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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Witness: Murray Made Egregious Errors; Judge Revokes Lindsay Lohan`s Probation; Where is Baby Lisa; Michael Jackson Death Trial; Exotic Animals Gunned Down in Ohio
Aired October 19, 2011 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.
The prosecution`s final witness, a world renowned anesthesiologist still on the stand. Right after court I will have complete analysis and also the very latest on Lindsay Lohan being cuffed, but now let`s go back into court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The breathing of the patient?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The failure to continuously monitor and have available the blood pressure, pulse oxymetry (ph) and heart monitors to maintain constant vigilant monitoring?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The failure to call 911 immediately?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The failure to chart and document at the outset of the procedure?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is both egregious and unconscionable?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The failure to maintain written informed consent, again both egregious and unconscionable?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The failure to document throughout the course of sedation, again egregious and unconscionable?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the failure to disclose to both the paramedics and UCLA the use of Propofol and the facts surrounding what Dr. Murray claimed to be a witness to arrest?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when I total those up I come up with 17 egregious violations, four of which are also unethical and unconscionable, is that accurate? Is that accurate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you described at the outset of your testimony that your use of the term "egregious" equates to that individual deviation from the standard of care being expected and/or likely to result in a catastrophic outcome, namely injury or death to the patient, Michael Jackson, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you agree that each one of these 17 individual violations, individually were likely and should have been expected to result in injury or death to Michael Jackson?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in your mind was that completely foreseeable risk?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you to assume the same facts that you`ve analyzed from the evidence. Let`s assume Conrad Murray gave this polypharmacy of drugs to a dehydrated, exhausted patient who may or may not have fasted. And let`s assume Conrad Murray gave 25 milligrams of Propofol and walked out of the room.
And let`s just assume, for the sake of the hypothetical, that Michael Jackson was then either -- either ingested Lorazepam and/or ingested Propofol. Would it still your opinion that Conrad Murray is directly responsible for the death of Michael Jackson, based on his at least 17 egregious failures in the standard of care and his abandonment of Michael Jackson?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And would those risks that a patient could consume Propofol and/or Lorazepam when abandoned, would those risks be, in your opinion, foreseeable, requiring the doctor to not abandon such a patient?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Shafer, you spoke about the fundamental importance and the trust inherent in a doctor/patient relationship. And I want to ask you as it relates to the standard of care in this case and the summary of the violations of the standard of care that you provided us. If you could put this into perspective as to what it is that Conrad Murray did to Michael Jackson and how it fundamentally violated the doctor/patient relationship.
SHAFER: I`d be happy to. The doctor/patient relationship, I believe, goes back to the dawn of civilization. I was in Egypt a year and a half ago, and on -- on stones dating back thousands of years, you can actually see carved medical instruments that are recognizable today.
So this relationship is a hallowed relationship. Doctors are permitted to know the most private details of a person`s body. Doctors are permitted to know the most private and personal details of a person`s life. Doctors are permitted to give very powerful drugs, drugs that might harm a patient or might kill a patient. Doctors are permitted to use knives and cut into a patient`s body to remove a cancer or to repair an organ, or to replace a knee. Doctors are allowed to do these things because of a hallowed relationship between the doctor and the patient.
And if I may, I would just like to give three observations of this. Doctors are associated with something called the Hippocratic Oath, dated back to 500 years B.C. And to quote from it, "In every house where I come, I will enter only for the good of my patients," because at the core of the doctor/patient relationship is that you put the patient first. That is the cornerstone of this hallowed relationship. It is because you put the doctor -- it is because you put the patient first that you are entrusted with surgery, with dangerous drugs, with intimate knowledge of the patient.
Quoting from the Declaration of Geneva, a more modern document, "The health and life of my patient will be my first consideration." That is at the core of the doctor/patient relationship.
And finally I have to quote Columbia University Medical Center, four words, "We put patients first."
When Dr. Murray agreed to treat insomnia with Propofol, he put Dr. Murray first, not Michael Jackson. When he showed up every night with bottles of Propofol and bags of saline, he was not putting Michael Jackson first. He was putting Dr. Murray first. And in the emergency room at UCLA Medical Center, when he misrepresented the type of arrest that it had been, and withheld information about the drugs that had been given, he was not putting the patient first. He was putting Conrad Murray first. This is the fundamental violation. The patient comes first. That did not happen here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us know for purposes of your adjournment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Conrad Murray continuously and repeatedly violate these fundamental tenets of the doctor/patient relationship?
