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Lady Friends of Dr. Murray Take the Stand

Aired October 4, 2011 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from Los Angeles, California. You might say it was ladies` night at the trial of the man accused of killing pop star Michael Jackson, because many, many lady friends of defendant Dr. Conrad Murray took the stand. Check this out.





NICOLE ALVAREZ, WITNESS: My name is Nicole Alvarez.

DEBORAH BRAZIL, PROSECUTOR: Did you meet him in a social setting?


BRAZIL: And the two of you formed a relationship?


BRAZIL: Did you meet him at a social-type club?


BRAZIL: Were you working in the club?


BRAZIL: Did he give you his telephone number?

BELLA: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

BRAZIL: During that first meeting, did the defendant give you his telephone number?


BRAZIL: Did the two of you spend time together?


BRAZIL: Did Conrad Murray refer to you as his girlfriend?

He would tell them that, "No, I can`t talk to you, because that`s my girlfriend over there," and would point me out.

BRAZIL: In March of 2009, did you give birth to a son?


BRAZIL: And that son`s father is Conrad Murray? Is that accurate?

ALVAREZ: Absolutely. As a professional actress, my daily duties consist of maintaining my instrument, going on several castings.

BRAZIL: When you refer to an instrument, what are you referring to?

ALVAREZ: Myself. Myself. As an actor, your instrument is yourself.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hmm. Excuse me, I`m adjusting my instrument. Was Michael Jackson`s doctor on the phone, gabbing with his girlfriends as his famous patient died?

On the stand today, the many lady friends of defendant Conrad Murray. You just got to meet them right there. Apparently, Conrad likes to play doctor. Because this morning we saw a steady stream of gorgeous witnesses, plus one from last night.

So who are these women in his life? Well, Michelle Bella says she`s employed as a, quote/unquote, dancer. Dr. Murray reportedly met her at a strip club. Sade Anding identifies herself as a cocktail waitress.

Now, Nicole Alvarez was an actress, who was reportedly also at one time an exotic dancer, and she is the mother of Dr. Conrad Murray`s seventh child. And by the way, he`s still married to somebody else. Hmm.

Well, Nicole Alvarez may be the most crucial witness heard today. She has a son with Dr. Conrad Murray and the three of them still live together at her apartment. It was there that Dr. Murray apparently shipped some mysterious packages that prosecutors say were packed with Propofol. Listen to this.


ALVAREZ: I do recall picking up a package in the lobby area.

BRAZIL: And you didn`t ask him what was in these packages, did you?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Conrad Murray guilty, or is he just a player? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

Joining me right now, two fantastic guests: anesthesiologist Dr. Natalie Strand and "E!`s" chief news correspondent, Ken Baker.

First, I`ve got to start with you, Dr. Strand. We heard testimony today that Conrad Murray had Propofol, a surgical knockout drug, that`s only supposed to be used in a hospital setting, shipped to his girlfriend`s condo, and it was left in the common area, where everybody`s going to and from. What is the potential danger, and how reckless is that?

DR. NATALIE STRAND, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: Well, this is really reckless. I mean, in my mind, this further illustrates his lack of judgment, his poor judgment, and operating way below the standard of care.

When you leave Propofol in a common area, anybody can take it. This is a drug that can be abused -- abused intravenously. So anybody of an age that knows how to do intravenous drugs could steal this or sell it on the black market. It`s extremely irresponsible.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re talking about maybe somebody with a drug problem or whatever sees that and says, "Let me shoot that up and see what happens."

STRAND: Exactly!

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s extraordinary.

Now I want to go to Ken Baker, "E!`s" chief news correspondent. I think this very well could be the moment that defines this trial. And what I`m talking about was the moment that Nicole Alvarez, who is Dr. Conrad Murray`s girlfriend, currently, talked about what she does for a living and how she describes herself. Check this out.


ALVAREZ: As a professional actress, my daily duties can consist of maintaining my instrument, going on several castings throughout town, meeting with different casting directors.

BRAZIL: When you refer to an instrument, what are you referring to?

ALVAREZ: Myself.

BRAZIL: I see.

ALVAREZ: Myself. As an actor, your instrument is yourself.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she`s got a pretty good instrument there. She`s there with a sleeveless top; she`s got very buffed arms. But I have to say that, when that was said, everybody immediately started just mimicking it, and not to be mean, but it was just -- it was just such a Hollywood moment.

KEN BAKER, CHIEF NEWS CORRESPONDENT, "E!": Yes, well, I have to say, I was in the front row. I was inside the courtroom, and it may have been a defining moment outside, but I really honestly didn`t feel that inside. I felt like the jury wasn`t picking up on maybe the subtleties that everyone on the outside is, because we have all the information.

