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Aruba Suspect Hires Casey Anthony`s Attorney; Behind the Scenes at Casey Anthony Trial

Aired September 19, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the dark secrets behind the scenes of the Casey Anthony trial. Cindy and George Anthony back under the "Dr. Phil" microscope. What does George say about the molestation accusations against him? And did Cindy admit to lying on the stand on the stand? I`m taking your calls.

Meantime, Casey`s lawyer, Jose Baez, talking about his controversial new client, Gary Giordano. Cops say he`s the prime suspect in the disappearance of a woman in Aruba. Now cops plan to reenact Robyn Gardner`s final hours. Did she really drown? Or did something far more sinister happen?

Plus, it`s official. The former "D.C. Housewives" couple accused of crashing a White House dinner headed to Splitsville. His wife is reportedly having an affair with the member of the rock band Journey. Now Tareq Salahi is ready to go to war. We`ll talk to his buddy, Michael Lohan, about the sordid divorce details.

ISSUES starts now.



RICHARD FORESTER, ROBYN`S BOYFRIEND: I`ve got serious reservations about Mr. Giordano`s stories.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: HLN has just confirmed the prime suspect in Robyn Gardner`s disappearance in Aruba has hired attorney Jose Baez.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is something familiar about that attorney, Jose Baez. You know, Casey Anthony`s defense attorney.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s going to specialize in three areas: forensics, strategy and the investigation. Jose Baez, talking about worlds colliding. Is it going to help Giordano or not?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live from Los Angeles.

The Michael Jackson death trial is taking place in the courthouse right behind me. We`re gearing up for opening statements next week. Right new they`re in jury selection. Meantime, we have got astounding new developments in the trial.

Plus, Casey Anthony`s parents, they`re back in the hot seat, Dr. Phil asking them tough question after tough question, like, "If you had more grandchildren, would you let Casey baby-sit them?"

But first, their daughter`s attorney, Jose Baez, taking on a new controversial client, Gary Giordano, the prime suspect in the disappearance of American tourist Robyn Gardner.

Now this guy was vacationing in Aruba with Robyn Gardner, a beautiful American tourist, when she suddenly vanishes into thin air. Well, he claims, oh, they were on a snorkeling trip and the waters got rough, and, oh, she just disappeared. Cops are very skeptical, and they locked Gary up.

Now Jose Baez is representing Gary Giordano. Baez has just been on the talk show circuit today. And the ladies of "The View" on ABC grilled Jose about his new client`s story.


JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR GARY GIORDANO: They went snorkeling in a certain area, and I`ve been there twice to that specific area. One time it was flat. And within a couple hours later, it was wavy, and the currents you just never know.

JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, ABC`S "THE VIEW": So the body wouldn`t have washed up by now?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a very good question from HLN`s own Joy Behar. Way to go, Joy.

Meanwhile, Jose already trying to complain about Gary Giordano`s conditions behind bars. Here is what Jose told Matt Lauer on NBC`s "Today Show."


BAEZ: He`s in prison, not in jail. They`ve moved him from the jail over to the prison where he is currently with convicted felons, violent offenders and in conditions that are extremely deplorable.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what I say to that? Boo, hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo.

Here with me in studio, Dylan Howard, senior executive editor, "Star" magazine and Radar Online.

Dylan, what do you know about this suppose reenactment that they`re staging today, the Aruban cops?

DYLAN HOWARD, SENIOR EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "STAR"/RADAR ONLINE: Taking place right at this hour, Jane. As we understand it, CCTV video along with witnesses are being used to try and reconstruct at least what Gary Giordano says took place on the night in question when Robyn Gardner disappeared.

And you may ask the question, why is it taking so long for to -- the supposed reconstruction to take place? Well, they`re attempting to recreate the entire scenario with the same conditions that took lace on that fateful night. So they believe the current is the same. The weather is the same. Indeed the water is the same scenario. Because of course, you will remember, that Gary said that the current was significant, and that`s what Robyn Gardner had to endure when she was out there snorkeling. So they`re attempting to poke holes, if you like, in his story.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So let me see if I understand this right. They`re actually getting a woman who is about the size and the weight of Robyn Gardner, and putting snorkeling equipment on her, and sending her out there to snorkel?

HOWARD: That, we don`t know. Certainly, what they`re attempting to do, though, is test Gary Giordano`s version of events. And you may ask the question, how in God`s name do you recreate something that potentially didn`t happen?


