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What Caused Amy Winehouse`s Death?; Cindy Anthony Reveals Surprising Details
Aired September 12, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go. We may finally know what happened to beloved singer Amy Winehouse. Her family has a theory for her death.
Plus, Casey Anthony`s parents should we believe what they`re telling us now? Cindy reveals some surprises about the smell in Casey`s car.
And later, the mother of a murdered Yale student is here. Her daughter was murdered on campus. What can we learn from her that will protect our kids? Let`s get started.
Tonight, Amy Winehouse`s parents speak out about her tragic and sudden death. Watch this and then we`ll talk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amy Winehouse. The singer was found dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Friends say Amy Winehouse`s death followed a binge of ecstasy pills and alcohol.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A tragedy, 27 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don`t know how the Grammy award winning singer died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had at least had two confirmed stints in rehab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A rehab stint just this year apparently didn`t take.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was arrested five times over the course of the last five years of her life for drug related charges, for getting into fights and assaults.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sick of the abuse and addiction.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She just put is all together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Desperately in need of her, her mother told a newspaper she thought it was a matter of time before her daughter died. Her father had already written her eulogy.
PINSKY: Tonight, the British soul singer`s parents tell Anderson Cooper a seizure, allegedly cause by alcohol withdrawal killed Amy.
Listen to this from one of our brother Anderson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITCH WINEHOUSE, AMY WINEHOUSE`S FATHER: She had a series of seizures previously. One of them, she was on Skype to a friend that lives here in Manhattan. He phoned me middle of the night and said I have seen Amy have a seizure. I then got in touch with Andrew, he went to her room, she had a seizure, and he dealt with it then. So what happened to Amy could have happen from months before. She had a series of seizures brought on by this, by this binge, binge drinking and then stopping to drink.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: No disrespect to her family, or to the memory of Amy, but the story is not accurate. It doesn`t add up to me. Listen, as you heard, she had a series of seizures. People don`t die from alcohol withdrawal seizures. They just don`t. I mean they can, but they really - I have seen 500 or 600 alcohol seizures, we deal with them all the time, we kind a stand back, we keep on saying. But they don`t die of the seizure.
They die of DTs, from which seizure can be a part of and you can have alcohol withdrawal and die at home. But Amy in her system had the drug Librium, which is a medicine for alcohol withdrawal. It`s Benzodiazepines (ph). Her dad said she was taking it daily.
Now, using the word sober to describe Amy taking alcohol and benzodiazepines is not OK. That is not accurate. The medication used to ease withdrawals for alcohol is only used for ten days maximum. So what doctor had her taking that drug every day, and why, and was she really supervised by a physician, and why weren`t they taking proper care of her. And by the way, they allege of that drug is a seizure medicine, it is really not a seizure medicine. In fact, it causes seizures particularly when put with alcohol. And if they try to stop it, that`s a great recipe for seizure.
Let`s tell you what Librium is related to. It`s related to Xanax, Ativan. That`s right Ativan is the same drug that killed Michael Jackson. Remember that drug? With this book of all, the Ativan, Librium, same, very close relative. Now again, it wouldn`t surprise me if Amy had a seizure because she was taking Librium daily. But again, that should have not killed her. It can, but shouldn`t have.
Joining me now, to discuss this actress and recovering addict Mackenzie Phillips, celebrity rehab star and also recovering addict Jennifer Giminez, also from celeb rehab resident tech Shelly Sprague and executive director from radar online Maxine Page.
Maxine, can you give us the latest?
MAXINE PAGE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, RADARONLINE.COM: The latest as you`ve said, Mitch has been doing the rounds, Amy`s father, and talking about her death. And I mean it is bizarre. He is talking about her being sober, but just one month before she died she was booed off stage on a performance when she was completely drunk. I mean, she was staggering, she fell over, she was slurring. She couldn`t sing because she was obviously still drinking heavily. I mean, in England, there`s a different attitude.
PINSKY: I think that`s unfortunate what this family is falling victim to which is this attitude in England that somehow alcohol is not so bad, not that big a deal. Beside, alcohol kills more people than any other drug. Shelly, can you back me up?
SHELLY SPRAGUE, VH1`S CELEBRITY REHAB: Alcohol has the most poisonous drug, the most dangerous drug and it is absolutely something, especially mixed with Librium, can be a deadly combination.
PINSKY: Mack, do you agree?
