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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Secret Michael Jackson Recording

Aired October 5, 2011 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to the voice of Michael Jackson.

MICHAEL JACKSON, POP STAR: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: Your honor, I am an innocent man. I, therefore, plead not guilty.

JACKSON: When people leave my show, I want them to say, "I`ve never seen nothing like this in my life. Go. Go."

NICOLE ALVAREZ, WITNESS: It`s Michael Jackson.

DEBORAH BRAZIL, PROSECUTOR: Must have been pretty exciting?

ALVAREZ: Definitely.

JACKSON: He`s the greatest entertainer in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, that`s enough.

JACKSON: I hurt, you know? I hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Michael!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Michael!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Michael!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the most heartbreaking days of testimony yet. Good evening, everyone. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live from Los Angeles, where tears were shed in court today from Michael Jackson`s family. What brought on the rush of emotion? A shocking newly-released audiotape played by the prosecution where a drugged-out Michael Jackson, incoherent, slurring his words, talks about his unhappy childhood. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I love them because I didn`t have a childhood. I had no childhood. I feel their pain. I feel their hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s talking about the sadness of his own childhood, and we all know, Michael was performing on stage from the time he was about 5 years old. Here he is. Look at this youngster, incredibly talented, performing on "The Jim Nabors Hour," back in 1970.

But that wasn`t the only pain in Michael Jackson`s childhood. He said, publicly, he was physically abused, beaten by his father, Joe Jackson. Watch this from Martin Bashir`s "Living with Michael" on ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN BASHIR, FILMMAKER: What did he say? What did he actually say?

JACKSON: "God, your nose is big. You didn`t get it from me."

BASHIR: What does that do to someone who`s going through adolescence?

JACKSON: You want to die. You want to die. And on top of it, you`ve got to go on stage in the spotlight, in front of hundreds of thousands of people and just -- God. It`s just hard. I would have been happier wearing a mask.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, in an ISSUES exclusive, someone who was with Michael Jackson during his years as a child star. Don Berrigan is the former publicist for the Jackson Five. There he is, many years ago, with a very young Michael Jackson.

Don, thank you so much for being here on ISSUES tonight. I know that this has to be very emotional for you, as you listen to this person you knew as an incredibly talented child, then as a 50-year-old man, almost incoherent, slurring his words. But still, clearly, still clearly struggling with the trauma of his very difficult childhood. What were your emotions as you heard this?

DON BERRIGAN, FORMER PUBLICIST FOR THE JACKSON FIVE: Well, you know, Jane, I was following the trial for a while, but what came out today really got to me. I mean, what was amazing about it was Michael and I didn`t see much of each other after he was maybe like 14 or so, but we`d run into each other in Hollywood once in a while. And you know, he`d share things with me, when we`d go eat or something like that.

But it`s -- what struck me about it was that it -- I didn`t see it as incoherence at all. I just thought of it as something I`d heard so many times before. That`s Michael, about children. That`s him. So that`s my reaction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you`re saying you don`t think it`s incoherent. OK. We -- we were able to do a transcript of it, and in that sense, you`re right, but he is clearly slurring his words.

BERRIGAN: Oh, absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s a universal agreement that he seems to be on some kind of drug. What do you make of that?

BERRIGAN: Well, his thoughts were there. The same thoughts were there. They were just slowed down, that`s all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, OK...

BERRIGAN: ... things of Michael, but the Michael I knew, I know he has had some problems and so on. Who hasn`t? But I never believed most of it. Like, for example, I don`t believe the stuff about Joe Jackson, really. I mean, I never saw it, but that doesn`t -- I mean, I was over at the house a few times, doesn`t it mean I would see it. But I felt more that Mom was in charge, and she was kind of the matriarch, and I don`t think she would permit that to go on, really. But it was just my impression.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Don, Michael himself said it, he said it publicly, numerous times, that he was hit by his father.

BERRIGAN: I understand that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You don`t believe it?

BERRIGAN: It`s not that I don`t believe it. I just -- I just never experienced it. I want you to know I never saw it. The thing I did see...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, that`s fascinating.