You have to understand, the jury doesn`t have all the information. They don`t have all the background. They don`t know that she was reportedly an exotic dancer and that she -- her last credit was 2008. She played a "hot chick" in a movie no one`s ever heard of or seen.

But I think that what was interesting to me was that she was very much -- you could tell she was trying to make eye contact with Dr. Murray throughout. He was doing his best not to look at her. She was sort of playful on the stand. And I think that the jury probably did pick up on that.

But I think that this was a day where we had all these girlfriends, and I think it was interesting for all the observers outside. But inside, the judge has limited so much of the scope of what can be questioned to these women, what they can ask, what they can reveal, that I don`t think the jury -- it`s making the impact on the jury that you might think, or at least the titillating kind of impact that you might think.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right, Ken. Because they didn`t say -- oh, there`s somebody...

BAKER: There I am. There`s my hand.


BAKER: There`s my hand.


BAKER: I chased her out after...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There she is. And let me say this. There is Nicole Alvarez. Ken Baker, who we have on set here, talking to Nicole Alvarez as she left. Most of the witnesses left through the side door or the back door. She walked right out the front, greeted the cameras.

And I have to ask Ken, was she auditioning? She says she goes on casting calls. She`s got national television coverage. She`s there, on the stand, looking fabulous with her toned arms. And was she auditioning?

BAKER: Well, Jane, I mean, you worked in this town for a long time. We`ve known each other a long time. You know what this town is about.


BAKER: It`s about putting on the show. It`s about looking good. And she did that. And I think that her walking out the front, you know, evading the "E!" microphone, kind of being playful with it, it was interesting.

But I have to say, in the courtroom itself, I really felt as though there was exotic dancers on the stand today, but there was very little exotic about the testimony. I mean, really, it really just -- it didn`t play as dramatic as you would think inside the courtroom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re absolutely right, because they referred to social clubs. They didn`t call them strip clubs. "Where did you meet?" And I`m not saying she had worked as an exotic dancer, purportedly, in Las Vegas...

BAKER: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But one of the other -- "Where did you know Dr. Murray from?" "Oh, a social club." They didn`t say a strip club.

BAKER: Right. Well, this is an interesting thing. Yesterday, wherever there was talk of the condom catheter that`s become this infamous...


BAKER: ... instrument of another sort, by the way, but whenever that happened, I would look at the jury, and the jury would be like, "Oh, this is kind of weird, condom catheter," and they`re paying attention and they`re writing down. They`re all sort of miffed by the whole thing.


BAKER: When this whole social club thing came up, I really felt like, for most of the jurors, it just went right over their heads, because they`re not consuming the media. They don`t have all the information that we have.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They didn`t know that Dr. Conrad Murray has a type, as they say?

BAKER: Well, I will tell you this. The fact is, I mean, these were very pretty women.


BAKER: No one`s going to argue that. But the point is this. I mean, Dr. Conrad Murray has seven children by five different women. He`s in this room. And I have to tell you, I`m sitting six feet away from him, and I`m thinking, "I wouldn`t want to be him right now." This is awkward and uncomfortable. I mean, anyone who`s ever been in a room with your ex, he was in there with a bunch of women he was with at the same time, and they apparently didn`t even know it. So it had to be really awkward. Probably the most awkward, uncomfortable thing for him.

But I`ll tell you what. The guy, he should go play poker, because he has a poker face. You can`t even really tell what he`s thinking half the time. He`s just this blank slate. And he`s been coached very well, apparently, by his defense team.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, could one of Conrad Murray`s girlfriends actually have heard the final desperate moments of Michael Jackson`s life? Sade Anding, a Houston cocktail waitress, was on the phone, she says, with Dr. Murray the day Michael Jackson died. Listen to what she told the court. This is also a bombshell.


ANDING: I was just talking, and the next thing you know, I was like - - I said "Hello? Hello?" and I didn`t hear anything. And that`s when I pressed the phone against my hear, and I heard mumbling of voices. It sounded like the phone was maybe in his pocket or something. It was "shhh," and I heard coughing. And nobody answered.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Strand, could that coughing have been Michael Jackson going into arrest, dying?

