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President Obama's Jobs Bill; Tax Increase; Interview with Mayor Julian Castro; Michael Jackson Trial; Interview with Marc Andreessen

Aired October 6, 2011 - 19:00   ET


ERIN BURNETT, HOST: I knew you were going to say that. I promise she'll be on tonight, John, just for you. All right, thanks to John King and we do have Christie Turlington, the supermodel and actress coming up later on this hour.

Also on the "Frontline" at the trial of Michael Jackson's doctor, Conrad Murray, then Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin is shirtless, "Seriously?!" and the "Bottom Line" on the millionaire tax and why President Obama is behind it.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, Americans looking for jobs. Ahead of the employment number tomorrow, protests, paralysis in Washington. The president takes a stand in favor of a tax on people who earn over $1 million. It's a 5.6 percent surcharge. It would bring in enough to pay for his nearly $450 billion jobs plan. House Speaker John Boehner doesn't like it.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: Nothing has disappointed me more than what's happened over the last five weeks. To watch the president of the United States give up on governing, give up on leading and spend full time campaigning.


BURNETT: But the president dares the Republicans to say no.


BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Congress does something, then I can't run against a do nothing Congress. If Congress does nothing, then it's not a matter of me running against them, I think the American people will run them out of town.


BURNETT: Democratic political strategist Jamal Simmons is in our Washington Bureau along with Republican strategist Karen Hanretty and CNN contributor John Avlon here with me, as he often is. All right, thanks to all three, but Jamal, I want to start with you. Do you think the president has it right, he has found a way to get the jobs bill with a tax increase, too?

JAMAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think he does have it right. What he's doing is lining up for the Republicans, either you are for the middle class or you're against the middle class. Either you're defending millionaires or you're on the side of the working people. And I think that's going to be something for Republicans to have to wrestle with. I'm not sure I want to be on the side of defending Wall Street and millionaires in this kind of electoral environment.

BURNETT: Karen, let me ask you something. It was interesting, a CNN reporter ran into Susan Collins, a moderate Republican in the halls of Congress today and she said she didn't like this either, which was interesting because she's moderate. I mean will the Republicans make this fail or is Jamal right? To make it fail will be tantamount to not getting re-elected?

KAREN HANRETTY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Oh the president knows that this jobs bill is going nowhere even with this new tax. There are a number of Democrats who still would refuse and I assume will be on the record within the next 24 hours, still refusing to vote for a bill simply because they think it spends too much money regardless of a tax increase. Don't forget there are a lot of Democrats who are up for election in very moderate to conservative states, who don't want anything to do with the president and don't want to be associated with supporting a spending bill that the president's name is on.

BURNETT: All right, John, can you break the tie here?

JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I will break that tie and I'm on Jamal's side in this case. Here's why. First of all I think Democrats realize that if you tax folks who make over $1 million a year, that's a very different political proposition than saying that families who make $250,000 a year are in the bunch of the super rich.


AVLON: Seventy-five percent of all voters support taxing millionaires more. So I think Republicans actually -- they're going to throw what Karen just said -- they're going to be throwing the class warfare rhetoric around. But the reality of the policy is very different politically and they might box themselves in a corner.


HANRETTY: The bill is not going to pass, I can assure you of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Washington insider.


HANRETTY: Well it won't. You know I'm quite confident of that that it won't pass. It won't -- I'll be surprised if it even comes up for a vote, quite frankly.


HANRETTY: But it's much better -- it's better politics on the part of the Democrats. And if President Obama had gone out there to start with, with a tax truly on millionaires and not the $250,000 range, which Chuck Schumer from you know balked at, he would have been better to start with and he wouldn't have had to engage in this constant --


BURNETT: I want to move on to Herman Cain, but Jamal, I do want to ask you a quick question, if I may. If this does not pass, is that it for the president with the jobs bill? I mean is it going to campaign mode or does he keep trying?

SIMMONS: No, absolutely I don't think it's it. And if it isn't then that would be a problem for the president. He has got to -- he's got to keep pushing this jobs bill and then if they don't -- if they vote it down, he's got to break it up into pieces and come back every week. Keep pushing it and what we haven't heard from Karen and what we haven't heard from the speaker or from Mitch McConnell is what the Republican jobs plan is.


SIMMONS: They have now been in office for 10 months --


SIMMONS: And we haven't heard a jobs plan from them.

BURNETT: OK, hold on --

HANRETTY: You have heard about it.

SIMMONS: So is your jobs plan to get rid of the EPA and get rid of Dodd-Frank? That's not really a jobs plan as much as it a payoff to Republican donors.

BURNETT: I nearly hit pause on this because I do want to talk a whole lot about more of the jobs plan another time, but I want to ask all of you all about Herman Cain, especially since we're talking about the middle class and Herman Cain is surging in the polls despite saying some things that in the current political climate you would think don't make sense. He said something yesterday. I was surprised, but then he basically said the same thing today. Listen to it.


HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you are envious of somebody that happens to be rich that you call a "fat cat," go and get rich instead of expecting them to walk outside of their office and write you a check. That's not the way America works. Work for it!

(END VIDEO CLIP) AVLON: You know I think it actually will play well in the Republican primary and there's a reason for this. Look, he'll come across as insensitive. He'll come across as not empathizing with people who are having a tough time in this economy. But there is a deep resistance in this country to the idea of welfare. We passed welfare reform 15 years ago. Candidates still run against it because there's something that's so American about the idea about work for yourself. Don't be depending on someone else. That's the (INAUDIBLE) he's playing and it'll play well in the primary.

BURNETT: Jamal, what do you think? Are you surprised that he's saying those things repeatedly, passionately and consistently and rising in the polls?

SIMMONS: I hate to disagree with a fellow Morehouse alum, Herman Cain, like me, but I think that he's absolutely in the wrong place here. Here's the problem. With 14 million unemployed and probably have six or seven million people under employed, people -- this unemployment crisis is very personal to a lot of people in the country. Americans would love to go out and get a job and get rich. They'd love to start a business but they can't get a job. Those jobs don't exist and they can't start a business because they can't get the financing. He has got to come up with a plan for helping to solve that and I think people would absolutely agree with him. Let's go out and all get rich.

BURNETT: Karen, do you think that Herman Cain really could get the nomination here or is it still Mitt Romney's?

HANRETTY: I don't think it's Mitt Romney's. I'm not sure who said it's Mitt Romney's nomination. It's -- you know look, it's going to be a great race and you know I think it was Michelle Obama, in her speech, who said America, we're a people who pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. And Herman Cain is right. We are a country that does that and that's why we are such a great country, why we have people like Steve Jobs who create and invent and they're not handed their inventions. They're not handed their ideas and they're not handed their wealth. We earn it in America. And I think that message resonates with a lot more people even outside the GOP primary.

SIMMONS: Karen, when you've got -- Karen, when you've got computer programmers waiting tables and people who have advanced degrees driving taxis, I don't think this is that kind of economy. People are having trouble. They can't even get back in the door for a job to be able to make their own way.


AVLON: Beyond the Republican talking points, let's not forget that DARPA helped fund -- create the Internet. It's a complex Web here, but Herman Cain is going to rip off something that's deeply in grained in the American character. It'll serve him well in the primaries as a result.


HANRETTY: And Herman Cain --



BURNETT: Thank you all --

HANRETTY: And he made his own money, a self-made man.

BURNETT: We appreciate all three of you taking the time.

SIMMONS: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Well now as we try to talk about, who are the leaders that really will bring this country forward as everyone is looking for leadership, we wanted to talk to one. Julian Castro is the mayor of San Antonio, a rising star in the Democratic Party, one of the youngest mayors in the country. I had the honor of meeting you, Mayor Castro, down in San Antonio not long ago and really appreciate your taking the time to come on with us tonight.


BURNETT: Obviously we all know there's not a lot being done in Washington right now, obviously this big debate going on about the jobs bill, but the campaign season seems to be the key issue for many there. But just a few days ago, he referred to himself as the underdog. Do you think he's still the underdog?

CASTRO: It really does seem like President Obama is the underdog right now. Now, the conventional wisdom of course is that an incumbent president has a lot of advantages. And I'm sure that's true. But I'm sure that he recognizes as well that with the economy the way that it is, that it's going to be tough sledding ahead.


CASTRO: Fortunately, I think that he is working very hard and he has a lot of time between now and next November, so I do believe that he's the underdog, but I also believe that he's working hard at doing what America needs done and that he has time to make up the ground.

BURNETT: Mayor Castro, you're a Democrat in a red state, so you work with Republicans. You got to do it whether you want to do it and you do, do it.


BURNETT: And I'm wondering if you were in Washington right now, what is the one thing that you would change to end the paralysis and the toxicity?

CASTRO: Well you know, the one thing I would do, you can't do. One of the things that mayors have an advantage on is that they work in a mostly nonpartisan environment. We don't run as Democrats or Republicans. Of course, I am a Democrat, but you don't have to distinguish yourself as that on the ballot or on the dais and that really lends to a lot of working across what would usually be party lines. But that's not going to happen in D.C. What you can do though is that we can return to the civility that existed just you know 10, 15 years ago, a generation ago in Washington.

I believe that this Republican Congress has been the most partisan, the most obstructive that we've seen in the United States in a long time. And it's hard to get anything done when folks are talking past each other. And so if we could change one thing, obviously, it would be that.

BURNETT: And one final thing I wanted to ask you about, your governor, Rick Perry. Obviously, he's getting a lot of attention around the country right now and he's being painted by his Republican rivals as much too pro-immigration, against defense, supports guest workers for the DREAM Act, paying for illegal immigrants getting in- state tuition rates. But this summer, you came out it seemed against Governor Perry on immigration. Here you are.