MACKENZIE PHILLIPS, ACTRESS, FMR. ADDICT: Absolutely. You know what I`m thinking about, if she had a bottle of Librium alone in her bedroom, that`s not the way you would treat someone. Because you know, you left me alone in rehab in early recovery with a bottle of Librium I would be taking it for the symptoms that I was feeling of disease.
PINSKY: That`s right.
PHILLIPS: And so, why wasn`t she in a safe place being monitored, handed the medication? Someone else holding it? You know, that`s a recipe for disaster for someone like Amy.
PINSKY: So, you know for people at home, what we are saying is the combination of alcohol and Librium is very serious, one of the more common combinations Shelly, we see all the time. We had some, along this line happen on celebrity rehab, when singer Mindy McCready had a major seizure while trying to get through her sobriety. Look at this footage from VH1.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When do you think there was a time in your life you drank the most? That`s easy. Because -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ha-ha-ha! She`s dead! Somebody cued Mindy. Mindy? Mindy, are you faking it? She is not faking this. She`s having a seizure.
(END VIDEO CIP)
PINSKY: Yes. Mack is having a - are you OK?
PHILLIPS: Yes. I really thought she was joking around. Scared the crap out of me.
PINSKY: You came around fast and helped her. Then again, I want to point out people don`t typically, alcohol seizures don`t die. You heard from her father, she had a series of seizures and people attended her, kept her comfortable. Now, you know, as in this case, the seizures get attended to, and then people get back into their program, their medications are adjusted, they don`t die of this.
So what do you think the family is trying to do here by alleging that she was sober the entire time?
JENNIFER GIMINEZ, FMR. ADDICT: I don`t know. I feel like there`s like this saying, a lot of people say ignorance is bliss. And I feel with all of the awareness that being shown today about alcohol and drug addiction, that yet they`re still in denial, you know. And alcoholism will kill you, you know, and the fact you won`t see it as a disease, then you have to deal with something tragic like Amy Winehouse died.
PINSKY: Maxine, you shake your head bigger.
SPRAGUE: Yes. No. I agree totally. I was going to say, its denial. It`s total denial. But I mean, it is crazy because as soon as I heard she died, my first thought was drug overdose. And then when the toxicology came out, I was absolutely amazed. I was astounded.
PHILLIPS: But they said there were no illegal drugs.
PHILLIPS: And that immediately set off -
PINSKY: This is the thing that I think that we`re trying to dispel. Again, not trying to disparage a memory of an important artist, somebody everybody loved or to disrespect the family, but the fact is this was addiction death, period end of story. Whether it`s in withdrawal, whether because she combined dangerous things, whatever it is, addiction death, period, end of story. And to try to gloss it with explanations for why it was OK misses the point completely, and unfortunately maintains a misperception, and even perhaps a bias against the disease which everyone in this panel knows kills people on a routine basis. Shelly?
SPRAGUE: Well, I think also the mismanagement of this particular case. She needed to be obviously treated on a higher level of care, and she wasn`t able to get that treatment obviously for whatever reason. And I want to put that, you know, it`s dangerous to withdraw from alcohol, it`s dangerous to withdraw from benzodiazepines. It is dangerous to be doing it in your bedroom.
PINSKY: That`s exactly right. So, if you were going to design a program for Amy Winehouse, Shelly, how long would it be probably?
SPRAGUE: No shorter than six, probably upwards of a year.
PINSKY: That`s would be 12 months would be mine. And a month of intensive work and particularly to get her through the biological problem which as we know, is potentially dangerous. I want you to look at this video. Now, it is rather disturbing. And we want you to understand, this is we are looking at this to remind ourselves just how serious her addiction is. And in a way, this video is sort of hurting back to the Anna Nicole clown video. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my god.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daddy, daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here comes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be very careful. Right? She loves you ever so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You know, I watch that video, and my heart begins to break, that`s mostly. That makes you sadder?
PHILLIPS: That makes me so sad. I can see her fingernails are dirty, and when you see something like that, you know there`s something wrong because we take care of ourselves.
GIMINEZ: You can see her eyes are gone. There`s no spirit. It is tragic. It such a sad loss.
PINSKY: Shelly, last words?
SPRAGUE: You know, it is such a tragic disease and so many people are dying every day of this disease, and I just hope that people try to get education and treatment.
PINSKY: Yes. Let this not have been in vain. Coming up next, we are doing more on Amy Winehouse`s final days. Was she not taking hard drugs or is there evidence maybe that is inaccurate? Check out this you tube video of one of her final performances. It may suggest otherwise. Stay with us.
