Return to Transcripts main page


Millionaire on Trial for Wife`s Murder; Human Remains Found Near Josh Powell`s Campsite

Aired September 15, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, bankruptcy, booze, and bizarre behavior. The secrets of a Florida millionaire spill out as he goes on trial for murdering his wife. Cops want to know why he was acting this way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I wouldn`t do that. No -- no, no -- no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And why did his story change at least four times? What will the jury believe? We`ll take you inside the courtroom and take your calls.

Plus, is this ka-ching justice? Judge Belvin Perry rules Casey Anthony has to pay a massive bill for the law enforcement investigation into her daughter Caylee`s disappearance. But is it enough? And where will she get all that cash?

And will missing Susan Powell`s family finally get answers? Cops find human bones near where Susan`s husband, Josh, claims he went camping when she vanished. It is her? I`ll take live to Susan`s best friend tonight.

Then, the couple made famous as the alleged White House party crashers back at it again. First, "Real Housewives of D.C." star Michaele Salahi`s husband report she`s been kidnapped. Then he discovers she`s run off with the guitarist from Journey. What? A former "D.C. Housewife" cast mate joins me live tonight for this latest Salahi drama-rama.

ISSUES starts now.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ward first said he shot his wife. Then he said it was an accident, and later said she committed suicide.

B. WARD: I`m not worried about anybody here. You know, I would just like to get out of this nasty cell.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody loves the witty one? Who doesn`t love the one with the great sense of humor?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you sit here right now, do you have any opinion as to whether or not Mr. Ward is guilty?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know when the facts come out, that they`ll understand what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the very first words out of Bob Ward`s mouth, "I just shot my wife."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, from the very same Orlando courtroom Casey Anthony made famous, and featuring some of the very same expert witnesses, now it`s the high-profile murder trial of a Florida real-estate millionaire accused of gunning down his wife. But he claims it was all a big accident.

Real-estate mogul Bob Ward called 911 in the middle of the night from his massive mansion in Isleworth, Florida, three years ago. Listen to what he rather calmly told the 911 dispatcher.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the emergency?

B. WARD: I just shot my wife.


B. WARD: I just shot my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where`s your wife?

B. WARD: She`s right here on the floor.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. That`s what I call cool, calm, and collected. But should he have been?

Ward`s 55-year-old socialite wife, Diane, had been shot in the face. Her husband told cops it happened while he was trying to stop her from committing suicide while she was high on antidepressants and booze. But cops say Bob Ward changed his story several times.

Listen to what Bob Ward told his brother on the phone from a police interrogation room soon after his wife`s death.


B. WARD: It was an accident, and -- and I will tell you more about it later. But, you know, it was a very tragic accident. And other than that, all I wish I could do was go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shoot myself in the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) head and go on.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So he`s got some changing stories there. And it`s Ward`s behavior behind bars that really has heads spinning.

Here he is in jail, charged with the murder of his wife, but he is laughing and dancing. And there you see him, doing some sort of striptease as he talks to one of his daughters. Really? Jokes at a time like this? Does he look like a devastated husband to you?

What do you think? Call me: 1-877-586-7297, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to jury consultant Susan Constantine.

Susan, you were inside the courtroom today for opening arguments. Was real estate mogul/defendant Bob Ward still laughing and goofing around, or does he now realize, do you think, that this is serious business? If convicted, he could go away for life.

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT: You know, he`s not doing either one, Jane. He`s sitting back. He`s got this very calm demeanor about him. You can tell, because I`ve been watching him now for a couple of days.

And he has that attitude, this persuasiveness, this -- this charm that he presents. He`s building rapport with the jury by making eye contact. He`s approaching them with likeability. He`s using a lot of his really great persuasion skills to win them over and to build rapport. So he`s not doing either one.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How is he doing all that while he`s just sitting there at the defense table? Winning them over with his suave affair (ph)? I don`t get it.

CONSTANTINE: OK. Well, it`s when the cameras are on and when they`re off. You know, when the jury comes walking in, he`s looking straight at them. He has no problem looking at that jury and making really good, positive eye contact.

Then during break, as we`re leaving, part of the media, because we`re sitting actually in -- at the very beginning, during pool, we were sitting in the jury box. And as we`re walking out, he`s shaking everybody`s hands, like, "Thank for coming. Nice to meet you."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you know what? You know what, Susan? He acts like the boss, at all times. He is acting like he`s in charge.

