Return to Transcripts main page


Update on Doctor Conrad Murray`s Trial; Where Is Baby Lisa?

Aired October 12, 2011 - 19:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His body was warm. There was no change in color, so I started immediately to perform CPR.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn`t breathing. So immediately I felt for a pulse.

STEINBERG: He should have put Mister Jackson on the floor. What he did do, also, which I think is inexcusable, he started doing chest compressions.

CROWD: Four years is not enough! Four years is not enough!

STEINBERG: I don`t know a single cardiologist who uses propofol. The fact that he was giving it was unethical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got to get justice.

STEINBERG: When you monitor a patient, you never leave their side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have three pill bottles.

STEINBERG: When someone is down, you need to call 911 for help. He could have probably saved Mister Jackson at that point.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: A hands of confident cardiologist takes a stand for the prosecution and issues a strong condemnation of Doctor Conrad Murray.

Good evening everyone. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from Los Angeles. Also the godfather of Michael Jackson`s three kids speaks to me one on one in an "issues" exclusive, you do not want to miss that.

But first, today`s bombshell testimony, the man some are calling the new "Doctor Dreamy", we are going to see him in a second, vigorously attacked Doctor Conrad Murray charging the doctor`s unethical behavior is the reason why Michael Jackson is dead.


STEINBERG: Doctor Murray did not document a single thing. There was no history. There was no vital sign documented. There was no physical exam. There was no informed consent. Ad when he came to the emergency room, he was confused and didn`t have all the information.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This aggressive prosecution witness, again, "Doctor Dreamy" is what they`re calling him, described Doctor Conrad Murray as completely and utterly unprofessional, and even used Doctor Murray`s own words against him.


DOCTOR CONRAD MURRAU, MICHAEL JACKSON`S DOCTOR: So immediately I felt for a pulse. His body was warm. There was no change in color. So I started immediately to perform CPR and mouth-to-mouth he resuscitation.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And get a load of this. We`re now hearing from members of the Jackson family that Conrad Murray, they say, is lying about how he comforted Michael`s children after the king of pop died. What?

Give me a call, 1-877-JVM SAYS 1-877-586-7297. What do you think of this prosecution witness? Straight out to criminal defense attorney, Alison Triessl who joins me here tonight on a set of issues, the L.A. version.

On the scale of one to ten, did this cardiologist help the prosecution on a scale of one to ten?

ALISON TRIESSL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ten plus, ten plus. This was a good witness for them. He was knowledgeable. He laid it out very clearly for the jurors to understand and he said things that made sense to all of us. He really did well for the prosecution.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alright, Richard Herman, criminal defense attorney out of Las Vegas, what say you?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I say five maybe Jane. You know you get what you paid for and the judge s going to instruct this jury just because someone is deemed an expert, you must weigh their evidence, you must weigh their testimony. And you can either accept it or reject it.

And when Doctor Steinberg said unequivocally had 911, had the EMS been called, Michael Jackson would be alive. At that point all of his credibility goes out the window, Jane. Too professional, too much of a paid witness.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean?

HERMAN: What do I mean? It`s a ridiculous statement to make.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know if I necessarily agree with you. Why is that a ridiculous statement?

HERMAN: Because he doesn`t know the condition of Michael Jackson at the time Conrad Murray supposedly should have called 911. Here he was trying to revive him. He was performing mouth-to-mouth. He was getting air into his system. He was doing chest compressions on a hard bed. He said it was a hard bed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jump in for a second, Alison.

TRIESSL: Hold on. This doctor said the CPR by the way was counterproductive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll get to that in a second.

TRIESSL: And he said things that made sense to us. Every minute counts. It only takes a couple seconds to call 911. Those things are commonsensical. They make sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s get to the nitty-gritty of the medical issue here. This doctor, Doctor Dreamy, Doctor Steinberg, the prosecution cardiologist hammered away at Doctor Conrad Murray`s actions, even his decision to do CPR on Michael Jackson. Listen to this and then we`ll have a doctor explain. Check it out.


