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Day One of the Michael Jackson Death Trial

Aired September 27, 2011 - 21:00:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go, the Michael Jackson death trial day one. The state tees off, a scathing salvo from the prosecution, and he defendant breaks down, tears from Conrad Murray at Michael Jackson`s speech from the grave. A secret recording of Jackson`s garbled voice floods the courtroom.

And the trial outside the trial, the court of public opinion in downtown Los Angeles. It`s day one of the trial. Let`s get started.

Welcome. And we are live tonight. As I said, it is day one of the Conrad Murray trial here in Los Angeles, and both sides came out swinging. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The trial of the century finally under way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The scene outside the courthouse unlike anything I`ve seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A really wild scene. You see, over here, you`ve got a lot of supporters of Dr. Conrad Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are Michael Jackson supporters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Opening statements in the trial for the man accused of killing Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prosecution came out like gangbusters.

DAVID WALGREN, PROSECUTOR: Conrad Murray repeatedly denied care, appropriate care to his patient, Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense trying to sell how Dr. Murray wasn`t responsible.

ED CHERNOFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Michael Jackson self-administered a dose of propofol in his body that killed him instantly. And he did this when Dr. Murray was not around.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most shocking moment, the playing by the prosecution of this voice recording of Michael Jackson, where he is so completely and totally out of it.


PINSKY: The Conrad Murray trial began with the prosecution playing a chilling and never before heard recording of Michael, apparently sounding intoxicated. Listen to this.


MICHAEL JACKSON: We have to be phenomenal. When people leave this show, when people leave my show, I want them to say, I`ve never seen nothing like this in my life. Go. Go. I`ve never seen nothing like this in my life. Go. Go. I`ve never seen nothing like this. Go. It`s amazing. He`s the greatest entertainer in the world. I`m taking that money, a million children, children`s hospital, the biggest in the world, Michael Jackson`s children`s hospital.


PINSKY: Wow! That was recorded just weeks before Michael`s death and it was recorded on Dr. Murray`s cell phone. The defense fired back, basically saying Michael killed himself. They claim Michael took eight lorazepam -- that`s the medication Ativan -- he`d take eight of those pills the day he died, and then washed the lorazepam down with his "milk" -- that`s right, propofol -- without Conrad Murray`s knowledge. Listen.


CHERNOFF: When Dr. Murray left the room, Michael Jackson self- administered a dose of propofol that with the lorazepam created a perfect storm in his body that killed him instantly.


PINSKY: Conrad Murray wept as the defense described him as a caring doctor who saved people`s lives.

I`m going to help you figure this all out. What are these different medications? Why would an addict mix them? Who is to blame for this tragedy?

Going straight to my guests. Coming here soon, I guess he`s caught in traffic, is a friend of Michael Jackson. His name is Damon Elliott (ph). I`m going to bring him right out here if he gets here in time. Again, we`re live. Also, attorney Mark Eiglarsh, and host "In Session" on truTV Ryan Smith.

Ryan, lay it out for us. What happened today in court?

RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Oh, it was a big day, Dr. Drew. It -- talk about powerful opening statements. The prosecution started by doing just what you mentioned, trying to say that Dr. Murray`s reckless behavior, that his ability to not keep the standard of care going for Michael Jackson led to Michael Jackson`s death.

And two powerful images we got. Not only that bit, that recording you showed of Michael Jackson, but also the visual of Michael Jackson in his prime and also Michael Jackson in death. They showed a picture of Michael Jackson lying on a gurney dead at that point in the trial just to show that this is how he was with Conrad Murray`s treatment. The family right there...

PINSKY: Ryan? Ryan...

SMITH: ... in the second row to see all of this.

PINSKY: I`m going to interrupt you...


PINSKY: I`m going to interrupt you at this point because we actually have those images now. I want to warn people they are disturbing, so -- but this is -- this is what we`re dealing with here. This is the reality of these circumstance. Michael on June 24th, 2009, dancing and looking healthy, and a graphic image of the singer dead on a hospital gurney just one day later. You see it there. It really is just -- oh, it`s just heart-breaking when you look at that.

Ryan, back to you. You know, this seems like they were -- both sides were swinging, both the defense and the prosecution. A few moments ago, we heard the defense talking about this perfect storm. Do you think the jurors bought that?

SMITH: I think there was some reasonableness to their argument. And what he tried to say, the defense attorney, Ed Chernoff, was that Dr. Conrad Murray was watching Michael Jackson, left the room, and that Michael Jackson acted so quickly that by the time he came back, there was nothing he could do for Michael Jackson.

So you know, there were a lot of things that might have been missing from that argument. We always talk about, Why was that setup even in Michael Jackson`s home? Why was he even giving him propofol? The defense made a point that Michael Jackson died because Dr. Murray stopped giving him propofol. But Drew, as you know, he gave him propofol that night.