And remember what -- let`s go back to the Warren Jeffs trial and what the judge said to Warren Jeffs. "You may find this hard to accept, but you`re not in charge here."

Let`s watch this very bizarre moment in jail when defendant Bob Ward is doing some sort of weird dance with his daughter while he`s talking to the sister of his dead wife. Check this out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll make sure that, um -- no, I wouldn`t do that. No, no, no. Do you want to hear -- do you want to hear -- Beth said that she`s had, you know, hundreds of phone calls about you, and everybody is very, very supportive, you know?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And very bizarre behavior by the whole family. The daughter is dancing and doing some kind of hip-hop dance there, and look at him. I don`t know what this la-di-da false bravado attitude is al about, but I can tell you that this was a family in crisis.

Turns out that they`re -- they`re not that rich after all, because Ward`s company was in bankruptcy the very same month that his wife died. Listen to what Ward told cops when they asked him about what he did for a living.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you do for a living?

B. WARD: I`m a real-estate developer under attack by about a hundred million people right now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Woo! OK, so, my big issue with this: rich? Really? OK, he looks rich. He`s got a multimillion-dollar mansion. Look at that place.

Apparently, according to some reports, he had a $140,000 car, equestrian events for one of his daughters who liked to ride horses. His wife was reportedly spending a lot of money, expensive tastes.

Now, his wife died two days, approximately, before she was supposed to testify at a bankruptcy deposition. There are reports that she was -- may have been asked about claims that he was funneling money to his daughters, allegedly, through a trust or his daughter`s trust.

I want to go out to Anthony Colarossi, who`s a senior reporter at the "Orlando Sentinel." What do you know about their money problems and how it may have played a role in this tragedy?

ANTHONY COLAROSSI, SENIOR REPORTER, "ORLANDO SENTINEL" (via phone): Well, so far, what we`ve heard in court is this specter of, you know, serious financial problems in the family that, in fact, Diane was going to be testifying through deposition, in this bankruptcy proceeding. But we haven`t gotten very many specifics.

We`ve heard about a recent deposition involving a bankruptcy trustee, which was done right on the eve of the trial. But we don`t have many specifics about that yet. So we`re still...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me -- let me ask Jeff Brown, criminal defense attorney, do you think that this could be something that prosecutors hone in on as a possible motive for -- for this murder? Because if she`s supposed to do a deposition, and she knows stuff that maybe is a toxic secret about finances, and she`s under oath, she might be asked about that.

JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean, if we learned anything from Casey Anthony, motive matters. It`s not an element of a crime, but it matters.

The problem with Casey Anthony was the jury just didn`t buy the motive that she wanted to go out and party. They thought that it maybe was an accidental death.

Here, they have to prove a motive. You can`t just try to convict him on these words and say he killed his wife without giving the jury an explanation. Why would he do this?

There`s the motive. It has to do with her disclosing information, perhaps, that he doesn`t want out, that`s going to financially ruin him. If that`s true, then they have to develop that. If they don`t, they have learned nothing from Casey Anthony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I agree with you. You don`t have to technically prove motive, but you really do if you want to win the case. And that was a point we brought home during the Casey Anthony case.

Now, on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to an attorney for a woman who used to date this defendant a long time ago. And you will not believe the shocking things that she is alleging. And she is going to be one of the witnesses, reportedly, at this trial.

We`re taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

More on this millionaire murder trial.

And by the way, a little bit later, we`re going to show you something that`s quite astounding. It has nothing to do with this case. It has to do with Nancy Grace on "Dancing with the Stars." Stay with us.


B. WARD: I`m very concerned about my wife and my children right now. I have two kids in college, and it`s a nightmare. But we probably need to go ahead and get the lawyer in here.




B. WARD: I`m not worried about anybody here, you know? I would just like to get out of this nasty cell that doesn`t have any water. I mean, this place hasn`t been cleaned, I can`t tell you when. It`s awful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`ll definitely get on housekeeping for that. I`ll call housekeeping right now and make sure. And I`ll have them put a mint on your pillow too, OK?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ha, ha, ha. But not funny. There`s somebody who`s dead. In fact, I believe it`s the sister of that woman who`s talking about -- this is unbelievable. What is this family so jovial about? There`s a dead woman. She was shot in the face.