STRAND: It`s so hard to say what it could have been. It definitely could have been him in respiratory distress. That does lead to coughing, but it also could have been initial attempts at poorly-executed CPR. It`s hard to say what the coughing was. It could have been Dr. Murray. It could have been Michael. But certainly gasping for breaths and coughing go hand in hand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. So I will say this. That happened at 11:57. Dr. Conrad Murray did not have 911 called until 23 minutes later. Even though he told paramedics who showed up, "Oh, it happened right before I called you." So there`s discrepancy; there`s deception. Let`s call it what it is. Lies.

All right. More on Dr. Conrad Murray and his lady friends in just a bit. We`re also taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.


SUNNY HOSTIN, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": The inference could be made, not only does he have poor judgment in his life, his personal life, he now has poor judgment as a physician, as well, because he`s on the phone talking to these women instead of paying attention to his client. I mean, he now appears, I think, to so many as, like, Dr. Feelgood. He`s Mr. Loverman.




DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They believe Michael Jackson was, in fact, playing possum. That he was awake but feigning sleep until the doctor left the room. He then got up, went to the medicine cabinet, took these eight pills of Lorazepam, this anti-anxiety medication, and also injected more Propofol into an IV.

HAMID TOWFIGH, DEPUTY D.A.: He would have had to have injected himself twice, 200-milligram injections of Propofol, to get the levels that the coroner said that they had. That`s not possible, because after the first 100-milligram injection that Michael Jackson supposedly gave himself, he would have passed out.

TOM MESEREAU, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s fantasy. It`s speculation; it`s a desperate defense. And the only possible witness to that would be Conrad Murray, and after he didn`t come clean with the paramedics, the police, and the physicians at the hospital, how can you believe anything he says?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am so delighted to be here with, well, one of the men I admire most in the United States of America, one of the best attorneys. I have always said -- jokingly, of course, but there`s a great truth in it -- if I ever get in trouble, I`m going to call Tom Mesereau, have him on my speed dial. One of the great attorneys, who successfully defended Michael Jackson in the 2005 child molestation trial.

And I watched you in action, Tom, and I learned a very important lesson. There`s no such thing as an open-and-shut case. When you defended Michael Jackson, a lot of people thought, it`s -- the prosecution`s got a slam dunk here, and they were kind of walking around like this. And you very quietly came in there and decimated their case. So taking a look at this case, how do you think the prosecution is doing thus far?

MESEREAU: So far, they`re doing very well. They`re presenting a very logical, orderly, clear, concise case, and I think it has impact. I don`t think they`re confusing anybody with what they`re bringing out on direct examination. I don`t think the defense has been able to do very much on cross yet, but you know, a trial is not over until it`s over. You can`t score it like a ball game. It`s not an inning-by-inning type of process. It all hangs together somehow at the end, and we may -- we may be in store for some surprises, you know, by the defense. So I wouldn`t sell them short yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no. And if they`re not doing gangbusters in the prosecution`s case, then you know that the prosecution is really, really in trouble.

Now, I want to play a little bit more of the sound that we have, and Nicole Alvarez said something very interesting. She met Michael Jackson himself, and she was so excited about this, and he was very interested in her unborn child, the child she was having by Dr. Conrad Murray. Check this out.


ALVAREZ: Michael was very interested in the baby. He saw my stomach grow with the pregnancy, and he wanted to schedule visits so that he could see my son.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It would appear that Dr. Conrad Murray, who didn`t even tell her that he was taking her, his girlfriend, to see Michael Jackson, and then she was just overcome with excitement, was using Michael Jackson as some kind of prize to reward his girlfriends or to show off to his girlfriends. Do you think that`s inappropriate for a doctor?

MESEREAU: I don`t find that`s terribly significant. You know, in the world of Michael Jackson, he was the -- he was the greatest celebrity on the planet. He was the greatest musical genius on the planet. And most people who met him, for any length of time, wanted to introduce friends, family, et cetera, so I don`t read too much into this. And I don`t think the jury in the end is going to care too much about the fact that he had a lot of pretty girlfriends.

What they`re going to care about is what they said in combination with all the rest of the evidence. And that`s where he`s got a real problem. He looks unprofessional. He looks mediocre. He looks narcissistic and selfish. At a time when he should be caring about his patient, he seems to be always caring about himself. And I think it may take him down.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I want you to listen to this. It`s Sade Anding, the second of Dr. Conrad Murray`s lady friends to testify today. And she tells the court what Conrad said when police came to talk to her in the wake of Michael Jackson`s death. Listen to this.


ANDING: He told me, "What? Why? Why are they calling you? I`m so sorry that they`re contacting you. And, you know, now you`re in this, I`m going to give you my lawyer`s number. Call him and make sure before you speak to LAPD, you have my lawyer present."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So Dr. Conrad Murray wants to make sure, not that she sees any lawyer, that she is with his lawyer when she talks to the cops. What do you make of it?