So there were some areas of their argument that just left you scratching your head. But overall, we`re talking about reasonable doubt here. If the defense can introduce, Hey, there`s another theory that doesn`t involve Dr. Murray, that`s an acquittal.

PINSKY: Well, and Ryan, let me -- again, one of my jobs here as physician is to make sense of this for our viewers. And let me say something that the defense said a few minutes ago -- I heard them say -- that is simply false. He made this case that it was a perfect storm of the lorazepam with the propofol, that it killed him instantly. No way. No way!

The way that works is that`s a bad combination, and Dr. Murray should not have had those medicines even in the same room together, but it suppresses respiration. People stop breathing. And over minutes or hours, that suppressed respiration leads ultimately to a cardiac arrest. It`s not like they die suddenly. That does not happen. So already in my mind, the defense is somewhat suspect.

Now, Conrad Murray admits he was giving Michael small amounts of the drug propofol, but more than four gallons of the drug was shipped to Dr. Murray at a different address. It`s crazy. Listen to this.


WALGREN: Twenty-five milligrams equals 2.5 ccs or 2.5 milliliters. In your standard 10-cc syringe, this is how much propofol Conrad Murray is admitting to giving on June 25th. But the evidence also shows, as I already discussed, that from the time of April 6th, 2009, to Michael`s death, over 155,000 milligrams of propofol had been shipped to Nicole Alvarez`s apartment. But according to Conrad Murray, he gave just 25 milligrams that night.


PINSKY: OK, so the defense says Murray had no idea Michael was self- medicating. Yet we heard that recording on his own cell phone -- suspicious. Conrad says he thought he was weaning Michael off propofol, he`d given him just this small amount.

Mark Eiglarsh, what is your take on all of this?

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Wow! The defense is doing a good job with some very challenging facts, and it may come down to the jury saying, All right, the defense theory is possible. Prosecution theory is possible. However, here`s what something is uncontroverted. The perfect storm was created before he left the room. He created it! Conrad Murray. And we saw the images of a bedroom and then a hospital.

Propofol belongs in a hospital, not in a bedroom setting. He created that perfect storm by not having any other eyeballs watching Michael Jackson as he lay there with this powerful drug inside of him without having the requisite emergency equipment available, with him being on the telephone, we learned, for 45 minutes during this administration of this drug.

So the perfect storm, the jury could easily find, was created way before Michael Jackson allegedly self-administered the lethal dose.

PINSKY: Interesting, Mark. Yes, I have to agree with you on that. I mean, he`s a cardiologist. He knows that propofol is a dangerous drug. He knows that it`s something we don`t use outside of a hospital. And yet there it was, and now he`s putting the blame back on the patient.

Again, something I want to repeat probably throughout the upcoming weeks, is even though we`re trying to understand Michael Jackson and his motives and what was going on with him medically and psychiatrically, he`s not on trial. Dr. Murray`s on trial. We get that.

Now, we`ve got tons more this hour, but you can get full 24-hour coverage at

Coming up: Who else will take the stand? And was Conrad Murray trying to cover his tracks? The prosecution points out what they believe proves Michael`s doctor didn`t even try to save the singer.


WALGREN: Conrad Murray figuratively and literally abandoned Michael Jackson on June 25th, 2009.




KENNY ORTEGA, MICHAEL JACKSON`S CHOREOGRAPHER: He said I should stop trying to be an amateur doctor and psychologist and be the director and allow Michael`s health to him.


PINSKY: Welcome back. Tonight, it is day one of the Conrad Murray trial. The first witness called was Jackson`s "This Is It" tour choreographer, Kenny Ortega. He read to the court an e-mail he wrote voicing his concerns about Michael Jackson`s health. Listen to this.


ORTEGA: "My concern is, now that we brought the doctor into the fold and have played the tough love `now or never` card, is that the artist may be unable to rise to the occasion due to real emotional stuff. He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling and obsessing. Everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated."


PINSKY: Ortega testified that when he approached Murray, the doctor simply told him to butt out, that he was the doctor.

Let`s go to my guests. Mark Eiglarsh back with me. Now in the studio, Judge Larry Seidlin, who had presided over the Anna Nicole Smith trial -- it was a custody case, actually. And Ryan Smith is also back.

Ryan, will the fact that Dr. Murray appears to have been a bad doctor, let`s say, not keeping up to the standards of practice -- will that even matter, or will it all come down to who gave him that fatal dose, that final dose?

SMITH: Oh, the prosecution wants it to matter. They spent a lot of time this morning talking about one word, "abandonment," that he failed in that standard of care by abandoning Michael Jackson. So if they can paint the picture, kind of like Mark was doing earlier -- why was this setup going on in his home instead of a hospital? Why were all these things happening that were below the standard of care? Then administering the fatal dose is the icing on the cake.