BERRIGAN: Yes. And the thing that I did see was that when they -- before they even came out to Hollywood, I had a friend, an older man who was a mentor of mine at Capitol Records who was a friend of Berry Gordy`s, and I don`t know if you want to hear this story, but when Berry first asked us to come over to Motown and talk about these kids that he just signed up and what we did for them. If you`d like to hear, I can tell you a little bit about that and how I met Michael and so on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Michael, I know, was extraordinarily talented, and I know that his family is very concerned about the victim, Michael Jackson, somehow being put on trial. And so, I have to ask the question, the prosecution played these extraordinary audiotapes of Michael Jackson slurring his words. Was it a smart move by prosecutors? So let`s listen to a little more and we`re going to debate that now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Don`t have enough hope. No more hope. That`s the next generation that`s going to save our planet, starting with -- we`ll talk about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, was this a dangerous move on the part of the prosecution to play this audio? We`re going to come back to Don Berrigan in just a moment, but I want to go to Ellyn Garofalo, the attorney who represented the doctor who treated Anna Nicole Smith. We`re going to get to that case in a little more.

Do you think the prosecution, which up until now had a very clean case, yes and no answers, made a mistake by injecting something that`s highly emotional, that can be interpreted six ways to Sunday, and that also involves a psychological component?

ELLYN GAROFALO, ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S DOCTOR: I think they did. I think it was a risk -- I think it was an incredible risk, and I think it was a risk they didn`t have to take. They have two major problems. One is that Michael Jackson appears to be addicted, appears to be in terrible shape emotionally, and the jury may conclude that this guy, Conrad Murray, was just left holding the bag, that the outcome was inevitable.

The second problem they have is, in the days before his death, he`s shown dancing. He seems to be functioning, and there`s an argument that he was doing much better under Conrad Murray`s watch, from where he was on May 10 to June 23, when he had that last rehearsal.

So I think it gives the defense an opening in two ways: to argue that Conrad Murray was not reckless, that his treatment of Michael Jackson was at least an exercise of judgment in good faith, given this particular patient.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hmm. All right, well, that`s one opinion. I know that there are a lot of people who think this was a slam drunk for prosecutors. We`re going to debate it as we proceed through the hour.

But let`s get back to these audiotapes. These audiotapes tell so much about what went on behind closed doors. This is, essentially, a secret tape that`s being released because it was found on Dr. Conrad Murray`s iPhone. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I am asleep.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here`s my big issue. Dr. Conrad Murray is asking him, "Are you OK?" Well, Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of the Hills Treatment Center in Los Angeles, addiction specialist, he doesn`t seem OK to me. Why is a doctor, a trained mental professional asking him if he`s OK?

HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER/CEO, HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: That`s a very good question, Jane. Hearing these tapes, it`s so sad, and he`s so obviously overmedicated. You know, probably opiates, probably benzos, opiates, dilaudid, Demerol, could be OxyContin, Percocet. But why would Michael Jackson even need that unless he had just come out of major cancer surgery or some major issue physically? It is beyond me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, you were there in court. What was the reaction of the Jackson family?

JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, they -- they were prepped by the prosecutor before court began, because David Walgren came over, got the family in a huddle and was talking to them, and I think he was preparing them for the full four minutes and everything they were going to hear. The courtroom sat stunned as we listened to this.

And then this afternoon to hear the pharmacy that was literally in that bedroom and in those bags, and you put it all together, and it`s just a very tragic picture.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And was -- was there a tear shed by Jermaine?

CASAREZ: Those sitting close to Jermaine said that they saw near the end of that tape that he did cry, that he took out his handkerchief and had tears. And from behind where I was, I saw the family talk a little bit amongst themselves when it was going, but they were riveted, focused on that transcript on that big screen, reading it along with everybody else.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don Berrigan, former publicist to the Jackson Five, how hard does this have to be for Jermaine and the other Jackson siblings?

BERRIGAN: Well, it`s got to be tough, because when I met them, they were very, very close. Their first magazine shoot was at my house in Hollywood Hills, and I have a movie film of it. Very interesting and cute.