(MUSIC VIDEO PLAYING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WINEHOUSE: If she had died four years ago, we would have held our hands up at that point and said fair enough because she was very ill. She was taking an inordinate amount of drugs. And it was a struggle to keep her going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was from Warner Brothers, Anderson. Welcome back. We are talking about Amy Winehouse`s parents who are speaking out about her tragic death. And her father says he believes she died possibly from a seizure from alcohol withdrawal. I say that`s not very likely. And he also said she was sober, but happened to be on alcohol and pills, benzodiazepines pills like Xanax and Ativan, are related to that Librium.
Oh boy. You know Mackenzie, from that clip four years ago, wouldn`t be surprised she died given the piece of video from awhile ago?
PHILLIPS: I wasn`t surprised when she died. The morning I read about it, never been a big fan of Amy Winehouse`s music, never knew much about her. Just saw the train wreck, and when I read it on the phone, I burst into tears. I just burst into tears, another one down. You know, so I wasn`t wouldn`t have been a surprise four years ago, I certainly wasn`t surprised two months ago.
PINSKY: And let me say this, when Shelly, when our patients die these days, what would you say the number one class of medication? I already spilled the tip of my hand, prescription medication almost without exception involved.
SPRAGUE: Without exception, prescription medication is an epidemic. We have to stand up against it.
PINSKY: So, Maxine, what is it about the U.K. they can`t get their head around the fact alcohol is dangerous?
PAGE: I don`t know. I was talking to Shelly during the break. In England, unless you`re lying on the street homeless, with absolutely nothing choking on your vomit, you`re not an alcoholic. You know, it`s a culture you go out during workweek. You go out lunch time. You drink. You got off to work every night.
PINSKY: But even the guy on the street is disdained or just looked at. That`s Joe the drunk. That`s how he lives my life. Not somebody that`s going to die, we have to take seriously and treat.
SPRAGUE: People don`t take it seriously. I don`t know if it is the same here. But I know when I was a child growing up, there was a speech giving all the mothers valium.
PINSKY: Well, does the benzodiazepines are back with a vengeance, usually combined with the opiates. That`s what kills the patients today, almost without exception. When Amy`s dad tells Anderson Amy was, I think he used the word clean or sober for the last three years of her life, that`s from hard drug but she cross addicted to other stuff. But listen to this from Warner Brothers Anderson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WINEHOUSE: I been banging on about the fact she hadn`t taken drugs three years. Everyone thought I was in denial. I wasn`t in denial. She hadn`t taken drugs. She has been clear of drugs three years.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: So, the problem was alcohol in the last years of her life?
WINEHOUSE: The problem was alcohol the last few years of her life.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, just alcohol, just alcohol. Oh God. Well, all my patients died of alcoholism, I guess, I don`t know. Jennifer, do you agree with what the father was saying?
GIMINEZ: No, I don`t agree, it gets me so angry. It was just alcohol, like she wasn`t doing hard drugs. I was a cocaine addict. So if I`m shooting heroin, does that make me - is that OK? Where is it OK? Like, I just wish people would understand that any alcohol is a drug, period. And it`s so frustrating to see because there are so many people today that will take prescription drugs and drink and say it is just a drink.
PINSKY: Does anybody think that because she was a celebrity and a performer that that significantly impacted on the course of her condition?
PHILLIPS: I think absolutely. I think people make excuses. People protect the income streams.
PINSKY: It is enabling.
PHILLIPS: And also, people like Amy, I mean you have to look at her, understand people were probably frightened of her. People in her life were probably frightened, upsetting her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was provider.
PINSKY: They are fearful of losing access to her. Of course, things that I think Shelly you will agree gives a sort of amusement, people are fearful of triggering righteous in dig nation by bringing attention to the fact they have an illness.
SPRAGUE: Yes. When you`re met with you know screaming and yelling, I don`t think she was any stranger to acting out what I understand. You know she`s a very talented, talented woman, but when you are, you know, bullying everyone around you to protect your addiction, which I see every day, I confront the addiction, and what do I get? I get met with hostility, anger, rage.
PHILLIPS: Which we`ve all seen if you`ve experienced in rehab.
PINSKY: But you absorb that for the individual, on behalf of the individual suffering from this. Maxine, what sort of behavior in Amy`s final days may show she was perhaps still using illicit substances?
