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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Police Search Baby Lisa`s Home

Aired October 20, 2011 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, police search the home of baby Lisa`s parents for a whopping 17 hours. Investigators arrive with shovels and x-ray equipment, then leave with bags of potential evidence. Were they looking for a baby? What did they find?

Another outrageous twist in the Lindsay Lohan saga. After being hauled out of court in cuffs yesterday, Lohan`s already in trouble again, showing up almost an hour late for her community service at the morgue. So they turned her away! Why, after being scolded and threatened by the judge, would she not show up on time?

And shock waves after Michael Lohan claimed here on ISSUES last night that he`s convinced his daughter is back on drugs.

Also, in its final moments, the prosecution throws hand grenades at the defense claim that Michael Jackson popped eight Lorazepam pills, essentially killing himself. Fans outraged by this blame-the-victim strategy. But Murray supporters say just wait for the defense`s case, which is about to begin. We`re taking your calls.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, live in Los Angeles, right outside the courthouse where the Michael Jackson death trial is taking place.

Today, another doctor tells the jury there is no way Jackson self- injected Propofol. More on that in just a couple of minutes, but first, our top story, finding baby Lisa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The truth will come out. I know it will, eventually. It always does.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re looking for a baby and we can`t wait until she gets home.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, LISA`S MOTHER: We need her home. I can`t -- I can`t be without her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as this police warrant was issued Tuesday night, police showed up here, two or three cars at a time, barring access from the family into baby Lisa`s home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are we focusing on Debby? Debby is the mother, but we should be focusing on her. This is who is missing. Until we find her, nobody`s going to know.

BRADLEY: The only thing I can think of is, you know, maybe somebody wanted a baby and she -- I hope that`s what it is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, things aren`t adding up, and so you just -- you want to believe that there`s not a crazy out there that`s taking babies, but you also want to believe the mom, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, as a play-by-play of the night baby Lisa went missing surfaces, cops wrap up a 17-hour marathon search of the adorable 11-month-old`s house. Cops brought in the heavy machinery to search baby Lisa`s house, including a bomb and arson squad and an x-ray machine to scan the walls and the pipes.

So did this massive search uncover any clues? And what were they looking for? Listen to this from ABC`s "GMA."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL STANTON, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: They`re looking for a body or they`re looking for trace evidence, and as am I. I still am looking at them with some suspicion. I have theories where they could have done it, and I have theories where they could not have done it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police still have not named any suspects, but information is coming out of the woodwork about the night the child disappeared and about the couple. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was definitely just an attention hound. It was like, I couldn`t have other friends around because she would just do things to try to cause a scene everywhere. She would go out with us. We would go out to the clubs. She was drinking, yes, she drank.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sounds like Deborah was known for knocking back a few drinks. And she`s admitted she was taking anti-anxiety meds, reportedly, and might have had an alcohol-induced blackout on the night her daughter went missing. Could she have forgotten what happened? Could she have forgotten key details? Does she remember anything? Are cops any closer to finding previous Lisa?

I am taking your calls. What`s your theory on this case? Call me: 1- 877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to Jim Spellman, CNN reporter on the ground, live in the neighborhood. What can you tell us about what the cops have uncovered during their 17 hours in the home, armed with a search warrant and a whole bunch of high-tech equipment, Jim?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jane, they were out here until 1 in the morning last night. They searched in the house. They searched behind the house. They even had ladders going up and looking into the gutters on the roof of the house. We know they brought in x-ray equipment. That was part of the bomb squad unit that was here.

Police won`t tell us what they found, exactly, and they tell us that they still don`t have any breakthroughs.

We were able to get a close-up view of the backyard and see where they cleared away a wide area behind the garage. We can see all of the debris, the vines and such. They were in the back, in two big piles on either side of it now. Still no word on what they found exactly there, but we do know from police, still no breakthroughs. And obviously, they still haven`t found baby Lisa, the most important part of this story -- Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is an amazing article in "People" magazine, "Gone Without a Trace," and there`s some shocking new details in this article. Could this family have had money problems?

Now, we are hearing through the "People" magazine article, Jeremy picked up a side job on the very night that Lisa went missing, and he did not call home to tell Deborah, his live-in partner, and the mother of his child, that he was going to be late, because their cell phone was turned off for nonpayment.

