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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
Inside the Conrad Murray Courtroom; Interview with Dionne Warwick; Interview With Lewis Black; Interview with Goldie Hawn
Aired September 28, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: Tonight inside the Conrad Murray courtroom. Testimony about Michael Jackson's shocking death scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was real frantic. I got there when the gurney was coming down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a gurney with Michael Jackson's body on it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being carried by the paramedics?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
MORGAN: What expert witnesses think really happened to Michael.
DR. ZEEV KAIN, CHAIRMAN, DEPARTMENT OF ANESTHESIOLOGY, U.C. IRVINE: I've never heard about a case like this.
MORGAN: I'll talk exclusively with the woman Michael called mum, Dionne Warwick.
Then fasten your seatbelt. America's angriest man Lewis Black is here live and uncensored. He has rants of the Tea Party, the president and his hometown, Washington, D.C.
And the great Goldie Hawn, a primetime exclusive, one of America's favorite funny ladies on life, love and her famous family.
This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
Dramatic testimony on day two of the Conrad Murray trial. Michael Jackson's personal assistant testified that Michael's speech was noticeably slower after regular visits to the office of Beverly Hills dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein. And an executive with the company promoting Jackson's comeback concerts described a slight slur in his words and Jackson's speech after a visit to Dr. Klein.
Defense lawyers contend that Klein gave the pop star Demerol during those visits. And a lawyer hired by concert promoter AEG said Dr. Conrad Murray asked for a CPR machine and money to hire a second doctor to help him care for Jackson.
I want to bring in CNN's Ted Rowlands who was in court all day today.
Ted, another day of twists and turns and claim and counterclaim. The most dramatic testimony, I suspect, is going to hinge around these revelations about Dr. Arnold Klein. Tell me about this. What exactly came out today?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, every witness, starting with the opening statements, Piers, but every witness so far that's taken the stand, except for one lawyer, the defense has gotten Klein out there and today they really struck, if you will, from their standpoint.
Because on two separate occasions they had the administrative assistant or the personal assistant to Michael Jackson and the head of security say that they were taking Jackson to Klein's office on an almost daily basis. He was getting Demerol there and he was coming out in an intoxicated state, a slurred state.
They even compared that audio recording. Ed Chernoff, the lead defense attorney for Murray, said, it -- was it like that recording that we heard here in court? And the response from the witness stand was, well, it was sort of like that, not as dramatic but it was that slow speech.
And what they're obviously trying to do is get that other doctor who's not in the defendant's chair to take away some of the attention on Murray.
MORGAN: Yes, I mean, the reason it's so relevant is, of course, that it would establish a pattern here. Demerol, unless I'm mistaken, was taken for the pain that Jackson suffered for a long time going after the Pepsi commercial disaster when he got badly burned. He took the Demerol to cope with the pain killers.
But the side effect of Demerol and the reason it's so significant is that it had a big impact on someone's ability to have a good sleep, right?
ROWLANDS: Absolutely. Especially if someone is trying to get off of Demerol, coming off of Demerol, according to medical experts. That is one possible side effect, insomnia. That would fall into place with why Jackson was having such a tough time sleeping in the days preceding his death and especially the night and morning before his death.
MORGAN: I want to play a little -- tape here. This is from Chernoff and this is when he gets into the assistant specifically about a visit to Dr. Klein.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED CHERNOFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: When you took him to visit Dr. Arnold Klein, did he oftentimes leave the office looking a little tipsy? A little intoxicated?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
CHERNOFF: Estimate for us how many times a week you would do that, take him to Dr. Klein's office?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could fluctuate. There were times when he was going almost every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I mean that is -- that is to me fairly dramatic in the sense that it establishes this, as I say, this pattern of regular trips to a doctor and coming away slurring speech, all the kind of thing we heard in that extraordinary tape yesterday.
Talk me through the rest of the day, Ted, because an interesting bit on Twitter I thought overnight with your little exchange with Jermaine Jackson. Jermaine pretty upset, I think, by our conversation last night in which you sort of intimated that his brother had been a drug addict and he said, look, you know, this is not about Michael being a drug addict. And you kind of accepted based on that one tape that wasn't the case.
I mean are you still feeling as confident given that evidence today?
ROWLANDS: Well, yes, because what Jermaine Jackson -- his point was, and it's well taken, that audio recording that we heard in court was so dramatic. I mean his speech was so slow. On the air I said, you know, he sounded like an addict. And what Jermaine's point was, one tape, one shot of somebody, it doesn't mean they're an addict. This tape doesn't prove that.
