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Trial Reveals Jackson`s Final Moments

Aired September 28, 2011 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. Michael Jackson`s security chief on the stand, being cross-examined by Dr. Conrad Murray`s attorney. Dramatic developments in court today.

Let`s go back into court. And then I will have complete analysis and exclusive interviews on the other side. Let`s join.

CHERNOFF: And who was he with?


CHERNOFF: Alberto Alvarez?

MUHAMMAD: Yes. With his back towards us?

CHERNOFF: With his back towards us. Yes.


CHERNOFF: And next to Alberto Alvarez, do you know who that gentleman is, with the glasses hanging from his shirt?

MUHAMMAD: No, sir.

CHERNOFF: Do you know who the coroner investigators were?

MUHAMMAD: No, sir.

CHERNOFF: Did you talk to any of them?

MUHAMMAD: Not that I recall.

CHERNOFF: This is going to be defense E, judge. Defense exhibit E.

MUHAMMAD: Thank you.

CHERNOFF: Let me show you this part of the picture here, Mr. Mohammad. Who are these two individuals?

MUHAMMAD: That is Derek Cleveland, it appears to be.

CHERNOFF: Which one is Derek Cleveland?

MUHAMMAD: The one with the black suit on. And that is Erik Mohamed (ph).

CHERNOFF: Erik Mohamed (ph).


CHERNOFF: Is he related to you?

MUHAMMAD: No, sir.

CHERNOFF: How about here? Who are these two individuals?

MUHAMMAD: That`s myself, and with the hat on, that`s Detective Abdul.

CHERNOFF: It`s -- it`s E, echo, judge.


CHERNOFF: And this is going to be defense C, judge, Charlie.


CHERNOFF: All right. Looking at this photo here, who are these individuals?

MUHAMMAD: It`s myself. That`s Detective Abdul. Michael Amir. And that is Alberto Alvarez.

CHERNOFF: Alberto Alvarez.


CHERNOFF: Thank you. That`s all I have, judge. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. You can move that item. Thank you. We can turn on our lights. Redirect by the people? Mr. Walgren?

WALGREN: Thanks, your honor.

Mr. Muhammad, to be clear when you were interviewed on August 31, 2009, were you alone in the room with just your attorney and the detectives?

MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir.

WALGREN: OK. Alberto Alvarez wasn`t with you?

MUHAMMAD: No, sir.

WALGREN: Michael Amir Williams was not with you?

MUHAMMAD: No, sir.

WALGREN: No other witness was with you?

MUHAMMAD: No, sir.

WALGREN: And you were truthful on that day?

MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir.

WALGREN: OK. Nurse Lee, she is, in fact, a nutritionist, and she deals with vitamins and nutritional substances and holistic things such as that, correct?

MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir.

WALGREN: OK. And to -- to your knowledge of what Nurse Lee does that`s the extent of what she does?

MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir.

WALGREN: OK. Thank you. Nothing further.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Walgren, thank you. Mr. Chernoff, recross. If you need a moment.

CHERNOFF: Please, judge.


CHERNOFF: That`s all we have, judge. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. May Mr. Muhammad step down, subject to recall, Mr. Walgren?

WALGREN: Please, your honor.


CHERNOFF: Yes. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Muhammad, I want to thank you for your testimony.

MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please don`t discuss your testimony or the facts of the case with any other witness until we finish the trial. While you may step down and leave you will remain on call. And you`re subject to recall until the end of the trial if necessary. Is that all right?

MUHAMMAD: Yes. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May I see the attorneys?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, a dramatic day. There is the defendant, Dr. Conrad Murray, looking around at the end of day two of testimony. He is charged with involuntary manslaughter.

We are all over this case. And there was chaos and confrontation outside court today. Check it out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can see this tape right here. That wasn`t here yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s Jermaine Jackson walking in right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hollywood. Hollywood killed Michael. Hollywood killed him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Educate yourself. You don`t know what you`re talking about.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m here to get justice for Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re ready to see justice done.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The family is coming in the front door every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they loved him so much why didn`t they get Michael off drugs?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They`re sending a message that they`re here for Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it`s not the Propofol that killed Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael was murdered. He was a doctor. He had a role to play and a job to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael did this to himself. Michael had 12 people in that house. Dr. Murray tried to help him. Dr. Murray did not kill him, all right?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a little bit of a mad house here.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live from Los Angeles. What a day, ladies and gentlemen. Michael Jackson`s father, Joe Jackson, left the courthouse just a couple of minutes ago, and I talked to him briefly as he left court. Check it out.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: When a would you say to Michael right now?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think he`s getting justice? Do you think he`s getting justice?