MESEREAU: Again, I think this is a normal human reaction. He`s on the hot seat. He`s in trouble. He knows it. He`s already retained counsel. And now this -- one of his girlfriends is about to be approached by the police. He suggests she talk to a lawyer.

I don`t read a great deal into this. I think this is not something that`s going to take him down. And I think in the jury room, they`re going to be focused on the really damning evidence that came out of these women`s mouths, not the fact that they exist.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What was the most damning thing, do you think?

MESEREAU: Oh, I think that he`s talking to them while he should be monitoring Michael Jackson. That he`s talking to them and concerned about them while Michael Jackson is basically dying. And -- and it just seems like everything he does is about me, me, me and not about the patient, patient, patient. It`s a real problem.

Even when Michael perhaps could have been saved, all he seems to think about is himself and his future and how he`s going to squirm out of this. It`s really -- really damning evidence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, when we come back after the break, I want to talk about this little tiny thing here. Because I was trying to figure out what a milligram is. I`m like most people, I don`t know what the heck a milligram is.

MESEREAU: Don`t ask me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s what I`m saying. You`re an attorney and you don`t know. Now, they keep talking about milligrams in this case, back and forth, both sides -- excuse me -- and it would seem to me that that`s going to confuse the jurors. A hundred and fifty-five thousand milligrams of Propofol. What the heck is that?

Well, we found out. We did a little research, and we found out it`s about four gallons, a little over four gallons. But I think the prosecution could lose the jury if they don`t start talking about gallons and a cap full, something that somebody can understand. Because this is a milligram.

We`ll be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that he`s a cad and sees lots of women or cheats on them doesn`t make him not a good doctor, arguably. They should focus in on what`s important. And we`re getting into this side drama that all these big, high-profile dramas do. And I think it`s going to, in the end, it may hurt them.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am here with famed defense attorney, Tom Mesereau, and I want to tell you what happened, as soon as we went to commercial break, about five people raced at me, and they said, no, this isn`t -- what did I say originally? Anyway, this is 25 milligrams and this is -- you know what?

Here`s the point. What I`m saying is precisely the point. I`m not a doctor, and milligrams and milliliters leave me very confused. There has been a lot of testimony about milligrams and milliliters in this case, and it actually is very confusing to laypeople, such as myself, OK? That is extremely confusing.

So I want to go back to Tom Mesereau, because it was a perfect example. They told me, and I immediately got it wrong, because milligrams is not something I can wrap my head around. And unfortunately, for the prosecution, there is a lot of talk of milligrams of Propofol. Is that going to confuse the jury?

MESEREAU: I don`t think so, because they haven`t...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just me? Just going to confuse me?

MESEREAU: Well, no, they haven`t called their forensic experts yet. Presumably, they`ll call good experts who will explain this very clearly, reduce it to very understandable terms, use visual aids to point out what they`re trying to explain to the jury. And I would think and hope that they will do their job effectively in making this very, very clear and understandable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you know that in past cases, what`s happened is that the prosecution has sometimes gotten bogged down. The 1995 Michael Jackson -- O.J. Simpson case was a perfect example of the DNA evidence dragged on and on and on. And it became overwhelming for the jury.

MESEREAU: Well, I agree with you. That was a time when DNA was not very well understood. In fact, half the trial judges in America were rejecting DNA at that point. It wasn`t known really whether -- how reliable it was. It wasn`t a household world like it is now.

And the defense did take advantage of that. You`re right. They did call experts. They did complicate it. And they also worked on -- remember CC`s of blood? They said CC`s of blood were missing, and the jury had to understand what that was. I think they did. The defense was able to explain what they wanted them to know and to confuse what they didn`t want them to know in that case. They did a very good job.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I really feel that the prosecution needs to say, OK, Dr. Conrad Murray told cops two days after Michael Jackson died that he gave him 25 milligrams of Propofol. That`s approximately this much, OK? That`s approximately -- show it, if you can, this much, right here. This much, OK? That I can understand. That I can understand.

And I think that`s what they need to get to and talk in gallons and pints and capfuls, as opposed to milligrams and milliliters. Your thoughts on that?

MESEREAU: Well, to me, the most important thing is how powerful whatever -- whatever he was given is. Whether you reduce it to some type of range that nobody understands is not the central issue. The issue is how much could kill him? How much should he have been given? What`s the impact of everything this doctor did? That all has to be explained.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Tom Mesereau, it`s so delightful having you on our show and you are just incredible at analyzing what`s happening during a case. Because we could think that the prosecution`s winning; we could think the defense is winning. We really don`t know what`s happening in the minds of jurors.

