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Police Search for Baby Lisa; Salon Owner Tried to Head Off Gunman

Aired October 14, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JEREMY IRWIN, FATHER OF MISSING GIRL: Came home from work. The front door was unlocked. Most of the lights were on in the house, and the window was -- in the front was open.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER OF MISSING GIRL: She`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family. Our two other boys are waiting for her. Please. Just drop her off anywhere. We don`t care. Just somewhere safe where she can come home. Please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The infant`s mother is seen on this video buying baby supplies from the local market on the very day her child went missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see Deborah Bradley, Lisa`s mother, and another man walk into this grocery store, which is about a mile or so away from this neighborhood here. And they walk away. Everything looks very calm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is the baby? Seriously, where is the baby? That is what makes me so sad. And makes you have that feeling in your stomach. The more time that goes by, the outcome is just not going to be good.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Eleven days. That`s how long baby Lisa`s been missing. So, are police any closer to finding this precious child?

Good evening, everyone. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live from our Los Angeles studios.

Tonight, we`re learning police investigating baby Lisa`s disappearance have been showing neighbors a photo of a homeless man known to frequent the area. Could he be the one who took baby Lisa? Nobody can find him.

Police officers with dogs and all-terrain vehicles out searching, again, behind baby Lisa`s parent`s home. And today, they focused on a rock quarry in a heavily wooded area. So far, absolutely nothing.

Meantime, Lisa`s parents, well, they first reported their baby missing 11 days ago after the child`s dad came home from his overnight shift to find baby Lisa missing from her crib. Police suspect she was taken out of her bedroom window. There they are testing that theory, seeing how easy it would be or not for somebody to get into that window.

The family released some new home videos of baby Lisa, and they will absolutely break your heart. Check this out from YouTube.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who are you talking to? Drink your baba.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look at that poor, defenseless child. Where is that child tonight? It certainly breaks my heart to know that that little baby is out there somewhere or maybe even worse than that. That this angelic, angelic child might have come to some harm. We don`t want to think that. We`re trying to be part of the solution and hoping to find that child OK.

Today, a relative of the missing baby told reporters the family is praying somebody will come forward with information that will bring Lisa home.


MIKE LERETTE, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Anything. The smallest thing can bring her home to us. And we`re just waiting on that one phone call, and we`ll have her back home.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Baby Lisa`s only 11 months old. It`s not like somebody is going to find her walking down the road. She`s a baby. She was in her crib, and she just disappeared. She`s completely dependent on whoever snatched her. We`ve got to find her.

Straight out to CNN`s Ed Lavandera, who`s been all over the story from the beginning, since the child vanished. He is live in Kansas City, Missouri, this evening.

Ed, tell us about the breaking news regarding this photograph cops are showing to neighbors. What do we know?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we`ve been hearing from various people. I`ve actually seen at one point officers in a neighborhood not too far away from here showing people in the neighborhood this picture. They`re not releasing this picture publicly, but in speaking with several people who have seen it, they say it`s a white male, about six feet tall, average build. They -- perhaps it`s someone that was a homeless person.

In fact, we spoke with one person who saw the picture who had actually told police that they had seen this person about two months ago in a nearby park. The conversation got a little odd, this person told us, as the man was trying to find for -- find some work. And then about a week and a half ago, he told police that he saw this guy walking through his neighborhood...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is this Jersey, Ed? Is this Jersey? Is this the guy known as Jersey, who apparently was thrown out of a bar because he was drunk? A bar owner told KCTV that he last saw Jersey when he kicked him out of his establishment on October 1 for being drunk, and this guy hadn`t been seen since. Is this Jersey?

LAVANDERA: I`ve seen those reports. And that`s what I`m not exactly sure of at this point. If these are two different people that we`re talking about or if it is, indeed, the same person.


