CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Manslaughter Trial of Conrad Murray Begins

Aired September 27, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. An explosive, extraordinary day here in Los Angeles. Day one of the Michael Jackson death trial. Opening statements and some of the first witnesses.

We are listening right now to the testimony of an executive for AEG Live. But as soon as he`s done, we`re going to have complete analysis tonight on ISSUES, with some exclusive interviews.

So stay right there. Listen to testimony. We`ll be right back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you were at the Carolwood residence and Mr. Jackson was late, did you come to find out why Mr. Jackson was late for the meeting?

GONGAWARE: The meeting I think you`re referring to, yes, he was at his doctor`s, and so he showed up late to the meeting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know which doctor?

GONGAWARE: Um...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did anyone mention...

GONGAWARE: Yes, it was -- I believe it was Dr. Klein.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when Mr. Jackson arrived at the residence for the meeting, did you notice anything unusual about him?

GONGAWARE: Yes, I did, in that particular meeting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what was that?

GONGAWARE: He was a little bit off. His speech was just very slightly slurred, and he was a little slower than I`d known him to be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you, nonetheless, have a meeting with Mr. Jackson as planned?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did Mr. Jackson participate in the production meeting?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Gongaware, directing your attention to at some point in May, did you have a conversation with Mr. Jackson regarding the request of Mr. Jackson to hire a personal physician?

GONGAWARE: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did Mr. Jackson say to you?

GONGAWARE: He told me that he wanted to hire a personal physician for the tour, Dr. Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So Mr. Jackson provided you with the specific person that he wanted to hire as his personal physician, correct?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you see Mr. -- do you see Dr. Conrad Murray in the courtroom?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you please indicate where he`s seating and describe what he`s wearing?

GONGAWARE: That table, blue tie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has identified Dr. Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Mr. Jackson told you that he wanted to hire Conrad Murray as his personal position to accompany him on the tour, what was your reaction to that idea?

GONGAWARE: I didn`t know Dr. Murray at all, but we were going to London, and I -- my preference would have been to hire a doctor in London that was licensed in London, that was connected there. In case there were any problems, he knew everybody in town and knew how to get things done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you express those feelings to Mr. Jackson?

GONGAWARE: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what was Mr. Jackson`s response?

GONGAWARE: He said, "This is the machine. We have to make care of the machine. This is what I want. I want Dr. Murray."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when you say, Michael Jackson said, "This is the machine," you are holding your hands in front of you.

GONGAWARE: That`s what he was doing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So when Mr. Jackson was indicating -- when he was saying, "This is a machine," he was referring to his body, correct?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So Mr. Jackson told you his body is a machine and he wanted Dr. Murray as his personal physician, correct?

GONGAWARE: That`s right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you do as a result of Mr. Jackson`s request?

GONGAWARE: I called Dr. Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was your purpose in contacting Dr. Murray?

GONGAWARE: To try to make a deal with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you contacted Dr. Murray, did you explain that you were calling on behalf of Mr. Jackson to negotiate a deal for him to act as the personal physician on the "This is It" tour?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was Dr. Murray`s response?

GONGAWARE: He wanted to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So how did the negotiations go? Once you expressed your purpose and Dr. Murray indicated to you that he was interested in participating, what was next in the negotiation phase?

GONGAWARE: I asked him what he wanted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what did he say?

GONGAWARE: He said that he had four clinics that he had to close. He had one in Houston, one in Las Vegas, one in San Diego, and one in Hawaii. And he had to close all these clinics. He would have to lay off people, and so he said that he need $5 million a year to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So Dr. Murray`s request for compensation was $5 million a year? Correct?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was your response to that request?

GONGAWARE: I told him there was no way that was going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why did you indicate to Dr. Murray that there was no way that he would be paid $5 million a year?

GONGAWARE: Michael couldn`t afford it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was $5 million a year, in your view, a very high sum of money for a personal physician?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you feel as if you could obtain the services of a personal physician in London at a more reasonable price, than $5 million a year?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Once you advised Dr. Murray that there was no way that he was going to be paid $5 million a year to act as Mr. Jackson`s personal physician, what happened next in the negotiation phase?