HOWARD: Well, what they`re doing here is attempting to try and disprove Gary`s version of events by saying that, even if the conditions were perfect, as he claimed, that it couldn`t have happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It couldn`t have happened the way he said it happened.

HOWARD: Indeed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Jose Baez, his attorney, on NBC`s "Today Show," says Gary is not taking part in the reenactments, because Jose Baez calls the reenactment totally useless. Listen to this.


BAEZ: I think it`s absurd to try and recreate the -- and replicate the conditions of the ocean on a specific date two months ago. I don`t think it`s possible. I think -- and the solicitor general has come out publicly to say, "We`re doing this to shoot holes in his story."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We want to go to Richard Forester, who is Robyn Gardner`s boyfriend. He is located in the D.C. area.

Thank you for joining us, Richard. I know this has been a nightmare for you day in and day out. And you`ve had to just watch this whole thing unfold, feeling very helpless. But what do you think of this idea to reenact something that a lot of people feel, including some of the cops, never happened at all?

FORESTER: Well, I agree that it never happened at all. As I`ve said before, she didn`t go snorkeling.

But I don`t want to lose track here. I mean, the whole point of this is to find Robyn. And, you know, whoever is representing her, whatever they`re doing, you know, if that`s going to help in finding her, that`s the bottom line there. Recreating it, you know, again, I don`t believe she went snorkeling. So if it is used to show that Gary`s story is false, then great. But again, the focus is on finding Robyn.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I thought Joy Behar really asked the question of the day when she said, "Well, if she had drowned, wouldn`t her body have washed up by now?" An obvious question that gets right to the point.

Now, Jose Baez on NBC`s "Today Show" says Aruban cops, he feels, are kind of overcompensating for their lack of solving the Natalee Holloway case. Check this out.


BAEZ: I think the Arubian [SIC] authorities are under a great deal of pressure because of the Natalee Holloway situation.

MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, NBC`S "THE TODAY SHOW": Previously unsolved murder.

BAEZ: Absolutely. They don`t want to appear like they`re not doing an extensive job or a thorough investigation. I think they`ve done an extensive and very investigation in this case. Unfortunately, they`re not being able to turn up anything because there is no evidence that he committed a crime.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, obviously, there was huge controversy as well as tragedy involving the Natalee Holloway case. A young girl who was on a high-school graduation trip who disappeared, never to be seen again. There are some eerie parallels there.

And Van Der Sloot, the guy she was last seen with, has been the source of a lot of controversy. Right now he is accused of murder in South America. But it`s been hell for her family.

And I have to ask you Dylan, we all know that, in the wake of Natalee`s disappearance, the relationship between Aruba and the United States reached an all-time low. There are calls for a boycott of Aruba.

Is this a sort of a situation now where they`ve got an American suspect and who is suspect in the disappearance of an America woman that they`ll go, "Wow, we`re going to get this guy," because in a way it kind of -- it shows the world in their minds maybe that, oh, it wasn`t about the people of Aruba. It was about the fact that somebody disappeared and almost sort of relishing the idea of having an American suspect.

HOWARD: I think they`re under intense pressure, especially with what happened to the Natalee Holloway situation. But what`s more, the fact that Gary Giordano wasn`t released when he had that coronary recently, suggests that the law-enforcement authorities need to take it seriously, are taking it seriously despite the fact that they have little evidence. They don`t have a bloody print that people had suggested they had. They don`t have a body. It is a circumstantial case. They`re building around that. That`s why this recreation is so important. But the fact that Gary Giordano remains in prison indicates they`re taking this, oh, so seriously.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and from what I remember of the Natalee Holloway case, in Aruba, which operates under Dutch law, to keep somebody in prison, you have to come up with more and more and more evidence every time.

HOWARD: And they don`t have it. They don`t have any in this case at the moment. All they have is circumstantial evidence against Gary Giordano.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s so bizarre to me that somebody could just say, oh, somebody just disappeared, and there`s no evidence. It`s just -- it is so -- frustrating, and it`s got to be very frustrating for Richard Forester, Robyn Gardner`s boyfriend.

OK. Jose Baez, on "The View," reveals for the first time why Gary had travel insurance. At least this is their side of the story. Check this out.


BAEZ: Earlier in a trip, several trips prior to this, he went on a cruise, and an incident happened where he had some losses where the...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An incident or like (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? I just want to know.