PAGE: Well, like I said, it was a month before, but when she performed and she was obviously on something, that`s no doubting that. I mean, she actually at one point was toward the end of her death, she was keeping out of the public eye, cancelled her concerts. She was spotted out and about and she looked disheveled. She was not looking after herself. I mean, it is just crazy to me. I don`t want to blame her father. But it is crazy to me, that she obviously had parents that loved her very, very much, and it is crazy to me they didn`t do something about it, take her and put her in care.
PINSKY: Bu again, is that a function of the culture over there? Is it not as apt to send someone to treatment?
PAGE: It is not. Still, if you`re a parent and aware your child is doing something, I mean Britney Spears` father, when it wasn`t obviously alcohol but he put her in conservative ship.
PINSKY: That was, she`s alive today because of action that the parents took. Bu again, that`s our culture here. We don`t see it as a shaping thing.
SPRAGUE: Very different culture in England. It is extremely different when it comes to those kinds of topic and as well as you know if somebody doesn`t want help Drew, they don`t want help. Nothing you can do.
PINSKY: Is she different than any other addict who just defy? We make a lot of it because it is Amy and because we all feel the loss here and seeing her family now go out and talk about this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very sad.
PINSKY: But thank God you`re part of the solution and here to talk about it. But I could have been like Amy.
PHILLIPS: I was like Amy at one point, resistant to treatment, you know with the world breaks you down you got to say OK, I surrender. I give it up to you.
GIMINEZ: She was still running the show. There was no white flag of surrender.
PINSKY: Shelly, last words?
SPRAGUE: I think it is important for everyone to understand that addiction kills people.
PINSKY: And it doesn`t matter whether alcohol or pills or something your doctor prescribed or heroin, each has a different culture, each have different histories, natural histories, they progress in different ways, but all end up killing people the same.
By the way, thank you everybody, thank you to the panel.
Up next, George and Cindy Anthony break their silence. What did they know about the death of their grand daughter? Are they protecting Casey? And the death of a bride to be on the Yale campus, who is to blame? The mother of the victim says the university. I will ask her why. That`s ahead. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you now believe the smell was from?
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Truthfully, to this day, I don`t know, to be honest.
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Do I want to believe Caylee was back there, I don`t want to believe it. But, I`m going by what investigators have told me. All I know is Caylee is not with us any more. I know that. I know that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe she was in that trunk?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: George and Cindy Anthony finally break their silence in an interview with Doctor Phil about their daughter Casey, the disappearance of their granddaughter Caylee, and the trial. We will have more from that interview later.
But first, what do you want to know about what Casey`s parents actually knew? What do you think they need to come clean about? We posted this question on the Web site today. Do you think that George and Cindy Anthony will be truthful in their upcoming interview? Here are the results.
Only three percent of you said yes! Seventy five percent of you said no. Twenty one percent of you said they`ll be somewhat truthful, and just one percent of you said you`re undecided. This is not a case where people are afraid to ring in with their opinion. Let`s hear more what you think? I have Victoria from California. Go ahead.
VICTORIA, CALLER, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Doctor Drew. I think their denial is so deep, I don`t expect to hear anything that I haven`t heard before. I would be surprised if they even let their wall down for a moment. And I think their only culpability is putting up with her lies, which made them blind to her behaviors because who wants to admit their daughter is a monster.
PINSKY: Yes. You`re absolutely right. And so their denial is motivated on multiple fronts. One, it is very painful to realize your daughter is sick or a monster. Number two, they`re trying to hold their lives together. And number three, maybe they could have done more, and if they really started looking at the realities of what went on there, I imagine it would be terribly painful. It is less painful to stay in denial, not better.
OK, Ann in Oklahoma. Go ahead.
ANN, CALLER, OKLAHOMA: I think if I had them in front of me I would ask George and Cindy if they realize they enabled Casey`s bad behavior. It is very obvious how they interact with her.
PINSKY: Well, and I think we all would agree with you. And again, whether it is explicitly enabling or just that they didn`t do their job of parenting an adult child which was clearly impaired. Hmm, they may have culpability beyond what we all are thinking about. And then of course, there`s Cindy and her lying in the courtroom. I`m just saying.
Amy in Pennsylvania, you`re up next. Go ahead.
AMY, CALLER, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Doctor Drew. I would like to say that honestly George and Cindy would be better off letting this heat, letting the heat fade away. There isn`t anything they can say that justifies how we found Caylee. We have seen them all lie on the stand, under oath. Are we supposed to believe them?
I absolutely agree with you, that it is at the point now where regardless of what the explanations are, we`ve all sort of had it with certainly with Casey, and to have been a part of defending her in any way, I don`t think people have much patience for that.