GONGAWARE: I ended the negotiations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At some point after you refused Dr. Murray`s request for $5 million a year, did Mr. Jackson bring up the subject of Conrad Murray being his first personal physician -- excuse me, personal physician again?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how did that come about?

GONGAWARE: He was on his way to the rehearsals at Center Stage and his assistant, Michael Amir Williams, called me and said, "Michael wants you to hire the doctor."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the call came from Michael Amir Williams to you, correct?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you advise Michael Amir Williams the status of your negotiations with Mr. -- excuse me, Dr. Murray?

GONGAWARE: Yes, he knew from previous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So Michael Amir Williams tells you that Michael wants you to close the deal with Dr. Murray. Is that accurate?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened next?

GONGAWARE: Well, I heard Michael Jackson in the car saying, "Offer him 150, offer him 150."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what did you take 150 to mean?

GONGAWARE: A hundred and fifty thousand a month.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had you discussed this previously with Michael regarding a dollar amount for Conrad Murray? Or was this the first time that that came about?

GONGAWARE: First time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you hear Michael repeat that amount, "Offer him 150,000?" Is that yes?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you do after you had that information of $150,000 a month straight from Michael Jackson? What did you do with that information at that point?

GONGAWARE: I called Dr. Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what happened next?

GONGAWARE: You know, I said to him, "I`m authorized to offer you $150,000 a month."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was Dr. Murray`s response?

GONGAWARE: He said, "No, I really couldn`t do it for that." And I cut off in mid-sentence, and I said, "That offer comes directly from the artist." And without missing a beat, he said, "I`ll take it."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were there any further discussions between you and Dr. Murray regarding anything other than the $150,000 compensation per month?

GONGAWARE: Yes, on that call, I mean, I asked him, "How are we going to do this? You`re not licensed in London. And how is this going to work?"

And he said, "Don`t worry about the licensing. I`ll take care of that." He said he would need an assistant over there. He would need some equipment over there. And he would need some housing for he and his family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So Dr. Murray accepted the $150,000 a month?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You`re listening to the concert promoters` concerns about Dr. Murray`s involvement.

A quick break, and then we`re going to continue on with this explosive testimony and then complete analysis. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you all have a discussion amongst those of you that you describe there, Randy Philips, Kenny Ortega, Michael, Dr. Murray, Frank Salelo (ph) and yourself, what was the conversation about?

GONGAWARE: It was about, what can we do to get Mike -- to help Michael to give him everything he needs so he can get to where he has to be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What were you referring to when you say, everything he needs to get to where he needs to be?

GONGAWARE: Certainly health, you know, his health, his eating habits, his rehearsal habits, his engagement with the whole process.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you described it as that Michael was not at all defensive or upset. He was receptive to the concerns that were expressed by you all who were there?

GONGAWARE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Describe for me Dr. Murray`s tone and his attitude towards the meeting, please.

GONGAWARE: Dr. Murray was very engaged. He listened a lot. He really tried to understand the situation. And I think he did. He expressed to us that he did. He understood what needed to be done. And he knew what he had to do, as his part of this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Murray indicated to you all that he would take care of the situation?

GONGAWARE: That he -- yes, he knew what he had to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ... for purposes of the adjournment. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now would be a good time, your honor.

GONGAWARE: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, we`re going to take the evening adjournment, which means the evening recess, but the law requires that at the end of every court day, I deliver to you the following admonitions. So please be patient with me and bear this in mind.

Do not discuss this case or any of the parties mentioned here with anyone during the course of the trial. Do not form or express any opinions about the case until it is being assigned to you. Don`t visit any scene or location that may have been referenced or mentioned or involved in the case.

Don`t perform any experiments or conduct on your own or through another person any independent research or investigation on an any topics, subjects, or persons mentioned or involved in the case. Do not come into contact with any television or radio programs, newspaper or magazine articles, books or the Internet regarding any of these topics or subjects.