And what they`re trying to also show, especially through Kenny Ortega, was that Michael Jackson was hopeful for the future. He was looking forward to doing movies, even a 3D movie on the song "Thriller." So this was a man who never would have taken the chance with his own life by self- administering propofol. That was a big theme they tried to hit on today.

PINSKY: But Ryan, you`re an attorney, so I`m a little confused by the focus on abandonment. Abandonment suggests a malpractice issue, not a criminal issue, or maybe an ethical issue, but again, not a criminal issue. Are they just trying to build a case that Conrad Murray is the type of person that might be able to do something like administer a fatal dose to somebody?

SMITH: Well, I think that`s part of it. What they`re doing is -- involuntary manslaughter deals with recklessness, so it`s almost as if Conrad Murray, they`re trying to say, might not have been doing something illegal, but his conduct was so grossly negligent that it was reckless, and that recklessness caused Michael Jackson`s death.

So by saying he was doing all these things that failed Michael Jackson in terms of the standard of care, abandoning Michael Jackson, not looking at him when he gave him this powerful anesthetic, not staying in that room...

PINSKY: Got it.

SMITH: ... all of those things were so grossly negligent that they caused his death.

PINSKY: So it`s malpractice to the point of negligence.

Now, the AEG producer and concert promoter was concerned when Michael wanted to hire Conrad Murray as his personal physician. Listen to this.


PAUL GONGAWARE, MICHAEL JACKSON CONCERT PROMOTER: I didn`t know Dr. Murray at all, but we were going to London, and I -- my preference would have been to hire a doctor in London who was licensed in London that was connected there in case there were any problems, he knew everybody in town, knew how to get things done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you express those feelings to Mr. Jackson?

GONGAWARE: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what was Mr. Jackson`s response?

GONGAWARE: He said, This is a machine. We have to take care of the machine. This is what I want. I want Dr. Murray.


PINSKY: Judge, this whole situation of a patient dictating their care is deeply concerning to me, and then a doctor allowing that. And you know, there`s been speculation, or if fact, we have evidence that there`s addiction going here. It`s almost like an addict keeping his drug dealer with him on the road.


PINSKY: It`s deeply concerning.

SEIDLIN: It concerns me, too. What happens is it`s supposed to be a doctor/patient relationship. Here it became employer/employee.


SEIDLIN: They take this guy, this Dr. Murray -- he made about $150 bananas for the whole year, $150,000. All of a sudden, they come to him, AEG, and they said, We`re going to give you that each month. This guy never saw that kind of money. He`s got $150,000 every month. I want to know where he was with all that money each month.

And what happens is Michael Jackson, as you know, begins to own him, begins to tell him what medicines he wants. And you`re the face of this case because you`re an addiction specialist. Wouldn`t you have difficulty if someone said to you they`d have to give you a million a month?


SEIDLIN: Would they own you for a million a month?

PINSKY: No, because I understand what this is. And this situation is so adulterated, so poisoned by money, by fame, by power that that`s when I start to feel bad for Dr. Conrad Murray. He walked into a situation that he should have looked at and turned and run away because once he walked in that door and signed up for this, horrible, horrible things were going to happen.

SEIDLIN: Did they buy his soul for all that dough?

PINSKY: They certainly -- I don`t know about his soul. You know, do you think that`s what they did? I hate to condemn somebody, but we are talking about murder here. I mean...

SEIDLIN: They took away his judgment. As you know, your Hippocratic oath says -- the first thing it says is, I shall do no harm. And with this $150,000 a month, why didn`t he have a whole team around him?

PINSKY: Right. That`s my -- that`s...

SEIDLIN: When he went to the bathroom and made phone calls to girls, where was the team?

PINSKY: Judge, that is the point. There should have been a team assembled. And not -- trying to go it alone with a case like this just ill serves the patient. The whole medical profession then ill serves the patient.

All right, now, the question here is who will be next on the stand. I took a look at a potential witness list and there are some names that really jumped out at me. I hope I pronounce these names right. Kai Chase, who was Michael Jackson`s personal chef. And Michael reportedly used her name as an alias when getting prescriptions. And Sade Anding -- I believe that`s the pronunciation. She was dating Conrad Murray and was on the phone with him when Michael went into distress.

Mark, who do you think should be on that stand tomorrow?

EIGLARSH: I think the second person, who he was on the phone with and didn`t tell that person to call 911. Why? There`s a lot of consciousness of guilt here. He doesn`t mention propofol when the fire rescue arrived on the scene. Why? When you get to the emergency room and they specifically ask you, What drugs did you administer to him, we need to know -- doesn`t mention propofol.