So I am wondering, Steve Helling, staff writer for "People" magazine, A, was this couple struggling financially, and is that why the mother of the missing girl was reportedly on anti-anxiety meds? But if so, why is she going out and buying a box of wine, Steve?

STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: This is not a rich couple. This is not a couple with a lot of money. And they did have some struggles financially. There`s no question about that. Whether or not that was the cause for her being on antidepressants, nobody really knows. Only she and her doctor would know that.

But what we do know is that the day of the -- this happened, yes, she went out and she was seen on surveillance getting a box of wine. Baby Lisa was nowhere to be seen. We`re not sure if baby Lisa was being watched by daddy at that moment, because he would have been working, or somebody else. We just don`t know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I think the timeline is absolutely fascinating and reveals a lot. During this "People" magazine interview, Deborah Bradley walked "People" magazine through the timeline of the events that night. So put your Sherlock Holmes hat on right now.

4:30 p.m., Deborah goes to the store to buy wine, and by the way, some baby food and baby wipes.

5:30 p.m., Jeremy, the dad, goes to work. Deborah makes dinner.

6:40 p.m., Deborah puts little Lisa, the missing child, to bed. Now, then she begins to drink with neighbors outside on the stoop, drink wine. She admits having probably more than five glasses of wine. And if you add anti-anxiety meds, that supercharges it to something like ten glasses of wine.

10:30 p.m., the neighbor goes home. Deborah goes to bed.

3:45, Jeremy, the dad, comes home from work, finds the window open and the lights on and the door unlocked. And he wakes up his -- the mother of his child, his partner, and says, "Hey, what`s going on here? What the hell`s going on here?" And she jumps out of bed, and they realize that baby Lisa is missing.

And then at 4 a.m., Jeremy calls cops to report Lisa missing.

Detective Kevin Boehm, Kansas City police coordinator for Crimestoppers, what strikes me about this is that, A, do we have any knowledge of when anybody outside the family last saw this child who is now missing, this adorable, then 10-, now 11-month-old child.

We have the family`s word that she put the child to sleep at 10 -- at 6:40, but did anybody else see the child? When`s the last time anybody else, aside from this mother and this father, saw this little child?

KEVIN BOEHM, KANSAS CITY POLICE: Well, I`m really not able to comment on the case right now, because it is an ongoing investigation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what`s your theory then, detective? I mean, let me put it this way, Deborah and Jeremy told "People" magazine that the police have told them they have a theory about what really happened that night.

Quote, "The couple say police presented a theory that Lisa had accidentally been harmed and that Bradley panicked and then tried to cover it up."

So, obviously, the cops, Steve Helling, according to your article in "People" magazine, have a theory that maybe she was drunk, something accidentally happened to the child, and she covered it up.

Now, I`m not saying that and the cops aren`t saying that. It`s the mother of the missing child who is saying that. Listen to this from ABC`s "GMA," and then I`ll get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRADLEY: During an interrogation, we found this -- they showed me burnt clothes. They showed me a Doppler thing with pings from -- that my cell phones, and I`m led to believe at this point that none of that was real. I hope the burnt clothes weren`t real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Steve Helling, "People" magazine, the mother is telling us that cops have a theory that the child was harmed. She was drunk. She doesn`t remember half of what happened that night. Your thoughts?

HELLING: Well, you know, that certainly -- you know, the police are going to investigate any scenarios that they can come up with. And that certainly would make sense, that it stands to reason that, if she was so drunk that she doesn`t remember what she was doing that night, that perhaps there was some accident that happened. So, of course, responsible police work would be to check that out.

But, you know, the police aren`t really telling us everything that they`re doing right now. There`s a lot going on behind the scenes that should probably come out in the next few days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me tell you this. From what I`ve learned, police went in there with bomb-sniffing equipment. When I say "there," they went into the home from which the child disappeared, and often you use bomb-sniffing equipment to see through solid objects like walls and floors.

So, obviously, Jim Spellman, you`re there right outside the house. You have all these guys in white suits. Likely, they are doing luminal tests, checking for blood. They are likely doing tests where they are trying to see if anything is buried beneath the floors, buried in the walls. They were going through the backyard with rakes. They are likely looking for -- are they likely looking for a child`s body, Jim Spellman?