STEINBERG: What he did do, also, which I think is inexcusable, he started doing chest compressions. As I told you, there was a blood pressure. When there`s a blood pressure, this is a respiratory arrest. This is not a cardiac arrest.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Doctor Natalie Strand, anesthesiologist, explain in people terms what this cardiologist is talking about. He`s saying, OK, Doctor Murray runs in, doesn`t call 911, then proceeds to do CPR incorrectly on a bed, you supposedly not a flat surface. But the doctor saying, wait, CPR wasn`t really what he supposed to be doing anyway. Tell us in people terms what is he talking about.

DOCTOR NATALIE STRAND, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: There`s a very specific protocol for CPR or cardiopulmonary resuscitation. So, basically in this point where he`s not breathing but still has blood pressure. Doctor Conrad Murray said he could feel a pulse. So why do you thing if you have a car accident and the tire blows and Doctor Murray comes an workings on the window. So you really want to focus on the problem here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The problem was what, breathing?

STRAND: The problem is breathing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, you`re saying, and this is what this doctor said, doing CPR is an attempt to revive the heart.

STRAND: Correct. When you do CPR you`re doing pressure on the heart to make blood flow. If you can feel a pulse, the blood is already flowing. So, he`s actually putting pressure on a heart that`s still beating. And there`s really no reason to do that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what he should been doing was what?

STRAND: He should have been ventilating the patient. He should have been making sure that Michael Jackson was breathing. So, something like this could be as simple as repositioning the head. He may have started breathing on his own if he just repositioned the head. But certainly a mask where you can ventilate a patient in a bag mask the patient would have been something he would have done which probably could have saved Michael`s life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, so then back to you, Richard Herman. Why is it so crazy to say if he had done the right thing Michael Jackson might be alive? You just heard a doctor say if he had done the right thing, Michael Jackson might be alive.

HERMAN: Jane, he did the right thing. He performed mouth-to-mouth to ventilate him. He was doing chest compressions. And when you do chest compressions and you check for a pulse, there will be a pulse. But let`s understand something. Michael Jackson was dead, flat lined. It was over. Nothing would have saved him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love you, Richard, but we have a doctor disagreeing with you on ventilation.

STRAND: I want to clarify. If you`re actively doing CPR you would feel a pulse for doing it well. But if you take a break to check the pulse, if one person who was doing the code, he would have to take a break, there would not be a pulse if he wasn`t actively giving compressions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. I didn`t understand what you just said.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you might have to say that again. Say it a little more slowly. We`re moving fast here.

STRAND: When you`re pushing on the heart, it`s causing a pulse. When you stop pushing the pulse would stop.

HERMAN: That`s why there was a pulse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Please, I told you I didn`t understand what she was saying. I`m just trying to figure it out. Go ahead.

STRAND: Well, he could either be pushing or checking the pulse. It would be unlikely that he would be checking a pulse while pushing. That`s what I`m saying.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. All right. Well, I`m not going to medical school any time soon. All right. Not only should Doctor Murray not have done CPR according to this prosecution witness, the prosecution claims he did it very poorly. And anybody who had ever watched an episode of CSI could probably do a better job. Watch this, or "Gray`s Anatomy," watch this from today`s testimony.


STEINBERG: His CPR was good quality. In order to get good chest compressions you`ve got to go two inches. Can you imagine doing that with one hand or underneath a soft bed? You can`t. So, he should have put Mister Jackson on the floor.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. What`s your reaction to this, about the fact that he didn`t even do CPR right which is something that a lot of people who aren`t even doctors know how to do?

TRIESSL: I think it`s one on a list of many, many things that this doctor did improperly. And when you add them up, you get to gross negligence. I`m a defense attorney, and I watched as they pounded away and pounded away, and the cross examination, Flanagan didn`t make any headway. He really didn`t. At some point he should have said, all right, let me let this witness go, because he`s actually doing more damage. He continues to do damage, and let me focus on my case, on the defense`s case, because he wasn`t making any headway with this witness.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I mean the prosecution expert witness, this prominent cardiologist, he spoke directly to the jury. He was personable, he smiled and he delivered his testimony in layman`s terms which just with the interaction with the doctor is so important, I`m more like a juror. I`m not a doctor. And so he delivered this in a way that anybody with no medical training could understand. Listen to this.