Baby Lisa`s dad was the one who called 911 to report the child missing. He had come home from the overnight shift. Here`s a portion of that call from ABC`s "Good Morning America." Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He noticed his screen is busted, and his 10- month-old daughter is missing. He advised that he didn`t witness anything and don`t know how long she`s been gone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, now, apparently, there were a number of cell phones in the home that were taken or mysteriously disappeared. What do we know about that? Because I think some people are wondering, well, wouldn`t the father have had a cell phone when he came from the overnight shift? Does it strike you as odd?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, there`s a couple of things that strike me as odd in this, Jane.

First of all, and I was talking to Ed Lavandera the other night after the show about this. The father doesn`t usually work this particular shift. All right? And it just happens that his daughter disappears when he`s working this overnight shift. He`s an electrician. Do they -- are they able to account for any service calls to houses or businesses that he may have gone to that night, up until 4 something when he got home? That`s not making a lot of sense either.

And then, what you point out, the phones. You know, he would have had a phone with him had he been there, you know, out working as an electrician where they have the dispatches by radio, dispatches by phone, and the phones were missing. Were they on? Were they powered up? If so, are they pinging anywhere? These are questions that have yet have been answered to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and the cops are not saying anything.

Now, one of the controversial aspects of this case is that the mother herself, the mother of the missing child came out, and said that she was under the impression from cops that she had failed a polygraph. She is not considered a suspect, but it was odd that she came out and volunteered that information.

Now, I spoke to Nancy Grace earlier today about baby Lisa`s disappearance, and she pointed out some hard facts about cases like this. Listen to Nancy.


NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: I`m always concerned when someone comes into the home and takes a baby while one of the parents or caregivers are there. Somewhere around 80 percent of the time when a child goes missing, it is a familial abduction.

The father had just started working the night shift. As a matter of fact, that may have been his very first night. And the coincidence that that would be the night that someone breaks into the home, I find very disturbing, because as I`ve always said, there is no coincidence in criminal law.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So Tim Miller, you`re the director of Texas EquuSearch. You`ve covered many disappearances. Are there too much of a -- are there too many coincidences piling up here? Dad`s first night on the night shift? Somebody must -- could have known that, I would say.

TIM MILLER, DIRECTOR, EQUUSEARCH (via phone): Well, I mean it sounds like the Haleigh Cummings case, doesn`t it? It`s the same time frame. The father was working nights. And, you know, there`s a lot of similarities between little Haleigh`s case.

And you know, I`m really surprised that a larger search has not happened in this. You know, we can go back to Caylee Anthony case.

And, you know, I think that the parents really need to be drilled on this, as there`s far more than a coincidence the first night he`s working nights, he comes home and this baby`s gone. So I think a lot of the investigative work needs to be done and a lot of questions need to be asked. And I don`t think there`s going to be answers to those questions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think there are a lot of questions. And look at this child. We are now looking at this videotape of this precious child. It breaks my heart. Eleven months old. Completely helpless. And there she is yawning. What an angel. And what`s happened to her?

Now, here`s another very bizarre twist in this case. A wealthy, anonymous benefactor today stepped in and offered $100,000 in a reward. And they`re also apparently paying for a private investigator and a psychologist who specializes in threat assessment. Listen to this.


BILL STANTON, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: To me, she is a rock star in her field. She`s not well-known. But in my community, in the law enforcement community, she is well-known, and she`s excellent at what she does. Her name is Dr. Marisa Randazzo.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that doesn`t make any sense to me, somebody who is assessing threats. But I have to tell you, Mike Brooks, I spoke with this private investigator today on the phone, Bill Stanton. And he said to me, this wealthy benefactor/benefactors are philanthropists, and they have a connection to the family. But it`s not necessarily a close connection. It could be a distant connection. He wouldn`t elaborate.

He said they called him up and they said, "You`re not working for the family. You`re working for that baby. You -- your assignment is to find that child."

And he also told me he has no allegiance to anyone but the truth, and he is going to not look over the shoulder of cops, but anything he finds, he`s going to give to cops. What do you make of this mystery benefactor -- Mike?

BROOKS: You know, I don`t know. To be honest, the first thing I thought about, and just like Casey Anthony, I thought about Leonard Padilla inserting himself into the case. But I`m sure if it were him -- if it were him, he`d be out there in front.