Now, one of the people set to testify next week in the trial of Bob Ward, the husband of the dead woman, is one of Bob Ward`s ex-girlfriends, a woman by the name of Diane Callahan. And joining us now in an ISSUES exclusive is Diane Callahan`s attorney, Darryl Cohen.

There you see a photo of the lovely Diane Callahan.

Darryl Cohen, thank you for joining us tonight. What does your client say she experienced when she was dating, back in the `80s, the defendant, Bob Ward?


All right. Well, we`re going to get back to Darryl in a second.

Holly Hughes, what do you think is going on with this family? Honestly, the dancing, the laughing, "Oh, a mint on your pillow," is it just sort of like country club bravado or are they happy that this woman is no longer with them?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, you know, I was watching you last night when you were talking about the Anthonys and how we can learn from them; we can learn from, you know, this dysfunctional family. And it just strikes me that we can learn from the trial of Casey.

Normally, before the Casey Anthony trial, I would have watched these jail tapes and thought, "This is horrible! If a jury sees this, they are going to be incensed. They`re going to think it is insensitive, it`s nasty, that you didn`t love your wife."

But you know, we watched all those jail videos of Casey engaging in inappropriate behavior and laughing, and a jury acquitted her. So you don`t know what`s going on here.

It sticks in my craw. It hits me the same way it hits you, Jane: it`s inappropriate. Someone is dead. Even if it was an accident, my goodness. This is your mother, your wife, your sister.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Somebody`s shaking their head, but I don`t know who it is. Who is it? Jeff, you`re shaking your head? You don`t think this is inappropriate?

BROWN: It is inappropriate, but the guy is looking at murder. He`s looking at spending the rest of his life in prison for perhaps a crime he didn`t commit. People deal with stress in many different, odd ways. It`s not unusual to have somebody try to relieve themselves from stress and act in this manner. I see this with clients all the time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait a second.

BROWN: I don`t think you can look at this and just say...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Check this out and see if this is stress relief. OK. This is daughter, Mallory, from ABC`s "Good Morning America," telling her dad that she put money in his jail account for bras and hemorrhoid cream.


MALLORY WARD, DAUGHTER OF BOB WARD: There`s money in the account for you to get stuff. There`s all sorts of goodies. You can buy a bra, so I was thinking that, you know, you`d enjoy that, and hemorrhoid cream.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ha, ha, ha. Not funny, again.

Jeff, continue on with how people grieve differently. I think I remember that from the Casey Anthony trial.

BROWN: Yes. It`s not funny, I get that, but you know, this the guy is charged with murder. And the family`s trying to deal with this. And they`re talking to him in a jail where they may never see him again.

So, you know, I don`t think you can just sit back and so easily say that this is just odd behavior and say that it`s because he`s a criminal and he did this crime. I think people act differently when they`re under stress.


BROWN: And I can`t think of a more stressful situation than this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand. I understand. And you might be right. I don`t know. Darryl Cohen, the attorney for Diane Callahan, who dated Bob Ward back in the `80s, what do you say? What does your client say he did?

DARRYL COHEN, ATTORNEY FOR DIANE CALLAHAN (via phone): In the `80s, he beat her viciously after a decent relationship that deteriorated and went down. He threatened her with a gun, threatened to kill her. And the case ultimately was prosecuted, and then she decided she felt bad for him, so she dropped the charges. So this is not an isolated instance in his position.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she actually filed charges, but then eventually dropped the case?

COHEN: That`s correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Do you think, Holly Hughes, that that`s going to come into this trial?

HUGHES: You know, I don`t see how it can, Jane. Typically in criminal trials, you`re not allowed to enter prior bad acts. Because you don`t want the jury to judge you for something you may or may not have done 20 years ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. But let me -- le me jump in here. Darryl Cohen, I thought that your client is going to testify at this trial?

COHEN: She is. Subpoenaed to testify on Monday. And with all due respect, in many instances, motive, scheme attempt (ph), bent of mind (ph), course of conduct absolutely can come in, even if the person was never charged.


COHEN: It`s a course of conduct, similar transactions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it involved a gun. You`re saying -- tell us again, the gun?

