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Murray`s Defense Begins Case; Where is Baby Lisa?

Aired October 24, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Good evening, I`m Jane Velez- Mitchell and right now we`re going to go back into the trial, where Michael Jackson`s former nurse, Cherilyn Lee, is being examined, direct examination by defense attorney Ed Chernoff. Let`s listen.

ED CHERNOFF, CONRAD MURRAY`S DEFENSE LAWYER: ... for Easter Sunday? Most doctors, most nurses don`t go to the house...

CHERILYN LEE, FORMER NURSE OF MICHAEL JACKSON: People that know me know that I will see them any day of the week if they need me.

CHERNOFF: Did he call you on Easter Sunday?

LEE: He had someone call me, yes.

CHERNOFF: And you went out immediately?

LEE: Yes.

CHERNOFF: All right. And on that -- on that day, April 12, 2009, can you tell us what his complaint was, when you came out to see him?

LEE: He said, his complaint was, "I have a problem sleeping, and all the natural remedies and everything you`re doing is not working. When I need sleep, I need to go to sleep right away."

CHERNOFF: Is this -- were you surprised to hear this?

LEE: Was I surprised to hear that? Well, a lot of people tell me they want to go to sleep right away. They don`t want to linger around for hours and hours. They want something to help them to sleep.

CHERNOFF: And what did you -- what was your response to that? To that comment?

LEE: When he we said that, I said, "Let`s maybe get you set up for some sleep studies," since all of the natural remedies that I had recommended was not working. I had already done lab work to test for testosterone levels. Because it`s been noted that men who have low testosterone levels can also have problems with insomnia.

I offered him a company that would come in to do the sleep study at his home instead of him going to a location. And I offered him tests to do neurotransmitter tests -- that was elective at his house -- to test for the amino acids to see if there was some imbalance on amino acid for sleep. And he said he didn`t have time -- didn`t have for all that.

CHERNOFF: He said, "No, I`m not going to do that"?

LEE: He didn`t have time for all that.

CHERNOFF: All right. And you came out a week later on the 19th, as well. April 19?

LEE: Yes.

CHERNOFF: And did he complain still about the inability to sleep?

LEE: Well, can I back up a tad bit?


LEE: When he had asked me Easter about -- and actually, he asked me about -- he wanted me to see that he had a hard time sleeping. He said, "I have a hard time sleeping. I want you to" -- that was in the evening. He said, "I want you to see that I don`t sleep well. So you can be here and watch me, and you`ll see that I don`t sleep well."

CHERNOFF: And this is on Easter Sunday or was this on the 19th?

LEE: Easter Sunday was the day -- no, it was the day before. I don`t remember.

CHERNOFF: All right. Well, let`s just say that it is around that time. Did you take him up on his offer? Did you offer to watch him sleep?

LEE: Yes, I did.

CHERNOFF: OK. Tell us how that -- that happened.

LEE: I arrived there one evening. It was -- it was late. And I said, "I`m going to watch you sleep. You want to try to be tired enough so that you can fall asleep, and I can watch you, instead of us sitting up talking and watching movies like we normally would do together."

And so he said, "OK."

So I went up to his room and -- and we talked for a few minutes. I made him some tea. He took another natural supplement. He said, "I want you to see that it isn`t working." And then I proceeded to watch him sleep. Watch him sleep.

CHERNOFF: Could you tell us what time you went up to his room?

LEE: Somewhere between 9, 10. I don`t know. It was late. It may have been 11 p.m. I`m not sure.

CHERNOFF: I`m sorry, I didn`t understand you.

LEE: It could have even been a little later. I`m not sure on an exact time.

CHERNOFF: OK. How long did you stay up in his room watching him?

LEE: I stayed there watching him until 3 in the morning. And he woke up around 3, and he said, "I told you. I can`t stay awake." I mean, "I can`t stay asleep." Excuse me.

CHERNOFF: Did you -- did you stay at his side during that period of time?

LEE: Pardon?

CHERNOFF: Did you stay at his side during that period of time?

LEE: I sat right across the bed across from him and watched him every second. I asked, "Are you sure you can sleep if I sit here and watch you?" I`ve said that before, but he said, "Sure, I can go to sleep."