STEINBERG: When you monitor a patient, you never leave their side, especially after giving propofol. It`s like leaving a baby that`s sleeping on your kitchen counter top.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Come on Richard Herman, I could visualize that, leaving a baby on a counter top. That`s the same thing, the same kind of risk as leaving Michael Jackson there and going out of the room when he`s under sedation.

HERMAN: How many times did he rehearse that phrase, Jane? But let me tell you something, the propofol was out of Michael Jackson`s system four to seven minutes after it was administered. It was gone. There was no drip going. That`s what they are going - the defense is going to go to the jury with, there was no drip, the propofol was outs of his system. He didn`t need 24-7 monitoring at that point in time.

And the issue here is causation. Causation is the issue. There was no tube from the propofol going into the drip, none. There was no propofol in any of the tubes there. They don`t have it, Jane. I`m telling you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, guess what? OK, as we go to break, why don`t you show us, doctor, what we`ve got here? We`re going to talk a little bit about the tubing. Check it out. We`ve got the tubing right here. We`re going to explain the complexity of the setup that Michael Jackson was hooked up to when he died.

Could Michael Jackson`s life have been saved? That is the biggest question of the day. We`re taking your calls at 1-877-jvm-says. We will be right back.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m looking so forward for this to be over. I bet Conrad Murray is looking forward for this to be over. I would rather hear about Michael`s moonwalk and the stuff he wanted to do for kids and heal the world and "beat it" and "billy jean," rather than his urine content and his liver percentages of his (inaudible).




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see it that way. He doesn`t correct himself. I didn`t give him a drip.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not the same dose in this case because I had given him earlier versed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said I didn`t give a drip. He said I gave a dose and drip.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not too clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will agree with you it`s not completely clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When someone is placed on propofol for sleep, 25 milligrams is again a small dose. It`s logical that there is a drip, he was giving a drip - you just told me he was giving a drip every other night including two other nights ago. He references the drip at least three times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Logically if he wanted him to sleep for an extended period of time, he would follow it up with a drip.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But he doesn`t actually say he did that, does he?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, I disagree.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. There you have that heated debate in the courtroom as one of Conrad Murray`s attorneys cross examines the cardiologist and they spar over a key, key issue. Did Michael Jackson just get 25 milligrams of propofol from Doctor Murray which he`s already admitted giving him or did he get 25 milligrams plus a drip of it, OK?

Now, this that I`m holding right here is 200 milligrams. And a bottle similar to this, I don`t know how many milligrams exactly, but a propofol bottle was found inside the saline drip.

So first of all, Doctor Natalie Strand, anesthesiologist, explain why it`s so important that the prosecution show this doctor didn`t just give 25 milligrams base that`s not enough to kill him, but gave him 25 milligrams plus a drip.

STRAND: Well, certainly if he was on a drip it would be riskier. And I agree with the cardiologist who testified, if you`re in putting someone asleep, someone who use to medication, someone whose been resisted to several benzodiazepines throughout the night, it would be unlikely that the plan would be just give 25 milligrams and then leave.

The plan was probably to maintain a level of propofol in the blood. So, that would be most likely. Of course, I don`t know if that was his plan or not. But certainly, if you were trying to keep someone asleep with propofol, you would plan a continuous infusion or continuous drip.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And just to give you, can you hold this up, how it was found. There was a saline bag like that. We`re going to show you what you`re seeing there, OK, there you are. And then this bottle, the propofol, that was sliced open and this propofol bottle, if you can hold that up, was found inside that, inside the saline, boom, and then somehow it must have been upside down and then dripping, according to the prosecution anyway, propofol into this.

Beth Karas, a couple things, one, this doctor pointed out that that would have been very unsanitary to have this bottle in this makeshift sliced-open saline bag dripping down propofol. What do you make of this whole battle? Because it`s very complicated and, of course, one of the key pieces of the drip is missing that would be a key piece of evidence.

BETH KARAS, IN SESSION CORRESPONDENT: Right. The tube that would go from the bottle hanging on the IV pole inside the IV bag down to his leg is missing. The state is probably going to argue that Conrad Murray threw it away. Because while Michael Jackson`s body was being loaded onto the ambulance by four of the paramedics/firefighters, one of the paramedics then went back upstairs to get his equipment and found Doctor Murray still up there.