Do not access, on your own or through another person, any Internet Web sites, including but not limited to any search engine sites, such as Google, Ask, or Bing, or social networking sites, including but not limited to MySpace or Facebook regarding any topics or subjects mentioned or involved in the case. Nor should you text or tweet or respond or read any texts or tweets regarding any of those topics.

In and around the building, feel free to speak to other members of the jury, of course, regarding matters entirely unrelated to the trial, and if you have to bring something to the attention of the court, please bring it to the attention of the court staff.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One word, Janet. One word, Janet. Randy? Randy, a quick word. We`re on live television. Randy? I asked Jermaine, give me one word, because I knew that he wasn`t going to say a lot to me at this crucial juncture getting out of the car, and he said "justice." That was the word he said, "justice." So that is the theme. And it`s -- you know, sometimes one word tells the whole story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson`s death was a homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson self-administered a dose of Propofol.

ALBERTO ALVAREZ, SECURITY FOR MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes, he`s not breathing, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And he`s not conscious, either?

ALVAREZ: No, he`s not conscious, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A perfect storm in his body that killed him instantly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Michael!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Michael!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad Murray was working not for the best interests of Michael Jackson. Dr. Murray was working for $150,000 a month.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is not a man that could harm another human being. That is not what his soul is about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad Murray abandoned Michael when he needed help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Explosive revelations in the courtroom, and then pandemonium on the street outside. Day one of the Michael Jackson death trial did not disappoint.

Good evening, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from Los Angeles.

Michael Jackson`s family filed into the courthouse, only stopping to tell me what they hoped would come out of this trial. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, there. Hi, there. OK. Jermaine, what would you say for Michael today? Jermaine, what would you say for Michael?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Michael! Justice for Michael.

JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S BROTHER: Justice.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Justice, that`s what Jermaine has to say as he gets out of the vehicle, justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Justice. One word, but it said it all. Inside, the prosecution came out swinging, showing this stunning image from the autopsy of Michael Jackson. And we`re going to show it to you in a second.

Then, they gave the jury a taste of mind-blowing new evidence, audio of Michael Jackson under the influence of Propofol. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, POP STAR: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Conrad Murray broke down in tears. His lawyers described the friendship between him and Michael Jackson, but then the defense said Dr. Murray was not the one who delivered the deadly dose of Propofol. Watch this, the defense case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson self-administered a dose of Propofol that, with the Lorazepam, created a perfect storm in his body, that killed him instantly. When Dr. Murray came into the room and found Michael Jackson, there was no CPR, there was no doctor, no paramedic, no machine that was going to revive Michael Jackson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Which side came out on top? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to Brian Oxman, Joe Jackson`s attorney.

Brian, thank you for being here. To me, it sometimes seemed like the prosecution was proving the defense case, because the defense is saying that Michael Jackson was a desperate man. Desperate for his drugs. Desperate to keep this concert going, this tour, "This is It." And yet, it was the stuff that the prosecution played of Michael Jackson slurring his words. It seemed to make him seem more desperate.

BRIAN OXMAN, JOE JACKSON`S ATTORNEY: You have to listen to the date on which that tape was done, Jane. That was May 10.

What we didn`t hear in all of the opening statements is the day Conrad Murray started. No one wanted to talk about that date. He started on May 8. That`s the date that Paul Gongaware called him and made the deal. Conrad Murray arrived in Los Angeles on May 10. That`s the day that recording was made. And I question whether that`s Propofol or that`s the way Conrad Murray found Michael Jackson. I think he`s recording the condition in which he found him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`re saying that Michael Jackson was high then, when Mike -- when Dr. Murray arrived on the scene, and who would have gotten him high?

OXMAN: That would have been from his Demerol injections. There was the only source of medications that he had had previously.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying that -- it sounds like you`re agreeing with the defense that, hey, this was a person who was addicted to Demerol.