CHERNOFF: Was -- was he hooked up to any kind of saline?

LEE: He did have an I.V. going, yes. He had an I.V. of vitamin C and the Meyers cocktail. And he had already his Sleepy Time Tea and some other natural supplements that I had given him so he could sleep.

CHERNOFF: All total, how long do you think he slept?

LEE: Well, actually in this particular instance, giving him everything, he actually slept five hours.

CHERNOFF: And then what happened?

LEE: And he woke up, and he said, "I told you, I could not sleep throughout the entire night." We did start a little early, because I remember it was a total of five hours he did sleep.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chernoff, at a con convenient time, let us know for the purposes of the adjournment.

CHERNOFF: Probably now, under the circumstances, because there`s a cross.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don`t want to interrupt you if you want to follow through with anything, or else you can take the adjournment. Whatever`s easier.

CHERNOFF: OK. Well, let me just get through this part, judge, please. Just five minutes.


CHERNOFF: I think. I think.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will stop at 4:10. Because there are logistical issues. So...


You sat at his bedside during period of time.

LEE: I sat at his bedside during this time.

CHERNOFF: And an I.V. was going?

LEE: Yes.

CHERNOFF: And you -- did you change at any point during that period of time change out the saline?

LEE: No. It was a very low dose of vitamin C saline, so I didn`t have to change anything.

CHERNOFF: OK. So one 1,000 milliliter bag of saline?

LEE: No, it was 250.

CHERNOFF: Two fifty?

LEE: I could check the bag. Because normally we would just do 150 to 250.

CHERNOFF: This stayed in the entire time that he slept?

LEE: Most definitely.

CHERNOFF: Where was the -- where was the catheter?

LEE: He had very, very small veins. And so it was always in his hand. And he would sit there and not move. And it was usually the outer surface of the hand.

CHERNOFF: How were his veins besides...

LEE: His veins are very, very small. Matter of fact, he made a little joke about it his self. And he said, "Doctors have always told me that it`s hard for them to get my veins. Because I have squiggly veins."

CHERNOFF: Was there any other problem with his veins? Did it seem to be problematic other than being squiggly and small?

LEE: No. I have a way of using something to put on the hand that warms the hand so the veins sort of dilate, so it makes it easy and it`s less painful for the client. So had no pain, and I use a very, very tiny butterfly, so he was fine.

CHERNOFF: In your medical records on the 19th of April, where you discuss this event, you say that the -- he requested you to stay the night to understand his pattern of sleeping for two to three hours, then waking up.

LEE: Yes.

CHERNOFF: All right. And prior to you staying the night, did he discuss any -- any desires he had to obtain medication?

LEE: No. Actually, all of that happened on Easter. So I`ve had to figure out dates. That was the date that the medication came up. And that was Easter.

CHERNOFF: OK. And what -- at some point when he woke up or when he said he couldn`t sleep, did he mention a medication?

LEE: On 4/12. April 12 of `09 is when he mentioned a medication.


LEE: And that was...

CHERNOFF: May I -- Let me stop you for just a second Ms. Lee, I`m sorry. Are you sure you`re not mixing up your dates? May I approach the witness?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there`s a question pending.

CHERNOFF: Could you be mixing up your dates? Could this be the 19th of April?

LEE: Yes.

OK. It`s 4:10, judge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. May I see counsel for just a moment?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The trial wrapping for the day, and guess who we have here on ISSUES to analyze it? The one and only, Jose Baez, lead defense attorney in the Casey Anthony case. Here with me exclusively to analyze the Michael Jackson death trial in just a moment. We`re going to take a very short break. Then we`re going to be back with an exclusive interview with the one and only Jose Baez. Stay right there.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me call the case of the people of California, plaintiff versus Conrad Robert Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are prepared and would ask to rest at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would still be considered abandonment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You preferred to shove it down his professional throat. You literally swallowed Propofol.

CHERNOFF: Let me understand that everything you said in the last two days was your opinion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Extraordinary things require extraordinary proof.

CHERNOFF: Dr. Murray is literally on trial for his life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the evidence in this case will show that Michael Jackson literally put his life in the hands of Conrad Murray.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A huge day in the Michael Jackson death trial. The prosecution rests now. It`s the defense turn to sway the jury.