BAEZ: The anchor got stuck. And they ended up -- he ended up incurring several financial losses. So ever since then he started traveling with this insurance.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Richard Forester, you`re Robyn Gardner`s boyfriend. Do you buy Jose Baez`s attorney explanation for why Gary had insurance. He`s saying it`s very innocuous. It has nothing to do with the death policy that he took out.

FORESTER: Well, I really don`t know how those policies work. I have never taken one myself, so I -- it`s kind of shocking to me that there would be an accidental death policy. From what I understood, Gary opted for the higher amount and the shorter term. So that`s kind of strange to me.

I mean, I`m sure travel insurance is taken out and that`s pretty common. But to have a $1.5 million policy addition to that, that seems a bit odd to me. The accidental -- the accidental death policy...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you happy with how things are going? Are you happy, Richard? Do you feel that your girlfriend -- that there`s justice on the horizon?

FORESTER: I feel there`s justice on the horizon. I think the Arubans are doing everything that they can. I have faith in them. Again, my focus, though, is really just to do whatever I can, whatever we can to find her and deal with justice at that point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we are on top of this story, and we want to find her, too. And we want to have you on over and over again until we get the truth. Until we get answers, what really happened to Robyn Gardner.

Thank you, gentlemen, both. We`re going to leave it right there.

OK. We want to take a minute -- this is exciting -- to send out our very best wishes to HLN`s own Nancy Grace. She hits the floor tonight on the season premier of "Dancing with the Stars." I`m nervous. I`m nervous about it. I know she`s going to do great. She`s going to knock it out of park. Look at her moves. You go, Nancy. You go. You`re going to -- you`re going to win. I feel it, I feel it.

Up next, back to something very serious. Behind the scenes at the Casey Anthony trial. Bombshells from a brand-new interview Dr. Phil did with Cindy and George. This is the third in a trilogy.

We`re also taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. What do you think about Cindy and George`s explanations on everything from molestation to allegedly lying on the stand?


CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: Can someone let me -- come on!

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. You want me to talk.

CINDY ANTHONY: All right. Let me listen.

CASEY ANTHONY: Give me three seconds to say something.

CINDY ANTHONY: Go, sweetheart.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: An extraordinary "Dr. Phil" interview with Cindy and George.

CINDY ANTHONY: There is something seriously wrong with my daughter.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m getting sick right now. I can feel it.

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m almost wondering if she didn`t develop postpartum schizophrenia. Does she have a brain tumor? Were the seizures caused by stress?

BAEZ: How in the world can a mother wait 30 days before ever reporting her child?

CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.

BAEZ: It`s insane. It`s bizarre. Something`s just not right about that.

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, TALK SHOW HOST: Isn`t it possible that this is the actions of an unconscionable psychopath?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything that`s come out of your mouth is a lie. Everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not making excuses for her.

MCGRAW: I think you are.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The explosive finale to the television event of the year, George and Cindy Anthony go head to head with Dr. Thrill. Dr. Thrill? Dr. Phil. Maybe that was a Freudian slip, Dr. Phil. In round three of his uncensored interview with the parents of the most hated person in America.

Today, George shocked the world, not once but twice, stating that even though he still loves his daughter, Casey, he and Casey are through. OK? Wow. Listen to this from "Dr. Phil."


GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: If Cindy and Lee have a relationship with Casey, that`s great. I don`t think I can have that relationship again with my daughter. Maybe somewhere down the road, I might change my mind, because I do love my daughter. I don`t like what she`s done to this family.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Casey`s camp also came out swinging. Jose Baez went on ABC`s "The View" to dispute George`s claim that little Caylee died after she was drugged. Check this out.


BAEZ: I think it`s preposterous, and it certainly doesn`t surprise me that he`s making these statements now. Caylee died on a Monday afternoon. His theory is that she used -- someone drugged her to go out and party. If you live in Orlando you know there`s not very many parties on a Monday afternoon. And all they did that evening was go out and rent a video. It makes no sense.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Do you buy that? Jose Baez is saying that Caylee could not have been drugged because there aren`t any good parties on a weeknight. What? And he admits Casey went out and rented a movie. How is that disputing George`s theory?

What do you think? Give me a call right now, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight out to Levi Page, crime blogger and Internet radio host.

What do you think of Jose Baez`s explanation, Levi, that little Caylee could not have been drugged because, well, it was a Monday night, and therefore, nobody is really out partying, and she would have allegedly drugged her child to go out partying.

