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New Clues in Baby Lisa`s Disappearance

Aired October 31, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Good evening, Jane Velez- Mitchell here, the defense anesthesiologist, grueling marathon on the witness stand continues. At the end of court in just a few minutes, I`m going to bring you major breaking news in the Baby Lisa case, extraordinary developments you don`t want to miss. Now back into the courtroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, we`ve talked about how Propofol can be used to anesthetize an individual, you can actually do open heart surgery on them. Is that correct?

WHITE: I think you mean anesthetize -- anesthetize, but deep sedation is not the same as anesthesia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the difference?

WHITE: When a person is anesthetized, you`re providing not only unconsciousness or hypnosis, but you`re also providing analgesia, or relief of pain and, typically, muscle relaxation. So it`s sort of a triad. Whereas when you provide the deep sedation, again, sedation is one compliment of anesthesia, but not the entire spectrum. Unless you give a massive amount, and then you can block pain -- response to painful stimuli.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, you`ve used the term MAC care. M-A-C?

WHITE: Monitored anesthesia care, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And can that be used for major surgery, like say hip replacement or intra-abdominal surgery?

WHITE: No, not typically. I`m not -- I mean, you may be able to do some procedures, minimally invasively that are intracalvatary (ph) but certainly not major open procedures, as you`re suggesting.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me know for purposes of adjournment, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This would be fine, Your Honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, may I see counsel?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, explosive developments in the missing Baby Lisa case. Reports claim the woman says she got a mystery phone call from a cell phone, allegedly stolen from the baby`s home, has a bizarre connection to the homeless man who was questioned in this case. And a witness IDs the man seen carrying a baby through the neighborhood the very night Baby Lisa vanished. Is there something that connects all these people? Reaction from a mother who endured the kidnapping and murder of her own child.

Also, reports of a breakup that has even jaded Hollywood insiders stunned. Only 72 days after their $10 million wedding, reality star Kim Kardashian is divorcing NBA player Kris Humphries. Are they spitting on the institution of marriage?

Plus, fireworks in court. It gets personal on all fronts in the Michael Jackson death trial. Reports claim a verdict could come down as early as next week. Has Dr. Conrad Murray`s defense team done their job or will he end up behind bars?

And we have a Halloween treat for you. We`re taking your calls.

ISSUES starts now.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something is really wrong with Mom and Dad in this case. And I`m afraid that it probably is going to end up being something that led to the death of a child, I hate to say.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is putting puzzle pieces together here, you know. My suspicions, my own personal theories of what may or may not have happened that night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He turned and looked at me, and I looked at him. I could tell he had a baby with him. She had a T-shirt and either training pants or a diaper on. It was too cold for that, I thought.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope they find whoever did it. I hope those parents weren`t involved.

MEGAN WRIGHT, RECEIVED PHONE CALL FROM MISSING PHONE: Apparently, there was a 50-second phone call made from one of the parents` phones to my cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really just takes the one right nugget of information to kick this thing off in high gear, and that`s what we`re still looking and waiting for.

CYNDI SHORT, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR BABY LISA`S PARENTS: Lisa is the little girl that was going to hold this family together, that linked them together.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, BABY LISA`S MOTHER: She`s -- she`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family, and she -- she means everything to my boys. And we -- we need her home. I can`t -- I can`t be without her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shocking, extraordinary twists and turns in the hunt for missing Baby Lisa.

Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from Los Angeles.

The 11-month-old vanished from her crib almost a month ago. Now there are a whole bunch of new clues and new leads. We hope they will lead to Baby Lisa. Has the man carrying a baby down the road at 4 a.m., less than four miles from Baby Lisa`s house, now been identified? Let`s listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that the man you saw?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who that is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I don`t know him.



Now that man has been identified as a man who lives in the community. But he is not the homeless handyman who was originally questioned by police. That`s another individual. We`re going to get to him in a moment.

So who is this mystery man who was seen holding a baby? Now let`s speak about the handyman. There`s another shocking twist there. The woman who got a phone call, OK, from one of the stolen cell phones that was reportedly taken from the home of the missing child, that woman is not a random connection to this case, as we first believed. Listen to this.