Hi, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you from Los Angeles for every second of this trial.

With me tonight, a very special, exclusive guest, someone who knows all too well what it`s like to defend a client while the entire world is watching. He is perhaps the most famous practicing attorney on the planet. Millions watched as he walked Casey Anthony out of jail. Millions were riveted by his explosive strategies in the courtroom.


JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: She can be 13 years old, have her father`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in her mouth, and then go to school and play with the other kids as if nothing ever happened.

And that was to paint Casey Anthony as a slut, as a party girl.

Casey was raised to lie.

Depending on who`s asking the questions, whether it`s this laughing guy right here.

That`s insane. It`s bizarre. Something is just not right about that.

Your honor, the defense rests.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: People were shocked when Casey Anthony was acquitted of murder. Everyone but her lawyer, this guy here, famed defense attorney Jose Baez. Legal pundits said the odds were stacked against him, but he proved them wrong.

So who better to comment on the Michael Jackson death trial?

Just like the Casey Anthony case, this trial has become an absolute mob scene. Demonstrators on both sides flying in from all over the country, indeed, from around the world, lining the streets, causing complete pandemonium.

Jose Baez, thank you so much for joining us here on ISSUES. We are thrilled to have you for this exclusive interview. So here`s what I want to know.

BAEZ: Thank you having me Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is it like?

BAEZ: I`m sorry?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, here`s what I want to know. What`s it like to live on the front lines of a mega case like this? We want to know what it`s like on a personal level. The whole world watching in the courtroom and outside. That`s true in this case and in your case.

And also, another commonality is that, in this case and in your case, both the lead attorneys have to run this gauntlet past protesters and fans. What is that like on a personal level?

BAEZ: Well, you have to remember the task at hand. And you have to stay focus end block it out. That`s really the best thing that you can do. You can`t turn on the news at night. You have to just go back and practice law.

I got advice early on from Barry Scheck, who told me, "During the trial, whatever you do, don`t watch the news." So I took that to heart.


BAEZ: Yes. That`s exactly what I did. I had no idea you guys were talking so badly about me. I guess they say ignorance is bliss.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Barry Scheck would know, because he, of course, was a very famous attorney from the O.J. Simpson case.

Now, your jurors were sequestered.

BAEZ: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In this case, the defense attorneys cited the Casey Anthony case in arguing for this jury to be sequestered. But they lost. This jury is not sequestered. Do you think that was a mistake not to sequester this jury?

BAEZ: I think it was a huge mistake. These types of cases require sequestered jurors to ensure that they stay focused on both the facts and the law. And if you can`t have them focused on that, it`s so easily to get distracted and to succumb to the pressure when people are talking about you. When people are talking about something that`s involved in your life, especially something so time consuming as your life.

As a juror, you`re sitting there for eight hours a day, and you cannot speak a single word. You can`t interact, and you can`t talk to the people who the only thing you have in common with is the trial.

So as you get home, as you go back to your life, it`s just way too overwhelming, even for your family members and as well for the jurors to not block that out. I just don`t see how they would be able to. Even giving the jury the benefit of the doubt of knowing they want to follow the law, I just -- I don`t buy it. I think they should have been sequestered.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So if Dr. Conrad Murray is found guilty, do you feel the jury not being sequestered will be the basis for an appeal?

BAEZ: I think it will -- it will certainly be a large one for it. We have Supreme Court case law on sequestering juries as well as change-of- venue issues. So it would all depend on the strategy employed. Hopefully, the defense didn`t waive any of these types of objections. I believe they did lay out quite well what they wanted. And what basis they used for that.

So I certainly think it`s a -- going to be a major point of contention for the appeal as well as possible other ones that certainly come along the way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s something else you might be able to relate to. There is a lot of media reports suggesting that "oh, this defense team is fighting amongst themselves," that Ed Chernoff, the lead defense attorney, the one who looks kind of like Clark Kent with the glasses, took over from the other attorney, Michael Flanagan, a key cross- examination. He grabbed it for himself.

And then there were reports that Ed Chernoff moved out of his co- counsel`s house where he had been staying, into a hotel, which we have confirmed that. So what do you make of these reports of bickering in the defense team?