SHAFER: Yes. Every night. These tenets were violated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, your honor.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight Lindsay Lohan cuffed and taken out of court by police. An angry judge says she`s had enough of Lohan blowing off her community service.
Meanwhile, Lindsay`s dad joins us here on ISSUES again tonight to weigh in on how his daughter looked today and to tell us why he`s so worried about her.
And shocking new developments in the case of a beautiful missing baby girl. An army of investigators in special gear arrive at the home with a warrant. Are cops suspicious of the mother`s inconsistent story? What really happened the night little Lisa disappeared from the family home?
Plus an explosive video played in court by prosecutors, trying to show how Dr. Conrad Murray broke every rule in the book. Will this force Michael Jackson`s doctor to take the stand?
And an uproar and controversy over how cops in Ohio shoot to kill a slew of exotic animals let loose from a private home. Why didn`t they use tranquilizers instead of live ammo? What were they thinking? We`re taking your calls.
ISSUES starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I`m not taking this as a joke. This is my life.
STEPHANIE SAUTNER, JUDGE: Probation, as you know, as the prosecutor knows, and has always been my view is a gift, and there`s something called looking a gift horse in the mouth.
MICHAEL LOHAN, LINDSAY`S FATHER: Do I know my daughter? I used to know my daughter. Do I know her now? I don`t understand how she thinks.
L. LOHAN: I`ve learned from my experiences. I take responsibility for my actions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How`s it going? Lindsay, how you doing?
SAUTNER: I am revoking her probation pending a hearing. I am also setting bail at $100,000. Here, November 2, people have your ducks lined up.
L. LOHAN: It`s my career. It`s what I`ve worked for my entire life.
M. LOHAN: She needs to get help. It`s obvious -- obvious that there`s severe addiction problems.
SAUTNER: So her failure to show up nine times at the downtown women`s center for scheduled appointments, that is reaching a turning point in your maturity?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight Lindsay Lohan cuffed and carted away. A fed- up judge revokes her probation.
Lindsay has faced judges many times, but this is the very first time we have seen the starlet handcuffed in court with the cameras rolling. Bail set at hundred grand. LiLo bailed out right away. She has to be back in court November 2.
Today the angry judge -- and I mean angry -- put Lindsay on morgue duty. Will that finally scare La Lohan straight?
The judge today furious because the actress was fired from her community service job at a downtown L.A. women`s center. Lindsay blew off nine -- count them, nine -- appointments, and when she showed up, she only stayed an hour or so. The judge slammed LiLo. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAUTNER: What I said, and I was really clear, is that she needed to get off the stick, start doing that community service, because I wasn`t going to hear one year from April 22 that she had no time because of work. That, if she got on a movie -- I mean, she is supposed to be an actress, from what I hear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SAUTNER: I don`t know how much acting work she`s done or is doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s supposed to be an actress.
Straight out to TMZ news manager Mike Walters. Mike, what was the biggest bombshell out of court today?
MIKE WALTERS, TMZ NEWS MANAGER: Well, Jane, Lindsay is in big trouble. And when I was listening to the hearing, I think the biggest thing that came out was, remember the court ordered her to be at this psychiatrist`s office once a week. She had to be there in person once a week.
The second thing was she had to go to the downtown women`s center, be there for four hours at a time and not disrupt the normal programming. Well, two things. One, she was fired from the women`s center, like you said. And two, she went to Paris. She went to Milan. She went to New York. She went to L.A. She went all over the world instead of is going to see the psychiatrist.
Now what`s interesting is going to be, at this hearing on November 2, whether or not she can explain her way out of the fact that she decided to call and even convince the psychiatrist and the probation department, which is crazy to me, to back her up on it, that it`s OK if she didn`t follow the judge`s orders.
You guys just saw the judge. Jane, you saw it. This judge is not messing around. Lindsay is not going to get off on a technicality here. She is not going to get off with another one of those -- OK, fine. She messed up. We`re going to wait until next time to see if it gets worse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mike Walters, I respect what you`re saying. But OK, you say Lindsay is going to jail, but it seems that time after time -- briefly Kim Serafin, senior editor, "InTouch Weekly" -- they threaten her and nothing ever happens. I mean, she was out in hours. OK. Cuffs, so what?
KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "INTOUCH WEEKLY": Yes, I mean we`ve seen it before. Like we`ve had this exact same conversation before, and everyone says she`s in real trouble this time.
And then what happens? She seems to skate off and then get away with everything. So why would she really take this seriously when she does seem to get away with everything? And when you have this new law that went into effect here in California on October 1 that could even lessen the chance of her serving jail time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Because of overcrowding. They`re actually saying that only hardened criminals, pretty much, are going to be in the slammer.
Now I want to go to our very special guest, Michael Lohan, Lindsay`s dad. Now, we spoke with him last night. He was very concerned about his daughter.
Let`s recap and review. Lindsay showed up today in an off-white dress and a white scarf. She had her hair in a pony tail, sky-high gold stilettos. Now, no "F-U" manicure at this point, but some said she looked a little disheveled, that her makeup was very heavy, haphazard. She had dark brown streaks on her face. Some said her face was swollen.
Michael, I can tell you that E! News is claiming that her blush was covering up plastic surgery bruising. Have you spoken to your daughter since she was locked up by the judge, and what do you make of her appearance, Michael, as her dad?
M. LOHAN: Well, a couple of things. No. 1, I did try to call her. Her phone goes right to voice mail. She must be getting inundated with phone calls.
What do I think about her appearance? She certainly doesn`t look like the Lindsay that she used to be. I think we all know that. She had her teeth fixed, thank God. But what caused her teeth to be fixed needs to be fixed itself. I truly believe that what the judge did she had to do. And I think the only way -- I do believe that, from what the judge said, she`s not going to get jail time, and if she does, I don`t think it`s proper. I think Lindsay needs to be in a very, very, very intensive hard-core program like down here at G&G Holistic that will finally get her right. She`s got...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean program? What`s "program"?
M. LOHAN: She`s got to be in a rehab. Jane, you wrote a book on this. You wrote a book. And it`s so funny we`re coming off on the tail of this whole thing where Conrad Murray and how doctors write prescriptions so readily, and they`re not -- they`re not held accountable for what they do. You know, Lindsay never used...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think she`s on prescription drugs?
M. LOHAN: Prescription and illicit. Both. I don`t -- I`m not going to deny the fact that I think that she`s smoking something that destroyed her teeth. I don`t think that the reason why she missed a lot of her appointments was because she was traveling.
Look, I was there myself years ago. When I worked on Wall Street, and I was out partying the night before, I didn`t want to go to work. I`d make up an excuse. That`s why she doesn`t go to community service. She`s not kidding me. And I really think that my ex-wife holds the key. She`s got to turn this around.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There had been -- you mentioned it, Michael -- shocking photos of her teeth. Let`s look at them. Lindsay was photographed on the red carpet. Reporters thought her teeth looked chipped and brown and decaying.
I want to bring in Dr. Natalie Strand. Hypothetically speaking, what could cause this?
DR. NATALIE STRAND, USC-KECK SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: There are several things that could cause the decaying teeth if someone is addicted to drugs. Certainly, methamphetamine is one that`s notorious for causing tooth decay. Pain killers can cause tooth decay, and alcoholism. Certainly, when these are combined, the combination of having a very dry mouth, a craving for sweets, and also for having poor dental hygiene lead to addicts often having really bad dental problems.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, we can`t say for sure. I don`t know. I have no idea. Maybe she has a bad tooth face. We invite Lindsay or her incredible attorney, Shawn Chapman Holley, on any time to get their side.
Last night Lindsay did tweet, quote, "I just want it to be known that, just because I was not followed and photographed during the times I`ve gone to community service does not mean that I wasn`t following my obligations to the court." Actually, you did blow off nine -- nine -- scheduled appointments.
I want to bring in a famed attorney, Yale Gallanter, who has represented Charlie Sheen as well as O.J. Simpson.
Yale, Lindsay has got a great attorney. What has to happen for Lindsay to realize she`s got to obey the law?
YALE GALLANTER, ATTORNEY: Well, I agree with you. I think Ms. Holley is a fantastic attorney. She`s done a great job. But she needs to lay the law down to her client, and she needs to say to her client, "Listen, this is not a game. You`ve got to comply with these court orders, because this judge is not messing around."