JACKSON: It`s too early to tell yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s too early to tell?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you like what the defense is doing or do you think that they`re trying to shift the blame to Dr. Arnie Klein?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, is the defense trying to pin this whole thing on Michael Jackson`s dermatologist and close friend, Dr. Arnie Klein? We are going to talk exclusively tonight to Dr. Arnie Klein`s attorney. This is an ISSUES exclusive that we`ll have in a few minutes, because we want to get both sides of the story. A lot is being said about Dr. Arnie Klein. Is it fair? Is it right?

But let`s listen to Dr. Conrad Murray`s attorney, who says Dr. Klein gave Michael Jackson regular injections of Demerol during Michael Jackson`s visits for relatively minor medical procedures.


CHERNOFF: Michael Jackson was suffering from the Demerol withdrawal.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we just heard some shocking testimony from Michael Jackson`s chief of security and body guard, who saw Michael Jackson lying on his death bed on that very fateful day, the day he died. He described something out of a horror movie. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you observe about his face at that time?

MUHAMMAD: That his eyes were open and his mouth was slightly open. Paris was on the ground, balled up, crying. And Prince was -- he was standing there, and he was just -- he was having a little shock, you know, just slowly crying, the type of look on his face.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But first tonight here on ISSUES, we have breaking news. Stunning new defense claims that Michael Jackson was just pretending to be asleep minutes before his death. Do you believe it? What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to chief CNN medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who has this blockbuster new claim coming from sources close to defendant Dr. Conrad Murray and that defense team. And this really puts circumstances surrounding Michael Jackson`s death in an entirely new light.

Tell us what you have heard, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, these are sources close to the defense, talking about specifically and really sort of putting out a specific description of what they think has happened that night. And I should preface, as you know, Jane, this is coming from sources close to the defense, not evidence of this yet.

But they say that Conrad Murray, Dr. Murray did give Propofol to Michael Jackson, waited more than ten minutes -- ten minutes or greater is how they put it to me specifically. I`m looking at some of the notes. And then after that he left the room. He said Michael Jackson appeared to be asleep. At that point, he thought the Propofol would likely be out of his system and Michael Jackson was likely asleep due to exhaustion. He left the room.

And now what they say happened after that was that, in fact, Michael Jackson was, as they said, playing opossum the whole time, that he was actually awake but feigned sleep until Dr. Murray walked out of the room. When Dr. Murray left. he went up and got these Lorazepam tablets, these anti-anxiety pills, eight pills, 2 milligrams each, took them himself and also gave himself more of this Propofol through a -- through an existing port, which is like an in-dwelling I.V. catheter.

Now, this again, all coming from the defense, sources close to the defense. But that`s part of what they`re laying out, trying to -- to describe the events of that particular day over that particular time period.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s shocking and, of course, if Dr. Conrad Murray had left the room, how does he know that Michael Jackson was walking around the room? This is extraordinary.

And my other question is why didn`t he include this in his opening statement, Ed Chernoff? Why didn`t he say, "We believe that Michael Jackson was walking around the room when Dr. Conrad Murray went out of the room"?

And then a final thing. Dr. Conrad Murray told cops two days after Jackson`s death that he was out of the room just two minutes to go to the bathroom. Now, he has since backpedaled on that story. But how is it possible that Michael Jackson is walking around popping pills and shooting himself up with Demerol in the two minutes that Dr. Conrad Murray is out of the room, and then gets back in the position that he`s sleeping in and pretends -- and then passes out? I find it -- do you find it, let`s say, implausible, Dr. Gupta?

GUPTA: Well, a lot of it is simply going to be very hard to reconcile. The two-minute thing you mentioned near the end, I think, in particular. Certainly, the idea that a man appeared asleep, but within a two-minute period he got up, walked to the bathroom with this in-dwelling I.V., took pills, put some more medication into his I.V., got back into bed and had died, in fact, within 120 seconds. That just doesn`t make sense.