LEVI PAGE, CRIME BLOGGER: Well, I don`t think that Jose Baez`s statement made any sense. And he said that she went out and rented a movie. Well, she knew her child was dead, and she went out and rented a movie? I mean, there`s even something wrong with that scenario, and it speaks about how cold-blooded Casey Anthony was. Her child is dead, and she`s out renting a movie. That doesn`t help his client that much.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to get to the Dr. Phil show, because there have been some more astounding revelations on this part three of basically one, two, three episodes, a trilogy, if you will.

Watch Cindy`s incredible reaction when she is asked by Dr. Phil about whether she would allow Casey to baby-sit any future grandchildren. Check this out.


MCGRAW: You would let her baby-sit another one of your grandchildren?

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t think Casey`s evil. I don`t think Casey would allow anything to happen, especially to another child. I think Casey has suffered the loss of her daughter and is going to have to live with that the rest of her life. I think she would be extra cautious. I would not have a problem with her baby-sitting.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Casey a baby-sitter. I have to say, to me it sounds like something out after horror movie, Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist. Is this just more denial -- is this dangerous denial? When does denial become a danger?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, you know, I also wonder if this is part of what contributed to Casey`s problem. She had a mother who continued to make excuses for her, and she didn`t get the treatment that she could have used perhaps earlier on.

But clearly, Cindy is in denial. She`s feeling a lot of guilt. She`s making a lot of excuses, and she`s very invested in believing her daughter is not a danger to a child or to any other member of society. I`m not so convinced about that, I have to say.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. More on the interview with George and Cindy. Up next.



MCGRAW: My question was how do you go from what you described as just a normal happy child, cheerleader, all these things, to someone that could do that? And I want to know what y`all think there. And Cindy`s answer to that is, "Look, I think she may have a brain tumor."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now one of the most perplexing aspects of the entire Casey Anthony trial is that the opening statement by Jose Baez was a shocker. Jaws literally dropped, because we`d all heard about Zanny the nanny kidnapping, the trial. And kidnapping the baby. And then, in his opening statement Jose Baez turns around and says, "No, forget about that. That never happened. That was a lie. What actually happened was the child drowned, and George discovered little Caylee drowned in the swimming pool and then ran up to Casey and started scolding her."

So here is Cindy, on the "Dr. Phil" show. She`s revealing why the defense waited until just a couple of weeks before the trial to tell them this story, this new story of what happened to little Caylee.


CINDY ANTHONY: I was hysterically crying, and I couldn`t believe that my daughter put us all through this and that she ruined her life. That she, for three years, did not come forward and say something. And I said why? Why now? Why all of a sudden now? And he told me he wanted to tell me early on, but Casey said no.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you could see George looking at his wife there. Obviously, he doesn`t buy it. We`re going to hear that clip in a second.

But I want to go to Jayne Weintraub. You`re a criminal defense attorney based out of Miami, were very, very pro-defense. And the cynics, myself included, think, well, the reason why they waited until the 11th hour was, A, to have the element of surprise. And B, because they were going to keep the story of Zanny kidnapping the child right up until the child`s remains were found and that story became completely untenable. So then they switched to a new story.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s true Jane. Because if you remember correctly, the Zanny the nanny lawsuit had already started. And Jose had already come out and basically said, "Look, that was a lie. That`s not what happened. And this Zenaida Gonzalez isn`t the person anyway." So that`s not why he did it.

He did it, I believe, because Casey was petrified of George Anthony. Remember what Jose said, and I believe what Jose said. His opening statement was that Casey Anthony had been sexually abused by George. She was scared of him. You have seen the many faces of George. We have all seen his rage. We have all seen...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, are you saying -- Jayne, are you saying you really believe that George was there for the drowning? Are you saying that to me?

WEINTRAUB: Yes. Yes, I am. Jane, honestly? Honestly, honestly, I do. I believe that Casey Anthony had huge fight with Cindy Anthony. I believe that she left the house, stormed out that night. Caylee was already sleeping. Got up, Cindy went to work. George was on the watch. George didn`t know and didn`t realize.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what?

WEINTRAUB: And the baby was gone. But I also will tell you that what Cindy`s doing is...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne, there`s a bridge. There`s a bridge I want you to look at that`s up for sale. Jayne.

WEINTRAUB: Why don`t you believe it?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side...

WEINTRAUB: Because they`re all so credible?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because of the timing. Because of the timing of it. Even Cindy doesn`t believe that George was there. She`s just -- buying little pieces of it.