Listen, Lindsay`s case would have been over a year ago if she just did it. Just go in, do the community service, do what the judge tells you to do, get the probation terminated and get on with your life and put this behind you. This is the longest DUI in American history.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But she doesn`t care, I don`t think, because she knows she`s never going to do hard jail time because of the overcrowding situation. So it`s unbelievable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAUTNER: If jail meant something in the state of California now, maybe I`d put her in jail but come on. You know, is anybody doing any time on their jail sentences?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yale Gallanter, famed attorney, there`s a new law that says if you`re a nonviolent felon without a criminal past you don`t even go to state prison any more. You go to county jail, where there`s overcrowding and so they release you early. I mean, she doesn`t really -- she can thumb her nose at the system, because they`re not going to put her in jail. No way, no how.
GALLANTER: Well, I agree with you. They`re not going to put her in jail for a long time, but this judge has other options. I mean, if I`m the judge in this case, I`m ordering Lindsay to do those four hours a day, report to my courtroom at 4 or 5 p.m. every day and tell me how she did, because that`s the only way you`re going to get a handle on this. This girl has got to do what this judge says or this DUI case is going to be going on for a long, long time to come.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And so what? I mean, Michael Lohan, I think that, with all due respect, you know, I think you make an excellent point, but Michael Lohan, do you think your daughter cares? She...
M. LOHAN: No, no, I don`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There were those who saw her rolling her eyes when she was handcuffed, like, and then she mouthed, "Get me out of here." Go ahead.
M. LOHAN: Jane -- Jane, let me just say this. No. 1, I want to address a few things. The dentist that just spoke before Natalie, No. 1, if you`re taking a prescription medication, it would affect all your teeth not just your two front teeth. OK, that`s from smoking a pipe with meth or crack. No. 1.
No. 2, with regard to Sean Chapman Holley, counsel, you`re absolutely right. She`s a good attorney, but Shawn has said to me on a number of occasions, Michael, she`s my client. I have to do what`s best for her and keep her out of jail. As far as overcrowding, Lindsay...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael, Michael, hold on. Hold on. You`re saying that you think that -- just spell it out. You`re talking about the teeth. What do you think she`s doing?
M. LOHAN: She`s smoking either crack or meth. One or the other. I`m not going to -- I`m not going to shade it. You can`t dance with the devil and expect to go home with Jesus. This kid is messing around with the wrong people.
Charlie Sheen is doing the right thing now finally. He got rid of his assistant. Lindsay has her assistant around her that just turns a blind eye. Charlie has people that actually are around him that said they`ll call the cops if he does something wrong.
Lindsay has to get extricate the excrement in her life. The people around her, have to get rid of them. She`s got to get rid of them, and she`s got to get into a program. She`s a drug addict. This kid needs help. If she wants help, she`s got to get it. She`s -- the judge has to put her in a long-term program.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
M. LOHAN: And I`ve looked all over the country for the right one. And G&G is the place she`s got to go. I`ve been there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to go. One second, to Kim Serafin, first of all, Lindsay and Shawn Chapman Holley both invited on our show any time. I have no idea what Lindsay is doing, but the big danger, if you believe her father, isn`t that she`s going to go jail. It`s that she could die.
SERAFIN: Yes, but again, as Shawn Holley pointed out in court, she gets a glowing review from her probation officer. She`s doing things like completing the shoplifting course. She`s doing the psychological counseling. So she`s kind of walking that fine line where, technically, she does have until April to finish this community service work. So, again, it is that fine line.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Lohan, we have ten seconds. Is your daughter gaming the system?
M. LOHAN: She`s beating the system. And she`s not going to be working any more, and she`s going to wind up in a morgue, if someone doesn`t do something to get her help.
She`s a blessed kid. I love her to death. I`m going out there. I`m going to get rid of all the people I can out of her life. I`m going to speak to this judge, the probation department, and to everyone else I have to, to try to get her the help she needs.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, fantastic panel.
Up next, missing baby Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re looking for a baby. We can`t wait until she gets home.
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER OF BABY LISA: We need her home. I can`t be without her.
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN ALL-PLATFORM JOURNALIST: As soon as this search warrant was issued Tuesday night police showed up here two or three cars at a time barring access from the family into Baby Lisa`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are we focusing on Debbie? I mean Debbie is the mother, yes, but we should be focusing on her. This is who is missing, you know. Until we find her, you know, nobody is going to know.