SPELLMAN: Well, we, again, we don`t know exactly what they were looking for, but that x-ray equipment is very important. We -- we observed at least dozens of trips in and out of the house, and we weren`t here every moment. So probably hundreds of times they went in with this.

And we do know that that`s what we know that equipment is often used for, to look inside walls, to look inside pipes, things like that.

But they also did spend a lot of attention in this viney area in the backyard behind a shed. We know they took the shovels used in that with them when they left. It looked like they were bagging those up. Perhaps those shovels themselves would be analyzed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What are they looking for? We`re taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. A child is missing! The mother says she was drinking and doesn`t remember all the details. What are they looking for? What`s your theory? More baby Lisa when we come back.

We`re going to talk to a neighbor in Kansas City, Missouri, live, who is right there in the middle of this unfolding drama. We want to find baby Lisa. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you want to tell that person? Other than dropping them off, what do you want to tell them about Lisa?

BRADLEY: She`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family. And she means everything to my boys, and we -- we need her home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRADLEY: We came home and I was -- he said, "She`s not in her crib," and I said, "What do you mean she`s not in her crib?" And I just knew, you know, something was really wrong.

And we ran around the house. And we were screaming for her, and she was nowhere. And then I said, "Call 911, call 911," and he said, "Where are the phones?" And they weren`t on the counter where I left them. They were gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The mother of the missing child crying on television, but cops say that they haven`t had a really useful sit-down interview with them in days and days and days. That the last time that they really talked to them and asked them the questions that they want to ask them was back on October 8!

Why aren`t the parents talking to cops? And they have lawyered up. But they are not considered suspects. Although cops spent 17 hours going through their home with a fine-tooth comb after obtaining a search warrant, a search warrant. We don`t know what the basis of that search warrant was, but you can`t just go into a home unless you have good reason and you outline your theory of the case.

Now, what about their side? Well, during a "People" magazine interview, Deborah, the mother of the missing 10-, now 11-month-old child, gave her theory of what happened that night.

Here`s a quote. "What I think is that someone was watching us, and they saw Jeremy`s van was not there. And that just happened to be that night the window was open."

So the question is, does this family have any proof at all of a stalker? Well, I want to go back to Detective Kevin Boehm, Kansas City Police coordinator for Crimestoppers.

I understand you`ve gotten hundreds and hundreds of tips. Tell us about it.

BOEHM: Well, that`s correct. When the abduction originally took place, we`re basically the repository for that type of information, and to date, we`ve received over 400 tips to our hotline, related to baby Lisa`s disappearance.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do you tell if it`s a good tip or a bad tip?

BOEHM: Well, that`s not really our job. We take in the information, and we forward it on to the detectives that are actually on the ground working the case. They will prioritize that information.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, who are the people who are calling? Who are the people who are calling? Just citizens? They just pick up the phone and they say, "Hey." We know that there was a tip -- that there was a child spotted at a delicatessen a hundred miles or so outside of Kansas City with two women who left, apparently, without finishing their meals. And then, on that basis alone, people said, "That`s very suspicious, but the cops tracked them down, and eh, that`s not a good tip.

So there are a lot of tips coming in, but do they really have anything to do with the case? I think that`s essentially the issue.

I want to go to Kim in Iowa. We`re now going to your phone calls. Kim, Iowa, your question or thought?

CALLER: Yes. I wanted to ask a question, you know, who the mother was drinking with? I mean, I guess they were -- it was her brother-in-law, maybe, that she was drinking with? But it sounds like there was neighbors that she was drinking with. So I guess I`m just wondering, you know, if they`ve questioned anybody...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, you raise a good point. Now, she is buying wine here, buying a box of wine with her brother, who I believe is about 20 years old.

Now, apparently she doesn`t have a license, so he drove her to the store and drove her back and just left her there, is my understanding. And the person she was drinking with was actually her next-door neighbor.

I want to bring in an exclusive interview that we have tonight with a woman who lives in the neighborhood, Stephanie Stevens.

First of all, Stephanie, I know this has got to be very difficult for everybody in the neighborhood. Thank you for joining us. What is the mood in the neighborhood tonight?