My guess is that you`re going to hear people sort of backing away from that two-minute number. You know...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to jump to one other thing -- I want to jump to one other thing if I may, Doctor. Because there`s another aspect to what the defense told you that`s extraordinary. And it concerns Dr. Arnie Klein.

Now Michael Jackson`s personal assistant, Michael Amir Williams, today in court talked about how he saw changes in Michael Jackson`s speech pattern after Michael Jackson visited Dr. Klein. Listen to this.


WALGREN: When Michael would come out of Dr. Klein`s office, I think you indicated sometimes he would have a slower speech pattern?

MICHAEL AMIR WILLIAMS, MICHAEL JACKSON`S PERSONAL ASSISTANT: That wasn`t unusual. That wasn`t every time. But I have noticed that before.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Briefly, Dr. Gupta, what did your defense source claim about Dr. Klein?

GUPTA: Well, they said a couple of things. First of all, they said even up to a couple of days prior to Michael Jackson`s death, he was still getting procedures on his face. They said anywhere three to four a week is what they claimed. Now some of these procedures were described as minor procedures, Botox, for example. But they did say that, for those procedures, he would often get Demerol, a medication that has come up. And you talked about this yourself.

But Demerol is a narcotic medication. And it`s a medication that in the past he has had, Michael Jackson has had problems with. But they say that that Demerol, when it breaks down into the body, turns into these metabolites that are actually stimulants, and that was part of the reason they say Michael Jackson was having trouble sleeping.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Gupta, thank you so much for joining us. We`re delighted to have you on ISSUES.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to have the attorney for Dr. Arnie Klein. This is an exclusive. We`re also taking your calls: 1- 877-586-7297.

But we want to be fair. We want to get the other side of the story. Stay right there.



CHERNOFF: Michael Jackson would visit Dr. Arnold Klein sometimes three or four times a week, but on each of those occasions that he visited Dr. Arnold Klein, he would receive a shot, an injection of Demerol. Dr. Arnold Klein addicted Michael Jackson to Demerol.

LARRY KING, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: What was the strongest medication you gave him?

DR. ARNOLD KLEIN, MICHAEL JACKSON`S DERMATOLOGIST: I once -- on occasion I gave him Demerol to sedate him. And that was about the strongest thing I ever used.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And Jackson family is leaving court as we speak. Janet, La Toya just got in their cars. That`s a live picture outside court.

Our question tonight, as Katherine gets ready to leave, and she`s coming right there in the pink jacket. You`re looking at a live picture. It`s been a very emotional day for Katherine Jackson and leaving with family members there and actually stopping to speak, as Joe did to me earlier this evening.

And our question, did an addiction to Demerol have anything to do with Michael Jackson`s death? Rebbie is next to Katherine. But this is what the defense is claiming. Pointing the finger at Michael`s long-time dermatologist, claiming Dr. Klein gave Michael Demerol as recently as days before his death. Let`s listen a little bit to what`s happening outside. Let`s do nat sound full for a second.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael. Justice for Michael.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In an ISSUES exclusive tonight, I am joined by the attorney for Michael`s dermatologist, Dr. Arnie Klein.

Thank you so much, Garo Ghazarian. You`re the attorney for Dr. Arnold Klein. And I ask you, you`ve been taking a lot of hits in the courtroom. They are -- the defense is essentially pointing the finger at you, saying, "Hey, Dr. Arnie Klein got Michael Jackson hooked on Demerol. He was going to Dr. Klein all the time, and we weren`t aware of the extent of it, getting Demerol for things for Botox and other basically minor procedures that shouldn`t require a powerful, potent narcotic."

We want to get your side of the story.

GARO GHAZARIAN, ATTORNEY FOR DR. ARNOLD KLEIN: Well, it seems to me that it`s the SODI defense. It`s the oldest defense that defense lawyers use. It`s called "some other dude it" defense. Except in this case we can`t point to some other dude, Dr. Klein or any other person, because the only person that was caring for Michael Jackson in the days and the hours, certainly, prior to his demise was, unfortunately, from what appears to be the case, Dr. Murray.

Now, I`m a defense attorney, so I`m not going to take shots at -- at the defense tactics. They have their duties to zealously represent Dr. Murray. And they`re doing that. The prosecution has its duty to put forward what they believe is fair and equitable in their case. They`re bringing that.