But no, a $100,000 reward. I`m not crazy, though, Jane, about having parallel investigations by a private investigator and by law enforcement, especially, you know, early on in the investigation, even though it`s been a little time now.

And now, this psychologist, I don`t know who she is. Maybe she specializes in some kind of behavioral -- maybe a behavioral scientist. They say threat assessment. And that can go in line with behavioral sciences. But I`m not crazy about a dual investigation going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s just another odd twist.

BROOKS: It is, it is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And just to jump in for a second, we`ve got another guest, a very special guest joining us now in an ISSUES exclusive. It is a father who experienced a very similar thing, and he has never stopped looking for his son. Gil Abeyta has been searching for his missing son, Christopher, for 25 years.

Gil, your son was 7 months old when he was snatched from his crib, and there are even more similarities between your case and the case we`re talking about, baby Lisa out of Kansas City. Thank you for joining us, sir, and we share your heartache that has gone on for so long.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell us about the similarities between your two cases.

ABEYTA: That`s what really got me here, is that, although we`ve been working with missing children for about 25 years in many areas, I happened to be sleeping on -- I think it was Monday morning. And I heard the news, and I heard this case. I thought it was a recap of everything that we had done and what happened, and lie detector tests and mother being -- failing this and that. I thought, this is really strange.

So, I woke up, and I got some more news on it. And I felt that we could be of service. And we could come in and provide information, maybe some strategy, possible some type of investigation because we`ve been doing it for such a long time, that we know our case inside and out. And they were so similar that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this, Gil. Gil...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this: did people suspect you when your child disappeared? Do you relate to that?

ABEYTA: Yes. Yes. They did. That`s automatic. OK? Now, that`s going to happen right away. They`re going to suspect the family.

I think that my wife was unnecessarily -- she was beaten up by everybody, because the mothers seem to take the main fold of everything that happens. And -- but we survived. You wonder how you survive under those conditions, but we know exactly. And we say this, because I`ve talked to so many people, that we know what they`re going through. We know what their mind is going. What they`re doing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we sympathize with you. We sympathize with this family. We are not drawing any conclusions here. There`s a child missing, and we don`t know who took the child or why. It`s a mystery.

More on the desperate search for baby Lisa. The search for this adorable child intensifying tonight. Where is baby Lisa?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had a smile on her face. I mean, like she always does when she comes in here. And she, you know, loves her kids to death. You know, I always ask how the kids are doing, you know? She tells me they`re great, you know.




LERETTE: We`re hanging in there. Thank you very much. And just keep praying. We feel just keep praying. Please, please, please, keep praying.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a family member coming out and speaking for the family.

Baby Lisa`s mother and father have been heavily scrutinized since their adorable child vanished. Surveillance cameras even caught the baby`s mother shopping at a local grocery store for baby food, baby wipes and a box of wine just hours before the child disappeared. And the man she`s with was initially described as a mystery man, but it turned out to be the mother`s brother, so that didn`t seem suspicious after we found out that, oh, it`s her brother, and she`s often seen going into the store with her brother.

When I spoke to Nancy Grace, she wondered about that wine, the box of wine they bought.


GRACE: I`d like to find out how much of that big honking box of wine the mom bought was recovered. Was she out cold? What happened to that? And I`d also like to find out, which is going to be very, very telling, Jane, who last saw the baby alive.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an interesting question. Who last saw baby Lisa? I want to bring in John Hamilton, former Kansas City law enforcement.

John, thanks for joining us. What I`d like to know is after the mother bought that box of wine with her brother, what did they do? Did they come straight back to the house? Where is the wine? Has it been consumed entirely or partially? What did the brother see? There are so many unanswered questions. And John, the cops are not saying very much at all.

JOHN HAMILTON, FORMER KANSAS CITY LAW ENFORCEMENT (via phone): Well, I`m sure that`s true. Much of this obviously has to be kept under wraps for a variety of reasons. One, you wouldn`t want to tip your hand in an investigation, and secondly, you have to be cautious of what you do say. You don`t want to say something that would be incorrect.