BRADLEY: The only thing I can think of is maybe somebody wanted baby and she -- I don`t know what it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, things aren`t adding up and so you just -- you want to believe that there`s not a crazy person out there who`s taking babies, but you also want to believe the mom too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Shocking new developments in the hunt for adorable Baby Lisa, the war between Lisa`s parents and the local cops amping up tonight. Police have executed a full-blown search warrant at the missing baby`s house. We`re talking moon suits, CSI; Lisa`s parents, and this is a really significant fact, are banned from this property as you see the cops go in there in their white outfits.
Is all of this a reaction, perhaps, to the finger-pointing at the cops by the family`s hot shot attorney?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE TACOPINA, ATTORNEY FOR BABY LISA`S PARENT: People during the investigation, members of law enforcement -- obviously, some members not all and certainly I`m not going to start identifying which members or which group -- but I think in the questioning of these two people have been a little insensitive. Do your investigation and start right here. Start right here. It`s absolutely normal for them to start right here. But don`t come to a conclusion before you have evidence and then try to look for the evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the cops say they have not interviewed Deborah or Jeremy since October 8th because they are not cooperating. That`s 11 days ago. Not to mention the new information Deborah spilled out about her possible alcohol induced blackout because she had probably more than five drinks plus anti-anxiety meds the night Baby Lisa went missing and then she changed her timeline.
So, what are cops looking for inside that house? Give me a holler, 1- 877-JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to Jim Spellman, CNN reporter on the scene live right outside the home; what have cops found if anything, do you know?
SPELLMAN: Police tell us so far they haven`t found anything significant but this search is still going on. They are in about the ninth hour Jane, of this investigation. It started last night with cars pulling up to stop the family from entering the home. That`s part of the condition of this search.
This morning we saw the CSI crews and other investigators go into this home and they`ve been at it ever since intensely searching inside the home as well as in the backyard using shovels and rakes around the shed. Not sure what they are searching for. And they felt they haven`t found anything significant but they`ve been at it intensely all day, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Deborah Bradley admitted she chug-a-lugged at least five glasses of wine and took anti-anxiety meds which would make it the equivalent of having ten drinks. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you drinking that night?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much?
BRADLEY: Enough to be drunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you were drunk?
A lot of people are going to say Deborah you were drunk that night. Is there any chance you did anything that hurt your daughter that you`re just not telling us?
BRADLEY: No, no, no. And if I thought there was a chance I`d say it. No. No. I don`t think that alcohol changes a person enough to do something like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
Matt Semino, attorney and "Huffington Post" contributor, this alcohol issue puts a very odd spin on the ball in terms of her behavior. It makes her look suspicious, perhaps but maybe she just doesn`t remember and is inconsistent because she was so drunk and messed up.
MATT SEMINO, ATTORNEY: Jane, you raise a very, very important point. I mean I think it leads to greater suspicion of the mother and it also just questions what was she doing? Why wasn`t she looking after her daughter? Also questions of her responsibility towards her daughter.
But yet at the same time you have to understand, these parents, they are missing their child. So their stories may be inconsistent. They may be flustered. And you know, they may not have a willingness to cooperate with the police because, you know, they are afraid.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, they keep saying they are afraid of being arrested. The mother keeps telling people that cops told her she failed a polygraph. But the cops, Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, they are not saying she`s a suspect, they are not saying they are about to arrest her. She seems to be pointing the finger at herself and I just don`t understand why.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well because she really doesn`t know what happened because she blacked out. And, you know, they are back there today with a search warrant, Jane, it`s one with no-consent (ph) search. We heard from our CNN correspondent who is there on the scene that they got there last night. They kept lights on that whole backyard while he was doing a walk around of the house in the dark so they came back today with local and the FBI evidence response team.
And I`m wondering, Jane -- if Jim is still there -- did you see any stakes at all, any flags in the backyard that would indicate maybe any use of ground penetrating radar at all, Jim?
SPELLMAN: We haven`t seen anything exactly like -- we haven`t seen anything exactly like that but we`ve seen them using ladders on the inside of the house and on the outside of the house and going back and forth with all sorts of equipment. We haven`t seen them take out anything that obviously looks like evidence but we don`t have the perfect vantage point on the backyard to see exactly what`s happening on the ground level, but shovels, rakes and at it for hours after hours in this area behind the shed in the back -- Mike, Jane.