WRIGHT: He`s an ex-boyfriend of mine. We dated for about five months. I met him when I lived further down on Brighton. He was just a friend of a friend. He and I were together for, less than five months. After I ended up moving in here, we broke up shortly afterwards, and at least a couple weeks before (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They call him Jersey, right?

WRIGHT: Yes, he goes by Jersey.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So let`s take a look at the connections. You have Deborah Bradley, the missing child`s mother. Her purportedly stolen cell phone was used to call the woman with the pink hair, Megan Wright.

Then have you a romantic relationship between Megan and this homeless man who does work in yards in the neighborhood, John Tanko (ph), who goes by the name Jersey. So can we connect the dots? Is there a relationship between Deborah and Jersey? This homeless man.

And then what about this other man who lives in the community, who a man who was driving his motorcycle at 4 a.m. said was a man holding a baby. Is there a connection? All of this happening in the same general area.

What do you think about this? There is really bizarre. Call me: 1- 877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to CNN reporter Jim Spellman, who is on the ground doing some fantastic reporting talking to all of these parties, really putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Can you spell it out briefly and simply, all these new people, and what their possible connections are?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, they all connect right back here pretty much to this intersection, where Deborah Bradley, Jeremy Irwin lives and where Baby Lisa disappeared from.

We know that -- that this woman, Megan, and Jersey, spent time in this neighborhood. We know that Jersey cut through a yard often, a yard where we now know police have taken footprints, and it leads right from where one witness saw a man at 12:15 in this neighborhood lead straight to where there was a Dumpster fire reported at 2:30. So there`s a lot of geographic connections and a lot of interpersonal connections. But we`re just not able, really, to tie it back to Deborah Bradley or Jeremy Irwin directly at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, let`s go through the time line, because it`s a very complicated story now. But here`s what we know from the night that Baby Lisa disappeared. Her mom, Deborah Bradley says she goes to the store and buys a box of wine and says she put the baby to sleep around 6:40 p.m. on October 3. Then she and a neighbor had been drinking. And the neighbor says that -- another neighbor says she and her husband saw a man with a baby, a man holding a baby, walking down the street at 12:15 in the morning.

Two hours later, 2:15 a.m., a gas station surveillance camera catches man, matching the same description with a white T-shirt walking down the road. Finally, a man on a motorcycle says he saw a man carrying a baby, a baby that was wearing only type diaper in 45 degrees temperature, walking down the street at 4 in the morning, just about three miles from Baby Lisa`s house.

Now, we have this bizarre connection about this woman with the pink hair who got the phone call having a relationship with the handyman that cops had questioned in the case.

And Jim Spellman, is it not true that the handyman was doing work just around the corner from where the baby disappeared, and that the place that he was doing work is very, very, in a direct line to a garbage dump that was set on fire at 4 in the morning -- Jim.

SPELLMAN: At 12:15, somebody walking up the street says that person then turned left off of the street and walked into a yard. In that yard, where this person walked, we know that this handyman, John Tanko, a.k.a., Jersey, was doing work that evening in that timeframe of about 9:30 to about 11. The next-door neighbor tells us that he was working for this family, moving sprinklers around on some fresh grass seed.

If you walk right through that backyard to the fence of that backyard, you are looking directly at the Dumpster that was set on fire. The geography is tricky, but it`s very important here, I think, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And then, we have another suspicious fact. We`ve got to set it up, and then we`re going to get the analysis.

A 50-second phone call that the woman with the pink hair, Megan Wright, got from Deborah Bradley, the missing baby`s mother`s cell phone, that Deborah Bradley said was stolen from her house, Megan says she has in idea who called it or who answered it. Listen to this.


WRIGHT: I didn`t hear my phone in time, but apparently, there was a 50-second phone call made from one of the family`s phones to my cell phone. About 50 seconds in length. I don`t know what was said or who called or who answered my phone. But that`s what the police have been questioning me about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So -- so the police told you that this happened?