The defense claims this other doctor, Dr. Arnie Klein, hooked him on Demerol and that Dr. Murray walked into this terrible situation. Let me play this prosecution audio recording, which I think is fascinating. It was recorded on Dr. Murray`s iPhone, and you can listen to Michael Jackson on May 10 when Dr. Conrad Murray arrives on the scene. We`ll play a little of it for you after the break. We`re going to play this and we`re going to analyze it, because Michael Jackson is slurring his words so badly.

But you just heard Brian Oxman reveal something new. That this wasn`t on Dr. Conrad Murray`s watch. It was the first day that Dr. Conrad Murray had shown up. So maybe Dr. Conrad Murray wants to establish, "Hey, this is how I found this guy."

We`re taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Next, Michael Jackson fans and Dr. Murray`s pastor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to the voice of Michael Jackson on May 10, 2009.

M. JACKSON: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That is Michael Jackson, according to the prosecution, and Brian Oxman tells me that is right around the time that Dr. Murray started treating Michael Jackson.

So I want to go to Dr. Lewis Logan, Conrad Murray`s pastor.

OK, he arrives on the scene. That`s how Michael Jackson sounds. How can you justify giving somebody like that, who seems clearly to be addicted to something, more drugs, including Valium, Ativan, Versed, Lidocaine, and of course, Propofol?

DR. LEWIS LOGAN, CONRAD MURRAY`S PASTOR: Well, the problem is who said he gave it to him on that particular day? Who said he administered the drugs at that particular moment? And that he is -- what you hear is the result of Dr. Murray`s actions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I`m saying that this is who Michael Jackson was. Dr. Conrad Murray videotaped him, audiotaped him, established that he is slurring his words.

LOGAN: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s hooked on something. How do you then justify, in the months that follow, giving him all these drugs?

Dr. Murray said, according to this defense team, he`s trying to wean him off the drugs. But yet he ordered 155,000 milligrams of Propofol, even as he`s claiming that he`s trying to wean him off the drugs. That`s what I don`t get, Pastor.

LOGAN: That`s what`s going to be brought out, I would hope, and I would suppose, in these court proceedings. Because it`s inconclusive. I mean, just to go at the beginning of the treatment, and not know what he did on May 10, 11, 12, 13, whatever, and then to see the end results of his untimely demise. There`s just so many question marks there. It`s up for conjecture.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Quickly, what are your thoughts?

OXMAN: You just heard from Paul Gongaware, testify that he first called Conrad Murray in early May of 2009. You also heard that part of this 155,000 dollars -- milligrams of Propofol was ordered in April. April 6 and April 28. Excuse me. Those weren`t for Michael Jackson.

The prosecution is laying out a case here, and it`s kind of mind- boggling to me, Jane. It doesn`t make sense.

I mean, here I am, very critical of Dr. Murray, but what Jermaine Jackson said, "I want justice. I don`t want flimflam." I don`t understand how you can order Propofol in April for a doctor who says he was hired in May. It doesn`t make sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, you know, it`s fascinating, because we are actually getting an interesting take here. Usually, everybody that we get on has sort of a pro-prosecution bias, because they are either former prosecutors or they are defense attorneys who are kind of jealous that they don`t have the case that this defense attorney has.

But a lot of times they`re wrong. Look at Casey Anthony. OK, all the people said the prosecution did a fabulous job, and they were wrong.

And in this case, everybody`s saying the prosecution did a fabulous job, but they may very well be wrong. Because it seems to me that the prosecution could be proving the defense case by playing this video, sort of proving that Michael Jackson is a desperate -- was a desperate guy who was hooked and who would do anything to get the drugs and may have, in fact, injected himself.