And point well taken, it doesn't. What is a concern I would have if I'm the prosecution and the Jackson family is the way the jurors would take it. Because they would listen to that and possibly make the same leap that I think a lot of people would, that not everybody ever gets into that position throughout any of their life.
MORGAN: The other significant aspects I felt of today's testimony, one was that Dr. Murray didn't call 911. Now why would he not do that?
ROWLANDS: Well, this is what the prosecution really hammered on with both of the witnesses that were in the house and out of the house during that time where there was chaos. First it was the personal assistant. Murray calls him but he doesn't say call 911, he just says get over here and send somebody up.
The same thing with the security guard, never called 911. So they're making a point to the jury that Murray didn't call 911 right away. Why? Because later we'll hear that during that critical period, he was collecting those bottles of propofol and instructing others to do the same thing so they're setting up for the next couple of witnesses. MORGAN: And also some sad testimony that two of Michael's children, Paris and Prince, were there when their father died and were extremely distressed by what they were seeing.
ROWLANDS: Yes. The children have come up every day in some form, whether it's a photo or there's direct testimony. And today there was the first real detailed direct testimony of the children being in the House as this chaos is going on, as their father is laying lifeless. His daughter is curled up in a ball and we're going to hear more from that as the chef takes the stand -- the personal chef takes the stand tomorrow.
But today pretty dramatic. Very difficult. All of this has been. But that especially very difficult for the family to hear.
MORGAN: You know, funny, Ted, I mean, again, we saw more evidence which comes to the crux of this really which is that the defense will be saying, listen, it was Michael Jackson applying his own self-administered drugs without Dr. Murray realizing it that caused the end of his life and of course the prosecution will say, no, it was down to the propofol that came from Dr. Murray.
We saw some more evidence today in which it was claimed that Michael had, quote, "played possum," he pretended to be semi conscious and then when Dr. Murray left the room he fed himself a load more drugs. Tell me about that quickly.
ROWLANDS: Well, yes, quickly. That wasn't in court. That is the defense theory that sources are telling CNN that they may have as one of their theories, is that -- because the question is how did Jackson get these drugs. Because they're saying that he took pills and gave himself the propofol.
They're saying he may have pretended to fall asleep. We'll see if they can get that out in court. That's another story.
MORGAN: Ted Rowlands, as always, thank you very much. We'll speak again tomorrow. It's dramatic stuff. Thank you.
My next guest was so close to Michael Jackson that he culled her mum. Dionne Warwick also sang with Michael on the "We are the World" song. And she's the author of a new children's book, "Little Man," about a boy who lives for his music.
Dionne Warwick joins me.
Dionne, I mean, very, very hard for you and for anyone who knew Michael well.
DIONNE WARWICK, SINGER AND AUTHOR: Yes.
MORGAN: To have to listen to all this evidence, this testimony, the circus that goes around this trial.
What are your thoughts about it all? WARWICK: I have not taken to even watch this fiasco. I think it's very difficult to relive. It has to be awfully difficult for the family. I just would hate to think that someone would deliberately do something of that nature, take another life, especially this particular life we're talking about, Michael. It's very, very heart- wrenching, it really is.
MORGAN: Where were you when you heard that Michael had died?
WARWICK: I was at home. And I got a phone call. Did you hear? Did I hear what? Michael Jackson is dead. I said excuse me? And I literally said, I'll call you back. I just had to breathe. And when I picked up the phone to call that person back, I said, did you just tell me that Michael is dead? And she said yes. How, when, why? I mean there just -- there was a big to-do about the tour, he was very excited about it. How could that happen? And then all this is unfolding.
MORGAN: What seems extraordinary to me is that I've interviewed Janet Jackson, La Jackson, Jermaine Jackson, other people connected with Michael, business managers, people around him, friends such as yourself.
Nobody seems to have had any idea or sense or belief that he was in any way any kind of drug addict. We're hearing more and more evidence -- I mean this terrible tape yesterday of Michael sounding like a zombie. More evidence today that, you know, almost every day at one stage he was going to have this Demerol treatment and it was making him sound this way.
You have experienced that firsthand family members, and cousin Whitney Houston, went for a big drug problem. You've seen this. How could it be -- is it possible that Michael could have been a drug addict without anyone around him who cared about him really knowing?
WARWICK: I don't think so, no. Not -- Michael was first of all not made that way. Michael was a very gentle, caring and concerned human being. That of himself as well as others. And to be able to do what he did, no, there's no way in the world. No. No.