But the thing about Michael was that he was different from the others. He was the youngest -- not the youngest, but he was young, and he -- when I first knew him, he was 12. But even then, he was an outstanding kind of a personality. He just knew more without having been taught, than the others. And like most geniuses and people who become big stars, they don`t need teaching. They just know already, everything. And so that`s what Michael was like.

And I can imagine this. And this is just an extrapolation from my -- what I knew of him, is that I think this doctor is being railroaded. He may have made some misjudgments, but you can`t deal with a guy like Michael, who`s the biggest star, when he becomes so powerful. These -- in general, these kind of folks will not listen to advice. They`re going to do it their way, and it will kill them if you`re not careful, you know?

So I can imagine -- and I was the representative for the Monkees for a long time, and I went through some things with them. And I saw that kind of, you know, masterful kind of behavior. And I think this doctor probably did all he could, and if it wasn`t for Michael`s feelings about himself and about his specialness, which he was, very special, probably the biggest star in the world, King of Pop.

But if he wanted certain medications, I don`t think there`s any doctor on earth who could keep them from him. Because, one, he had the money to get them, and two, he felt he knew better than the doctors. And you see this in Hollywood all the time. You know, you`re out there. Some of these guys and gals, they`ll be just winning like crazy, and then the drugs get to them and then they`re in trouble. And it takes a long time to knock them off and off their success.

And I think that something like that happened in this story. And I think it`s wrong to victimize this doctor, because I can just see from all that stuff that they found today. They showed all those different bottles of stuff, that doctor didn`t give him that. He bought that. He`s got some shills out there probably who bought them. And the doctor, all he could do was advise him, and if Michael didn`t want to take that advice, there was nothing he could have done for him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you have made a very interesting argument, and if you could stay there, Don, it`s just amazing to hear from you. We`re going to continue this discussion, very controversial discussion. More on the Michael Jackson death trial.

A phone call to Dr. Conrad Murray played in court. Does it show a wounded Michael Jackson who hadn`t gotten over a painful childhood? And it`s not really a phone call. Conrad Murray is right there, answering his questions. This was an audio recording that was taken of Michael Jackson by Dr. Conrad Murray. We`re taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1- 877-586-7297.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: When people leave my show, I want them to say, "I`ve never seen anything like this in my life. Go. Go."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD K. STERN, ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE SMITH: Is this a mushroom trip?

ANNA NICOLE SMITH, MODEL/ACTRESS: Huh?

STERN: Is this a mushroom trip?

SMITH: Hmm?

STERN: Is this a mushroom trip?

SMITH: What do you mean?

STERN: I`m kidding.

SMITH: What does that mean?

STERN: I`m kidding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith, the parallels in these two famous drug overdose deaths are endless, and we`re back now with Ellyn Garofalo, the attorney for Anna Nicole Smith`s doctor, Dr. Sandeep Kapoor.

You represent Dr. Sandeep Kapoor. He was Anna Nicole Smith`s personal doctor. Dr. Kapoor was charged with supplying prescription drugs to Anna Nicole Smith, who, of course, was the famous "Playboy" centerfold, model, TV personality and died of a drug overdose in 2007.

Ultimately, the doctor that you represent was found not guilty. Ellyn, you won a very similar case in the very same courthouse, just down the hall from where this trial is going on. So tell us about the parallels in these two cases.

GAROFALO: The parallels really are, you have two celebrities who have a history of erratic, bizarre behavior, have a history of drug use, using a whole host of medications, from various doctors over a long period of time. Both of whom died of overdoses, perhaps accidental, perhaps not, of unusual drugs.

In Anna Nicole Smith`s case, it was an old drug called chloral hydrate, the same drug that called Marilyn Monroe, but isn`t generally used anymore for sleep. And in fact, both Michael Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith were being treated at the time of their deaths with drugs to assist them in sleep. Both had insomnia problems; both had sleep problems. On that level, there were a lot of parallels between the two.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, your doctor was acquitted. Do you think that the prosecution is going to lose this case?

GAROFALO: Hard to say. I think the prosecution is doing a very good job, at least up until today in this case, building a case block by block. They`re doing it systemically. They`re focused, which I think is something that was lacking in our case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s a problem, though, with playing this tape. OK. A lot of this stuff was yes or no answers that really work very well for the prosecution. He did not tell the emergency medical technicians that he gave him Propofol. He did not tell the E.R. doctors he gave him Propofol. He didn`t do certain things, extreme deviations.