More next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson literally put his life in the hands of Conrad Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That misplaced trust in the hands of Conrad Murray cost Michael Jackson his life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is not a man that could harm another human being.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In his own words, his purpose for being there was to put Michael to sleep with Propofol.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He loved Michael. They were friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad Murray never once mentioned the administration of Propofol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way that Dr. Murray would pump Michael Jackson full of Propofol, sufficient for major surgery, and walk out that room. It`s not going to happen. That`s not the doctor Dr. Murray is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Big day today: opening statements in the Michael Jackson death trial. We`ve heard from the prosecution. The defense claiming today, in a blockbuster move, that Michael Jackson had been hooked on Demerol by his dermatologist, Dr. Arnie Klein, who is invited on this show, and his attorney -- who I think we`re going to have on tomorrow -- to give their side at any time. But the defense is claiming that, wow, Dr. Murray is dealing with somebody he didn`t know was hooked on Demerol, and it was the Demerol that gave him the insomnia because he couldn`t sleep, because he was on Demerol and withdrawing from it.

Listen to this -- the defense case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson was suffering from the Demerol withdrawal that he was -- his insomnia was as a result; partly, at least, as a result.

Now, Michael Jackson told Dr. Murray that his insomnia was a result of his mind always racing, always moving, always producing. He just couldn`t keep still. It was the genius in him. And perhaps, partly that was true. We know about people like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, the defense is insisting that, well, it`s a Demerol defense. What can I say?

I want to bring in my exclusive interview tonight with Raymone Bain, who many times I have tried to get in touch with to get information about the Michael Jackson case, dating back many years. Raymone Bain was Michael Jackson`s spokeswoman, his manager. She traveled the world with Michael Jackson; knows him probably better than almost anybody else.

Raymone, thank you so much for joining us tonight and it`s great to see you again. What do you make of this Demerol defense? Essentially, the defense saying, hey, we didn`t know that Michael Jackson was this Demerol addict and Dr. Conrad Murray is treating him in a vacuum, not realizing that he`s gotten Demerol from somewhere else. The Demerol is giving him the insomnia, so he`s really treating Michael Jackson in a vacuum.

RAYMONE BAIN, GENERAL MANAGER FOR MICHAEL JACKSON: Well, Jane, thanks for having me on. And let me just say, I`m just appalled at everything I heard today, period. I`m appalled at the proceedings. And I want to say before we start, I want to send my love and my concern out to Mr. and Mrs. Jackson. It has to be absolutely egregious to be sitting there, to relive again what has happened to your son.

To lose a child is a horrible, horrible thing. And I have gone through several deaths in 2009 (INAUDIBLE), Mr. Jackson, my mom. It is not a pretty sight for us to be sitting here, hearing all of this again.

With that said, let me just state that I have never seen anything quite like this before. I don`t want to hear anything about the Demerol addiction.

I don`t want to hear anything, because let me just say that I have to agree with the prosecutor, with him having said that it was a misplaced trust. Here we have a doctor who, I think, hearing everything today he was led by greed and the control for power and wanting to have 15 minutes of fame. The whole thing to me is just disgusting.

You have a doctor who does not use any care at all in administering any kind of professional responsibility for his client. And I`m telling you the truth. I find it nauseating. I listened intently to both sides today.

And for a doctor -- let`s just say, if the defense is true, and there is a Demerol problem or/and the doctor felt that there was some other kind of problem that Michael Jackson had. Why then continue to administer Propofol? Why administer Propofol in an uncontrolled setting? Why administer Propofol and you don`t have the right equipment? Why administer Propofol without even reaching out to his family or his attorneys or those people who are around, who would have some kind of control and some kind of influence.

And let me just say this too. I have heard from so many people in the entertainment industry today, and the prevailing question is, Raymone, who the hell was in charge? Where was management? Why was a doctor able to come in and out as he was? Why was a doctor allowed to stay in a house like he was? Why was a doctor given the freedom to come in and out and bring in these kinds of drugs? Where was management?