It wasn`t until several months later, when he sits down with his lawyers, after obviously carefully thinking out this whole thing and laying out the defense which is now being shown in court, does he mention propofol. Clearly, that shows consciousness of guilt. You never had anyone call 911. That looks bad.

PINSKY: Consciousness of guilt is something we`ll be discussing in more detail. Ryan, I have less than 30 seconds. You had a comment you wanted to make before we go to break?

SMITH: Yes, I think it`s both the chef and possibly Michael Jackson`s personal assistant who might be called, as well. Both were at the house that night. They can shed light not only on what happened but why 911 wasn`t called and what happened with Dr. Murray. Both two very important witnesses.

PINSKY: All right. Judge, I got to go to break. We`ll be back with you in just a second.

But you can get full 24-hour coverage of the Michael Jackson death trial at

Ahead: It is day one of the Conrad Murray trial, and already emotions are running high from attorneys, fans, and of course, Dr. Murray himself. And how it is your turn. Your calls and comments are next.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... came all the way from San Diego. And let me see your sign. It says, "Dr. Conrad Murray, my mentor, my friend, my brother, my strength."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am his administrative assistant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you work for Dr. Murray?





UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you support Dr. Conrad Murray?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a godly man. He`s a man of love. I know him personally. He loved Michael. They were friends. He is a good, gentle man, a great, outstanding doctor.


PINSKY: Dozens and dozens of people outside the courthouse with some strong opinions on the Michael Jackson death trial.

Now, I want to remind you, you can log onto to get up-to-the-minute trial updates, analysis from HLN personalities, guests and much more. So take time to check out that Web site for any further information about this case.

In the meantime, we posted this poll question on our Web site. Who is to blame for Michael Jackson`s death? And here are the results. I think it`s kind of surprising. Eighteen percent of you -- only eighteen percent -- think it was Conrad Murray. Twenty-three percent of you think it`s Michael Jackson. Just two percent of you said it was Michael Jackson`s previous doctors. Ten percent of you said it was Dr. Murray and the previous doctors. And forty-seven percent of you said it was all of the above.

So many of you have called or written to us with your questions, a lot of emotions flying high. So let`s go right to the phones. Amy in Pennsylvania, what`s going on?


PINSKY: Hi, Amy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to say that I was so taken back by the tape they played of MJ. My question is, why would a doctor let his patients get so intoxicated? And what possible reason did he have to record that for?

PINSKY: You know, I don`t know if that`s a recording that he sort of forgot was on his phone and maybe these investigators discovered, or if he kept it on his phone for some purpose. I mean, it`s something you might play back to a patient and go, Look, this is why I`m trying to wean you off. I know you don`t remember even making this call.

And why would a doctor let a patient get that intoxicated? Unless somebody were coming out of anesthesia, a doctor would not allow a patient to get that intoxicated, in my opinion, though occasionally, it does happen in spite of everyone`s best efforts.

Michelle on FaceBook writes that I said -- or "You said that addictions typically sneak up on people. Could you explain how this happens?" What I was talking about is that, you know, about 60 percent of addiction is accounted for on the basis of genetics alone. So there`s a genetic piece to this -- that sometimes when somebody is prescribed appropriately a medication -- sleeping medicine, anxiety medicine, pain medicine, the opiates -- occasionally, it sneaks up.

They find themself after weeks and weeks asking for refills, escalating their dosing, using it a little more frequently, doubling up when they shouldn`t. And no one notices -- because the patient`s refilling and refilling -- that this person now after three months has -- it`s snuck up on them and now they`re an addict.

Now, unfortunately, the medical system sometimes doesn`t serve patients very well. When that happens, they reject them as bad patients -- You manipulated this out of us -- when, in fact, what we should be saying is, Honey, get in here, we got a new problem. It`s addiction. We`ve got to handle this.

Now, we take a look next at Dr. Murray`s actions the day Michael Jackson died. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will be with us. I`ve got a lot of questions from my peers, really, and of course, Sanjay is one of those. Did the system fail him? Is it really Dr. Murray`s individual responsibility, what went on here? Were there other doctors involved? And what about Dr. Murray saying this is all his responsibility and pushing everybody else away and not assembling a team, which, frankly, would be the very appropriate thing to do with a very complex situation like this?

Stay with us. We`re going to keep addressing these issues and more.



PINSKY (voice-over): Michael Jackson paid the ultimate price for addiction, having received surgical anesthetic. I`m breaking it down with our surgeon, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. What happened that fateful night? What was Jackson`s state of mind? Was he come full of a deadly drug cocktail or did he do it to himself? Those closest to Michael Jackson take us back to that dark day.

And later, the trial outside the trial. The court of public opinion convenes in downtown Los Angeles. Crowd, claims, sky ed (ph), and supporters not just for Michael Jackson but for Murray, too. Why such strong support for the defendant?