So while he`s being brought down, Michael Jackson, Murray is still upstairs. Richard Sennep (ph) said I went up to get my equipment. I saw Doctor Murray. He had a black trash bag in his hands and he was apparently collecting things in the room. And Murray looked at Sennep (ph), according to Sennep (ph) with a deer caught in the headlights look.

Now, that bag has never been found. So, I believe the state will argue he had an opportunity to grab that long tube. He had ordered Alberto Alvarez, assuming you believe the security guard, to remove the saline bag with the bottle in it. Take that down. But leave the bag that had saline in it, leave it there. That`s what the medical examiner collected four days later, didn`t know it was relevant to the investigation at that time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth, I want to interrupt you for a second. This is what you are talking about. Like this crucial piece of tubing that goes from the saline bag, that is missing?

KARAS: Well, I don`t see anything -

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We lost her. This is like "Star Trek." people beam out. Alright, Doris in Texas, your question or thought Doris?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s your question or thought Doris?

DORIS: I love your energy. My first question as just a layperson that had psych 101 has anyone done a psychological workup on Doctor Murray. It seems like -


DORIS: I haven`t heard anybody mention whether or not he`s had a workup. Sounds like he has a total God complex. I mean not only is he fancy with the ladies, but -

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Doris, excellent, excellent point. And we`re going to find out. And for even more in dept Michael Jackson coverage, you`ve got to check out our blog.

Unbelievable reaction to Doctor Steinberg`s testimony, tells of analysis and color from the Conrad Murray trial. Six ways the doctor believes Doctor Conrad Murray messed up. Check it all. It`s all there



MURRAY: Weeping, really weeping. I stayed there, hugged them all, gave them comfort to Paris, comfort to Prince, comfort to Blanket. Whenever they were sick, they would always ask for Doctor Conrad, please call Doctor Conrad, daddy. I gave them comfort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All those things he said about Paris and Prince and Blanket, comforting them, sympathizing with them, he says that didn`t happen.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: How much is Doctor Conrad Murray`s credibility on the line? He claims that he comforted Michael Jackson`s three kids when they were told that their father was dead. But it turns out and you just heard there, that the Jackson family says that never happened. This guy has been caught in - let`s call it what it is, lies, Alison Tiessl, he said he can`t call 911 because there are no phones in the house. He has two cell phones on him.

TRIESSL: Well, the first clearly, is that you never as a defense attorney allow your client to be interviewed without some kind of agreement that they`re not going to prosecuted. They let them have a no holds barred interview for two hours and then you`re stuck with that story. You don`t know what the police have investigated. You don`t know what`s to come. Make them prove their case. Why would you go in and have your client just basically lock you in to this story?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And we`re looking at Doctor Conrad Murray there. He is the defendant on trial for the homicide of Michael Jackson. Richard Herman, he spoke to police for more than two hours at the Ritz- Carlton in Marina Delray, a very fancy hotel. And now they`re locked into that statement and they can`t really backtrack off it. It`s going to be hard, isn`t it?

HERMAN: That`s going to be great, Jane, because now he doesn`t have to testify and there`s no way he`s going to testify. You have his version. And like you said earlier, the credibility of Doctor Murray, will the jury believe he only gave 25 milligrams. Did the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Conrad Murray delivered the lethal dose of propofol and that`s what killed Michael Jackson?

If the jury believes that, then he`s going to be convicted. But so far, there are a lot of holes in that story and they don`t have it, just like in the Casey Anthony case. They didn`t connect it up at the end. So far they haven`t connected it. There`s a lot of leap of faiths here. It`s not about his girlfriends. It`s not about what most likely happened or what logically happened, but did they prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse me it`s not just about cause of death. It`s about recklessness. Because this is reckless disregard. It`s not, oh, I planned on killing somebody. Involuntary manslaughter doesn`t require intent. And so, all it has to show is reckless disregard. One of today`s big guest points is that Michael Jackson should never have been given propofol, period, end of story, gross deviation, enough on its own to convict. Listen to this.