BAEZ: I would highly doubt them, No. 1. Because I`ve scent media take a small thing and blow it up to something bigger than what it really is. And the truth is, you don`t know if it wasn`t by design that Chernoff took over these witnesses. And there can also be certain things that may have influenced the change in strategy.

For example, I was originally going to cross-examine Roy Kronk. However, throughout the trial, all of my witnesses kept getting called one right after the other, after the other until a point where fatigue might have been playing a factor. So in order to avoid fatigue, I turned them over to Cheney Mason.

So you don`t know if that kind of thing is going on. And, you know, attorneys are going to bump heads. But at the end of the day, it`s like family fighting. You know, it`s really like family. When you try a case with someone, it`s like you`re family. And you`ll either be friends forever or enemies after that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jose on the other side



CHERNOFF: You do understand the difference between opinion and fact, don`t you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It was outright hostility. And I always say, if you`re going to be that hostile to a witness, there better be a big pay off.

CHERNOFF: You understand that everything you said in the last two days was your opinion. You do understand that, right? Do you understand that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I stated my name, which I think is a matter of fact.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we continue our exclusive, exclusive, interview with the one and only Jose Baez. Defense attorney Ed Chernoff has gotten, well, I`d have to say, downright tough, maybe even nasty on some of the prosecution witnesses. You had to go nose to nose with some prosecution witnesses. How hard is that, as a human being, to be perceived of as mean in front of the world, Jose?

BAEZ: Well, you know, this is Conrad`s Murray day in court. It`s his only chance. And you always try a case as if it`s going to be the first and the last time you ever try this case.

So if a defense attorney is -- is hard on a witness, it`s because they want to be. And it`s because a point of strategy. If they they`re light and they don`t go after them, it`s because they want to be, and it`s because of strategy. So it`s -- each and every witness you want to take a different approach with so that you get your main point across.

But it`s tough to not be a junkyard dog, but sometimes you have to be. And then sometimes you shouldn`t be. So it`s a very delicate line that a lawyer needs to know when to kind of take your foot off the gas and when to -- when to actually slam it.

So, you know, I don`t think, with this specific witness, that that was necessarily a problem. Because there`s been a lot of times where Dr. Shafer has been a little overaggressive with some of his testimony and has been somewhat of an advocate. And as an expert witness, you don`t want to be an advocate. You want to just testify about the science and give your - - give your medical opinions, not kind of throw in a little extra, which at times I`ve seen Dr. Shafer do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there were a lot of common themes between the Casey Anthony case and this case. And in your case, some people have criticized and say, you were putting George on trial, for example.

In this case, the defense is accused of trying to put Michael Jackson, the victim, on trial. And there -- just today there were a nurse testifying about his insomnia and a doctor saying, oh, he tried Xanax and Tylenol P.M. to get him to go to sleep. Is there -- is it dirty pool to try to put somebody else on trial other than the defendant?

BAEZ: First of all, I -- you called Michael Jackson the victim. Right now he`s the alleged victim. We don`t know what happened. I wasn`t there. You weren`t there. We don`t know what exactly happened. Actually, he`s the person that is deceased, but we don`t know if this is, as the defense says, by his own doing or is it something that Conrad Murray is responsible for. So there are a lot of facts in dispute, and to put someone on trial, that`s not, I guess, an accurate way of pointing that out.

When you hire a defense lawyer to fight for your life, you expect them to go toe to toe with any witnesses who get on that stand and sometimes stretch the truth. You shouldn`t back down. You`re there to be a fighter, an advocate. That`s what the lawyer`s job is, not the witnesses. So there`s a fine line there.

And the whole pictures, the overall picture is being painted now. And we just need to see what the finished product is on the canvas, when it`s all over and -- all over and done.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to get you on the other site of the break. We only have a couple of seconds. Let`s see. Yes or no question. Do you know where Casey is?

BAEZ: Yes and no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and no. OK. That`s a good one, thanks.

BAEZ: Yes and no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I had to ask that.

But on the other side of the break, Jose, some more questions.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Walgren do the people intend on calling any -- excuse me -- any other witnesses in this case?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the status of the people`s case?