MORGAN: What is your gut feeling, Dionne, tell you has gone down here?
WARWICK: I don't know. I really don't know. And for me to give an opinion about something I have no knowledge of would be hearsay, gossip, things that I don't participate in.
MORGAN: It's sad, though. I mean tell me about your relationship with Michael. You were very close.
WARWICK: Yes, Michael --
MORGAN: What kind of man was he?
WARWICK: He was wonderful. He was such a giving human being. I remember the very first time I ever met him, he was 9 years old. And the group had come in to basically audition for Barry Gordy. And Barry had this wonderful house up in the hills of Hollywood. And this is where the boys came to do what they had to do.
And Michael sat down next to me. He was a little feisty thing. And he says, who are you? I said, well, I'm Dionne Warwick.
WARWICK: I said, and who are you? Well, I'm Michael Jackson. Oh, you're that lady that sang that song about me. I said, what song? You know, that song, "Message to Michael." I said, you really think I sang that song about you?
MORGAN: Super confident boy?
WARWICK: Very precocious.
MORGAN: Did you know from that stage, when you watched him, did you think he was going to turn out to be this extraordinarily gifted performer?
WARWICK: Oh, undoubtedly.
MORGAN: He had a unique talent?
WARWICK: Unmistakably. He had -- he had the kind of talent that you kind of associated with people like Sammy Davis Jr.
WARWICK: Who I think was the ultimate when it came to entertainment. Michael told me, he says, you know, I love Sammy Davis Jr. I love Jackie Wilson and I love James Brown. And it all folded into what he actually became. He also loved Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly.
MORGAN: Yes, he loved the greats.
Interestingly this children's book that you've done, "Little Man," yes, this hero of the book, he could be a young Michael Jackson. He's a -- he's a young man with a talent for playing the drums.
MORGAN: And he's desperately trying to find a way to nurture that talent, to develop it. And with the support of his family and friends and so on, he gets the chance and it all ends in glory. Did any part of Michael, his story and everything, play into your thinking for you with this?
WARWICK: You know, not for me it didn't. The actual author of the book is my business partner, Dave Woolly. And the story is basically about him.
WARWICK: And his growing years as a drummer and how he went on and on to play with some of the greats in our industry. He's now teaching college. He's very, very bright young man. But this is his passion, drums. I did the reading for it and we had a lot of fun.
MORGAN: It's beautifully designed.
MORGAN: What I like about it is at a time when there are many young Americans and many young black Americans --
MORGAN: -- who are really struggling with living a dream, with having their own identity, with breaking out of gangs, and so on and so on, it's a very uplifting message.
WARWICK: It certainly is.
MORGAN: Is that the intention?
WARWICK: Exactly the intention.
MORGAN: That there's a better way.
WARWICK: And it's basically for -- not only for young boys but primarily for young men who are of African-American descent. There are very few books that are geared toward our babies, and especially young boys. Young ladies can read it, too.
MORGAN: What's your view of President Obama? I mean I've had a lot of African-Americans on the show, intelligent ones, who have all been disappointed in his delivery of the great promise. How do you feel?
WARWICK: I love that man. I think he is brilliant. You know, it's like everything else. He walked into a quagmire. You know, if somebody had laid that crap on your lap, it's like, oh, god, what do I do? But at any rate, he has taken his -- he's made promises, but he can only do one at a time.
WARWICK: And I think that's what I'm really, really proud of the fact that he's not trying to do everything at one time. One thing at a time, get it done, complete it, and then move on to the next. And that's exactly what he's done. Everybody talks about what he has not done. Nobody has ever said anything about what he has done.
MORGAN: So you will be voting firmly for Barack Obama again.
WARWICK: No doubt. I will be campaigning like I did when he ran the first time. Yes, I will be out there.
MORGAN: Do you think he's going to win?
MORGAN: Dionne Warwick, it's been a real pleasure. Good luck with the book.
WARWICK: Thank you.
MORGAN: Very nice to meet you.
WARWICK: You as well.
MORGAN: Coming up, a man who has a lot to say on this and just about everything else. The angriest man in America, Lewis Black.
MORGAN: Lewis Black is a man of rare, ferocious opinion who can make just about anything funny but is pretty tough getting out a laugher. So watch out, America, because he's here live uncensored and unleashed.
You're the most angry man in -- probably in the world, aren't you, Lewis?
LEWIS BLACK, COMEDIAN: I would hope so.
MORGAN: I just have this quaint idea that you wake up in the morning sting just erupting out of every orifice.