WRIGHT: My phone -- we have eight people that live here and only one cell phone at the time, so it was pretty much community, whoever needed my phone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Steve Moore, former FBI, house full of eight people and it`s a prepaid cell phone, because that`s cheaper. And then she tries to sell a GPS device, and she lists that same phone number, apparently, and a whole bunch of FBI agents swarm in to interview her for six hours. What do you make of this mess?

STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI: Well, what I make of it is that the whole case is falling into place for Kansas City Police, for the FBI. You`re getting such an avalanche of clues coming in, of connections coming in, that I think it is collapsing.

And I think that the police in Kansas City have more than a hunch. They polygraphed the mother but then said that they didn`t need to polygraph the father, which to me says they`ve got more than a hunch. They`ve got a theory as to how it happened and when it happened. I think - - I think you`re going to see things moving fairly rapidly very soon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And let`s remember, a couple of other facts. The mother admits she was drunk and had at least probably five glasses of wine and was taking anti-anxiety meds. And the cadaver dogs hit on the scent of a dead -- dead human in her bedroom.

We`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to one of my heroes, Erin Runnion. Her daughter was viciously murdered, and now Erin has taken her grief and turned it into action. She`s going to weigh in on this case, coming up in a moment.


JEREMY IRWIN, BABY LISA`S FATHER: I came home from work, the front door was unlocked. Most of the lights were on in the house. And the window was, in the front was open. Obviously, all very unusual. I started checking on the kids, checking on the boys first. And then went and checked on her and that`s when we realized she was gone.




BRADLEY: He said, "She`s not in her crib."

I said, "What do you mean she`s not in her crib?" And I just knew, you know. I something was really wrong. And we were running around the house, and we were screaming for her, and she was nowhere. And then, I said, "Call 911. Call 911."

And he said, "Where are the phones?" And they weren`t on the counter where I left them. They were gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely, you could tell they were probably in drugs. She was shady (UNINTELLIGIBLE). But he was a nice guy.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you heard the issue of drugs come into the equation. That`s a woman who lives in the neighborhood, who says she knows this handyman, Jersey, who by the way, cops say is not a suspect. He`s behind bars on some kind of burglary allegation. But he is not a suspect, they say, in this case. But he`s in the neighborhood, according to this woman, that night. She thinks so, because he`s turning on and off sprinklers for a home that he watches.

And he used to go out with the girl with the pink hair, who got the call from the phone that was purportedly stolen from the home along with the baby.

Edith Fine-Duskin, you are in touch with Baby Lisa`s family. What do you make of all these bizarre connections? All of these people coming out of the woodwork who have kind of odd stories?

EDITH FINE-DUSKIN, KNOWS BABY LISA`S FAMILY: I think, my personal opinion, is I think this should have been taken care of in the first days that it`s been, that she got reported missing. Then I believe, in my heart and in things I`ve been seeing since I`ve been out here day one, that if we had all of this in the beginning, we would have our little Baby Lisa back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think the cops knew about a lot of this from the very beginning and I think that -- I want to bring in Erin Runnion for a second. I think you`ve worked with cops very, very closely. And they obviously solved the case of your precious, precious daughter`s murder. And again, my heart goes out to you, and you`re my hero.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you make of this story from a mother`s perspective?

RUNNION: Well, it is a mess, and my heart breaks for this baby. And I just don`t know what to make of the family. And I`m hesitant to jump to conclusions, because the investigation is continuing. But it seems to me that, with drugs and alcohol being involved, anything could have happened.

You know, one thing that pops out to me is there were two sightings of a baby barely clothed in 40-degree weather in the middle of the night. Call the police. That is child endangerment. It`s worth a phone call. It might have saved a life.


Edith, what do you think, hearing about these connections between the woman who gets the phone call -- it`s hard to keep up. It`s complicated. She gets a phone call, OK, but there`s eight people living in the house. She doesn`t even answer. The phone goes on for 50 seconds. It`s a prepaid phone. When she get to it, she says, it`s -- the actual logs are erased.

She went out with this guy, named Jersey, nickname, who is doing yard work in the house. He was questioned by police, and apparently, he`s behind bars on a burglary allegation.