All right. We`re just getting started. Three girlfriends all talking about their Dr. Murray.



NICOLE ALVAREZ, WITNESS: My name`s Nicole Alvarez.

SADE ANDING, WITNESS: Sade, s-a-d-e, Anding.



DEBORAH BRAZIL, PROSECUTOR: Did you meet him in Las Vegas?


ALVAREZ: I met him out in a social setting.

BRAZIL: When you met the defendant, you were working at Sullivan`s?


BRAZIL: And he came in as a patron?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He appears to be greedy. He appears to be lazy. And he is a player.

ALVAREZ: As a professional actress, my daily duties consist of maintaining my instrument. As an actor, your instrument is yourself.

BRAZIL: Did you meet him at a social-type club?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s parading these girlfriends around to Michael Jackson`s house.

BRAZIL: Did you and Conrad Murray communicate back and forth?


BRAZIL: Did you give birth to a son?


BRAZIL: And that son`s father is Conrad Murray? Is that accurate?

ALVAREZ: Absolutely.

ANDING: He would tell them that, no, I can`t talk to you because that`s my girlfriend over there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s using his relationship with Michael Jackson to get all these women in various cities.

ALVAREZ: Michael was very interested in the baby. He saw my stomach grow with the pregnancy and he wanted to schedule visits so that he could see my son.

ANDING: Now you`re in this, I`m going to give you my lawyer`s number, call him and make sure, before you speak to LAPD, you have my lawyer present.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love the term "parade of girlfriends" today in court. That is brilliant and I think that`s exactly what`s going into the mind of the jurors now.

DR. CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: Please, don`t worry. As long as I keep god in my heart and you in my life, I will be fine.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And take a look at the Los Angeles County Criminal Courts building. That`s where all this explosive testimony happened just a little while ago, where we learned Dr. Conrad Murray was, well, quite the ladies` man, you might say.

Three of Dr. Conrad Murray`s ladies sashayed up to the witness stand. And you might have thought, wow, they were -- well, you`re kind of seeing triple a little bit. Baby mama, as she`s being called in the media, Nicole Alvarez, on the far right, had some very deep things to say.


ALVAREZ: As a professional actress, my daily duties consist of maintaining my instrument, going on several castings throughout town, meeting with different casting directors.

BRAZIL: When you refer to an instrument, what are you referring to?

ALVAREZ: Myself.

BRAZIL: I see.

ALVAREZ: Myself. As an actor, your instrument is yourself.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she was showing off her instrument on the stand. Some people thought maybe it was a little inappropriate. She had a sleeveless top on, showing very toned arms. You`ve got a good instrument, Nicole Alvarez, we all agree on that.

But joining me once again, Dr. Natalie Strand, anesthesiologist, and Ken Baker, E! News` chief correspondent; you were in court, Ken. Here`s what occurred to me. Ok, we heard that Dr. Murray is kind of playing, he`s a player. He`s married, yet he has a child with Nicole Alvarez, and then there`s these other women, who are -- some of them are -- one`s a cocktail waitress, one`s a former exotic dancer, one`s an exotic dancer. They are all there.

You would think that Nicole Alvarez, the one who works on her instrument, would be furious with him and might exhibit that anger on the witness stand.

KEN BAKER, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, E! NEWS: She exhibited the opposite. In fact, Jane, after she left, she went back somewhere in Los Angeles to a home that she shares with Conrad Murray. They are still living together. She is still Conrad Murray`s live-in girlfriend. They have this young child, who`s about two years old now, together. And she, apparently, doesn`t have a problem with it. I mean, if you just judge her by her actions.

But one thing I thought that was interesting was she was almost giddy at times on the stand, because this is the guy that she woke up, apparently, in bed with this morning, went to the courthouse, going to the courthouse, you`re on trial for manslaughter, I`m going to testify possibly against you and incriminate you. And at one point, they`re like, can you identify Conrad Murray, and she`s like, over there. It was very unusual. She was definitely one of the most animated, unusual witnesses that we`ve had.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And again, she walked out the front door, which is also unusual, and you might say that she was capturing the media attention for all it`s worth. She is an actress. And you know what, it`s a tough town, I don`t hold it against her. We all got to do what we`ve got to do.

Allen in Maryland, your question or thought -- Allen?