WEINTRAUB: Because George -- George...




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cindy says, "I don`t know what`s wrong with Casey, but I know she`s mentally ill." George, however, is sick of his wife`s excuses for his daughter.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t think Casey is evil.

GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I was never that one to believe a lot of the things like the drowning. I still don`t believe that.

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey wanted me to know how Caylee died.

JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: The answer is actually relatively simple. She never was missing.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I do love my daughter. I don`t like what she`s done to this family.

BAEZ: George began to yell at her, "Look what you`ve done."

CINDY ANTHONY: I was hysterically crying and I could not believe that my daughter put us all through this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Phil, continuing to grill George and Cindy Anthony and wow, the hits just keep on coming.

Good evening everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live from Los Angeles, in fact the courthouse where the Michael Jackson death trial is going to occur is right behind me. It is in jury selection right now. We expect opening statements next week.

But shock waves are still being felt from the last major murder trial, the people versus Casey Anthony. Remember in court, Casey`s mother Cindy was never asked whether she thinks George molested Casey, their daughter, which was the linchpin of the defense. But today Dr. Phil asked both Cindy and George point blank whether there was molestation of Casey by George. Watch this.


DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL": George, did you ever touch your daughter inappropriately?

GEORGE ANTHONY: No, sir I did not.

MCGRAW: Did you ever sexually molest her at any age, in any way, at any time?

GEORGE ANTHONY: No, sir I did not. I did not. I couldn`t do that and would not do that.

MCGRAW: Do you believe that?

CINDY ANTHONY: Absolutely.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Who do you believe? Give me a holler. 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Mara, Indiana, your question or thought; thank you for your patience, Mara.

MARA, INDIANA, (via telephone): Hi Jane.


MARA: My comment is just Cindy in such a total state of denial. And she is just covering up for Casey with one lie after another of her own. I know that she probably thinks that the world thinks that she is a bad person if Casey turned out to be bad but doesn`t she realize that by her lies she is making not only Casey look for guilty, but she is also making herself look bad too. And she is making herself look like she was a bad mother.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Joe Episcopo, defense attorney, your thoughts because a lot of people feel this entire Dr. Phil thing is boomeranging on Cindy in particular.

JOE EPISCOPO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, last week I made some sarcastic remarks about Dr. Phil. You might have thought I insulted the pope.

But let me be a little more straightforward about it. Look, Dr. Phil is not helping these people. He is not treating them. He doesn`t have patients. He doesn`t have an office. He is exploiting the marital and mental problems of these people for TV entertainment. And I don`t think it is all that great.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I couldn`t disagree with you more.


EPISCOPO: And one other thing --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I couldn`t disagree with you more.

EPISCOPO: I know you disagree with me. You think he`s great. But let me tell you something else. Dr. Phil could not render an opinion in any court in this country. He does not have the credentials. He couldn`t render an opinion --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He could render an opinion in the court of public opinion. He could render an opinion --

EPISCOPO: He`s not doing that. He`s not doing that.


EPISCOPO: He is entertaining you with his exploitation.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, I couldn`t disagree with you more. These are adults. They had a choice to say we don`t want to go on Dr. Phil. They chose to go on Dr. Phil. The entire nation has questions that they want to ask Cindy and George because there were questions that screamed to be asked during the trial but were not asked. So he is asking the questions. I think it is a healthy dialogue.

And Levi Page, I don`t think this is exploitation at all. The tragedy here is what was done to a little child. And the only way that little Caylee can really achieve justice is if we, as a culture, learn something about the dysfunction of families that might stop another Caylee from suffering out there. And the way we learn about that is to talk to people who are close to the situation, and their dysfunction is revealed.

I think Cindy`s denial, being revealed in all of this, frankly is a hideous glory, is a cautionary tale for everyone who might be in denial about the behavior of their own teenage child or their own young adult child. To wake up and say, hey, smell the coffee. As Dr. Phil says --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Stop being in denial about your kid because you`re not helping them. You are enabling them to become monsters," Levi.

PAGE: I agree with you. I also think that, you know, Cindy Anthony broke down on the stand during the trial when she testified for the prosecution. A lot of people started feeling sorry for her. Then we see her take the stand and lie for her daughter saying that she searched that chloroform search when she didn`t. She was at work.

Now we have her on Dr. Phil with more lies after more lies about a brain tumor, about the drowning. We even have her saying she wants Casey Anthony to be a mother, which is an astonishing statement to make when she was obviously involved in the murder of her granddaughter.