What could the explanation of this phone be? Could it be that -- that the mother, when she was drunk and passed out, somehow let other people into her house to party?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: People do that when they`re drunk sometimes, Edith. No? Why not?

FINE-DUSKIN: Well, that could happen, yes. But I don`t think -- I don`t think Debbie let anybody in the house. I think this is somebody out here that`s wanting it make a name for themselves. Because you know, I do believe in the sightings now. You know, from -- the ones from the street and the three sightings. But I believe this is just a -- just a thing, you know...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you don`t think the mother let anybody into the house?

FINE-DUSKIN: That was a no.



WRIGHT: They took me downtown on the 8th. I was interrogated for about six hours by a couple different police officers. They told me that my number was written on the palm of her hand, and it was shown to a detective. And they had looked at the call logs between my phones and as well as the families.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know Deborah Bradley?

WRIGHT: No, I`ve never met her or anyone else in that family that I`m aware of.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is the woman who got a call on her prepaid cell phone the night that Baby Lisa went missing, about 8 to 8:30, by the way, which is very early in the evening. And she`s saying that cops told her that the mother of the missing child had her number written on her hand. We don`t know if that`s true, because sometimes cops will make up stories to get information. But if it is true, if it is true, what does it say to you?

RUNNION: It says to me that she`s lying. And it ties all of it together. Really. I mean, if that number was on the mother`s hand, and she supposedly didn`t know this woman, who formally dated the handyman, all of it kind of ties them closer together.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And when you say she`s lying, you`re talking about who?

RUNNION: The mother.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s hard to say, I know.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know that for a fact, but...

RUNNION: I just know that if it were my baby, I would not be grieving yet. I would be hoping, and praying and begging for people to be looking for my baby.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She did use that phrase, grieving. That was something a lot of people found interesting.

Sugar Lee Lewis, you were searching for Baby Lisa in Kansas City. What do you make of these developments, Sugar Lee?

SUGAR LEE LEWIS, SEARCHING FOR BABY LISA: Well, one of the things that I had been watching very closely, been out here on the run, looking for Baby Lisa and following the police and the FBI reports very, very closely. There`s many opinions here in Kansas City.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you make of the fact that there are now these other figures? The mystery man, with the baby, spotted by three people, in the area. When it`s 45 degrees, the baby is wearing almost nothing.

Then you have a handyman in the area, who is the former boyfriend of the woman who gets a call in the -- at 8 at night, the night the child disappears, from a cell phone that the mother said was taken, was stolen when whoever, the mystery abductor, took her child.

Do you see a connection that Erin Runnion is seeing, that all of these people may be connected, and that in Megan Wright`s case, she also has eight roommates, and the man who goes by Jersey, the neighbor, says that she thinks he might be on drugs. Right now, he`s behind bars on a burglary charge.

I want to go to Steve Moore -- Steve? OK. I`m going to go back to Sugar Lee. Your thoughts on it?

LEWIS: Well, what I really feel like, directly at the end, there`s all kinds of information that`s circulated. But I definitely feel like we have the best FBI and also the Kansas City, Missouri, Police Department in the world.

I think that, after all of this information, everything going to be put together. Sooner or later, everyone is going to know exactly what happened to Baby Lisa. That there is many things that are out here. There`s -- many people have seen and sighted. Probably not all of that information...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to have to leave it right there, Sugar Lee. But I just want to say that the mother and the father are not considered suspects. The police have made a point of...



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The blushing bride donned an ivory custom-designed Vera Wang gown with a full tulle skirt. Kim wore her hair up with a veil literally dripping in diamonds that covered her forehead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kim is always really sexy and glamorous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wanted to have sort of a fairy tale wedding with all of her family and friends there. And that`s what she had.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The groom was pretty dapper himself wearing a white lapel tuxedo jacket and black pants.

KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY STAR: I guess Kris wants me to pack and unpack for him. Like that`s what wives are supposed to do. And I was like I bet wives don`t have jobs like this all the time. I`m really busy.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Too busy it appears to work on her marriage. Has Kim Kardashian made a mockery of matrimony? Today, Kim Kardashian of the clan that has never met a camera or publicity stunt that they didn`t like filed for divorce from her new husband, Kris Humphries. And I say, I think this deserves music, frankly because it is that exciting.