COHEN: He threatened her -- he threatened to kill her with a gun. That is correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. And did -- are you alleging any physical violence on his part against your client?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Hitting her or what?

COHEN: She -- she went to the emergency room, and she was treated.


COHEN: So this woman`s -- this woman`s an absolute hero for coming forward, at great personal risk to herself, emotionally, from her friends and family. I think a lot of people feel like she shouldn`t do it, but she feels like she has to do the right thing. And if some other woman is not hurt as a result of her coming forward or killed, she`s done the right thing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is the big question tonight. Murder or accident? Now, look at both sides go head to head in opening arguments today, the prosecutor and the defense. Check it out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, this case is about the fact it was Bob Ward that shot her, almost dead between the eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Diane Ward was killed by a single gunshot wound as she struggled with her husband over a loaded gun. This entire incident happened in the blink of an eye. Her death was an unexpected and tragic accident.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`ve got another aspect to this. Drugs, booze. Drugs and booze. Toxicology reports show that drugs and alcohol were in Diane Ward`s system, four times the prescribed amount of the antidepressant Celexa, and some say that can cause suicidal tendencies. And also, she had a blood alcohol level of .113. So she was legally drunk.

Now, a deputy said that she smelled alcohol on his -- the defendant, her husband`s breath -- so were they both drinking and things got ugly because of money problems?

Stay right there.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have actually found human remains. What they have found thus far appears to be something recent.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got some breaking news for you in the search for missing Utah woman, Susan Powell. Cops are saying tonight that cadaver dogs have found a set of human remains in the rugged Utah desert. Have they finally found this beautiful woman?

The night this beautiful mother of two disappeared, her husband says - - get this -- that he took his 2- and his 4-year-old sons camping, after midnight, on a freezing cold stormy night.


JOSH POWELL, PERSON OF INTEREST IN WIFE`S DISAPPEARANCE: A lot of times I just go camping with my boys. You know, not -- not anything big. I just go overnight, and we do s`mores and stuff like that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Huh. S`mores? During a snowstorm? Cops say they found the remains only 30 miles away from where husband Josh Powell says he took that so-called late-night camping trip with his young sons on a Sunday night after midnight, when he was due for work Monday morning.

Straight out to my exclusive guest, Kiirsi Hellewell, a good friend of Susan`s.

You`ve been fighting for Susan since she disappeared. Thank you for joining us. What are you going through right now as we wait to find out whether they are going to determine that these remains that were just found are Susan`s or not? What`s it like, emotionally, for you?

KIIRSI HELLEWELL, SUSAN`S FRIEND: It`s very emotional. Yesterday, when I first heard they found the remains, I just started crying. And I was kind of surprised by that, because there have been several bodies that have been found in the past, and I haven`t felt as emotional about these -- about those.

But I think the reason for this is because the police were specifically there looking in that area with cadaver dogs, looking for remains, and they actually found some. So it really hit me hard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And the proximity to where her husband, Josh Powell, says he went camping, a story that many found very strange.

Now, again, the remains found only about 30 miles from where Josh says he went camping with his sons. It was a night that was very stormy. He says he left after midnight. It was below freezing, and he`s got a 2- and a 4-year-old, and he`s saying they are doing s`mores out there in this storm. And he forgot that he was due for work the next morning.

Susan`s family and Josh`s family have been fighting ever since Susan disappeared. Listen to this. It`s been -- it`s a feud.


CHUCK COX, SUSAN POWELL`S FATHER: You`ve come out against my family. That`s what you`ve said. And I can have the articles and show them to you what you`ve said to the media.


COX: And it`s been a personal attack.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Josh Powell has released a statement, saying he hopes that "we get additional information to minimize the heartache of those who love Susan," but Kiirsi, you feel that he hasn`t really acted with love. In fact, cops say that he hasn`t cooperated.

HELLEWELL: He hasn`t cooperated at all. I mean, I even handed him a stack of flyers when he was moving out of his house and packing up the moving van, and I handed him a roll of tape. And I said, "You guys are going to be driving 13 hours back to Washington, and you`ll be stopping at rest areas along the way and maybe truck stops. Could you hang some of these up in every single place you stop?"

And instead of being eagerly saying, "Oh, sure, I`ll do that," he kind of looked at it, and then looked at me and then he said, "Oh, yes, I guess I could do that."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I know you have been absolutely vigilant and relentless in your search for your friend, and we hope we have more information. Thank you so much, Kiirsi.