CASTRO: We have seen in this legislative session, easily the most anti-Latino agenda in more than a generation.


BURNETT: So you obviously disagree.

CASTRO: I do. You know that -- those words were carefully chosen. Governor Perry sat over a legislative session that included what he called "the sanctuary cities legislation" that ultimately didn't pass. There was legislation introduced that was English only legislation, what was called Voter ID, even though there's been absolutely no evidence of voter fraud and a redistricting scheme in the state of Texas that even though minorities represented 90 percent of the growth during this last decade, there was only one minority opportunity district that was created out of four new congressional seats for Texas. So absolutely, Governor Perry has I think a track record that leaves a lot to be desired when you talk about the interest of the Hispanic community. There's no question in my mind about that.

BURNETT: All right. Well thank you so much, Mayor Castro. Appreciate it. Look forward to seeing you soon.

CASTRO: Thank you.

BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, today at the Michael Jackson trial the defense accuses the prosecution of sloppy investigating. It was a big development.

And Amanda Knox, back in America, her father talks to us OUTFRONT about how she's adjusting to her freedom.

And tonight I'll take you inside a women's jail in Pakistan, our guest, supermodel Christie Turlington will be with us as well. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: "The Number" tonight, one. That was Steve Jobs salary at Apple, $1 a year. In 2005, Jobs gave an address to Stanford graduates. You may have seen the clip because it has been viewed on YouTube over 1.5 million times in the past 24 hours. Well in the speech Steve Jobs spoke about how he dropped out of Reed College back in 1972 because he felt it was costing his family too much.

Well in 1972, it cost $4,020 a year to attend Reed. Today, it's one of the more expensive colleges in the country still. It cost $53,850. He stayed in the West Port dorm. We called Reed College and they actually sent us a picture here at OUTFRONT of Steve with Reed Professor Richard Crandall (ph), who is an Apple distinguished scientist.

Now over the past 24 hours, we've all heard about how Steve Jobs developed the Mac, the iPad, the iPhone, the iPad. It's hard to believe it all came from the mind of one man, but it did -- so wow what a one!

Well it's day eight in the Conrad Murray trial and the defense went on the attack charging an investigator with sloppiness.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) would you agree with me that you made a substantial number of mistakes in your investigation of this case?



BURNETT: Ted Rowlands was in the courtroom and has the latest. And it was -- is a pretty big day for the defense today, Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Erin. They were able to poke holes in those early days when they were collecting evidence in this case. Now two years later things that are important at the time didn't seem important so they didn't document them. Bottom line, the defense used it to their advantage and they'll use it at the -- at a later day when they're trying to create reasonable doubt, so it was a good day for them.

BURNETT: All right, so when you're talking about how the jury is reacting, I'm curious because this is sort of -- well I mean I guess it plays from not being in the courtroom, sort of CSI style.

ROWLANDS: Yes and the problem is it's not as exciting as CSI, so we're in the monotonous phase of the case, but this jury has been focused. First time we've seen some yawns -- that was yesterday -- but by and large they're sitting through it. It's tough stuff because there's a lot of science and they are following along, which is going to work to the defense advantage because they're going to try to prove this on science. BURNETT: All right, so what's on tap tomorrow? Hopefully no more yawns?

ROWLANDS: Yes. Tomorrow we're expected to finish up with the toxicology part of the case and then we may hear a two-hour audiotape of Murray talking to investigators just two days after Jackson died. This will be the only opportunity for Murray to address the jury assuming he doesn't take the stand and tell his side of the story. That should be extremely compelling, no yawns tomorrow.

BURNETT: All right, Ted Rowlands and we'll talk to you tomorrow. Thanks again as always.

And now let's talk about what this cross-examination meant because as Ted said, pretty significant. Sunny Hostin is a legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, and she joins me now here in New York -- Sunny, great to see you.


BURNETT: So a big day.

SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL ANALYST: Huge day for the defense and let's face it. They really needed it because yesterday there was this dramatic show and tell in the courtroom where the prosecutor was sort of putting out in front of the jury all of the evidence that was recovered from Michael Jackson's bedroom. And we're talking about a mini drugstore, Erin, I mean vial upon vial upon vial of drugs. And so I thought how do they rebut that? Well they used a sloppy evidence collection defense. And we've seen that work, right? It's worked in the Amanda Knox case. It was the downfall of the O.J. Simpson case.

BURNETT: Right, right, right -- yes --

HOSTIN: And that's what they did and they did it very, very effectively in my view. When I was watching it I saw seven mistakes that she made and she declined to admit to that. I really think I saw shades of O.J. Simpson and it was extremely, extremely effective.

BURNETT: OK, so, so is it -- first of all, seven -- I mean you've done this a lot, so is seven a lot? Is this highly sloppy and the whole issue of destroying her notes --


BURNETT: -- is that the norm or there something that you could read into that?