Up next, it has been two months since Casey Anthony walked away from murder charges, even after she admitted she lied to police about her daughter Caylee`s whereabouts. The parents as we said are speaking out about the entire ordeal. We`re going to get a little deeper into what they were saying, what that interview might have revealed when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Deja vu all over again. Well, finally, George and Cindy Anthony are speaking about their daughter, Casey, their granddaughter, Caylee, and the trial that put them, shall we say, in the public eye. That`s an understatement. The Anthonys spoke to Dr. Phil in an interview to air on his show tomorrow. Here`s a clip where they talk about the stench coming from Casey Anthony`s trunk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PHIL, HOST: What do you now believe the smell was from?
CINDY ANTHONY: Truthfully, to this day, I don`t know, to be honest.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Do I want to believe that Caylee was back there, I don`t want to believe it. I mean, I`m going by what investigators have told me. All I know is that Caylee is not with us any more. I know that. I know that.
DR. PHIL: Do you believe she was in that trunk?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me now is criminal defense attorney, Mark Eiglarsh. Mark, listening to the couple for first time after the trial, do you think they know or didn`t they know that something fishy was going on?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, of course, Dr. Drew. I`m not a parent of a suspect for murder, and I don`t know how I would act under those circumstances. Thank God, I`m not. But, clearly, they knew there was a dead body in that car. There was no doubt. Obviously, once it became clear that the daughter was facing the death penalty, either consciously or subconsciously, something happened to their psychology.
PINSKY: Yes. They seemed to suddenly -- I remember there was a perjury claim against Cindy, so her voracity is somewhat in question. But, Mark, let me just get this straight. You`re not the parent of a murderer suspect, that`s true?
EIGLARSH: Not yet, Drew, but we spend a lot of time with our kids trying to prevent that. Yes.
PINSKY: In the interview with Dr. Phil, the Anthonys claim that Casey may have had a seizure while Caylee was swimming and then drowned, so perhaps, she couldn`t have saved her daughter. They also say that the seizure disorder prevented her from sorting fact from fiction and is the reason she perpetually lied. Now, they were asked that the day the 911 calls were made, she`s being cuffed in the driveway when she`s in the home.
She knows that Caylee is gone, and Cindy replies to this was simply, yes. Then, Dr. Phil continues and he says, and she continued to lie, and George responds she continued to lie.
Mark, this theory that she had some sort of organic brain syndrome, I want you to know that I have had many of my colleague experts e-mail me and send me documentation of similar cases of people with generalized seizure disorders, with various sorts of frontal lobe and temporal lobe dysfunctions, and even those with fictitious disorders, fictitious seizure disorders that have this sort of chronic lying where they seem to not be able to tell fact from fiction.
Even though that`s a possibility or possible explanation here, my first question to you is, isn`t this just another excuse for Casey?
EIGLARSH: I would say yes. I also would say really, who cares at this point. I mean, I really feel that way. In other words, they`re free to offer what they want. I don`t wish them ill will at all. I met Cindy on the street. She seemed like a nice gal who, obviously, didn`t ask for all of this to happen, but at this point, the best reason why she would lie is because she somehow, whether it`d be an accident or intentionally, had something to do with her daughter`s tragic death.
So, to suggest that there`s some abnormality to me means nothing, but ultimately, she had something to do with it, however, you want to look at these facts. That`s the reason for the lies.
PINSKY: Yes. I agree with you, Mark. My question is sort of twofold. If, indeed, there was a neuropsychobiological problem that was bona fide, why didn`t the defense dig into that a little bit or why didn`t we have some -- remember, the psychiatrist that saw her and said there was no evidence of any of this stuff, maybe a little -- we heard a little bit of sort of narcissistic personality disorder, but nothing else from the psychiatrist who evaluated her. That`s number one.
And then number two, if Casey`s (ph) knew she was this impaired, why did they let her take care of her kid?
EIGLARSH: OK. So, the first problem is that the truth didn`t really play a role in the defense all that much. The goal, I know it makes you sick to hear about it, was to --
PINSKY: I -- Mark, I just remembered the feeling from covering this case and talking to you. Here it is again. Nausea. Awesome.
EIGLARSH: I got you. All right. But again, the defense`s job was to somehow come up with a scenario, either based on the truth or very loosely based on the truth or possibly manufactured to walk their client out the door. That was their job. To suggest to the jury that the lies were become some of abnormality, I don`t know if that`s going to pass the smell test with anybody.