BLACK: Well, that's because my mother was the angriest woman and still is.
BLACK: I'm serious, if it was not -- as long as there's something -- she's 93. If there was -- as long as she has something to be angry about, I think she's going to live forever.
MORGAN: I mean this is almost a perfect storm for you, isn't it? Everything is going to hell in a hand cart. There's almost no good news anywhere, so for a naturally furious man, this must be utopia.
BLACK: No, it's exhausting. It is more than I can bear. I really want to go back to when I was just talking about weather and Al Roker and how fat he was.
BLACK: This is -- it's too much.
MORGAN: Talking with that -- well, let's start with that.
MORGAN: This is the big issue. Chris Christie, who I spent a day with and was very impressed by, is now being tipped as a potential late-runner for the Republican nomination. And he's creating this huge firestorm. There's no other way to put it, where people are queuing up on TV to say you can't have a fat guy running the country. I don't get it. I don't care what size he is. To me he's a charismatic smart man.
What do you think?
BLACK: Taft weighted, what, 12,000 pounds? I mean William Harold Taft was like a whale. Did you -- you know --
MORGAN: Should it matter?
BLACK: In this country? How could it matter when every third person is a blimp?
BLACK: Who cares? Really, to have the nerve to sit there, you know, give him Spanx, I don't care. Who cares, really? I mean that's the last -- the last thing we need to worry about. What -- about his weight. We certainly -- I mean on the basis -- I mean we don't worry about what's in here? How do you not worry what's inside the brain casing?
That we don't care about. That they just parade them out. We've got a leadership, you know, population who are very -- you know, they're thin and very athletic and a moron.
MORGAN: Well, talking of weight, just go through the Republican nominee list. Are there -- are there any morons in that list as far as you're concerned?
BLACK: No -- oh, no, they're all really bright and seriously intelligent human beings who don't -- you know, first off, no grip on science? Science? No. No science. Did these people ever look? Did they all flunk it? Is that their fear? Do they -- do they think science is a lobby? That the Democrats had funded this lobby called science?
I mean how do you not -- I -- global warming is real.
MORGAN: You're about to self implode there. You're right. I mean it's --
MORGAN: You want water?
BLACK: No, nothing will help.
BLACK: Global warming is real. It's a real thing. These guys didn't make this up to screw with the economy. Like they made it up to do it. You know or that -- or that -- you know, when in the name of god do you have a candidate, Rick Perry, who's running around, he's a genius. He jogs with a gun.
What? What schmuck jogs with a gun and says it as if it's a reason we should vote for him. And I've got a laser sight on it. And a poodle. It's madness.
MORGAN: Who do you most fear becoming the Republican nominee on the basis they could then become president?
BLACK: Sarah Palin.
BLACK: Because -- I don't think she exists.
MORGAN: What do you mean not exists?
BLACK: She doesn't exist. She's a fictional character. She's a fictional character that came to life. I'm serious. I think that someone wrote her.
MORGAN: You couldn't invent someone like Sarah Palin, could you?
BLACK: Well, I mean, that's really what makes her superfiction. It's a whole -- it's meta fiction. Whatever that means, America.
MORGAN: Why is she able to resonate with so many Americans in a positive way?
BLACK: Well, first off I don't know how many Americans. I think there are nine. Have you ever gotten a phone call from somebody asking you your opinion of anything?
MORGAN: No, but I'm British.
BLACK: OK. Well, no one has called me.
MORGAN: No one asks the British for any opinions any more.
BLACK: Yes. Nobody has called me. No, I think -- I mean there's certainly a group of people, you know, because she's a strong woman. You know, and she's -- she certainly speaks her mind. But to think that she's going to -- you know, is a president. You know, when she became the vice presidential candidate, I said this is all really great if it's like "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington." If this is a movie.
But the fact is, is that Jimmy Stewart would make a better candidate for the presidency than her. And he's dead.
MORGAN: You see, some people would be saying, come off it, Lewis, I mean, you're the most opinionated guy that America has ever seen. Sarah Palin, very opinionated. What's wrong with having a strong-minded woman with strong opinions wanting to actually do something for her country? Isn't she just like a -- different political views. Isn't she a female Lewis Black?
BLACK: No, no. First off, she's not as funny.
BLACK: And if she is --
MORGAN: Well, that's a moot point actually.
BLACK: If she is --
MORGAN: She can't be very funny.
BLACK: Yes, no, and -- you know, when she -- you know, it's just the stuff about -- you know, I'm not going to talk to the press. I'm going to do it here in this -- you know, this way. And the mixing of facts up and it's just -- no, we don't have time, we don't have time. We've run out of time.