HOSTIN: Well when I was -- when I was a prosecutor I always told my investigators, don't you dare throw anything away because people want the underlying notes.


HOSTIN: They don't want that smell of a cover up. They don't want that and obviously they didn't do that in this case and she did destroy her notes. I thought that was very damaging. She made a lot of mistakes in terms of the evidence collection. Her own fingerprint was found on one of the syringes. In addition it was all about Propofol. I mean she was mistaken in terms of some of the pictures of the Propofol and I want to say this because I really feel like the tide changed in the courtroom. And you don't want that as a prosecutor.


HOSTIN: It should be in your favor in your case in chief. We heard about a tweet today, if the bag is not milky, my client is not guilty. And so it really has shades of that, if the gloves don't fit --

BURNETT: O.J. Simpson --

HOSTIN: -- you must acquit. People are really tweeting and Facebooking and they feel that the tide has changed in that courtroom.

BURNETT: So how much longer until this is done --


BURNETT: -- and then into a verdict?

HOSTIN: There is a way to go and you know I always tell people trials are marathons, not sprints. This is the first couple of weeks -- first week, eight days --


HOSTIN: -- and so we've got about three to four more weeks to go --

BURNETT: Really, OK.

HOSTIN: -- but it's not looking great for the prosecution. Big, big win for the defense today, huge.

BURNETT: Wow. All right, thank you very much, Sunny. We appreciate it and of course Ted Rowlands covering that for us.

All right, well still OUTFRONT, Republican candidate Mitt Romney takes a page out of the Democratic playbook. This one is pretty neat.

And then Amanda Knox's father going to be here OUTFRONT in just a few moments to talk about her first 48 hours in the United States and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's fake jugs, "Seriously?!"


BURNETT: Well we do a lot of serious stories on this show, but we also love to do some that are more, "Seriously?!". In August, while visiting the Greek town of Phanagoria (ph) Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin found two ancient artifacts while scuba diving. Now at the time Putin had this to say about his discovery. Quote "The boys and I found them during the dive. Jugs, they date back to the 6th century B.C. The locals gave me tips on how to search." It seemed pretty incredible but pretty straightforward, so why is this a story that makes us say "Seriously?!" because it's fake.

Putin's press secretary Dmitry Peskov has now admitted the whole thing was a setup. The jugs were -- the jugs were actually found by archeologists during an expedition several weeks or days earlier and placed in six feet of water just so the prime minister would find them. Mr. Putin is known for his seriously heroic exploits, usually performed shirtless, sort of like Matthew McConaughey. Let's take a look at a few -- Putin the judo master, Putin the patient, Putin the horse whisperer, Putin the cowboy, and Putin the soldier. All I can say is how about Putin on a shirt -- "Seriously?!"

All right, remembering Steve Jobs, what he meant to America and the world. And we talk to Amanda Knox's father about his daughter's return to the United States.

Also, supermodel turned filmmaker and activist Christie Turlington is our special guest tonight. We'll be right back.


BURNETT: We start the second half of our show with stories we care about, where we focus on our own reporting, we make the calls, we find the "OutFront Five". First up tonight, President Obama held a news conference today with one of the big topics problems in Europe.


BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The problems Europe is having today could have a very real effect on our economy at a time when it is already fragile.


BURNETT: We spoke to the chief economist at IHS (ph) Global who told us the most likely outcome in Europe they'll muddle through but won't avoid a mild recession. He told us it would affect the U.S., but probably not send us back into a recession.

I reckon that's more optimistic than a lot of what you may have heard out there. But it nears what our "Strike Team" of 20 of America's top business investors say. Seventy percent say a recession is not inevitable right now. And for more on our Strike Team, please go to their web page. You see it right there.

Number two, tomorrow morning, jobs report for September will be released. Economists expect it will be grim with the U.S. adding only 60,000 jobs. The any unemployment rate is expected to hold steady at 9.1 percent. The lion's share of new jobs, we can tell you, likely to be Verizon workers returning to the job after a two-week strike. One economist tells us he expects payrolls to increase by 300,000 by the end of the year.

Number three, GOP front-runner, Mitt Romney, announced what one GOP veteran called the A-team of foreign policy experts today. It was a big effort.

And we talked to David Gordon, director of policy planning under former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. He says it's going to be tough for rival Rick Perry to match the team in strength or depth when Mitt Romney delivers his first policy speech tomorrow in Charleston, South Carolina. Our reporting of that speech said he will headline with comments on Afghanistan. Pakistan, and Chinese currency manipulation.

Number four, sales for the upcoming biography of Steve Jobs, up over 35,000 percent on Amazon since last night and news of his death. Kindle sales up even higher at 50,000 percent. The author, Walter Isaacson said he talked to Jobs just weeks ago and he asked one question that had puzzled him, why was the very private Jobs opening up to a biographer at long last? Jobs reportedly told Isaacson, quote, "I wanted my kids to know me. I wasn't always there for them and I wanted them to know and understand what I did."