STEINBERG: Propofol is not indicated for sleep. And absolutely, if you give propofol and afterwards they`re still sleeping, something is wrong. You need to arouse the patient and you need to figure out what level of sedation there is because something could be going wrong.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And I got to tell you answer Doris` question from Texas, there is no indication that he was given, Doctor Conrad Murray, any kind of psychological profile unlike, for example, Casey Anthony who the trial started as she got three shrinks to analyze her. It didn`t happen here.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The infant`s mother is seen on this video buying baby supplies from the local market on the very day her child went missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see Deborah Bradley, Lisa`s mother, and another man walk into this grocery store, which is about a mile or so away from this neighborhood here. And they walked away, everything looks very calm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s the sweetest little girl I`ve ever seen. She`s always smiling. When you go up to her and you tickle her, she starts laughing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family. She means everything to my boys, and we -- we need her home.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is Baby Lisa? Police in Kansas City, Missouri, say the gorgeous 11-month-old baby girl -- what a beautiful child -- vanished without a trace last week, apparently snatched from her crib. Baby Lisa`s mom, Deborah Bradley, told cops she put her daughter to bed at about 10:30 on Monday night, October 3rd.

When the baby`s dad came home from work the following morning -- and he worked the overnight shift, so he comes back at about 4:00 in the morning -- he tells police the door is open, the lights are on, the front window is open. And he sees that the door to the baby`s room is open. He goes in there and investigates, the baby is gone.

Police have -- well they say they have no leads, they have no suspects, but they were very curious about this particular development. Hours before Baby Lisa disappeared, her mom, Deborah Bradley was seen at a grocery store with a man who is not Jeremy Irwin, Lisa`s father. This is surveillance video from the store. The mom, there she is, buying a box of wine with a male friend. She is also picking up baby wipes and baby food with this male friend. The video shows them right here checking out at the checkout counter, chatting with the store clerk.

So, this extraordinary video shows what the mother was doing just a few hours before the child was, according to her, last seen.

Straight out to Ed Lavandera who has obtained exclusively this video and also spoke exclusively with the clerk at the store -- quite a scoop, Ed. Congratulations on that. What have you learned?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it was really interesting because this kind of gives us a sense of what Deborah Bradley, the mother of Baby Lisa was doing about five and a half hours before she had told police that she put the baby to sleep last Monday night. She comes into the store with that friend, and the clerk tells us that that is someone that she had seen Deborah and her husband hang out with before. She had seen the three of them together, kind of mixing and matching. Definitely, we`ve gotten the sense that that is someone they know.

They spent about six minutes in the store. Everything seemed jovial at times. Actually if you take a close look at that video, as she`s walking out Deborah seems to have a big smile on her face. The clerk that we talked to said that they`ve had long conversations over -- she has worked there a couple years -- has seen them in and out of the store many times, sometimes with the kid, sometimes without.

And the one thing that struck me is that she had mentioned, she mentioned -- the clerk told me that over the years, especially during the time that Deborah was pregnant with Baby Lisa that both parents had talked about how happy they were to finally being able to raise a daughter and how much they were looking forward to that. This clerk had seen Baby Lisa on a number of occasions and talked about how beautiful she was and how friendly and how happy and jovial the baby was.

So it was interesting insight to some of the dynamics. She did tell us also Jane that she was interviewed by FBI agents on Saturday for about 30 minutes. And the questions that they asked her really focused heavily on Deborah. What was her state of mind? Did she seem nervous? Did she seem panicked? Did she ever mention anything that someone was angry at her? That sort of thing; those were the kind of questions that she told us that FBI agents were very much interesting in hearing the responses to -- her responses to.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I hear that you have some sound --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ed, I hear you have some sound that you`ve obtained. Tell us about that. Let`s hear that.

LAVANDERA: Yes. We can listen to little bit. We kind of talked to her about a number of things. I think the things that stood out the most to me were we asked her about her conversations with the FBI agents and what they wanted to know. And talked about what she told those FBI agents as to Deborah`s state of mind last Monday afternoon.


REBECCA GUERRERO, STORE CLERK: They pretty much asked me, you know, if she was depressed, you know, if she seemed depressed, how she acted around the baby, if she seemed stressed out. Pretty much questions that I would know, because she would talk to me a lot, you know.

LAVANDERA: And what did you tell them?