More on the search for Susan Powell on "Nancy Grace," top of the hour.

Next, Casey.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The extraordinary Dr. Phil interview with Cindy and George --

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, DR. PHIL: Your theory is that she is a victim in this, in some way?

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I truly believe that because there was never any signs that Casey was an unfit mother. She was an awesome mother.

CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED FOR MURDER OF DAUGHTER: I just wanted to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did. Sorry, sorry.

MCGRAW: There are millions of people in America right now that want to shake you awake.

CINDY ANTHONY: Call for a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) one more time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what are you going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED). What are you going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) do?

MCGRAW: Cindy`s answer to that is, look, I think she may have a brain tumor.

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what happened. I`m almost wondering if she didn`t develop postpartum schizophrenia.

I`m not making justifications for that. Were the seizures caused by stress? I don`t know. And I`m not making excuses for her.

MCGRAW: I think you are.

You don`t include the possibility that she used that shovel to dig a hole in the ground in the woods to bury her dead baby?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, more of Dr. Phil`s riveting one on one with George and Cindy. But first, the state of Florida socks Casey Anthony with a massive bill. It says, pay up, lady.

Good evening, everyone. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell back with you from New York City. How much money does Casey now owe? Prosecutors wanted Casey to pay for all of their investigation, all of the time and effort they put into solving, well, a quote "kidnapping" that Casey later admitted never happened. Back in 2008, Casey sent investigators on a fruitless and frantic search with statements like this one.


CASEY ANTHONY: I know we`re going to see Caylee. I know she`s coming home. I can feel it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, she admitted on the first day of the trial that little Caylee was dead all along. Well, the state wants her to pay $500,000 plus -- half a million dollars. But the judge ruled today and all they`re going to get is -- drum roll please -- $97,676. So is that a victory for Casey? That`s less than a quarter of what they wanted.

All this comes as shock waves continue to be felt from George and Cindy Anthony`s stunning interview with Dr. Phil. One of the jaw-dropping moments: when Cindy rationalizes why Casey might have dumped her daughter`s body in the woods.


CINDY ANTHONY: I know that Casey`s belief, as soon as someone dies, they leave their body and that`s no longer Caylee. Caylee went straight to heaven. I know that.

MCGRAW: Are you trivializing burying this child in the woods because she was a Christian and believed her soul had left her body?

CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not. That`s not the right place for Caylee`s remains to be. I mean I feel that as soon as someone dies, they`re gone and that`s just a shell.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Wild justifications. Is Cindy delusional? Give me a call, 1-877-586-7297, 1-877-Jvm-Says. Straight out to "In Session`s" Jean Casarez, who`s been all over this case; can you explain in people terms why Casey got such a small bill? They wanted $500,000; she got less than $100,000.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": In people terms, the judge said that Casey Anthony was only responsible for the costs associated with a missing little girl, because she lied to law enforcement saying, "My daughter`s been kidnapped. She`s alive, but she`s been kidnapped." And between July 18th and the end of September, that`s when they searched for a living Casey. After that, it was a homicide investigation. She`s not responsible for what she was acquitted of.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. In other words, they can`t pin them -- they didn`t pin the murder on her. She was found not guilty of the murder, so they can`t charge her for investigating the costs of the murder. They can only charge her for their wild and frantic investigation and search for a missing child that, on the first day of her trial, she admitted was never missing.

Ok, remember how Cindy, Casey`s mom said the "not guilty" verdict was a sign from God that Casey was innocent? Well, after that, she told Dr. Phil that Caylee -- are you sitting down -- that Caylee would be happy with the verdict. Listen to this from "Dr. Phil".


CINDY ANTHONY: I know that Caylee`s soul would never have rested knowing that her mother has been vilified for her death. And I know that it was an accident. And until someone can prove it differently, that`s what I believe. And I`m hoping someday we`ll find out what happened to Casey.

And I`m not going to be her judge and jury. God is her judge. And he let her free.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, you watched this trial moment by moment, I think that Cindy is very emboldened by the "not guilty" verdict to say, hey, do not pin anything on my daughter. And in a sense, she does have a point that the jury found her daughter not guilty on all counts, even though most people in America think the jury got it completely wrong, myself, included.