The book's publisher moved up its release date one month to October 24th. And a major retailer tells us the biography will be one of the year's top best sellers, not a surprise there.

Well, it has been 62 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating, what are we doing to get it back?

Well, Steve Jobs changed the world and that's part of the reason he spent time away from home, because he was changing the world, creating something that was a symbol for America.


BURNETT: What's your favorite thing about America?

ADAM: I like the iPhone.


ADAM: Yes.

LILY: I want iPhone.


BURNETT: That was Lily and Adam, two kids we met this summer in Shanghai. And, well, you see what they liked about America.

Apple, a loud reminder to any who travels a lot around the world, that America is the world's most powerful country. I feel it all the time.

Marc Andreessen created one of the first web browsers, Netscape. He knew Jobs. He invests in new tech firms now, including Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare, and a whole lot -- a whole lot of other ones.

And, Marc, it's really great to see you.


BURNETT: I just wanted to ask you -- I know you spoke how he was a once in a century sort of person. He spoke at one point watching "The Jetsons" when he grew up, wanting to make their products real. We've got "The Jetsons" up right now.

And looking at this video of, essentially, well, I guess we'd call it face time from Warner Brothers, he created things that people thought would be in the distant future. It's just once in a century.

ANDREESSEN: Yes, and the amazing thing is not just that the products were so amazing and that it touched people's lives, that he did it over and over again. The number of people in the history of our industry, history of business, who have been able to do that is a very small set.

BURNETT: And I know you've obviously watched him and admired him your whole career. If you were to say what you thought was the neatest thing he did, or the biggest leap, biggest risk that he took, what would you say it is?

ANDREESSEN: Well, I think the biggest impact he had was the example he set for all the new entrepreneurs -- I mean, we'll see probably over 1,500 entrepreneurs, start-ups in the next 12 months at my firm. And if you sample them, 99.9 percent say their hero is Steve Jobs. So, the inspiration, I think, ultimately will be the long term impact.

In terms of, you know, in the last 15 years, I mean, people thought Apple was absolutely dead. People thought it was going to be impossible to turn that company around. It was 90 days away from bankruptcy when he came back and he turned it into the world's most valuable company. Nothing like that has ever been done before and it's just such an extraordinary -- such an extraordinary achievement.

BURNETT: One thing that -- and around the world now you see as Apple, in a way, the embodiment of American exceptionalism, that people admire, that it's not a consumer thing. It's the design, it's the intelligence, it's the creativity.

But you said you're going to see 1,500 entrepreneurs in the next 12 months. A lot of them are Americans, right?

ANDREESSEN: Although a lot are also immigrants that are inspired and have come to the United States, in many cases, to work in high- tech or to start companies.

BURNETT: Because they think they can still do that here, which is a great statement about our country.


BURNETT: What are some of the neat things that you are seeing, the next great thing that America will export around the world?

ANDREESSEN: Yes. So, the technology industry is a juggernaut right now. So, it's just doing extraordinarily well, the investment is just amazing. I think the entrepreneurs are getting better than before. And so, we are just seeing wave after wave of companies building for smartphones, building for tablets, building on top of everything Steve did.

We're also seeing computer technology and software applied now to industries like health care and education in ways that have never been possible. And so, this is the sort of spread and the opportunities of the industry have never been greater.

BURNETT: And so, mostly, is it things -- like a Facebook, right, which has completely obviously changed the world, Mark Zuckerberg but it's something you access as opposed to a physical device, like Steve -- Steve did more than that. But obviously, identify with that.

ANDREESSEN: It's much harder these days as a start-up to do physical devices. We do have a few companies like that and they very much also view Apple as inspiration. But, you know, the profound thing about things like the iPhone and the iPad is their platforms for lots of other companies built on top of Steve's ideas. You know, that are going to amazing.

And I think that was a big part of his vision the entire time.

BURNETT: So, before we go, what is one of the neatest things that you've seen? I mean, obviously, we said you're in boards of Twitter and Facebook and Foursquare -- I mean, you're at the center of everything coming out of the U.S. and Silicon Valley. But what is one of the most neatest presentations that walked through your office in the past few weeks?

ANDREESSEN: The thing we're most excited about right now is for our company Jawbone, which is the company most people know, they make Bluetooth head sets.

They have a new product coming out called UP and it's a smart bracelet. And it will have sensors in it for your all of your motion, exercise, your sleep cycles, your blood pressure, your pulse rate, you know, all kinds of aspects of your health and well-being, and then it syncs to your smartphone, it will sync to your iPhone and it will tell you everything about your health and let you be part of a community of people who are trying to improve their health. And I'm really looking forward to it. I'm talking about it in part on air and hope the CEO will give me one so I can wear it.