PINSKY (on-camera): "If I don`t sleep, I will miss my rehearsal." Not my words. Reportedly the words of Michael Jackson which prompted Dr. Conrad Murray to inject him with propofol. Again, any of you or myself uttering those words, I hope you don`t receive an intravenous or intramuscular injection of an unbelievably powerful sedative. It`s wild.

Twenty-seven months later, the world is watching as the Michael Jackson death trial began unfolding today in Los Angeles. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That misplaced trust in the hands of Conrad Murray cost Michael Jackson his life.

PINSKY (voice-over): At the center of this trial, a surgical anesthetic called propofol and a cocktail of drugs administered in the hours leading up to Michael Jackson`s death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two more milligrams of midozalam. Murray says that Jackson was still awake at 10:40 when he decided to give the pop star 25 milligrams of propofol with lidocaine.

CONRAD MURRAY, MICHAEL JACKSON`S PHYSICIAN: Your honor, I am an innocent man.

PINSKY: But today, the prosecution alleged that Dr. Murray did, indeed, administer the dose of propofol that killed Michael Jackson and used the defendant`s own voice to prove their case.

MURRAY: I agreed at that time that I would switch over to the propofol.

PINSKY: But Conrad Murray`s defense team fought back alleging it was Michael Jackson that caused his own death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson swallowed eight, 2 milligram lorazepam pills. That`s enough to put six of you to sleep.


PINSKY (on-camera): Joining us to figure this out are Judge Larry Seidlin and in our Los Angeles studio right now, HLN`s Ryan Smith, also two-time Emmy winner for his reporting in Haiti, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Now, we all know that Dr. Murray gave Michael Jackson propofol. Murray says it wasn`t enough to kill him, but his action that day, so much of what he did that day is shocking. Listen to this.


DAVID WALGREN, PROSECUTOR: When specifically asked, what have you been giving him, what has he taken, the paramedics were told lorazepam. Specifically asked what had been administered, they were told lorazepam. And Conrad Murray never once mentioned the administration of propofol during his entire dealings with these emergency medical personnel.


PINSKY: And Dr. Gupta, out to you. He also didn`t mention the midozalam, the versed, and I got to tell you, I receive d-- he received something like 6 milligrams of that. I`ve been received 2 milligrams of that for a procedure, and I was out for almost 36 hours after that. So, he got that, the lorazepam, and it`s just the combination is stunning to us as physicians, is it not?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR CNN: It is. I mean, and you know probably, you know, how some people will escalate doses, Drew. You know what I mean? That certainly can happen. But even if you take that into account to your point, you`re mixing these medications and then you`re adding this, you know, medications typically used to induce general anesthesia on top of all that.

In hospitals, perhaps, with, you know, breathing kit around and you need to establish an airway, monitor a patient. You could monitor somebody like this, but in this home and this situation, it`s just bizarre.

PINSKY: You could argue that any one of those three medications should have had that kind of monitoring around. The propofol is just so extremely bizarre, because I personally have never seen it outside of a hospital, have you?

GUPTA: No. I have never. And I don`t know, Drew, when you first heard about this, when I first heard that this was a situation propofol had been used in his home, I actually didn`t believe it. I thought that maybe somehow that story had, you know, gotten wrong somewhere along the way. So, I had never heard of this.

And, you know, I went back and looked into some of the specific rules and regulations. They, obviously, you know, the FDA says it should be used by somebody who`s trained to use it. You should have the monitoring equipment in place. But as you know, it`s not a controlled substance.

You walk through hospitals, propofol is actually sitting out, unlike narcotics which are often locked and you have to sign them up. This isn`t something people think of abusing outside the hospital. People in the hospital abused it in the past, but not outside.

PINSKY: It`s funny I was looking at the package of propofol, and it doesn`t -- it only talks about if used in a monitored setting. It doesn`t even contemplate its own package insert that somebody would ingest it orally or they would ever be used it outside of a hospital.

Now, the state has charged Conrad Murray with one count of involuntary manslaughter. The prosecution in opening statement closed with this.


WALGREN: People will ask you in no uncertain terms to return with a verdict of guilty for the solitary crime charged, involuntary manslaughter, premised on the gross negligence of Conrad Murray.


PINSKY: Judge Seidlin, we all watched the Casey Anthony case where she seemed -- some people speculated that she was overcharged. Maybe that`s why they failed in that case. Is Conrad Murray undercharged? Is this enough charge against this guy?

JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, PRESIDED OVER ANNA NICOLE SMITH CUSTODY CASE: It`s a one bullet case. The prosecutor charges Murray with one crime, the killing of another individual without malice. And what he does, the prosecutor, it`s interesting. He lays out like in a Chinese restaurant, pick out any one you want out of this, column A, column B, column C.