GUERRERO: I pretty much told them she never looked depressed around me. You know, she always seemed to have a smile on her face when her kids were around.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go out to Mike Brooks now and ask Mike, HLN law enforcement analyst, what is the significance of the FBI focusing in on this shopping spree where the mother buys wine out of a box, which I never even knew wine came in a box until yesterday --



VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- with this man. Yes. And now they`re talking to the checkout lady. What does it mean?

BROOKS: Well, the FBI agents, they are specialists in dealing with possible child abductions, possible child abductions. So they`re looking for specific clues when they`re talking to this woman, just like they probably did when they talked to Deborah Bradley.

But again, it`s all part of the investigation. You have to follow up on every lead, anyone she had contact with. You want to talk to them. I would want to talk to them and find out exactly state of mind. How many times you see it? Who is she with? How many times did you see her with this guy? Did you see her with her boyfriend and this guy?

All the questions that probably were asked by a lot of other people and probably they were asked by Eddie Lavandera.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s listen to what the store clerk told Ed Lavandera when he spoke to her exclusively and asked her if it was strange to see Deborah Bradley, the mom of the missing 11-month-old child, with another man buying wine?


GUERRERO: No, because they normally are around each other a lot. If it`s not her and him, it`s her fiancee and him and they`re just like really close friends.

LAVANDERA: With this Philip (ph) guy?


LAVANDERA: All right. So you had seen them together before?

GUERRERO: Yes, but they were not -- not just those two together, they would be with Jeremy as well.


GUERRERO: Like they were really close friends.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let`s say this mother is not considered a suspect or a person of interest according to law enforcement. And we don`t want to condemn her for going and buying wine with a male friend. It could be a very innocent explanation for all of that, Alison Triessl.

ALISON TRIESSL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And actually I think it really bodes well for her that she bought baby wipes and food. Anybody that is going to kill a child isn`t going to stockpile food and wipes to only a few hours later kill the child. So I think that`s actually -- you know, actually helpful for whether or not she was involved.

Now, certainly things could have gone wrong later in the evening, but at that moment she had no intention of harming this child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would be very interested to know whether there was wine left over in the box of wine --

TRIESSL: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- or whether all the wine was consumed because part of the problem is she says that she went to sleep with one of the older children, a 6-year-old boy, and she did not hear apparently this intruder who broke in through a window allegedly and turned on all the lights, and then went into the baby`s room, took the baby and walked out the front door and she didn`t hear any of it.

Well, if you had been drinking some wine, you might be -- you might not wake up. You might be passed out.

Here is a cop trying to get into the window that the family believes the intruder entered.

And here is another thing the store clerk said about Deborah Bradley, the missing child`s mother`s demeanor that afternoon. Listen to this. It`s a clue maybe.


GUERRERO: She had a smile on her face. I mean like she always does when she comes in here. She loves her kids to death, you know. I always ask her how the kids are doing, you know. She tells me they`re great, you know.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here is the bizarre thing about this is that the police keep saying that this mother is not a suspects. Some of the relatives have been quoted as saying that they thought that she`s going to be arrested. They feel that maybe the police have to pin it on somebody and that somebody is Deborah Bradley.

They`ve kind of backtracked from that, Mike Brooks. But you get a sense that there`s a lot of focus on this mom even though friends say she was a wonderful mother, had absolutely no reason to harm her child. And yet it seems to linger because, for example, she herself said that cops told her she failed a polygraph, Mike.

BROOKS: Right. I mean you want to eliminate people closest to the little girl. And maybe the law enforcement, they`re not quite satisfied yet, Jane, with some of the answers they were getting. It could have been the polygraph. It could have been something from her boyfriend, the baby`s father. It could have been other things. But they`re still looking -- they searched a wooded area today. But still have they totally eliminated her? We have not heard that.

Law enforcement, they`re not giving up much information. And as a former investigator, you know, that`s a good thing. They shouldn`t be throwing things out there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, listen. We`re just getting started on this subject. We`re going to go back to Ed Lavandera who got an exclusive interview and obtained video of a store surveillance exclusively.

And we`re also going to take your calls. Where is Baby Lisa? Could a mystery man have played a role in her disappearance? Give me a holler, what are your theories? What are your questions? 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.