BURNETT: Well, I know. These people are all addicted to -- starting with Lance Armstrong, having some sort of a color band.

ANDREESSEN: This will be the new Lance Armstrong bracelet, but even better looking. And it does all these amazing things and it works with your iPhone. So, I think people will love it.

BURNETT: And because we have a jobs report tomorrow, what would you say when you look at Silicon Valley? Is it still a place where you would say jobs are being created, where it's still an example of a positive story for America or not? ANDREESSEN: Silicon Valley itself is on fire. So, the people who have technical degrees in the valley or experience in the technology business can get 10 or 30 job offers anytime they want. All of our people are constantly being called by recruiters, being asked to interview all the different companies. So, it's the best of times in that perspective.

But, you know, for people who -- in California, who don't have an engineering degree or don't have experience in high-tech, it's the worst of times and unemployment is running very high around the valley. So, we really see both.

BURNETT: Marc, thank you so much. Good to see you.

ANDREESSEN: Good. Thanks.

BURNETT: Marc Andreessen.

Well, Amanda Knox's father, Curt, is with us next, talking about his daughter, 48 hours back in Seattle, what she's doing. Curt Knox is next.

And we go inside a women's jail in Pakistan and talk to Christy Turlington.


BURNETT: We do this at the same time every night, our outer circle where we reach out to resources around the world.

First to Libya, where another audio recording believe to be from Moammar Gadhafi hit the airwaves today. We have been wondering where Gadhafi is.

Nic Robertson is in Tripoli tonight.

Nic, the message urging loyalists into the street, just another instance of Gadhafi defying the new transitional government. Are we any closer to finding him?


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, it appears not. There's nothing in this latest message, it appears to be, from Moammar Gadhafi, that would give any indication where he is. He's calling on his loyalists to come out in protests on the streets, telling them not to be afraid. Right now, the National Transitional Council facing down Gadhafi loyalists in two cities, Sirte and Bani Walid. They say they're making gains in some of those cities.

But the reality is, it seems know closer to knowing exactly where he is -- Erin.


BURNETT: All right, Nic. Amazing we still don't know. Well, now to Detroit, where a jury has been seated in the underwear bomber trial. Deborah Feyerick has been following the case closely.

And, Deb, I understand that Abdulmutallab, the bomber, is not happy with the jurors who have been selected. Why?


DEB FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, apparently, he feels the jury does not accurately reflect the Detroit community. Now, the jury is comprised of three men, nine women, two of them African-American, one Southeast Asian.

Abdulmutallab is a radicalized Muslim. He's fired his lawyers and he's going to be representing himself. And that means he'll likely be cross-examining passengers on board the plane he's accused of trying to blow up. Now, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has claimed responsibility for the plot.

The FBI director on Capitol Hill today saying the group does remain a significant threat to the U.S. -- Erin.


BURNETT: Deborah, thanks again.

And now to Alabama, where the state's controversial new immigration law is hitting home.

David Mattingly is in Atlanta tonight.

And, David, what are some of the consequences that you're starting to see?


DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, Alabama farmers have been complaining for months that they can't find enough work others to get their crops out of the field and they're saying they may soon go out of business.

But, now, critics of the Alabama law who are fighting it in court are also saying that children are being hurt as well. These are children of undocumented families who are uprooting these children, taking them out of school and moving out-of-state. In some cases, these are children who are U.S. citizen, born in the U.S. -- Erin.


BURNETT: Less than 48 hours, that's how long Amanda Knox has been back on American soil. She's currently in an undisclosed location getting reacquainted with her family after spending four years in prison in Italy.

Her father, Curt Knox, is OUTFRONT tonight, with the latest on her homecoming.

And, Curt, thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. I know it's been a long couple of days and obviously a long, long time waiting for them.

How is Amanda doing?

CURT KNOX, AMANDA'S FATHER: She's actually doing remarkably well. You know, it's almost like she hasn't missed a beat with the family. And that's been really nice to see.

BURNETT: How much -- have you had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with her? I know that obviously, everyone in the family probably wants to be with her. So, have you -- and what she's been up to?

KNOX: Well, you know, really, it's reconnecting with the family and, you know, she has a couple of twin cousins that were one year old when she was I in -- first went to Italy, and now they're 5. So, it's really neat to see her playing with them. And, you know, it's like they never missed each other. And it's really nice.

BURNETT: I know. I was remembering the night we were waiting for the flight to come in and everyone in the media world, around the world obviously, as you know, literally was watching --

KNOX: Correct.

BURNETT: -- when you came to Seattle. And she was clearly overwhelmed. She looked shell-shocked. It was amazing that she has been able to speak when she gave that impromptu comment to the press.

KNOX: Right.

BURNETT: How is she handling her adjustment?