But to suggest that my client, Dr. Klein, who not only is a world- renowned dermatologist, respected, a philanthropist -- philanthropist and not only a close personal friend of Michael Jackson, has always come to Michael Jackson`s aid when, and if, Michael Jackson has needed it in the past. And when -- when the record comes out and the medical records are put in evidence, you will see that, in the month of May, for example, when I heard earlier on your show, Mr. Oxman representing Joe Jackson talking about, well, on May 10, that little audio tidbit on the iPhone of Dr. Murray where...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where Michael Jackson is slurring his words. Yes, we all heard.

GHAZARIAN: Right, right. Well, that -- that couldn`t be Mr. -- Dr. Murray. That had to be somebody else, alluding to my client.

Well, the last time, the record will show, when the appropriate time comes, the last time he had been to my client`s offices were at least four days prior to that May 10 recording

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait. You`re saying that Michael Jackson did not visit Arnie Klein in the days leading up to his death?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because there was testimony in court to the contrary.

GHAZARIAN: No. That`s not what I`m saying, Jane. What I`m saying is -- we can take it -- we can take it both -- both different segments. May 10 incident that they referred to, the slurred speech and what not...


GHAZARIAN: ... he hadn`t seen my client, according to the records that will be shown in court, at least four days prior to that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. More on the other side. This is interesting.



CHERNOFF: When you saw Michael Jackson he looked a little intoxicated?

PAUL GONGAWARE, CEO, AEG: That`s not the word I used, sir.

CHERNOFF: What word did you use?

GONGAWARE: I don`t recall the word I used but what I saw was just a little bit of a slower speech pattern, just a slight slur in his speech.

CHERNOFF: And -- and you also testified that you found out that at that time that Michael Jackson had just come from Dr. Klein`s office?

GONGAWARE: That`s correct.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That is one of the concert promoter executives describing Michael Jackson`s condition after leaving the office of Jackson`s dermatologist, Dr. Arnie Klein, and his attorney is on exclusively with us.

Dr. Arnie Klein himself spoke on "LARRY KING LIVE" about Michael Jackson`s issues with drugs. Listen to this.


KLEIN: Michael at one time had an addiction. And he went to England and he withdrew that addiction at Secure 7 (ph), where he went off of drugs altogether.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now you`re that guy`s attorney, Dr. Arnie Klein, and we`re very delighted to have you on tonight.

Here`s what I have to ask you. He`s saying he had an addiction at one time. Now, my understanding as a recovery alcoholic is that, once you`re an addict you`re always an addict. And therefore, you`re never supposed to touch any mood-altering medications unless it`s really a life or death matter. Was Dr. Arnie Klein treating Michael Jackson by giving him Demerol?

GHAZARIAN: Well, let me just say this. Because when it comes to addiction, and I think you and I have something in common. I have 18 years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Congratulations. Put it right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You have two years more than me.

GHAZARIAN: And I`m proud of it.


GHAZARIAN: But I have to say that Dr. Klein is not just a physician. He also has written and done research on addiction.


GHAZARIAN: And one can go and look it up.


GHAZARIAN: Dr. Klein did not do anything that was medically inappropriate. I have done extensive research on this for two-plus years.

Mind you, you will recall in the beginning, when nine doctors or so were being looked at, Dr. Klein along with Dr. Murray and many others whose names I don`t care to mention were on the list.


GHAZARIAN: I had -- I had dealings with the DEA, the LAPD, the district attorney`s office, all the way from Mr. Walgren, who`s now the prosecuting attorney. And the determination was made -- not by me, although my determination was the same as theirs -- that, as far as the death, the homicide of Michael Jackson, Conrad Murray was the one that they were going to charge.

That was not just a fluke. There was nothing to tie my client to the death of Michael Jackson. In fact, if you look at the toxicology report, if you look at the autopsy report, there`s not a single medication that was found there that was in his body, Mr. Michael Jackson`s body, that was prescribed by my client.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, how do you feel about the fact that the defense keeps -- I`m using sound bites from the actual trial. They keep mentioning your name, your client`s name.

GHAZARIAN: Well -- well, and I expect them to continue to do that. But one knows, and I`m certain your expert, Dr. Gupta, knows that the half life -- and that`s a medical term -- the half life of Demerol is two and a half to four hours.