And I think that Cindy Anthony is not in denial. I think she is very manipulative. She knows exactly what she is doing. Her stories are like Casey`s stories.

The tumor, that reminds me of Zanny the nanny. All of these people that Casey made up is just like what Cindy is doing now. She`s making things up and lying as well. I think she is doing it to make herself look good, to protect her daughter. I still think she should have been charged with perjury.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you.

All right. We are going to go to Amy from California in a second. But first, another clip from Dr. Phil -- Cindy, explaining why she does not believe the molestation claims made in court that George her husband molested Casey, her daughter. Listen to this.


MCGRAW: Do you know, to the absolute core of your heart, that this man never molested your daughter?

CINDY ANTHONY: Absolutely. Because if I knew that, he would not be sitting here today because I would have either killed him myself or had him arrested. She left Caylee alone with him a lot. George baby sat quite a bit while Casey and I would do stuff.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes. Which I enjoyed so much.


GEORGE ANTHONY: Enjoyed the time with her.

CINDY ANTHONY: So for her to put her daughter in that position, I don`t believe it for a minute.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Jayne Weintraub, Cindy herself is sort of cherry picking what she wants to believe from her daughter`s defense and leaving other things behind. So oh, yes, she does believe it is an accidental drowning but she doesn`t think George was there. She doesn`t believe that George molested her daughter.

How can you believe little bits and pieces of a story and reject --

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You have to sift through -- because you have to sift through the facts. And that`s where the problem is here, Jane.

You know, two things that I got from Cindy during this interview: one is, smoke signals. She is just doing nothing but fanning the blanket and sending smoke signals to her daughter. Please call me. Please come home. It`s ok. It`s ok. She is desperate to speak with her daughter. That`s number one. That`s the message I get.

And the second message is the reason they are doing this interview is to rehabilitate themselves and their credibility and they are literally I think just trying to see if there will be a market for a movie of the week or a book. I still believe they are trying to cash in on this. I can`t I imagine why else they would have done this interview.

And so for me -- I`d sift through the facts.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know what; I don`t necessarily believe that they are trying to cash in. I do believe that they are highly dysfunctional, particularly Cindy. But I don`t believe it is with malice.

Denial is a disease. It is like alcohol or drug addiction. It is co- dependency. You confuse love with enabling somebody to do terrible things. There`s even that whole book I think, it is called, "Is It Love or Is It Co-Dependency".

It masquerades as love. And people who are co-dependent masquerade as being kind people. But in reality they are just hooked on the addict. They`re hooked on the person who takes us to dangerous places. It provides the drama that they need in life or that they feel they need in life.

And it`s just like being a drug addict or an alcoholic. They can`t help it. They are powerless over this need to clean up the mess of this other person. And in this case it`s Cindy cleaning up her daughter`s messes.

Amy, in California, your question or though Amy.

AMY, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Hi, Jane. First of all I love your show and I appreciate everything you do.


AMY: I have a daughter who`s probably a few months younger than Caylee.

This is the thing about Casey. She is, you know, crazy. She`s a sociopath. She`s selfish. If this really was a drowning or some kind of accident she would have played on it.

She would have been like, "Oh, poor me, my child is gone." You know, "Anybody who could help me."

I don`t understand how anybody could believe it was an accident and she was covering it up because any kind of good attention she could get, she would take.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Joe Episcopo, that`s the bottom line that most people react to. It`s like, well, if it really was an accident, why would she endure a murder trial.

EPISCOPO: Exactly. It doesn`t appear to be an accident. And you know, I`m not sure that Cindy`s lying about that. She said that she wanted to check out chlorophyll. I remember her testimony. Something had to do with her dogs having a problem. She checked out chlorophyll and chloroform came up.

So she wanted to get up there and say, "I was looking that up." And I`m not sure that the 84 searches was ever clearly presented. So I don`t think she is lying about that. I think she did look up chlorophyll and chloroform came up on the screen.

So I -- I don`t think --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What does that have to do with her believing that Caylee drowned but not believing that George was there and sort of cherry- picking the entire defense case? Just taking what`s advantageous to her and leaving behind the rest?