STEPHANIE STEVENS, NEIGHBOR: Mostly people are in shock, that something like this would happen in this area, because it`s a relatively quiet area.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And do you fear, maybe for your own children? We don`t know what happened. We don`t know who`s responsible, so are people keeping their kids indoors?

STEVENS: No, they`re not. The kids are still out running around, but I think they`re a little bit more vigilant about their surroundings and what`s going on and they`re paying more attention to the people in the neighborhood.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you know -- do you know Deborah Bradley, the mother of the missing child, or do you have any connection at all with this family?

STEVENS: No, I just live up the street from them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And did you see the cops going into the house? Have you been there, watching what`s going on?

STEVENS: No, because I work, so I didn`t really -- I just came home to it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what can you tell us about that? What can you tell us -- what are your thoughts on this? What are your feelings about this entire case? What do you think happened?

STEVENS: I don`t want to judge at this point, because everything I`ve heard and I`ve been hearing is all speculation on everybody`s part. And until the facts come out, I don`t want to comment on that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, on the other side, more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE TACOPINA, ATTORNEY FOR LISA`S PARENTS: These two people standing behind me are two parents who are grieving every day, every minute, every second for the loss of their daughter. Hopefully she will come back to them. And hopefully she`ll be healthy, and they`ll be able to move on with their life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: People have been asking, wow, you know, what went on that night? Police say they don`t have any suspects, but at this point, we know that the dad was working. There is surveillance video of him working on a second job at a Starbucks, and he comes home at 3:45 in the morning.

So, my question is, well, at this point, can`t we rule Dad out? Doesn`t he have an alibi? Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEREMY IRWIN, FATHER: When I came home from work, the front door was unlocked, most of the lights were on in the house, and the window in the front was open. Obviously, all very unusual. And then I started checking on the kids, checked on the boys first. And then we checked on her, and that`s when we realized she was gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jack Trumarco, former FBI agent, people are kind of grouping the mom and dad together, but if the dad`s got an alibi, because he was working, why should we do that, Jack?

JACK TRUMARCO, FORMER FBI AGENT (via phone): Well, Jane, speaking from an FBI or the authority`s point of view, when the FBI`s involved in the case of a missing child, we always polygraph the mother and the father, the last person to have been with the child, and the person who reports the disappearance to the police, because we know that about one third of the time, the case is going to focus right there.

Now, we polygraphed mom and dad to eliminate them from suspicion, but sometimes, just like Susan Smith, they don`t pass. And then we have an investigative focus. Not to -- not to forego any other hot leads, but when someone fails the polygraph test, they`ve got to be your No. 1 suspect.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, very well put. And guess what? The mother in this case has come out and said that the police told her she failed the polygraph. The police aren`t saying that. The police aren`t calling her a suspect. She is the one telling reporters that she was told by cops she failed a polygraph. And it was specifically about where`s the child or do you know where the child is?

Now again, she was drinking heavily that night and may have very well been in a blackout, because she can`t remember whether she even checked on the child, this adorable child, at 10:30 at night.

Meantime, let`s look at other possibilities. Right outside baby Lisa`s house, a very disturbing and very weird sign. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPELLMAN: This is something that, even in our previous walks through this public area that leads behind baby Lisa`s house, I hadn`t even noticed this until right now.

This is a tunnel, sort of a drainage tunnel. You can see that this is a place where people come from time to time. There`s graffiti here. You can see this sort of graffiti that sometimes associated with kind of a satanic symbol, a pentagram.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Private investigator Scott Ross, what is a pentagram?

SCOTT ROSS, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: The pentagon is just a symbol that`s typically associated with satanic worship. I don`t know exactly or specifically what it means, but can I go back to the polygraph for a quick second?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Quickly.

ROSS: Interestingly, just because the police told her she failed doesn`t mean that she failed. Typically law enforcement is known to misrepresent or lie to potential suspects.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good point.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL LOHAN, FATHER OF LINDSAY LOHAN: Do I know my daughter? I used to know my daughter. Do I know her now? I don`t understand how she thinks.

LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I have learned from my experiences. I take responsibility for my actions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lindsay, how you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am revoking her probation pending a hearing. I am also setting bail at $100,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 20 minutes to 9:00, over 40 minutes late, and she was turned away. Even though somebody in her camp is saying that she`s here working, she is not here working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You heard it right. After being cuffed -- cuffed -- and ordered to jail, and ordered to do community service at the county morgue, Lindsay Lohan is a no-show. That`s right. She didn`t bother to get to the morgue on time, and after arriving 40 minutes late, she was turned away. Unbelievable -- when is Lindsay Lohan going to learn to take this seriously? Will she ever?

You`d think that only one day after a judge revokes her probation for not doing community service that she would manage to arrive at her court- ordered community service on time. But, no. Granted, working at the morgue is no picnic, but it`s not supposed to be a picnic.

Here`s what Lindsay will be doing if she is allowed to return back to the morgue anytime soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED WINDER ASSISTANT CHIEF CORONER, L.A. COUNTY: She`ll be doing janitorial work, vacuuming, cleaning floors, restrooms, basic janitorial- type work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sure Lindsay`s going to love that. Lindsay`s camp says she was late because she didn`t know what door to go through and she blamed confusion caused by the media waiting for her arrival.

Stop blaming us for everything, Lindsay. Lindsay took to Twitter saying, "It won`t happen again, now I know where to go." But the funny thing is Lindsay has already been to the morgue once before. She had to do volunteer work there after her second DUI conviction.

What do you think? Honest mistake or is she thumbing her nose again at authority? All right. Call me, 1-877-Jvm-Says.

Tonight: an ISSUES exclusive with Los Angeles County assistant coroner, Ed Winter. Ed, thank you so much for joining us. Please lay out exactly what happened, the timeline that occurred this morning that resulted in her being turned away. Ed?

WINTER (via telephone): She had an appointment, it was told that she had to be here at 8:00. At 20 minutes to 8:00, we received a phone call from her assistant who said they were 10 minutes away. By 8:00, she did not show and by 8:20, she had still not arrived.

We notified the volunteer center that she had failed to meet her appointment and at 8:40, she pulled in and she was told that she had to leave. She would not be accepted today and that she would have to get in contact with the volunteer center.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what`s interesting is that she didn`t say she was 40 minutes late. I believe she said in her statement that she was 20 minutes late. So, she`s not even telling the truth about that, Ed?

WINTER: No. She -- we were advised she was going to be here in ten minutes, which would have placed her at 10 minutes to 8:00. She failed to show at the 8:00. She failed to show at 8:20. And she pulled into the back parking lot at 8:40.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is unbelievable. Even in her statement -- and it occurs to me, Kim Serafin, senior editor "In Touch Weekly", you were sitting here with me yesterday when we were talking about how the judge cuffed her and yelled at her, and said, "Get real. This is real. This is not a game or a play or a movie." And here she is again, not showing up, the day after, and lying about how late she was in being turned away and saying she didn`t know the way in, even though she`s been there before -- Kim.

KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes, I mean we`ve seen this before, you know. You would think that after what happened yesterday, she would be on her best behavior and want to do extra work. I mean, she only has to do the 16 hours before November 2nd. But 16 hours is a lot. And you would think she`d want to get started on it right away.

It seemed from her tweets that she was really gung ho about it. She wanted to prove to everyone that everyone else was wrong and that she really was serious about getting straight. It could have been an accidental mistake. But it just, according to what we`re hearing from Ed Winter, it sounds like she should have known where she was going.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m working here in Los Angeles, ok? At the L.A. Times building, the courthouse is behind me. I`m not going to show up late and say, I forgot where the building was, because I`ve been here before.

She has been to that building before. She has to know where the building is. Unless, unless, unless, unless -- ok, we heard some the tough words from Lindsay Lohan`s dad, Michael Lohan, right here last night on ISSUES. It made a lot of news. We`re going to play it for you again

Listen to Michael Lohan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOHAN: She`s smoking either crack or meth, one of the other. I`m not going to shade it. You can`t dance with the devil and expect to go home with Jesus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, the dad, ok, the father of Lindsay Lohan is saying that he believes that she is on drugs. And yet -- by the way, we reached out to Lindsay`s attorney, Shawn Chapman Holley, and have not gotten a response. We would love to have her on and we would love to have Lindsay herself on.

I don`t know whether she`s on drugs or not, I have no knowledge of that, we are just telling you what her father says. Her father believes she`s doing some serious drugs again.