BROOKS: And, Jane, I can tell you where they`ve got this --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim, why are they wearing the suits? Because they are wearing regular shoes; I don`t think they`ve got booties on the shoes. So Mike, why do you think they`re wearing those white suits?
BROOKS: Well, it`s hard to see. It looks like I saw one agent who`s going into the house did have something on his feet. But those are Tyvek suits. Those are what you use if you`re going to work a crime scene. So you don`t want -- because you want to take evidence away. You don`t want to leave any possible trace evidence there that could be from your own clothes, any kind of hairs, fibers, those kind of things Jane.
I didn`t see any shoes there, but when you go inside you might put them on so you`re not bringing it inside from outside. You put them on once you get right inside the door. That`s sometimes what we do or what I used to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, all of this is happening after police say and they came out and said this that they have been trying to talk to Baby Lisa`s parents and basically the last time -- this is according to cops -- the last time that the parents sat down unrestricted to answer questions that we needed answered was October 8th.
Now there was a point during that interview that she, the mother of the missing baby, became uncomfortable and ended the conversation. They talked to detectives about tips that have come in since the 8th but it`s always on their terms. So Matt Semino, here`s a mother crying hysterically saying she wants to do everything she can to find her child and yet she will not sit down and talk to the cops. What do you make of that?
SEMINO: Absolutely Jane. I mean that is highly suspect. And the fact that they had to execute this warrant for the search of the house without the parents` consent this time, shows that there`s a deterioration in the relationship between the police and the parents and that there is some suspicion there.
That`s really the problem here is that the parents, they are missing their child. They should be cooperating with law enforcement. They should be doing everything they can to help find this child and not try, to you know, legally posture here with the police. They should be using their lawyer to cooperate with the police, from vied as much information as possible to find Baby Lisa.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, everybody is saying hey, why are they talking to the media even though they have allegedly stopped talking to cops? The cops said they tried to talk to them once and they said, "No, we can`t talk to them because we have to do a TV interview." Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRADLEY: She`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family. She means everything to my boys. And we need her home. I can`t be without her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jim Spellman, they have not allowed the parents back into the house. Do we know where these parents are? Are they hanging down the block or have they disappeared?
SPELLMAN: They`ve been staying with relatives a couple of miles away. Also Jane, don`t forget. Not only have they not interviewed the mother but the two boys that in the home, six and eight years old, if the mother was blacked out they could be a key source of information. Police would love to interview those boys again as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anna, Indiana -- we`re going to the phones -- Anna, Indiana your question or thought, Anna?
ANNA, INDIANA (via telephone): I`d like to know who was watching Baby Lisa and the boys while she was gone to the store and how come she has not been arrested for child neglect?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? Mike Brooks, that would be a great way to put pressure on the family given that she has admitted that she was rip-roaring drunk watching three kids, the infant that disappeared, the little baby as well as the 6-year-old and an 8year-old boy. Why haven`t they arrested her on child endangerment?
BROOKS: Why arrest her right now? You know, there are some cases -- in the Casey Anthony case -- where I thought maybe they might have arrested someone too early. Let them monitor what they are doing, who they are talking to -- all these kinds of things that might lead them to where the little girl is.
Sometimes, you know, you want to keep your cards close to your vest and not go out there and just lock someone up right away because then they`re going to lawyer up and they`re not going to talk to you at all about anything.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And the other thing that`s kind of disturbing is that the parents, who by the way have not been called suspects by the cops or persons of interest, they keep saying hey the cops should be looking for the kids. Well people in the neighborhood say there`s helicopters everywhere, there`s armies of National Guard, people are looking for these children.
And they thought they may have had a lead on the baby because there were two women who looked suspicious with a child. It turn out that`s a false report. That is not that description of a possible Baby Lisa at a Kansas City deli with two women. Not happening. Ok. That is not a valid tip.
So, you got to wonder what are cops going to do? They are going take this information that they`ve gathered from the home. They`re going to will analyze it. They`ve also got this whole issue of the three cell phones that supposedly were taken along with the baby which a lot of people think are strange. Why would somebody come in and take the baby and three cell phones and nothing else?