I would say this is all well and good if we still had an economy. If we still had things that you could follow around with money and it wouldn't matter. But we're in a -- truly an emergency situation and nobody seems to notice.
MORGAN: Hold your fury for a moment while we have a break. When we come back, I want to ask you a very difficult question. Does anything make you happy?
BLACK: Just being here with you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: They kept saying there were weapons of mass destruction, even though Blix told us from the U.N. that they weren't there, folks from the Pentagon told us that they weren't there. It even said so on the Iraqi page on MySpace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Lewis Black, HBO special "Red, White and Screwed," and your latest project is this CD, "The Prophet" which is actually based on a 1990 performance but has only just been aired. What's that all about? Why is this -- why is this kept out of the woodwork?
BLACK: Because Comedy Central probably thought they could make money and also because I thought it would be -- no one knows -- everybody is always -- because I came into this when I was older, so everybody, where did you come from, what were you doing? Like I just, you know, woke up one day and stumbled onto a stage. So this was to give people an idea of what it was like for me when --
MORGAN: I've always (INAUDIBLE) about this is, is that you were absolutely furious about everything even then.
BLACK: I was furious about it and nothing has changed. Global warming --
MORGAN: Probably got worse actually.
BLACK: Well, yes, much worse. Now we don't even talk. Now they don't even talk to each other. Now they're just deaf.
We were better as a country when our leadership were alcoholics. When we had drunks running this country. We had people go to the bar, chat each other up, you're the best, you're the best, Republicans and Democrats throwing up on each other, hugging afterwards, and going and signing bills. This is a group -- you know you hate to use --
MORGAN: Well, Winston Churchill, my greatest ever prime minister, he used to like a few scotches in the afternoon.
BLACK: Yes. Knocking those cognacs back.
MORGAN: Have a sleep -- you know, (INAUDIBLE) abuse a parliament and then be friendly and have dinner with them.
BLACK: Well, that's -- they don't do it anymore. They're acting like a bunch of mean-spirited dry drunks.
MORGAN: Why is America, in terms of its establishment, and Washington in particular, why has it become so dispiriting? Why has it become so angry?
BLACK: I think in part because they have listened to the Tea Party, to the point they've given a disproportion in amount of power much the way in the '60s when I was a kid in college. They gave us -- for the amount of people that are out there, that are dressed up like Ben Franklin, you know, they have given them kind of a disproportionate amount of power.
MORGAN: To be fair to him, when he came in to power, he said look, I'm going to try to change all of this partisan crap that's going on. I'm going to try to do it a better way. What he's found is he can't at the moment. I mean, it's like he's up against this express train of bile. And he can't get anything done.
So he's now having to get angry. Ironically, he's now taking a leaf out of your book.
BLACK: No, he finally had to stand up and go, enough is enough. Part of the problem is I think he picked that -- the thing that we have -- our biggest problem is health care. Baboons take care of themselves better than we do in this country.
So by starting with health care, it just -- everything went into place.
MORGAN: I just can't understand why he got so despised for doing that. He brought 30 million more Americans into a health care plan who couldn't afford it. And everyone says you suck as a president. I didn't get it. Why does that make you a bad president?
BLACK: Well, because they didn't sit down and talk to the Republicans and do whatever it is that the Republicans think that they wanted. And then -- but look at this group. You've got Eric Cantor, you know, who's basically saying, you know, we're not going to give the money -- the FEMA money out until we cut money out of the budget. That's -- I mean, how nasty a person can you be?
And he got -- Virginia got hit, he -- you know, when they tried to do that to him, he voted against it. Come off it. You know, we've got to be able to speak to each other at some point. I don't understand what -- I don't understand what people who are Democrats or Republicans hear.
MORGAN: What do you think has happened to America though? Why has the American business model gone so badly wrong so quickly?
BLACK: Because we -- I think we graduate kids who don't know how to add or subtract. Our school system has gone to hell.
MORGAN: Poor education.
BLACK: I think somewhat poor education. I also think there's a level of greed that's evolved during my lifetime.
MORGAN: But did the American dream, in its purest sense, just get contaminated? This idea that you work hard, you succeed and you enjoy your success got gripped by people who said work hard, succeed and then be greedy and arrogant and fleece the system.
BLACK: Well, there's a group of people -- you know, it became something that they kept -- whether they like it or not, they kept teacher salaries here, and people started -- you had more and more people graduating with business majors. Like you can graduate -- so they're going on to do these things.