So, why put it up there? It was much easier for them to point the finger at dad and make all of these outrageous claims.
PINSKY: Right. And then, finally, tell me why we don`t hold the Anthonys more accountable for what happened if they were aware their daughter had a brain disorder.
EIGLARSH: Well, the prosecutors used their discretion in not charging her with perjury, even though she clearly did on the stand regarding the computer searches. You know, to know something isn`t a crime. To say something that`s different than the truth under oath is perjury. And again, they made their position clear that`s not something they wanted to go forward on.
PINSKY: Now, there were allegations brought up during the trial specifically that George was having an affair, and he told his girlfriend, apparently, the same girlfriend that he knew that Caylee was, in fact, dead. Dr. Phil asked Cindy what she thought about the defense accusing George of helping Casey dispose of Caylee`s body, and if she thought he might be lying, too. Cindy says when asked no, not when it came to his family.
As far as Casey and Caylee, George would never have put us through those six months of not knowing where Caylee was if he knew where Caylee was, because I watched his heartbreak every single day, and I watched him as frantic as he was. Mark, now this seems like, you know, an honest answer and a reasonable take on this, but once again, is Cindy just not dealing, and is she doing everything she can to protect her little world from falling apart still?
EIGLARSH: You know, for this one answer, I saw the same thing that she did. I could not believe that George would sit back, assuming this was a tragic accident like they alleged, let his daughter face potentially the ultimate sanction death, pretend to the world that somehow he didn`t know where his granddaughter was. So, I never bought that. I do believe in what Cindy was saying.
PINSKY: Now, Cindy also was asked about something she wrote on her MySpace page almost two weeks before Casey reported Caylee missing. Here`s what she wrote. "Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankful for all the love and support given to her." Now, in the interview, Cindy says, "Caylee was missing in my heart that day. She wasn`t missing physically in the sense because I thought I knew where she was."
"I wanted Casey to know how much she was hurting me. I thought she was purposely keeping Caylee away from me." Mark, knowing that Casey was mentally impaired as they claim, shouldn`t they have tried to, perhaps, gain custody of Caylee or, at least, been more vigilant of Casey`s parenting?
EIGLARSH: The direct answer is yes, if they knew the extent to which she was not parenting properly, yes. Something tells me during that time period there was one person who ran the show, and that was Casey. And she went gone, here and there, and nobody knew where she was, what she was doing, and ultimately, look what happened.
PINSKY: You know, Mark, that is actually a very astute statement. I mean, let`s just sort of stand back --
EIGLARSH: Really? I made one?
PINSKY: You did make one. And by the way, thanks for the Pepto- Bismol.
PINSKY: I`m feeling better now. But it is -- let`s put any of us in the circumstance of an adult child out of control, how do you get control over that, and you certainly can`t do it alone. You have free (ph) child, get help from caretakers, social services, physicians or what not, and they didn`t make that move, and now there`s a dead child. Thanks, Mark. Always a pleasure.
EIGLARSH: Take care.
PINSKY: OK. Up next, a Yale student who was murdered at Yale campus. And tonight, her family says the university is culpable for her death. I`ll to the victim`s mother in an exclusive primetime interview when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHEF JAMES LEWIS, NEW HAVEN POLICE DEPT.: This is not about urban crime, it`s not about university crime, it`s not about domestic crime, but an issue of workplace violence which has become a growing concern around the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back. Annie Le was a beautiful bride-to-be, but on the day she should have wed, she was discovered stuffed in the wall of a Yale University Research lab. Tonight, her grieving family says Yale University is responsible for her murder. They`re taking legal action against the school. Her mother is here in an exclusive primetime interview to tell us why. Watch this.
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PINSKY (voice-over): Twenty-four-year-old Annie Le was a bright and busy student at Yale University, pursuing both a doctoral degree and planning a September 2009 wedding, but just five days before her special event, Annie vanished. FBI and police scoured the campus and discovered her body, badly beaten, strangled, and stuffed in the wall of a Yale research lab basement.
Investors moved quickly and arrested Raymond Clark, a 26-year-old Yale lab technician. He pleaded guilty to Annie`s murder, and although, he`s serving a 44-year prison sentence, Annie`s family says Yale is also culpable for their daughter`s death.
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PINSKY (on-camera): And we welcome tonight Annie Le`s mom, Vivian. Mary Nguyen is the attorney representing the Le Family in their wrongful death suit against Yale University. Now, Vivian, tomorrow would have been your daughter`s two-year wedding anniversary. What do you want people to know about her?