ALLEN, MARYLAND (via telephone): regarding Nicole`s testimony, I don`t know if anyone else noticed this or not, but in the beginning, of course, we all saw the fashion look and her audition-type atmosphere that she portrayed, but then they had a break in the courtroom. And when she came back, she was completely stoic and almost -- there was a little bit of a frustration, and she shook her head a bit. She had this different look on her face completely.

My question is, who do you think spoke to her? Someone obviously talked to her during that break and told her to just chill out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that`s fascinating. Ken Baker, do you think the prosecution -- she`s technically a prosecution witness. Was she almost on the verge of becoming a giddy hostile witness?

BAKER: I think there were times it was like that. But one of the most interesting things, I think the caller is definitely picking up on something. There was a distinct change in her behavior from the first part of her examination to the second part. There definitely was a change.

Maybe it was nerves, maybe she relaxed, maybe someone did have a talk with her. I did not see any attorneys interact with her, but what was clear is that there definitely was a change.

I think that what was also interesting was that the examination by DA Brazil. She was -- she was trying to use this evidentiary examination into a character assassination of sorts.


BAKER: That`s really what she was trying to do. But she was very limited by the judge with what she could ask. So the way she asked the questions became as interesting as the questions she was asking. So she was almost playful and flirtatious with all these women. So DA Brazil is like, so, you met and he gave you his number, huh? I think she was trying to send a message to the jury that, this guy`s kind of shady over here, I can`t really get into it, but wink and a nod.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and Dr. Natalie Strand, I want to get back to this issue of what the prosecution`s pitfalls might be. And again, it was kind of funny that when I said this was a milligram, because you had just told me it was 25 milligrams. That went in one ear and out the other and I went and said, this is a milligram, and everybody rushed, no, it`s 25 milligrams. But it actually illustrated my point.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s that laypeople -- milligrams is not a concept that`s easy to grasp, whereas we are brought up with quarts and pints and gallons. What does the prosecution need to do to make sure that the defense in its case doesn`t confuse with us so many milligrams and milliliters that they basically throw up their hands and they say I`m confused, that`s reasonable doubt?

STRAND: Well, I think that they would be well served to sort of paint a very broad picture because it`s really hard to ask jurors to understand medical testimony. And you`re right, it`s very confusing; milligrams, milliliters, how much is normal? They don`t know. We don`t expect them to know.

I think what they should do is return to the picture. There`s a cardiologist practicing a specialty that he`s not boarded in. He`s doing it in a home which is completely inappropriate. He`s doing it without monitors, and he doesn`t even know how to do CPR. So this is a doctor that`s exhibiting very poor judgment. And whether the jury understands milligrams or not, it really shouldn`t matter; it`s a cardiologist doing anesthesia.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Conrad Murray`s girlfriend talked about meeting Michael Jackson for the first time. Check this out. This is fascinating.


BRAZIL: Did you, in fact, meet Mr. Jackson?


BRAZIL: And who introduced you?

ALVAREZ: Dr. Murray. It actually was a surprise. I remember him saying he wanted me to meet someone. I was speechless when I met him. I couldn`t believe I was meeting Michael Jackson.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ken Baker, obviously, it would seem that Dr. Conrad Murray is using Michael Jackson to impress the ladies.

BAKER: Right. Well, as you know, I was in the front row, when she was giving that testimony, one word came to my mind -- star struck. She completely came across as this star struck kind of woman. And it made me sort of question, you know, this kind of person that Conrad Murray would be with, and he`s living with her. So she didn`t really win points for Conrad Murray today.

But the more that she seemed kind of flighty and star struck and giddy. And here we are, by the way, there`s family members right behind me, just 20 feet from her, 30 feet from her, grieving the loss of this icon, this pop star, and she`s laughing and giddy about it. So I thought it was extremely inappropriate, the way she was acting and describing like that.

And I think that at the end of the day, I`m just glad, just being in between her and the family, that the parents weren`t there, Janet -- there were very few Jackson family there today, because it would have been very awkward, to be honest with you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to ask you about the appropriateness of a doctor using a superstar patient as kind of a way to show off to his girlfriend. When you blur the boundaries like that, aren`t you opening the door for inappropriate behavior?

STRAND: Of course. I mean, it further shows his lack of judgment. You`re not supposed to, as a physician, release private patient information to anyone. Much -- I mean, not your girlfriend, not your wife, not anybody. So when he goes home and tells people, I`m Michael Jackson`s doctor, I do this for Michael Jackson, he`s breaking the law there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, it`s interesting, because this is Hollywood. Ken, you know, there`s many psychiatrists who treat very, very famous people. And they don`t wander around going, oh, you know, I treat this star or I treat that star.