WALGREN: The people are prepared and would ask to rest at this time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. It`s absolutely an extraordinary trial, and we are soon going to be on the verdict watch in the Michael Jackson death trial.

I`m here with my exclusive interview with Jose Baez, the lead defense attorney for Casey Anthony. I know personally, Jose, just as a human being and as a reporter, for me, the verdict watch is the most nerve-wracking part of any, any, any trial. And what we`re going to do then is -- in a little bit, we are going to get back it Jose -- but what I`m going to do right now is finish my sentence and say this.

The verdict watch is a very, very nerve-wracking time for everybody. The reporters and the lawyers and hopefully we are going to get insight, at some point, if not today, some other day from Jose Baez on how he handles the verdict watch and how he deals with his client. Because I think that would be very interesting.

Meanwhile, we`re going to will move on to the other top story of the day. That is the disappearance of Baby Lisa. Check this out.

New surveillance video could bring police one step closer to finding 11-month-old Baby Lisa.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New surveillance video could bring police one step closer to finding 11-month-old Baby Lisa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve seen a gentleman walking up the street carrying a baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is now word witnesses saw, something strange in the street that night and it involves a baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, things aren`t adding up and so you just -- you want to believe that there`s not a crazy person out there who`s taking babies. But you also want to believe the mom too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An FBI cadaver dog got a positive hit in the parents` bedroom near the bed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That baby is pure. And we pray for her protection.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER OF BABY LISA IRWIN: We need her home. I can`t -- I can`t be without her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shocking new video in the hunt for Baby Lisa. Will the surveillance footage from a gas station about two miles away from the missing 11-month-old`s home unlock this mystery?

Take a look at this adorable child and then take a look at this extraordinary footage. Ok? You`re going to see in the corner right there, a man dressed in white coming out of the woods at about 2:15 in the morning on the very night Baby Lisa is reported missing. This falls right in line with what three eyewitnesses reported seeing. Check this out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We couldn`t really tell the race at that time. It was dark and the lighting out there isn`t very good to tell somebody`s race. But we were able to see that he was kind of taller. I would say at least 5`8 or taller and he was really slender. He was wearing like dark- colored pants and what we believe was a t-shirt, like a white t-shirt.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So we`re going to show you an interesting map here. You can see Baby Lisa`s house. Ok, that neighbor who saw, that`s the couple who witnessed the mystery man holding a mostly naked baby, this neighbor`s home. And then they saw the baby, the man with the baby walking down the street at about 12:15.

Then there`s the gas station. Not even two miles away. I believe that was about 2:15 the morning that the mystery man was spotted there. And then you see another witness spots a man with a baby at 4:00 in the morning, about three miles away from Baby Lisa`s house. So this is wild. Do you think this mystery man could be Baby Lisa`s kidnapper?

Give me a holler if you can -- 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to -- I have another exclusive interview for you tonight.

Bill Stanton, the private investigator for Baby Lisa, the family, searching for Baby Lisa. He says his real client is the truth. So, Bill Stanton, what do you think about this mystery man? Could this mystery man be the key to solving this case?

BILL STANTON, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, yet to be determined. I think it is compelling. I think the simple fact that you have three separate witnesses all saying something to the effect of they saw someone carrying a child that wasn`t wrapped up in a blanket, that wasn`t necessarily wrapped up in baby clothes is compelling. These three witnesses didn`t know each other.

Now, I`m not the KCPD, I`m not the FBI, I haven`t had exposure to these witnesses. I haven`t followed up and know the validity or their backgrounds. But from what I`m hearing, this is quite interesting. And this falls in directly with the time line that we have been talking about since this first occurred.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, on the other side of the coin, the affidavit saying the cadaver dogs hit on a scent inside the home near the bed, near the bed in the mother`s room. Listen to this, from ABC`s "Good Morning America".


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The dog alerted on one side or the other of the bed. But as you notice, when you walk around, all of the carpeting is intact. That is, it was not cut out, to preserve, whatever it was, that the dog allegedly hit on?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bill Stanton, private investigator searching for Baby Lisa, here tonight exclusively, what do you make of the cadaver dog hitting on the floor in the mother`s bedroom?