But this audiotape, Howard Samuels, it is open to tremendous interpretation. It`s emotional. A lot of the jurors have a history with a relative who is an alcoholic. And so, how do we know how the jury`s going to react?

SAMUELS: Well, I think that`s a very good question. I mean, I know that for myself and people that I know, when we heard that tape, there was no question he was high on drugs and severely overmedicated. I mean, I can`t see how you can`t come to that conclusion, especially because there was no reason for it. I mean, that`s what makes this very bizarre. And really, as far as Dr. Murray is concerned, that`s where the responsibility goes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So mixed opinion. Will it help or hurt the prosecution? This extraordinary audiotape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This being a prescription made out to Mick Jackson, Clonazepam, 1 mg tablet. Prescriber being a Dr. Alan Metzger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. There you have the prosecution showing prescriptions that were found at Jackson`s home, and they`re not all Dr. Conrad Murray. They`re mentioning some other doctors` names.

And then five days before Michael Jackson died, his manager, Frank Deleo left a very worried voice mail on Dr. Conrad Murray`s iPhone. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK DELEO, JACKSON`S MANAGER: Dr. Murray, it`s Frank Deleo, Michael`s manager. Please call me. I`m sure you`re aware that he had an episode last night. He`s sick. Today`s Saturday. Tomorrow I`m on my way back. I`m not going to continue my trip. I think you need to get a blood test on him. We`ve got to see what he`s doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Addiction specialist -- addiction specialist Howard Samuels. "We need to get a drug test on -- we need to get a blood test on him. We need to see what he`s doing." What is he really saying there?

SAMUELS: Well, he`s saying that he thinks that Michael`s getting high behind everyone`s back, and we need to find out the truth. Because the manager obviously is so concerned about a healthy Michael being on stage to be able to do shows, and obviously, he`s getting really scared that that`s not the case.

So he`s asking Conrad Murray, you know, to really help him, you know. What`s he taking? Now, to me, for Michael to be that out of it on that tape that we heard, it has to help the prosecution. How could it not? I mean, you know, nobody should be that medicated, unless you are -- you know, nothing warrants it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Quickly, response?

GAROFALO: The response is, this isn`t a prescribing case. The Anna Nicole Smith case was about over-prescribing. Was she an addict and were too many drugs, the wrong drugs being prescribed?

This is a manslaughter case. And assuming he was an addict, and assuming lots of other stuff was being prescribed, it doesn`t mean that Conrad Murray is guilty of this crime. This helps the defense. It doesn`t help the prosecution, although, in the end, it may not hurt the prosecution.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go back to Don Berrigan, former publicist to the Jackson Five. When you listen to this tape, what was your sense? Did you get a sense that the jurors would take away that -- that Dr. Conrad Murray was the one sort of left holding the bag, as one attorney described it, and it`s really not his fault, or that Dr. Conrad Murray absolutely failed in his responsibilities as a doctor, Don?

BERRIGAN: I don`t think you can say that he absolutely failed. I think there`s one thing wrong with all of this coverage, and that is it`s trivializing the situation. It`s not like, for example, it`s silly to compare Michael with Anna Nicole, because Anna Nicole wasn`t the genius to be the No. 1 star of the planet. And I think we have to understand the pain that a genius goes through, and reaching out to drugs, while it`s unwise, is one of the ways they try to handle that pain. To blame that on a doctor is ridiculous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you think that Michael was self-medicating to ease the pain of his traumatic childhood?

BERRIGAN: If he wasn`t -- I don`t think it was for that reason. I think it was because, just as this genius grew, usually, like for example, in Orson Welles, the pain grows with the genius. So that`s what I think he was dealing with, and unfortunately, he resorted to drugs. And unfortunately, the doctor got in on the tail end of it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don, thank you for such incredible insight. If you want to hang in, you`re welcome to stay on the show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A heartbreaking day in court as we heard the words of Michael Jackson.