EPISCOPO: You see that`s the problem with this interview. These people don`t know. They don`t have the answers that we all want. This is just a lot of baloney. We`re not getting anywhere with this interview. We`re not finding out anything other than these people are sick.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what; it`s very rare in life that you get to see denial in all its glory the way we are seeing it here where an entire group of people -- like the entire country pretty much -- is looking at somebody, who is with a straight face saying things that nobody buys. And she is saying it because she is co-dependent on her daughter and or maybe wants to -- and/or wants to get a relationship back with her daughter. And she is so unaware that she really thinks that what she is saying is believable.

And this is how it is with people who do have a disrespect for the truth; they don`t really understand the truth. It is a dead issue to them. And they just say whatever comes out of their mouth and they feel that as long as they say it with kind of a good -- a belief, as long as they convince themselves that they believe it, then everybody else should. That`s not how it works.

All right. More on the George and Cindy interview at the top of the hour with Nancy Grace, who is on "Dancing with the Stars".



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you remember the Salahis, the "D.C. Housewives" stars who crashed that state dinner at the White House?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. and Mrs. Salahi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tareq Salahi says his wife Michaele was kidnapped.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think this was a stunt?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is trying to get away from him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She apparently just took off to hang out with a guitarist from "Journey".

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Salahi advised that she did not want Mr. Salahi to know where she was.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Betrayed, blind-sided or just plain blind? The alleged White House party crashers, a couple no more; Tareq Salahi saying he feels horribly betrayed.

He has filed for divorce from his wife of eight years, "Real Housewives of D.C." star Michaele Salahi. Now, her husband apparently thought she had been kidnapped. Calls cops; he is hysterical. Turns out she ran off to have a hot affair with the guitarist from "Journey", Neal Schon and check out this photograph from TMZ of Michaele and Neal Schon.

Come on, you know the guy I`m talking about -- "Journey". Come on. "Journey`s" greatest hits like "Faithfully"; you remember that one. How about this one from YouTube, "Don`t Stop Believing"? Oh, I`m back in the `80s. It`s all coming back to me.

All right. Now, Tareq`s found comfort in a very unlikely friend; Lindsay Lohan, the troubled star let, who we hope is doing better these days, but Lindsay`s dad, Michael Lohan. I`m so excited that you are joining us tonight, Michael. And of course, there we see your daughter, who is with you. No, it`s not. She is with an attorney. She`s not with you right there. But there she is getting out of a car, going into court.

Michael, I hope Lindsay is doing well. I appreciate you joining us again to talk this time about the Salahis. Now, here`s what I don`t get. You were with -- hanging out with Tareq. Is that how you pronounce it? I`m heard it pronounced 16 different ways. Which is it?

MICHAEL LOHAN, FATHER OF LINDSAY LOHAN: Tareq. I believe it`s Tareq. At least I call him Tareq.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve been hanging out with him. What can you tell us about his feelings of betrayal and his pain? He was actually on television crying. Is that for real or is that kind of show?

LOHAN: You know Jane, listen, when we did "Celebrity Rehab", there was a little indifference with regard what was going on -- what was going on with my apartment and stuff, but this guy is a good guy. And I really don`t believe that he is -- I believe he was put up to a lot of things that happened.

I received a phone call from Gina Rodriguez (ph), of DV Talent Group who manages both Tareq and myself and she was very concerned about him. She is the kind of manager that really cares about her clients. She said, Michael, she said, he is having a really hard time. Is there anything you can do since you are in D.C.? I was in D.C. for the Prism Awards, which is the awards for different kind of -- the addiction community. I said sure.

I said, you know, forgiveness is the biggest part of my life. And I think that, you know, making amends is a big part of our program, so to speak. So I did get in touch with him. And it`s a shame because everything befell upon him all at once. I mean the poor guy, his wife left him. He had no idea where she was. I didn`t know what to believe at the beginning, but it was true.

He had to deal with the whole refinancing of his house, of his vineyard. His dog just passed away.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought that was bankruptcy. I didn`t think it was a re-fi. I thought it was bankruptcy.

And before you add to that question -- check out this clip from E!`s exclusive interview with Tareq and then we`ll talk.


TAREZ SALAHI, HUSBAND OF MICHAELE SALAHI: Michaele used to always tell me that she would never want to date a rock star like Neal Schon because of the lifestyle. The lifestyle of there is always cheating, there`s always -- you know, the guys are doing these things back stage. She always told me, she never wanted to be associated with that.

I mean Neal really should be ashamed of himself for doing this, you know. This was a beautiful marriage we had. And you know, I was just blind-sided that it was going on for two years. I just had no idea.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you believe that, that he was blindsided, really?