So, you know, there are too many questions here left unanswered. Not just the doctor and just get logical reasoning --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me jump in for one second. Getting to your point, Kenny Ortega, the choreographer/director of "This Is It" thought something was terribly wrong with Michael Jackson after he showed up cold and chilled and out of it at a rehearsal June 19th just six days before he died, and Kenny wrote an e-mail expressing his concerns. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNY ORTEGA, PRODUCER OF MICHAEL JACKSON`S 2009 TOUR (voice-over): He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling, and obsessing. Everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated. If we have any chance at all to get him back in the light, it`s going to take a strong therapist to help him through this as well as immediate physical nurturing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, so, Raymone, Kenny Ortega wrote an e-mail and they had a meeting the next day and he says that Dr. Conrad Murray scolded him and said, "Stop playing doctor. Stop playing psychologist." Basically, "I`m in charge here, I`m the doctor, and I`ll take care of Michael Jackson."

BAIN: You know, Jane, I`m concerned about a number of things because Mr. Ortega was on "LARRY KING LIVE", your colleague, several days after Michael Jackson died stating that he was hunky-dory, he was well. There was no problem, he was in great shape, you know. He was doing better than he had ever been.

So I hear this testimony today, we hear that, and the family hears that, two years ago and then let`s fast forward, and now we are hearing about e-mails that are being disseminated amongst the staff and being distributed here and there. And I mean, we`re just wondering, who allowed Michael Jackson to deteriorate like this? This is benign --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he`s an adult.

BAIN: This is benign neglect. I`m sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to say this --

BAIN: I`m sorry, but when you have people around --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s not a child, though. He`s an adult.

BAIN: He`s not a child, but there`s clearly a problem and that problem should have been dealt with in a controlled, professional environment. Not at a home --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what was clearly his problem? What was clearly his problem?

BAIN: And let me just say this. Let me -- his problem was --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you. You say --

BAIN: -- the fact that he was being alienated from all of the people, including myself, that could have come in and help him. And I`m not being self-serving, but I`m telling you. Not a lawyer, not his advisers, not his consultants, not his mom, his dad, his sisters or his brothers or Brian Oxman, who was just there on with you, or Tom Mesereau or anyone else who Michael Jackson had any confidential trust in were given access to him. Every time we had a telephone number for Michael Jackson, it was changed.

Now, yes, he is an adult. But one has to look at the circumstances and the environment of which he was. And in order to look at justice for Michael Jackson --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But can I jump in, Raymone?

Bain: -- somebody should have been contacted and Michael Jackson should have been hospitalized and there should have been professional treatment for him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But isn`t it possible -- isn`t it possible that he`s an adult who happens to be a drug addict who didn`t want help, as so many drug addicts, and I speak as a recovering alcoholic, don`t. They want to be left alone to do their thing and they surround themselves with what is called lesser companions in 12-step, because they just want to keep doing what they`re doing. They don`t want to change. The drug has taken them hostage.

BAIN: Well, let me just say, I was around Michael Jackson for seven years. Michael Jackson moved to Washington, D.C. He was in Washington, D.C. For six months. I talked to Michael Jackson tons of times on the phone. I was in his presence. He was in my house. I was in his house. I traveled around the world with him.

And I`m going to be honest with you, my blood curdled when I heard that tape today. I have never heard Michael Jackson`s voice nor have I been in his presence when, allegedly, he was in that kind of shape.

Now, my next concern is, did they do any forensics on that tape? I`m going to be honest with you. That does not sound like the Michael Jackson I know. Michael Jackson --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s what I said.

BAIN: -- he had -- I`m telling you, Jane. I was there with him, as you know, for six months in Santa Maria. He was immensely stressed. When he walked out of that courtroom and he went to Bahrain, of which I talked to him almost every day, there were stressful times. Not in any conversation -- let me just say what Michael Jackson was doing between June 13th, 2005 and when I was there. He was negotiating a record deal. He was negotiating the saving of his Sony ATV loan. He made appearances. We did photo shoots. He traveled all over. And not one time --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Raymone, we`re going to take a quick break and we`re extending you to the next block. We want to hear what you have to say. We know you have the best intentions. Hang in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson had a problem and he knew that he needed help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad Murray repeatedly acted with gross negligence, repeatedly denied care.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson had an absolute, total, and thorough inability to sleep.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m here to get justice for Michael Jackson.