The idea became in this country was making money, not making things. We don't make things.
MORGAN: I think that's absolutely the bottom line. It is. It became how do we make money, not how to we build something that makes money.
MORGAN: That's what America has to go back to. I've got to ask you this, because you are wonderfully angry. Like the most angry person I've ever met, in a delightfully funny way. But does anything make you happy anymore? Do you ever have had moments of calm, quiet happiness? BLACK: When -- there are moments like when they're going to tell me -- I know there are moments that are coming, when they say to me, "Keeping up With The Kardashians" is going off the air. I will -- there will be a serenity that I will feel.
MORGAN: You might feel happy. I would be distraught. Lewis Black, thank you. Good luck.
BLACK: Thanks very much.
MORGAN: Coming up next, my prime time exclusive with the great Goldie Hawn. Her four decades in Hollywood and that very famous family of hers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDIE HAWN, ACTRESS: Oh, I'm alive. I blew it. I blew it! Oh, boy, I really blew it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it easy. Boy, you're lucky I broke in.
HAWN: Why did you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought you were dying.
HAWN: Well, that was the whole idea. Now why don't you go back and mind your own business, like everybody else in New York City?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That was the break-through moment for my next guest. Goldie Hawn won the Oscar for the 1969 film "Cactus Flower." Now she's the author of "Ten Mindful Minutes, Giving Our Children and Ourselves Social and Emotional Skills to Reduce Stress and Anxiety For Healthier, Happier Lives."
Goldie, how are you?
HAWN: I'm so well, thank you.
MORGAN: Do you know when you won that Oscar in 1969 for that performance, I was four years old. And now here we are and you look younger than me.
HAWN: No, not at all, not at all.
MORGAN: Do you know what I'm so pleased about. I'm so pleased that your hair is just as fantastic as it's always been.
HAWN: Thank you.
MORGAN: It's always been about your hair to me.
HAWN: I don't know what that is. But actually my hair, if we're going to be talking about my hair, is the -- this is the color of my hair.
MORGAN: Is it really?
HAWN: I swear to God. It's weird. It's weird. So my mom said Goldie, you're a butter blonde. And I went great. Then I got older and she said, you're still a butter blonde. But I did my hair a little bit when I was on "Laugh-In." I thought that would be great. Maybe I'd get it lighter. But other than that --
MORGAN: Do gentlemen prefer blondes?
HAWN: I have no idea. I really don't. I always wanted to be dark and sultry and sexy and have high cheekbones. So everybody wants something different.
MORGAN: That's true, isn't it? Whatever you are, there's always a rosier looking scenario as well.
MORGAN: Millions of women who would love to be Goldie Hawn.
HAWN: Well, I don't know.
MORGAN: You do know. Quietly you know.
HAWN: Well, thank you.
MORGAN: This book is fascinating, "Ten Mindful Minutes." I'll tell you why it's fascinating, because for the last ten years, you've made no movies.
MORGAN: I didn't know it was so long.
MORGAN: Instead you sort of immersed yourself since 9/11 in this kind of ongoing project to educate, nurture and care better for children. Tell me about this metamorphosis in your life and career. Why after 9/11?
HAWN: Well, 9/11 was sort of the catalyst, I guess you could say. But I've always, always taken children's lives very seriously, including my own children. I was a dancing teacher at the age of 17. I had my own dancing school. I taught children, loved them, adored them, thought that was really going to be my life.
I came and danced a bit. I wanted to be a professional dancer, which I was for a while, and then come home and work with children. I had my own children and then eventually started adopting other children in parts of the world. I had -- my children are grown and realize that now is the time --
MORGAN: You have four kids. HAWN: Four kids.
MORGAN: And three grandchildren so far.
MORGAN: Eight little ones that you've had time with.
MORGAN: What are the key things from this book that you think parents need to know about children, that perhaps they haven't thought about?
HAWN: I think that the one thing is they have to -- it isn't about children. This book really is about parents. It's about how much the parents need to actually attune to their child. So in a way, I think that where we are today and the levels of stress that we have, and where we are in terms of, you know, technology, how everything and information is coming so quickly, we're having a lot of issues with stress-related illnesses, ADD, areas where we all feel it's sort of an ADD generation.
MORGAN: It's part of it, what I call the desensitizing of young people. A lot of it I think is driven by video, film, Internet. They just get exposed. I've got three sons, 18, 14 and 10. They get exposed to much worse imagery than I ever could have at their age.