STANTON: Well, you know, I have my own personal and professional theories. I will keep them to myself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s what we would like to know. Why?

STANTON: Because I`m not the defense attorney. I`m not here to defend the family. I`m here for the truth.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not suggesting you`re a defense attorney. I just want to find out, what do you think?

STANTON: To me, it doesn`t fall in with the time line. I mean, the people that I have spoken to, that know, that have worked these cases in the past, that have handled these type of dogs, you know, there are a lot of false positives that you know, more times than not, the mistake happened by the handler.

Now let me make note: I`m not questioning the KCPD or FBI, but what I`m questioning is the time line. Tell me when this child was killed and placed on the floor and for how long. You have to remember, there were two boys in the house at the time. So what`s to be said is this mother accidentally or on purpose murdered this child, contained herself, not waking up the children, and left the baby there for enough time for a dog to hit upon it.

For me, my personal feeling is, it did not happen. I`m still -- now, understand, I`m still looking at the family. I`m not totally discounting them. But I have yet to hear credible information or proof that would lead me to them. I`m still -- I have one eye on them, but I am more looking to the outside, other, outside the family. That`s why I want to keep the focus.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, at 12:15. Deborah and Jeremy`s neighbors -- that`s the mother and father of the missing child -- say they saw a man carrying a baby -- a child that was mostly naked -- walking down the street. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband was standing right next to our -- we had another vehicle out there. And he was standing at that vehicle. And he was looking, first he was looking down the street and then, all of a sudden, he turned and started -- he was looking at the gentleman because he was walking up that way.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. A final question, Bill Stanton, here tonight exclusively. How do you get a baby, the mother is drinking. She`s admitted she had at least five glasses of wine, plus according to reports, anti-anxiety meds. How does the baby get from inside her home outside to a man, basically walking with a child, naked in 45 degree temperatures, walking down the road, not hiding? Not hiding in the woods, just walking down the road, where three witnesses have seen this man with a baby and he is also quite possibly spotted on surveillance video at this gas station?

STANTON: Well if you have seen anything I`ve done on air, I work for major networks where I do safety security segments. I have broken into homes in broad daylight. I`ve kidnapped kids right in town squares. And nobody does a thing. So I will tell you, I`ve experienced this. I`ve done it for television. So quite easily, he could have easily gone through the front door or window. So it`s not unheard of. I mean these things do happen.

And what I want to do is keep focus that this baby could very well still be alive and is out there and there is a $100,000 reward. That`s why I`m doing this air.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we certainly hope and pray that that baby is found alive and ok, and that somehow that mystery man with that child wasn`t doing anything wrong. But it certainly is suspicious and bizarre.

STANTON: Yes it is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much, Bill Stanton.

STANTON: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Come back soon.

All right, on the other side of the break, we are going back to the Jackson death trial and we have Jose Baez back with us. So, more fascinating conversation with the lead defense attorney from the Casey Anthony case as the defense gets under way in the Michael Jackson death trial.

Stay with us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Walgren, do the people intend on calling any - - excuse me -- any other witnesses in this case?

WALGREN: No your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the status of the people`s case?

WALGREN: The people are prepared and would ask to rest at this time.




RICHARD FORESTER, BOYFRIEND OF ROBYN GARDNER: I can`t see her taking or anybody taking sleeping pills in the middle of the day. And then following it up with vodka and then going snorkeling. It just doesn`t make any sense whatsoever.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do I believe that in one instance that she could still be alive? Absolutely, I do. But only Gary can tell us that.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A new witness says that he was on the beach that afternoon when Robyn Gardner and Gary were supposedly snorkeling. He says he saw the couple but he never saw them go into the water.

FORESTER: All I want to do doesn`t matter. I just want to find her and I want justice to be served.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: These things really mean little, except for as was pointed out, the timeframe. What she was wearing, who she was with, when it happened, where she was going. And this was the last time she was seen.

SAVIDGE: They searched a vast area. So far, no sign of Robyn, no clues even as to what may have happened to Robyn Gardner.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Welcome back. I am back with my exclusive interview with Jose Baez, the lead defense attorney in the Casey Anthony case. Of course he is responsible for the acquittal of Casey Anthony on murder charges.