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right, Jane. We see this with a lot of criminals. You know, just because a jury finds you not guilty doesn`t mean you`re innocent. And one of the jurors actually said that, Jane, in the interview said, "You know, just because we couldn`t find something to convict her of does not mean we think she`s innocent." So, even the jury had a hard time letting her go. They did what they thought was right.

But let`s back up a second, Jane. Do you remember -- I mean, you and I watched every second of this trial together. The defense, themselves, made such a big to do about how when a pet in the Anthony family died, they had a funeral for then pet. And then Cindy`s going to go on national TV and say, it`s ok that my daughter dumped my granddaughter in the woods, because, poof, the soul is gone anyway. When they memorialized the pet, wrapped them up all special and had a big funeral for them. Unbelievable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, that is an excellent point.

HUGHES: Unbelievable, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is an excellent point.

Ok. There`s even more coming from Dr. Phil and George and Cindy. We`re going to get more in just a couple of days. This coming Monday, they`re going to blow it out again on the "Dr. Phil" show. We`re going to give you a sneak peek right now.


MCGRAW: The public believes that you perjured yourself on the stand to protect your daughter. Did you lie?

Do you know, to the absolute core of your heart, that this man never molested your daughter?

CINDY ANTHONY: Mr. Baez called me and said that he had something to tell me. I was the only one that was supposed to come.


CINDY ANTHONY: Casey wanted me to know how Caylee died.

MCGRAW: If she showed up on your front porch tomorrow and said I want to come home, what would you say?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. It has been, well, leaked, you might say, that George says that he would not allow Casey back into their home.

Jean Casarez, you`ve spoken to Jose Baez. You have a good relationship with Casey`s defense attorney. Where the heck is she, as she does her probation? And do you think that there`s ever a chance that she might visit her parents while she`s doing her year probation in Florida?

CASAREZ: Jane, I don`t know where she is. I have no idea. We know she`s in Florida. We know that if she wants to go to another state, the other state has to grant permission. I don`t think anybody knows where she is. They have kept that a very carefully guarded secret. But she is, in the course of this year, on probation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Teresa, Pennsylvania, your question or thought, Teresa?

TERESA, PENNSYLVANIA (via telephone): Hi, Jane.


TERESA: I`m so glad to finally get to talk to you. I love your show.


TERESA: My thought is, since Cindy Anthony is a nurse and seemed so concerned and caring for both her daughter and they are granddaughter, why would she allow Casey to drive little Caylee all around the state, knowing she had a grand mal seizure? Here in Pennsylvania, if you have a seizure, your driver`s license is revoked until you`re seizure-free.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love your question, Teresa. Out to Jeff Brown, criminal defense attorney out of Tampa.

JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I don`t think in Florida -- actually, I don`t know for certain -- but I don`t believe that would be any reason for you to lose your license here in Florida.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, the point is, the point is, she`s saying that Cindy`s a nurse, and Cindy now she`s talking about, oh, my daughter might have had -- she had grand mal seizures, could have had postpartum schizophrenia, she could have had a tumor. Well, if she had all that, why would Cindy, the nurse --

BROWN: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- let Casey drive around with little Caylee all day?

BROWN: Exactly. And this begs the other question. If all these things are true, that she had -- whether a tumor or something else like that, how does that have anything to do with a drowning? All those explanations that Cindy`s giving is not because this child drowned, it`s because this child was killed.

So, you know, she`s speaking out of both sides of her mouth here. I think what she`s trying to suggest is give a reason why her daughter may have killed this child. And you know, the problem with all of this is, this interview isn`t getting us any closer to answers as to what actually happened with this child. We know the drowning is a joke by the way they reacted, so, you know, we still want answers.

And this case is always going to be a concern to everybody that watches this case, because we`re no closer to knowing what happened to this poor child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think we are inching closer in the sense that I think George had the courage to say that he feels that his daughter, Casey, is in some way, shape, or form responsible for his granddaughter`s death. And I think that`s a step forward, anyway.

Thank you, fabulous panel.

Remember, top of the hour, "NANCY GRACE". Much more on the search for Susan Powell. Don`t miss it.

Also, this is fascinating, people. Nancy is hitting the dance floor starting this Monday. Here is an exclusive clip of Nancy and her part, Trystan McManus rehearsing for the new season of ABC`s "Dancing with the Stars".