I`m sure that, as they have hold of that house with that search warrant, that they -- they went over all of those things and probably found that type of evidence in the house initially when they went through it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mike Brooks, I think it`s very interesting that on the surveillance video, we have the mother. She`s seen buying baby wipes and baby food along with the wine. To me, that would say she certainly didn`t intend to do anything untoward to a child. Because why would she have bought those items?

BROOKS: Good question. And, you know, the clerk. Does she buy that on a regular basis? The clerk basically said that she sees them in there. She sees her. She sees her brother. She sees her fiance. They`re in there all the time. Sometimes together, sometimes separately. Different - - just all the time. But I don`t find that -- I don`t find that, you know, that`s suspicious.

The phones though, Jane. I really find that. And as I said before, Jeremy Irwin working the first time, the night shift or never works night shift very often. I just -- I just can`t get past that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Patricia, new Jersey. Your question or thought, Patricia, on the phone.

CALLER: I`m sorry?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your question or thought, Patricia.

CALLER: Oh, I`m just was calling in. I felt so bad for the mother. I just hope that, you know, that the baby`s found healthy and you know, of course, alive. I would hate to think anything different.

But it just concerns me with some of the things that were put out there on the air in regards to the disappearance of the poor baby. She was a beautiful baby girl. I mean, I just feel sorry for the parents. I just hope that she -- you know, that she comes home soon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Patricia. We all do. Look at that angelic child. We pray she is found alive. Next.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police department responded to the sounds of shots being fired inside of the hair salon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gunman walked into the salon at 1:20 and put a gun to the stomach of one of the employees.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t what to say. So many lives that are touched by these people that were so wonderful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Currently, the suspect is in custody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This isn`t something that happens at Seal Beach. It`s not something that we`re accustomed to. It is probably one of the greatest tragedies to hit the Seal Beach area.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, more on that horrific, bloody massacre that killed eight people. Eight people. And critically wounded an elderly woman, all at a hair salon.

Last night on ISSUES, I spoke with somebody who knows the suspect, Scott Dekraai, and their kids go to school together. She saw the entire event. She works next door.


KIM CRISWELL, SHOOTING WITNESS: We all ran into -- I gathered everybody in the salon -- there were nine of us -- and just locked ourselves into the bathroom. Everyone was actually pretty in shock, frightened, crying. I mean, and the staff just saw what happened. It was traumatizing and we were just trying to keep everybody calm, because we had no idea what -- what the situation was at that time. And we were afraid that he might come in.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This was a crowded hair salon. This guy even shot a man who just happened to be sitting in his car outside the hair salon. The D.A. says he`s going after the death penalty.

Joining me is tonight exclusively is the niece of the victim, Tami Scarcella, in her first national interview.

Tami, first of all, my heart goes out to you. Everyone here, all the staff, our condolences to you. And this unnecessary, senseless, hideous violence is just unconscionable and unimaginable. So thank you for joining us.

Your uncle was Randy Fannin, the owner of the salon, and a hero who could have gotten out but who remained to try to defuse the situation. I know your family has started a fund for the victims, Your uncle was a hero. Tell us how.

TAMI SCARCELLA, NIECE OF RANDY FANNIN: Randy was always a very stand- up man. And he -- he came right in. And as soon as he saw Scott, he tried to defuse the situation by talking to him. And Sandy reported hearing him say, "Please, let`s find another way. You don`t have to do this." And then just shots rang out.

And so, I know that he tried to stop. His station was by a door. He could have very easily ran out. Instead, he went into protection mode for his family at the salon. We considered them all family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tami, I understand that this gunman, this alleged gunman, whose ex-wife worked in the salon, had come in recently and threatened to do something like this. What do you know about that?

SCARCELLA: What I know is that they had a very volatile relationship, and he made a lot of empty threats a lot of times. And I don`t believe that Randy and Sandy ever could have imagined that he would have taken anything to this level.

I know that they -- they supported Michelle in whatever she needed to do to get her life on track and to get the relationship resolved. And they never dreamed that it would come to this level by any means.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to thank you so much. Our hearts, again, go out to you and your family. Horrific.