VIVIAN LE, DAUGHTER WAS MURDERED BY YALE LAB TECH: I want to talk about my daughter because tomorrow is anniversary for her wedding. She supposed to start her new life.
PINSKY: This must (ph) be so, so, so sad.
LE: And I`m really missing her.
PINSKY: I bet.
LE: And I`m missing her (ph), because she was a strong woman.
PINSKY: I know.
LE: And smart.
PINSKY: Do you hope that this suit is going to protect other women?
LE: Yes. Speaking for my daughter, Annie Le, I don`t want nobody been killed like her because she died in vain, she died for nothing. I want Yale to change the security system and to be safer for other students.
PINSKY: Particularly the women students, right?
PINSKY: Well, now, in this wrongful death suit that`s been filed against Yale, the lead council for the estate of Annie Le made these allegations. This sort of sets up what we`re talking about here. Prior to September 8, 2009, Yale had long taken inadequate steps to ensure the safety and security of women on its campus.
Sexual attacks on and harassment of women at Yale had been a well documented, and long-standing problem, and Yale repeatedly failed to impose meaningful discipline on offenders. As a result, Yale created a culture of tolerance that allowed and encouraged aggressive male behavior towards women.
Mary, I guess, this is the bottom line what the suit is about, it`s to also not have let this death go in vain and to protect other women at Yale. My understanding also is that this guy that eventually attacked Annie had a record.
MARY NGUYEN, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF ANNIE LE: That`s right. It`s important to know the lawsuit is not about a financial gain or about money. The lawsuit is to prevent this from happening again. This was a tragic and very violent ending to a very beautiful and prosperous future for a young woman. And so, the point of this lawsuit is that to have Yale step up and state very specific security system so that other women on campus will not be attacked again.
PINSKY: Is it just security systems or is it changing the culture? Because in that complaint, there`s sort of an allegation that the culture isn`t quite where it should be.
NGUYEN: I think it`s a combination of many things. And, you know, again, this is not the most appropriate venue to discuss all of the legal aspects of it.
PINSKY: How dare you. This is an appropriate venue to discuss whatever you like.
NGUYEN: But I will say that there will be substantial evidence to show that not only was there a culture of tolerance on Yale with respect to prior complaints, but there was also prior notice of this particular defendant, Mr. Clark.
PINSKY: Now, I don`t know if you can comment on this. My understanding is his immediate supervisor who was receiving these complaints was somebody very close to him.
NGUYEN: Again, I don`t want to play all the cards out here, but it is. I can confirm that his supervisor at the lab where he worked and where Annie Le was killed was his brother-in-law, and also, his sister was also a supervisor there.
PINSKY: Are you fighting -- this could be a hard question to ask. Is the culture of an ivory tower difficult to change? I mean, even when I almost choke on saying that Yale needs to make all these changes. I mean, it`s Yale. You know, don`t they know better? Don`t they have a culture that addresses these kinds of issues?
And I guess, we have to keep in mind, they`re a human organization like any other, but as such, because they are such an ivory tower, does that make it more difficult for them to change?
NGUYEN: You know, Yale is a very distinguished, a very prominent university in the world. And so, it`s surprising that there is such endemic problem on Yale.
PINSKY: And it has to change. The Yale responded. A spokesperson shared this statement with us. "Yale believes there`s no basis for the civil suit filed on behalf of the estate of Annie Le. Yale had no information indicating that Raymond Clark was capable of committing of this terrible crime and no reasonable security measures could have prevented his unforeseeable act."
Mary, that`s kind of what I`m asking. I`m not sure security cameras would have prevented this particular act, but is it not just the culture of when a woman makes complaint, it`s taken very, very seriously no matter who the superior is?
NGUYEN: I mean, you would hope so that Yale or any educational institution is going to take some thing like this very seriously. And so, again, without divulging all of the legal aspects of this case --
PINSKY: Let me ask. Rather than speaking vaguely about it, what exactly do you hope to achieve and do you think you`re going to achieve it?
NGUYEN: I absolutely do think we will achieve it. And the evidence at the end of the day is absolutely going to show that there is prior notice of this individual`s violence and prior complaints, and that this incident with Annie Le should have been prevented, could have been prevented, and Yale must step up and prevent prior -- I mean, more future evidences --
PINSKY: Review policies and procedures? New security forces, cameras, all of the above?
NGUYEN: All of the things have to be implemented.