He says there`s gross negligence. He needs gross negligence to prove this involuntary manslaughter. He says Dr. Murray didn`t tell the truth to the medics when they come. He didn`t tell that Michael Jackson had that white milk substance in him. He didn`t tell the truth when he got to the hospital, what medicines were in him.

He was grossly negligent in not having a team around him like you have stated. He needed a team. Pick any one you want. Any one element, any one act of gross negligence proves this case.

PINSKY: Judge Seidlin, a lot of people don`t know, you were a cab driver in your previous life before becoming a judge. What do you tell the average person out there trying to make sense of this, cab drivers out there shaking their head, going how could this possibly happen?

SEIDLIN: I tell the people, would you buy a taxi cab from the first two witnesses that testified today, those promoters from AEG? You remember the play "The Producers" you and I saw as kids?


SEIDLIN: Was it set up for Michael Jackson that this play would fail, that this promotion would never take place? You are in good shape. I saw you without your jacket earlier, and I work out, too. We`re trying to stay alive. Michael Jackson, you`re going to have to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge. There`s no way he was doing 50 shows in Europe the condition he was in.

PINSKY: Either way they win. Like "The Producers," if succeeds they win, if they fail, they win.

SEIDLIN: They succeed in the failure, unfortunately, in Michael Jackson`s death, because a lot of people didn`t return those tickets. They had a ticket for a concert that never took place by Michael Jackson. They made movies already from the rehearsals.

PINSKY: They made a lot of money. Ryan, I got to get reaction from you real quick. You had something you wanted to say. Go ahead.

RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Yes. Drew, that`s a very good point, but understand, the defense here is saying something that I think might benefit their case. They`re saying Michael Jackson wanted this so bad. He wanted this tour to come off. He asked for ten more shows in Princeton at that London theater, because he wanted to reestablish himself in this arena as this great performer.

And they`re saying that`s why he might have done something he shouldn`t have done, not that he purposefully wanted to harm himself, but they`re trying to outline that hey, folks, if you can see a situation here where Michael Jackson might have taken this to get to sleep just so he could do this performance because he wanted it so bad, then folks, that`s an acquittal.

That`s not involuntary manslaughter. That`s a possible solution to what happened here. That`s what they`re trying to prove, and that`s what they`re trying to layout for the jury.

PINSKY: All right. I get it. But, again, the magnitude of what we call the negligence and the sort of abandonment of care and sort of not keeping up with standard of practices, I want to show you, guys, something that Sanjay did. Sanjay, you did a piece when you went out into an operating room and observed a patient getting propofol. You`ve got a clip of that here. Let`s play that.


GUPTA: So, we are here inside the operating room with Dr. Hershon (ph). He`s a chief of anesthesiology here. Propofol is a medication he uses all the time.

So, is this it right over here?


GUPTA: It looks like milk of amnesia, they call it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Milk of amnesia.

GUPTA: OK. So, the propofol --


GUPTA: So, watch this going. Take a look at his eyes how quickly this --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deep breath, Hansen (ph). Doing great. You may feel a little burning, OK?

GUPTA: Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.


PINSKY: And out. That Propofol puts people out so reliably, but that wasn`t the only substance Michael Jackson received. Like I said, I just had a procedure and I received one-third of the amount of the midazolam that he had, and I was out for an hour and took me 36 hours to sort of regain my senses.

This is just so outside of the standard, is it not? And when he says things like he wanted to wean him off, can we believe that, Sanjay?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it`s interesting. I really poured through this today, Drew, you know? And what you find is that in the previous three days prior to Michael Jackson`s death, he outlines, again, this is his testimony, outlines what he gave Michael Jackson. One of the three days, he said he gave no propofol at all, which is unusual, because, I guess, Michael Jackson did take propofol on a pretty regular basis.

But you know, the point that you made earlier that there was so much propofol that had been sent to Alvarez`s apartment, I think it was 155,000 milligrams they say, why have that much? This was his only patient. Michael Jackson was his only patient. If you have that much propofol that you`re ordering, it doesn`t seem to reconcile with someone who`s also trying to wean the patient off of the substance.

PINSKY: Well, Sanjay, I got to interrupt you before I go to break, one last thing. You`re saying -- I wasn`t aware of this -- that he was getting it on a regular basis, and if so, who was doing that? Does before Conrad showed up?

GUPTA: Possible even before Conrad showed up. In fact, you know, a couple of years ago, even when I was investigating this when this happened, I was tracking -- tracked down an anesthesiologist that worked with Michael Jackson, gone on tour with him in the past that talked about the fact that he would put down Michael Jackson every night, and then bring him back up every morning, intimating that he was giving him medications like propofol to do just that.

So, you know, I think there`s growing evidence that this is something that was ongoing for Michael Jackson, probably, longer back than we think or realize.