Later we`re going to talk to the godfather of Michael Jackson`s three children. And remember, we`ve got more of Michael Jackson analysis on our blog. Is Dr. Conrad Murray`s defense team switching their strategy mid- trial?

Looks like they`re dropping their original theory of how Michael Jackson died. Find out what they may be trying to prove. Go to



GUERRERO: She`s the sweetest little girl I`ve ever seen. She`s always smiling. When you go up to her and you tickle her, she starts laughing. She`s very -- she seems like she doesn`t have a problem with strangers.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, that woman is a store clerk, and she witnessed the mother of missing Baby Lisa several hours before the child was last seen going into a grocery store with a male friend and purchasing a box of wine and then leaving. And she also, the mother, purchased baby wipes and baby food which, of course, observers are saying, well, that sounds like a mother who is concerned about her child. If she were thinking of doing anything untoward with her child, why would she buy baby food and baby wipes?

Again, she`s not considered a suspect. This is a mystery. Nobody has any idea what happened to her child who was allegedly snatched, abducted from her bedroom, a child who just turned 11 months yesterday.

Gloria, Nevada, your question or thought from caller Gloria?

GLORIA, NEVADA (via telephone): Hi, Jane.


GLORIA: Yes, My question is where was the baby at the time she was at the store?


GLORIA: Who was taking care of the child while she was at the store?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a very good question. Ed Lavandera, you spoke exclusively to this store clerk. Meantime there`s the baby who was ten months old, there`s two older boys as part of this blended family. Who was watching the kids while she`s at the store?

LAVANDERA: We`re getting that question a lot. It was one of the first things that popped into my head as we were watching the video this afternoon speaking with the clerk. But she did say that it wasn`t out of the ordinary, sometimes she would show up with the children, sometimes she wouldn`t.

In my head, just kind of doing some math here -- we haven`t had a chance to ask the family that question. They`re not really taking questions anymore from us. But if the father got home around 4:00, let`s say he worked a four-hour shift that means that he would have gone to work maybe around 8:00, 7:00 at night. This was just before 5:00 in the afternoon.

So conceivably maybe he hadn`t left for work yet. The children could have been at home with him. That`s just guessing on my part. Just, you know, some logical guessing but we don`t know where the kids were at the time and who was watching them at the time. But they clearly weren`t with their mother.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So again, more from your exclusive interview with the store clerk. You asked the store clerk if she thought Baby Lisa`s parents had anything to do with this precious little child`s disappearance.

Let`s listen to the answer she gave to Ed Lavandera.


GUERRERO: From my interaction, I really don`t think they have anything to do with this. I mean I really don`t. I mean I can`t -- you know, I can`t sit here and say that yes or no because I don`t know what is going through their minds. But I honestly think they have nothing to do with it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, there are no suspects according to police. What do you make of the fact that the mother reportedly said that the cops told her she failed the polygraph, but the cops are like, well, that`s what she`s saying, we`re not saying that?

BROOKS: Well, and they`re not going to say it. I can guarantee you that right now. Maybe she did. Some people react differently to a polygraph. And you know, I always say, Jane, a polygraph is only as good as the examiner who is giving it. So maybe there were some inconclusive answers that weren`t what we`d say, lies, if you will. So I`d have to take a look at the sheet itself to whether -- to say whether or not she actually failed it or some of the answers were inconclusive.

But I find it interesting that there`s now a private investigator involved in all of this, Jane, who apparently -- they`re not saying who is paying for him -- but apparently there`s some rich guy out there who paid for this private investigator, a retired NYPD cop who is retired on disability who is down there now and who is with the family, who is with the other family members and is apparently going to be the liaison, if you will, with the media now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right, a private security consultant says a wealthy family just came out of the blue and said we want to help find this 10-month-old child who just turned 11 months old yesterday.

Actually the private investigator is Bill Stanton; somebody that we`ve had on our show ISSUES a number of times. Very good private eye and he has a lot of gum shoe sense, so to speak.

Alison Triessl, what do you make of the mom saying she failed the polygraph, this trip to the store, the fact that the family has this private eye that`s going to speak for them?