Why isn`t there a drug test that goes on, Mark Nejame, criminal defense attorney out of Orlando? Why did not we hear yesterday in court as the judge is dressing her down, "Hey, we tested you and here`s what it shows, that you either are or are not doing drugs?" Because a lot of people -- and I`m a recovering alcoholic -- would say it all boils down to that. That`s the key issue.

MARK NEJAME, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s a standard condition of any probation, especially when there`s aspects of drug usage or addiction. And it`s absolutely clear that she`s an addict. I mean there`s a lot definitions for an addict, but one of them is continuing the same behavior despite previous negative consequences, you continue the same behavior. And that surely defines her.

Drug treatment and drug evaluation should be an ongoing condition of probation with her. Why wasn`t it mentioned? It sure should have been.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It sure should have been. And for her own sake, we know, and I could tell you, as a person who once an addict, always an addict, she`s been to rehab five times, so she`s an addict.

NEJAME: Yes without question.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I don`t care whether she`s using or not, there are certain hallmarks of addiction and one of them is that you`re defiant. One of them is that you think the rules don`t apply to you. One of them is that you become outraged and feel very persecuted when you`re asked to obey the rules. These are the hallmarks.

And Kim Serafin, we`ve seen it with many, many big stars who have addiction problems. They really become offended if you tell them that, "Hey, the rules apply to you." And I can`t even imagine what Lindsay, in her mind, would be thinking, knowing once she got in that door, she would ultimately have to be cleaning out toilets.

SERAFIN: Yes. And I mean, we`ve sort of seen this before, as this saga has gone on for the past few years that it seems like she`s often blamed the media attention. And look, when you see the kind of media attention that she does get at court or wherever she goes, people follow her like they follow no one else. So you can certainly sympathize with that.

But there`s a certain point when you have to stop blaming the media and just kind of take responsibility and understand that the media is going to be there wherever you show up, so maybe try to get there a little bit earlier, because the media probably will disrupt your entrance into wherever you`re going.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we all know also, Lindsay has become an expert in the art of the excuse. She is an actress, and a very good one. Let`s listen to Lindsay during a July 2010 hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. LOHAN: I`m not taking this as a joke. It`s my life. And it`s my career, and it`s something I`ve worked for my entire life. And, you know, I`ve learned from my experiences. I take responsibility for my actions. And I`ve tried to do the best I can in the past few weeks since I was here last.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that was quite a performance but then look closely, and we saw that Lindsay had "F-U" manicured on her fingernails. That was the very same day. And then yesterday after her lawyer pleaded with the judge on her behalf that she`s sincere. Lindsay could be seen -- look carefully -- rolling her eyes and saying, are you going to get me out of here?

So Mark Nejame, what`s it going to take for Lindsay to learn her lesson?

NEJAME: Well, that`s the quandary. The reality of it is you should not be putting addicts in prison. And the system is woefully inadequate to deal with not only Lindsay Lohan, but addicts, generally. The fact of the matter is she`s been in treatment five times and it hasn`t worked. You put her in jail all you`re dealing with is somebody who`s in an environment that`s not healthy and not going with proper treatment.

The best solution is to put her into a treatment facility, state-run, for as long as the probation would allow, until, in fact, she gets a clean bill of health. But if that`s not out there, then we`re probably going to continue to have this revolving door until she either hits her real bottom and gets clean or she dies.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she`s been to rehab five times already, I believe. So I don`t know if a sixth trip will help.

Lindsay, nobody`s out to get you. You`ve just got to obey the rules. That`s all there is to it. I don`t know what`s going to happen to you, but my heart goes out to you. I feel sorry for you.

Meantime, there was some other big news today out of the Casey Anthony world. Will we finally see Casey Anthony`s first public appearance since her release from jail? Her attorney was in court today, battling to seal that very bizarre video of Casey in full disguise at a deposition for her Zanny the nanny lawsuit. You remember, she was wearing a cap and sunglasses and oh, just a very bizarre outfit.

The attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez claims that sealing the video would qualify as special treatment and added that Casey likely wants to keep that video under wraps so she can make the maximum profit off her story when she finally decides to speak out.