Wait a second. Look at this. Look how great Nancy is doing. Look at this. She`s got the moves. She`s got the moves. I`m telling you something, I think she can win this thing. She can win this thing, but we`ve got to vote for her.

So more of Nancy behind the scenes in a little while; and there you are. That`s how you can vote. Watch the season premiere of "Dancing with the Stars" this coming Monday.

All right, coming up, two reality stars and one rock star. It started out as an alleged kidnapping. It has now turned into a love triangle. We`re taking your calls on the Salahi scandal, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586- 7297.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mrs. Salahi advised that she did not want Mr. Salahi to know where she was. Mrs. Salahi advised the deputy that she was very sorry that the sheriff`s office had to be involved, but did not want to go home right now.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you remember the Salahis? The "D.C. Housewives" stars who crashed that state dinner at the White House back in 2009?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. and Mrs. Salahi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tareq Salahi says his wife, Michaele, was kidnapped.

MICHAELE SALAHI, "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF D.C.": On the advice of counsel I respectfully assert my right to remain silent and decline to answer your question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think this is a stunt?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s probably trying to get away from him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stand down because the "Real Housewives of D.C." star Michaele Salahi wasn`t really kidnapped. She apparently just took off to hang out with a guitarist from Journey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mrs. Salahi advised that she didn`t want Mr. Salahi to know where she was.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Crazy. Tonight, White House gate crashers, alleged, to reality star to kidnapping victim -- not exactly. The accused White House party crashers are at it again. "Real Housewives" star Tareq Salahi told cops Tuesday that his wife, Michaele, was missing and may have been kidnapped.

Now, we had our doubts but we could never have guessed what would come next; turns out that Michaele is shacking up with Journey guitarist Neal Schon. Here`s Neal rocking out in a YouTube" clip.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t stop believing -- oh, I love this band. Now, Michaele is with the band right now in Memphis, where they`re performing tonight. Will she become Journey`s Yoko Ono? Is this the end of the Salahi marriage?

Listen to a teary Tareq right after he reported his wife, he feared, had been kidnapped.


TAREQ SALAHI, HUSBAND OF MICHAELE SALAHI: I swear to God, really, my wife, I just want to -- I think she`s being forced by whatever this Oregon phone number is. I mean, I think she`s being forced to say "I`m ok".


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Uh, Tareq, I think this gives new mean to all of Journey`s hits, "Faithfully", remember that one? "I`ll Be All Right without You", "Any Way You Want It", "Ask the Lonely", "Who`s Crying Now", "Separate Ways", "Girl Can`t Help It". I think that`s the best one, "Girl Can`t Help It".

All right. "Don`t Stop Believing", Tareq. This latest drama comes days before the Salahis of Virginia Winery was slated for bankruptcy auction. So is this about money? Is this a publicity stunt? Is this just a good old-fashioned love triangle? This couple keeps us all guessing.

I`m thrilled to welcome my friend, Diane Dimond, author of "Cirque du Salahi", great title, Diane.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everybody`s dying to know. I mean what the heck? I guess that`s my question. What the heck?

DIMOND: Well, you know, Jane. I`m going to get a little serious on your here. I think you`re watching a woman finally getting enough guts to escape. And I choose my words very carefully there. When I wrote the book, I went down to Virginia; I was in their house, practically living there. Stayed in a hotel, but I worked with them on this book for weeks, together.

And I saw that he was a domineering man. He is the one who calls the shots. When she wanted to say something differently, he -- his flash of anger would show. Not that he was physically abusive in any way, but I have to tell you, when I heard this kidnap story, I said, "No way. Go, girlfriend. You finally got enough guts to get out."

And I talk about Neal Schon in the book. She openly talked to me about how he was one of her greatest loves in her whole life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she`s had a thing for the Journey front man for years and years and years, and you`re saying that she`s finally just said, "Hasta la vista, hubby; I`m not going to be involved with your crazy goings-on."

But I have to say, I have to wonder if money might have something to do with it, because they were days away from a bankruptcy auction.

I`m thrilled to welcome Lynda Erkiletian, former cast member of "Real Housewives of D.C. What do you know about Michaele and this Journey front man? Because reports are that maybe she`d been bragging about this hot love life with him for a while?