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: God wants me to do it. That`s why I`m doing it. I`m going to do it.

SADE ANDING, CONRAD MURRAY`S GIRLFRIEND: I heard mumbling of voices and I heard coughing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the charge, offense of involuntary manslaughter, a felony, Dr. Murray, how do you plead?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that he`s a cad and sees lots of women or cheats on them doesn`t make him not a good doctor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was an air about him I didn`t like.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Arrogance?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I say sleazy. I just think --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sleazy.

JACKSON: This is it. This is really it. This is the final -- this is the final curtain call.

I hurt, you know? I hurt.

What about all the dreams that you said was yours and mine?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the saddest days so far in the Michael Jackson death trial. Listening to Michael Jackson mourn his lost, unhappy childhood.

Hello, everyone, Jane Velez-Mitchell embedded in the Los Angeles area for the Michael Jackson death trial. And wow, what happened today left everyone in that courtroom really shaken up. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I love them because I didn`t have a childhood. I had no childhood. I feel their pain. I feel their hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did Michael mean by not having a childhood? He was talking about having grown up in front of the cameras, growing up on stage. Watch his phenomenal talent when he was just 12 years old on the "Jim Neighbors Hour".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MICHAEL JACKSON PERFORMING ON THE "JIM NEIGHBORS HOUR")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Such an incredible talent. What a genius, what an old soul. But the big question: did this audiotape help the prosecution, which played it, or did it backfire and help the defense?

Straight out to Brian Oxman, attorney for Joe Jackson. What do you think? Did it backfire?

BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE JACKSON: Double-edged sword, Jane. It is very unclear as to whether it`s helping the prosecution at all. What we see there is Conrad Murray looks very concerned about Michael Jackson. He is talking to him as he is intoxicated. And it looks to me that it helps the defense more than it helps the prosecution.

But I can tell you this, Jane, it is so upsetting to this family. It`s upsetting to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I`m sure. It`s upsetting to everyone who listened to it.

And I have to bring in Jim Moret, chief correspondent "Inside Edition". You`re going to explain to us now exactly how this recording was made.

JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Yes, I mean, basically, it`s an iPhone app. It`s an audio recorder. So you just literally --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Let`s hold that up and show it -- right there.

MORET: You just push the app. This is what bothered me. And I listen to Brian Oxman, I agree. We don`t really know what the jury`s thinking, but what you do know, based upon the defense is, the defense says that Conrad Murray knew or believed that Michael Jackson was an addict. And if that`s true, then why would he leave him alone at any time with vials of medication? And why, why would you make a voice recording, especially one like that, that`s so disturbing, showing Michael Jackson incoherent.

I really don`t understand, no one has explained why. It hasn`t really been addressed yet, perhaps the defense will come to it. Why would he make that recording?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ve got a caller, Crystal in California, has a theory on that. What`s your theory, Crystal?

CRYSTAL, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Hi, Jane, how are you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. Fine thanks.

CRYSTAL: My theory is -- I`m thinking this -- what in the world is the doctor sitting there recording this guy in this condition, in this state of mind. What was he thinking? I think he knew he was dealing with an addict, or he knew he was dealing with someone that needed help.

I think he purposefully recorded this guy in this state of mind to prove that he was dealing with someone that was in a bad condition. I think he intended it to help him, and he knew something was going to go wrong. I think he knew that Michael Jackson was going to break down and something was going to happen to him, and I think, I believe that Dr. Murray used this tactic, you know, as --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you make a very good point, caller. Jim Moret?

MORET: She`s basically coming down to one word, insurance. So if Michael Jackson is on tour -- let`s face it. We know based upon the testimony that Conrad Murray was thinking one step ahead. He wanted to gather all of the evidence before 911 was called. What would a tape recording do? It would be insurance, if for example Michael Jackson`s on stage, something happens, the doctor says, "I knew there was a problem. I was treating him for it. Here`s the proof."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Karas, correspondent TruTV, you`ve been all over this trial from the very beginning. Here`s where I have a problem with the prosecution playing this. They have a very strong case up until this point. And it`s very clear cut.