DR. CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: Your honor, I am an innocent man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was not an anesthesiologist. He was not board certified in cardiology. Conrad Murray was not board certified in any medical specialties. Michael Jackson`s death was a homicide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

I`m continuing my exclusive interview with Raymone Bain, who knows Michael Jackson, knew him better than almost anybody, was his spokesperson for many years, manager, and traveled the world with him. Raymone, who are you blaming? Who specifically are you blaming for this?

BAIN: Well, I don`t know everybody who was around him at the time, and I think the family is trying to find that out too. Michael Jackson needed help and he didn`t get it. What is so sad about this, Jane, is that here is Michael Jackson with all his wealth, with all his means, he needed help. He had an incompetent doctor around him, who because of greed, continued to ply him with Propofol, which is just absolutely sickening and egregious. And here is a man who needed help --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you`re saying that you don`t think that --

(CROSSTALK)

BAIN: He needed help but he didn`t get it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, but you`re saying two things. You`re saying two things. On the one hand, you`re saying he needed help and he didn`t get it. On the other hand, you`re saying you`ve never heard him slurring his words. And are you --

(CROSSTALK)

BAIN: I am saying two things. And I think I`ve said several here, but let me just make clear what I`m saying. I heard that tape today and I had to pause, because I`m wondering if there`s any forensics having been done on that tape. I have been around Michael Jackson in times when things were far worse than this, and he didn`t sound like a demon or somebody being possessed or the exorcist. I mean I had to take pause --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or high or stoned. High or stoned -- that`s what it sounds like to me.

BAIN: Or high or stoned. But the whole voice, the level of his voice, even if he were high or stoned, that doesn`t turn your voice into something that`s totally, totally different. And I`m saying that I just wonder about the forensics.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you think that the prosecution might have gotten it wrong?

BAIN: I think that -- I`m suspect that Dr. Conrad Murray met with Michael Jackson and taped a conversation of his and hadn`t even begun working with him. That was just revealed on your show. I had some concerns about the level of the voice and whether or not it`s anybody I`d ever heard or been around, but then when I find out tonight that it was taped before the doctor even came aboard, then I have to question, what is Michael Jackson doing on the doctor`s cell phone? Why did the doctor tape Michael Jackson? What was that about? What was the purpose for doing that, number one?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think it could maybe -- do you think it might not be Michael Jackson?

BAIN: Well, I think that they need to do a little bit more forensics, because I am going to tell you, I`ve gotten a couple of calls from other people today who have said, "You know, Raymone, we`ve been around him for 20, 30 years, that does not sound like Michael Jackson." But let`s just see what the forensic evidence says.

But I`m going to tell you, my blood curdled, because that`s not any voice of Michael Jackson I have ever seen, and we`ve been around some very, very, very, very serious circumstances that were far worse than apparently, I think, what was going on during that time and I kind of question whether or not some good forensics were done on that tape. And then, if so, why did the doctor tape Michael Jackson before he began working for him? I have a question about that.

Number two, the doctor was extremely careless and negligent and he failed Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson is dead. He can`t come back. No matter what happens in that court, no matter what I say, no matter what a family member will say, no matter how we analyze this, Michael Jackson needed help and he didn`t get it.

And he didn`t get it because, one, he was alienated. People around him, at that time, were only concerned about money and how much they were going to make. And the doctor, I believe, fell victim to that as well. How in the world can you continue to administer Propofol to someone who can`t sleep?

And Jane, when Michael Jackson was here in Washington, and the last time I saw him, which was late 2008, the last time I saw Michael Jackson, he was 165 pounds. He`s about 110 pounds. He`s lost 50 pounds. Who was overseeing him? In all of the calls I received from the entertainment industry today, who was in charge?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Raymone, we are out of time, but please, I want you to come back as this trial continues. We need your insight. Thank you Raymone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: (INAUDIBLE) but then I needed to go to the bathroom. So I got out and went to the bathroom to relieve myself of urine; also considered getting rid of some of his urination that he had (INAUDIBLE) overnight.