And we took a brief break because we understand that Jose Baez, who is now representing Gary Giordano, who is the key suspect in the disappearance of Robyn Gardner, the woman you just saw there on camera, has some breaking news for us about the Gary Giordano case.

And we can show some footage of Gary Giordano and Robyn Gardner as we talk about this case. Jose Baez, your client, Gary Giordano has been behind bars for a while. He is the key suspect, according to the Aruban authorities, in the disappearance of Robyn Gardner.

Now they went to Aruba together and she disappeared. And he said that oh, that they went snorkeling together and she just never came back. What information do you have as Gary Giordano`s attorney?

JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR GARY GIORDANO: Well, I wouldn`t put it that way, that she just went snorkeling and never came back. They went out snorkeling. The currents picked up and got extremely violent and Gary barely made it back to shore. And unfortunately, Robyn did not.

There would be nothing more that all of us would want, would be for -- to have found Robyn. But unfortunately she never surfaced. So, that -- because of that and because of basically of what happened with the Natalee Holloway case and how Aruba was, the Aruban police were criticized vastly as well as the prosecution -- they are taking it out on Gary.

And I am defending him vigorously along with Chris Lejuez (ph), who we just brought on board, who is a one-man dream team. And we are going to basically fight and do everything we can to get Gary freed because he is being held unjustly without zero evidence of a crime. And certainly he should be let go and we`re going to do everything we can.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what I`m hearing you saying is, that there is a nexus of sorts between the tragic disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba, and how police handled that case and the criticism they came under. And that is going to be something that you`re going to focus on in your defense of Gary Giordano. It is almost like six degrees of separation between that case and the Gary Giordano case, Jose?

BAEZ: It`s an unfortunate nexus between the two cases. But what you have to realize is this is a -- this is a government trial type. There`s going to be three professional judges that actually end up hearing this, if they decide to charge him.

Now mind you, they haven`t charged him. And Gary has been extremely cooperative from the very first day he gave statement after statement after statement. He made a total of 16 different statements to law enforcement. They were all consistent. And they`re trying their best to try and shoot holes in his statements, but they haven`t been successful. They brought up cadaver dogs, they searched the entire island. And it is time to set Gary free. It really is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to ask you one question about some breaking news that`s just in. It`s just been handed to me. We all know that these mega cases really go far beyond the confines of a courtroom or even the limitations of a verdict. And of course, other deals are quite often part of the equation and there are reports from TMZ that a network producer is trying to land an interview with your client, Casey Anthony, and has actually tried to negotiate a book deal for her so that in return, she might do the interview with that network. Any thoughts on that at all, Jose?

BAEZ: Not really. Every network has been very professional with me. There is no pay-for-interview deal in the works or anything like that. I don`t know when the speculation will end, if it will ever end. It makes for good fodder. But aside from that, you know, I just don`t pay any mind to it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, before the break, I had said that for me, as a reporter, the most nerve-wracking time of any case is the trial, verdict watch. How do you comfort a client during that wait for the verdict? What do you say?

BAEZ: Well, you know, there`s a time where the case is over. And you need to let the client know that you certainly did your best. And you want to brace them for the best and also for the worst and you want to basically put them in the reality of the situation and you have to plan for either one. And if you don`t, you are doing your client a disservice.

So I think what`s happening, I think it is way too soon for us to be talking about that regarding Conrad Murray, because the defense could hit it out of the park. And everyone has not been giving them their fair shake and that`s because it`s been the prosecution`s case. So we`ve got a long way to go -- a very long way to go in the Conrad Murray trial and I think - - after the case is done, the closings are done, that these defense lawyers will do and continue to do the fine job that they are doing.

I have seen great lawyering on both sides of this case. And I don`t anticipate it to stop. I think it`s going to continue.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ve only got like a couple of seconds. So I can only ask you a quick question. If you had to grade the prosecution`s case, give us a grade. We`ve only got ten seconds.

BAEZ: I haven`t seen enough to give them an actual grade. But everything that I`ve seen they`ve done a bang-up job. So I would give them an A.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jose, great seeing you. Come back soon, ok.


TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, ATTORNEY: We`re is going to go back in the jury room and say if this is a mistake is it gross negligence or do they think it`s more? And the problem is this becomes very, very confusing for the jurors. So I think the prosecution has done a great job stream lining their case and the defense is going to have to do the same thing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This trial has brought together a fascinating group of people. With me tonight who we were talking outside court, Tanya Young Williams, a brilliant attorney and somebody who knows exactly what it`s like to be part of a high-profile criminal trial -- why -- because she was in the middle of one. Her estranged husband, ex-NBA star, Jason Williams, remember that case -- he was accused of shooting to death a limo driver. He was accused of aggravated manslaughter in that case.

He was actually found not guilty of the most serious charge. They`ve hung on another charge and he`s currently in jail on a DUI, is my understanding. Ok, I think I got that right. It was a very complicated case.

But, you were there. You were in the middle of all this. What`s it like to be a family member, sitting there in the gallery helpless as this mega trial of somebody you care about goes on around you.

WILLIAMS: As a family member I think I was, I had the opportunity to be engaged as an attorney so I was very in tune to what was is going on. But as a family member of the Jacksons that`s there -- especially Randy, he`s there every day. He gets a hold of what the jurors are thing. He`s looking in their jurors` eyes, there are nuances that you -- there are experiences that you have with the jurors. You communicate with them in non-verbal ways.

And as a family member sitting there you can assess after week three or week four, what jury members really are supporting you and which ones may be supporting the defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Janet Jackson has cancelled several concert dates in Australia and she said, "I talked to my family on the phone. I`m heading." And she may very well be showing up tomorrow. Why is it so important for Janet Jackson to be here as the defense case begins?

WILLIAMS: I think Janet is going to be here not because the prosecution wants her there. She knows it`s important to be a family unit. What the defense is not doing is having any support for Dr. Murray.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, apparently his mom is there.

WILLIAMS: His mom has been there on occasion. But the jurors -- I`ve learned from the jurors because they reached out to me after our trial. I`ve learned that having a family unit there supporting the defendant is key.

Dr. Murray doesn`t seem to have a support system. There seems to be dissension with the defense team. I think they need to humanize him however they can but they haven`t done it yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, what`s interesting is that there are reports and I`ve just talked to Jose Baez about this, of all sorts of bickering in the defense team and oh, my gosh, Ed Chernoff took over for Michael Flanagan on the key cross-examination and now Chernoff has left Michael Flanagan`s house where he was staying and moved into a hotel. What do you think of all that? You`re there watching the whole thing.

WILLIAMS: Jurors can pick up on that. Jurors can pick up when there`s a problem or conflict with the defense. First of all, Dr. Murray needs to be more engaged in the trial of his life. He sits there, he doesn`t take notes.

Jurors pick up on that. They can see when the attorney`s body language changes. These are the nuances that people on TV are watching but the jurors are getting that firsthand. And they`re assessing what they think the defense has and their strong points. And they are also looking at them and say goodness they can`t even get along. What kind of a case is this?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Although sometimes when Casey Anthony was taking notes I was like, what is she taking notes for? What the heck is writing down?

WILLIAMS: Because you know what; when it`s your life, at the end of the day, your attorney may be brilliant. But he may forget one thing that`s important. But when it`s your life on there you don`t forget anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Tanya, it`s such a delight having you here on ISSUES.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I hope you come back soon, ok.

WILLIAMS: Thank you for having me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your analysis is really important.

We`ll be right back. What a day.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tomorrow is going to be a huge day in the Michael Jackson death trial. Janet Jackson has cancelled a number of concerts in Melbourne, Australia and word is that she`s headed back to Los Angeles to be there in court to support her late brother, Michael Jackson. So she is expected to be showing up in court tomorrow.

We`re going to be all over it. I`m going to be live outside the courthouse as she comes in if, indeed, she makes it back from Australia in time. Meantime, the defense case now underway; are they going to try to put Michael Jackson on trial?

Or is the judge going to hold the line and say this case will not become a referendum on Michael Jackson`s lifestyle. It`s about Conrad Murray. Did he do the right thing or not. Did he kill the king of pop?

"NANCY GRACE" is up next.