Either he did tell the paramedics that he gave him Propofol or he didn`t, and he didn`t. He didn`t tell the ER doctors. He lied to the ER doctors. He deceived them. These are clear-cut, extreme deviations from standard medical care, and it was boom, boom, boom, one after the other. And the prosecution had said, even one of these is enough to convict.

Now, you throw in to this mix a hand grenade, a very emotional tape that has everybody interpreting it differently, that`s long enough that you have various people latching on to different aspects of it. How -- the prosecution had to know that this was a wild card, did it not?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV: Well, I mean, I don`t know. I don`t know what the prosecution was thinking. And we can talk until we`re blue in the face about what this means. But if Conrad Murray gets on the stand, he`ll explain what it means and what his motive was.

Now, the prosecution has already shown the jury that Conrad Murray is capable of having a very real doctor/patient relationship with his patients. That he`d spend 30 to 45 minutes with patients; he had a steel- trap mind recalling the care and the medication that his patients in Houston were taking or Las Vegas.

But when it came to Michael Jackson, says the state, it was more of an employer/employee relationship. He let his patient make decisions. He demanded $5 million from his patient, like many people would take advantage of Michael Jackson, obviously, he got much less than that, or he was supposed to get $1.8 million.

But what did he do with his patient who may have had a drug problem? He had already bought 100 bottles of Propofol, between April 6 and April 28 and the two days after this recording, he buys several more bottles of Propofol, stockpiling that and other medicine to take to London for the tour.

So he wasn`t being the caring doctor will argue the state. He was bending the rules. And who knows? You could even argue that he had an even more sinister motive for keeping it on his telephone. What if Michael Jackson fired him and he says, I got this recording of you and I`m going to release this recording if you fire me. Who knows what his motive was for keeping it?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ll listen to more of this extraordinary audiotape from court, where Michael talks in a slurred voice about his vision for a children`s hospital. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Children are depressed. The -- in those hospitals, no game room, no movie theater. They`re sick because they`re depressed. Their mind is depressing them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s so sad. I mean, it really breaks my heart to hear this.

Don Berrigan, former publicist for the Jackson Five, we`re with you exclusively tonight. It sounds to me like Michael Jackson is depressed. And he is projecting his own depression perhaps on children that he meets. Not to say that there aren`t many children in need. You worked with him when he was a child, did he have a truly unhappy childhood? There is a sense that he never got a chance to be a kid. You were there.

DON BERRIGAN, FORMER PUBLICIST FOR THE JACKSON FIVE: I never saw an unhappy kid, never. I saw a kid who was talented. I saw a kid who wanted to go play instead of dance or sing. But I never saw an unhappy kid. He got along great with his brothers, he held back a little from the others.

Normally, in Hollywood, when an act gets going and they want to put themselves forward to the press, they would. The other boys did that, but Michael never did that. He would just stay back, and then when it came to go on stage and do something, he`d knock your socks off.

But I just never saw -- I didn`t see him all the time, but I saw him for a few months, all pretty regularly. A never saw an unhappy person, a depressed person, anything like that. As a matter of fact, as he developed over the years, I became more and more astounded as he changed his face around, as he, you know, heard the rumors of drugs and so on. You know, if we think that this last drug episode was the only one, I would be shocked.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Brian Oxman, you`re the attorney for Joe Jackson. I think the unspoken subtext of these tapes, obviously, trumps. So isn`t that something that cuts both ways, given that Michael Jackson had a history of substance abuse, which he discussed publicly in 1993, Brian?

OXMAN: It seems to me, Jane, that when a person is under the influence like this, that they`re kind of, their real personality, their real thoughts come out; who and what they are, is magnified. And what we hear is a Michael Jackson who is very concerned about children, not someone who wants to exploit them. We hear someone who says, I`m in pain; a lot of people say, oh, that`s pain from his childhood, his father. Nonsense.

Michael Jackson had broken vertebrae in his back that hurt him like the devil when he danced. And he had a broken femur and a broken ankle that had residual pain. He was truly in pain. And this is the real Michael Jackson. It`s the Michael I knew who was concerned about kids, concerned about his career, and wanted to be the best he could be.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I think what you`re seeing is what I`m talking about. Everybody has a completely different interpretation of Michael Jackson`s words. Now you hear Brian Oxman saying, oh, he`s referring to physical pain. I thought he was referring to depression. Somebody else says something else.