KNOX: Well, you know, as far as the media is concerned, she was really only exposed to that for about five minutes at a time, whenever she went into a hearing within the courtroom. And I think it was definitely overwhelming at the press conference, you know, and just the emotion of, you know, getting back to Seattle and getting back on the ground, of the plane, you know, was a really big deal for her.

But she's actually kind of adjusting and, you know, kind of reconnecting with family and friends and sisters and so forth. So, it seems to really be working out very favorably right now and hopefully, it will continue that direction.

BURNETT: It sure does. And how she thought -- it seems almost obscenely early to even ask, but so many are curious, does she plan on going back to school or has she thought at all about what she might do next?

KNOX: Well, you know, with this whole circumstance and what she experienced, I think at some point down the road, she's going to be some type of activist, you know, for wrongfully convicted people. And, you know, she definitely does want to finish her degree through the University of Washington and it's just a matter of, you know, when that gets to work out and how she continues to progress.

BURNETT: Well, we all hope she does. It's an amazing story.

I want to ask you one more question, if I could, Curt. There was a report today --

KNOX: Sure.

BURNETT: -- her stepfather invited Raffaele, her old boyfriend who was also freed after four years in prison, to Seattle. And, obviously, he's someone who knows what she went through. He was in prison as well. Are they still communicating with each other at all?

KNOX: Well, yes. They actually sent mail back and forth while they were in prison in their incarceration. And, you know, they have stayed in contact, and it is a true statement, you know, the family was invited to come to Seattle.

And, you know, Raffaele is going through the same thing that Amanda is right now and really needs to get kind of reconnected. And I think at some point in time, they may come over and that would be really nice to see.

BURNETT: It sure would. And has she thought at all about reaching out to the Kercher family?

KNOX: You know, I think right now, it's a little bit premature because the Kerchers are still trying to work through the whole verdict and so forth. And, hopefully, in the long run, that they will see that really the truth is Amanda and Raffaele had nothing to do with the death of Meredith.

And, you know, I think as they hopefully get there and they're allowed closure with this horrific crime and loss of their daughter, they'll be able to recognize that Amanda and Raffaele had nothing to do with it.

BURNETT: Well, Curt, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us. I know your time right now more valuable than ever. So, we hope to hear from you again and good luck.

KNOX: Well, thank you very much for having me.

BURNETT: And now, let's check in with Anderson Cooper. He's got a look at what's ahead on "A.C. 360."

Hey, Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "A.C. 360": Hey, Erin, we're keeping them honest tonight on "360" at 8:00 p.m.

Herman Cain's willingness to speak his mind has made him a surging contender for the Republican presidential nomination, even though time after time, his statements are in direct contradictions to the facts. You're going to hear example after example ahead. "Keeping them honest."

And remember that "Bridge to Nowhere"? Well, tonight, you're going to hear about another Alaskan boondoggle, an airport being built on an inhabited island at a cost of $60 million to the taxpayers, to you. We sent "360's" Gary Tuchman to investigate, "Keeping them Honest."

Those stories and tonight's "Ridiculist" at the top of hour -- Erin.

BURNETT: Oh, I can't wait to see that airport. Thanks so much, Anderson.

All right. Well, we're going to be talking to model Christy Turlington and taking you here.


BURNETT: I'm standing outside a jail in Pakistan. What's it like inside?



BURNETT: As part of our show, we take the world OUTFRONT, literally. We are going to travel to tell stories.

And we went to Pakistan. And in addition to talking about terrorism, we went to visit a jail for women.


BURNETT (voice-over): Jail in Karachi, barrack-style living for some of Pakistan's poorest women, accused of serious crimes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kidnapping for ransom.

BURNETT: So why no jail cells? Because despite the gruesome charges, few are guilty. Only 10 percent will be convicted.

Like most of the women we spoke with, for fear their families might see them and take revenge, Karen (ph) requested we blurred her face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He used to beat me and my parents.

BURNETT: Twenty-year-old Karen said that she did not strangle her husband to death. She's been her nine months. She has met her lawyer once and has no trial date.

(on camera): Most of the prisoners here are waiting, on the day we visited, 51 of 66 prisoners were waiting for trial. One faces the death penalty for murdering her family.

(voice-over): Her name is Amna (ph). UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody comes to meet me here. Nobody is near me.

BURNETT: She says she's innocent, but she's been in jail for 13 years. Her appeal was still pending when we visited.

Even Pakistan's human rights chief acknowledges the problem.

IQBAL HAIDER, HUMAN RIGHTS CHIEF: Delay in prosecution is a major, major, major issue.

BURNETT: So how do they pass the time? This jail is one of the best in Pakistan. There is a computer room and occasional yoga classes. But the women were listless. They spend most of their time sitting, and the TV is never on.

Only the children seem immune from boredom. Yes, there are children here -- children with no memory of anything but jail. They've never even seen their own images. They stay here until 7, when Muslim law allows them to be taken from their mothers.