This saga continues as the judge said, she is going to decide whether or not to the release the video, the first official appearance of Casey Anthony after her acquittal on murder charges within ten days. So as soon as we get that video, if it`s released, you`re going to see it right here.

All right, coming up: Michael Jackson, an exclusive interview.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re seeing this wild scene here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did he wait so long to call 911?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He loved Michael. Michael self-medicated. Hey, if you love Michael so much, why didn`t you go to his house and get him off drugs?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His patients will say the same things, his other friends, his family members; they`re all going to say the same thing. He`s a very caring, loving person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a godly man. He`s a man of love. I know him personally. He loved Michael.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They are in a prayer circle and they are praying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We pray for Conrad Murray right now, who is in the fight of his life. We pray God for even the judge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So here I am, I stand here to show my support to Dr. Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for helping Conrad. Thank you. I love you. Thank you very much. I love you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just can`t see him being the person that he`s being painted to be. I just can`t see that. That`s not the person that I know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you plead?

DR. CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: Your honor, I am an innocent man.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Total madness outside the courthouse here in L.A. every single day between Michael Jackson`s die-hard fans and supporters of Dr. Conrad Murray. Meantime, inside the courtroom, the prosecution`s star witness, Dr. Steven Shafer took apart piece by piece any claims that Michael Jackson swallowed Propofol, ingested Lorazepam in pill form, and/or injected Propofol into himself when Dr. Conrad Murray wasn`t looking. And this expert witness for the prosecution also demonstrated for jurors Dr. Murray`s crude Gerry-rigged IV system that he was using on the king of pop. It`s a shocker. Look at this.

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DR. STEVEN SHAFER, ANESTHESIOLOSTI: This is the injection port. This attaches to the IV catheter, in this case, just below the left knee. So this attaches to the catheter, and this is where the injection of drugs would be made.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Most damning, testimony that when Dr. Shafer, he described Jackson`s final seconds on earth, when Michael Jackson was no longer breathing and his heart had stopped and why so much Propofol was found in his system at the autopsy. Listen to this.

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SHAFER: And with the ending of circulation, Michael Jackson has died, but he`s died with the infusion running.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight: an ISSUES exclusive, Scott Ross, my dear friend and private eye to the stars. Scott Ross was part of the defense team for the Michael Jackson child molestation trial back in 2005, when Michael Jackson was found not guilty of child molestation. And that`s where Scott and I became friends, because I covered that case.

And Scott was also part of the team that got actor Robert Blake acquitted of murder. Two high-profile trials, two acquittals; you`ve got a great track record. And Scott`s also taking some of your calls. 1-877- JVM-SAYS.

All right, Scott, I found it interesting that you think that this case is stacked against Dr. Conrad Murray, stacked for the prosecution?

SCOTT ROSS, CELEBRITY PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: I think it`s completely stacked against him. First of all, one of the issues, the way I watch it, I watch it from an investigative standpoint. And from my perspective, you know, nobody`s addressed how did Michael Jackson become a drug addict? You know, they`ve agreed to -- Judge Pastor has agreed to allow Arnie Klein`s medical records in. Good luck cross-examining medical records, but they`re not going to allow Arnie Klein to come in.

And as you know, in Jackson, there was a series of drugs and drug bottles that were taken out of Michael Jackson`s home that were in other people`s names that were prescribed by Arnie Klein. Clearly, Michael had the pajama day episode that everybody remembers. But the point is that he has a drug problem. He`s had a drug problem for a very long time.

How did he get to that point where this quantity of drugs is being pumped into him to get him to go to sleep or to help him go to sleep? How come that`s not being brought into this trial as a background?

You know, again, the other day somebody mentioned his nanny, and the minute her name was brought up, everything was driven to a completely halt, because the judge had said, we can`t go into her, we can`t discuss anything about her.

But the LAPD interviewed her. The LAPD gained information from her. And any information gleaned from that testimony, from that interview from the nanny --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I assume you`re talking about Grace Rwaramba.

ROSS: Ok, I`m trying not to use her name.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, all right. Ok.

ROSS: But exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what about the whole theory that you shouldn`t blame the victim. Michael Jackson`s a victim here. It has nothing to do with what his background is. This is a doctor, who when you ask for Propofol, he should have said no.