BAKER: Right. In fact, it`s usually the opposite. Discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to treating celebrities in Hollywood. Every doctor knows that. But something that was interesting that people aren`t really talking about today.

You know, we`ve been focusing a lot on the titillating aspects of all this. Something that was interesting is that she testified, Nicole Alvarez that Conrad Murray would go to work every day at about 9:00 at night and come back the next day at 10:00 a.m. That`s strange. That definitely suggests that he`s going for one purpose -- to put Michael Jackson to sleep. He was a sleep doctor. That`s why he was going. That`s the message that I got out of that testimony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love it. You just coined a new phrase, "sleep doctor". This is the trial of sleep doctor, Conrad Murray.

All right. We`ve got to leave it right there.

Any minute now -- thank you, fantastic panel -- Amanda Knox`s emotional homecoming. She is, last I heard, in the air; her plane is about to touch ground in the United States of America. Four years she`s been waiting for this. And we`re going to talk to somebody who knows Amanda`s family very well and we`re taking your calls.

Here is a live shot of the airport in Seattle. Everybody in the Seattle area waiting anxiously for the arrival of Amanda Knox who was convicted of murder in Italy, who served four years behind bars before her conviction was overturned and she was freed.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have ordered the immediate release from prison of Knox, Amanda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are thankful to the court for having the courage to look for the truth and to overturn this conviction.

AMANDA KNOX, RELEASED FROM ITALIAN PRISON (through translator): I haven`t done the things that they are suggesting that I have done.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Amanda Knox is going to be on a plane back to the US of A.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to the Italian news agency, ANSA, she boarded this plane in Rome and took off for London -- her final destination, Seattle.

KNOX: My trust in the authority and the police have been damaged.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to recover from this horrible ordeal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said one of the first things she wants to do is lie on green grass.

KNOX: The only thing that now separates me from four years ago is my suffering.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight in the Amanda Knox story. Amanda`s plane will set down on US soil, well, in less than a half an hour -- 8:12 eastern, 5:12 Seattle time. You are looking at a live picture of the airport. So right now, about now, they`re saying to Amanda Knox and her family, ok, please put your seats in the upright position and stow away any bags that you might have. She`s getting ready to come back home, after four years, four long years in an Italian prison.

The American student dubbed "Foxy Knoxy" by the media was found -- well, they threw out the murder conviction. They threw out the sexual assault conviction involving her roommate, Meredith Kercher. The prosecution accused Amanda, her then-boyfriend, plus a man from the Ivory Coast of murdering Meredith Kercher in a satanic sex game gone horribly wrong.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They are acquitted of offense of charges A, B, C, D; we have overturned, so Knox, Amanda is free and Sollecito, Raffaele as well.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: After four years behind bars, it was an amazing scene yesterday when her conviction was overturned by a jury that included two judges. That`s how it works in Italy. And then she got the heck out of that prison and got on a plane, ultimately today, in Rome, heading for the United States.

And she is just giddy. There she is, at the airport, getting ready to go home. And right now she is in the sky, getting ready to land in Seattle. Amanda left Perugia for Rome yesterday, she then flew to London, and now to Seattle where extra security plans are in place to greet her.

But there are two sides to this story. The family of the victim, Meredith Kercher, very, very, very shaken by this decision to overturn Amanda Knox`s original conviction and let the American go.


LYLE KERCHER, MEREDITH KERCHER`S BROTHER: The two were released yesterday were not the guilty party, we are now, obviously, left wondering, who was the other person or people. And really for us, it feels very much almost like back to square one and the search goes on, really, to find out what truly happened.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think? Give me a call, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Was justice served by releasing Amanda Knox? 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to my exclusive guest; we`re very delighted to have tonight Jim Lovering, a family friend of the Knox`s. You are in Seattle. First of all, what is the mood as this plane carrying Amanda Knox and her family gets ready to touch down in the United States?

JIM LOVERING, KNOX FAMILY FRIEND: Well, we`re feeling great about it. You know, this is what we`ve been working for, for the last 3 1/2 years. You know, at the same time, we`re very aware that a young woman was murdered and this story can never have a happy ending for that reason.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I certainly agree with you there, and even though Amanda has now been cleared in Meredith`s death, certainly it`s no surprise that the family of the victim, Meredith Kercher`s family, they say they`re not ready to talk to Amanda yet. Listen to this.