The 6`9 professional basketball player -- these two have been married for only 72 days, 72 days. The ink on their marriage certificate was barely dry before she filed papers in Los Angeles asking that her union be dissolved citing, of course, irreconcilable differences. That`s what they always say.

In a statement, the formerly blushing bride said that, "After careful consideration, I have decided to end my marriage. I hope everyone understands this was not an easy decision. I had hoped this marriage was forever but sometimes things don`t work out as planned. We remain friends and wish each other the best."

So was their lavish and expensive marriage in August just another Kardashian publicity stunt with an estimated cost of 10 million clams? That`s right, $10 million and full coverage on E!

Apparently Kris Humphries says he was blindsided. "I love my wife and I am devastated to learn she filed for divorce," is what he is saying. "I`m committed to this marriage and everything this covenant represents and I`m willing to do whatever it takes to make it work."

I think we deserve to hear some wedding bells. What do you think? Give me a call, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Straight out to Mike Walters, news manager, TMZ; give us the Scooby Doo here.

MIKE WALTERS, NEWS MANAGER, TMZ: Well, Jane, here`s what actually happened and the reason why they actually filed for divorce. And that is the, the lifestyle differences. Kris is a small town guy from Minnesota. Kim is the head of an entire empire of fashion and celebrity and all the stuff that she does here in Hollywood.

And the reality is, they both knew that that is what is going on before they got married. But according to them, they had the talk and Kim said, yes, at some point I would move back it Minnesota and have kids and raise a family. Kris thought like this year. She thought like 20 years from now.

So I`m told that the reason this all fell apart is they finally realized once all that wedding hoopla was over, they are very different people and they want very different things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Kim Kardashian in Minnesota -- I don`t see it. I spent two years there. I loved it. I froze. But I loved it. Great people. I do not see Kim -- first of all, you can`t wear very short skirts in Minnesota in the winter time. Ok. I tried and I almost froze to death.

Ok. Here are some basic points of their marriage. Their wedding cost an estimated $10 million. It was broadcast on E! over two nights; watched by more than 8 million people. They have only been married for 72 days -- 72 days.

George Takei, you are a famous actor, live long and prosper. I remember that phrase from one of your hits. What do you make? It`s so great to see you, so great to have you on. I grew up doing my Star Trek impersonations and I`m a huge, huge, huge fan. I love you.

But what do you make of the fact that they are getting divorced or she is going to divorce him after 72 days of marriage? Even though 8 million Americans watched them get married about 72 days ago.

GEORGE TAKEI, ACTOR: Well, my husband and I -- my husband brad and I, define marriage as a union between two people who love each other, who are committed for to each other, who will care for each other through thick and thin.

Now apparently their approach is casting a man and woman in a wedding spectacular and then wrapping it up in 72 days. We know how precious our wedding is because we have had to struggle for it. And there`s a struggle still going on for equality here.

So I think we understand what marriage is far more than some man-and- woman unions. We have been together for 24 years. Next march we will be celebrating our 25th anniversary together; three of that, legally -- 21, illegally. But we want to share our happiness and our pride in being Americans and America provided for our marriage. We got married in the democracy forum of the Japanese-American National Museum.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: George Takei, I love you. I think what you are saying is that these guys are making a mockery out of the institution of marriage.

Tanya Young Williams, let me ask you -- you`re a legal analyst and also you`re the estranged wife of Jason Williams. And you`ve been involved with basketball wives and a lot of other things that may have some commonalities with this situation -- in other words, having a marriage that`s watched on television.

First of all, what do you make of the issue -- is it, they are both rich or is there disparity here?

TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, LEGAL ANALYST: There is a huge disparity. Kris is a young player in the NBA. He has a little bit of money. Kim is worth, I believe, over $100 million -- that`s why she pushed for the pre-nuptial agreement. The NBA is in a lockout -- another bit problem with him, too much time on his hands.