There was no Internet when I was their age.
MORGAN: The television was much, much more cautious.
MORGAN: There was no way of being exposed to this stuff. Now at the click of a button, all hell can break loose. How much of that creates this kind of anxiety to young people, do you think?
HAWN: Well, the brain actually has a tremendous amount to do with it. And I think that the more research we do, the more understanding we have, in layman terms, of how our brains are really imprinted with this is vitally important, which is the program we have in schools is teaching children how their brains work.
It's not the symphony of the brain. It's too difficult. But there are areas of understanding of our emotional system, our prefrontal cortex, how we learn. And these kids from kindergarten all the way up to eighth grade know. Parents need to know this too. And that is, is that what are the opportunities for change? How can we help focus, reduce our own stress and that sort of thing, which ultimately allows us to attune to our children.
So when you say, well, what do you think is issues with the children today, attuning with that is very important. You're right. Internet, negative images, the amount of negative images that they see every day, the desensitization of our children.
MORGAN: Hold that thought. I want to take a quick break. I want to come back and explore that further. I also want to talk about how you came through dark times of your life, and also a little bit about what you think of this Michael Jackson trial, and in particular fame and its corrupting influence as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAWN: Oh, what am I going to do? Well, right now I'm just going to use the F word. Felony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That's Goldie Hawn in the 1996 film "First Wives Club." You know a bit about being a first wife, a second wife, but not a third wife. That's what's fascinating. You've been with the same guy now for 30 years.
HAWN: I have, just about, not quite 30.
MORGAN: You never got married to him.
MORGAN: And you're still happy. What's the trick here?
HAWN: The trick? Well, first of all, you have to like being together, number one. You don't always have to like each other, but you like -- you have to like being together. Relationships are always full of ups and downs.
But the main thing, I will honestly say, that Kurt and I have, aside from joy and laughter and good intimate times, is raising a family. He is the absolute best dad. And his values are exactly the same as mine. And we just love and live with our family. That's it.
MORGAN: Has there been any time in that 30 years when you have seriously thought about getting married? Or have you just both thought, you know what, we've tried this with other people, it didn't work, we're not going to go down there.
HAWN: I don't want to get married. I don't.
MORGAN: Twice bitten.
HAWN: Twice bitten. I mean, it is actually -- we are just so fine and happy. I mean, what's the point? When the kids were little, littler --
MORGAN: Do they care?
HAWN: No, they said don't get married, it's great. You know, I'm not saying that marriage ruins anything. I just know that you try a few times, you fail, what's the difference. It really is waking up every day and making the decision that you want to be there.
And I like that freedom. I like the ability to make that decision. And I think it's really good. We don't lose each other. We don't lose ourselves.
MORGAN: Your book is primarily about happiness and how to seek a happier life. You've been pretty honest in the past about pretty depressive times in your life. When you first became famous, it all got a bit too much for you. And you've been through some low, low periods.
Tell me about the Michael Jackson trial in relation to that, because it's got everybody thinking about there's this huge mega star, and you're watching and reading and hearing this really depressing detail from this case. The sound of him on tape yesterday in particular.
MORGAN: So haunting and really shocking, I found. You've been through this super-fame period of your life. And you didn't like it either. Is it a corrupting thing, fame? Does it just have a bad effect on people?
HAWN: I think that getting back to some of the stuff I'm doing -- and I'm not really selling this, but it really all goes into the same theme -- is really emotional intelligence. If you're not armed with a good upbringing and you have some of these damaging aspects into your psyche, right, and you haven't created sort of that closer connection with your parent in that way, you are bound to have some problems, because when you become successful, you have an unrealistic idea of how people love you.
You don't realize that they're not loving you. There's a separation there. There's a subjectivity there. You have to realize that you're just an object.
People that don't have that and become successful end up doing all kinds of things. They do drugs. They're delusionary. They become obsessive. They can -- Michael, God rest him, buy and buy and buy. He could satiate himself enough with material good. These things don't buy you happiness.
So I think it's a real example of that. When I became depressed, it was very young. And it was when I thought I was going to be a dancer. All of a sudden, I find myself on a TV show. I really had a real plan for my life. I went into a depression for about a year. I lost my smile. It was very scary.
However, I was curious enough to try to wonder why. I was always a joyful person. Therefore, I sought help. I went to a doctor. I went to him for nine years and went to real discovery of self. Then I went into contemplative practice. I realized all these various ways and means to get better.
MORGAN: How are you these days? Do you ever feel depressed these days? Or are you now just this bubbly Goldie that we all assume you always are?