Well, clearly, if you`re to be having some treatment and you`re going to be irritated and agitated and therefore, you`re being sedated with some amount of Demerol, within 2 1/2 to four hours thereafter, when you`re leaving the doctor`s office going home, you might from time to time have some slurred speech.

But when the record comes out you will see that, for some three plus days, Michael Jackson had not had any treatment, and there was no Demerol in his system. And what did he die of? What does the toxicology report say?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have ten seconds. Is Dr. Klein upset?

GHAZARIAN: Dr. Klein is extremely upset. He lost his friend. He now has to deal with these innuendoes, and he wants justice, just like everyone else.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We want to you come back.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much. What an amazing advocate for your client.

All right. More exclusives on the other side of the break.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Jackson family`s public agony during day two of Michael`s death trial.

Good evening everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live in Los Angeles where Michael Jackson`s parents, brothers, sisters, they just left court. They are coming to and from court every day, showing up right alongside the king of pop`s many, many fans who are clustered outside.

But look at what this family has had to endure. Take a look at this photo of Michael Jackson shown in court after his death. Ok. This was almost the first thing that was shown in court as this trial kicked off. The Jacksons had to look at their beloved Michael on a gurney just moments after he died.

And then, the prosecution played a hugely controversial audiotape of Michael Jackson clearly under the influence of something. Listen to this.


MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: When people leave my show, I want them to say I`ve never seen nothing like this in my life. Go. Go.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely stunning evidence. But then last night Michael`s brother Jermaine took issue with me. This is what Jermaine tweeted. "Jane Velez-Mitchell, HLN, made statements saying this shows my brother to be a `drug addict` is not what was said in court."

You know what? I actually completely agree. I do not believe that one tape alone of Michael slurring his words proves Michael was an addict.

However, in 1993 Michael Jackson himself admitted that he had a drug problem. Listen to this.


JACKSON: As you may already know after my tour ended I remained out of the country undergoing treatment for dependency on pain medication. This medication was initially prescribed to cease the excruciating pain that I was suffering after recent reconstructive surgery on my scalp.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Jermaine also talk about that. He wrote, "Events are upsetting enough without correspondents adding their own interpretation or back dating events to 1993. No one can rule out the prospect that Michael was groggy because of something administered to make him relax, sleep. That does not make him an addict."

All right. First of all, I have to say, I have tremendous compassion for the Jackson family and I respect Jermaine`s opinion. Nothing was meant in disrespect but here`s my point. This is not to blame Michael Jackson for anything. Addiction is a disease. It`s not a dirty word. What it does show is that Dr. Conrad Murray had a responsibility to treat Michael in that context. As a person who had a history with drugs.

One Google search turns up that history. All right. One Google search. So that`s one reason, a big one that Dr. Conrad Murray failed his patient completely.

I say this as a recovering alcoholic myself. This isn`t not about besmirching Michael`s memory. Recognizing that Michael had a history of drug abuse bolsters actually the prosecution`s case that Dr. Murray shouldn`t have been pumping him with drugs.

I have two fantastic guests with me tonight, and we have Marcia Clark, O.J. Simpson prosecutor and, of course, author of the amazing book, "Guilt" -- tell me your title again.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Guilt by Association". There you have it and we`re going to put it up in a second because you got to read this book. And also Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of The Hills Treatment Center; Howard you and I have talked about addiction a lot.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I can understand why Jermaine is upset. Nobody is trying to besmirch Michael. But that is a big issue in this case, is it not?

SAMUELS: Oh, I mean Jane. I mean come one. One and one is two. I mean everything that was found at his home when they came in. I mean please. The Demerol, the Valium, the Xanax. I mean I could go on forever. It was a dug addict`s dream. He was living a drug addict`s dream.

And that`s what is so sad about this is that this doctor really failed his responsibilities, and really, you know, added to this drug addict`s problem and killed him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, how is the defense going to deal with this audio of Michael Jackson under the influence? Remember it was the prosecution that played this audiotape of Michael Jackson slurring his words. Well, I asked that question -- I asked that question to Dr. Conrad Murray`s attorney as he walked into court and this is what he told me exclusively. Listen to this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Were you shocked by the audiotape that the prosecution played? Were you shocked at all by that tape?

J. MICHAEL FLANAGAN, CONRAD MURRAY`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. That`s what happens when Murray is not there to treat him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Marcia Clark, former prosecutor, a lot of people have said that this cuts both ways; that playing this audiotape of Michael Jackson slurring his words might actually play into the defense hands. What do you think?