Let`s not forget, if you look at the players in the NBA now, they all want to be TV stars. Part of the problem, I understand with the relationship, is not only is he a miser but all of a sudden he got bit by the Hollywood bug. He hired a publicist, I believe, over the weekend. He wants to be a star just like so many other NBA players want to be.

So he`s -- I understand why there`s a problem and it seems to be a big one. She loves Elizabeth Taylor. Elizabeth Taylor had what -- seven, eight, nine; she is on two. She`s finished with two, maybe that`s her goal right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We might get see more. So in other words, next season, we could see another E! special on another marriage that costs $10 million.

You know what; there are people suffering on the other side of the world who don`t have a grain of food to eat. And if you`re going to spend $10 million on a marriage, I respectfully submit you should give it more than 72 days.

Kim and Kris were doing a whole lot of fighting in the days leading up to their wedding. And their spats were broadcast on keeping up with the Kardashians. So check this out and then we`re going to analyze with a top flight lawyer here in Los Angeles.


KARDASHIAN: I`m doing everything by myself and I can`t even ask you to help me out.

KRIS HUMPHRIES, NBA PLAYER: Maybe we should (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pull the plug.

KARDASHIAN: I have been planning this wedding since I was ten years old.

HUMPHRIES: Yes. And you could just slot any guy into it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Stacy Phillips, you are a very noted family law attorney. I would say one of the top in the nation. What do you make of this?

George essentially saying -- George Takei, that they are making a mockery out of the institution of marriage.

STACY PHILLIPS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: I agree with him. And I agree that if you are focusing on a relationship that is stable and long-term, why are you focusing the government, the people who are against gay marriages? That it`s only a heterosexual relationship.

He has 25 years. I would not call it illegal. A 25-year relationship versus 72 days; I mean, that`s pathetic. And if you want stable marriages, then two people who love each other -- go for it, George.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what; I want to ask you this, Tanya. Can you have a marriage on television? I mean it is supposed to be about intimacy; intimacy that doesn`t just occur between the sheets, but intimacy. How can you have intimacy when -- and that is like "into me see", somebody that to me once, I thought that was very apt -- if you`ve got cameras watching every move.

YOUNG WILLIAMS: I think Kris wasn`t prepared for what he was walking into. This has been Kim`s life for a very long time. And you have to understand, I`ve been on the reality TV. It takes a small part of your day. You do have the opportunity to have a really strong marriage out of the few hours that the cameras are there. I think they started out by not having a solid relationship. And this is what has happened.

I think it`s a good thing that they ended it now before they had children and brought children into the equation. That would have been a bigger mess.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But we kind of saw this coming, ok, because we were watching the show and Kris Humphries on the show clearly felt pressure from some of the other Kardashians. I mean they fought and we`re going to show you how they fought. Listen to this from E!


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he is in love with the glitz and glam. I don`t know how pure his intentions are.

HUMPHRIES: I know when you`re talking bad about me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this very opportunistic of you?

HUMPHRIES: Opportunistic? How dare you question someone else`s marriage? Are you sure you`re not using La Mar?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So is it possible that they were rushed into marriage for the sake of ratings? Now, George Takei, you have been an actor. You`ve been around for a long time. I can get pretty cynical about Hollywood and what people will do to be on camera -- George.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Do you think this was a publicity stunt?

TAKEI: Well, it is pretty clear that it was for show. It was a spectacular reality show. I mean millions of dollars; ours cost only $70,000. And I say only. But it --


TAKEI: But it was meaningful. And we cherish it and we were really proud that we were able to share it with 200 of our friends. Ours was an honest and -- what really marriage should be between two people who commit to each other for life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to some of the tweets. We`ve got some amazing tweets.

"Kim K, imagine how many homeless people, starving children, $10 million would have cared for."

"The standard return policy is 90 days even at Target."