Up next, an exclusive interview with actress McKenzie Phillips. We`ll talk about Michael Jackson.



MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: This is it. I mean this is really it. This is the final -- this is the final curtain call.

JERMAINE JACKSON, BROTHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: My brother, the legendary king of pop, Michael Jackson, passed away --

M. JACKSON: I`ll be performing the songs my fans want to hear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Michael Jackson. There`s not going to be another Michael Jackson, ever, ever.

M. JACKSON: I love you so much, really, from the bottom of my heart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you, Michael. We all love you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was arguably the biggest star in the world; many say bigger than Elvis, bigger than the Beatles. But was Michael Jackson`s meteoric rise to superstardom ultimately his downfall?

Dr. Conrad Murray admits giving Michael Jackson Propofol, but do celebrities always get what they want?


DON BERRIGAN, FORMER PUBLICIST, THE JACKSON 5: I think this doctor is being railroaded and he may have made some misjudgments, but you can`t deal with the guy like Michael who`s this big a star when he becomes so powerful. These -- in general, these kind of folks will not listen to advice. They`re going to do it their way and it could kill them, if you`re not careful.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, during the police interrogation tape played in court, Dr. Murray claims that Jackson told him other doctors even allowed him to self-administer his milk, i.e., Propofol. Check this out.


DR. CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: He said to me that the doctor allowed him to infuse it himself and I refused the opportunity. He asked me, "Why would you not let me push it? I love to push it. It makes me feel great."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, prosecution is saying do not blame the victim here. That Michael Jackson is the victim, but the defense says Jackson wanted these drugs. So, where do we draw the line? Where do we draw the line between, for example, being a private doctor for a celebrity and being an employee of the celebrity, which is how the prosecution says Dr. Murray behaved.

We`ve got a very special guest here on ISSUES this evening. Actress and author, Mackenzie Phillips -- and just delighted to have her here -- the former star of the popular sitcom "One Day at a Time", which aired on CBS for almost a decade. Mackenzie is also the daughter of "The Mamas and The Papas" singer John Phillips. And Mackenzie has already written this incredible memoir, "High on Arrival" in which she documents her battle with addiction and it`s recommended reading for everyone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mackenzie, what happens when you`re dealing with a celebrity and you`ve got drugs and you`ve got a history of drug dependency?

PHILLIPS: I`ll tell you there`s a lot of different things that go with this. First of all, the celebrity is in this sort of glorified position. The doctor is sort of under -- depending on the type of doctor - - sort of under the spell of this famous patient.

Now, I certainly doctor-shopped my way through Los Angeles and New York City when I was in my active addiction and this goes back many years. We used to call them rock docs, rock `n` roll doctors, who would just prescribe to famous people. And you know, you would go in and get a shot or whatever, so this is not a surprise to me that this exists. It probably is to a lot of people watching this across the country. Maybe not so much anymore because of this Dr. Murray trial, but it`s a very difficult position to put a doctor in.

And as we`ve heard so many doctors say, like Dr. Drew says, "I am not friends with my patients. I may care for my patients. I don`t say `I love you like` he`s saying about Michael Jackson, you know."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he completely lost all boundaries when it came to his relationship with his famous patient and was acting like a friend. But really, does a friend give somebody else Propofol to sleep when they`ve got insomnia? I don`t think that`s what a friend does. If I had a friend with severe insomnia, I wouldn`t give them Propofol.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Dr. Murray claims he gave Michael Jackson Propofol because Michael Jackson begged for it. But what if he had just said no? We shouldn`t give you Propofol for insomnia, I`m not going to do it. Several of the people around Jackson in his past said that`s exactly what they did. They said no. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he asking for the Propofol?

SUSAN ESSIEN ETOK, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FRIEND: He did. Except at the time, I didn`t know what it was and what he asked for was Diprivan and I didn`t know what it was.



CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S NURSE: I told Michael, I said, "Michael, you don`t want this medication. You don`t want it. It is not safe." He said, "No, my doctor assured me it`s safe."