CLARK: No. I do not think so. I think showing this audiotape -- first of all playing that audiotape is a very powerful, compelling illustration of exactly the state Michael Jackson was in. And a doctor treats the patient he gets, not the patient he wishes he had. And that was the state that Michael Jackson was in. Conrad Murray was required to treat that person. That person who could be that stoned, that out of it and under that there`s a weakness here. There`s something to take care of. He had to be protected from himself. And Conrad Murray obviously did not do that.

In a situation like this you have a doctor who essentially becomes a pusher. And he`s ordering all this Propofol. He has a patient that he knows is addicted, you know, and clearly doing a lot of drugs whether you call him an addict or not. And that`s the patient that he had to be treating and he wasn`t.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here`s something interesting. Michael Jackson actually wrote a song about Demerol. We found it on YouTube so listen to this.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Howard Samuels, Michael Jackson wrote a song about Demerol. Now, you have the defense claiming that he went to Dr. Arnie Klein`s and got Demerol. We just had Dr. Arnie Klein`s attorney on saying and very eloquently, I think, "Hey don`t blame us. The DA looked at all this evidence and decided to charge Dr. Conrad Murray."

I still think this all goes back to Dr. Conrad Murray`s responsibility. We`re in no way not blaming Michael Jackson for his own death. What we`re saying is that there were certain things a doctor should do when he is dealing with a person who one Google search shows has a history of drug issues.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What are those things?

SAMUELS: Well, you have to understand is that, I think, both doctors have a responsibility.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But let`s talk about Dr. Conrad Murray because he`s the one on trial.

SAMUELS: Ok. Well, first of all, he failed his responsibility. I mean he`s supposed to be a doctor but what he`s turned into is a drug dealer. Ok. And you know -- and this is what has happened in L.A. and I think in New York and a lot of the other cities is that you get these rich and famous, who are being able to buy these doctors for $30,000 to $100,000 a month and they really become the drug dealers.

They come to the person`s house. They deal whatever they give. And these doctors get seduced by the appeal of being around people like this just like Dr. Conrad Murray did. He got seduced and he crossed the line.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, I`ve been trying to get a doctor to come to my house to do a house call since I was a kid. And it`s never happened.

Samuels: For $30,000?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. If I had a $30,000 to throw around maybe; or $150,000 a month as in the case of Dr. Conrad Murray. I asked HLN`s Nancy Grace about this defense claim that Dr. Klein got Michael Jackson hooked on Demerol. Here`s what Nancy had to say.


NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Who cares? Who cares who got him hooked? It doesn`t matter. What matters today, what matters this week, what matters now is who is responsible for the death of Michael Jackson. Not who gave him his first Demerol.

I want to know who put that needle in his arm and let him die. Who let him die in a bed of his own urine?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you agree, Marcia Clark?

CLARK: Yes. It doesn`t matter. I don`t care. Arnie Klein gave him drugs. I mean these are things that probably Dr. Conrad Murray should know in terms of being able to treat his patient accurately. But who got him hooked? It doesn`t matter; legally speaking, it does not matter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to say, I`ve covered you for decades, and I`m so delighted to be able to meet you in person because obviously I covered the O.J. Simpson trial and I watched you day in and day out and I`m a huge fan and I know you have a book. We have the book cover. We`re going to show it in a second and that`s "Guilt by Association", we`re getting there. And that way we get to mention it three or four times.

But it must be bizarre, Marcia, coming back to the same exact courthouse behind us where you prosecuted the O.J. Simpson case. It must be weird.

CLARK: Yes. It is weird. It`s really weird. I mean I was looking back there. It was home sweet home for many years until that last trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But does it feel like deja vu all over again as they say.

CLARK: Yes. A little bit. A little bit. But it`s weird to be looking at it from this perspective instead of being inside it, I have to say.


CLARK: So that`s what it looks like from back here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, exactly. You`re not in that. But I like to say we`ve all been in the vortex of that courthouse for decades. Now, like the O.J. case there`s a lot of protesters outside. One of the most vocal people I met outside of court was not a Michael Jackson fan but actually a supporter of Conrad Murray. Listen to him go.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The scene outside court very, very dramatic scene. And you`ve also got people who are in support of Dr. Conrad Murray as well. And there`s a sign right there that says "I support Dr. Conrad Murray".