TRIESSL: That`s bizarre. And as a defense attorney I`ve never had a wealthy financier come in and say I`m going to hire a private eye for you. The fact he`s speaking for the family is strange, but still I have to say there`s nothing really conclusive. And unfortunately it does happen that intruders come into homes. It does.

In terms of the grocery store, I just don`t think the behavior is that bizarre or suspicious.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, especially if the boyfriend -- he`s not the husband -- but the father of the missing child knows this guy, they`ve been seen all three of them together. It`s just a friend who happens to be male and they happen to be buying wine. I don`t think we should read anything into it.

But again, we want to analyze everything because we want to be part of trying to find Baby Lisa. Thanks, Ed Lavandera for bringing us your exclusive information that you obtained. And thank you fantastic panel.

Now, at the top of the hour we`re going to have a whole lot more on the search for Baby Lisa. Nancy Grace has the latest and breaking news on that front at 8:00 p.m.

Up next, my exclusive interview.



CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: The children cried and cried and cried -- (INAUDIBLE) -- a lot of words of unhappiness. And she will never live without her dad and she didn`t want to be an orphan.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we are delighted to have with us tonight exclusively on ISSUES the one and only Mark Lester, the godfather to Michael Jackson`s youngest child Blanket and a very close personal friend of Michael Jackson who has been following obviously this trial.

Let me ask you about your relationship with Michael Jackson. You are the godfather to Blanket.

MARK LESTER, GODFATHER TO MICHAEL JACKSON`S CHILDREN: That`s right. I am -- Michael made me godfather to all of his children. It started off with Blanket and then he said he would like me to be godfather to Paris and Prince as well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you concerned that even if Dr. Conrad Murray is convicted, the maximum he could get is four years?

LESTER: Well, it`s all horrendous. And whatever happens to Dr. Murray through the court system will never bring Michael back. I think -- to be honest, if he is made an example of, then that`s not right either. He should be punished. Maybe he should just have his doctor`s license taken away. Putting him in prison, I don`t know. I don`t think really that`s going to make -- achieve anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have spoken to a lot of people who say, as you say, Michael Jackson was a great, great dad. What do you think they`re going through during this time?

LESTER: I should imagine it`s, you know, it`s two years on -- plus two years on, and time is a great healer, but to have this all brought back up again and put into the spotlight, it will be absolutely horrendous for them to see -- of which I have seen horrendous for them to see, of which I`ve seen horrendous and disgusting pictures of Michael lying dead on a slab.

I mean I can`t begin to understand what those poor children are going through.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The defense has described Michael Jackson as a desperate man, desperate to get some sleep because of the pressures of this concert and unable to. Did you get a sense of him being desperate and when was the last time you talked to him?

LESTER: I spoke to him about four days prior to his death. He did not strike me as being someone desperate to get to sleep. He was very positive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not nervous or stressed out at all?

LESTER: No, not at all. Completely opposite; really confident, really -- he was so up with -- brimming -- the best I`ve seen Michael for a long, long time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did he want to prove with this concert? What did Michael Jackson want to prove to the world?

LESTER: Michael wanted to say, here I am, you know, there`s been a lot of bad things said about me, but I can do it. I can perform, and I`m going to come back with the greatest show ever seen. And, my God, it`s just such a crime that the whole world was robbed of an opportunity to see what I`m sure would have been the most definitive pop show ever seen before.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mark Lester, I want to thank you for a fantastic interview and for taking the time, and I just appreciate your sharing your thoughts.

LESTER: Thank you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can`t get enough Michael Jackson coverage? Check out our blog where you can see my exclusive interview with the king of pop`s keyboardist. He was part of the "This Is It" tour and he was rehearsing with Michael Jackson just hours before his death. Find out what he has to say about the pop legend`s last hours. It`s all at

And you can also join us tomorrow. The prosecution may very well have wrapped up its case by then. We`ve only got the end of this witness and then one more witness. So how would you rate the prosecution`s case? Give me a call tomorrow right here on ISSUES because I want to hear from you about this extraordinary case.

All right. Now, coming up, Nancy Grace is up next. She`s back from "Dancing with the Stars", still a contender. She can win it. And she`s got the very latest on missing Baby Lisa.