The prosecution did take a risk by playing this tape. More in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to the voice of Michael Jackson.

DR. CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: Your honor, I am an innocent man. I, therefore, plead not guilty.

JACKSON: When people leave my show, I want them to say, I`ve never seen nothing like this in my life. Go. Go.

NICOLE ALVAREZ, CONRAD MURRAY`S GIRLFRIEND: It`s Michael Jackson.

DEBORAH BRAZIL, PROSECUTOR: Must have been pretty exciting?

ALVAREZ: Definitely.

JACKSON: He`s the greatest entertainer in the world.

I hurt, you know? I hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael. Justice for Michael.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: An emotional audio recording played in court today; Michael Jackson slurring his words, speaking with Dr. Conrad Murray audio- taping him. So why was Dr. Murray audio-taping him? We`ve heard, possibly for insurance, to blackmail him, somebody suggested. We don`t know. We have no idea. But it`s certainly a bizarre thing for a doctor to do.

At the time of his death, Michael Jackson was on a lot of prescription medications, as indicated by the coroner`s investigator who took the stand today. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were these four prescription pills -- containers found in that wicker basket on the wooden nightstand that you`ve described?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, here`s something that we have to tell you. Michael Jackson had a lot of prescriptions under different names. In fact, published reports have gathered those names together and suggested he had something like 19 aliases for the prescriptions that he got.

You can take -- his favorite was Omar Arnold, but he also used very sort of quirky ones, Josephine Baker, of course, the famous singer from the 1930s. Jack London, the famous novelist.

I want to go to Howard Samuels, addiction specialist. You heard Brian Oxman say, well, Michael Jackson had severe back pain. Now, the family has said, we should not be looking at this audiotape and blaming the victim or assuming even that he is an addict. We should not go back to 1993 when Michael Jackson admitted that he had a substance abuse problem and was going into treatment. We should consider the possibility that he was in pain and he was just getting sedated for good reason. Your thoughts?

HOWARD SAMUELS, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: That`s cold denial, Jane. I mean so obviously; once an addict, always an addict. I`ve been sober 27 years, and the way that I heard Michael Jackson was the way that I was 27 years ago when I was using opiates, ok?

Now, this is obviously a case of all the behaviors of the 19 aliases, those are the behaviors of a prescription addict junkie that goes to different doctors, gets different medications, because I have a lot of clients that have these exact behaviors that are in my clinic today.

And that is why him not being an addict, people like saying that he`s not is a joke. I mean, he has all the behaviors, all the signs of addiction. So I wish people would just sort of, like, let`s, you know, let`s feel sorry that he was diseased, just like someone having cancer, and he was very sick and he was taken advantage of by Conrad Murray. I mean it`s so obvious.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not either/or. It`s not, either he was an addict or Dr. Conrad Murray is wrong. They could both be wrong. In other words, he could be an addict, which is not being right or wrong, that just is.

SAMUELS: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Dr. Conrad Murray call also be criminally negligent, Jim Moret.

MORET: Well, if you`re telling me that you have a doctor who knows or should know that someone`s an addict and they`re continuing to provide medication, and in the defense`s own opening statement, they`re suggesting that Conrad Murray was trying to wean Michael Jackson from these drugs. But as you point out time and time again, what did he have, four gallons of Propofol?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

MORET: Enough to kill an elephant, enough for a wing of a clinic. You know, there was testimony that we heard from the pharmacist that they thought they were sending these medications to a clinic, not to one patient, not to an apartment. And also, don`t forget that the coroner`s investigator, talking about the -- talking about what was inside that bag, if you go back a few days, you heard testimony from one of the bodyguards who said, what did Conrad Murray ask when he was at the hospital? Could you take me back to Michael Jackson`s house? Could you take me back to the house? What would have happened if he went back? Odds are that bag would have been gone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So he couldn`t get into the house to remove the evidence, which is why prosecutors are able to hold up that saline bag with the Propofol in it, right there. Otherwise, you`re suggestion is -- and Brian Oxman, very quickly, your thoughts on that?