Why your here, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael -- Michael did this to himself. Michael had drug people in that house. Dr. Murray tried to help him. Dr. Murray did not kill him, all right?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Just like the O.J. Simpson case you have a lot of drama and fiery debates going on outside. So this is definitely like old home week for Marcia Clark here on set, reliving the same kind of dynamics.

Once again her book is "Guilt by Association". You`ve got to read it. I know, I`m reading it while I`m here in Los Angeles covering this trial.

All right. Thank you so much Marcia and Howard. Please join us. Come back.

Stay with us. Tomorrow two more exclusives: we are going to hear here on ISSUES from the guy, who made the chilling 911 call, asking for help when Michael Jackson had collapsed, was unresponsive. We`re also going talk to Michael`s personal chef Kai Chase who was in the house with the kids on that crucial day.

And at the top of the hour, Nancy Grace has an exclusive interview with the man who was training Michael Jackson for the "This Is It", fitness guru, Lou Ferrigno talks to Nancy about Jackson`s health moments before his passing.

And it`s a humdinger. You`ve got to stay and watch that. Our Nancy is back from her stint on "Dancing with the Stars".



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just so we`re clear it was Conrad Murray who said "I need $5 million a year for my services," correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He volunteered that Michael Jackson is perfectly healthy, excellent condition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you aware of the fact that clothing changes by Michael Jackson as the show went on got smaller and smaller?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was Dr. Conrad, can`t quote it exactly but it was "Call me right away. Call me right away. Thank you," -- something to that effect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And were you asked to call 911?


DR. CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: Please call me. Please call me right away.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that is the voice of Dr. Conrad Murray after he realizes Michael Jackson is unresponsive and he calls an assistant to Michael Jackson and says please, please call me back right away. He doesn`t call 911; he calls an assistant who is in downtown L.A., which is where we are which is a long way from where Michael Jackson`s mansion was.

Now by far the most controversial portion of the trial thus far, the recording purportedly of Michael Jackson allegedly under the influence of an unknown substance. Let`s listen again.


JACKSON: When people leave my show, I want them to say I`ve never seen nothing like this in my life. Go. Go.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we are back tonight with, a guest we had on last night, Raymone Bain who was Michael Jackson`s publicist, spokesperson and who traveled the world with the king of pop. Last night, on this show, Raymone said that she was very disturbed by that recording and really challenged whether or not it really was Michael Jackson.

Raymone, thank you for joining us again; I understand you`ve gotten a lot of reaction to your statement last night. Tell us about it.

RAYMONE BAIN, GENERAL MANAGER FOR MICHAEL JACKSON: Oh, I have. You know, it`s like in politics. You have a silent majority of people who you don`t hear from until they vote. You have smaller groups that come out and they yell and scream and act like banshees sometimes but they are not reflective of the majority of the people.

I received hundreds and hundreds of emails and there`s several things that people said that I wanted to share it. One, they are calling for or feel that my recommendation for forensics was a good one, because that tape is doctored. When I listened yet again just a few minutes ago and I`ve been hearing it all night and all day yesterday, it`s in slow motion. Something is happening with that tape. They need to do some forensics on it.

Number two: the people are really concerned about the doctor, and the -- just deliberate inactive care that it appears that he gave Michael Jackson. They are concerned about Michael Jackson`s deterioration.

It seems like another word that I used last night, that caused people to react was who was around Michael Jackson? What happened to management? I mean this is the entertainment industry. Michael had a number of handlers, a number of people around him. And several people also discussed what actually was discussed in court today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me stop you there --


BAIN: The time lapse. The time lapse --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me stop you for one second. Because you said last night -- what you just said -- where were the people around him. Why didn`t somebody step in? Why didn`t somebody intervene?

So last night Rabbi Shmuley was on "NANCY GRACE" and was asked about what you had to say and this is what he had to say about what you had to say last night. Check this out.


RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, FORMER FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I said then that Michael is in danger of dying on the air and she castigated me on the air and said Rabbi Shmuley is irresponsible. He`s using alarmist rhetoric. She was one of the people around him.

What were these people doing on his payroll, knowing the problems he had and with all due respect misrepresenting his state? Michael was a man in serious deep crisis.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get your reaction.