DEEPAK CHOPRA, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: In hindsight, I recognized that he was hinting at Propofol, but yes, once or twice I even told him because I discovered that he was using multiple prescriptions. The only way I discovered that was he asked me to write a prescription for him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The bottom line is why did Dr. Murray say yes when others had said no?

PHILLIPS: Well, I mean, you have to look at the paycheck. I think it has -- I feel awful saying this because I`m not in the courtroom. I`m not a lawyer. I`m not a doctor. But I`m an addict in recovery. And I just have a feeling that it has something to do with finances.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you have shared your story about how you, if I may ask you, did you ever doctor shop?

PHILLIPS: I absolutely doctor shopped and I got a message on Twitter yesterday about one of my former doctors and I hadn`t seen him in years. The man was getting ready to go on trial in the deaths of six people and was found dead in his home for overprescribing. I mean I would go to this man and every 13 days, I would get 240 hydrocodone pills. Every 13 days, yes.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that was your only doctor? Or did you have multiple?

PHILLIPS: I had other doctors as well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, you knew how to work the system.

PHILLIPS: I did and I`m so glad that the system is changing. Because the system is changing, especially in California because if people are in active addiction and they know how to work it, they will continue to work it and they may end up dead. And I`m just one of the lucky ones that survived.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I know this independently as a recovery alcoholic with 16 years of sobriety, and most of my friends are sober people and we all share stories. Alcohol was my substance of choice, but I have friends who are drug addicts. And they all talk about doctor-shopping --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- and how they worked the system and all you have to do was change the amount when you go from doctor to doctor, and your insurance will still cover it and yada, yada, yada, they got a whole -- they got a game plan.

PHILLIPS: And a lot of people will go and they`ll say well, this doctor, I`m going to give my insurance. This doctor, I`m going to pay cash. I`m not going to put my prescriptions through insurance in this pharmacy. I mean it`s a whole mindset of manipulation and lies.

PHILLIPS: Now, Mackenzie, you were on VH1`s "Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew" last year. On the show, Mackenzie experienced more than her fair share of drama involving famous roommates including country singer, Mindy McCreedy.


PHILLIPS: Mindy are you faking it? She`s not faking this. She`s having a seizure.

Nurse, right now. Somebody, dear god. Nurse.


PHILLIPS: Mindy`s having a seizure.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think people are still shocked at how crazy things can get when you`re around somebody who has, has had substance abuse problems in the past and look at this. Look at this drama. What happened there?

PHILLIPS: You know what? When I went into Celebrity Rehab and this was season three. We had just finished season five, so it`s been several years. I was two years clean and so, I was around all these other people who were going through withdrawals and all this crazy stuff. And I was in the room with Mindy and we were laughing. It was bedtime. And she said something and then she went -- and I thought she was playing with me. And I started saying, Mindy`s dead. I thought she was messing with me and she was in a full on seizure. It was so scary. Even watching it now just makes me cry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is so sad and our hearts go out to her. And I hope she`s just fine right now and doing great --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- but it just shows you how in one second, one second -- boom. That relates to this case because everything went down so quickly. And a doctor is supposed to know what to do and he didn`t take the right action.

PHILLIPS: Well, I thought she was joking. And then within 15 seconds, I realized something was wrong. I jumped up and started screaming for a nurse. That`s what you do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mackenzie you are fabulous.

PHILLIPS: So are you. I enjoy you. Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s so great to talk to you. Thank you for staying sober and talking about sobriety and we need to shine a spotlight on this entire issue.

More Michael Jackson on the other side; was the infamous Pepsi commercial accident the beginning of Michael Jackson`s difficulties with drugs? A forensic pathologist tackles that question in our blog. Ok, you can get behind the scenes information from the Conrad Murray trial. Check it out,


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you aren`t just seeing double. Meet Jackie and Molly Singer and Jackie`s daughters, J2 and M2. Two sets of identical twins with one mission, to educate the world about diabetes.

It all started when one of the younger twins who was diabetic was uninvited to a birthday party in the fourth grade.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her mama told her diabetics were a hassle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surprised by that ignorance, the seniors created the Diabetic Angels Organization. Through speaking and a Web site, the women try to educate people about diabetes.