We`re going stay on top of this story and up next, the Michael Jackson death trial.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Virtually none of the safe guards for sedation were in place when Propofol --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The worse disasters occur in sedation and they occur when people cut corners.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like the facts in this case demonstrate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice. Justice. Justice. We want justice. We want justice. Justice for Michael.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before you treat and it`s an emergency, you call for help. Because you`re going to need it and you`re going to need it now.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: The prosecution presented its final witness in the Michael Jackson death trial, powerful testimony today by Dr. Steven Shafer, one of the world`s leading experts on anesthesiology and he was "en fuego" today this anesthesiologist.
He narrated for jurors a movie, actually, on the proper use of Propofol. And he said it should be used only in a hospital setting not in a bedroom as it was by Dr. Conrad Murray. He took us in detail, step by step through the proper procedures and basically in doing so took apart Dr. Conrad Murray`s treatment of Michael Jackson.
And he pointed out it`s so imperative to use high-tech operating room equipment to monitor this stuff. Dr. Conrad Murray didn`t have any of that stuff.
Ok. We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Dr. Natalie Strand, you are also an anesthesiologist. Compare all the high-tech equipment we saw in that movie today to the equipment that Dr. Conrad Murray used on Michael Jackson?
DR. NATALIE STRAND, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: Well, you know, first of all, Jane, it`s hard to compare it because he didn`t really have any of that equipment or even a sloppy version of it, you know. For his infusion, we`re thinking where he spiked the bottle directly and then had it running without any sort of monitor. I`m so happy, we`ve been saying that monitoring, monitoring this whole trial. You know, every doctor has been crying that they haven`t been monitoring.
But today was a nice illustration of what that actually means. It`s the heart rate, it`s the hearth rhythm, it`s the blood pressure, it`s the oxygen levels, it`s the carbon dioxide levels, it`s the respiratory rate, the breathing pattern. All of those things that were illustrated in those videos, that`s standard of care. That`s something every single anesthesiologist monitors in the operating room.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Kim Serafin because we were talking about Lindsay Lohan. In fact, you were going to leave and I said no you have to stay because you`re making a great point about Dr. Conrad Murray.
KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, Lindsay`s judge today referenced a famous case -- we all know she was obviously talking about the Conrad Murray case. Talking about this new law that went into effect on October 1st in California that said non-violent felons are now going to -- instead of state prison -- they`re going to county jail.
So there was that report from TMZ last week saying potentially you would go to county jail, Conrad Murray, if he was convicted and potentially could even serve house arrest. He might do part of it in the county jail but then he potentially sentenced to house arrest. So, all of this for six months house arrest -- yes months in county jail, essentially.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Matt Semino, attorney and Huffington Post contributor, Michael Jackson fans are saying hey we have basically dismantled his reputation that he had just gotten back in the wake of the child molestation trial for which he was acquitted on all counts. He`d just finally become sort of a household name again, everybody`s playing his music and now this?
We have to hear about him slurring his words or hear him actually slurring his words. We`re hearing about bed pans and urine and all of this terrible stuff. Is it worth it? Even if he`s convicted he`ll probably do some time at home.
SEMINO: Right. I mean I think there`s this complete sense of outrage over how there won`t be any justice served for Michael Jackson. Even if Dr. Conrad Murray is convicted, the fact that he would sit at home in his leisure and serve house arrest, I mean, how does that equate to potentially and allegedly causing the death of Michael Jackson, their beloved star.
You know, at the same time this case and the testimony today really showed how egregious the deviation from the standard of care that Dr. Murray gave towards Michael Jackson really was. I think Dr. Shafer`s testimony was extremely powerful.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Guess what. This trial has now given Propofol a bad name. Patients who actually need anesthesia desperately are starting to think this is some kind of voodoo drug that`s supposed to be avoided at all costs.
Listen to what Dr. Shaffer said on the stand today. It`s extraordinary.
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DR. STEVEN SHAFFER, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: I am asked everyday I`m in the operating room. I tell patients what I`m going to do and I`m asked the question, "Are you going to give me the drug that killed Michael Jackson." I get that question daily.
This is a fear that patients do not need to have. Propofol is an outstanding drug.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, all I can say is I do not want to ever have surgery without having Propofol because that would hurt a lot. I mean that`s why it`s a surgical knockout drug. It has to just be used correctly, people.
Carlos New York, your question or thought.