PINSKY: I, for me, as a physician, as an addictionologist particularly to hear that, is stunning. It`s just stunning. It`s again, what are we treating here? Insomnia is not a disease state, It`s a symptom. Are they treating depression? Are they treating withdrawal? Have they just crated a cycle of using a withdrawal for this poor guy?

Next, we`re going to hear from some of the close friends of Michael Jackson. What are their thoughts and feelings following the events of today? Stay with HLN for complete coverage of the Conrad Murray trial. We`ll be right back.


PINSKY: To the fans of Michael Jackson, this must have been a very tough day, but to those that knew and loved him, this first day must have been just heart wrenching, especially when we heard from the singer, himself.




PINSKY: Why Dr. Murray recorded and kept this is still a mystery. To discuss all this, we have magician, Majestik Magnificent, he`s a personal friend of Michael Jackson, and one of Michael`s childhood friends, producer, Damon Elliott, who is the son of Dionne Warwick.

Damon, that recording of Michael, I mean, yes, you`re sighing just, you know, when I ask you the question. What are you making of all that? How hard is it to listen to that?

DAMON ELLIOTT, CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: That`s like I`m very choked up behind that, listening to that, you know, being a friend and being in this business.

PINSKY: Damon, based on what Dr. Gupta -- Sanjay Gupta just said a few minutes ago that there were doctors take him on and off medicines at night to go to sleep. Were you aware of any of that interview?

ELLIOTT: No, I wasn`t aware.

MAJESTIK MAGNIFICENT, JACKSON`S FRIEND AND "NEVERLAND`S" MAGICIAN: You know, I wasn`t aware of that, but the thing I know that people don`t know, Michael had this thing about he trusts his people. The doctor was there for a reason. The doctor was there because Michael trusts him.

Now, people say Michael injected himself, that`s a lie, that`s not (INAUDIBLE). That`s not -- it`s impossible. Michael trusted the doctor because he felt he was safe. He was an educated doctor, a specialist, and he believed in him.

PINSKY: Well, but that`s an interesting question, can I call you, Majestik?

MAGNIFICENT: Yes. Majestik. You get to call me Mr. Magnificent.

PINSKY: Mr. Magnificent. I kind of rolls up my tongue -- I`d be called Mr. Magnificent if that were my name.



PINSKY: Listen, you know, I have to joke to lighten up the mood in here because this whole thing is so heavy and so sad.

MAGNIFICENT: It`s tragic.

PINSKY: And Damon, I`ve known you for awhile, to see you reacting like that is hard for me --

ELLIOTT: Joke still, but this is serious.

PINSKY: OK. So, here`s my question. He trusted the people around him. Should he have trusted everybody, and clearly, not so with Dr. Murray? Are there others he shouldn`t have trusted? Are others to be blamed here?

MAGNIFICENT: Michael had a lot of no good people around him. Yes, maybe, yes, but all they wanted was his money. They didn`t care about Michael, the person. If he had his father, his mother, his brothers (INAUDIBLE) Michael would be alive today.

ELLIOTT: That`s right.

MAGNIFICENT: There`s no way possible if the family would have been around and saw this BS going on.

ELLIOTT: That`s right.

MAGNIFICENT: Now, I have to go here. The doctor I talked, did my own investigation, and you`re a doctor. They told me, private doctor, it`s totally impossible for a real doctor that`s got ethics to use propofol in someone`s home.

PINSKY: That`s right. Dr. Gupta and I said the same thing. When we both heard that that was being used, first -- it`s me -- it`s like hearing an asteroid landed in the backyard. It was like, I never heard of that.


PINSKY: But if he was already on these substances which is what Dr. Gupta was saying a few minutes ago is that there were doctors or somebody putting him on something nightly, putting him under and bring him back out, that`s even more outlandish. That`s outrageous. Damon, did you have any inkling something like that was going on?



PINSKY: But here`s the deal. But here`s the deal. If somebody said you got to do this for two weeks to try to get him off, well, now, -- we have to think about that. I need a team. I need monitoring. It would be a different situation.

ELLIOTT: With the amount of money that was involved, I know, knowing you as a friend now, I know that you would surround him with the right team.

PINSKY: Of course. And that`s where this went off the rail, trying to go it alone. Completely run out -- you could say that somebody, OK, for a couple of weeks, we`re trying to get -- he`s been on it for years, we`re going to try to get him off. I never would have done it this way. Let`s be clear. Never, ever, ever.

But, if that`s what`s going on for years, I mean, that`s -- and maybe he was just in one of those states we heard him in that recording where somebody put him under that night and he picked up a telephone and started calling.

ELLIOTT: I never heard anything. I`ve never seen and heard anything --

MAGNIFICENT: Understand something.

PINSKY: I`ve only got 30 seconds. Here we go.