JACKIE SINGER, FOUNDER, DIABETIC ANGELS: What that meant was that you were the angel to a diabetic. They would understand what it was like, what their experiences were like.

JACLYN HAMMEL, DIABETIC: When I was first diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes, I felt like the only person in the world that was diagnosed with this kind of disease. It was so great to see these people, their information and learn from them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Diabetic Angels say that they have reached thousands of people since they started in 1999 and now, they`re adding music to their fight. A portion of the proceeds from their group called MJ2 funds diabetes research.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Michael Jackson savable when Dr. Murray found him? Is that what you`re asking me?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounds like he had substance abuse problems and you`re providing this environment where drugs are readily available. That is definitely a foreseeable complication.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely, when you give Propofol, you have to always assess the sedation level and you do not leave a patient unmonitored. It`s like leaving a baby that`s sleeping on your kitchen counter top.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Extreme is when this is just something that we just would never expect to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In either scenario Conrad Murray played a direct role in causing Michael Jackson`s death.

Why would I talk on the phone? I would wake Mr. Jackson up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would it be strange for Dr. Murray to call you in the event of an emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Mr. Jackson`s dying you wouldn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It makes logical sense to call 911. He doesn`t have any of the appropriate equipment. Any help. He needs to get help. You call 911 first because he obviously -- waiting didn`t work.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police sources are telling TMZ Conrad Murray, the doctor, did himself in when he decided to grant that two-hour interview with Los Angeles cops two days after Michael Jackson`s death. Let`s listen to some of that caught on audio.


MURRAY: He said -- I do have some milk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. About what time was this?

MURRAY: He said, please, please, give me some milk today so I can sleep because (INAUDIBLE) --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hot milk or warm?

MURRAY: This is just a medicine.


MURRAY: If you`re familiar with --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the medicine?

MURRAY: It`s called Propofol.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you hear that? Cops don`t even know at that point what Propofol is. They even asked him, he wanted milk, cold milk or hot milk? They wouldn`t have known any of this if Dr. Conrad Murray hadn`t sat down with them and told them everything he did, including giving Propofol to Michael Jackson night after night after night.

Then they went home and they did some research and they realized you shouldn`t give Propofol for insomnia. It`s only supposed to be used in surgical settings.

And says police sources have told them this, "Smart people who are arrogant think they can talk to cops and make a problem go away. But it doesn`t work that way."

Do you agree, Mike Brooks, that he dug himself in deeper by talking to cops?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT: Well, if you -- at the time, Jane, it was two days after this happened. It was an interview, not an interrogation, because they were conducting a death investigation. You heard the two investigators because Conrad Murray was talking about milk -- warm milk, cold milk -- they didn`t know what he was talking until he talked -- said it was Propofol.

They didn`t know what they had here until they went back and they interviewed everyone else and then they went and they found these bags that Conrad Murray told them were up in a cabinet in the closet and then they found all of this now evidence, Jane.

But you know, they were just conducting a death investigation, but Conrad Murray had Ed Chernoff, one of his attorneys, there with him. And there were so many, so many inconsistencies in this statement. That coupled with the statements from everyone else, law enforcement started to put one and one together, Jane, and then that`s when they decided that it could be a homicide.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact, they told TMZ, police sources that they figured about 30 percent of the time Dr. Murray was lying to them when he was talking to them.

I want to go out to the phone lines. Shannon, Pennsylvania, your question or thought, Shannon.

SHANNON, PENNSYLVANIA (via telephone): Jane?


SHANNON: Can you hear me? Hi, how are you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes I can. Good, your question or thought.

SHANNON: My question is this. Is it even possible and/or probable that Dr. Murray could have changed out the tubing and the saline bag above the Y-connecter? Do you know what I mean?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I could tell you this. Yes, it`s an excellent question. A lot of evidence is missing, especially a crucial tube that went from the saline bag that had a Propofol bottle in it allegedly, all the way down to Michael Jackson, perhaps.