BAIN: First of all, let me just say, Rabbi Shmuley -- I don`t really have anything to say because I wasn`t around Michael Jackson when he died, number one. And Rabbi Shmuley has never spoken to me before in his life. If he were to walk in this room right now, I`ve never seen him.

Number two: is this the same person who Michael Jackson had his attorney send letters to because he leaked conversations of his to the press during Michael Jackson`s trial in 2005? Is this the same person that was in litigation with Michael Jackson because of the Heal the World Foundation up in New York and Michael Jackson was left holding the bag for millions of dollars with regards to that?


BAIN: So I don`t have anything to really say --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey Raymone. Hang on.

On the other side of the break we`re going to have more from you. Hang in there. We want to get your side. And we`ll hear more of it in just a couple of seconds.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Katherine Jackson is walking in right now.

JERMAINE JACKSON, BROTHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: "This Is It", wasn`t it. There was much more.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The family coming in the front door every day. Now it seems day two and they are back, which to me sends a very strong message that they are here to support Michael.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Asked Jermaine --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Jackson family taking in very disturbing testimony. And we are here with Raymone Bain who was Michael Jackson`s publicist, spokeswoman and traveled the world with Michael Jackson. And Raymone you are also upset about what`s going on in court. Have you talked to any of the members of the Jackson family and how they feel about how this case is headed with the defense really trying to point the finger at another doctor saying oh, that other doctor hooked Michael on Demerol?

BAIN: I talked to a couple of the family members last night and they are concerned because I agree with Jermaine. I didn`t speak -- Jermaine was not one of the family members whom I spoke to last night but I agree with Jermaine. And that who is on trial here? Michael Jackson is not on trial for taking the life of Conrad Murray. Conrad Murray is on trial for taking the life of Michael Jackson.

And whether Michael Jackson used a drug that people can`t prove he used 20 years ago or 15 years ago; that is not the point here. The point is Michael Jackson died from a lethal dose of Propofol.

Let me say something else, back to Rabbi Shmuley. One of the problems that has plagued Michael Jackson for years and one of the things that he had me do many, many years ago when I became his spokesperson. He had me send letters out to tons of people, cease and desist, because Michael Jackson`s position was they didn`t know me, they have not been in my presence. They have absolutely, unequivocally no idea who I am and how I operate.

Rabbi Shmuley should not be interviewed and not one second about Michael Jackson because he betrayed his trust. And everyone in Michael Jackson`s organization knows that Rabbi Shmuley and Michael Jackson ended their relationship in a very bad tone and note about 15 or 20 years ago and Michael Jackson did not ever speak to Rabbi Shmuley again.

And the problem here is that after Michael Jackson died there were a string of people out here who had not been in his presence, who didn`t know him, I`m talking about who and what he did which allowed the DA to come in and charge the doctor with involuntary manslaughter.

I am one that agrees with the Jackson family that when I listen to this testimony, the lies, not knowing how to administer CPR, not telling the assistants that Michael Jackson had fallen into cardiac arrest and to call 911, trying to hide bottles of Propofol, not telling EMS service that he had administered Propofol. Not telling the doctors at UCLA that he administered Propofol. Quite frankly it should be second-degree murder.

But as far as I`m concerned right now with all of this overwhelming evidence regarding his guilt, I think that he and his lawyers should go in and try to work out a plea agreement. They should end it. They should the end grief with the Jackson family and the parents and stop the government from having to pay all of this money for this trial.


BAIN: He should seek a plea agreement and end this because it is clear that he`s guilty of killing Michael Jackson.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side, Raymone.



Raymone Bain, does the Jackson family think that Conrad Murray should go for a plea deal?

BAIN: No. I`m not speaking on behalf of the Jackson family, now. But there were hundreds of e-mails I received and personally my own opinion too. Several of them said maybe he`s just in this.

He administered the lethal dose of Propofol that killed Michael Jackson. So, I mean with all of the overwhelming evidence, it would not be a bad idea for him to consider it, because several of the e-mails that I received yesterday suggested that. And as to what my opinion was, but after hearing all of this testimony, I don`t think any parent should have to sit there and listen to this. I`m going to be honest with you and Dr. Murray knows what he`s guilty of.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re out of time. But we are delighted to have you on and hear your passionate and fiery defense of your dear friend.