And then I came back to his bedside and --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to talk to two fans, Michael Jackson fans, Erin Jacobs and Robyn Starkand. You were in court, tour reaction to the defense case?

ERIN JACOBS, MICHAEL JACKSON FAN: I have no words for what we saw in court today. Seeing Michael`s body deceased was disturbing and hearing the audio was -- I`m sorry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The audio of Michael Jackson. What ran through you when you heard that?

JACOBS: How could a doctor do that to another human being? First of all, he was invading his privacy, at his most vulnerable point, when he couldn`t even form a sentence. And he used his iPhone to record moments that should have been private and it was disgusting and demonic, in my opinion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there`s so much controversy over this audio recording. First of all, we decided not to show the autopsy photo or the photo of Michael Jackson deceased, being wheeled into the hospital, because so many people are so upset, as you are.

ROBYN STARKAND, MICHAEL JACKSON FAN: It`s very troubling.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s very troubling. Tell us about that, Robyn.

STARKAND: It`s just troubling. You know, here`s somebody that we loved and just seeing him -- and it shouldn`t have happened. It should have been avoided.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean, shouldn`t have happened? The photograph or the death --

STARK: His death -- his death should not have happened. Therefore, we shouldn`t have seen him in that kind of a state.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You were in court. What was the family going through?

JACOBS: You know, I saw the fake tears from Conrad Murray and all I could think to myself is, how many tears have the Jackson family cried -- Prince, Paris and Blanket and Miss Jackson and Michael`s siblings. I have no sympathy for Dr. Murray, but I have a ton of sympathy that that family has to sit in that courtroom and listen to what happened to their son being so drugged that he was incoherent.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`ve heard controversy, because we`ve heard claims that, oh, when Dr. Murray took that video/audio recording of Michael Jackson slurring his words, he hadn`t even -- he`d just started working for him. But I think that other people are saying, no, he began working even earlier, so he was working for him at that time.

JACOBS: Correct.

STARKAND: Yes.

JACOBS: Yes. He had been ordering the Propofol since April. And after the prosecution set the stage in the opening arguments today, they stated that he was at his bedside as he was being sedated, using an iPhone app on his iPhone to record Michael. Why? Was he going to sell this?

STARKAND: What was the point?

JACOBS: Was he going to exploit him at another time? Was he going to use it to share with his friends that he was treating Michael Jackson? I mean it`s just disgusting that a doctor who you put your trust in would go to such disgusting lengths to tape a private moment like that, and then save it. You have to remember, the prosecution found this after --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you believe it`s Michael Jackson? Because Raymone Bain is doubting it.

JACOBS: In my opinion, I think it was Michael.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. And how about you, Robyn?

STARKAND: I think it might have been Michael.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s such a sad case. I want you ladies to come back again as we monitor this case.

STARKAND: Ok.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, such emotion -- such emotion today. This man, who just changed the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meantime, Nancy Grace still dancing up a storm on "Dancing with the Stars", so I`m going to be sitting in for her tonight.

Check this out. Here is Nancy, she`s tearing it up. Oh, my gosh, look at that. She got a solid score of 21 with partner Tristan MacManus.

I`ve got to tell you, this quick stepping Nancy is unbelievable. You think those steps are easy? That is darned, darned difficult. I mean, look at those turns, wow. Look at this. Look at her foot moves. And she`s having a good time, I can tell. She`s loving every second of it.

Let me tell you, you can get out there and vote for Nancy. We`re all rooting for Nancy here at HLN. And oh, my gosh, look at that. Whoo. Ok, Nancy on "Dancing with the Stars", you can give her a holler, give her a vote. Again, Nancy`s got a chance to win it.

More up next.

END