So, it`s going to be very, very difficult to figure out how exactly Michael Jackson died because we`re talking about medical mumbo jumbo and there`s confusion there. In confusion, there is reasonable doubt quite often.

So let`s not assume this is a slam dunk for the prosecution. The defense case is just getting started. Again, we`ve got to stay on top of this blog of ours. It`s so exciting. I`m going to weigh in later today and check out the HLN blog. Ok? You`ll find out what my colleagues are doing and what they`re saying. And it`s fun. It`s a whole community. Check it out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Many on the island including ourselves found out that this is being built in the southern part of the area in a coastal town because we saw it on your show. We live here. We didn`t even know this was going on. We already started our investigations and we`re just appalled at what we have found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are in contact with others on the island to start an investigation on how they got the permits.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Most people living in Puerto Rico didn`t know about a foreign company`s plans to build a massive laboratory monkey-breeding facility on their island until we broke the story right here on ISSUES.

Now I warn you, you might find this video somewhat disturbing but it`s important to bear witness and this is just a taste of what goes on. These are nowhere near the worst images of experimentation on laboratory animals. The company we`re talking about captures monkeys in the wild, ships the terrified animals across the world, breeds them in captivity and then sells them for painful experiments like the ones you are seeing here from a different facility.

These are sentient beings. These are our closest relatives. Luckily the people of Puerto Rico rose up and they said no, we do not want this here. And they have been able to stop construction of this facility.

I want to go straight out to Senator Melinda Romero who is a member of the Puerto Rican Senate who spearheaded the move to stop this facility. First of all, what would you like to say about your victory in the appeals court, Senator?

SEN. MELINDA ROMERO, PUERTO RICAN SENATE: Thank you, Jane. First of all, I want to say that we`re extremely happy that this has been for the moment has been paralyzed and that the construction cannot take place any longer at least for the next few months. And we will continue our struggle to eliminate the possibility that they could continue their construction here in Puerto Rico and bring the monkeys to Puerto Rico.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Lindsay Rajt -- Lindsay Rajt who is with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Is this a sign that the world is changing when it comes to the treatment of laboratory animals?

LINDSAY RAJT, PETA: Absolutely. You know, this company thought that they could sneak something by the local residents. They tried to avoid having a public hearing about the facility. But local people were absolutely outraged by their horrendously cruel plan to kidnap 4,000 monkeys from their homes, their families; dump them in cages into Puerto Rico and then to sell them to the highest bidder whether that be a laboratory in the United States or in Europe.

And you know, thousands of people wrote in from all over the world opposed to this. So I think we`re really seeing the tide of public opinion changing as people learn more about these cruel practices.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, we`ve made attempts to get in touch with the company and they are invited on our show any time. In fact, I would love to ask them a few questions.

Senator Romero, what would you like to see in terms of Puerto Rico`s role in advancing medicine and how would you like to see that play out?

ROMERA: Well, Jane, for the past few years what I have been trying to convince my fellow senators and also the governor of Puerto Rico is that Puerto Rico looking for more incentives to promote other different alternatives to animal testing is the that way we should be going. Everybody has looked at it in a positive way. The governor even has signed now a bill to promote incentives for those companies that come to Puerto Rico and establish themselves as centers for alternatives to animal testing just like other institutions have across the world in order to eliminate all these practices -- horrific practices of experimenting on animals and developing the alternatives.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, senator. Want to learn more? Go to


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nancy Grace, "Dancing with the Stars", you are taking it by storm; knocking it out of the park week after week. How are you dealing with this pressure psychologically and physically?

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: I don`t know that I would say taking it by storm. I don`t know that I would go that far.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s face it, Nancy. You are known as a tough lady, a prosecutor. To bring out a different side of your personality in front of the entire world, is it liberating or is it kind of scary?

GRACE: Once that music starts, it`s like a panic sets in. I can`t really describe it. And I don`t think of anything except that step and I try to think of the next step so I don`t mess it up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The courage that you`re showing -- it`s terrifying to dance in front of the entire world and you`re doing it. I love you. I think you guys are going to take it. I`m predicting that you will win "Dancing with the Stars".