.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people, and to defend the world from grave danger.

(GUNFIRE)

ANDREW KOHUT, PEW RESEARCH CENTER: With the invasion of Iraq, we saw the image of the United States plummet all around the world.

DOUGHERTY: Surveys taken by the Pew Research Center in the Muslim world showed growing concern that the war on terrorism was really a war on Islam. Even today, that suspicion lingers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since September 11th, Afghanistan was invade, Iraq, and lots of, actually, pressure happened to the Arab world and generally the Muslim world.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've come here to Cairo to seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world. One based on mutual interest and mutual respect.

DOUGHERTY: President Obama reached out directly to the Muslim world.

KOHUT: His approval -- initial approval ratings in 2009 were extremely high. The image of the United States was repaired.

DOUGHERTY: Two weeks after President Obama's Cairo speech, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton asked Farah Pandith to serve as US Special Representative to Muslim Communities, and she's visited more than 50 countries, creating links with Muslims through education, science and technology, and entrepreneurship.

She says ten years later, the shadow of 9/11 affects even young Muslims.

FARAH PANDITH, US STATE DEPARTMENT: What they are trying to do is trying to say, "I don't want al Qaeda to define me. I don't want anybody else to define me. The images that you see on the front page of your paper aren't who I am."

DOUGHERTY (on camera): So, if you were to put your finger on the pulse right now, where are we in terms of the United States? Love us, hate us, what is it?

KOHUT: Well, the United States is well-regarded once again by its allies. It's well-regarded in -- in Japan, it's well-regarded in India. But in the Muslim world, we continue to have problems.

DOUGHERTY (voice-over): Efforts to improve the US image can do some good, Kohut says, but --

KOHUT: In the end, it's policies and the big notions that people have about America -- how America conducts itself that shape its image.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the Obama administration, I thought things would change, but I have yet to see evidence of that.

DOUGHERTY (on camera): It appears the president has his work cut out for him. One thing that did change was the image of Osama bin Laden and terrorists like him.

Right after the invasion of Iraq, some did support him for sticking a finger in the eye of the United States. But then, terrorist attacks began claiming more and more Muslim lives. Support for extremism diminished, and by the time Osama bin Laden was killed, he was largely discredited in the Muslim world.

Jill Dougherty, CNN, the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Well, United Airlines dispatcher Ed Ballinger is still haunted by that fateful day. Just four minutes before the hijackers took control, he tried to warn United Airlines Flight 93 of cockpit intruders. Drew Griffin has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDNET (voice-over): For six years, Ed Ballinger has been sailing away from his memories. His refuge, this boat named The Great Old Broad. He's been afloat with his wife, trying to escape the memory of a few brief words. "Beware cockpit intrusion."

BALLINGER: Should I have said "lock the console door"? Should I have said "Hijacking alert, hijacking"? Should I have said "A possible hijacking"?

GRIFFIN: Ballinger is footnote 69. Ten years ago on September 11th, he was a dispatcher for United Airlines in Chicago handling 16 flights leaving the east coast and heading west, including United's Flight 175 out of Boston and 93 from Newark.

BALLINGER: All I know is that there was trouble and I wanted to warn everybody.

GRIFFIN: One of those flights Ballinger tried to warn by the airline's version of an e-mail, United Flight 93.

BALLINGER: And I was sending out messages one after the other. I think I sent 122 messages in a short time, an hour or two, I don't know what it was. They're like screaming on the keyboard. And at that time, these huge TVs that we have came on with CNN.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: This just in, you are looking at, obviously, a very disturbing live shot, there. That is the World Trade Center, and we have --

BALLINGER: And I saw the second airplane, which I didn't know at the time was my airplane, 175, hit the second tower.

And I thought the most succinct method of doing it with the least amount of words was "Beware cockpit intrusion." And I sent it to all my 16 flights.

And before I got that one off, 93 called up and said they had some a little turbulence going off in their flying.

GRIFFIN (on camera): So, at that moment, 93 was routine.

BALLINGER: It was -- yes, routine.

GRIFFIN: So, you send out your note and you know they got that.

BALLINGER: Yes, because they came back, "Hey Ed, confirm." I confirmed back with him by telling him two airplanes at the World Trade Center, which I sent to all the other flights.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): But the confirmation came too late. Investigators say two minutes after Flight 93's pilot, Jason Dahl, requested clarification, hijackers stormed his cockpit.

BALLINGER: Does "beware cockpit intrusion" say it all? Can you say it faster, quicker? And I wanted to quickly get the message out.

GRIFFIN (on camera): It's ten years later. You're still thinking that.

BALLINGER: Yes. Yes. Maybe I should have wrote a dissertation on the thing and sent it to everybody. But I just sent them the quickest, fastest I could. I could ask you, how would you do it faster? But I keep asking myself that question.

GRIFFIN: Isn't that the real reason you're out on this boat?

BALLINGER: It could be. Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Do join us on Wednesday when we take a closer look at the people who became literal and figurative footnotes to the 9/11 terror attacks. They were the ones who went to work as they always did and became part of history.

It's a CNN documentary, "Footnotes to 9/11," that's Wednesday morning at 10:00 in Hong Kong, 10:00 PM east -- 10:00 PM Eastern on Tuesday for viewers in the Americas.

I'm Max Foster. Thank you very much for watching. The world headlines and "BackStory" will follow this short break. We leave you, though, with some powerful images of Ground Zero since 9/11.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END