LYNDA ERKILETIAN, FORMER CAST MEMBER, "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF D.C.": No, not exactly. When I first heard the news, I was very concerned for her well-being, because I had not seen her since we did the reunion for the "Housewives of D.C. She basically just disappeared.

And during the show, I felt that Tareq was certainly being very dominating and at one point the ladies and I had decided we wanted to do an intervention with her. And we reached out and it was near impossible to get her alone to even discuss what was going on with her marriage. We just suspected, because of his behavior, around her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What behavior?

ERKILETIAN: Well, he was just extremely controlling. There was no -- there was never a time when we were with her without him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, hmm, controlling guy, she had enough and she took off and now he`s crying.

More Salahi saga.



M. SALAHI: Our life has always been out there and a part of attention with the winery and polo. We`ve gotten kind of used to it, never to this level, Jane.

You have to know who you are within and whatever your foundation of whatever relationship you`re in, it either grows stronger or it breaks apart.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it broke apart. That was the Salahis here on ISSUES during the good old days. About a year ago before the bankruptcy auction of their winery, which I think is coming up any day now.

I have to say that I have go back to this clip of Tareq when he is crying and talking about his wife having been kidnapped. Listen to this from WRC because it turns out she took off with the front man for Journey, famous for, of course, "Don`t Stop Believing" and all that. Do we have it? Let`s listen.


T. SALAHI: Everybody that that knows Michaele knows that she`s a very loving, beautiful person. And why anybody would want to hurt her or do anything -- I`m just scared for her. We`ve talked about these things because we`ve had many death threats and many stalkers over the years, from the TV show or the White House.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now housewife cast mate Cat wasn`t Michaele`s best friend on the show. She calls this whole drama, "More salami BS. Maybe she couldn`t stomach another day of the worst body odor known to mankind. Thank God the FBI had more sense than to spend more taxpayer money looking for her anywhere other than Journey`s tour bus. Good look with that journey."

Oh. Wow.

Exclusive now. Lynda Erkiletian, former cast member of "Real Housewives of D.C. What about their money problems, Lynda? The upcoming bankruptcy?

ERKILETIAN: They have been experiencing money problems for probably over a decade. And that was one of the issues that I had in being a part of the show with her because I had done business with them in the past, and it`s very shady and they continued to go on. And it`s very frustrating to see how people get away with that over and over.

And whether or not she was in a controlled environment, she`s still part -- you know, she was partaking in the con every bit as much as he was.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Diane Dimond, could it be that she decided to split because the good days are over. The winery is headed for bankruptcy auction. And they`ve got money problems. And it`s a combo platter. She has the hots for this guy from Journey and she doesn`t want to be around for the bad days.

DIMOND: You know, I spent so much time with them in their house, probably more time than anyone else in a concentrated period. And I have a piece coming up in "The Daily Beast" probably in about half an hour about what I saw behind the scenes.

And your other housewife there is exactly right. It was a very controlling environment. And I can imagine that with this bankruptcy coming up, Tareq Salahi has not been very pleasant to live with lately. And I`m going to remind people, as I said in the book, that this is a woman with multiple sclerosis. She told me that she chose life with Tareq instead of the guitarist Neal Schon from Journey because she thought life with Tareq would be more tranquil. It would be easier on her health.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I guess not.

DIMOND: Well how is that working out for you, Michaele? So I`m not saying that she`s going to wind up with Neal Schon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I go with the rock star every time.

ERKILETIAN: I wouldn`t be surprised if she didn`t go back --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ron Artest with the Lakers may have some fancy moves on the basketball court, but no competition for our Nancy Grace. Now, check out -- there`s Nancy with Ron. They are competitors on ABC`s "Dancing with the Stars", which debuts on Monday.

Now, we`re going to give you a sneak exclusive peek at Nancy rehearsing. Forget about me. Let`s see Nancy in full. I want to see her -- look at those moves. Look at those turns. You go, girl. Whoa, I`m telling you that stuff is difficult. I took a couple of dancing classes, and that is not easy.

She is just smooth as ice. She`s got this fabulous partner. I think she`s going to take it.

Of course, be sure to watch and vote for Nancy. We are going to bring you pictures of Nancy getting ready for her big Monday night here on ISSUES all week long. You go, Nancy Grace.

And you`re up next.