HAWN: I wouldn't call it depression. I think I can get into periods of being low, where you're thinking about things or sometimes you just sort of feel dull. But because I have this capacity, I kind of know what to do. So when you're feeling low or you're having these feelings, I just do the absolute opposite.
I feed myself with all the beautiful things that actually stimulate my mind and my heart and my soul, that actually can create an elevated feeling. The brain is a fascinating thing. And it's there for our working with it.
MORGAN: Have you enjoyed being out of movies for 10 years?
HAWN: Very much. Are you going to do what you do from the age of 21 till the day you die? Is that really what you want to do? Or do you want to transition at a certain time of your life, to create more wonder, more excitement, more learning, more investigation. And in some ways, helping others, right?
If you gained a level of notoriety, there's a responsibility there, I think, to give back in some way. So in terms of what we've been doing in creating this curriculum, and the books, whatever, to bring some elevation, some knowledge to people. For me, that's a great shift.
MORGAN: Now you set the world's and our world's children to right. I say it's time you got back on to the screen. After the break, I'm hearing a little whisper, Goldie. There may be a little project that might be luring you back in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAWN: I hate this place.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know.
HAWN: Can you imagine working here? No color. I'd go crazy. I have to have color around me, I'd go nuts. I hate drab.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just looked right at my dress when you said that.
HAWN: I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, you did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAWN: I love Susan. We had such a good time.
MORGAN: That was called "the Banger Sisters". And I'm told there are rumbling of this new BHO TV drama called "HBO's Viagra Diaries". There's a terrible joke linking those two, but I'm not going to make it.
HAWN: First of all, it's going to be a comedy.
MORGAN: It's a comedy?
MORGAN: It's an HBO comedy series?
HAWN: Here it is: it's a comedy but it actually -- the whole thing will be very deep and really -- but we have a lot of --
MORGAN: Are you excited to be getting back on the acting saddle?
HAWN: Yes, I kind of am excited. It's really -- again, it's a shift. It's a new phase. I mean, in a way, going to television is going to be fun for me again. HBO is a little different. It's a wonderful organization. The people are great. They do quality work, which I love.
MORGAN: I'm going to ask you my two signature questions, because I'm fascinated by what your answers would be. One of them is, how many times have you been properly in love in your life?
HAWN: Properly is really kind of the key. Certainly one. Two, maybe three.
MORGAN: Am I right in thinking husband number two at the moment is being relegated by the hour?
HAWN: I do love you.
MORGAN: Without getting into the nitty-gritty, but I suspect he's slightly on the back burner in the love department.
HAWN: Bless his heart.
MORGAN: How exciting is it to have this daughter who's just as talented as you are as an actress? What a cool thing, isn't it?
HAWN: It's just crazy. Katie and I sometimes just sit together and go, oh, my God. I'm going to see her actually Saturday and we're going to be together. She's making a movie in another city. And we're going to hang out and sleep together. We're so excited. We get to talk and be together.
Katie and I are like two peas in a pod. And the joy is tremendous. What do I say? Very proud. But I have three other kids. And I'm really proud. Oliver's been on a series for six years, on "Rules of Engagement.".
MORGAN: Talented bunch.
HAWN: They're really amazing. Wyatt's been in four movies so far. He's producing a TV show. We've got Boston, who has a PHD in Buddhist studies. I mean, it's an amazing group of kids. They're all incredible.
MORGAN: Here's my other question. What has been -- with the exception of marriage and the birth of your children and so on, what's been the greatest moment of your life? The one you'd relive if you had five minutes to live.
HAWN: So many.
MORGAN: It can't be this interview.
MORGAN: Tempted though I know you will be to cite that.
HAWN: Well, I'll see how this lingers in my memory.
MORGAN: I've always wanted to linger in your memory.
HAWN: I know. I was riding my bike uphill in Aspen. And I stopped and I looked over at this incredible landscape. And it was like sparkling. And I started to cry with joy. That -- and I was alone. That to me was an absolute moment I'll never forget.
Now, I don't want to say that the birth of my children weren't more than that because they were. But that's sort of an obvious, isn't it?
MORGAN: No, I love that. Because it's real life. It's nothing plastic. It's nothing fake. It's nothing Hollywood.
MORGAN: Goldie, it's been a total joy.
HAWN: Me, too.
MORGAN: Can we do it for longer next time?
MORGAN: Thank you. Been lovely to meet you. The wonderful Goldie Hawn. That's all for us tonight. "AC 360" starts right now.