OXMAN: We are very concerned about that saline bag. It doesn`t seem to have any fingerprints on it and there`s no fingerprints of Michael Jackson, there`s no fingerprints of any of the security guards. It`s very bizarre, Jane. The suggestion of self-administration is absolutely --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. More on the other side. Hang in there, Brian.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: "Heal the World", "We are the World", "Will You Be There", "The Lost Children".

There are the songs I`ve written because I hurt, you know. I hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, it`s just really upsetting and we`re analyzing and trying to figure out whether these audiotapes were necessary for the prosecution to play, or whether they threw a wildcard into the prosecution`s case, which had been very straightforward, very cut and dried up until this point hitting home run after home run establishing that Dr. Conrad Murray had extreme deviations from standard medical care by lying, by not calling 911 right away, by doing CPR with one hand on a bed. The list goes on and on.

So we`re trying to figure out why the prosecution felt the need to put this emotional audiotape into the mix. And Brian Oxman, what occurs to me, what they say with art, it`s never completed. It`s always abandoned. Or if you have a dish, you can ruin it by putting too much in it.

We just saw that the Anna Nicole Smith case, we just had the doctor on who successfully defended -- Dr. Sandeep Kapoor. It`s the same courthouse.

I mean the prosecution really has to win this one. This is an important case for the L.A. County district attorney`s office. Why did they take this risk of playing this tape? Could they just not resist the drama of it?

OXMAN: I thought about this, Jane, and I think this prosecution wants to be very candid, very full in its explanation and not leave anything to make them look like they`re trying to hide it. I think the defense would have played this unquestionably, so the prosecution played it first.

Now, is this the way Conrad Murray found him? That`s what the defense team is telling us, that`s not Conrad Murray`s work. That remains to be seen, and at this point, Jane, I question that. This looks to me closer to Conrad Murray`s work.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me play exactly what the defense team told me when I asked them before the gag order was put into place last week. I ran into one of Conrad Murray`s lawyers, and this is what he told me when I asked him about this tape. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Were you shocked by the audiotape that the prosecution played? Were you shocked at all by that tape?

J. MICHAEL FLANAGAN, CONRAD MURRAY`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. That`s what happened when Murray`s not there to treat him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what`s your analysis of that Jim Moret? He`s saying that`s what happens when Dr. Murray is not there to treat him, as if Dr. Murray found him this way -- the implication is Dr. Murray found him this way; he decided to audiotape him again, for his own protection.

MORET: You know, I don`t know why he recorded him, but I`ll tell you what it does. I`m a lawyer but I`m also a dad, I`m a brother. If I`m Michael Jackson`s brother or I`m a fan, this brings Michael Jackson into that courtroom. You get a sense of the trauma that he`s experiencing, the pain that he`s going through, and it brings the victim into that courtroom for those jurors to think about. That`s what I think.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we also have to take into consideration that quite a few of the jurors have experience with addiction.

MORET: And they`re also fans, though.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They have relatives who have died of alcoholism or who are recovering alcoholics. Now, does that -- very briefly -- does that figure into the mix?

SAMUELS: Well, I can`t see how it can`t. I mean everybody has such a personal experience, and it`s horrific when it deals with addiction and alcoholism. To hear that is going to cause a lot of feelings for the jurors.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ll be back in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Twenty seconds each, what the jury will take away from this starting with Jim Moret.

MORET: I think the jury is looking at what they believe is an addict and they`re asking one question. If you have an addict who is so popular, so talented, how could you let a doctor agree to give him more drugs when that`s what he`s asking for?

SAMUELS: I have to agree with the same thing. I mean here you have an addict. The jury sees that he`s an addict and the jury sees a doctor not doing anything but recording the addiction -- bizarre.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian Oxman, ten seconds. What will the jury take away?

OXMAN: Heart-breaking, Jane. It`s just heart-breaking. Humanized Michael Jackson; the loss here is so enormous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I would have preferred to remember Michael Jackson on stage dancing so beautifully. And I would prefer to remember his genius and not think about this, although this is real. This is a secret revealed at trial.

"NANCY GRACE" is next.

END