PINSKY: Education of students. My understanding is, by the way, Annie really tried to protect herself. There`s evidence on her body, forensic evidence is that she fought this guy off.
NGUYEN: She did. And it`s important to note that Annie was very concerned with the security on campus. She was part of a program that assisted other students, and in fact, she even wrote an article about campus security prior to her death.
PINSKY: What an awful, awful irony.
PINSKY: Now, the Yale president, Richard Levin, addressed the press after Raymond Clark was arrested for the murder of Annie. Watch this.
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RICHARD LEVIN, PRESIDENT, YALE UNIVERSITY: His supervisor reports that nothing in the history of his unemployment here gave any indication that his involvement in such a crime might be possible.
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PINSKY: Mary, since that statement, has Yale taken any action to improve their security for women?
NGUYEN: It is my understanding they have taken some measures to prevent and to change some of the security systems. However, it is not enough. And after this lawsuit, and this is the purpose of this lawsuit is to prevent any future attacks on women so that the culture and the tolerance can change at Yale.
PINSKY: Well, thank you, Mary. And Vivian, thank you for joining us. I do appreciate it.
LE: Thank you very much.
PINSKY: I know it`s a huge loss. We`re going to have you back in a few minutes, but I just appreciate you coming in and being willing to talk about it.
LE: Thank you.
PINSKY: OK. Up next, Annie Le`s college family remembers her incredible life. We`re going to hear from them in just a few minutes. So, please, do stay with us. We`ll be right back.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very cool person, very down to earth. You know, always willing to help someone out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Focused, disciplined, well rounded, vibrant, and actually, this teacher`s favorite student of all time.
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NATALIE POWERS, ANNIE LE`S ROOMMATE: She was always kind, generous, honest, and caring, just keeps going (ph). And she was tougher than you think by just looking at her. That this horrible tragedy happened at all is incomprehensible, but that had happened to her, I think is infinitely more so.
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PINSKY: Indeed. That was Annie Le`s roommate speaking at her memorial service. Annie was a student at Yale University, and she was murdered by university lab technician in 2009. Annie`s family has now filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Yale University. Vivian Le is Annie`s mother and Mary Nyugen is an attorney for the Le family. Vivian, I understand, you want to sort of be clear about your motivation for having this lawsuit and honoring Annie`s death in the way you`ve chosen to do.
LE: Yes. I`m standing for my daughter, Annie Le. I don`t want no more women to be die like and hurting like my daughter because my daughter die in vain and die for nothing. This lawsuit is not for financial aid, for the money. I just want Yale to change security system and protect students for the future to be safe for the students.
PINSKY: Is it safe to say, you never want another mother to go through what you`ve had to go through?
LE: Yes. I don`t want no one to be hurt like me.
PINSKY: No mother should.
LE: And, I have a very large family. Everyone support my decision. Unfortunately, I cannot make everyone happy. The important thing is just for Annie Le. I don`t want people think like I am suing there for money.
PINSKY: You don`t want them to disrespect the honor of Annie. I understand that.
PINSKY: And you have a big team in the east working with you as well. Not just you guys out here in the west, right?
NGUYEN: Yes. Going after somebody like Yale, we`ve got a representative --
PINSKY: This is one person`s opinion. There are, apparently, legal team that feels this is a viable cause.
NGUYEN: Very much so.
PINSKY: OK. Thank you, Mary. And Vivian, thank you so much again. I know just very painful to have to even hear stories like this. Just awful with kids in college. I can`t imagine it.
OK. A few words before we go. Now, this is discussing 9/11 and yesterday, what we al were feeling. I was watching some coverage, and sort of reliving what I remember happened on that day. Many of us have been able to kind of move on, and many of us have explicit memories of what happened on that day.
I thought to myself, you know, those shouldering the true burden of that day, what I called the next generation, these are young people who were, perhaps, too young to recall the attacks or children left without fathers or mothers that they will never know, and this is the generation that`s actually going out and fighting in these wars.
Now, I never imagined 30 years ago, when I started radio that I`d be talking to kids returning from battle. That to me is mind bending, and it`s because of the acts of terrorism of 9/11. 9/11 will be part of their futures, that next generation, in ways we may not even understand or no right now. They`re the ones shouldering this more than the rest of us, although, we all have these explicit memories of them.
Let`s be mindful of what`s ahead for them and recognize that the greatest generation maybe is coming up, may wasn`t in our past. Thanks for watching. I`ll see you next time.