Kim, I don`t know what to say. Except that it may feel very fun right now. It may feel like a big adventure, but these are really serious things. Marriage is something that is supposed to be entered into, not for a big chunk of diamonds on your finger. Not for a big hunky guy next to you, but for love. That`s one word I haven`t heard come up, love. Where is the love? Where is the love, Kim? Kim?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He used extensive large doses of Demerol, all through April, all through early May and again at the end of May. (INAUDIBLE) Demerol, 200 milligrams. 3:30 p.m., Demerol 200 milligrams. 7:00 p.m., Demerol 200 milligrams. He was probably addicted to opiates. Botox and the axilla for perspiration and botox this time to the groin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson was suffering from the Demerol withdrawal. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling and obsessing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is consistent with the development of tolerance.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shock waves from the Demerol defense rock the Jackson family. And will Michael Jackson`s doctor testify in his own defense? He has until 11:30 tomorrow morning to decide. As soon as he does, we will bring it to you first right here on HLN.

Now today, Dr. Murray has said he didn`t really make up his mind yet apparently as to whether or not he`s going to testify. The Jackson family reeling from accusations that the king of pop was allegedly hooked on Demerol. Watch what Latoya Jackson said to me this morning on her way into court.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I wanted to ask you, how did the Demerol fit into the conspiracy theory?

LATOYA JACKSON, SISTER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: It is all a conspiracy and you know this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. With me here in Los Angeles, I`m pleased to welcome back Garo Ghazarian, the attorney for Dr. Arnie Klein, the man who according to the records, introduced in court, or at least his office, injected Michael Jackson with huge quantities of Demerol for botox and Restylane treatments, both of which I have had, and I didn`t get any Demerol. I didn`t get any mood-altering substances whatsoever.

In fact, you just get at the very most, some local anesthetic that they put into your mouth to numb your mouth just ling you would for a dental procedure. You took issue with something I said, and go at it.

GARO GHAZARIAN, ATTORNEY FOR DR. ARNIE KLEIN: I think you should name your show Dr. Jane show because Dr. Drew attack me on Thursday night last week and on Friday when we met, he corrected himself after further discussion and he agreed that probably not, in fact, not, that Michael Jackson was addicted to Demerol.

And if we listen to the expert, the defense expert, Jane, he in fact under cross-examination finally concedes, probably not, is the answer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He said based just on the records of Dr. Klein. Now, we don`t all live in vacuums and we know that Michael Jackson in 1993 said, that he had developed an addiction to pain killers and was seeking treatment. We also know that according to 12-step, once you have an addiction problem, you don`t get cured. You get a reprieve from it.

One Google search would have turned this up. Dr. Klein has known Michael Jackson decades. Debbie Rowe, Michael Jackson`s ex-wife worked in Dr. Klein`s office. I feel it is my obligation as a journalist to know why is Dr. Arnie Klein giving huge quantities of Demerol for botox and Restylane? The problem is, Garo, millions of Americans have had those procedures. Millions of Americans did not get Demerol. This isn`t just me saying this, I didn`t make this up. I want to play exactly what was said in court on Thursday last week. Let`s listen and then we will debate it some more.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On May 6th, we have 300 milligrams of Demerol provided. Is that correct?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And on May 5th, another 300 milligrams.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On May 4th, 300 milligrams were provided. Is that right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So in three days, Michael Jackson received 900 milligrams of Demerol.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. There you go. A lot of Demerol.

GHAZARIAN: He did not receive it from my client on May 6th. The records have to be looked at closely and one will know that it is not my client. My client was out of country on that day. But disregard -- let`s assume he got all of this from my client, which is not the case. You know, in order to be addicted to something, you have to have a frequency and doses on a continuous basis.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why was he giving him Demerol for --

GHAZARIAN: He was giving him -- he was giving him Demerol, if you remember Michael Jackson the way he --


GHAZARIAN: Let me finish please.


GHAZARIAN: If you remember what Michael Jackson looked like after some 100 plastic surgeries to his face, his entire face has been reconstructed with minimally invasive anesthetics by Dr. Klein. And until and unless you and I -- unless Dr. Drew, of course, he has the medical degree that you and I do not, can opine upon it, we are just speculating. Dr. Drew agreed with me on Friday on his show, and you can check your records.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Let`s leave Dr. Drew out for a second. I`m asking for your opinion -- I`m here to help --


GHAZARIAN: Well, I`m not a doctor. I`m not a doctor. But you know, what you said last Friday on your show Jane, was inaccurate. You said that within days of Michael Jackson`s death, days prior to his death --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s say a month, what`s the justification?