ROSS: Right. And that has to do with the overall flavor of the case. The case is about negligence and gross negligence. The case isn`t about the quantity of drugs, it was whether or not the drugs were issued in a malicious -- clearly it was negligent, but does it rise to the level of criminal negligence? No. Not in my opinion. But clearly there`s an issue of the negligence of the doctor. That`s what this is about, not about the type of drug, not the quantity of drug, but the fact is that you`ve already started off with your patient, who`s a drug dealer -- I`m sorry -- drug addict; somebody who`s a known drug addict.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the family says that they don`t see him that way.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: About 45 exotic animals gunned down by cops in Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:L Two wolves, six black bears, two grizzly bear, nine male lions, eight lionesses, a baboon, three mountain lions and 18 Bengal tigers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tranquilizer darts arrived near dark or after dark. It was not a safe environment.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Escalating national outrage after nearly 50 exotic animals are gunned down in eastern Ohio. Authorities say they were released by their owner who then killed himself.

You`ll find what I`m about to show you disturbing. These are just some of the animals that were killed. Why did these animals have to die? We`re talking lions, bear, mountain lion, tigers, monkeys and more. Look at this carnage. Only six of the 56 animals` lives were spared and now they`re going through their own hell behind another set of bars.

Joining me Dave Salmoni, Animal Planet large predator expert and spokesperson for the show "Fatal Attractions"; you can catch all new episodes of the show starting November 11th. Dave thank you for joining us. Tranquilizer darts have been used effectively in the past on big cats. Was this a shoot first, ask questions later mentality?

DAVE SALMONI, LARGE PREDATOR EXPERT, ANIMAL PLANET: I think if you ask me it certainly was. I feel like there was very little value placed on these animals` lives. That being said, the guys making the decisions, you know, they don`t have the animal background in order to be understanding what is a lethal situation and what`s not a lethal situation. I felt like maybe they could have gotten an expert in animals there a lot quicker than they did. But, you know, it`s hard to look at a police officer whose job is to keep people safe and not animals safe and sort of throw stones at what he did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I like what you said. I think there is precious little consideration given to the life of the animal in many of these situations; it`s a cultural phenomenon.

Why has Ohio, according to reports, become a hotbed of exotic animal pet ownership? Check out this documentary about wild animals being kept as pets in Ohio; this, from the "Elephant in the Living Room". Listen for this.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like one of my own kids. That feeling is deep.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re in the heart of America. We have vipers here. We have baboons.

We have lions, tigers, everything and you would never think it is here in America but it is here and it is rampant and it`s running wild.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ohio has a problem. And now the government is saying -- the Ohio governor saying I`m trying to rectified it but he allowed an emergency order to expire that would have prevented this precise situation -- Dave.

SALMONI: Yes, I feel like that`s one thing that -- the laws are pretty difficult right now. I don`t think that -- the people who are making the laws have no idea what they`re doing. I feel like they need to start looking at animal people, getting them together and really putting in laws that will help the people that are trying to rescue animals. Take care of these animals because there are a lot animals that we have here in the United States, you saw from that documentary.

A lot of animals that need good people to take care of them but there is a lot of bad people. We saw those bad people and this guy, I would tell you, is a real bad person; this guy in Ohio that ended up obviously taking his own life.

We need to have laws that get rid of those people and really support the good people, the ones that are really taking care of our animals.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There needs to be a federal law that bans exotic pet ownership. That is my opinion. These animals cannot speak for themselves. We have to speak for them. Reach out to the government and tell them, we need a law.

More in a second with Dave Salmoni.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had animals outside that fenced area along the road that were trying to get loose. I had deputies that had to shoot animals with their side arms at close range. That`s how volatile this situation was.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was it a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality that guided this? Take a look at this very disturbing photo of some of the dead animals. Dave Salmoni from Animal Planet; the guy who had these exotic pets, he didn`t love animals as some people said. He loved to own them. There is a difference, isn`t there?

SALMONI: I think there is a big difference. I feel like anybody who is in the animal industry know that these type of outcomes happen when somebody has all these animals and probably not the financing and the backing or the know-how to take care of them properly. And I think this guy has a long record of having problems with animals and these animals, not taking good care of themselves or not being taken care of well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Something has to be done. Dave, thank you. It`s up to us.

END