KERCHER: It would seem strange, perhaps, to have certain dialogues with the other parties at this point; that we may then have to go back on 12 months, 15, 18 months` time, really. So I think the best decision, really, would be to maintain a mutual respect for each other and perhaps maintain a bit of distance and try to get some normality back into all of our lives.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Travis Mayfield, KOMO 1000 news radio based out of Seattle, tell me, what is the mood in Seattle as this plane gets ready to land in Seattle carrying Amanda Knox?

TRAVIS MAYFIELD, KOMO 1000 NEWS RADIO: Yes, Jane, there are folks who have actually been camped out at Sea-Tac airport in Seattle since this morning, basically well-wishers, along with media from around the globe here. But the well-wishers, you know, basically want to say welcome home and we`re glad to have you. We`re happy this ordeal is over for the Knox family, for Amanda.

We`ve actually been interviewing folks in the suburb where she lives. They`ve named a sandwich after her at a local deli. There are balloons and streamers and all sorts of things. So the city is very excited.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`ll have more on the other side.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you worry about the most?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some sort of post-traumatic stress disorder?

EDDA MELAS, AMANDA KNOX`S MOTHER: Yes. And the one thing Amanda has asked for is privacy. She does not want to face media, and even the thought of a lot of well-wishers at one point in time is overwhelming to her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That was from "Good Morning, America", and I have to tell you that such emotion when the verdict was announced that the conviction was overturned, Amanda Knox just sobbed uncontrollably. We`re going to show you that in a second.

But first out to Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst; what is it going to be like for her to adjust to life in the United States after being locked up in an Italian prison for four years where the entire world was talking about her being foxy Knoxy and painted as some kind of sex maniac vixen?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, it`s going to be a tough transition. Four years in prison -- I don`t care if you spend four days in prison or jail, Jane -- that is not a place you want to spend any time whatsoever.

So when she gets back, you heard what her parents said. There`s always a possibility there could be some PTSD. But I`m sure she`s going to get some counseling; she needs to get some counseling. She has to have some counseling; she needs to see a doctor. And she needs her privacy.

We hear that she just wants to come back and lay in the green grass. Well, you know, I hope she`s able to do that tonight, tomorrow, and begin her healing process. But it`s going to -- it`s going to be tough. It`s going to be tough, because there are so many people that have mixed emotions about her.

The evidence wasn`t there. That`s the bottom line. She`s now a free woman. And I would never, ever want to go back to Italy if I were her. Her experience there was just incredible.

The prosecutor there, Jane, the prosecutor he`s just basically making up the story. What he thought had happened when he visited the crime scene, but there was no evidence to support it whatsoever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right. He made up a story that it was a sex game gone wrong. He accused this young woman of raping his roommate, sexually assaulting the roommate in a satanic sex game gone wrong. But a reporter told us yesterday that she approached this prosecutor and asked him and he said, "Well, I really don`t know what happened." So he actually admitted he had no idea what happened even though he made these horrific sexually charged accusations.

Again, Amanda Knox`s plane`s about to land.

Susan, Washington, your questions or thoughts, Susan.

SUAN, WASHINGTON (via telephone): My thought is number one about the press and her privacy, I think it`s awesome that there`s a lot of press there to greet her. As somebody who suffered from PTSD myself I would really encourage the people, since she`s lost these last four years, to let her have, I don`t, the next four or however much she needs to get well with --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. Travis Mayfield, very quickly, what`s going to happen once she lands?

MAYFIELD: And that`s the big question, is whether she`ll speak or not. We do know that she`s going to be whisked right away, and then likely her privacy will be protected. But there are so many reporters here. That`s a tough job for the family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So there is a possibility that she might stop and say a few words. Everybody wants to hear from her. I mean that is the main thing. People really want to hear what Amanda Knox has to say, just to hear her speak in English for a couple of seconds.

And we`re certainly so happy for the Knox family. It`s been a long fight. They`ve gone into tremendous financial difficulties, but now they can turn it all around. Thank you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s an old saying, "Tell me who you walk with, and I will it tell you who you are." We today got an extraordinary glimpse into this secret life of Dr. Conrad Murray, specifically Conrad`s ladies. They took the stand, one after the other in rapid succession, and certainly the prosecution was clustering them together to try to make a point that they couldn`t make outright, namely that this guy is a player, he`s a ladies` man, he`s a charmer, and the prosecution contends that he was on the phone with some of these women at the time that he should have been taking care of Michael Jackson.

In fact, on the way to the hospital, in the ambulance, he is calling his girlfriend. Even though he`s contending that there`s a chance that he might be able to revive Michael Jackson, so why is he on the phone with his girlfriend at that time? Incriminating stuff, but it`s up to the jury to read between the lines.

"NANCY GRACE" is up next.