GHAZARIAN: It`s two months -- first of all it`s two months and I don`t have to justify it, you know because --



NATALIE POPOVICH, HOSTS "IVONNA CADAVER" ON "MACABRE THEATRE": Welcome to "Macabre Theater" guys, the only joint in town where you wish you could join the undead immediately. That can be arranged.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Happy Halloween and who better to celebrate Halloween with than Ivonna Cadaver. Check it out.


POPOVICH: Welcome to a deliciously dark evening of devilish debauchery. I`m your host, of course. I`m Ivonna Cadaver.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ivonna Cadaver is actually Natalie Popovich and she`s being called the new face of the undead. And so, Ivonna, thank you for joining me here; I know it`s a big step because you normally don`t come out in daylight.

POPOVICH: I normally don`t come out in daylight but I`m going to have a "fang-tastic" time with you Jane. I also have to get a blood sample.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know we goof around like this because we`re actually good friends. And we`re both in sobriety. I`m 16 years sober and Natalie is newly sober. And we`re going to talk about your struggles with sobriety in a second but let`s check out a little bit of "Macabre Theatre" on this Halloween.



I`ll tell you what I need.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, of course, we`re here in Los Angeles covering the Michael Jackson case, and a lot of issues about drugs and drug use and drug dependency have come up and, again, I`m sober, you`re sober.

Tell us about Hollywood. You`re deep in Hollywood. And you have struggled with sobriety. What`s the connection between Hollywood and addiction?

POPOVICH: There`s big pressures, big personalities, and there`s a lot of addiction in Hollywood because we have a lot of pressures on us to perform, be in front of the camera, be in front of our fans and unfortunately when the two come together you don`t have the coping mechanisms of being sober, it becomes very difficult.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you are sober now.

POPOVICH: I am. Happily sober - it`s a whole different experience. And I`m finally getting to the point where it`s becoming easier.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does it help you with your role as Ivonna Cadaver in "Macabre Theatre"?

POPOVICH: It does because you`re always ready to suit up. You go and get the job done. And it does become easier. And it`s like living in the moment instead of living in your head and being obsessed and self-obsessed and all these things that we do. It`s a lot easier to be able to be the fang-tastic ghoul that I need to be.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I know we have a clip of Michael Jackson from his fabulous, most ghoulish, ghoulish performance, the classic of all classics, "Thriller".

Let`s check it out for a second.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: What could be more perfect for Halloween and when we watch performances like "Thriller" we don`t realize how hard it is, how much artistry goes into it.

POPOVICH: Yes, there`s tons of artistry and that is an example of one of the best videos ever made, one of the best icons that there`s ever been and the tragedy that happened in Hollywood because of the addiction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. His family doesn`t like to say he`s an addict but certainly we`ve heard a lot of testimony about struggles with drugs and so many people do struggle. I`ve struggle to stay sober. You`ve struggled to stay sober. And we`re both sober right now. So that`s great.

More in a second.



POPOVICH: Welcome to another deliciously dark evening of devilish debauchery.

I`m your host of course -- Ivonna Cadaver.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m here with my dear friend, Natalie Popovich who plays "Ivonna Cadaver" on "Macabre Theatre". She`s called the new face of the undead. You`re going to be out partying but you`re partying sober tonight. What advice would you have for your fans?

POPOVICH: I would say for my fans instead of picking up a drink or picking up whatever you`re going to pick up, just pick up some blood. If you have lack of blood, come see me, I`ve got it for you guys. We`re going to have fun tonight. We`re going to be on streets of Hollywood, West Hollywood, Santa Monica, all over. But come see me because I have your blood instead of the other things that you don`t need.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In other words, you`re partying sober tonight.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Ivonna Cadaver, I know you don`t talk like this but I will. We are not in Transylvania but in Los Angeles. But I`m here with the new face of the undead and we`re having some fun.

Happy Halloween, guys.

"NANCY GRACE" is next.