LOHAN: Yes. And Jane, I have to say this, they were inseparable from the time I met them in D.C. About a year ago, or I should say about eight months ago, right up until the very end when I saw them on the set of "Celebrity Rehab". They were literally inseparable. I would never imagine anything like this would happen.

And I would imagine that -- listen, if it happened to me, I would be devastated. I mean my own relationship with Dina I saw it coming after my argument with my brother-in-law. But, you know, this poor guy, he didn`t even see anything happening. And it just was like a ton of bricks. And I`m surprised how he is handling it.

He is lucky to have Gina and people around him to help him through this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just got to say that there are unconfirmed reports that Michaele is already pitching a reality show about her life with Neal. There are claims that Tareq is aware and willing to play along. We don`t know. We cannot independently confirm.

Thank you so --



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news in the Michael Jackson case, his doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray is on trial. He says he sent large shipments of Propofol, gallons to Dr. Murray in the months before Michael Jackson died.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One thing we know about Michael Jackson, there`s going to be tremendous drama in this case.


LATOYA JACKSON, SISTER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: The world lost an incredible guy and our family; I lost a brother that you guys will never be able to understand.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. They are saying it`s the next trial of the century; in just days, we`re counting down to opening statements in the Michael Jackson manslaughter trial. And I`m here live in Los Angeles and right behind me is the building, the courthouse where this epic trial is going to take place. Check it out. Right there.

The big shocker, big shocker from today, the quote "missing prosecution witness" has been found. Turns out this guy jetted off to Thailand, but they finally found him and he`s going to come back to the United States and he is going testify. Prosecutors think this pharmacy owner Tim Lopez is a key witness because he shipped huge amounts of Propofol to Dr. Murray in the months before Michael Jackson died of acute Propofol intoxication.

Straight out to Beth Karas, who is the correspondent "In Session" on TruTV; she is right outside the court that I pointed out behind me. Beth, why is this particular witness so important to the case against Dr. Conrad Murray accused of killing Michael Jackson?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, Tim Lopez is the witness who will not only describe the quantity of Propofol that Dr. Murray was buying as you said about four gallons between April and mid-June, 2009 -- so like 2 1/2 months.

He was stockpiling it is what the state will argue to take with him to London for the six months when Michael Jackson will be performing and he would be Michael`s personal doctor probably because he wouldn`t be able to get it easily in England. He`s not licensed in England. He`s licensed in three states in the United States. So this witness will help establish that he was stockpiling the Propofol.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And didn`t he lie? Didn`t he lie about -- to Tim Lopez allegedly saying oh, I run a clinic in L.A.?

KARAS: I couldn`t hear that question. Why he what?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Didn`t Dr. Conrad Murray allegedly lie to Tim Lopez claiming that he ran a clinic. In other words justifying his need for the Propofol?

KARAS: Yes. Justifying sending it to Los Angeles, and not where he had a practice in Las Vegas as well as in Houston. He said I have a clinic in Los Angeles, he did not. The address was his girlfriend`s, Nicole Albert (ph), her apartment. She testified at a hearing. She`s expected to testify at this trial. She will describe or say that`s her signature on at least six Federal Express slips. She signed for these packages and the dates that she signed coincide with and corroborate Tim Lopez. They are approximately a day after Lopez says Murray placed the order for Propofol.

It will also show how Murray got those bottles -- all those bottles that were inside of Michael Jackson`s home. They are not labeled.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to point out, Propofol is only supposed to be used in a surgical setting, not in somebody`s house, not in somebody`s rented mansion. All right.

Thank you so much, Beth. Don`t miss JOY BEHAR tonight. Jermaine Jackson will open up about the trial in his new book, "You`re Not Alone"; "THE JOY BEHAR SHOW" tonight at 10:00 Eastern only on HLN.

And we`re rooting for Nancy on "Dancing with the Stars".



JERMAINE JACKSON, BROTHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: This is all BS. It`s all BS. Dr. Murray is the fall guy and it`s all focused on this while they do something else. Dr. Murray is the fall guy. This is (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s remember what this case is all about. Michael Jackson performing just days before his death; getting ready for his big come back tour, "This Is It". Here`s a video from AEG.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Jackson is a dichotomy. He`s performing there just days before his death like a teenager. Even the outtakes show that he`s just spry and coordinated and dancing and yet he`s this insomniac who has a drug dependency. It doesn`t make sense. We`re going to try to make sense of it in this trial.

"NANCY GRACE", next.