MAGNIFICENT: I`ve been with the family for 30 years.

PINSKY: Yes, sir.

MAGNIFICENT: I know Michael so long. I don`t believe that was true. I think that`s a rumor.

PINSKY: All right. So, that`s -- you would say no to that.

MAGNIFICENT: Give me much time. I`ve got a lot to talk about.

PINSKY: We`ll bring you back to let you talk about it. I`ve got a lot of questions for you guys, but let me just say this. I am sad. I`m so sorry that we have to drag everybody through this. And I know people that know Michael and known him a long time, good parents, they loved him.

MAGNIFICENT: The best. The best. Katherine Jackson, the best.

PINSKY: We`ll get you guys back.

Up next, we`re going to talk to one of Michael Jackson`s fans who showed support for the King of Pop outside the courtroom today. Stay with us.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN`S "ISSUES": Take a look at this. These are Michael Jackson supporters, and we`ve got a slew of them here.

Why are you here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m here to get justice for Michael Jackson.



PINSKY: Well, no court stampede like we saw in the Casey Anthony trial. Remember, the running of the humans, but there is, in fact, a circus-like atmosphere surrounding the involuntary manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray.

As the crowd started to gather, about 30 people waited in line this morning hoping for one of six spots and four standby seats in the courtroom to watch opening statements and witness testimony.

One fan who showed his support outside the courtroom today is Gregory Son. He attended Jackson`s 2005 molestation trial and hopes to score at least one seat. Welcome, Gregory. Why is it important to you? Why do you want to get in there? My understanding is you even -- you moved down here to attend the molestation trial, is that right?


PINSKY: You understand to the average person --

SON: I do get that. A lot of people don`t understand it, but those of us who do, you know, we live by it. It`s something that`s inside you, you know? It`s almost like a family member. You know, you would go that distance for your brother.

PINSKY: It feels almost like a religious fervor, like he`s a figure of, you know, this kind of importance --

SON: I think it`s really spiritual. And I believe that, you know, God plays a part in everything.

PINSKY: And Michael --

SON: Michael was a very spiritual person. And for me, personally, what I get out of it is spirituality.

PINSKY: Let me ask you this. You were outside his house, I guess, during that 2005 trial.

SON: Yes.

PINSKY: And then you subsequently were working, that brought you in proximity with him.

SON: Yes.

PINSKY: And you saw him leaving his own home regularly every day, some of the fans did. Can you tell me about that?

SON: Yes. You know, every day, he was going in and out of the house. He was very wonderful. He`d always wave and roll down the window and take pictures, give hugs, shake hands. One day, he brought all the fans pizza outside. Everybody was eating pizza with Michael Jackson.

PINSKY: And was there speculation about where he was going every time he went out of the house like that, because it seems like --

SON: Well, he kept going in and out of the house. And you know, I remember, I said to the lady I was working with, where do you think he`s going all the time? He keeps coming back and forth, and so we asked the fans. And they say, he is going to the doctor. He`s going to see Dr. Klein.

PINSKY: The dermatologist.

SON: The dermatologist. It was just -- it was very questionable why is he keep going back and forth.

PINSKY: Would he talk to you when he came back or only when he was going out?

SON: Usually, when he was going out, unfortunately.

PINSKY: Do you think that that was part of the problem or that`s when things were getting out of hand and doctors weren`t -- you know, we heard from his friends that he trusted the people that were around him. Is that where things started going off the rail do you think?

SON: Well I do believe the people around Michael Jackson, all the yes men definitely plays a part. Unfortunately, it plays a part in a lot of celebrities` lives.

PINSKY: This is a story about fame and money, isn`t it?

SON: It does play a big part.

PINSKY: Can you represent for me the basic -- the sort of the feelings of the fans today? Is it just deep sadness?

SON: We`re very, very distraught. It`s a deep, deep pain. Like I said it`s like if you lost a brother. I feel like me, like, you know, he was always a mentor for me, you know? And I feel like I lost a father almost, you know, a family member. It`s that deep. It`s unexplainable to some people, but I understand it, we understand it, you know?"

PINSKY: Well, I appreciate you representing the fans, because, again, I want to get that perspective. You`re going to be at the courtroom tomorrow?

SON: Yes, every day.

PINSKY: OK. Well, I`ll check back in with you. You`re going to be part of my little jury that I`m going to put together of fans.

All right. This case is the beginning of a long process. I want to stress again Michael Jackson is not on trial. He`s not the one on trial here, but some people will talk about his personal liabilities and who he is, and we`re going to be sorting through these issues to find out the truth, hopefully, without putting him on trial.

I don`t want people to feel like this is sitting in judgment of Michael. Ultimately, we want to drill down to the truth about what happened that night. We`re going to be here every night and try to dig into that.

Thank you for joining us tonight. I`ll see you next time.