CARLOS, NEW YORK (via telephone): Yes, my thought is about the Michael Jackson case. It`s more or less, it should be an open and shut case because it`s like here in New York City there was a case where a drug dealer got caught where everybody was buying his drug with his stamp and his name on it. And when they caught him he was sentenced ten years for every victim.
So, in other words, whether it was Dr. Murray, whoever, the person that supplied Michael Jackson with the drug that he died from --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Carlos, you`re making an excellent point. And Dr. Natalie it doesn`t matter if they are wearing a white coat the way you are, if, and you`re not -- you`re a great doctor -- but if a doctor is acting as a pusher then he should be treated just like a drug pusher.
No difference. No difference, people.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A bizarre story here and still a very dangerous situation. This is in eastern Ohio. Schools are closed and residents are being told to stay inside. Deputies armed with shotguns are hunting for wild animals that escaped from a farm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Public safety was my number one concern. I gave the order on the way here that if animals looked like they were going out they went down. We could not have animals running loose in this county.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is like not just a nightmare. It`s like Noah`s Ark, like wrecking, right here in Zanesville, Ohio.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, the carnage. About 45 exotic animals gunned down by cops in Ohio. Officials say the owner, Terry Thompson, set the animals free yesterday then shot and killed himself.
As of this afternoon, one monkey still unaccounted for. The final death toll: 18 tigers, nine lions, eight lionesses, eight bears, three mountain lions, two wolves and one baboon; all dead in less than 24 hours, all almost all of them shot dead by cops.
Joining me now Sheriff Matthew Lutz, the local sheriff. You`re not the one who collected these animals. He bears primary responsibility and he is dead. So I can`t ask him questions but a lot of people are upset about the carnage and they wonder why you issued the shoot to kill order because my understanding was that they hadn`t attacked any humans, sir.
SHERIFF MATTHEW LUTZ, MUSKINGUM COUNTY: Well, at the time of this incident, we had about an hour to an hour and half of good light. These animals were adult, aggressive animals that had been let out of pens. They had breached the fence area of the actual property that they belonged on. We could not let them get loose in our community. If this would have been middle of the day --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Were any of them shot while they were still on the property?
LUTZ: Yes, ma`am.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Were any of them shot after the tranquilizer darts arrived? Because I know there were tranquilizer darts that were rushed to the area. Why didn`t you use more of those, Sheriff, if I may ask?
LUTZ: Right. The tranquilizer darts arrived near dark or after dark. It was not a safe environment. We tried to use tranquilizer darts today this morning between 9:00 and 9:30 a.m. on an adult cat. The vet took a huge chance getting within 10 to 15 feet of that cat. When the dart hit the cat, the cat reacted, charged towards the vet and some very dense cover and then turned as it was running away to get loose. We then took that cat down.
We were not taking the chance of allowing these animals to get into our neighborhoods with our public.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well Sheriff, thank you for your time.
I am here with noted animal rescuer, Jane Garrison, your reaction to this.
JANE GARRISON, ANIMAL WELFARE EXPERT: Well, tranquilizers are used successfully every day around the world on large exotic dangerous animal. They tried it on one animal. And Jane, The majority of those animals who were killed, as you heard him say, they were still on the property. Reports show that many of those animals were standing, frightened in front of their opened cages. There`s no reason why they couldn`t have waited for more tranquilizers. Tranquilize those animals and got them safely into cages.
But the bigger problem is the fact that Ohio has the worst regulations when it comes to the keeping of exotic, dangerous animals for pets. Anyone can have a pet. You can go to a local flea market and buy a lion there and a tiger there. That needs to change
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That has got to change. More in a moment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The ASCPA, HSUS and PETA are all urging the governor of Ohio to issue an emergency order banning exotic pets.
Jane Garrison, your thoughts.
GARRISON: It`s about time. Since 2003 there`ve been 22 injuries and deaths to people from exotic animals as pets in Ohio alone. And these animals they also live miserable lives. They are denied access to proper food, vet care, clean water. They are in cramped cages. It`s miserable for the animals and is a threat to public safety. People need to contact the governor of Ohio and tell him to finally get with the picture and ban exotic animals as pets.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is an outrage. These animals did not have to die. They did not have to live this way. We are going to start having as a culture to look at the inherent rights of these creatures.
Thank you for joining me. "NANCY GRACE" next.