This seems inhuman to Anis Haroon, who heads the National Commission for Status of Women.

ANIS HAROON, CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL COMISSION FOR STATUS OF WOMEN: They definitely have some psychological influence in and leave some scars on them.

BURNETT: But starting from jail better than home?

SHEEBA SHAH, WARDEN, SPECIAL PRISON FOR WOMEN, KARACHI: Because in their homes, they are not get the facility of even wash room facility. But in jail, we have six wash room in each barrack.

BURNETT: But from the women, we heard only one answer. Better conditions for them or their children don't make up for injustice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm hopeless here. So is my dream to get free from this place.


BURNETT: We planned on showing our interview with Christy Turlington Burns yesterday after the jail piece, but the news of Steve Jobs' death prevented that. So, tonight, here it is.


BURNETT: The unequal treatment of women living in poverty isn't just a problem in Pakistan. For many, in rich and poor countries, something as natural as having a baby is a death sentence.

According to Amnesty International, more than 3,000 women die every year from childbirth. It's a shocking statistic and one that Christy Turlington Burns wants to change. She is the founder of the humanitarian group "Every Mother Counts" and the director of the documentary "No Woman, No Cry." Christy is an activist and, of course, now you see her face, she's known as a supermodel, too.

Christy, thanks so much for being with us.


BURNETT: Seeing the sick baby that we saw there in Karachi, that's something that you've seen a lot of?

BURNS: I have. I've seen a lot of sick mothers and sick families. One of our focuses at looking at a mother is that if her health is not optimal, then her entire family and community actually suffers.

BURNETT: You've been to a lot of places where this is true. Pakistan is just one place. You've been to Bangladesh. South America. You've been to Africa.

BURNS: Yes. This is a global tragedy. In my film, we look at Tanzania, Bangladesh, Guatemala, and here in the U.S. as well, where we're not doing as well as we actually should be. Amnesty International, the same report that you just mentioned, they actually have us ranked behind 50th behind 49 other countries.

BURNETT: It's shocking.

BURNS: It's absolutely shocking and completely inexcusable.

BURNETT: What are one or two reasons why women are dying in child birth?

BURNS: Well, post-partum hemorrhaging is definitely the leading cause. I'd say the majority of deaths are coming from that. And women will actually bleed to death, often times they live far away from a facility or from a doctor who can actually perform a surgery or, you know, an intervention that is necessary.

Another one is obstructed labor. That's when a mother is maybe a young girl and she's not quite developed enough to deliver her own child and the child will die in her. And then she may die herself and experience a fistula. And it's a horrific type of outcome to have, all child birth related.

Another is unsafe abortion, which continues to represent about 13 percent of all maternal deaths.

BURNETT: A lot of people don't realize, in many places like in India and China, where there's still such a preference to have boys over girls, there's such a demand for abortions.

BURNS: There are. I mean, most countries where it's not legal, it's still happening. So, it doesn't change the outcome or number of deaths or abortions actually. It just makes it less safe for more people to actually access services.

BURNETT: What about here in the U.S.? Because I think when you said we rank number 50, we'll probably shock a lot of people watching. It might shock a lot people how few pregnant women have health care in this country.

You have been talking about how pregnancy-related complications that nearly cause death, near misses in the U.S., are up 25 percent in the past 12 or so years. How is that possible?

BURNS: It's -- it is shocking. The situation here in the United States is different than it is in some of the developing countries that we've looked about. Here, for example, one of the scenarios that makes it very dangerous for women to have children is having too many caesarian sections.

Another is, you know, moms are having their children later. That can put you at risk as well.

Diabetes, obesity, these are problems that you might not see in developing countries but here are quite prevalent and it has added significantly to this number.

BURNETT: You are pushing the bill, the maternal health bill back, which I know is in Congress, they're trying to get review of maternal care in America. You're in school. You're speaking at the U.N. You are doing all of these things. You are also a mom.

How do you do all of those things?

BURNS: All the things that I'm doing now are very, very linked. I feel grateful I had a complication from my first birth and that's kind of what woke me up to these issues and understanding the global statistics that exist.

And I just feel -- I feel that I'm in a place in my life where I'm able to contribute and bring who I am and who I've become over the years of experiencing good fortune that I have and be able to share the spotlight with an issue that's really underreported and talked about enough.

So I can help other women.

BURNETT: So you're running the New York City marathon, part of the goal to raise money for "Every Mother Counts." What is the goal of that organization?

BURNS: We're really an advocacy mobilization campaign and we're sort of design to education and raise support for maternal and child health. But also, we're trying to find new ways to engage audiences, new audiences, to participate in this issue. And I believe that every woman, every person has some skill set that they can contribute in a meaningful way.

BURNETT: All right. Christy, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

BURNS: Thank you.


BURNETT: And thanks so much to you, as always, for watching. Have a great night.

"ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts now.